I've posted before about in-law care-giving. Aged mother in law, lives in same town.
We are at the tail end of a visit from sister in law from several states away. Sister in law has been here for 3 weeks caring for her mother. A much welcome respite.
It had been discussed, prior to her arrival here on the scene, she would be talking it over with her mother, to try and get her mom to come up to her home, for a stay of maybe a few months.
This, in my opinion, is absolutely essential, as I am expecting twin grand-children, due in about 1 month (if they don't come sooner, as is the case a lot of times with multiples pregnancies). The expectant mother also lives locally here, and has a 4 year old daughter. I will be on that front, helping .. as much as is needed. And not on the front with mother in law and care-giving, and have made that as obvious and apparent as I know how to make it. It would be great if mother in law would agree to go to her daughter's home (several states away) for a period of a few months .. and allow me the latitude to put my energies where I want them to be, on my daughter who will have had a c-section .. and my grand-daughter (4 years old) and new twin babies.
Nothing doing. Mother in law has dug in her heels, and will not hear of it, going to stay with her daughter for any period of time.
What are her reasons?
In mother in law's defense ... her daughter ... I don't even know how to describe it. I will say that when her daughter comes here to visit, she all but breathes for her mother and if she could find a way to do that, she'd do that too. She is the most nervous nelly, never sit down - ever ... worry wart, do everything, all the time .. person that I've ever encountered.
A great example, as I was taking her to the airport yesterday for her departure, . I reached into the fridge to grab myself a bottled water and shut the fridge and turned to walk away, as I've done for all of my 50 plus years living on this earth .. and she said to me, "Oh make sure that fridge shut". WTH???? Like I don't know how to shut a fridge? That's just a small, very small slice of what she is ... how she is.
She is so very hyper-vigilant, seeing to every minute details down to it's finest most minuscule point, fine tooth comb, questioning every point along the way, "should we do thus and so, but maybe if we do thus and so, then such and such will happen, maybe we should do it thus and so .. but then so and so might happen, maybe we shouldn't do thus and so, but do "x" "y" and "z" instead, but if we don't do it that way then ..........", on and on and on and on it goes. And usually in hyper warp speed, as to every single friggin thing.
If her mother moans .. "what's wrong mother?, why did you moan, are you alright?".
Mother: "Yes, I'm fine, I was just sighing out loud".
Sister: "Why did you sigh? Are you hurting, are you sure you're alright, why are you sighing what's the matter?"
Mother: "For God's sake __________________, I was just sighing, .. calm down, I'm fine".
Sister: "Are you sure, .. because if something is wrong you need to tell me".
Mother: "Everything is fine, I'm fine".
Sister: "Are you sure, we did a lot yesterday, did we do too much, maybe we shouldn't of gone to two doctors in one day .. was that too much for you, are you too tired now, maybe we need to move those other doctor appointments so we won't have two in one day, is that too much for you, for one day .. is that why you were sighing .. what's wrong, are you sure you're alright".
Hopefully that kinda gives a little bit of a snapshot of what goes on when sister is in the ring directing things.
So in mother in law's defense.. I do get it, why she wouldn't be chomping at the bit to go to her daughter's home.
BUT ....
The only experience she has with her daughter, in the last years as mother in law has aged and been unable to go anywhere much, has been the daughter coming here, periodically, for periods of about 3 weeks at a stretch. When her daughter comes here, she moves heaven and earth for her mother and then some, and doesn't sit down, doesn't stop .. the WHOLE ENTIRE TIME.
Is there a possibility maybe (as I said to mother in law, when she expressed that isn't happening - talking to me - her going to her daughters .. ever) .. could it be possible that maybe if you would go to where she lives .. she'd be more busy managing her own life in that setting than your's and she would get out of your backside .. and not be as hyper-drive-vigilant as you experience in her, when she's here, could that be possible.
The daughter is retired, lives several states away. Does come here, generally, every few months .. and stays for a period of about 3 weeks at a stretch. I wish I could make a list of everything the daughter did when here this last time, but it would take up the whole character allotment:
I sit here .. literally in tears this morning. Not tears of sorrow but tears of frustration of watching DH slip into the despair of it all, .. and it doesn't need to be that way, doesn't have to be that way. He is "choosing" to let this bring him to the doldrums .. and maybe yes, in the reality that he never did the hands on .. change course DH .. not going hunting . not going to a church meeting . nope . .change course .. your mom needs X, Y and Z .. get to steppin ..
I don't know, but I didn't break it and I can't fix it .. and neither did he.
And he can't seem to own that.
I would like to say that it encourages me that he did get up this morning to head to church.
<<<I had tried to persuade him to do so .. as we are fully aware the pastor begins every Monday morning .. early early .. in the sanctuary . .generally alone .. has invited anyone who wishes, to join him .. in prayer .. we all know this . and DH has gone .. in the past to do so .. and so I had encouraged he do that>>
He did leave this morning to go there.
When I suggested it, it was met with some obstinence and anger .. "I have talked to _________!". I know, .maybe you need to talk to him more, maybe you need to get a counselor .. I'll go with you if you want . maybe you need to talk to your doctor, I'll make you an appt .. for an anti depressant yourself".
Silence .. lost in sorrow . no answer .. not engaging...
I would like to say that I'm encouraged as I know we all find our zen .. so to speak in different ways . him . in the church . .and so he got up this morning and headed that way.
But .. sadly I know, living this .. all it takes is one more visit to see mommy and her tears .. and her despair . and he's right back in the pits of the doldrums this takes him to.
Man the eff up . grow a damn set. I am frustrated .. sad yes, but that's over here in a box of .. "I can't help all this .. I've done it .. I can't fix it . ". But frustrated and angry ..
And it's gonna get a lot worse. Right now as Barb put it, . she's in the country club of rehabs .. and no .. can't really talk of her wonderful travels and brilliant career .. and hang with the upper echolant.
She's not of that ilk she fancies herself to be.
She's about to be bounced out of that and into the land of the slumpers.
For GOD's SAKE DH . if you can't even stomach her in this setting .. .you better hope something takes you to a catatonic state . because seeing her in the setting she next lands in . is gonna take you to a state of so much sorrow that you better find your damn spine and fast. You're gonna need it!
I don't know how there can be such a wide divide. For me, .. it's very much the reality of .. she has lived her life on her terms . and yes .. even far longer . in her own home and happy there .. with all of us working like slaves to keep it propped up . far longer than it should've been. I'm sorry she is still alive and in this predicament . but I didn't break it, I can't fix it.
Him on some other realm of the sorrow of it all.
It's like I said to him, "what you have to do when their needs become more than we can step to, you have to find a safe/affordable place that can do so . she needs round the clock care".
Him: "She doesn't care about *safe* and all that .. she just wants to be happy".
Me: "and much like a kid . who is happy playing in the street and you know that's not a plan .. and so you correct it .. same thing here".
Silence, not engaged .. off in despair.
I am frustrated and just in general pizzed!
DH seeking help anywhere is a good indication I suppose.
I guess we can hope Pastor saw DH in his despair and offered counsel.
"Sadly, in rehabs and ALs and NHs, the major topics of conversation are aches and pains, the demise of civilization (as evidenced by the dress/behavior/music listening habits of grands or great grands) and of course, had bad the food is."
Multiple times over 2 years, my aunt was in and out of a rehab I'll call ZP. Every time she was there, she bi+ched and moaned about the food, saying it wasn't good, wasn't seasoned, etc. (she's supposed to be on a sodium free diet like most old folks).
She now lives in an AL facility right across the street from ZP. She constantly bi+ches about the food there and says "The food here is NOTHING like it was at ZP! They had the BEST food at ZP! It was SO GOOD!"
I have sat at the lunch table with her on four different occasions. She has all but licked her plate clean when I saw her eating. Whenever I point this out she will say "Well, it was pretty good TODAY, but it is usually not fit to eat!"
dude...
She is never going to be happy. She was NOT happy at home. She moaned and groaned and needed and b—tched her way through that. The change to IL with SIL was more of the same, just a DIFFERENT SETTING. She has a cloud... and it follows her everywhere. IL was not horrible for her. She just brought her cloud with her. Same with this rehab site.
She has a cloud... and it follows her everywhere. He could bring her back to her hometown and have everyone there throw her a blasted party and do everything but breathe for her, lol, and she STILL wouldn’t be happy.
One of the wisest and most helpful things I read on this board when we were in the pit of hell with my in-laws was that very thing. I don’t even know who said it, but they have my undying gratitude. It shifted my thinking and gave me a new approach to get others to open their eyes.
In the crazy time, I went through an exercise where I listed everything they said that would make them happy. I thought of every wonderful thing we could do to help them pursue their goal of “happy”. In execution, they would always revert back to miserable. Always. And these are good people who loved people, brought joy to their world and lived very positive lives. And they loved us dearly. And they had no financial concerns and had friends and family around all the time. If there was a chance in the world of shifting to happy, these were the people it would work on.
But, no. Brain changes, age, whatever makes them lose empathy, whatever narrows their world, those are the things that take away the happy. Where they live is just semantics.
Great, now I am having flashbacks;)
"She wasn't happy here in her home .. she was lonely, isolated, sick a lot and unable to attend to herself, her dog . her home . she wasn't happy here .. in her own home .. she wasn't happy in IL with me .. she's not gonna be happy anywhere .. she's just gonna be "less" happy in a facility . but it is what it is .. I've tried .. I can't do it .. it's too much .. there isn't anyone that 'CAN' do it ..
She's not gonna be happy unless someone has a time machine that can turn back her viability . .and she and her dog can live life out in her home.
There is a disconnect in her brain that forbids her seeing that she doesn't manage .. on her own . that's her answer .. "I just want me and my dog back in my home".
That's her answer.
SIL .. talking to her on the phone this morning .. she stating "I just hate even talking to her anymore. . I'm trying to be empathetic . .and listen to her . and let her vent .. and it's just so much doom and gloom".
She goes on to tell me of this exchange between them:
MIL: "Well I hope when you get back to IL that it's all you hope it to be and that things are just as you want".
SIL: "Now mother don't say that .. when you say that to me, what i hear is that you resent it that I won't give up my life and move in and take care of you around the clock, I can't do that, I tried .. . I'm getting older myself .. and I can't do it .. and when you say that it sounds to me like you resent it that I intend to return to my life and that's not fair to me".
MIL: "Well I don't want that either, .. I don't expect you to give up your life".
Then SIl saying . "but with her, it just reverts back and forth .. she can't see the forest for the trees .. all she can see is that SHE is the one that has to suffer the misery of upending her life in this direction . as she puts it . .. "so I'm the one that has to give up everything . .. I Just can't believe I will never see my home again".
SIL: (therapuetic lie) .. "nobody is saying you won't ever see your home again, it's still going to be here, none of that has to change right away .. .you maybe will get strong enough you can come here to help us sort thru things ..
(Me interjecting if you ever set up to do that, I want no part of it . it will get ugly .. fast .. very ugly).
SIL telling me, .. OH I know .. I won't do that .. I can't .. but .. lie .. I've told more lies in the last week than I've told in my life I think (chuckles).
Off to get ready for atty appt., will report back when I can.
But for many people (sorry, guys,) especially men, who are taught to "man up" and never show emotion, anger is OK. 'Cause it's manly.
When my DH's father died, DH chose to be angry, rather than mourn and show his true feelings. It was HARD. He never cried or showed any emotions other than anger and frustration.
He had not been a part of his dad's care team, I had been, front and center for 6 months+. DH would come with me sometimes, but a lot of what CG involved was truly gag-worthy and DH would sit on the sofa and turn green--and I'd have to send him outside so he didn't have to watch, Poor baby.
Personally, I'm sick of hearing about this sick family's obsession over keeping their mother happy. Who the heck does that?
My mother spent my entire childhood and adulthood (up until I was about 50) telling us she was going to kill herself and "then we'd all be sorry" (for what? I still don't know). What a horrible thing to say to a 5 yo!
Now she's a hard-ridden 89 and doing everything in her power to stay alive and keep her "numbers" good. I think that means her BS and stuff--don't care, haven't asked. The irony is that NOW we'd be just fine if she quit her meds--she'd be gone in a week. I visit and the entire visit is spent talking about how hard it is for her to just get to Bingo once a week and the general misery of living in my brother's home. I DO pray that she can be taken soon. No quality of life, really, She doesn't want to go anywhere or do anything. Nobody comes to visit, brother doesn't allow her to leave, so she just sits.
She wanted to be an upper-echelon kind of person, and perhaps as a young teen, actually was, since she had money and all the trappings of a fairly wealthy family. Daddy was a hard worker, but we definitely were NOT upper class. Solid middle, I guess--does it matter?
Mother is like MIL--she's wasted money on things that had no long term value and did not bring her any happiness. But, she was never, ever happy (at least around the family-strangers were her best buds!!) At home, she was a miserable, unhappy little soul.
NOTHING I do, or anybody else in the family does makes her happy. She still has her reasoning skills--a little slip of memory, but not terrible. She doesn't understand why her kids don't come around. She can't put 2 and 2 together and get 4. You're mean and thoughtless and neglectful when your kids are small you are not going to have close family ties in your dotage. Too late for her.
I. too, find DH's sudden epiphanies to be a little over the top, At least he is aware, now. Nobody knows how long MIL has, could be hours, days, weeks, years.
One thing I have come to believe--"God's time" is a LONG time. And yes, maybe God is giving MIL one last chance to prove she's not a complete narc, by putting people in her path whose lives she could improve or bring some joy to. (The slumpers? My great uncle was a slumper from the age of 40 until he died in his 90's and he was the MOST engaging, amazing man to spend time with!)
Good luck, Dorker.
Some of them have simply talked each other's ears off and heard each other's stories a thousand times. They may be waiting for someone new to come along.
My grandmother shared a NH room with another lady. The other lady was usually laying in her bed, wide-eyed, staring at the ceiling but didn't ever say anything to us when we visited. We all assumed she'd had a stroke or something and could not speak. This went on for weeks, with my mother visiting 3x daily to assist my grandmother with meals.
Finally one day my mom asked my grandmother a question and my grandmother didn't know the answer. Silent Suzy spoke up and answered! My mother said, "My goodness! I didn't know you could speak!"
Silent Suzy said, "Well, NOBODY ever asked me!" They had a good laugh and my mom always made it a point to talk to and include her in the conversation from then on.
And I understand your frustration too, everybody being run ragged and exhausted trying to attend to MIL's needs, when she just simply can't see it. There were times I would get so frustrated with my mom for the same thing. But it is like you've mentioned, their world just closes in, and they develop myopia (or if narcissistic likely have always had the myopic self-centered view of things) and can only see how things affect them. And yes, tantrums, tears, the whole nine yards. It's enough to drive one crazy, I know.
She's gonna push and pull and tug on the heartstrings, but you and SIL and M know that you are all doing the hard, but necessary thing. I bet DH will come around too, it's just gonna be hard for awhile because of the tears and drama that you all are gonna be facing. You can give her every opportunity to be happy, do the best you can, but nobody has a time machine. It just is what it is.
A few years later, she was suffering from dementia and at the same NH as my mom. I'd stop to see her and though she had no idea who I was, she was sweet and loving. When she passed, the church was packed.
It's a sad way to live.
DH and SIL will be co on DPOA ...Not a succession type thing but either can sign without the other if needed.
There will be a new medical surrogate form done in lieu of the Five Wishes.
A trust account or ... shared something or other acct (undecided at this point) .... the shared something or other one of us would be acct owner and there are tax implications... so we need to discuss it ... Will probably go the way of QIT. gotta decide.
There is a social worker as part of their services ... and she will ...we signed on for that ... She will do a lot ... one of the things ... is to get MIL's records... and do a an assessment as to need .. and advocate .. as well as work with MIL to digest on what's going on.
So much ... a lot of ground covered.
How is DH handling things?
And is the SW also part of the plan to convince MIL sign the DPOA? Is there a backup plan if she says no?
DH did fine there, chimed in appropriately, asked questions ... did fine.
After, he and I <Not SIL & B> went for wings and a beer and he got choked up a couple of times ..but not like yesterday where there was ... pretty much a solemn impetuous man child, nothing you say sinking in.
I'm very very glad to have as part of their team, a SW.
SW will help going forward
1. Getting med records to help assess need and advocate for same as part of inter-disciplinary team.
2. Will help MIL work thru and digest this path she now must follow.
Im guessing also .. tho it was only kinda lightly touched on ... works with these facilities and kinda grease the path as to entry (barring $'s.... she's not a miracle worker that makes dollars appear out of thin air ..ergo...won't be a country club by any stretch) but can help as far as helping to navigate as to getting into whatever is affordable (real limitations on that .. options aren't wide), and help to navigate and advocate as to what MIL's needs are in whatever setting.
Valuable stuff IMO.
Atty will be completing a new will as there is one ... really old ... has estranged brother as recipient (she has nothing really ...but I guess what she does have and wishes to be handed off ...needs to be in a will).
Thats gunna cause her a bunch of strife (wouldn't if it was me, cross him off ... where ever his name is, but I'm not 89 and foggy brained). Her ... it will ... she'll anguish and wring her hands over whether he should be given that gas grill in her back yard .. or that 20 yo lawn mower (like I said .. she really doesn't have anything per se) but the above will cause her way more grief than is necessary.
Good job, Dorker!
I mentioned the SW at present site...at the one and only meeting we'd had there, 3 days in, said she won't qualify medically for SNF.
They indicated that can be changed and they will look at it all.
They will also ... going forward help navigate VA Aids and Attendants stipend MIL entitled to and as to ... the ins and outs there.
Were she receiving it presently (she is not) it would throw her over the monthly allowed as to Medicaid
But they have more knowledge on how to make that part of the whole picture... stuff way above my pay grade.
Water under the bridge.
So glad that you're getting great advice now!!!!
$20/hr x 24 hours a day x 30 days a month.
Wouldnt have made that difference.
It might have eased the burden THEN. As I said, water under the bridge.
Not allowable at all as to NH tho. But is .. reduced tho .. as to AL.
That's what I gathered
But it was a LOT of info...ENORMOUS!
So if it will be a DPOA, H and SIL can sign documents, but can't MIL, also? What happens if MIL decides to sign herself out of the LTC facility she will be transferred to after rehab? Can't she basically still undo anything H or SIL do under their DPOA powers?
What did the attorney say about MIL's competency? Or do you think she is cognitively impaired enough at this point to not realize that she still has the right to make decisions?
Did H seem okay with all that happened yesterday? HE isn't going to be the one to derail everything, is he?
When will the papers be presented to MIL to sign giving DPOA to H and SIL?
SW won't be pulling together, all she'd need as to recommendation for placement, not by tomorrow.
I have to revisit that whole VA Aids & Attendants thing .. I would've sworn that's what they talked about, a reduction in what one receives .. but nonetheless entitled to it .. a portion thereof (unless a NH resident, doesn't pay at all for nursing home).
Ya know I have pondered a lot about that, with MIL still able to sign for herself, and yes she still can. She is not at all on board for this whole thing. I ponder about it, .. and .. ya know if it were me, this day and age, right here, right now, and nothing I wanted to have any part of .. and my kids/DH .. insisting the time has come .. I could/would in fact, sign myself right out of there, . and I'd catch an UBER or whatever .. I wouldn't sign for it .. I'd spring myself. If it was something I'm not at all interested in.
I watch as this all transpires with MIL. Her not on board for this, and of the mindset she and her little doggie want to be in her home. She is sad .. despairing .. solemn .. not at all reserved to the whole thing .. and pretty much .. (she's too old and frail to be railing and yelling and throwing things) .. just really knocked back by this whole premise .. and not all that accepting of it. All while she watches the united front of those who are her support system .. resolute in that path. I've wondered, ... and it's evidence to me of her lack of mental acuity. As I pointed out in conversation with SIL yesterday .. "ya know .. she is so against this . and so saddened and knocked back by it, and doesn't want to do this .. she could . if she had the mental acuity to do it .. she could get herself right out of this .. she could refuse to sign anything .. nobody has found her to be incompetent . not yet anyway .. she could refuse to sign for it .. and if found in that setting anyway, could phone for a taxi . and be right on back in her home, and there's nothing anyone could do about it .. but she doesn't have the processing skills at this point .. to be able to achieve that. It's either that, .. or she does indeed realize on some level (she'd deny that) . that she does need LOADS OF HELP .. to even be alive and up and among the living .. maybe on some level she does realize that .. and is just playing the whole sympathy thing .. in the hopes that the united front will crack.
SIL agrees she no longer has the mental sharpness to be able to circumvent this whole thing. I do too.
Was interesting sharing with the SW yesterday who asked, .. how does she feel about this transition. Well you can imagine the SW got an earful .. from all of us .. that she is resistant, not accepting, sad, sullen .. thinks she can go home, etc etc. SIL pointing out to her, that the mother keeps saying things like, "I'm working really hard here, to get strong enough to go home" . and having to be reminded .. yes it's important you keep working to be strong . but going home is no longer an option mother. The SW then saying, "She's manipulating you with guilt . it's not uncommon . it happens a lot in these kinds of things .. ".
I didn't chime in . .but I just don't see that .. to me . it seems . that MIL is not high enough functioning to be able to hatch any "manipulation". To me, it seems more rote .. it's just .. it's not what she wants, .. her scrambled brain tells her she can live alone . period .. she isn't plotting and conniving to "manipulate". I just don't see it. But ... I thought that was interesting. Nevertheless .. the SW will try to help her digest and come to terms with the process about to transpire. As she put it .. she can say those things to me, but it doesn't pull at my heart.
I will be SO interested to hear her take on things . once she's spent some time with MIL, gone over her
Gone over her records, .. etc. The determination she comes to, as to MIL's state of being.
For instance, . yesterday .. SIL called her mom on the way home from the doc in the box (she's no longer coughing as much as she was, . and not as hoarse, but still hoarse .. and .. just completely wrung out {stays wrung out, wakes up that way}... has no energy level . so finally caved in and went to a doc in the box after the atty meeting, dx there, a bronchial infection, rx'd a steroid and an antibiotic).
Called her mom . having not seen her yesterday at all, .. atty meeting .. and then doc in the box.
SIL: "I told her I had finally gone to the doc .. I just can't seem to get well, .. she said she'd had a horrible day .. that she just hasn't felt well, can't sleep .. can't ever sleep .. that this has all so rocked her to her core . and she can't eat .. and has some pain in her chest that she told the nurse about . and asked for a sleeping aid, I hate this for her, she declined any PT/OT there today . just wasn't up to it .... didn't feel like it, ... I hope they don't throw her outta there, if she's not participating .. we got her stay there extended because she'd been sidelined with that gout episode .. and unable to participate .. but now if she's not gonna be motivated to do it .. it may get her thrown outta there".
Me: "Maybe if she can grab ahold of and grasp the concept it's gonna be absolutely essential that she get up and get dressed every day (she'd reported that she'd dressed herself yesterday to SIL, the day before and the day before that, she'd not done so), if she will get up every morning and get dressed and it's gonna be crucial that she participate and get stronger, .. she's gonna have to be to go to Fancy Pants ..she's gotta be more with it, and doing, to go to Fancy Pants .. .if she can't do that . maybe if she can grasp that".
SIL: "I think she's giving up".
I'm assuming all of this is being documented. It will be seen by the SW, I would guess. Did talk yesterday .. at that meeting .. some on the whole FP vs the "we're all family" site. They are familiar with both .. and they really like, hear good things about, "We're all family here" .. they said .. just from what they hear about MIL . .and her abilities . that they don't think her suitable for FP .. but will look at it all.
They recommended another couple of places to go look at for an ultimate site (but interesting to note, the choices aren't that many, when it's medicaid . it just is what it is). But did point out . of the two other choices they cited . as to AL . .(they aren't convinced SNF isn't more the path this needs to be) .. that of the two choices, one of them you will see a lot of cognitive impairment, the other one . you just won't get the help . if you're gonna get upset when your LO calls for help and it's not coming right away then it's not the place for you.
They do "like" and hear good things, . know the administrators, etc .. at the Purgatory place, . yes .. lots of cognitive impairment there in the population . but that's going to be the setting almost anywhere that she would land. And their response . "Some of this can be addressed via coaching as to expectations".
I asked them to elaborate on that "coaching" piece, is this family to coach or her, the SW. That we've tried to do so and are getting nowhere .. and she then said . that's not uncommon . sometime they can't "hear it" from family but can from outsiders.
It will be interesting to me to watch this piece of it unfold. Because we all agree, .. she will N.E.V.E.R embrace and accept this .. I don't care if JC himself walked in and told here the path forward . she'd argue with Jesus Christ that this needs to occur. It's not gonna happen. Told the SW that . and she said .. "some never do .. unfortunately .. the NH's are full of people that will tell you their kids are mean and they can go home . they can manage,"
I also learned a couple of years ago, if a person like MIL refuses to sign a POA and insists on being at home, they truly can do what they want, ultimately. My relative was making horrible choices and wanting/expecting all in her orbit to give up our lives and take care of her. SW told me if my relative was pretty much bedridden and laying in her own filth, if she refused to leave her home, there was really nothing we could do.
The fact that MIL could refuse to sign documents, sign herself out of a facility, call a cab is a concern. It will remain a concern until she can’t put those thoughts together. I’m not sure she is there yet.
I am sure the attorneys office have run into Elders not wanting to sign documents and they will know how to handle this much better than emotional children of the Elder.
Never underestimate a person with Dementia ability to manipulate. My Mother retained that tool well into her disease.
I think MIL telling SIL to go home to IL and leave her and doggy home alone is manipulation. MIL knows SIL isnt going anywhere until MIL is safe.
And since SIL is holding strong on the placement MIL starts working on DH. I strongly believe MIL still has the ability to manipulate.
The fact that MIL has probably never been in a taxi is helpful. It just wouldn’t occur to her to utilize that service. If she was going to plan an escape she would expect to be carted by family.
Taxi Services just aren’t utilized in our 70,000ish town. Especially by the older generation...never. One taxi service with 2 cabs. Let’s hope the thought never occurs to her.
Do I think DH is doing better or will he de-rail everything. DH has all his mental capabilities .. supposedly . that I know of .. and for him to de-rail anything here, . I guess he better figure what bridge he and his mom will then go live under for him to care for her, because he'd be alone in that endeavor . and I'm supposing he knows that.
Go sign her out of wherever, "GOD FORSAKEN" as he puts it, place . and then what? Take her to her beloved home and then what DH . you gonna quit work . to be her round the clock c'giver .. you gonna quit your churching/hunting .. so you can be her round the clock c'giver .. He does have the mental faculties to realize that isn't plausible. Yes he can spout off and "WISH" it didn't have to be this way .. and lament that it breaks his heart, and on and on .. but .. he has enough mental capacity to come to the conclusion . absent anyone in her home caring for her .. .there are no options.
It had been pointed out that had she become Medicaid . at home .. she'd of been entitled to 8 hours daily of in home care, under Medicaid. That then brought forth the question of what to do about the other 16 hours of the day .. and the given .. she can't be alone . needs more care, .. SIL even chiming in .. I don't even think if I lived next door to her, that would be sufficient . she needs someone there on site . around the clock. This all said in that meeting, DH there, present . listening.
The atty pointed out .. that in rare cases where there is money to burn .. and people willing to do it . it works out, to have around the clock c'givers .. maybe that VA Aids and Attendants kicks in . the Medicaid stipend for 8 hours daily and the money burning a hole in someone's pocket . and you get round the clock care, .. very expensive . and not all that reliable and dependable .. and that has it's own set of troubles that someone needs to be nearby to manage .. but in rare cases it does work .. but she doesn't have the resources, .. and he looked up at all of us . ".. and I assume none of you have tens of thousands to throw at this to piece all that together". We confirmed that .. and he said, "generally speaking . . once a person gets to the point it's not suitable they be left alone at all, .. it's more economically viable they be placed . rather than in home, round the clock care".
Concur.
DH was there, .. he was engaged, . he was listening . he is sharp mentally (at least in my observation) . and so .. the logical conclusion there, . b*tch and wale and moan all you want . that this is her lot now in life .. doesn't change it .. and he didn't b*tch/moan/wale.
Yesterday .. much like MIL .. he is vacillating back and forth .. he didn't go see his mom yesterday .. and he even said (yesterday was a better day for him) . he even said, . .as we sat and had wings and beer after the atty meeting, just he and I .. he said the words, .. "this is tough .. but .. I just gotta man up and see it through".
Today . won't be good .. he's intending to go see his mom today . and so that always brings him back to the sadness of .. "Why do we have to do this .. I'm just gonna go get her . and take her to tiny town".
My challenge in that is gonna be to .. "yes dear, I know .. but necessary" . to which he'll likely lament/argue some .. so forth . and just walk away and not be sucked into that vortex.
Even SIL imparts that she's finding it difficult to even call/visit her, .. with all the woe with me . and her protests over it all . that she finds herself (she's not one given to anger, when she damn well should find that gene and activate it) .. it even makes her angry . and she just bites her tongue and lets her mom vent/rant/rail .. and counters, as best she can .. and justifies .. yet again .. and on and on it goes. Angers her.
But no, I don't see DH de-railing it all.