I've posted before about in-law care-giving. Aged mother in law, lives in same town.
We are at the tail end of a visit from sister in law from several states away. Sister in law has been here for 3 weeks caring for her mother. A much welcome respite.
It had been discussed, prior to her arrival here on the scene, she would be talking it over with her mother, to try and get her mom to come up to her home, for a stay of maybe a few months.
This, in my opinion, is absolutely essential, as I am expecting twin grand-children, due in about 1 month (if they don't come sooner, as is the case a lot of times with multiples pregnancies). The expectant mother also lives locally here, and has a 4 year old daughter. I will be on that front, helping .. as much as is needed. And not on the front with mother in law and care-giving, and have made that as obvious and apparent as I know how to make it. It would be great if mother in law would agree to go to her daughter's home (several states away) for a period of a few months .. and allow me the latitude to put my energies where I want them to be, on my daughter who will have had a c-section .. and my grand-daughter (4 years old) and new twin babies.
Nothing doing. Mother in law has dug in her heels, and will not hear of it, going to stay with her daughter for any period of time.
What are her reasons?
In mother in law's defense ... her daughter ... I don't even know how to describe it. I will say that when her daughter comes here to visit, she all but breathes for her mother and if she could find a way to do that, she'd do that too. She is the most nervous nelly, never sit down - ever ... worry wart, do everything, all the time .. person that I've ever encountered.
A great example, as I was taking her to the airport yesterday for her departure, . I reached into the fridge to grab myself a bottled water and shut the fridge and turned to walk away, as I've done for all of my 50 plus years living on this earth .. and she said to me, "Oh make sure that fridge shut". WTH???? Like I don't know how to shut a fridge? That's just a small, very small slice of what she is ... how she is.
She is so very hyper-vigilant, seeing to every minute details down to it's finest most minuscule point, fine tooth comb, questioning every point along the way, "should we do thus and so, but maybe if we do thus and so, then such and such will happen, maybe we should do it thus and so .. but then so and so might happen, maybe we shouldn't do thus and so, but do "x" "y" and "z" instead, but if we don't do it that way then ..........", on and on and on and on it goes. And usually in hyper warp speed, as to every single friggin thing.
If her mother moans .. "what's wrong mother?, why did you moan, are you alright?".
Mother: "Yes, I'm fine, I was just sighing out loud".
Sister: "Why did you sigh? Are you hurting, are you sure you're alright, why are you sighing what's the matter?"
Mother: "For God's sake __________________, I was just sighing, .. calm down, I'm fine".
Sister: "Are you sure, .. because if something is wrong you need to tell me".
Mother: "Everything is fine, I'm fine".
Sister: "Are you sure, we did a lot yesterday, did we do too much, maybe we shouldn't of gone to two doctors in one day .. was that too much for you, are you too tired now, maybe we need to move those other doctor appointments so we won't have two in one day, is that too much for you, for one day .. is that why you were sighing .. what's wrong, are you sure you're alright".
Hopefully that kinda gives a little bit of a snapshot of what goes on when sister is in the ring directing things.
So in mother in law's defense.. I do get it, why she wouldn't be chomping at the bit to go to her daughter's home.
BUT ....
The only experience she has with her daughter, in the last years as mother in law has aged and been unable to go anywhere much, has been the daughter coming here, periodically, for periods of about 3 weeks at a stretch. When her daughter comes here, she moves heaven and earth for her mother and then some, and doesn't sit down, doesn't stop .. the WHOLE ENTIRE TIME.
Is there a possibility maybe (as I said to mother in law, when she expressed that isn't happening - talking to me - her going to her daughters .. ever) .. could it be possible that maybe if you would go to where she lives .. she'd be more busy managing her own life in that setting than your's and she would get out of your backside .. and not be as hyper-drive-vigilant as you experience in her, when she's here, could that be possible.
The daughter is retired, lives several states away. Does come here, generally, every few months .. and stays for a period of about 3 weeks at a stretch. I wish I could make a list of everything the daughter did when here this last time, but it would take up the whole character allotment:
SIL has had her at her house 1 week plus... and has fought MIL's diarrhea since they got there. Urging hydration, struggle with what it is that's suitable for her to eat...BRAT diet off and on, mostly on, for now right at a month.
We're she to have firmly dig in and refused to leave her home, no one to see about all the above.
I guess she doesn't see that....to her, She's just fine right there in her home ... she and Poochy.
Until just mere weeks ago...So was SIL fine with it.
She's isn't dealing with a full deck and doesn't see that being in a care facility would be the better thing. She wouldn't be alone, THEY could predict death better and would call family.
You will find, I suspect, after her demise, some skeleton: a younger sibling, a cousin, aunt, someone, who went to a horrible 1950's era facility and perhaps lobotomized. Or damaged in some awful way.
Her reasoning is not logical, but it's not without its reasons.
There's a difference between "lessons learned: ( don't get yourself into careegivging unless there are parameters and boundaries from the outset} and how to manage elder care when you are the "in charge' person
oneself accordingly.
So, thanks Dorker for teaching me appropriate boundaries!
Back to the question asked here, though -- there are many lessons from this thread, but my biggest takeaway is that of others -- BOUNDARIES established early on and strictly maintained.
This thread has also been helpful in that I have had to think about my own upbringing, situation, how what has happened in our past affects our attitudes now. Thank you, Dorker, for your sharing of all that has occurred in your family. I think it has helped a lot of us in ways that you don't even know.
Thank you Dorker.
PLAN NOW for the future. And don't put expectations and demands on your kids, holding them hostage to your care--yes, our parents did all this for us, but I might go out on a limb and say "My mother changed my diapers for about 2 years, do I get to stop changing hers after 2 years?" I was essentially "on my own" after the age of 12, really, worked, earned all my own spending money for the rest of my life--can I stop contributing to mother's needs now? (20 years in)--she didn't do my laundry (in fact she didn't even do the family laundry) for the last 15 years I lived at home--can I stop doing that? She wasn't much of a housekeeper, am I supposed to be her weekly "maid" forever?
She did the best she could, I give her that. She has emotional issues that will NEVER be resolved..and at age 88--well-not a chance. Do I need to stop seeing my psychiatrist and therapist b/c she thinks I've been going long enough?
You get the gist, It isn't tit-for-tat.
My kids owe me respect and that's it. I DO NOT want them fussing and worrying me, ever. They haven't yet, and I doubt that will be an issue.
Now, hopefully I'll keep all my marbles and they WON'T have to place me in a home.
(Funny, tho. DH expects that we all will pull together for his care. He's only 66, but 2 recent heart attacks--I don't know if we'll ever get him "back" and he's perfectly content to let the daughters & me fuss him. I'm sick to death of it and I may have 20 more years of it. No way will I let my girls do for him what I have to do!!!!)
My INCREDIBLY SENSIBLE sister remodeled her home to put in a basement apartment for her son's family while he was in dental school. Then when they were done, she made the apartment more "separate" and rents it out. Her plan is that when'if they need help, they will hire caregivers to live in the apartment. Their living is all on one level, and she put a smaller laundry upstairs.
So brilliant! House is already "senior friendly" and she even did grab bars in the tub so they were "ready". She's 64 and still throwing sheetrock around as she runs/maintains all their apartments. (We're a tough bunch).
Her sons both live one house away. One next door and one two houses "behind" them, but she does not call on them, and plans to never need to do so.
This forethought makes me know that when we "downsize" to a rambler in the next year or so, I will do the same thing!
Not everyone has that option--my parents did, but wouldn't allow their "dream home" to be "cut in half"--long story short, they lost the house to near bankruptcy, making the changes to be able to rent the basement and Mom could still be living there. Sheer stubbornness got them in the end and it was so sad.
I think the sister in law does all that because she feels guilty about something and believe me her life is not as organized as she is giving off. She may even feel a lil jealous of her mom not wanting to live with her and is looking for an opportunity to slander the care she is recieving currently. She seems like a person that narrates their every move or micromanage everything in life so exhausting. Your mother in law is not stupid she know she will not survive 2 days with her and her daughter is really trying yo take her last independence away by questioning every response. It shows she dont trust her moms opinion of what is happening in other words calling her crazy in a shady way. Mom knows her daughter would have her in a nursing home before new years. Just my opinion I could be wrong
DH mentioned this morning having talked to his mom last night, up in IL. His mom still has the ongoing diarrhea and SIL still working with trying to find suitable diet for her mom. The mom reports that she has little to no appetite, but that used to go on here also ... and that was true, .. until or if .. someone brought her a plate of something from this end, .. which she would devour. I'm sure it's the same there in IL ... except that I know for a fact SIL is cooking daily and if she weren't suffering this malady .. she'd be eating .. whatever it is SIL is cooking. But, SIL ever-vigilant .. with her mom's care, is likely limiting what her mom eats .. BRAT diet type stuff. And I'm sure, .. 4 weeks plus into this, at this point, .. her mom is sick to death of boring/bland BRAT diet foods.
I haven't talked to any of them since last Thursday.
I don't know how long one can go on with this condition. Seems to me she should be insisting her mom be hospitalized .. as she was one time previously ... with this particular malady.
But I'm staying out of it all.
I did suggest, when I last talked to SIL on the topic, "maybe this whole diarrhea thing has been more problematic all along than we've been lead to believe".
SIL's response to that: "She didn't have it when I came for that brief visit with my son and his family".
(((That you know of)))
Whatever.
Just glad that she is with someone presently that is looking after her need to stay hydrated, .. and her need to eat appropriately .. things she was not able to do living alone .. and we weren't able to stay with her around the clock to police said things.
Seems like SIL was kind of snarking at YOU...."mother never had this when I was there"--well, how much actual time did she spend with her when the royalty was in town and did MIL just cover it up? She's probably embarrassed by it and wanted to put her best face forward for the grandkid she never sees. Who knows?
No doubt the lining of her whole digestive system is out of whack. It may or may not ever heal.
SIL is, if nothing else, a trusty and tough nurse. If she can't get MIL "better" the hospital may be the only way to keep her hydrated--a problem with the elderly in general. My mother is ALWAYS supremely dehydrated---a trip to the ER always results in at least 2 bags of saline--just to get her "low normal". Usually all that's wrong with her is dehydration.
My SIL is a GI. I asked him recently about elderly patients, just in general and he did say that many just kind of fade away--their bodies literally just wear out. We're not made to run forever. No real "underlying cause"...just...worn out. He's a little jaded, obviously, but he's right.
Well--you did the right thing. Looks like you may get a hurricane after all. All that planning will NOT be for naught.
Hope you are enjoying the break.
Ditto to many of the take aways from others above. My take-away is from the perspective of a care receiver. I would try to save as much money for my care as possible so that I can afford to hire help. And I would pay family members, as I would outsiders, when they help me because their time and efforts are just as valuable. Family members should not be expected to help day in and day out, year after year for free. They are not slaves.
I certainly will pay my children, friends, etc instead of putting guilt on them. If you think about how aid works, it makes sense to pay down your assets. When you run out of money, it seems to me you'd be best off giving each of the helpers IOU's so that when your remaining assets are sold after your death, the proceeds can be used to reimburse those who helped before any inheritance division is made (debts if the estate are settled first). That way the dear people who have helped me will be rewarded properly before those who never helped at all.
I'm suffering from gastrits myself now. I am nervous about my first colonoscopy (Dorker's FIL story!) and overindulged in cheese for a week after my 1st appt with GI doc (+cologuard test). Now I'm really sympathetic to how much MIL had been hiding - I don't want everyone to know my gut's business! Glad SIL is there to nurse her along.
Had to go to MIL's to check on her house/car, etc, and to grab some anti skid socks for them on their end (hospital socks). I guess they forgot about the fact that SIL has all hardwood floors, and an elderly with mobility issues, will need anti skid socks (stays in socks and PJ's most days).
While there, I called SIL only because I'd gotten a voice message yesterday from the medical alert folks, that it's time to "test" the system, "please activate by pressing the red button on the base unit".
Of course, the base unit .. I thought .. is at MIL's .. and so was gonna take care of that. Got there, but the base unit not where I thought it usually was. So had to call SIL.
SIL: "Oh it's here with us, we haven't hooked it up yet .. we haven't been anywhere, .. we've been right here with her, .. she hasn't been alone .. she hasn't even been out of the house since we got here, except to go to the doctor, she's had this damn diarrhea .. I tell ya, it's been a real challenge here to figure out what she can and can't eat .. and keeping her hydrated and so forth".
I had to kinda snicker under my breath, but also feel some sorrow at it all.
My response: "yea, much the same as here, .. she doesn't go outside here either, we would try to go get her, to bring her here .. or take her out to dinner, .. and she just couldn't do it, .. stayed indoors even at home, .. all the time".
SIL went on to tell me that her husband is heading out tomorrow, out of town, to go join some members of his family for some outing of some sort for the weekend ..
Again .. I had to kinda snarky like, say to myself, .. "uh huh .. and you're stuck there aren't ya".
I don't mean to be unkind .. and uncaring, and I know all too well what it's all about.
I got the sense (she didn't say as much though) that it's so very confining .. and so restrictive and SIL is finding that in this set up. Can't go outside, .. can't get her out .. can't make plans to go do anything .. she isn't well enough to be left alone, and certainly not up to the trip to go do anything with them.
Hope springs eternal I suppose, in SIL's remark: "Poor mother, she's so hoping she can just get well enough to go out and do some things .. she's sick of being confined to the house".
I thought to myself, but didn't say it .. "hell she is confined to the house here, .. what's any damn different there".
I guess they did get some blood work back and stool sample stuff and nothing there .. no evidence of any problems there. They also heard back from the doc on the CT scan done .. and the only thing there, .. radiologist saw some *thickness/hardening* of an area there in the colon ... also found in a rectal exam done. (oh how pleasant, NOT).
But anyway .. the only recommendation, which doc is aware of MIL's disdain for same, .. a colonscopy .. said without that, no way to really know. Could be just scar tissue from Diverticulitis .. could be something in the way of a tumor .. not known.
SIL said that MIL did say .. that if she has to, she supposes she'd submit for a colonoscopy but doesn't want to. (I don't know anyone that WANTS TO DO SUCH).
I asked SIL, "but what would be the outcome of same?, I mean if they found a tumor, she can't do chemo and radiation and that sorta thing".
SIL said she asked the doc that, and the doc said that if that was the case, it would be removed ... she guesses .. she doesn't know .. surgically. Does that mean chemo/radiation, ..??....she didn't know, I don't guess she asked.
No evidence of anything that has metastasized.
SIL was busy trying to get with the hospital on this end, to have them forward results of previous CT scans done .. same issues on this end .. so there can be comparison.
So that was today's news.
I do feel sorry for SIL in that, I know what she is enduring. All too well. But it's her turn.
I have every reason to believe your MIL will be fine no matter the diagnosis.
I can't imagine the fun (NOT!)of trying to get MIL prepped for a colonoscopy!!!
She apparently has a history of diverticulitis and if this is the cause of the lump it could rupture and give her septicemia which is worse case scenario.
The first decision to make is what MIL wants done if it is a cancer diagnosis. If she refuses surgery R/T & Chemo don't put her through the colonoscopy.
Ask if it is possible to do a needle biopsy and get a diagnosis that way.
Face the fact that surgery may not cure the diarrhea.
Make managing the diarrhea as easy as possible even if it means having a commode by her chair and another by the bed. Toilet her every few hours whether she wants to go or not. None of this is pleasant but then neither is leaving a brown trail through the house. Tell her to call SIL whenever she feels the urge. The worst explosions often happen while trying to remove underwear. SIL can just rip the depends down the sides and MIL can sit much faster.
As far as diet is concerned, if it was me I would just eat a little of what I fancied but keep away from anything fatty, including milk products. Do not bring in take out it is all laden with salt, sugar and fat and keep the caffeine to a minimum.
Ask for a referral to a dietitian MIL is not the first elderly woman with this kind of problem. getting old is not a fun part of life so it is important to minimize the bad parts and enjoy what is left.
FWIW--stress alone can cause relentless diarrhea. IBS, which is pretty hard to really definitively dx, can have that s/e. My daughter has had grouchy bowel syndrome since she as a kid--anything stressful went right to her guts. Still does.
Flying anywhere with 3 kids? Forget about it. She's in the lavatory 80% of any flight.
Luckily she's married to a GI doc, and he manages her guts pretty well, but she cannot control the stressors in her life--such as a hubby who works 100 hrs a week, a 4 month old baby who'd rather party all night than sleep and let HER sleep. And living 3000 miles from the nearest family!
MIL was supremely unhappy about going to SIL's--so much so you have a feeling she may have started "Chitapalooza" on her own just to kibosh the trip. She is undeniably under a lot of stress, now she's getting "TOO MUCH" care!
The likelihood that surgery on an 88 yo, very ill woman are about nil. I think at this point, it's a fishing expedition and trying to figure out how to tx what she has so she can live with it. If this is cancer, well, it is what it is. SO treatable in the early stages and so awful when not caught until too late. I have lost several men friends who died from colon cancer simply because they refused a colonoscopy at any point in life. Once the cancer has ruptured the walls of the colon--there's no pain.
What a delightful visit this must be--but SIL kind of revels in this kind of stuff. In one way, you can truthfully say "Yeah, I get it. I've been dealing with this for the last 15 years"...and know you truly did all you could.
SIL reports that the two antibiotics the doc has put her on, seems to be improving things.
Kinda confounding, because as I asked SIL, "Well she had DH go and get a refill of one of those here, .. before you even came to retrieve her, .. so she could start on that, .. to help things get better, .. wonder why it didn't help".
SIL's answer: "Oh she only took it like one day and then began to wonder if she should even be taking it, so she didn't take it anymore".
GRRRRRR!!!!!!! Oh but stop the presses, and go to the drug store to get that refill that I'm not going to even take.
I can only hope with every fiber of me .. that SIL sees it .. what I see, .. this is a person who does not need to live alone ever again .. amen!
So they have her on two antibiotics right now, one the Cipro that she'd had DH run to the drug store to get a refill of, that she didn't take, the other Flagil or something like that .. and it seems to be improving things.
SIL says if the improvement continues, they'll likely drop it and not pursue it any further, and chalk it up to Diverticulitis flare up. (until next time, is my thought on it all, and there will be a next time, she's so prone for this).
SIL says she had to take the dog to the vet, bleeding from the hind end. I don't know the result of that, but it wasn't anything serious apparently.
I said to her, "Won't everybody just get well already!".
Her response: "I know right, .. just what I needed, the dog to now have a problem".
Life with the aged, dogs and humans both.
MIL with her precious poochy that is her life's blood and more important to her than the air she breathes, but she is ill equipped to see about the dog and his health maladies herself.
I think I need to fire up that "go to" sentence again, .. and repeat it often .. "Clearly she just can't live alone anymore, ever again". Lather/rinse/repeat, often.
(sigh)
Wow, do I remember CG for my FIL who was in and out of the hospital so many times I cannot count. He'd get dxed with the same darn thing every time (pneumonia) he'd stay a day or two, maybe, he'd come home with scrips for Albuterol, Levaquin, Diflucan and cough syrup. I'd dutifully fill these scrips, take them home and he'd dutifully refuse to take them.
During what turned out to be his last hospital stay, I went out to clean his condo. Moved the recliner and underneath were piles of pills--hundreds of them, I'd fathom.
Are you guys doing anything while MIL is gone to facilitate her moving into BETTER conditions? Or is she at SIL's simply to NOT to be in FL during hurricane season and then she'll return, healthy or not.....or are you making strides in finding ALF? I know it's not YOUR problem, but you know DH is living in the now and likely hasn't given any of this a single thought.
And have you let everyone know you are OFF THE BOARD as far as future caregiving is concerned? Maybe I got that wrong, but my impression was that you were stepping OUT of the CG business completely. MIL comes back to the same house, same weird set up with the laundry, alarm systems, etc and she won't be stronger nor better. She's going to need more help than before and we all saw how badly that went.
I know I shouldn't pick that scab, but I can't help it. SIL is really getting a rotten, yet honest and up close version of what you've been saying/doing for years. She cannot HONESTLY think MIL can return home with any QOL and safety? She probably can't stop twirling long enough to make a decision.
I hope you are enjoying the little break. I know there was no real time frame st out for this, and frankly, I thought MIL would get to IL, last a week and be picking at all and sundry to get her back home! Maybe she is and you just aren't getting the millions of texts to say so---
Yep, keep those boundaries!! This ain't over by a long shot.