I've posted before about in-law care-giving. Aged mother in law, lives in same town.
We are at the tail end of a visit from sister in law from several states away. Sister in law has been here for 3 weeks caring for her mother. A much welcome respite.
It had been discussed, prior to her arrival here on the scene, she would be talking it over with her mother, to try and get her mom to come up to her home, for a stay of maybe a few months.
This, in my opinion, is absolutely essential, as I am expecting twin grand-children, due in about 1 month (if they don't come sooner, as is the case a lot of times with multiples pregnancies). The expectant mother also lives locally here, and has a 4 year old daughter. I will be on that front, helping .. as much as is needed. And not on the front with mother in law and care-giving, and have made that as obvious and apparent as I know how to make it. It would be great if mother in law would agree to go to her daughter's home (several states away) for a period of a few months .. and allow me the latitude to put my energies where I want them to be, on my daughter who will have had a c-section .. and my grand-daughter (4 years old) and new twin babies.
Nothing doing. Mother in law has dug in her heels, and will not hear of it, going to stay with her daughter for any period of time.
What are her reasons?
In mother in law's defense ... her daughter ... I don't even know how to describe it. I will say that when her daughter comes here to visit, she all but breathes for her mother and if she could find a way to do that, she'd do that too. She is the most nervous nelly, never sit down - ever ... worry wart, do everything, all the time .. person that I've ever encountered.
A great example, as I was taking her to the airport yesterday for her departure, . I reached into the fridge to grab myself a bottled water and shut the fridge and turned to walk away, as I've done for all of my 50 plus years living on this earth .. and she said to me, "Oh make sure that fridge shut". WTH???? Like I don't know how to shut a fridge? That's just a small, very small slice of what she is ... how she is.
She is so very hyper-vigilant, seeing to every minute details down to it's finest most minuscule point, fine tooth comb, questioning every point along the way, "should we do thus and so, but maybe if we do thus and so, then such and such will happen, maybe we should do it thus and so .. but then so and so might happen, maybe we shouldn't do thus and so, but do "x" "y" and "z" instead, but if we don't do it that way then ..........", on and on and on and on it goes. And usually in hyper warp speed, as to every single friggin thing.
If her mother moans .. "what's wrong mother?, why did you moan, are you alright?".
Mother: "Yes, I'm fine, I was just sighing out loud".
Sister: "Why did you sigh? Are you hurting, are you sure you're alright, why are you sighing what's the matter?"
Mother: "For God's sake __________________, I was just sighing, .. calm down, I'm fine".
Sister: "Are you sure, .. because if something is wrong you need to tell me".
Mother: "Everything is fine, I'm fine".
Sister: "Are you sure, we did a lot yesterday, did we do too much, maybe we shouldn't of gone to two doctors in one day .. was that too much for you, are you too tired now, maybe we need to move those other doctor appointments so we won't have two in one day, is that too much for you, for one day .. is that why you were sighing .. what's wrong, are you sure you're alright".
Hopefully that kinda gives a little bit of a snapshot of what goes on when sister is in the ring directing things.
So in mother in law's defense.. I do get it, why she wouldn't be chomping at the bit to go to her daughter's home.
BUT ....
The only experience she has with her daughter, in the last years as mother in law has aged and been unable to go anywhere much, has been the daughter coming here, periodically, for periods of about 3 weeks at a stretch. When her daughter comes here, she moves heaven and earth for her mother and then some, and doesn't sit down, doesn't stop .. the WHOLE ENTIRE TIME.
Is there a possibility maybe (as I said to mother in law, when she expressed that isn't happening - talking to me - her going to her daughters .. ever) .. could it be possible that maybe if you would go to where she lives .. she'd be more busy managing her own life in that setting than your's and she would get out of your backside .. and not be as hyper-drive-vigilant as you experience in her, when she's here, could that be possible.
The daughter is retired, lives several states away. Does come here, generally, every few months .. and stays for a period of about 3 weeks at a stretch. I wish I could make a list of everything the daughter did when here this last time, but it would take up the whole character allotment:
Hopin' and wishin' on the part of MIL and SIL isn't going to make it happen.
I really don't think you have to worry about MIL returning to FL.
The "plan" is MIL returns to FL in December sometime, hale and hearty and ready to live alone and be 100% compliant in her own care.
The reality: she's actually WORSE off than when she went to IL,. Playing fast and loose with the Lasix--(my hubby had 3 weeks of swollen ankles as a "warning" of his impending heart attacks. 3 weeks. Hubby never was on Lasix b/c he never saw a dr until we ambulanced him to the ER. He was in full cardiac arrest. The 2nd heart attack was not so "dramatic" but still....and he has since been 100% compliant in his care.)
The fact MIL can pull a muscle doing absolutely nothing is telling. She's weaker. She's not doing PT, she's sitting on her behind letting SIL run the hamster wheel.
I find it personally very helpful to write down (NOT TEXT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) a letter to SIL outlining what you will and will not do should MIL return to FL. Basically, your days of care giving are OVER. Make that clear. Abundantly clear. Then stick to your guns. If SIL thinks there is even a slight chink in your armor she will pounce on it. I don't know if DH would sign such a letter, showing his support.
You know, most elders do want to die peacefully in their own homes. And people in hell want ice water. We usually DO NOT GET what we want. We adapt to what we get. MIL is not that special. She's running, what, 5 or 6 people into the ground. Seriously, the Queen of England can do more for herself than MIL.
The sad truth is, MIL is going to fall, fail or something and will probably end her days, living in IL.
Dorker, I do honestly think you would find this less stressful and frustrating if you leave it be. MIL ceased being your problem quite some time ago, now.
Sure hope you are settling into your more peaceful life!
Just some thoughts to chime in here, as to CHF. As you may remember, my mom had this too, and for me, educating myself on the condition helped so much, and I wish I had done that as soon as I got wind of her condition instead of when things started going really wonko. (During the final year of my mom's illness, I followed your saga here. It was a very trying year for me, and mom succumbed to it in December.)
For myself and my sisters, and even my mom herself, I found that the doctors did NOT really educate us about her condition at all, or even what to expect, and I wonder if SIL and your husband might benefit from some education too, along with more info on her particular status in regards to her CHF. (Most of her other problems appear to be minor health annoyances, but the CHF is a condition that does ultimately lead to Heart Failure - end of the line... it is like terminal cancer, but slower in a way.) My mom had few other problems besides that, but her med regime maintained her as long as it could, until the meds were no longer able. I have since learned that about 5 years is the average after diagnosis, which is about how long my mom survived with CHF.
I also learned that weakness is a MAJOR part of CHF. When they say they just can't, it's true... they really can't. There are some days worse than others, but the weakness doesn't really improve.
Now that MIL is walker dependent, doubtful that she will ever walk without it again. SIL will need to get a transport wheel chair if she wants to take her out anywhere! That is what I got. Sure makes it faster and more pleasant. My mom felt embarrassed in it for about 3 trips, then reached acceptance and even enjoyed outings that way.
Anyway - might help if the family asks the doctor outright some hard questions, like:
Exactly what stage is her heart failure in, and what are some general expectations and adaptations that should be made to accommodate her?
Perhaps with more understanding of the condition, SIL and husband may be more realistic. It would not be impossible for your SIL to keep her comfortable in SIL's home, with planning and respite, if that is what SIL prefers to make MIL happy. But the wild goose chase for all the other minor ailments is a bit absurd, and SIL needs to come to terms with CHF, that it is a progressive condition.
(It sounds like MIL has reached stage 3 CHF)
Of course Dorker isn't going to get SIL and H to ask the dr. the hard questions re MIL's CHF. And she isn't going to get SIL to insist on the Lasix. The course of MIL's CHF isn't Dorker's to manage, much as she might manage it differently if it were HER mother.
But, really, who here thinks that MIL is ever going to make it back to FL to live "independently"?
And wasn't it SIL's plan to come back with MIL and stay for the winter months, and then they would head back to IL? I wonder where B. fits in all of these plans, though, because to me he is getting (unfairly) shoved aside.
This isn't foreign to them.
He didn't live long enough that he was unable to ambulate without DME's and unable to even garner the daily stamina to dress himself. But he did slow to the degree he slept intermittently through most days and he very much paced himself and any activity level.
It was evident ... it was talked about at the time ... discussed with MD's. He was hospitalized on occasion to bring the edema in check.
The only difference I can see ... his CHF brought on by heart attacks.
MIL hasn't had any heart attacks.
Maybe in that ... a keen ability to deny CHF exists. Not realistic IMO but whatever.
Seems SIL in particular .. denial is the flavor of the day every day. DH ..???... I don't know that he's engaged enough in the finite detail to have much of any opinion. Opting instead to default to popular opinion.
I can't change any of that.
Maybe also why I find it so frustrating. We were down this road with their dad ... and cardio docs and meds and such .. me on the front there too. Education and information a part of that scene. This isn't some disease that's obscure and little known about it. We've been here before.
Their dad died in 2003 (botched colonoscopy). But all these symptoms ... it's been weathered in his CHF ..
So to act like it doesn't exist is just complete frustration.
No she doesn't have edema at present but that's likely due to severe diet restriction and the fact she is more able to elevate her legs in her present setting more so than when she lives alone.
But what do I know?
Ive been fighting some sort of abdominal issue for a year now. Turns out it’s abdominal issueS. Saw a surgeon a few days ago for one and am having another colonoscopy in a few days for the other.
Having always been The Fixer in my life and in the lives of my loved ones for whom I have some - or all - responsibility to care for - calm, dignified acceptance has never been an approach that I am familiar with. Not that I am or have ever been as diligent as SIL is - but still, it’s always been planning for what’s next, what’s better, what hasn’t been explored. Often looking at the situation(s) from multiple points of view.
It’s exhausting. And at last - I am exhausted. Go figure. Just when it’s time to “fix” - for me.
So, this morning I find myself in unfamiliar territory. Deciding there isn’t anything I can do about anything - at least not until the colonoscopy is over - and maybe not even at that point. So what point is there in worrying about it all today. Right now. Does it make any sense to spend my every waking moment planning three different plans of attack - when I have no idea as to what I’m really dealing with?
No. Not really.
For the first time in following As The Stomach Turns - the MIL saga, I finally understand what Countymouse has been saying for quite some time - STOP WORRYING ABOUT IT. Until you actually know what’s actually going to be the next definitive step in MILs situation - what’s the point?
Hate to hear you are facing tests and the dreaded results.
Yep, we the fixers have to come at things from every angle and have a plan for every possible scenario and have a plan worked out in advance for each possible scenario. Guilty.
A few years ago I faced a battery of tests, results, delays, retest, delays. I wish I had all the hours and days I lost not to mention the years I probably worried off my life during that 3 month span of time. I was lucky. It was nothing.
You have something going on. I hope you get to the bottom of it and it’s nothing too serious.
I will pass on what I was told. “Don’t go there til you have to go there”. I hope you stomach that advice better than I did. I just said endless cuss words in my mind when I was given that advice.
I’m older, more tired, hopefully wiser, and think I could follow the above advice now. I don’t know.
Anyway, sure hope you are okay. Let us know how you are doing.
Admittedly, it is not yet a problem that you can make any informed decisions about and, so, it would be better to defer any effortful thought until you have more 'knowns' to work with.
I can think of a small handful of occasions when I have been in horrible suspense, waiting for results, waiting and seeing, waiting for other people's decisions. If you have displacement activities that work for you, good; but at least twice I just gave up and indulged in really helpless, concentrated worry until so worn out I was basically bored.
Sure, I may or may not have justified cause for worry, planning and plotting- when the time comes. As will Dorker, if and when MIL returns to Florida with the expectation by SIL and therefore dh - that MIL will “manage” on her own. It’s the “if and when” that I focus on in my own current situation and in Dorkers as well.
Likely, I’ll have a few more “knowns” in a week. Dorkers “knowns” are probably still a good month or more away. Think of all the wasted time and energy given to something that may or may not happen - whether it be a week or a months worth.
For a lot of folks this whole concept of not festering is a no brainer- for me its a mysterious new day.
For Dorker? Yep. Got it - in theory. But practice? It’s tough when the subject is a loved one. And tougher still - in my opinion - when the actual decision makers act in a way that is completely opposite of what you would do. If you had any real say in it all - which Dorker says that she doesn’t.
Which brings it all back around to worry and fester OR to really and truly letting it go.
Until, of course - when the knowns are known.
Will keep you and your health issues in my thoughts and prayers. I'm sorry you're having to go through this.
I wish I knew how to turn off that switch "worrying". I am the President of the Worriers Anonymous. Is there a 12 step program? As DH has often said about me, .. "if you're not worried about something, you worried what is it you forgot to worry about!". Probably true.
SIL is terribly ill at the moment with strep throat that has all but sidelined her, fever that won't abate, horribly sore throat, and lymph nodes, .. so forth. Ironic that the very husband MIL has no use for, is now who is having to help her. Him now having been brought back to center, with the Bipolar disorder.
SIL reporting Chitapalooza has returned again. No, it's not known why.
Another day, of "As the Stomach Turns".
If there were a 12 step Worriers Anonymous, I'd join too lol. I think with my mom I too have in my head like 2-3 scenarios or Plans A, B and C for most situations. What if she does X as opposed to Y or Z, etc. Then worrying about each one. Distraction works well for me sometimes, sometimes not.
I hope SIL and MIL both get to feeling better. On the positive side, at least you're not having to worry about the stinky mess with MIL's diarrhea. I remember the underwear stew. Yuck!
Hi! My name is Rain and I’m a worrier.
According to my father I come by it naturally. Daddy was a worrier and multi-planner as he said his mother was. Prior to grandma, we don’t know as my father never knew any of her relatives and she never spoke of them. Grandma was born in London and married a Scot she met during WWI. Seems that was unforgivable to both their families due to the long standing animosity between England and Scotland - derived from The Battle of Culloden in 1746. Guess I come by my grudge holding naturally as well.
How I envy those who either worry in appropriate proportion or never worry at all. My two closest friends aren’t worriers. When I asked one about how she does it she said “I say a prayer and then release it to the universe. I trust that everything will work out.” Seriously?!?
Anyhoo - sorry to hear SIL is sick. I wonder if she is wearing herself down with stress - to where she will begin to fall prey more easily to injury and illness- isn’t it a bit unusual for someone her age to get strep throat- especially with no rugrats in the house?
And bil - this guy is pretty amazing. Cuz if anyone is getting the crap end of the stick undeservedly- it’s him. Maybe MIL will gain some understanding as to why her daughter stays married to him and that contrary to her previous notion - SIL actually has it pretty good in the Lifes Mate catagory. Nah - probably not.
But it not yours to worry about, Dorker. Just say a prayer for them and send it out to the universe. It will all work out!
Love that woman, wish she was still with us. Sigh.
I have to suspect that when people say, unless they're terribly unassuming about it, that they've 'given it to God/the universe/the ever circling currents of time' it must surely cause everyone else in the room to slide their eyes at them. Nice tip if you can pull it off, though, eh.
Sorry SIL is ill--but luckily strep throat is quickly fixed!
The bowel issues--this is a sad and horrible way to "go", but it sounds like this is going to be her final illness. She'll become weaker and weaker as she no doubt is not eating enough to keep her alive! She possibly is paying the price for mis-managing meds for so long.
At the EOL of both my grandmothers and my dad and FIL, they ALL had chronic diarrhea. Nothing to be done for it--just let them eat what they can. It's just the shutting down of the body's systems. (I know I 've said this, but my SIL is a GI doc and he sees this all the time. ALL THE TIME.) Bodies simply wear out.
I am very glad she's not with you guys. You couldn't possibly handle what she's going through with one day a week care.
I hope you're at peace with her--Again, I am so impressed by your enormous capability to love. That's wonderful.
Take care....and let nature take its course, There's probably not anything they can do to "fix" this.
My mother suffered from chronic diarrhea the last several months of her life as well. Up until the point when she forgot how to eat. Sigh.
The first cause of death listed on my mothers death certificate was “malnutrition”. Obviously, the not eating played a big part. But no doubt the chronic diarrhea had a hand it in. Everything passed through prior to any nutritional absorption.
Yes - this very well could be what calls The Big Fluffy Cloud on over to Illinois.
SIL said there's one last test .. some lab something or other ... they knew would be a lengthy wait for results. Don't know what that lab test was. Said she called the doc yesterday and results were in but doc would need to read them first and nurse only indicated ... whatever mysterious test this was ... numbers appear to be out of range for normal but they'd need to wait to talk to doc.
SIL's dx ... she thinks IBS.
Who can say.
The doc, obviously.
My cursory Google search about anything IBS ... it's not typical for an elderly to get that dx. Generally folks under 50 years old.
I tend to agree with what's said here. I happen to think this Chitapalooza scene has been more ever present than we've been lead to believe and that maybe this is going to be yet another malady of old age that further weakens her.
I guess we will see.
SIL reporting in yesterday afternoon she'd been back to the doc, z-pack gone now, and what was strep has now migrated to a sinus infection. Doc put her on a different antibiotic.
She said that it's all, her words, "just hell here, we're in hell", .. I guess between her being sidelined with illness and MIL and her trials.
Then last night she called and said the antibiotic .. she'd taken one and had an awful reaction .. lightheaded, nausea, diarrhea. Said she called the doc and they advised to discontinue that specific med and would call in a different med today.
Just in talking with her, she said she is trying to figure the way forward to reintroduce the Lasix .. didn't say why she thought it was needed (other than it's been removed from MIL's regiment of meds .. and maybe it's thought it needs to be put back into the regiment, no edema really to speak of). Said she'd been in contact with MIL's cardio doc here .. and advised that they should weigh daily and if 2 lbs or more heavier, then administer Lasix. But as SIL put it (and I know this to be true) "so hard to weigh her, she can't be still, she's so wobbly and wants to topple over". Most of us can stand in one spot indefinitely if need be. MIL cannot. Standing in one spot, she begins to wobble over, and lean and she will fall, if she doesn't hold onto something sturdy, so how to weigh someone that can't stand ..
Said the doc is wanting .. as regards MIL .. to figure out the Chitapalooze scene . he knows she doesn't want a colonoscopy .. but .. wants to do a sigmoid whatever .. less invasive I guess. But that would require an enema .. and MIL ill equipped to handle that kinda thing at home .. so doc checking to see if they can do all that at the hospital. I guess, outpatient.
Sounds like it's just hell there, as SIL put it.
She mentioned having to get well, as her mom is to go to knee doc on Monday for injections .. and then later in the week, the neurology doc to discuss the neuropathy.
(here's where my gears grind on this topic)
ME: "When is your daughter due back from her vacation?, sounds like you could really use her help".
SIL: "Sometime next week, I gotta run, I've just gotten back in here, and my friend has dropped by to bring dinner, I'll talk to ya later"
(((I know them, .. all of them .. she will never call on prima donna daughter to lift a finger to help, but as you all know, doesn't hesitate one moment here on this end, to enlist one of our daughters to the front lines. Grinds my gears. But oh well, I guess she isn't sick enough or she'd do that .. not my ship to steer)))
So then this morning (DH is out of town) .. the phone rings, at 7:15. That's 6:15 for her. It was SIL. She was driving herself to the ER, per instruction from doc. Blood in stool.
So that's where she is at present. And I guess they will try to determine what's going on with that issue. Said she left her husband there, .. and drove herself .. because someone has to stay there to deal with MIL.
Asked that I call MIL in a bit, give it a bit .. to let their household wake up .. as she was gone from there, and everyone still in bed, and MIL not aware of this latest flap in the whole saga.
Asked that I call there in a bit, .. just to reassure MIL .. it's just precautionary (tell her that anyway, even though we don't know really what's at the root of this) .. and try to smooth what will be her ruffled nerves when she awakens and finds her daughter has driven herself to the ER.
So I did that. Talked to MIL briefly .. and she is okay .. as okay as MIL ever is. She mentioned her pounding head .. which we've also talked about before in the doc's office, .. she has these episodes of a terrible headache in her right temple, and it's been said that's where the ongoing microbleed is .. maybe more damage .. who knows.
That's back when that doc attending MD at the hospital stay found that in the brain scan and recommendation to follow up with neuro . and of course, SIL saw fit that wasn't necessary. And so it was never looked into further.
MIL complaining that her head hurts, by her righ temple .. and when I inquired, she said only "you know, this happens from time to time, I get these God awful headaches that just linger for days ...".
I responded: "You remember, that neuro doc had wanted that looked into, evidence of microbleed in that area of your brain ..".
MIL's only response: "We'll just add that to the list of everything else that's wrong with me, there is just no end to it all Dorker".
With that, we talked more about the situation with SIL and I assured it could be just as simple as the fact that med gave her diahrea she has irritated her backside .. and nothing serious. That seemed to help MIL to feel better and not so worried.
MIL asked (and I'm sure they'd be all about it if I would do so) .. "So are you just dying to come up this way and help us all out here".
My response: "I am actually working some this week, with the flu clinics that are up and running this time of year, but hey .. SIL's daughter should be returning from her vacation, sounds like you guys could use some help for sure, maybe she'll pitch in some".
MIL: "HAHA..........fat chance that will happen".
With that, we finished our call and so will wait to see what's said on the issue with SIL in the ER at present.
If not, perhaps start there before they start picking an orifice to shove a scope up, don't you think?
MIL asked (and I'm sure they'd be all about it if I would do so) .. "So are you just dying to come up this way and help us all out here".
That was a little joke. The correct response would have been a little chuckle. Why were you giving serious answers to a silly question? You don't need other commitments to explain your polite refusal of that suggestion. You are not going to IL for the simple reason that wild horses couldn't drag you there.
I wouldn't be horribly worried about SIL. Blood in the stool--esp if it's bright red, is probably the sign of a little tear in the area around the rectum... or an irritation. B/c it's the weekend, all her drs office would do is tell her to hit the ER or wait until Monday which I am sure SIL can't do. Wait, I mean. She's a walking raw nerve.
As far as the Lasix--if MIL still has this diarrhea, adding a water pill to her regimen is going to dehydrate her further. She def. needs to weigh in with a dr and not play games with MIL's meds (I know, too late).
IBS doesn't act the way you're describing MIL's gut issues and it's almost never dxed for someone in their late 80's. I still maintain she probably did this to herself by taking all her meds very haphazardly (without food, they can ruin your guts) and just simply the fact she is old and we wear out.
A sigmoidoscopy is not that invasive. They won't do a colonoscopy on someone so old unless there is a really good reason to do so....and she doesn't fit the mold. And truthfully? Even IF they find something, it won't change the outcome, nor will a magic pill make all better. She's too weak for any kind of procedure---it's so sad that SIL is unable to see this and perhaps obtain palliative care for MIL. Doesn't mean she's dying, but it can help greatly with the aches and pains.
I know SIL's type. She's trying to keep MIL alive at all costs and not looking at the big picture of dignity in dying. So sad.
The way your SIL runs around trying so hard to "fix" a sick old woman is the EXACT OPPOSITE of what I want from my kids, when I am like that. This whole post should become a book! On what NOT to do.
Hope SIL gets back on her feet soon. Poor BIL....I hope SIL doesn’t get admitted😳. But, not your problem.
On another note, keep an eye on the Tropics. There’s a system that seems to be headed in your direction by way of the gulf. Right now looks like just a rain event or Tropical Storm at best but still several days out.
They are keeping SIL overnight, .. going to check for C-diff ... maybe from taking antibiotics without a probiotic ..????.....removing all bacteria, even good bacteria. I kinda don't think that it's c-diff .. she only had this bad reaction as of last night .. when taking the new rx'd antibiotic .. (yes, she'd been on z pack the prior, . for the Strep, and then it turned into a sinus infection and another antibiotic rx'd .. one that she had a bad reaction to). It just seems to me she'd of had to have been sicker, .. longer .. for it to be C-diff. Not sure what else they are checking for.
Yes, MIL and here gut issues, and the gastro doc .. they have checked stool samples and nothing came back with any issue there.
I did ask again, (no response as of yet, and it's been like 30 mins, where .. before .. any exchange of dialogue was instantaneous) .. I asked, "So your daughter is due back tomorrow, sounds like she'll be pressed into service helping on the front there".
No answer.
And no, I don't know whether that daughter would be useless. Nobody ever asks her to do a damn thing.