I've posted before about in-law care-giving. Aged mother in law, lives in same town.
We are at the tail end of a visit from sister in law from several states away. Sister in law has been here for 3 weeks caring for her mother. A much welcome respite.
It had been discussed, prior to her arrival here on the scene, she would be talking it over with her mother, to try and get her mom to come up to her home, for a stay of maybe a few months.
This, in my opinion, is absolutely essential, as I am expecting twin grand-children, due in about 1 month (if they don't come sooner, as is the case a lot of times with multiples pregnancies). The expectant mother also lives locally here, and has a 4 year old daughter. I will be on that front, helping .. as much as is needed. And not on the front with mother in law and care-giving, and have made that as obvious and apparent as I know how to make it. It would be great if mother in law would agree to go to her daughter's home (several states away) for a period of a few months .. and allow me the latitude to put my energies where I want them to be, on my daughter who will have had a c-section .. and my grand-daughter (4 years old) and new twin babies.
Nothing doing. Mother in law has dug in her heels, and will not hear of it, going to stay with her daughter for any period of time.
What are her reasons?
In mother in law's defense ... her daughter ... I don't even know how to describe it. I will say that when her daughter comes here to visit, she all but breathes for her mother and if she could find a way to do that, she'd do that too. She is the most nervous nelly, never sit down - ever ... worry wart, do everything, all the time .. person that I've ever encountered.
A great example, as I was taking her to the airport yesterday for her departure, . I reached into the fridge to grab myself a bottled water and shut the fridge and turned to walk away, as I've done for all of my 50 plus years living on this earth .. and she said to me, "Oh make sure that fridge shut". WTH???? Like I don't know how to shut a fridge? That's just a small, very small slice of what she is ... how she is.
She is so very hyper-vigilant, seeing to every minute details down to it's finest most minuscule point, fine tooth comb, questioning every point along the way, "should we do thus and so, but maybe if we do thus and so, then such and such will happen, maybe we should do it thus and so .. but then so and so might happen, maybe we shouldn't do thus and so, but do "x" "y" and "z" instead, but if we don't do it that way then ..........", on and on and on and on it goes. And usually in hyper warp speed, as to every single friggin thing.
If her mother moans .. "what's wrong mother?, why did you moan, are you alright?".
Mother: "Yes, I'm fine, I was just sighing out loud".
Sister: "Why did you sigh? Are you hurting, are you sure you're alright, why are you sighing what's the matter?"
Mother: "For God's sake __________________, I was just sighing, .. calm down, I'm fine".
Sister: "Are you sure, .. because if something is wrong you need to tell me".
Mother: "Everything is fine, I'm fine".
Sister: "Are you sure, we did a lot yesterday, did we do too much, maybe we shouldn't of gone to two doctors in one day .. was that too much for you, are you too tired now, maybe we need to move those other doctor appointments so we won't have two in one day, is that too much for you, for one day .. is that why you were sighing .. what's wrong, are you sure you're alright".
Hopefully that kinda gives a little bit of a snapshot of what goes on when sister is in the ring directing things.
So in mother in law's defense.. I do get it, why she wouldn't be chomping at the bit to go to her daughter's home.
BUT ....
The only experience she has with her daughter, in the last years as mother in law has aged and been unable to go anywhere much, has been the daughter coming here, periodically, for periods of about 3 weeks at a stretch. When her daughter comes here, she moves heaven and earth for her mother and then some, and doesn't sit down, doesn't stop .. the WHOLE ENTIRE TIME.
Is there a possibility maybe (as I said to mother in law, when she expressed that isn't happening - talking to me - her going to her daughters .. ever) .. could it be possible that maybe if you would go to where she lives .. she'd be more busy managing her own life in that setting than your's and she would get out of your backside .. and not be as hyper-drive-vigilant as you experience in her, when she's here, could that be possible.
The daughter is retired, lives several states away. Does come here, generally, every few months .. and stays for a period of about 3 weeks at a stretch. I wish I could make a list of everything the daughter did when here this last time, but it would take up the whole character allotment:
Your DH *is* "just saying no" - there's his boundary again, rearing it's ugly head, and you don't even see it. He's saying, if he wants to go talk to his mama, he will go talk to his mama, but he does not need someone nagging him to go talk to his mama. He's got enough of that from .... mama!
This all came about because SIL had it all orchestrated from her end, .. her mom in need of a haircut. SIL ... her plan (she is completely damn clueless) .. that on the Thursday I go to assist MIL, ... great time for DD to show up .. babies in tow .. that way MIL gets a visit from the babies .. but then after the haircut .. then we can all load up into cars and go to lunch at that favorite chicken salad place.
SIL needs to get a damn clue.
First off, ... it's a task in and of itself to get MIL dressed to go any damn where, .. at all. SIL knows this, she's here with her from time to time. But somehow she thought the above a viable plan. Not only that, to get MIL ready to then get in the car and go anywhere, much less out of the car and into the restaurant and seated. Now add to that, .. 2 one year olds ....... and get them .. into the restaurant. One year olds not known for being patient/quiet little patrons in a restaurant.
Not at all practical, in the least. SIL consistently has shown she fails to take into consideration what works for all, .. to her, it's only about what her mom's wants/needs are, always.
Her mom would've in the above scenario .. gotten:
Her haircut
a visit with babies she rarely sees
an outing to a favorite restaurant
Dorker's presence to assist
Dorker's step n fetch Thursday
Dorker watching kids so that MIL can have the above met
SIL, she can be counted on, always, .. to discard what might be practical for everyone else, and just look at getting this end of the crowd to steppin and fetchin.
It was DD that rerouted the whole thing, not wanting to .. (she didn't wanna do any of it, I suppose FOG had her step to the need). DD then rerouting it all, to .. "not taking these kids and trying to load MIL up and go to a restaurant .. don't want MIL at my house to do all this, .. have mom bring her here (which was SIL's orchestration) .. my house is too small, and at times too messy for even my taste, but certainly for MIL's tastes and she's too old and has no damn filter and will run her mouth and I have little patience for it .. I'd snap on her, .. so no ... I don't want this all at my house, we'll do this at MIL's house, .. I'll bring babies and come to her, .. and mom (Dorker) can run after the babies while I cut MIL's hair .. and I'll stop on my way there, to pick up this chicken salad she so badly wants .. I'll grab that before I come there to MIL's' .. but wait .. I can't afford to pay for all that for everybody ... I'll ask mom to pay for it ..
When DD arrived on the scene there I had already run out to the grocery for MIL .. on my Thursday visit, .. as well as gassed up her car for her (last time I was with her, we needed to accomplish that, but didn't pass a convenient gas station, so that never got seen to).
DD then shows up .. two high chairs with her, .. two babies .. a 4 yo .. bags of food she'd picked up .. and the lunch commenced. Complete with one of the twins, with a fever ..mysteriously.
MIL did inquire, who paid for it .. and when I said that I did, she asked to write me a check to reimburse me for all of it, and I declined. My thoughts .. she shouldn't have to pay to feed "all" of us. Herself, yes .. maybe ... maybe even me .. or DD .. for her's or my service to all this .. but by that point ... the confusion and chaos of the scene .. I just declined to accept reimbursement from MIL. That was that.
But this all came about because SIL got it all figured out (she thought) on her end, how to have her mom's needs met, without consequenc eof how it works for "all", so typical of her ..
Not unlike when SIL was in our ear, .. mostly mine (her brother not very responsive to his sister) .. about a chest xray her mom was to have done .. when the bottom fell out here, as to storm damage, power loss, .. etc .. and most places closed .. and should we take MIL and just see if they're there, for that scheduled appt., maybe it's just the phones that are down .. maybe they are still there operating .. maybe if one of us could run by and check on that, she really does need to get that chest xray ... meanwhile, MIL on this end, .. dismissive of any need to go any damn where, for chest xray or any other need .. but SIL harping on that and running it up the flagpole several times a day, .. as the appt approached and no one answering phones at the doc office ..
Not unlike, .. SIL harping at the fact there had been power loss everywhere here, so someone needs to get out to MIL's before she's taken home and empty her fridge of any perishables .. I mean afterall, MIL will eat it, .. she won't concern herself with such .. she'll eat eggs that sat in her fridge with no refrigeration for 3 or 4 days . mayo ... milk .. she'll eat it, somebody needs to get that done. Nevermind .. taking her home was not imminent in that time frame, her home, nor ours any power .. at that point in time. BUT that didn't stop SIL from afar, with all her worriation and running that need up and down the flagpole repeatedly.
Not unlike, when I finally did, recruit YD and DH to go on out there, .. go empty out her fridge and freezer of anything that might be spoiled considering there's been no refrigeration (no power out there, hot/dark) .. sent them on out there.
Told SIL this .. from afar .. to asuade that off my damn list of her "wants" from that corner, only to be met with from SIL: "Oh you guys probably should take her with you, .. that way if she needs anything .. like more clothes or something for her dog, .. she can get it".
It was at that point I snapped on SIL and told her, "how bout you think of someone besides your mother in all this .. NO we have not taken MIL back out there ............ and won't be, until the power is restored ...... if she needs anything from there, I'll ask DH to retrieve it .. we're all just doing the best we can here to manage all this and I don't need you putting add'l demands on it all".
She is famous for thinking only of her mom's needs .. wants .. and to hell w/what works for anyone else and their schedule/demands.
As for yesterday's dog food caper. MIL was left with the impression someone will see to it in the next few days ... and get it to her. In the meanwhile, what she didn't know was that I did add that to my list of "to do's" yesterday, at least retrieving it .. and getting it here on site .. for what I presume will be an imminent visit from DH to his mom to hear her "thoughts" she has summoned him to come listen to. MIL not aware I'd done that ... in the end, we find out, .. she put in a call to church lady ... have church lady get it .. and bring it on Monday. Find this out when MIL called here last night, pastor and wife here for dinner, phone rings, it's MIL .. DH answers it, "I told Dorker that I need one of you to pick up the dog food, but don't worry with it, .. I called the church lady and she'll get it for me on Monday". To which DH responded to his mom that Dorker already picked it up and that he'll get it out there to her, and dispensed with her phone call to return to our dinner guests.
SIL . the enabler of all enablers, .. she should be the chairperson of the Enabler Club ... she will try to .. put on the hat of tamping down any discord and get her mom to mind her p's and q's and not talk to her husband "that way", .. she'll try that .. over and over, .. with repeated polite reminders at MIL snapping at her husband.
Failing at that .. and MIL still with tears/pleas of "I can't do this, I can't be in the presence of all this, .. I just can't do this".
SIL will ... yes .... get plane tickets and deposit her mom back here in FL.
I have no doubt in my mind the above could be a very very real probability.
What is it that's so bad about SIL's husband that it's just not tenable to her.
Just the fact that he breathes I suppose, that he draws oxygen like any other living being.
She would however, define it as ............ the fact that SIL has to do him like you would a child ... watching poor poor SIL (SIL who doesn't mind, at all, the life she's been handed) ... watching poor poor SIL .. as she directs him around, .. time to go get dressed hubby, remember you have an 11 AM doc appt today .. oh and put on that shirt that I laid out for you, .. the one with blue stripes and those blue slacks that are in the corner, oh and those sneakers ... those gray ones .. oh and . on your way back, stop at Walgreens and get x, y and z .. and oh tell the doc about __________________ and _________________ they may need to look at changing your meds, do you need me to go with you hubby ....
Or
Per se, .. MIL and she maybe headed out for something, "Dear hubby please, while we're gone take out that kitchen garbage .. empty that and put a clean bag in the can .. and oh if you would go ahead and empty the dishwasher for me, and load those breakfast dishes .. oh and .. don't forget you have to go to so and so this afternoon .. but we'll be back before then .. ".
Meanwhile .. hubby of SIL's he says little to nothing .. ever .. just not real communicative. One can talk to him, ask him questions, he'll respond .. he just isn't a chatty kathy sort .. far from it, never has been in all these years.
The fact that ... in MIL's view .. Poor poor SIL .. has been relegated this life of looking after her life partner/husband .. as if he's a child .. that she has to direct his every move .. tell him when to go brush his teeth, when to take a shower, when to get dressed, what to wear .. what to do to tidy up .. he doesn't see it for himself and just do it, has to be told, just like a child. Poor poor SIL .. she wouldn't know what to do if she was married to someone that actually gets dressed on their own in something suitable .. and takes a shower and brushes their teeth . when they damn well feel like it, at a suitable time of day and remembers their own doc appt and concerns thereof that need to be mentioned ..
But SIL .. she is a person who, if she didn't have her husband to chase after with all the need, she'd be someone who has 40 cats .. that she has to look after. She is an enabler/caretaker/social worker, thru and thru and thru. She is not displeased, at all, not one iota .. with the life she lives.
So what is it that MIL would find so untenable that she just couldn't abide being there in that setting. Does he throw things, beat his wife .. curse, swear/drink . do drugs ... stay out all hours of the day and nite chasing skirts .. nope. See above, .. those are his flaws. That's the accurate portrayal of what goes on that she cannot be around, it's just too hard to be around it, "nobody understands how hard it is .. you all don't live it, .. I do when I"m around it".
I'm just wondering what thoughts she wants to discuss with your DH. Hang in there, Dorker. I know it's beyond frustrating, but you're staying firm with what you will and won't do, that's good.
Why should she find sitting in a cool, clean house with a daughter running circles around her making her life "perfect" anything other than a pretty darn good thing is beyond me. As I said before, she's not going to prison: Shes visiting IL.
Sheesh. Does he sit and poke pins into MIL all the time she's there? short sheet her bed? Put salt in the sugar dispenser? I cannot fathom WHAT he could do to engender such anger.
Sounds like he's LUCKY to be pharmaceutically calmed down. I have been having some struggles with my own hubby and I am also "artificially calmed down" until things get better.
She thinks she will die there, and never see her home again
This is going to be too hard to do, nobody knows how hard this is
She just loves her quiet/peaceful home, doesn't want to leave it
SIL's home is going to have a construction site ongoing vs her peaceful home
The only way out of all this is that she just needs to go on and die
She wishes she could go on and die
Not fair that her daughter has to return to retrieve her, then return trip
The above and more .. it's all been said contless times before. Anybody that doesn't know of the above refrain hasn't been listening. I agree with Blackhole, this sh*tshow can't get gone soon enough.
And I somewhat agree with the premise that SIL's husband .. and all his neediness, .. were he not in the way .. maybe SIL and all her diligence, all 1000% of it could be focused solely on MIL .. and who knows .. maybe that bad ole trip outta here wouldn't even have to happen .. SIL could just give up her life entirely ..
Who knows how she thinks.
I find myself somewhere between sad .... and really angry.
Sad? Because I see what the above constant refrain does to my husband .. it makes him sad .. for his mother. (I suppose it also makes SIL sad, haven't asked don't care). But it also makes me very angry. The fact that she is so selfish that it's only about her .. and her wants ..
Oh sure she cloaks that one part ... "not fair to daughter that she has to fly down here to retrieve me .. and then only to return to take me back". But let's all remember here, .. months ago, I offered to facilitate said exit outta here .. and help organize and pack and SIL opted that it will be too stressful/too traumatic .. so she needs to be the one to be here. Okay .. have at it then. So .. that whole line .. "it's so unfair to my daughter.................". I call B/S .. I told MIL that I offered the above .. (whether she remembers that, .. who knows).
Oh there's going to be a construction site ongoing at SIL's home, vs my quiet/peaceful home here. DH countered with ... "yea mom .. for a week maybe .. it's not like this is going to be ongoing your entire duration there .. it will take a week maybe and they'll be gone, you'll be alright".
So there was counter to that point.
She needs to just go and die .. DH countered with .. he says .. it sounds like, some consternation on that point and that she's being dramatic and making this a whole lot worse than it needs to be, and he doesn't wanna hear that kinda talk anymore, .. and pointed out to her, "well let's talk about what WE CAN control, we can't control when the day comes your number is up, so let's talk about what IS IN OUR CONTROL".
She feels as though she will die there, and never see her home again. Don't know what his counter to that was .. mine would be, "isn't that what you want .. to go to your great reward .. does it really matter from where that originates, really?".
I'm just really angry with her,.. that she would put DH through this, .. it is NOT that bad.
I think .. when I see her Thursday if she brings it up (she doesn't with me any longer, as it's pretty evident to her, Dorker is not in the *keep MIL here* team). If she brings it up, I think I will tell her in no uncertain terms, ... "ya know you are one who is famous for saying things could be worse, .. let's go visit a nursing home this afternoon and talk to the staff there about the folks housed there that have no visits, not a soul on this planet that gives a shit one way or the other if they live or die .. let's go talk to some of them. Your daughter and your son want you where you can be safely looked after, and TEMPORARILY FOR CHRIST'S SAKE .. I'm kinda over it here, you upsetting both of them .. get over it yourself, let's go .. we're gonna go visit some cases that are truly troubling, not yours.
Don't know what her response was (wasn't there). Probably some more of the "nobody knows how hard this is".
For crying lout loud you guys? I am trying (maybe that compassion bucket that I needed to keep some reserve in .. maybe at this point it's so dry .. and rotted in the bottom there's no way to even have anything left at all in it) .. I'm trying to understand .. I truly am .. because I don't.
This is someone who yes, was younger, more mobile at that time, but used to routinely travel to and stay with her daughter for a couple or three weeks at the time .. this isn't new .. this isn't a dirty nasty house with individuals who are hateful and mean .. not by any stretch .. it never was.
What is there here, but a house .......... I am trying so hard to understand.
She has no involvements here .. and attachments . it's not like she has the Bridge Club and oh dear how will they go on if I'm not there, or the Bingo Club . or the Senior Church Ladies group .. or the Senior Citizen Center ..
SHE HAS NO ATTACHMENTS HERE ................. ZERO!
She's not having to uproot and leave some social setting that there will be a group of elderly women crying and pining away at her absence. Not in the least.
Her dog is going with her, .. so it's not like she's being asked to board her dog in a posh doggie resort for 3 months or so ..
What is it?
Yes, I have a house .. and yes I would like to stay here .. but I also don't find it so deplorable that I'm playing the above like a fiddle, constantly.
I DON'T GET IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
As Midkid put it, she's going to her daughter's home, not to a labor camp .. her daughter's home that is clean, .. climate controlled .. and a daughter that will make her life a whole helluva lot easier .. in that she has someone there .. with her .. to do for her, .. (too much).
I don't get it, .. I just don't.
I asked DH, .. "so did you get the sense that she was waiting for you to pull the trigger to put a stop to all this .. that's what she wanted?".
He thought momentarily and said .. "oh yea .. yes .. had I listened to it all and said to her, . .that's it mom, I'm calling a halt to all this .. right now ........ she'd of been all about it .. but then I'd of not been able to come home to my wife .. "
He then went into explaining .. that keeping her here, has all of us hopping to prop it all up .. but as he put it (that seemingly is the one thing that is spared from any conversation with her .. in all of this, nobody comes right out and tells her, FOR GOD'S SAKE ............ you have every one of us hopping .. almost every day of the week .. we don't want to keep doing it, and shouldn't have to, your needs are too great, .. we all have a life .. a life that does not include hopping for you almost every day of the week". He went into, just in talking to me, explaining that one can't say those things to her, things that are very very much a part of the basis for all this .. because to do so, would further cement her, "I'm just a burden here and I just need to go on and die". Which of course, he doesn't want to hear.
I think if she said that to me, my response would probably be .. along the lines of "well .. since you can't control when that day comes . but we can control what happens as to how you get help .. then deal with it ....... this is gonna be the case .. just stop with all the pity party .. you aren't dying .. and so get used to the new normal".
I'm just so sick of it. And more to the point, seeing DH sad about it.
He can't express himself honestly to his mother. And when she expresses herself honestly to him, that doesn't go down so well either, does it?
Nobody has the slightest intention of making this stay in IL temporary. MIL is not falling for it; and although it might be annoying that she won't swallow it you can't call her irrational on those grounds.
Her home, her private space, is all she has left. That is where she feels safe (ignore the irony, she does) and she feels at peace. She does not want to give it up. There are consequences to that; and it's a question of who they land on. You have taken giant steps to make sure they don't fall on you, and you have achieved an enormous amount there which has been beneficial not only to your sanity but to *MIL as well*, because it has steered her towards expanding her support network - a work in progress, sure, but well under way.
Neither DH nor SIL wishes to be the kind of child who allows his mother to die through neglect. That is why they are both so stressed: MIL's choices force them to "neglect" her wellbeing. Of course, they are doing no such thing. They are respecting her right to make her own decisions. What they haven't managed yet is to *accept* it. That's the bit they need to work on.
If the church lady is coming to visit her today, the one who could have picked up the Poochy food and treats (you didn't have to step and fetch to get them, after all!), do you think MIL will sing the sad song "Leaving on a Jet Plane, don't know when I'll be back again..." to her? At least you know the church lady will reinforce to her how important it is that she go with SIL to IL.
I wonder if the few weeks leading up to SIL's arrival on Aug 16 will mean more steppin' and fetchin' requests from MIL, or less? What do you think?
When this thread started we were all waiting for the event that would land MIL in a facility. The one opportunity for that to happen was when she was hospitalized. That opportunity was lost. DH attempted to have the conversation with her and she got nasty, didn’t go to rehab, etc.
So, here we all are, waiting to see how this plays out. Some of us because we had loved ones with their heels dug in to their home and would not leave their home. Some of us because we don’t want to be a burden to our families in 30 years or so but the thought of living with our kids makes us shudder.
The thought of living with a personality like SILs I think would make me want to fling myself down a flight of stairs.
Unfortunately, I think MIL is WAY more attached to you, DH, and your daughters than she is to SILs family.
I think SILs micro managing of MIL from afar has ticked this whole situation up to an excruciating level.
I do hope you guys manage to get MIL on the plane for your sake...before you blow a gasket.
It would not surprise me if MIL or SIL wear themselves out and become ill dreading the fact they will be living under the same roof.
God forbid MIL sends an unsuspecting Flighty C or a Church Lady to fetch her some popcorn...
I will find it awfully hard on Thursday when I go there, to be kind to her. I'd like to blast her and tell her that her demeanor is making her offspring sad .. particularly my husband .. and she needs to knock it the h#!! off.
You wanna talk about what's hard ......??!?!?
As DH brought up to her, .. her with this demeanor of 'the answer to all this is if I just go ahead and die, .. so that you aren't having to do all you do, and sister too .. I just need to go on and die'
DH said he responded .. "Mom .. this isn't like when JA (a family member, who ultimately offed himself rather than face hospice) was dying of cancer .. and had been through 2 years of chemo and radiation .. and was now facing hospice placement ... it's not like that, you need to get a damn grip here".
AMEN!!!!!!!
Wanna know what's hard ... a 17 year old boy laying in the hospital minus his damn legs .. and burns over 40% of his body .. facing years of a life altered by a horrible accident.
There are worse things! BY FAR. Get over your damn pity party. So you have it so so so bad .. because you have offspring that are willing to step up and help you!
I have no patience at this point for any of it.
Talking to DH this morning and him hating it that his mom's sentiment is one of "I just need to go on and die".
Nobody wants a loved on to feel so desparate that they think that's their best option .. to go on and die.
She better not say that to me, ... she will be told that she needs counseling and an antidepressant .. and outside of any willingness to address that need ..;.. I don't want to hear any of it .. and then point out to her WHAT IS HARD . this isn't hard...
It's beyond ridiculous.
She also, forgot to mention. threw in there (cant wait to be nosy and scroll thru her caller ID to see if this is even true) .. mentioned to DH that the b'friend from long ago (when she was 17) .. oh he beckons for her to come live there with him.
I asked DH, .. "did you tell her to jump all over it, .. tell him to come get ya".
He said, "no, I told her, .. mom .. what he envisions is the 17 yo girl he once knew ... he's looking for someone to take care of him .. ".
Oh her pining away for what was .. what could've been 70 years ago. So he wants you, .. tell him to come get ya.
That would be my answer.
Oh I am so over this.
And DH feeling sad that his mom is of the notion she needs to just "go on and die" that would be the answer to all of this.
How bout the answer to all of this, as I shared with her last week, . while on the topic of her brother in law, who is now moving from his daughter's to AL .. and her having said of themselves, as "old folks" .. her comment: "Oh us old folks, we're not good for anything .. we can't do a damn thing, we're all just good-for-nothing", and I responded to that, "oh but there is .. you old folks as you call yourselves can work with those who need to try to help you, everybody work together, it can't be just about what works for the *old folk*".
How bout that as a concept?
No, let's make everyone cry and upset .. that this poor ole soul figures the best approach is to just go on and die.
Church lady fully aware of the whole scene. As church lady and myself have discussed .. one can only reroute the dialogue with a positive spin on it, which is her approach ..
Church lady says that she tells her .. each time that it goes down the avenue MIL would like to take it .. she reroutes it (as I've done) .. "but this will be better for your daughter .. and you can spend quality time with her, ......" .. on and on .. that path, rerouting it all.
But MIL then reverts back to the same ole pattern .. woe with me .. this is so hard, nobody knows.
And in answer to the popcorn thing .. yes I thought about that, ..sure hope she doesn't put in a call to the church lady this morning, "you know what I'd like, . if you could just stop at the grocery for me, and get me some popcorn, I have been craving some good popcorn".
I haven't tipped off the church lady on that .. only because .. GOOD GOD how much policing does this person need??!!!
Flighty C, not an entity in any of this. Flighty C of the ilk .. she'll pop over, say after she's had a fish fry and 30 people at her home .. a party . and bring MIL a plate of food and all bubbly and exuberant personality .. and pop in for a brief visit and as she's leaving, "call me if you need me". But then if one ever calls her,.. she's at a party, she's out of town, .. she's at work, she's in a meeting.
Flighty C .. as I knew it would be .. is really kinda not even in any of this, for MIL to call her to ask for anything.
Of course SIL with her MD degree she thinks she has .. over-rode that directive with a mindset of, "why do they even do cognitive testing in a hospital setting, the person's world has been upended, they are disoriented, they are in pain, of course, they aren't gonna test out as having all their faculties".
My response to that, "what's the harm ... wouldn't it be nice to know if she is operating on all cylinders .. they want her tested as to cognitive impairment and what degree, ... what's the harm ........ they want her participating in a driving program before resuming driving .. do it .. what's the harm".
SIL and her supposed MD degree ... saw to it the PA at the neurologist saw things her way and the above was nixed.
If you are truly vested in what is in the best interest of your loved one, a team of horses isn't gonna be able to steer you off that path ......
Then another hospitalization at xmas .. where in she fell .. and was brought home via ambulance .. unable to ambulate, for God's sake. There, the argument had been .. she wasn't hospitalized as "inpatient" thus didn't qualify for any rehab site ... she was outpatient ..and my pleas to SIL .. at that time, to reroute that, get ahold of the powers that be .. and get that classified as inpatient .. SIL with her mentality .. and her saying .. "it isnt' possible .. hospitals do this routinely now .. as a means of avoiding Medicare fine .. in the event of re-admit .. so they classify patients as outpatient .. that way if there is re-admit .. they don't get fined, .. it's not possible to get her re-classified .. as inpatient .. they have her as outpatient .. that disqualifies her from any stint in rehab .. and that's written in stone .. on high and nobody can change it".
In the meantime we've rocked along here, .. to the point it is coming to a head that MIL will indeed have to make that move (I guess she could flat out refuse at this point) ......... and so now all the academy award winning drama begins .......Meryl Streep better step aside ..........
Plan A.....trick Dorker into buying me popcorn, get massive diarrhea episode, prevent travel.
Plan B....Shame DH by saying I want to die. He will cave and tell SIL that he will talk Dorker into stepping and fetching....then MIL can stay in perfect little home.
Make DB sad and miserable, so that he can be as unhappy as I am.
Plans C, D, E and F......yet to be determined and conjoured up. I will scheme and manipulate all that I possibly can. I can sit here all day until another brilliant angle is planned. I will not willingly go up that gangplank to the plane.
Stay strong Ms. Dorker.....the next 17 days are going to be a "fecal show".
The realization however, this not my fight. She hasn't said any of this to me .. she has lamented the whole (though not recently) .. "this is going to be so hard .. I don't want to leave my house, my treasures, my memories, this is where I'm most comfortable" .. she has lamented that whole thing in conversation with me. It gets met with redirect .. as I reroute it all, to a positive spin. She's quit bringing it up to me .. it gets her nowhere. She certainly hasn't played the whole .............. "I just need to go on and die, that's the answer to all of this". That one hasn't been played on me.
If she did I would really quickly let her know that hearkens to me .. years back when I was dealing with a teen daughter that would routinely threaten same, and ended up Baker Acted a number of times. That I don't "do" suicide ideation real well, not a lot of tolerance in that for me .. been there/done it ...
Maybe that's why that path hasn't been forged in dialogue with me, an awareness it will land with a thud with me.
Thankfully, taking solace in the fact that SIL . thus far .. is pretty absent in any of this. I'm not hearing from her, .. "poor mother, .. she's just so sad and troubled over this whole thing, causing her a lot of anxiety and she's really dreading this whole thing".
I'm not hearing anything at all from SIL. Thankfully.
Yes ,Plan A: Get Dorker to back off all this, need to not be here during hurricane season. FAIL
Plan B: Get DD to champion the cause .. tell DD how miserable this whole concept is making poor ole me .. and DD will get in my corner and advocate for me. FAIL
Plan C: Complain about how it's making me so sad and troubled, to daughter. FAIL (thus far, daughter I think, it's finally dawning on her, the options are few)
Plan D: Get DH in my corner ........... have him get after that mean ole Dorker and let her know that I am queen .. and all are subject to my whims.
Plan E: Get some popcorn on board, which always, .. ALWAYS ALWAYS without fail causes a case of the trots to the bathroom that is just not anything that anyone can deal with, .. thus no plane boarding for me.
Plan F: Stay tuned
Plan G: Stay tuned
And on it goes ... it's ramping up .. my challenge at this point is to stay displaced from it all, and not call MIL and blast her into the next hemisphere .. I don't give a chit whether you stay there in your beloved home and all your treasures and memories .. and so forth .. but count me the same as the estranged son ... out.
I am so livid.
Oh and her bringing up the whole ... to her son ........ "going to SIL's and the steps .. here in my home there aren't any steps ...".
GRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The only "step" in MIL's home .. is the step up from the garage .. onto what is the level of her home .. something she rarely even has to encounter, being a prisoner to her home and the only time she ever leaves said home is accompanied by someone escorting and assisting .. thus that one lone step she has to navigate .. someone is with her .. yes then she is on the level of her home and there are no other steps anywhere (unless she goes out onto her deck and/or b'yard .. which she doesn't do, she's a prisoner inside her home, .. at the mercy of whoever will come and help and do there).
Her daughter's home .. yes there are steps to get down into the basement .. many of them, stairs .. but there is no call at all for her to go to the basement .. she will have no reason to go down there. There is a step from the rest of the home .. at SIL's down onto and into what is SIL's den ... and so yes, she will have to step down to be a part of things and be in the den .. and step up to exit that den
”Unfortunately, many elders are more than willing to throw their adult children under the bus so they can live as they want”
What you are seeing now, Dorker- is the tread marks on dh’s backside.
This is not a zero sum game, where if MIL wins, you lose (or anyone else loses).
I am beginning to think that seeing it as any kind of game or battle is becoming extremely unhelpful to you, actually. Except that, in a way, you've already won. You won when you called a limit to how much you were intervening.
Now that you have successfully changed your schedule around MIL, it really doesn't matter *to you* what she does. Moves happily to a nursing home next door to SIL, or sits on her roof praying for hurricanes - either way, it's not you who on the one hand gives up your own home or on the other meets your maker.
IF MIL goes to IL you and DH will be relieved. But that's all. I doubt if it will significantly change how concerned either of you is about her.
If she doesn't, you will continue to be worried about how she's doing; and you will - if you want - continue to assist her.
But SHE is the one who is faced with a life as someone else's dependant; or a stroke and a miserable few months in a nursing home; or a broken hip.
How is it unreasonable for her to think, from time to time, that she'd be better off dead? This is not an adolescent with raging hormones and her whole life ahead of her. This is a lady who is as a matter of fact coming to the end of any kind of life she wishes to be leading and is very aware of it.
It's sad. But the aim is to make her as comfortable with it as possible, as far as you can, it's not to batter her into submission. If it isn't possible, give up. There is no "losing," here - she is the one who takes the consequences, not you.
She doesn't want to "just go ahead and die", she's upset that she knows she can't function as she used to, in her home. I still think that may be some of her displaced anger toward your kind BIL...his disability (what she perceives as weakness) reminds her too much of herself.
Is she really having suicidal ideation? This same woman who is so vain and worries so much about her dog? Not a chance. She's just NOT wanting to go to IL. Period.
I know it hurts and angers one simultaneously to hear the words, "I wish I would die" from your parent. I have heard this statement from my mom too, several times. The same woman who makes sure to call me at the last minute about a tooth that needs seen about. Or takes 3 extra antidepressant pills and calls me saying she overdosed (happened last year) so I'll call an ambulance and come running. Suicidal? No. Mad when she doesn't get her way? Always. Sad and scared that she can't function like she used to and gets confused sometimes? Yep. Willing to change a whole lot? When hell freezes over. I could relate to Xena too, it's still a battle sometimes.
Still hoping SIL can and will get her on that plane August 16th. But if she doesn't, DH may have to, as CM suggested, set a limit as to how much time he wants to devote to his mother (for example, you do Thursdays, maybe he does Fridays, then you're both done for the week as to attending to the need).
Perfect, summed up nicely IMO.
What isn't being said, .. because she already feels like, if she could go on and die, then everybody would be rid of her and her nuisance self and problems .. that's her feeling .. that's the solution. Thus, the one thing that isn't said to her is .... "you require more and more and more assistance from those that care about you, and you are going to have to take that into consideration going forward that it can't be all on us, nor all on sister .. it's unfair to all of us .. if you remain here, that burden then becomes ours .. solely .. sans when SIL can be here, and then direct us, while here, as to what she deems appropriate we need to see to. You need to share some of that .. and go in her direction and let her help you .. from the comfort of her own home.
She would read/hear .. in the above, "I'm a problem, I'm the sole problem here, I just need to go on and die". Thus it isn't said to her.
Yes IT is a problem, ... IT is a problem ............... for sure. So what's the solution? See above. It isn't dying ............. as that will come when it does, .. and no one can hasten that ... not realistically ........ the problem IS ........... you need more help .. and so YOU are going to have to compromise on how that help is administered. Period.
I think of the struggles this time last year, one of those being .. she'd been told repeatedly the cane isn't sufficient. Needs the walker 100% of the time. Her refusing to do so .. and even being somewhat argumentative about it .. that she'll do as she damn well pleases. I think, ... the cane rarely sees the light of day anymore ... (if it does I'm not aware of it). She tried, not too long ago, when we were off to go somewhere, to say she was just going to take her cane and not the walker, and she met in me, .. obstinence on that point. No, I'm not taking you then, that isn't sufficient and I can't go down with you and get hurt. Get your walker. She did so.
I remember haggling with SIL over the above point, and her refusal to use the walker as she'd been advised. And SIL saying .. "she's not taking to this old age stuff very well, .. she's fighting it tooth and nail the whole way".
I said at the time, perhaps she needs some type of counseling to come to terms with what "is" rather than what "if". Of course, that wasn't to be.
So now here we are at another fork in the road .. as to the changes that are necessary and her fighting it tooth and nail. And in the end, I am only a DIL .. I help because I care about her .. and because she was a good g'ma .. to our kids .. the best of the best. But .,...the whole thing ... and how absolutely impossible she is being .. shouldn't be something I wear as a DIL in this. Her offspring should be fighting this battle ...
I think DH did ...... at least finally ......... step up to the plate .. in their conversation yesterday .. (finally) in not acquiescing to it all, meeting her point for point with rebuttal . and not backing down.
I remember having words with her about this time last year . when she was hospitalized with the UTI and obstinent about the use of a walker .. and not doing so . and my cautioning her, it's to her own advantage, .. the healthcare workers that advise .. no skin off their nose if you don't .. and you fall ... you are going to have to change .. with the changes that come your way .. and realize that you have to do so ... to keep yourself as well as you can. Her arguing with me at the time.
I'm just over it that it all has to be an argument!
I've said all the above, countless times when it's come up in conversation with me .. and everything you can think of to place nice. And it turns her to the talk at that point of .. "well you're right .. I haven't been to her house in a long long time .. and maybe it would be different if I were there, rather than her here .. and I am a prisoner here in this house .. I can't go anywhere and do anything".
She does begin to talk more positive .. maybe to shut me up .. maybe she does see the merit in it, ..
But only for it to turn again .. to the whole woe is me thing, countless times.
I think my head will snap off if I hear it anymore.
She doesn't have as single ally in this thing, any longer. Well, maybe SIL .. I dunno .. but SIL realizes I think also, the jig is up .. time to do something different ..
Church lady has tried to spin it positive .. and thinks she needs to go, well past time.
And the only other people in her world at this point are DH, myself and our daughters, and they all think she needs to go.
I don't know, maybe the housekeeper that sees her bi-monthly has a different take on it all, haven't asked. But that sums up who is a part of her world, to even weigh in on anything.
Flighty C isn't a part of her world, in Team MIL .. as would've been sold to me, if I'd of believed it and I didn't.
Her other neighbors across the street .. he brings in her garbage for her .. weekly, outside of that, he may come over and prune some flowers or trim some hedges . but that's about it. He doesn't do anything else, as in hauling her hither and yon, nor picking up anything she might need.
The MOW drivers, .. all they do is hand off a bag of food at the front door .. their assessment of anything would be pretty negligible. They too were at one time, sold as part of team MIL that hasn't come to fruition.
I do try ... maybe not trying hard enough (??) ... to see things from her perspective. We all can't do the things we once did. I can't go jump on a trampoline anymore .. or go lay on the beach and fry like a piece of bacon for hours .. or stray too far from where I might need a bathroom facility .. or many other things I can't do any longer, eat too late at night ....... eat the wrong things.
We all have changes we adapt to .. or better. She's not special. She's not the only one on the planet that aged and got to the point she needs more help. High time she step up and realize it. I try hard to understand things from her perspective .. and in that, hopefully find some sympathy .. but for the life of me, I can't find it.
To me, it's as plain as the nose on your face, you being the one that needs more help, have to then compromise on how you get that help. Period. That's all there is to it. Simple.
Trust me, it is not just MIL. I've had this battle with my aunt.
She has damaged her hip joint from using the cane too much and leaning hard on it to walk too far. My father only uses a rollater at his house getting around the yard. WON'T be seen with a walker in public and, surprise, he is having hip and back pain from it. My grandmother was the same way. She didn't even want to use her quad cane. She dragged it behind her like wheeled luggage. She took a bad fall in a parking lot while she was dragging her cane.
Cracked her kneecap. It was the beginning of the end for her.
It was the beginning of the end, in a sense, of more of her independence, caving in to the use of the walker. Or maybe she should've been on it longer ... prior to her caving in (probably so).
I know it was this time last year, or maybe prior to this time . when she was still so insistent on the use of her cane vs the walker. She didn't drive a whole lot even then .. maybe just maybe to a doc if no one could take her, but rarely .. she'd rather someone take her even then .. but the grocery .. she'd go to the grocery store on her own .. prior to this time last year, .. cane in use.
And it would make me nuts that she would park .. in the parking lot .. wherever she could find an errant grocery cart, to lean upon .. even if it was way out in the north 40 .. she needed that grocery cart to lean on to get into and around the grocery store. But no .. she didn't need a walker ...
These little old ladies don't even realize what sitting ducks they are for malfeasance. I had an aunt years and years ago, very frail, but not walker material .. .she was better off than that. Carload of thugs drove by and snatched that purse on her shoulder as she ambled her way thru the parking lot and she hung onto it .. and was dragged by said moving car, breaking several bones and a long hospitalization.
MIL is far worse off .. and has been for quite some time, than the aunt referred to. Somebody could blow on her and knock her over.
Inside of just over a year .. she is no longer able to get to and amble around the grocery anymore.
Got a text from SIL today that she's been struggling to get an appt for her mom at the cardio the brief week she'll be here to retrieve her, ..
The hope there is to make sure any meds, rx's .. can be at the ready for the Walgreens . up where she lives, .. vs here .. and further a script from the cardio doc for some PT. Said she hasn't been able to get an appt for when she's here, but they can see her this Thursday .. can I take her. Yes, .. I will take her .. and instruction from SIL .. "make sure they are alright with writing her scripts for the next few months for her stay up here .. and let them know she'll be here .. and make sure you get a written piece of paper for the PT .. for balance/strength.
She goes on to say she's been to their lending closet there at the local church and secured another walker .. (MIL will bring one with her, but I guess needs more than one, I dunno). Said she got a bed assist thing (it's an apparatus that tucks between the mattress, with a bar that one can brace off of to get out of bed, got a brace thing for the toilet .. and a wheelchair, in case her mom will let her wheel her around the neighborhood some while she's there.
Was encouraged to hear that there are works in progress towards the end goal, and further that she's looking for that written PT referral. When she left here in April, it had been recommended she do on site PT 3 x's weekly but no way to get there .. 3 x's weekly and no, I wasn't signing on to do so.
So maybe that can now help improve her some .. who knows. But maybe SIL is looking to see to that on her end .. when she gets her up there .. on site PT. Good!
Have no idea MIL's thoughts on that .. she may nix the whole thing . but it won't be my battle to wage.
Not yet, anyway...
for MILs stay is the most encouraging thing I think I’ve read here - ever.
I do believe if everyone sticks together and remains firm - that this is what needs to happen MIL will go. Dragging here walker and complaining but she’ll go.
I do think it’s important to reassure her that in about three months she will return to her home. Someone here said something along the line of “we all know mil isn’t coming back...”. Did I miss something? Because that’s not how I’ve been understanding the plan.
I know there had been talk that life will, .. at some point .. evolve to .... MIL will spend time in IL .. and vice versa .. and she will .. to quote her, "never live alone again".
That is the ultimate agenda ... or "plan" that will have to be enacted .. or so it's said.
No one has bothered to go there with the talk of, .. ".......and if MIL isn't ambulatory .. who of all of us is hulk enough to pick her up for toileting and bathing, etc etc". Talk hasn't gone there. But ... none of us are hulk enough for that .. few would be.
Is this, this exit to IL (temporary) .. is this the cusp of what will commence the future of "I'll never live alone again". I dunno.
I don't know if that's next on the radar .. is MIL deposited back in FL .. and supposed Team MIL is up to bat. SIL exits for IL? Is this the beginning of .. now SIL will then jockey back and forth, MIL in tow ...???.....
What part does DH play in all the above if that is to be the process as we move forward? What part does Dorker play in that?
I don't even agree that this should ALL, forever and ever Amen .. be solely on SIL .. even I don't think that's fair. But the particulars and specifics .. this family that is so good at communication and working the finite details thru ... I haven't a clue, and it's not mine to navigate thus I've stayed out of what next.
Worse things could happen, mind you. MIL might miss her home, in fact I'm sure she will, but she may well find she doesn't miss the daily struggle and isn't up to insisting on going back to it.
Has anyone done any discreet fact-finding about facilities and funding in IL?
Not how she will return here, not a thing about facilities and the *how to* thereof, either here or there .. who will stay with her, when she returns here .. if anyone .. or is she to be left alone forever after once deposited back here ... nothing.
And remember there's excitable Dorker over here that used to raise hand and try to interject, "hey folks have we thought about ___________________" (fill in the blank on any number of topics) and summarily dismissed with my "noise".
I've quit. I no longer suggest and/or question. Took this thick skull a long time to learn it, it's an exercise in my own frustration to continue doing so. But learn it I did.
I don't like the unknown .. don't like surprises. Thus, to me, it makes better sense to have some semblance of what should be mapped out. But I'm alone in that thought process in dealing w/these folks. So no .. nothing has been discussed, nothing at all.
On the departure for IL and her daughter's home (temporarily) .. the thought occurred to me .. and how nice it would be if things did work out that way. What if the sun/moon/stars are aligning .. not that she is finally taken out of this earthly presence, that's not my point. But ... she has said herself .. countless times (and it is true, she's not lying) that her daughter is no one that you can enjoy any longer .. her daughter so the task master ... always the task master, .. one thing to the next to the next ... to the next. That hamster wheel runs ever faster.
Her only experience in her daughter's presence for the last several YEARS ....... has been that of her daughter flying in here, to "help" her. Be that as the result of injury/illness, .. and or maybe no occurrence has been at issue, but still .. here for her two/three week stint at "helping". And when that does transpire, that daughter runs full tilt, .. and doesn't stop .. ever!
Wouldn't it be nice if, in MIL's waning days here .. months/years .. whatever time she has left, who knows .. wouldn't it be nice if this was a *reconnection* of sorts with her daughter. If .. she finds in her daughter, at least there on her daughter's territory .... (yes her daughter runs on hyper drive all the time anyway, not one to stop and smell the roses ever, and contemplate her navel) .. but wouldn't it be nice if this could be .. at least on her daughter's home turf .. some "time" for the two of them to enjoy one another again. At least "some" time in it all.
It sure doesn't happen when her daughter comes here. Not one bit. And has been that way for SEVERAL YEARS ........ with her daughter swooping into town here and hopping on that ever faster running hamster wheel. That's the God's honest truth.
MIL hasn't been to her daughter's home in SEVERAL years. Probably the last time she was there at her daughter's home .. she was not nearly as bad off as she is these days .. and so there was maybe "some" enjoyment to be had in one another's company.
I dunno of course. Time will tell how it all plays out. But the thought occurred to me, .. maybe this is all, .. in the broader scheme of things, .. the sun/moon and stars aligning to at least have a re-connection of sorts .. for the two of them .. before she goes to her big cloud in the sky. Who knows.
DH talking this morning of having phoned his mom yesterday who'd had a visit from church lady. His mom having expressed maybe some distrust .. and maybe even conspiracy (my words not her's) .. but tone to her convo .. that the church lady too, encouraging this departure, .. she wonders "where does that come from". DH having imparted to her, "Mom everyone that encounters you, wonders what in the hell you're doing living alone