I've posted before about in-law care-giving. Aged mother in law, lives in same town.
We are at the tail end of a visit from sister in law from several states away. Sister in law has been here for 3 weeks caring for her mother. A much welcome respite.
It had been discussed, prior to her arrival here on the scene, she would be talking it over with her mother, to try and get her mom to come up to her home, for a stay of maybe a few months.
This, in my opinion, is absolutely essential, as I am expecting twin grand-children, due in about 1 month (if they don't come sooner, as is the case a lot of times with multiples pregnancies). The expectant mother also lives locally here, and has a 4 year old daughter. I will be on that front, helping .. as much as is needed. And not on the front with mother in law and care-giving, and have made that as obvious and apparent as I know how to make it. It would be great if mother in law would agree to go to her daughter's home (several states away) for a period of a few months .. and allow me the latitude to put my energies where I want them to be, on my daughter who will have had a c-section .. and my grand-daughter (4 years old) and new twin babies.
Nothing doing. Mother in law has dug in her heels, and will not hear of it, going to stay with her daughter for any period of time.
What are her reasons?
In mother in law's defense ... her daughter ... I don't even know how to describe it. I will say that when her daughter comes here to visit, she all but breathes for her mother and if she could find a way to do that, she'd do that too. She is the most nervous nelly, never sit down - ever ... worry wart, do everything, all the time .. person that I've ever encountered.
A great example, as I was taking her to the airport yesterday for her departure, . I reached into the fridge to grab myself a bottled water and shut the fridge and turned to walk away, as I've done for all of my 50 plus years living on this earth .. and she said to me, "Oh make sure that fridge shut". WTH???? Like I don't know how to shut a fridge? That's just a small, very small slice of what she is ... how she is.
She is so very hyper-vigilant, seeing to every minute details down to it's finest most minuscule point, fine tooth comb, questioning every point along the way, "should we do thus and so, but maybe if we do thus and so, then such and such will happen, maybe we should do it thus and so .. but then so and so might happen, maybe we shouldn't do thus and so, but do "x" "y" and "z" instead, but if we don't do it that way then ..........", on and on and on and on it goes. And usually in hyper warp speed, as to every single friggin thing.
If her mother moans .. "what's wrong mother?, why did you moan, are you alright?".
Mother: "Yes, I'm fine, I was just sighing out loud".
Sister: "Why did you sigh? Are you hurting, are you sure you're alright, why are you sighing what's the matter?"
Mother: "For God's sake __________________, I was just sighing, .. calm down, I'm fine".
Sister: "Are you sure, .. because if something is wrong you need to tell me".
Mother: "Everything is fine, I'm fine".
Sister: "Are you sure, we did a lot yesterday, did we do too much, maybe we shouldn't of gone to two doctors in one day .. was that too much for you, are you too tired now, maybe we need to move those other doctor appointments so we won't have two in one day, is that too much for you, for one day .. is that why you were sighing .. what's wrong, are you sure you're alright".
Hopefully that kinda gives a little bit of a snapshot of what goes on when sister is in the ring directing things.
So in mother in law's defense.. I do get it, why she wouldn't be chomping at the bit to go to her daughter's home.
BUT ....
The only experience she has with her daughter, in the last years as mother in law has aged and been unable to go anywhere much, has been the daughter coming here, periodically, for periods of about 3 weeks at a stretch. When her daughter comes here, she moves heaven and earth for her mother and then some, and doesn't sit down, doesn't stop .. the WHOLE ENTIRE TIME.
Is there a possibility maybe (as I said to mother in law, when she expressed that isn't happening - talking to me - her going to her daughters .. ever) .. could it be possible that maybe if you would go to where she lives .. she'd be more busy managing her own life in that setting than your's and she would get out of your backside .. and not be as hyper-drive-vigilant as you experience in her, when she's here, could that be possible.
The daughter is retired, lives several states away. Does come here, generally, every few months .. and stays for a period of about 3 weeks at a stretch. I wish I could make a list of everything the daughter did when here this last time, but it would take up the whole character allotment:
Veronica: Nice to hear the perspective of someone in the shoes of being cared for, thanks for chiming in.
They have not yet moved MIL and apparently her room-mate is of foreign descent and babbles incessantly .. in her native language .. non-stop .. seems confused .. and disoriented .. and .. complains all the time that she wants to go home (the only words she knows in english apparently). I guess .. moving her at this point, would put her in closer proximity .. at least thus far, as to empty beds available, to the man down the hall that also yells incessantly. So she hasn't been moved yet, unfortunately.
Such is life.
Had to kinda talk SIL off the ledge a bit ago, while in the grocery store (me, shopping). SIL ready to take her mom home .. or approaching that idea anyway .. feels so bad for her mom, many concerns. One of which is .. she is just here getting weaker and weaker and weaker .. and another one being.... there's no rest here .. between all the folks that come and go all the time for vitals and whatever .. and the yelling patients .. there's no rest. She has a headache .. again .. and is trying to sleep but her room mate keeps yelling out all the time, the man down the hall is yelling out all the time ..
((Damn .. if this were a younger person, they could give her a sedative to help her rest better)).
But as I told SIL .. "you can't do that, what's best for your mom here?, .. really, in the end .. that she go home to your house, where it's quiet and she can maybe sleep ... yea .. for sure ... she could sleep .. but .. how's that gonna help her .. she needs to stay the course of this 3 day stay so that they can get her into a rehab site .. and there .. they can work with her .. and hopefully if there's any ability at all, to come back to any degree . that's where it can be found out .. and not only that it enlists the insight of the professionals into all this . not just you .. let them get a read on all this .. and figure what's best, you're not a professional at this.. they are .. and you can't do all that she needs ... you can't monitor her around the clock and help her to do the things she needs to do, if she can do it ... just be her daughter and be her advocate .. but don't undo what you've done so far by taking her outta there .. let's at least give this a try .. in all of her decline over the last few years .. she hasn't had one single stint in a rehab site for any help post-discharge anywhere .. not once ..let's give it a try at least. And talk to them there, see if PT can come a couple of times a day to get her out of bed and walk, at least to the door and back, if not maybe out into the hallway just a bit and back .. she needs to, if she's able, to get up and move . not just lay there .. day in and day out ...
SO .. that seemed to work, at least for the moment .. her thanking me, for talking her off the ledge .. and that she feels so alone and this feels like an enormous responsibility to see to .. that she so appreciates my input and that I always seem to have good questions to ask, and some good suggestions.
In a sense, I feel bad for her. I know that DH can't hop on a plane and get there to do much .. he's of less help than I'd be if I did so. But I'm not going to do it. She has her daughter (who yes, works for a living .. but that daughter seems to be able to be off work an awful lot for whatever recreational pursuit she deems necessary .. so .. maybe that daughter can take a day or three or whatever to help .. in some of this if need be). She has her husband .. and yes .. his
She has her husband, and yes .. his mental issues do preclude him from being a lot of help.
He's the sort that if you ask him to call a doc and ask a question .. then if they answer that question . he's done. He doens't then follow up .. maybe the answer they give you .. maybe it begs more question .. he doesn't seem to be able to do that kinda thing. Very black and white with him.
BUT ............she has in him, something I didn't have when I used to man this ship ... she is at the hospital attending to her mom and seeing the various MD's passing along in this .. but her husband is at home .. manning the dog .. manning the house .. anything else on that front that's needed.
So, no .. no no . I have no intention of looking up a flight to hop on up that way. Not gonna happen.
She's on her own .. other than her daughter and her husband .. I'm not going to be there to sit bedside as she is doing .. and she would welcome it if I were to suggest same. I am, .. (tooting my own horn) the only other person besides herself, . not even her mom herself .. that can navigate all this .. and ask the appropriate questions .. and know the history and so forth. Not even her daughter .. who is a sharp cookie herself.
So in a sense, I do feel bad for her, . and I know this is some tough tough stuff she's having to weather. But again .. she made her bed . in all of her years of gadgets and whirligigs and tests and procedures, and pills and this and that and so forth .. when maybe the better approach (at least IMHO) would've been looking at the avenue of getting her mom agreeable to AL, .. and in place already, the pieces as to PT .. at her disposal .. social engagement .. at her disposal .. med management . if even at an extra cost .. at her disposal .. so many things.
She say that her mom's feet/legs are beginning to swell. I don't know why, didn't ask.
I did ask her about the prior EF #'s and if she's checked any of that and she said prior #'s are the same or thereabout .. and so I asked her is she aware of how her mom got a dx of CHF with that EF? No, she isn't, said she'd ask the docs there. I did a cursory look at Dr. Google (have to stay off that and not play doc) .. but apparently one can still have a dx of CHF and have a normal EF .. haven't yet looked far enough to read about .. how .. how is it dx'd if not for a low EF? I don't know the answer to that, but apparently it is dx'd ... at times .. even with a normal EF.
I dunno .. I'm not a doc. Maybe the A-Fib that has been a part of all this, damage to the heart muscle thru the years .. I dunno.
Sounds like you and your sister have a good bond. So glad for that!
I also feel like at least two of my brothers feel the same about my mother as I do. And there is some humorous interchanges between us, because some of this stuff is so ridiculous that it's funny.
If my mother were to have another TIA, I so hope it's not when I'm around. If someone has to be around, I'd like it to be Sonny-No-Show or at least on the phone with HIM.
Won't be shocking to anyone here, but in convo with SIL yesterday .. between MIL and SIL, .. SIL telling us that her mom .. they were on the topic of AL .. and that her mom said (which to a coddler like SIL .. she melts and is toast as far as making rational decisions) .. Her mom said to her: "So I'm the one that has to do all the sacrificing here and leave my home in FL and then go into AL .. up here .. you won't sell your house and you and B move down to FL to help me?".
Selfish? Yes, unbelievably selfish. Myopic .. you betcha, thru and thru.
But also .. this is someone who just can't . her cognitive abilities so diminished . she can't see the bigger picture . she just can't. Beyond her capability.
Say that kinda thing to M (SIL's sensible, no nonsense, not a coddler at all, daughter) and you'd get a resounding "Nope" and likely no further dialogue just a simple "no, no and no" each and anytime that comes up.
Say that kinda thing to SIL .. and she wants to maybe ponder whether that's something she should be considering .. until she does .. at least thus far .. come to the realization .. after at least being set back by the notion .. that's not practical.
As I said to SIL on that topic: "At the very least, . .no not viable .. but at the very least . she doesn't like B . we all know that . she can barely tolerate him and she cannot at all tolerate him when he's manic .. and we all know that's gunna happen with his issues .. it's a fact .. what ..???.....does she now expect that you'l divorce him, throw him to the wolves .. and come to FL and take care of her .. really, seriously?!?!?!?, .. that's not fair to B .. among many other reasons it's not something that needs to occur but that's an important one".
Too many years coddling all of this, .. plain and simple. I'm sorry .. but that's the honest truth.
This.
The lack of insight ("take a good last look buddy, you'll never see my house again") and the sense of entitlement are indicators both of cognitive impairment and narcissism. IMO
What you would hear back:
"Oh man .. well yea I remember when she said that .. sheesh! .. but ya know ... he really is a handful to tolerate when he's manic .. he just is .. it's all I CAN DO MYSELF to put up with him, . and I'm not 88 years old with a host of health problems of my own".
Coddle, make excuses for ... etc.
In the end, .. the reality is .. even if SIL would cave (and it wouldn't take much, she's such a coddler) ... that is a supremely bad idea. MIL can't even stay in the same house with him for the six weeks she's been there and tolerate it.
Yea, I guess if SIL were looking to move south (which I question why she doesn't .. can't be up in the snow and ice .. and so forth when you're getting on in years yourself), .. but even if that were something she were looking to do (she doesn't), she'd have to come this way and buy her own home .. not stay in MIL's home to care for her .. and move her husband into that environment. That wouldn't work, not at all.
And .. what good is it gonna do, to have her living in her own home here .. in town. MIL needs more care than just someone who can drop in daily and do some chore stuff, .. that ship sailed.
So I don't know what MIL's premise was there .. surely she has enough awareness left over to realize that living in any setting with her daughter's husband attendant there .. not gonna work.
It brings back a similar conversation I had with my mom.
Its was right after I had moved my mother into the nursing home. Mom was again insisting that I move her to my house and for me to look after her.
After going five or six rounds of the exact same thing - I hadn’t yet discovered that there is no reasoning with dementia- explaining how my house would be impossible for her to live in AND that between my own physical limitations and looking after Rainman- that I was in no shape to care for her as well - my mom started again with “Why can’t I go to live with you...”
Out of sheer frustration I said “Don’t I deserve to have a life of my own?” To which my mother immediately replied “Don’t I?”
I sat there in stunned silence- you have to realize that I was heading in to year six of looking after her. She had been difficult from day one and by this time she was impossible to deal with. I was barely hanging onto the frayed ends of my sanity- I had been putting off an operation I had needed for a couple of years. I was continually short changing Rainman and my husband in order to look after her. I had just come off of 47 straight days where the phone rang with some crisis or decision that had to do with her, etc.
My mother had this incredibly smug look in her face that said “so there. Got ya with that one!”
What my mother didn’t realize was that it hit me in that moment that she didn’t give a chit about all that I had been doing for her - and what this all was doing to me - costing me and my own family. That if necessary she would completely suck the life out of me if it was what it took for her to get what she wanted - to live as she wanted.
I was fully present in feeling the tread the of the tires as she drove the bus over me. Frankly? I was fighting the urge to smoother her with her bed pillow.
At 88 my mother had lived a full life. Mom had retired in her 50’s and had spent the previous 30 years living high and doing exactly what she wanted. And here we were - at this point in time with her wanting to continue to live as she wanted - regardless of the fact she was no longer physically or mentally capable. With no care or concession to the fact that the only way she could live as she please was for me to completely sacrifice my own life to prop up hers.
So now when I read that MIL is saying “so I’m the only one who has to sacrifice..” I am reminded of that awful conversation with my mom - that awful moment of truth. That MIL has that expectation- that everyone else should sacrifice in order for her to live as she pleases. That she seems to have no appreciation for all that SIL
has done - is doing - for her, that it is all meaningless...
It just makes me tired and sad. I’m afraid SIL is in for a very bumpy ride. Dorker - do tell her to fasten her seatbelt.
Dorker, please keep us informed as to what happens with MIL in the hospital. It sounds like you are being a very good support for SIL during this difficult time. Kudos!
" No, that's not one of the choices".
Tell SIL to pull out her Special Education training. It will stand her in good stead.
I hope SIL can stay strong thru the 3 days and rehab placement - getting placement from home later is not an option.
Seriously? Did MIL expect -
”Of course, Mother. I’ll put my house up for sale this afternoon. Then onto the computer to book plane reservations for you, me and Poochy to fly home to Florida. Of course, mother - no ticket for B since I know you don’t like him and don’t want him around you. Would you like me to divorce him as well? And if couse there’s M. She was so unspeakable rude to you I’ll immediately cut all contact with her also. Then you and I can sit side by side at your kitchen window all day - or at least until I have to wipe Poochys azz - or yours”.
Sorry. Raw nerve.
If only caregivers could put the brakes on their caregiving before all the detrimental effects!
So much selfishness, lack of appreciation, and, frequently, abuse from these elders!
And dementia isn't really an excuse for the caregiver to be expected to put up with this, at least in my mind.
Does it happen?
I know there are those who "want" to go the posh AL .. with it's country club like atmosphere and merrily stroke that check to be able to ride the golf cart around daily and participate in whatever social programs available there .. and such. I know that scenario does happen.
I don't know, in this whole latest ... MIL having asked SIL if she wouldn't just sell her home and move to FL. That whole saga, .. somehow .. maybe because I backed away from all this madness and put some distance between me and the tornado, I'm able to look at it maybe with more objectivity.
Yes, incredibly selfish .. yes .. ridiculously unrealistic. Definitely!
But is she capable at this point in her ability to look at the bigger picture, .. is she even able to, at this point .. decipher that?
They say that old folks, some of them, become child like. I see the above asinine request as about that, "child like". I don't even .. not really ... see it from a standpoint of anger .. not this time .. not with this specific tale.
Would I feel the same way if she said to me, "You mean to tell me Dorker, that I'm not going to be allowed to live out my days in your yellow bedroom?".
I think even still, I'd see it as kinda child-like, for her to assume that would even be viable, much as she would even consider the request she made of SIL.
I feel like someone else kinda termed it. Ya know, she has had a long, mostly enjoyable life. Good for her. SIL is entitled to the same, if she will stake her claim to it. As am I.
I hate it for her, .. I know her well, .. she didn't want to live long enough to have to face this fork in the road. I guess in her *child like* mind .. she was able to delude herself (and SIL leading that charge) that she could finish out her life on this earth .. from the kitchen window she so loves to sit at .. inside her home.
But I don't hate it for her enough that I will step into that gap ... and thus far, apparently neither does SIL.
SIL seemingly (at least thus far) that she so so so so cannot do this .. her mom requiring more care than she can give her. That she is running on exhaustion at this point, shear utter exhaustion .. she can't do it. She finally sees it, .. at least for now.
What will happen in the Rehab site ... will SIL then delude herself that her mom is okay to bring into her home and her then "breathe" new life into her from that setting and in the process run herself into the ground? Not up to me.
As far as I'm concerned, .. MIL has been exhibiting this "child like" selfishness, for a long long time, and it has smoothly sailed for the most part .. longer than it should've.
It was interesting to note that as SIL talks .. listening to her, .. she said that she has seen a marked declined in her mom just since April.
I was trying to remember what has happened in April .. since April .. what would it be that has caused what SIL would define as as precipitous decline.
The only conclusion that I've come to, .. that's when I sat down to talk with SIL finally, face to face, .. and let her know, even in a chart I'd made .. and had her look at, as to all the "need" .. and let her know, I'm out. And I stuck to it. I did go .. on Thursdays and help her, but only on Thursdays. SIL having to scramble like crazy in the gap of it all, with all the other need and no way to get it met .. maybe that helped her also, to see .. that her mom's needs are too great.
Maybe she got her there, to IL .. thinking (in fact I know that was her mindset) sure she was going to breathe new life into her mom's situation. She's had o choice but to wake up and smell the coffee at this point.
Yes and no. My Mom, while on the Geri psyche floor of the hospital to have her mood stabilized was busted as to how often she fell. Her PCP, Social Worker, and staff convinced her she needed to go for rehab. When I went to pick her up for discharge it had been aranged.
Mom had agreed to go to rehab! Rehab only but it was the beginning of the transition. 2 years of needing to be in a facility and she was finally there.
I don’t have much hope that rehab will get MIL anywhere, but it will get SIL some respite, give M some time to work on SIL, and give you and DH some time to get some things done to make long term care happen in IL. There will be a lot of things that will have to happen fast.
Even if Hospice is brought on board I just don’t see SIL being a very good candidate to handle that type of situation in her home with the limited amount of help available thru Hospice. They are great but not enough help for 24/7 care.
I don’t know how well BIL would hold up in that situation either.
My Mom went to rehab with the intent to return to her home after she was “cured”. That did not happen. She remained as a resident in the facility. She wasn’t happy about it but she finally adjusted pretty well.
Prior to wanting to move to my house she was briefly fixated on me renting an apartment for her where she would live alone with her cat. She was with it enough to realize another AL would likely bounce her out as quickly as the one that found her now living in a nursing home. So an apartment... no thought given to the fact that she couldn’t change her own soiled Depends, cook her own meals or even dress herself. No bigger picture.
Ironically, prior to old age really kicking my mothers butt around the block - she was the one who periodically tried to persuade me into putting Rainman into a group home - saying he was too much for me and that I deserved to have a life of my own? Rich, huh? So no, no bigger picture.
As for loved ones being accepting of phasing to live in a more structured and supportive environment-
When both my parents first arrived home after their rehab stays following their initial crisis, they accepted it was time to leave their home of fifty years. The house had become more than they could manage. And my dad had become more than my mom wanted to manage. It was my moms idea that they move to IL, in fact. They weren't happy about it but resigned.
My grandma- my fathers mother had been living with her oldest son and his wife for a few years when out of the blue she announced that it was time for her to move to AL - and off she went. Grandma lived there around ten years or so - until she passed away at 97.
So yes, it does happen.
After a week of "emergencies" and us kids all telling mom that we couldn't do this level of response any longer, she agreed to a trial run for the late fall/winter--due to the severe storms that regularly hit the Northeast during that season. Every year, mom's basement would flood, no one would be able to get up the icy hill to her house...
Indeed, for the previous year, I'd been pointing out to her that she was becoming isolated, that her neighborhood had no sidewalks, that no one was home during the day, no public transport, no ability for us to get to her in severe weather.
I'd just mention one of those facts casually each time I talked to her and made sure other relatives did as well. We didn't argue. We stated those things as facts. If mom said "but Daddy said...." we'd just let the facts stand there. There WERE no sidewalks and daddy wasn't there to see the facts on the ground anymore.
My mom wasn't happy about moving to an IL, but the one thing? She knew that we loved her and wanted only the best for her. And she trusted us.
MIL fell in December ( did an event cause the fall? Like a stroke or TIA, we`ll never know. And the pain in her back never fully investigated. Chronic pain is a terrible thing to live with).
SIL left and she stopped taking her meds regularly, I'll bet. And poor nutrition to boot.
(Okay, I just looked this up -- IL's Medicaid requirements state person must be IL resident. IL's residency requirement is that the person must be living in IL for 12 continuous months.) So how is THAT going to work? Even though SIL was able to lie about Poochy's ESA status, I doubt she'll get away with it for Medicaid (nor should be able to do that). And even now, since MIL's mail is still going to the FL house (which it is, right, Dorker?), the IL residency clock hasn't even really started ticking.
So it looks like MIL may get her way in returning to FL, because that is still her state of residence. Or else SIL can do all the caregiving for MIL, as she's been doing, until MIL satisfies IL's residency requirement. That doesn't seem feasible.
Since MIL hasn't been declared mentally incompetent (yet), will SHE have to sign all the paperwork? What happens if she refuses? Will SIL and Dorker's H's united YOU MUST DO THIS front be enough to actually get her to agree? And what happens if she doesn't?
SIL has mentioned to me that as she goes about talking to these folks, and the steps needed .. she will need me and/or DH to go out to MIL's and dig up some financial documents (she knows where to send me within the house to find said docs .. or DH) .. and that they may need some of that. Not a problem, she's been told. Will do it.
"
I don't know how that will work, .. that's a good question for her to ask as she begins this process.
Interesting that I said to her, .. on the topic of the rehab stint that is about to commence, as of tomorrow. "So she will either get stronger and can return to your house, or from there can be directed to AL or NH".
SIL's response: "Dorker I think it's just going to have to be placement .. I don't think I can do this .. I can't take care of her".
Interesting .. that is an about-face from her. She has always .. always .. with every fiber of everything she is, .. been about the next PT .. OT .. gadget .. pill/test/procedure, you name it .. always!
I do find it curious that she isn't .. seemingly (things are always so fluid with this, and more to the point, her at the helm) .. doesn't even entertain any notion of returning her to her home .. (as she would SO WISH FOR .. her mom) .. and to live alone again .. with all the Team MIL (that never exited) at her disposal.
She does admit to . her mom has some short term memory deficits and cites examples of same. Finally!
Said yesterday, her mom had fallen asleep .. and they came in with her lunch tray. She decided to let her mom sleep, .. can warm it up when she wakes up if need be. She stepped out for a bit to make a couple of phone calls, left her mom asleep. When she returned .. her mom was awake. Said to her mom, "oh they brought your lunch tray here". Her mom responded, "I already ate it". This was shocking to SIL, as .. generally ... her mom needs help .. arthritic hands .. can't open the utensil packet, she can't open the little container of jello and peel back the lid off of it, .. can't open the little packets of no-salt and such ... needs help.
SIL lifted the lid .. "mom you haven't even touched your lunch".
Her mom: "Oh I guess I thought I already ate, because I smelled it, I don't know".
So anyway, .. that as an example, of many others.
But as to Medicaid funding ... and her not an IL resident .. I don't know, .. do dollars routinely transfer states for just this kinda set up. I don't know, but she will be navigating some of that on her end. And the folks she'll be meeting with can best answer some of that.
Another question that I have .. and I don't have the answer to it. Of course, yes .. her mom has some dollars at her disposal as part of that reverse mortgage. I have no idea if it's $500 or $50K .. I don't know, to be honest. I haven't needed to know, none of my biz. But those dollars will have to be expended before any Medicaid anywhere kicks in, that much I do know. But .. also ... I don't know how this all works with a reverse mortgage.
Obviously she did this reverse mortgage like eons ago, even before her husband passed away.
The home has appreciated .. over and above what that reverse mortgage would've been in dollar amount. Does Medicaid then lien .. as 2nd lienholder .. any value of the home .. over and above what is owed to the reverse mortgage holder. I don't know the answer to that .. if so .. great .. then that's more dollars that can go to pay for the setting. I don't know.
But I don't know the intricacies of a reverse mortgage. Does a reverse mortgage then negate the owner from the funds available, through appreciation through the years. I really don't know the answer to any of that.
Seems to me, that Medicaid would go ahead and file as 2nd lien holder .. and at the sale of the home, be that initiated by us . family . or by the reverse mortgage holder, .. in any event
In any event, any funds available as to the home's appreciation .. over and above what the reverse mortgage holder is entitled to, would then belong to Medicaid.
Makes sense to me, but for all I know, there is a clause of some sort on the reverse mortgage that if suddenly the home shoot shoot into the stratosphere as to it's value .. over and above what is owed to them .. they are entitled to that also.
That's something that will need to be sorted through also.
Keep us updated, Dorker!
Aren't we crossing an awful lot of bridges that we may never come to?
I can understand SIL's having a complete sense of humour failure on such a sensitive point, but aren't the rest of us taking MIL's "SIL should move to FL" a little too literally? Sure MIL'd like that. I expect she'd also like a spine transplant, all-new ligaments and a reconditioned heart. I don't suppose she thinks it's a real option. She has a dry, tongue-in-cheek wit, does MIL (see also asking Dorker if she was about to jump on a plane); and just because no one else is in the mood for it doesn't mean she's not using it.
Assuming nothing happens and the inpatient observation times out, with some fast talking they might still get MIL into a rehab bed. From there, I'd suggest to whatever temporary placement is available and acceptable. Then they can sit down and have a think, but for now they just need breathing space.
It continues to be correct to consult MIL about her wishes, but it has become unreasonable to expect her to handle the decision-making. She'll take what she's given; and I don't mean that in a nasty way. I mean I'm sure SIL will do her best to find the most acceptable available place, and MIL will go along with it. SIL is making a rod for her own back, and overburdening MIL, if she tries to make MIL too active a participant. MIL is knackered and ill. Within reason, she's past caring where she goes and it's just not reasonable to ask her to express a preference from a range of highly unattractive prospects.
Dorker, sit tight. Do not go to IL, not until everyone knows where they stand and the plan is under way, and even then not unless you especially want to. DH might like to think about going to see his mother, a flying visit only, just to make her happy. But not you. Keep your head right down.
Do remind SIL that the aim is as good as possible, and not a remodelling of the cosmos.
I think that some elderly individuals dealing with cognitive decline - especially the ones who are use to getting there own way and having others cater to their wants - ala circling the campground - loose their ability to know or care about anything beyond their own needs and desires. Even to the ludicrous. Their world and their viewpoint has become so very small and narrow.
Clearly, my own viewpoint is jaded - and of couse as the disclaimer goes - this is just my opinion and not
meant to represent the opinions of others.
And really, when it boils down to it - this was just one comment made by a sick old lady. An old lady who is most likely experiencing a lot of fear and anxiety as to what her immediate future holds. As well, MIL is having to face the sad fact that
whatever her immediate future holds it’s definitely not going to be anything she had wanted for. No fluffy cloud arriving just outside her kitchen window - that’s for sure.
Honestly, I feel bad for SIL and MIL at this point in time. This is The Game Changer. I remember well the two game changing events that my parents faced - and by association myself. It’s a sad, sad time.
But I at least think SIL will find it less painful and guilt-lading to remember that what comes out as MIL's stream of consciousness is not to be taken as instructions. God forbid. And MIL does have a choice turn of phrase :)
Country mouse - my MIL announced recently that when I am 55, why wouldn't I retire and basically be on call as chauffeur and housecleaner etc. Afterall - it is what a daughter of a friend did for her parents. I think as we age - the world gets to be very small and that fear of illness and losing control makes the elder like a someone drowning - grab who ever is near and hang on - don't think of them. My dad was the same - expected me to quit a job and take care of him after his stroke - after all my husband was working. I just laughed as said no - but that didn't stop the entitled expectations.
I am a little angry at MIL while I pitty her too. She can say "just leave me in my house alone" but no one, including the state, is going to do that. Her children won't do that and in the end she is running everyone into the ground but she will say "I didn't ask them to...." well, by not planning, yes you did.
My parents, in-laws are clinging to their houses with all of their strength and refuse to discuss POA, aging and losing ability to do ADL, etc - and they are all early 80's. Each one of them (5 people) just say "I hope I die before AL" as if that is likely to really happen.
Yet all of my grandparents/ grandparents inlaw voluntarily made the move to AL while they were still very independent and accepted the AL help with bathing and medicine etc.
What is it about the current flock of elders in their late 70's/early 80's that are so damn stubborn?
She had a heck of a nerve...you aren't even the daughter!
Interesting that your parents and in-laws won't leave their houses, yet your grandparents and grandparent-in-laws went to facilities. What was so bad about that decision (facility) that makes the parents and in-laws to refuse to consider it?
My MIL has informed everyone that she will have to be carried out of her house.
I wish SIL had more of a backbone when it came to MIL's maneuvering. She's just SO INGRAINED to jump to MIL's demands, ridiculous as they are!
Sell their home and move (minus B) to FL to take care of one selfish, angry, unhappy woman who doesn't have the decency (or ability?) to see ANYBODY but themself? SERIOUSLY????????????????
You talked SIL down off the ledge, that's gonna be your job now! Support! Stay the course! Don't budge!
MIL's deficits are so noticeable to those of us who are reading about them. It's like reading a book (literally!) and kind of already knowing the ending, but still reading b/c you don't really know what's going to happen next.
Good grief, MIL's narcissism knows NO BOUNDS!!!!!!!
How much time is SIL spending with her mom? All day? Fussing and fretting with her over how miserable life is? That needs to stop, A visit once a day, to set the pattern for future placement and then a slow adjustment to the new place. Of COURSE she's going to hate it. She's going to hate ANYTHING/ANYWHERE that isn't her own house with 5 people running attendance. Accept that.
My own mom chose a rehab facility near my house that is a well known dump. I tried to talk her out of it---and she wouldn't budge. Well, she got moved there after hip replacement and yup, she HATED IT. And it was my fault (go figure). She screamed at everyone there. Me, mostly. We were trying to move her to a nicer place and she was mad b/c it wasn't happening fast enough, and she blew up and "threw" a bedpan at me. Well, she's weak as a kitten and the pan was plastic, so it didn't have much "oomph" to it. I burst into laughter, b/c of the sheer ridiculousness of it. She told me to GET OUT and go to He77 on the way. I left and didn't talk to nor see her for 6 weeks.
Yep, she got moved to a nicer place, courtesy of my wealthy sister who coughed up the $20 a day difference between the dump and the palace.
Poor planning.
A social worker should be able to untangle the mess about residency. Surely she's not the first person in the world to need placement in a state that is NOT their primary residence. Just knowing who to call and how to present it. A geri-doc should also be able to guide you in this.
And maybe it's time to push for the POA, although she may likely not be a candidate for making informed decisions. Again, poor planning.
I'm snoopy, so if I was the one digging through MIL's documents, I would find out exactly how much money she might stand to make if she has to sell her house. I know exactly nothing about RM's so I stabbing in the dark. However, any funds she has will have to go towards her care. I don't know how you go about doing that. No POA and the state steps in and you really don't get your "value".
Is it agreed by all at hand that she CANNOT live alone???? Don't even have one person who is waffling on that?
And poor SIL, 6 weeks trying to "fix mom" and she's sick and depressed.
I LIKE daughter who is tough. She is like my sister. Straight forward and no regrets. She says "no" and never looks back. She'll throw money at any problem, if it helps, but she also does not waste one minute on fussing people.
Brace yourselves--MIL is going to HATE any placement. HATE with fierce and loud complaining. Support SIL in NOT bringing her back home.
Wouldn't hurt DH to get on a plane and do a short weekend show of support. Just MHO.
Sorry for the long post. I just really, really hope SIL can stay strong. She is so used to caving under the slightest "sigh" from MIL's direction. Wish we all could lend her some backbone.
Honestly, I think we're seeing the beginning of the end. Cognitive decline is coming fast and furious now. Try not to let "today's" drama be the end all. Just listen and let SIL vent and then put it away and live YOUR life. MIL's obvious decline is only going to get worse, No meds for it, no therapy.
It might even help to contact SIL's IL congressperson and MIL's FLA one and lay on the sauce about this poor woman who is failing and needs rehab in IL now. Election years tend to bump up constituent service.
If I remember right, Medicare will pick up 21 days full pay, then partial payment for the remainder of the allotted 100 days. Her insurance may cover the balance of the 100 days. That gives you some time to navigate thru an exception with IL Medicaid.
If so, MIL might be entitled to some widow of veteran benefits.