I've posted before about in-law care-giving. Aged mother in law, lives in same town.
We are at the tail end of a visit from sister in law from several states away. Sister in law has been here for 3 weeks caring for her mother. A much welcome respite.
It had been discussed, prior to her arrival here on the scene, she would be talking it over with her mother, to try and get her mom to come up to her home, for a stay of maybe a few months.
This, in my opinion, is absolutely essential, as I am expecting twin grand-children, due in about 1 month (if they don't come sooner, as is the case a lot of times with multiples pregnancies). The expectant mother also lives locally here, and has a 4 year old daughter. I will be on that front, helping .. as much as is needed. And not on the front with mother in law and care-giving, and have made that as obvious and apparent as I know how to make it. It would be great if mother in law would agree to go to her daughter's home (several states away) for a period of a few months .. and allow me the latitude to put my energies where I want them to be, on my daughter who will have had a c-section .. and my grand-daughter (4 years old) and new twin babies.
Nothing doing. Mother in law has dug in her heels, and will not hear of it, going to stay with her daughter for any period of time.
What are her reasons?
In mother in law's defense ... her daughter ... I don't even know how to describe it. I will say that when her daughter comes here to visit, she all but breathes for her mother and if she could find a way to do that, she'd do that too. She is the most nervous nelly, never sit down - ever ... worry wart, do everything, all the time .. person that I've ever encountered.
A great example, as I was taking her to the airport yesterday for her departure, . I reached into the fridge to grab myself a bottled water and shut the fridge and turned to walk away, as I've done for all of my 50 plus years living on this earth .. and she said to me, "Oh make sure that fridge shut". WTH???? Like I don't know how to shut a fridge? That's just a small, very small slice of what she is ... how she is.
She is so very hyper-vigilant, seeing to every minute details down to it's finest most minuscule point, fine tooth comb, questioning every point along the way, "should we do thus and so, but maybe if we do thus and so, then such and such will happen, maybe we should do it thus and so .. but then so and so might happen, maybe we shouldn't do thus and so, but do "x" "y" and "z" instead, but if we don't do it that way then ..........", on and on and on and on it goes. And usually in hyper warp speed, as to every single friggin thing.
If her mother moans .. "what's wrong mother?, why did you moan, are you alright?".
Mother: "Yes, I'm fine, I was just sighing out loud".
Sister: "Why did you sigh? Are you hurting, are you sure you're alright, why are you sighing what's the matter?"
Mother: "For God's sake __________________, I was just sighing, .. calm down, I'm fine".
Sister: "Are you sure, .. because if something is wrong you need to tell me".
Mother: "Everything is fine, I'm fine".
Sister: "Are you sure, we did a lot yesterday, did we do too much, maybe we shouldn't of gone to two doctors in one day .. was that too much for you, are you too tired now, maybe we need to move those other doctor appointments so we won't have two in one day, is that too much for you, for one day .. is that why you were sighing .. what's wrong, are you sure you're alright".
Hopefully that kinda gives a little bit of a snapshot of what goes on when sister is in the ring directing things.
So in mother in law's defense.. I do get it, why she wouldn't be chomping at the bit to go to her daughter's home.
BUT ....
The only experience she has with her daughter, in the last years as mother in law has aged and been unable to go anywhere much, has been the daughter coming here, periodically, for periods of about 3 weeks at a stretch. When her daughter comes here, she moves heaven and earth for her mother and then some, and doesn't sit down, doesn't stop .. the WHOLE ENTIRE TIME.
Is there a possibility maybe (as I said to mother in law, when she expressed that isn't happening - talking to me - her going to her daughters .. ever) .. could it be possible that maybe if you would go to where she lives .. she'd be more busy managing her own life in that setting than your's and she would get out of your backside .. and not be as hyper-drive-vigilant as you experience in her, when she's here, could that be possible.
The daughter is retired, lives several states away. Does come here, generally, every few months .. and stays for a period of about 3 weeks at a stretch. I wish I could make a list of everything the daughter did when here this last time, but it would take up the whole character allotment:
You have quite successfully, it seems to be, at least begun an actual dialogue with MIL about what SHE wants. She DOESN'T"T want to go to doctors. I would take that as implicit approval of getting some healthcare provider to come to the home, at least once, to see if that level of service can be of use to her.
I suspect that the lack of oxygen to her brain is having an effect.
Remember in “Being Mortal, Medicine and What Matters In The End” there are the five questions that need to be asked so that doctors and families can honor a patients wishes for how they want to live out their lives? Here are the questions.
1. What is your understanding of where you are and of your illness?
2. Your fears or worries for the future
3. Your goals and priorities
4. What outcomes are unacceptable to you? What are you willing to sacrifice and not?
And later,
5. What would a good day look like?
Dr. Gawande says we may have to have this conversation several times and that people sometimes change their minds about their answers. He looks at anytime over 65 as bonus years and that we all need to consider these questions well before a crisis.
Perhaps these questions would be helpful to reflect on when you next talk with MIL.
You are doing a good job Dorker.
Here’s a link with more helpful information.
www.nextavenue.org/atul-gawandes-5-questions-ask-lifes-end/
I do happen to know that one of the ladies has begun a dialogue that would see her trying to open discussion on consideration of MIL going to her daughter's in IL to spend some time. I happen to know that is something she is pushing .. in conversation with MIL, only because she voluntarily shared that with me. I do not pry as to what's discussed, it's none of my business, and I'd like it to remain that way .. so as to built that rapport of trust .. "
I thought it was odd that they wanted to know from you what the issues were with MIL. So you must have told them to get her to consider going to SIL's (which of course is what you want most, as it would take the whole situation and move it to Illinois). I don't know why they didn't talk with H about her (being his mother), or why they didn't just dialogue with MIL as to what SHE wanted from them. So they aren't reporting back to you AT ALL?
As far as tomorrow's cancelled doctor appointment, don't you think SIL knows about it, and will find out from MIL that it was cancelled?
I have a question though as to participation in a visiting physician group .. and I guess they could help answer, need to call them. But obviously that would be the PCP that would then begin home visits .. and/or a PA or whatever, as to the care a PCP provides.
But she also sees a cardio (is supposed to) routinely. She also sees ortho doc (every 10 to 12 weeks for steroid knee injections), she also sees a neurologist .. I think maybe 2 or 3 x's a year .. and then the host of other physicians .. a dermo, a podiatrist, eye exams for vision but also for hystioplasmosis .. and I don't know what else, at the moment.
Don't believe there are going to be all those specialists that will do a visiting physician sorta thing. So she'd still have to be carted around to all those differing specialties, no?
And as to answering why the church ladies wanted my input, did they get input from DH.
The story goes about like this. They were aware .. everyone at church has an awareness of what we deal with, with regard to DH's mom ... as it has been the case from time to time, ... me more so than him actually .. that there have been events that we have missed .. and/or had to cancel out on, in lieu of going in the direction to the latest calamity in MIL's case. There is an awareness about what goes on in our world, just simply by virtue of the above description. To dial down on it even more, there have been women's things that I have scheduled to be a part of (our specific church is so small, and so few hands to do the things that need to be done) and I've been signed on to be a part of something.. only to have to cancel and go in the direction of MIL and issues on that front .. and so the lack of my presence, when it was something I signed on to assist with, .. sorely missed. So that awareness is there.
Just in conversation with differing women thru the years ... there has been question, .. .about MIL's situation .. about why she lives alone, about whether she has any help .. what kinda help .. what her situation will be going forward, etc etc. There has been discussion on that, ..
These two particular women began about a year ago, with the formation of the ministry they were forming, to help in these kinds of cases, .. a situation where you have someone particularly troubled, be that because they are ill and home bound, or any other of life's troubling issues that could use someone to minister to them ... and so they approached .. to see if MIL would be amiable to have them become a part of her world.
As we all know here, when that was first approached, about a year ago, there was flat out refusal .. and she wouldn't hear of it, "don't you send those church people this way, now I won't answer the door".
She finally did acquiesce to that, back before SIL left this last time, and so the process began to bring them into the fold.
These two specific women did talk to DH .. but DH I think provided what info he can .. and then deferred to me, as one who has been on the front lines. They asked to sit down with me, and get my take on things. In that setting they did ask me, does she ever entertain the notion of going to an AL .. and named some that are local .. nice ones they are familiar with. Of course, I answered that is off the table, entirely. They are aware, from conversation with me, that MIL has a daughter that lives in IL .. and the daughter comes periodically and when she does, she walks on water as to handling all things MIL ... and they wanted to know does the SIL entertain the notion of moving here, to help her mom. Of course that was answered that no .. the SIL's life is in IL and she has offered repeatedly to take MIL in .. and help her there, .. but MIL thus far refuses. As part of that conversation it was also approached as to the hurricanes and hunkering down/sheltering and that I have really pushed hard on that front that she doesn't need to be here at that time of year, local .. to weather that kinda thing and for us to try to be of help to her, .. and so that's how that conversation/dialogue all came together.
I do know, just because one of the women talks to me .. that she is kinda pushing that agenda .. and she does see in MIL .. someone that shouldn't be living alone any longer .. she has shared that with me. The other of these two women, has been out of town and not as participatory as we've gotten this off the ground and going. The one woman, L, .. has gotten a pretty clear depiction of MIL's situation just in the few times she's gone to visit her and thinks also that MIL shouldn't be living alone any longer, .. but she also .. having worked this kinda thing and with elderly through the years .. has an awareness that MIL is free to make that choice .. even though it's probably not in her best interest. I happen to know, only because she shared it with me, that she is pushing that specific issue, the hurricane time of year .. and staying with SIL .. away from this area .. and she is using a standpoint that maybe MIL should look at it, that she can be of help to her daughter, rather than MIL look at it from the prism that she is a burden .. if MIL will just look at it from the angle that it would help her daughter.
I told this woman, L, that MIL isn't able to anymore, do anything demonstrative to be of help .. she can't sort through drawers and dispose of things .. or paint .. or clean house or cook .. so that will be a hard sell. But maybe if she can sell that point in the frame of reference that SIL would then have less worry .. MIL at arm's length, rather than 1K miles away. So that's what is .. kinda on their radar .......
I don't ask what MIL's take is .. and what is said. She volunteered that MIL did seem to perk up and take interest when it was put in that frame of reference ..
And on the front of the Palliative Care, and missed cardio appt and so forth. I have no idea if SIL is aware of tomorrow's appt and the fact MIL has cancelled it. I don't discuss these things with SIL any longer.
In fact, I noted to DH that when I had MIL out and about the other day .. I noticed that her key fob isn't working to open the trunk of her car .. one can open it by clicking the switch from inside her car, but the key fob has a button on it, that one can push and should activate the trunk to open. It doesn't work.
I didn't note this to MIL ... nor have I ran the flare up on it, to SIL. This is quite on purpose. That would be one more thing on somebody's to do list .. and in the end, .. it's one of those things like pressure washing the driveway that isn't used. It's not that critical. I mentioned it to DH only because I don't want it to be seen that I somehow broke it .. I didn't. It just doesn't work. . Told him .. "I don't want SIL informed of this .. simply because she will run up flares in every direction that has to be seen to, and post haste". He agreed.
Also of note, yesterday when DH and I were there . she asked that I step out to her deck to water her geraniums that sit around the perimeter .. and if I would, pinch off the brown dead areas .. I dutifully stepped outside to begin that process, and DH joined me, to begin pinching off dead areas on each potted plant. He noted that her table, patio table .. it's broken . the plexi-glass ... it's cracked and broken. How'd that happen. DH presumes at some point that big heavy umbrella that sits in a hole in the middle of the table, likely got blown over in wind .. and when it did .. it broke the table .. but we don't know .. who knows. But that too, he cautioned, "don't tell SIL .. she'll have one of us hauling the damn thing outta here, to some glass place to see if they can retrofit the glass in the table .. to replace it .. hell mother never even uses this deck area, it's too dangerous for her, with the rotting wood and such .. just leave it alone, don't say anything".
So that .. just two examples of things that were SIL aware of .. she'd be sending up flares in every direction to get them seen to, and yesterday with urgency. That's how SIL is.
Mine and DH's approach .. MIL doesn't even use her car .. to be concerned with a key fob that isn't working to open her trunk. Who knows if she will get strong enough that one day she can hop in her car and drive it again .. presently .. no .. that isn't the case .. any time her car is driven at this point, it's because one of us is doing so.
The table out back that has cracked plexi glass .. and broken. She doesn't even go out there to her deck to enjoy sitting at that table and visiting with someone.
There is no urgency as far as DH and I are concerned, with those two issues. Were SIL aware .. oh absolutely both things would be on the radar and being addressed. I guarantee if SIL were here in town, the car would have already been to the dealership to find out what the problem is, is it the key fob is it the trunk, what is it, and the bill paid and problem rectified. She would've already been after DH to come haul this table to a glass shop to get it looked at as to replacement of plexi glass ..
So no .. I don't know whether SIL is aware there is a cardio appt tomorrow that has been cancelled.
Did MIL saying that, .. shoot up flares in DH's direction that he thought it worthy of contacting his sister and/or admonishing his mom .. no . not one bit. Nothing was said. I won't be notifying his sister. If MIL does . that's between the two of them what transpires behind it.
In fact, it was interesting talking to DH this morning on the fact that his mom cancelled that cardio appt, and my take on it, that she really should be going to said appt .. that she needs to be followed as to her CHF .. and that it could be that it's worsening and that in some cases, .. lack of oxygen to organs .. can be detrimental .. as a result of worsening CHF, that maybe she will be at the point, if not now, at some point, that she'd need oxygen .. might explain why she's so tired/fatigued at doing absolutely nothing.
His take on it, (which I have to remember, he hasn't gone to one single doc appt with his mom .. as opposed to me, who has been to too many to count) .. "She doens't want to extend her life Dorker .. why would she go to the doc .. and have them give her one more piece of something that will extend her life and she's not gonna want to be someone walking around with oxygen .. that's not something she'll agree to, .. she's ready to go to that cloud in the sky".
My response to that with DH: "No . but it has to do with the quality of what life she does have .. if she's going to get stronger, like she says she wants to do .. then part of that is going to be doing the things she needs to do to get stronger, .. if she doesn't want to, that's fine too .. if she wants to go on and do the things she needs to do .. to take her to her final demise .. then Hospice maybe".
Him: "I don't think she's far enough gone that Hospice is something that needs to be brought up".
Me: "Well .. it's a dichotomy DH ... I mean on the one hand she talks of wanting to get stronger and do the things she enjoys in life, .. you hear her talking .. she wants to get to where she can throw her walker away and her cane and take her dog for walks ..
Him: "She isn't gonna get there, she doesn't need to be out walking her dog .. she has balance issues, she's a fall risk .. even if she could get strong enough that she isn't too fatigued to walk her dog .. she still doesn't need to be out walking her dog, she has balance issues and she'll fall".
Me: "well .. it's like, what does she want ..???....does she want to get stronger, .. well maybe part of that, if not now .. then at some point, is going to include some 02 .. as part of her existence, so that her brain .. organs are oxygenated more appropriately as her CHF grows worse .. but we won't know that if she isn't going routinely to her cardio doc".
Him: "She's not gonna want any part of that .. let her be .. if she doesn't wanna go to the cardio doc then let her be".
I dropped it. I'm talking to someone that maybe doesn't understand the finer points I'm trying to make here, as to CHF .. and how that all works. He has a fly-over understanding of it all, his dad had CHF .. but died of other complications from a botched colonoscopy .. before the CHF took hold and he saw the end results of same. He has a "fly over" understanding of it, not the finer points .. having never been to a single doc appt.
Does that frustrate me from the respect, "THIS IS YOUR MOTHER ............. HOW IS IT THAT I HAVE A CLEARER understanding of all this than you do, or even care to".
Absolutely.
But again, loose ends .. that will remain unspoken to.
I can't MAKE Him take her to doc appts .. and "care" and participate and understand the goings on. If he doesn't care to be a part of that scene .. and he hasn't .. thru the years .. it's not gonna change by my harping at him.
I dropped it. Changed the subject.
I'm not going to call MIL this morning, "now listen .. I really do think you need to see to that cardio appt", that puts me front and center into the situation that I have tried to set some boundaries around my involvement.
Would it be beneficial she go .. absolutely it would. But I can't control it .. and so much about it all, I can't control.
I do know having been with her, though it's been a long time that I've accompanied her to these kinds of visits .. when they'd do that check on her finger as to her oxygen level, it was always like 98 or something. But .. it's been a long while since I've been part of that scene. Not something I wish to re-enter.
DH is right about one aspect. I could load her up tomorrow, take her to said appt and if they found, "oh dear, well yes we see .. what we need to do now is to get you set up with some oxygen .. let's get that going .. and we'll have someone come to your house".
She would refuse it............. take that and put it in your pipe and smoke it. He's right, she'd refuse.
And if asked why, she'd say things like, "I'm just ready to go .. these docs they wanna do all these things to prolong your life that's what they're about .. they're there to do things to pro long your life .. I don't want to pro long my life ..".
I could argue, and I would, .. "not necessarily ... I mean in this instance, it's about the quality of what life you have .. don't you wanna do something that will improve the quality of the life you do have".
It would go nowhere, "I'm not hauling an oxygen cylinder around with me everywhere, I'm not going to do it".
But MIL .. that's part of the reason you are so very fatigued .. that you can't even get out of bed and enjoy much of any function daily .. if you would allow that, you might find that you'd feel better ..
It would go nowhere. He's right, she wouldn't be participatory in that.
Very much talks about of both sides of her mouth. Confusion due to lack of oxygen to her brain .. possible, yes. Addressing it ... not gonna be as easy.
One side of her mouth, she wants to get stronger and throw the walker and cane in the trash and do the things she enjoys. The other side of her mouth, she's ready to go to that big cloud in the sky.
Who knows.
I'm going to limit my involvement as has been the case .. and on my Thursday visits .. I will continue to push on the Palliative/Hospice/Visiting physicians angles and see where it goes .. if anywhere. And then walk away and return the next Thursday .. that's gonna be my approach.
Does that still leave a compromised 88 yo woman at loose ends as to need? Yes it does.
But do I wish to step into this landmine and find myself trying to manage all things MIL. Absolutely not. It's impossible to do .. absent her willingness to cooperate ..
So you talk of .. "well the PT would help to strengthen you" .. and on that line of thought and it's met with "I'm not able to do that, I'm not going to do that".
Like I said, "magical thinking". Short of some fairy that comes and sprinkles wonder dust .. and restores youth and vitality ....
That's not gonna happen.
What she needs is someone to spend time with her .. and really really talk in earnest .. and hold her feet to the fire .. and not let her divert .. and change the subject .. and dial down on .. the angle/direction she wishes to go in.
"MIL do you want to throw in the towel .. there means by which to do that .. is that where you are ... ???.....would you like to talk about doing that and how that might work .. would you like that we get someone to come visit you to talk about EOL discussion?", and hold her feet to the fire and not let her then divert to "I just want to enjoy my life .. and get to the point I'm strong enough to do the things I want to do, I want to take my little doggie for walks"
WHICH IS PRECISELY WHAT HAPPENS.
So that person, sitting with her, and talking, .. "Well okay MIL .. I hear you say you want to get stronger and do those things, .. what would you like to do to get there ... what do you think would help to get there".
Her answer, "Oh I know they say that I need that Physical Therapy .. and I'm just not going to do that .. I'm just not able to do that ... I get so tired .. I just can't even get dressed most days .. I'm just not able to do it and I'm not going to".
Round and round and round it goes.
Why not just let her?
The EOL will come in its own good time whether she wishes to discuss it or not.
Hadn't you better tell your sons the good news, BSG?
I dream of elegant living in a senior apartment. It will be modern, warm, triple-glazed, minimally furnished and with state of the art appliances and sound system so that I can catch up on my library of Bach variations. There will be communal gardens, so on warm afternoons I shall take my trug and secateurs and deadhead the roses properly, while the handsome young (fifty-ish) gardeners mow the lawns and mulch the herbaceous perennials, consulting me on finer points...
Mm. Not sure who this woman I'm thinking of is but it sure as heck isn't me. You're right, Boot, I'll be tottering around in stacks of old newspapers saying "untidy? What's untidy about it?"
I am vaguely remembering a conversation between your MIL and DH. Months ago in a hospital room. DH tried to insist MIL shouldn’t live alone anymore. It got nasty! MIL all but threw DH out of the room. Uggghhh.
AND MIL has said her own daughter drives her NUTZ. Believe this was on Dorker porch or in sunroom, maybe after the storm.
As sad as it is Dorker, your MIL, May view you as the voice of reason. You may be the only one she trusts to offer up her options. I don’t think her daughter or son has a reasonable grip or knowledgeable sense of her medical condition and I think MIL knows this.
Geez, good look in the coming days with your own frustration and trying to remain calm with Old Gal’s ordeal.
I agree she is a scrapper. Now is she talking out both sides of her mouth, sending mixed messages on purposes to keep everyone off balance or is she slipping cognitively?
You cannot force her. I's just ask her "DO you want to live or die?" None of this dreamy talk about clouds coming down, just the facts. I have no idea why her cognition seems to have gotten so much worse, could def be the lack of O2, but it could also be dementia settling in for a nice visit. Probably it's just MIL being MIL.
Sad she won't see the Cardio Dr, that ?? could have been answered. Now it won't be addressed until SIL runs it up the flagpole and comes down there and forces MIL to see the dr....and then, why? She won't be compliant anyway.
Sorry for the wasted trip--at least you marked the day with her. That's what she wants. Now if you'd only do that EVERYDAY :)
Hang in there. These things have a way of working out, for good or bad, without our interference. She's pretty much acting exactly the way you predicted she would. And for that, I am sorry.
I think MIL has made it pretty clear that she wants an express trip to that cloud in the sky...
Good point. MIL couldn't wait to get Dorker stepping and fetching! I'm glad H went out there to help her. Of course, there's really no surprise there, as we know how much he likes to spend time with his mother.
If son and daughter don't want to finance such a lifestyle it aint gonna happen just as CM probably wont be advising young 50ish gardeners how to dead head the roses.
The reality is that if we can't afford luxury NHs we will all end up in double rooms sharing a room with someone we would rather not know. In multiple stays in double rooms I have only had a room mate I enjoyed.
Speaking for myself I know what I "should" do but that does not make me want to do it. It is only when the current situation becomes untenable that I agree to what should have been done and would have been easier two years ago.
Dorker knows what should and could have happened so now she is taking the only route possible for her which is to impose boundaries and limit contact. She continues to post here in great detail which tells me she is still bothered by the whole situation and for some reason can't just just it go.
Is it guilt, concern for MIL or not to let DH own, is she afraid of offending the church ladies. She wants to spend time with the grandbabies and help DD out which of course is wonderful but that family will do just fine with limited time and DD might even prefer that.
Has Dorker sought professional help with her decisions? I don't know the answer to that and it is none of my business.
Are we just a sounding board for Dorker's frustrations rather than a scource for practical advise? Don't know the answer to that. it that is the case we can accpt it as just an outlet for frustration.
When I post or rather whine about my frustration with hubby for turning the house into a hazard course where I am likely to trip with my walker everytime I need to visit the bathroom. My new PCP suggested I start taking meds for osteoporosis so I withstand the falls better. Well I would rather at this time take my chances with the falls than risk the side effects of those drugs as I just don't trust them.
We all have to make choices in our lives, MIL had made hers as has Dorker so Dorker needs to stick to them and just go about her own life and if disaster strikes decide if and how much she is prepared to do. After all SIL has already offered MIL a place in her home which would be far nicer than a NH which she can't afford anyway. I totally understand why MIL does not want to move from Florida to Illinois.
Mil is fully aware of her options and the upsides and downsides of any decisions she makes.
Someone once said to me that you go on doing what you are doing till the pian of what you are doing becomes greater than the pain of what you have to do.
None are Dorker’s ally. Walk away means walk out, don’t come back and the devil can take this ‘family’. They’re ALL liars.
Now I’m the bad guy.
Presumably, MIL's impending medical crisis will result in long term placement in a nursing home, Medicaid pending. At that time H and SIL will have to straighten out all that paperwork.
Yes, I think Dorker is highly bothered by the whole situation. It is good of her to even go to MIL's one morning/week.
I believe Dorker does see a therapist. It would be interesting to read what that person said about Dorker's situation. Dorker?
What does the therapist provide as to "just let it go"? His words he has imparted is that it's going to be a difficult prospect to "just let it go" when it's something you are still engaged in .. and the best approach is to find another outlet .. do what gives me pleasure where possible .. the grands .. my church work, reading, listening to music, my own family, etc etc. And I do so where possible, indeed.
And on another note, someone here had posted that it sounds as if the Stephens Ministry folks have maybe overstepped their boundaries in any encouragement that MIL go to IL to stay with daughter. I gave here a brief cliff notes version of what they provide. There is more to what their mission is, than what was described here, in answer to how it is they could be approaching that topic, unless it was at my behest they work that agenda. I was answering to that specific query. Yes, they know that to be an issue, they also know it to be an issue, her isolation and their mission is to provide for her an outlet of sorts .. socially. To help her in spiritual matters if that's something she wishes .. to be an outlet for her .. as to socialization .. to help her with small errands, if she wishes. There is indeed more to what they do and provide, than simply an agenda to push her into her daughter's home for refuge in hurricane season.
At one time, when those ladies approached DH and myself initially .. let's remember, at that time, there was a setting that MIL was refusing any and all outside help of any sort. She forbid any involvement by neighbors .. or else-wise. Isolating. At that time, .. her only outlet was me, and when DH could get by there for Mr. Fixxit stuff. And her g'kids .. and we've already established OD doesn't go there much .. maybe 3 x's in a year. DD at that time, .. this time last year .. was weathering a complicated multiples pregnancy and rarely saw her g'ma .. and YD .. also busy with her own life and work. So MIL's only outlet .. at that time .. was me and DH, and SIL when she'd breeze into town.
The Stephens Ministry they started, .. and them aware of the situation with one of their church servants (DH) and his mom, they offered, at that time, as they were launching the Stephens Ministry at our church .. offered to be of service to that setting, and it was refused.
Fast forward a year later and she has agreed to allow them to be a part of her world. They have been there, .. since this got off the ground, maybe 3 x's .. one or the other of the two.
MIL has agreed to allow Flighty C, next door (she formerly would not hear of it) to take her to get groceries. That hasn't yet come to fruition. Who knows if it will.
She has agreed to allowing the MOW drivers .. and approached them on same .. to do small errands if they will. That too, yet to be seen as to whether it will pan out. Who knows.
Fast forward a year later, .. and she has agreed to allow the above, . and DD is no longer dealing with a complicated pregnancy but has twin babies that keep her pretty busy as well as her 4 yo. So she can't be there a whole lot to help and to visit .. she does go . she does call MIL .. and talk with her on the phone, as she's able to. OD .. not so much. OD has seen MIL one time in the last several months, that I'm aware of. I know she does call her, but that too, not with a lot of frequency. OD works six days a week and is very proprietary as to her time off, which is one day per week. So be it. YD .. she has been there to help with washing the dog, .. she took pup to vet last week .. and each visit she stays a while, to chit chat.
It does please me that the g'kids are involved to the extent they are. In OD's case and her lack of engagement .. I do understand her, and I know her makeup well, .. she isn't at all a nurturing sort and one to sit around with someone wringing their hands .. just not how she's made, and she doesn't have the time or inclination for such .. and as such, she doesn't go around much. I don't fault any of them, nor do I hold their feet to the fire on what they should or shouldn't do. They are all adults .. what they do is on them ..
Why do I go there? Someone asked why don't I just wash my hands of it all completely and walk away .. and never go there. I go there because I could never turn a complete blind eye to a situation that is needy. I don't do that in any aspect of my life. There is a neighbor down the street and the young nephew taking care of the elderly man with Parkinson's .. I send meals to them on occasion .. simply because I know that's not something they usually get. I do the same with those who are needy in our church and help out there, where there is "need". Also of note, any time that I make a meal here that I think might be something that MIl would enjoy .. I will .. generally .. say out loud that if anyone would like to take a plate to MIL .. there's plenty. DD has chosen to do so in recent weeks .. no one else has taken that task on. Even though there has been mention of same, more than once. Do I do so? No. I go there on Thursdays .. not going to slide down that slippery slope .. again. I guard what I do .. with a vengeance. Some can fault me with that, and that's okay with me. I do what I am able to. I go there, to answer why I even do it .. because I know that she "needs". She "needs" help to get to a doc appt., happens to be on a Thursday . fine by me, that's what we'll do. She happens to need her deck swept off, or her garage floor, fine by me, I'll do it. She happens to need a few things from the grocery store, not a problem, I'll go get the things you need. She happens to need her bed sheets changed, not a problem .. I'll do it. She "needs". Thus, I go .. and do what I can .. and with limits.
One of the posters here mentioned remembering that MIL doesn't want to go to an AL or NH .. but she also find in her own daughter, that her daughter drives her up a tree. Very true. Her daughter does drive her nuts.
So what should become of the situation? She doesn't want to go to an AL .. or a NH .. and going to her daughter's home .. not something she likes to entertain either.
So she stays put in her home, until some major calamity occurs .. more than likely. She wouldn't be the first .. won't be the last.
But in between here and there ... as to all the need that crops up . some of it want and whim .. some of it genuine need. Therein lies the issue doesn't it?
Someone mentioned here at to MIL talking out of both sides of her mouth .. that it's a question of cognitive decline or is she manipulating and so forth. I don't see her as malicious enough to do that. She really is not an unkind person. She can be .. as any of us can. But .. all in all, she is not unkind ..
Selfish .. not much self awareness .. absolutely. But malicious. No, I don't see that. That she'd be talking out of both sides of her mouth to play one end against the other, that's not what I see in her, and how I would define her.
She can be mean .. I guess we all could be given the right situation. I know when we were there yesterday she has been lamenting the fact that YD took poochy to the vet Monday last week, and in that setting, for whatever the reason, YD wasn't given any paperwork as to what was done and why and the findings. YD left there with the explanation of an ear infection and scripts to go fill and what to look for and so forth, provided audibly the same, to MIL when she arrived with poochy in hand.
Since that time, MIL has put in a call to the vet to ask that it be mailed to her, written report as to vet visit, for her review. It never came. She called there again on Friday having not rec'd it, and spoke with the guy she'd requested this of previously and he explained he'd not gotten to it, but would do so, at which time she told him (this she relays to me) that she would, if she could get out, come there and wring his neck .. that it's awful to not be able to get out and about and do the things you want to do, and one of those is to get a simple written report of what was done at the vet's office and that she is dependent upon them .. having told her they'd do so, and only to find out they failed to see it through, that she'd wring his neck if she could get there to do it.
She can be mean . indeed.
But can't we all.
In general though, I don't think of her as malicious and talking out of both sides of her mouth so as to create some scenario to keep people off balance.
I do the best I can to not let it all get to me
I didn't know what to offer at that point, as to whether a Living Will suffices for that issue.
Also, FWIW ........ just of note, on the point that her daughter drives her up a tree. Her daughter is one who will dial down on and debate and hash and rehash every finite thing with a deference to points that one cannot even imagine, that is in part what drives MIL up a tree.
Yesterday apparently, SIL having gotten wind, in her phone call to wish her Mother Happy Mother's day that DH was going to be heading that way with some steamed shrimp for her, her request. SIL then began to question, "should you be eating that, I just don't know that it's good for you to eat that, maybe you should just have some simple grilled fish and maybe a plain baked potato .. it worries me that you'd eat steamed shrimp, you know they are so high in cholesterol and your cholesterol numbers were high last time, I don't think that's something you should eat. Sounds like MIL told her daughter, basically, where to step off.
Later in the evening when I was at home, I got a thank you text from SIL as to the portions taken to MIL as to steamed shrimp and how much her mom had apparently enjoyed it (and she did) and a further thank you for the other day having taken MIL to a lunch out that she also thoroughly enjoyed.
I answered that (maybe should've kept it at a simple "you're welcome" and responded no further). But I answered that with the fact that she really "can" and "does" eat well .. I've seen it. She may have no appetite for the MOW's . but she "can and does" pack it away if it's something she wants/likes.
Added on to that, "I know that DD had mentioned to you, when you queried about getting her something other than the mundane boring MOW's .. the services that deliver meals .. that's really something that she could benefit from .. she "will eat" if it's something she wants .. I've seen it.
SIL then answered that she had downloaded an app on her phone just to review herself what might be available in MIL's area .. and that she found it to be kinda costly .. in that there is a minimum one can order dollar-wise .. as well as a delivery charge, and then of course, it looked as though maybe there is a possible markup over what one might pay visiting said restaurant as opposed to ordering it for delivery and then of course, expectation as to tip to the driver.
I answered that to SIL .. yea, .. it's not something that can be done daily as with all of us, we'd find it too expensive to eat out every day .. all of us .. but .. for a difference, from the boring Mundane MOW's .. every once in a while ..
I don't know where that goes .. if anywhere. Just wanted it put in her ear . (eyes) that she, the one who was attempting prompt from afar as to getting her mom something different to eat, that wasn't MOW related .. that has been attended to, in fact, 2 x's in a week .. by me and/or DH and me. And that there ARE OPTIONS that can be done .. yes, more costly .. but it's not impossible.
She'd better hope it will be very obvious to any EMTs that are called, then, or she WILL be resuscitated. EMTs aren't going to go through her house looking for DNR paperwork.
Does MIL want her bills paid when she's in the hospital?
Does she want her children, or the State of Florida, making decisions about her care?
Those seem like two good reasons to have a POA and Healthcare proxy.
My mom kept her DNR/DNI, a current list of her medications, and our phone numbers taped to the inside of her front door. IN CASE OF EMERGENCY was written across the envelope.
It really helps to discuss with others who are in the same situation.
I learn so much from you and I send my Prayers.
I get a billing form from the vet, with line items for services performed.
Maybe when you're old and cranky and have nothing better to do, this kinda thing can really get your goat.
Apparently there is no POA. I do know her daughter is on all of her accounts, .. and she's on several of her bills .. just as a means of being able to "talk" with companies she deals with on behalf of MIL at times.
Have a dumb question. If a Living Will, .. if that's tantamount to what's needed in the event of medical direction .. and a POA the same. How does EMS personnel arriving on the scene, and finding someone unconcious . how do they even know there is the existence of a POA or Living Will .. and not do anything to intubate or resuscitate?
No exposure to this issue ... I'm just envisioning that she pushes her life alert button as she's going down for some horrid fall (who knows) and it knocks her unconscious .. and EMS arrives .. they find an elderly lady unconscious on the floor .. no one there to provide any direction. Seems to me they're going to do whatever they have to, to rescue this person .. and the existence of any POA ... or Living Will, .. usually not evident as they enter the dwelling .. they're going to do what they have to do.
How does one stop that? Or .. is being unconscious quite different than life saving measures, .. maybe a stupid question.
In later years, she had a medic alert bracelet with dnr/Dni on it.
There are no stupid questions, Dorker. In my experience, it's smart people who ask questions. Stupid people assume they know all the answers.
About the life alert button -- does she have to push it, or is it one of the ones that will detect a difference in position and activate it automatically, say if the person is unconscious?
I think SIL realizes that she can't or won't push it, which is why she calls 4 times a day.