I've posted before about in-law care-giving. Aged mother in law, lives in same town.
We are at the tail end of a visit from sister in law from several states away. Sister in law has been here for 3 weeks caring for her mother. A much welcome respite.
It had been discussed, prior to her arrival here on the scene, she would be talking it over with her mother, to try and get her mom to come up to her home, for a stay of maybe a few months.
This, in my opinion, is absolutely essential, as I am expecting twin grand-children, due in about 1 month (if they don't come sooner, as is the case a lot of times with multiples pregnancies). The expectant mother also lives locally here, and has a 4 year old daughter. I will be on that front, helping .. as much as is needed. And not on the front with mother in law and care-giving, and have made that as obvious and apparent as I know how to make it. It would be great if mother in law would agree to go to her daughter's home (several states away) for a period of a few months .. and allow me the latitude to put my energies where I want them to be, on my daughter who will have had a c-section .. and my grand-daughter (4 years old) and new twin babies.
Nothing doing. Mother in law has dug in her heels, and will not hear of it, going to stay with her daughter for any period of time.
What are her reasons?
In mother in law's defense ... her daughter ... I don't even know how to describe it. I will say that when her daughter comes here to visit, she all but breathes for her mother and if she could find a way to do that, she'd do that too. She is the most nervous nelly, never sit down - ever ... worry wart, do everything, all the time .. person that I've ever encountered.
A great example, as I was taking her to the airport yesterday for her departure, . I reached into the fridge to grab myself a bottled water and shut the fridge and turned to walk away, as I've done for all of my 50 plus years living on this earth .. and she said to me, "Oh make sure that fridge shut". WTH???? Like I don't know how to shut a fridge? That's just a small, very small slice of what she is ... how she is.
She is so very hyper-vigilant, seeing to every minute details down to it's finest most minuscule point, fine tooth comb, questioning every point along the way, "should we do thus and so, but maybe if we do thus and so, then such and such will happen, maybe we should do it thus and so .. but then so and so might happen, maybe we shouldn't do thus and so, but do "x" "y" and "z" instead, but if we don't do it that way then ..........", on and on and on and on it goes. And usually in hyper warp speed, as to every single friggin thing.
If her mother moans .. "what's wrong mother?, why did you moan, are you alright?".
Mother: "Yes, I'm fine, I was just sighing out loud".
Sister: "Why did you sigh? Are you hurting, are you sure you're alright, why are you sighing what's the matter?"
Mother: "For God's sake __________________, I was just sighing, .. calm down, I'm fine".
Sister: "Are you sure, .. because if something is wrong you need to tell me".
Mother: "Everything is fine, I'm fine".
Sister: "Are you sure, we did a lot yesterday, did we do too much, maybe we shouldn't of gone to two doctors in one day .. was that too much for you, are you too tired now, maybe we need to move those other doctor appointments so we won't have two in one day, is that too much for you, for one day .. is that why you were sighing .. what's wrong, are you sure you're alright".
Hopefully that kinda gives a little bit of a snapshot of what goes on when sister is in the ring directing things.
So in mother in law's defense.. I do get it, why she wouldn't be chomping at the bit to go to her daughter's home.
BUT ....
The only experience she has with her daughter, in the last years as mother in law has aged and been unable to go anywhere much, has been the daughter coming here, periodically, for periods of about 3 weeks at a stretch. When her daughter comes here, she moves heaven and earth for her mother and then some, and doesn't sit down, doesn't stop .. the WHOLE ENTIRE TIME.
Is there a possibility maybe (as I said to mother in law, when she expressed that isn't happening - talking to me - her going to her daughters .. ever) .. could it be possible that maybe if you would go to where she lives .. she'd be more busy managing her own life in that setting than your's and she would get out of your backside .. and not be as hyper-drive-vigilant as you experience in her, when she's here, could that be possible.
The daughter is retired, lives several states away. Does come here, generally, every few months .. and stays for a period of about 3 weeks at a stretch. I wish I could make a list of everything the daughter did when here this last time, but it would take up the whole character allotment:
She could tell her that this place has been a godsend for her, an outlet to share and to vent, where she has established some very good and helpful online friendships, which I have found is difficult to truly explain to outsiders, until they see it for themselves (they just don't understand why I would wish to share my life with internet strangers, but SIL may find this site extremely helpful in many ways, and not only for this wonderful thread, but for so many others, and she could even start her own thread, "Caring for Mother from several states away", although that one has been done several times over the years.
I don"t recall many instances wher Dorker has reall lambasted SIL, told the truth, very fruatrated Yes, but not out and out disrespected her, as we all have our own version of the story, and SIL would have hers too, but I do see where Dorker would not like to share her sanctuary place, her quiet place to vent this whole Saga.
Too bad really, SIL could learn a lot from you all!
SIL doesn't seem to be willing to change. An Internet community won't substitute for the psychological help that she so needs in her dealings with her narcissistic mother. Who's to say she would spend the time to participate? I don't think she would even want to participate.
Sadly, this whole saga is so similar to how things went with my mom, all during the time this thread was created. Your thread was my nightly wind-down, after long days of dealing with the constant fire alarms. It was just me and my DH (who helped where he could) dealing with it, but must say that it did help me to vent to my out-of-state sisters on the phone, so hopefully you can continue to allow that, seeing it for what it is, and work through the frustration of it.
Because of my own experience, this is why I was so set against the return to FL. SIL would have been so much more comfortable handling this in her own domain. My fantasy thoughts of comfortably settling mom into a happy AL and backing off never materialized, beyond a few intermittent days at a time. The fire alarms never really backed off. It all only accelerated worse and worse until the sudden finale and the denoument of arrangements and legal stuff after, which has now just ended for me.
Also - I just don't feel that SIL sounds like the type to actually seek out and benefit from a forum. (could be wrong) Some people do, some just don't. I do admire us researchers, though - it is so very helpful! I'm sure you help SIL more than you know simply by planting the seeds of your wisdom. You get yourself well now, OK? <3
Also FWIW ... I remember suggesting to SIL way back when, talk to doc about referral for counseling and for anti depressant. That got ignored.
Now however, attending doc at POSH has her started on an anti depressant and has a referral for counseling to begin.
I have a question...since MIL's been in the hospital and rehab, do SIL and B do all the ridiculous and unnecessary Poochy pampering? Does B wipe Poochys butt all the time? What will happen when B is at his sister's funeral? Can SIL and B ever get a good night's sleep with that dog's need to be let out multiple times during the night?
There are other forums for caregivers - maybe SIL can find one local to her in FL. We want to keep YOU.
Poor B and his sister _ your SIL seriously is going to have a stroke or something
But then again, I could be wrong.
As of yesterday also, as to MIL, POSH attending MD referring for counseling for MIL.
I agree SIL could use the same. I've told her SO many times, "you need to be on tranquilizers.. every day".
Yes, B is wiping Poochy backside numerous times daily. In fact, he can't do it, his hands tremble too much, but SIL doctoring at least 2 x's daily a recurring sore on poochy's gums. With every other plate she spins .. Poochy need yet another one.
And she says he wakes her *sometimes* at night to go out.
I guess on the night's she has camped out in the hospital with MIL, if Poochy needed out, maybe he succeeded in waking B. But in general a bomb detonating by his pillow wouldn't wake him. So not sure how all that works.
Im humbled, never won anything before.
In fact, as others have mentioned- I honestly think there is real potential for a book. Some clever narratives and a little editing and it could serve as a valuable guide as what to do and what not to do when it comes to preparing for old age and in being a caregiver.
It is so kind of you to answer those of us(me) with the title again for SIL' s daughter. I did go back to the beginning and read the first 50 pages. I then felt I at least I had enough of the history to not be too annoying. It was fascinating reading.
Perish the thought but I sometimes wonder what we will all do when the leading participant is no longer with us.
I hope it provides you with what you need to continue this journey in the manner that suits you best.
I also can't really imagine SIL reporting here. I felt a glimmer of hope just before the fall when she was telling her mother what had to be regarding placement for the future. I do wish she would seek help. I find myself wondering what life was like growing up for the three offspring of MIL. Was there always an element of such need in whatever form that went unanswered?
🏆👵
OD .. with her own very real struggles to keep her head above true "DEPRESSION" as a part of her daily existence. And it's well known about OD . that she has been involuntarily detained several times . in a psych ward . (not recently thankfully) for homicide/suicide ideation. Her's are real struggles. And ones she is vocal about . she doesn't mind sharing her strife.
Doesn't come around a whole lot, a loner .. but .. when/if she is in the throes of her pits of despair you see even less of her...
She had gone to see her granny .. in the days (prior to broken hip) .. and her granny sharing with her, her own dark thoughts .. and how she ponders if she could've just taken her own life .. and so on.
This .. I now find out talking to OD .. who has surfaced .. I guess in a sense .. looking to me to explain why we all feel the need to lock granny away in a home, and her own tears .. as she struggles to watch her sweet old granny in such a sad state.
I wish her sad ole granny would keep her dark thoughts to herself. There was a time that granny was able to do that . and be the encouragement that OD needed. That ship has sailed. Long ago.
MIL has no filters anymore, nor is she of the ilk to be of "support" to anyone .. in her own misery and sorrow these days, at having to contemplate placement. That's all the poor ole soul can see, her own misery. Has no filter any longer to have any clarity that this particular soul .. "OD" is not one to confide these deep dark mentalities to.
There's nothing I can do about it, .. I can't sit sentry by MIL .. to make sure that all dialogue that might ensue is appropriate dialogue. OD is an adult . has been for a long time . and can come and go as she sees fit to see her granny.
Her granny, (fortunately) has not mentioned . not since she fell and broke her hip, any notion that she shouldn't have to do this. Unclear if that's because she too now realizes it's going to have to be her reality (doubtful) or if it's because breaking her hip has taken her to a whole new low as far as her health and well being . and so what happens tomorrow, is so out in front of the here and now . it's off her radar. Not clear. But whatever.
It's just .. it takes OD to a whole other level of low herself. But as I said to OD . "ya know . there's something you need to keep in mind here, .. she's had a good 15 or so years in that house . .she wouldn't of had . .were it not for the support of all of us ... and myself on the front of that .. when SIL wasn't here .. and .. her needs have increased . .and it's simple math . she can't pay for round the clock care in her home, and we can't either . .and none of us can throw away our lives to do it .. and so this is as it has to be".
I think in the end .. my talking to OD about it all, kind pulled her out of the doldrums she's experiencing in it all. I just wish that I somehow had an ability to limit what MIL shares as to her own despair, .. at least with OD. But there isn't .. I don't have that power.
Regarding SIL's over-the-top pampering of Poochy, it is surprising she does it. Wasn't it SIL's dog that MIL had euthanized because it was too much trouble years ago?
Fast forward a few years, DH now launched.
The dog ultimately euthanized. At that point in MIL's journey, appendages were to be jettisoned. Now free of the last of any offspring at home and didn't want to be responsible for any other entity.
The very station I'm at and thus no interest in housing high maintenance Poochy on her behalf.
Thank goodness SIL is the way she is and doesn't hold a grudge that would be 40 years old at this point. Otherwise Poochy might meet that same fate.
Dorker I think that was exactly right what you did to explain MILs situation as a financial one.
The simplest explanation is the best and it happens to be the truth.
Reality is very grounding.
Good job running interference and helping OD come to terms with grannies future.
In my book, your family wins the trophy for being exemplars of good people running up against the pointy end of the human condition. No monsters or criminals, not even especially dysfunctional (there are some right ones out there on the forum, lest we forget). Your thread is a complete saga on What Can Happen if you haven't thought it through and talked together.
Possibly also with instructive elements of how not to handle what can happen, in certain sections..!
MIL was in hospital o'nite .. for the fiasco of the whole transfusion thing. That was done, she was kept o'nite at the hopsital for observation.
So fast forward to yesterday AM. Assumption that she'd be discharged back to POSH.
Talking to SIL yesterday AM as she was preparing to head to the hospital . and from there, I guess be on site .. to do whatever it is that SIL thinks she needs to do . as to the xfer to POSH. That's when SIL had mentioned that B's sister did die . and that he is to fly out this weekend to St. Louis. I tried to encourage her to go with him . and she even entertained that notion momentarily. In the end, however, her husband nixed that .. telling her to stay here, she's needed here by her mom . and he doesn't wanna get mixed up with all the need here on this end, . and have her with him in St. Louis and some calamity befall the whole thing on this end .. so just stay here and deal with your mom and I'll go on to St. Louis for the funeral.
So SIL then on her way at that point to hospital to do whatever it is that SIL does .. as to all these things.
Me not on the scene .. bronchitis .. I'm staying away. DH not on the scene .. he is behind in his work .. from all the comings and goings as to his mom . and so him yesterday very much sunk in his work and trying to make headway.
MIL's hemoglobin up to a 9.5 (actually had been a 10 the night before, so 9.5 . was a drop of a bit) .. I asked if that's considered a problem and no .. it will fluctuate some .. needs to eat some red meats, . leafy green veggies, . .. but yes, would be xfer'd back to POSH at some point, SIL on site there at the hospital with her mom.
Sounds like PT came by .. and for the first time (maybe because of the transfusion and that also resulting in some rise now in what had been previously too low of BP) .. they were able to get her up .. and onto the walker, and to stand for 1 minute. That's new. That hasn't happened before, her being too light headed and nauseous to stand . .to even be upright.
So .. xfer now on order, back to POSH she is to go .. and so that did take place in the afternoon . and SIL on site for xfer.
Went off with no hitches. Her back into POSH now.
SIL stayed a bit longer, to help her with her food tray for dinner .. (she struggles with .. as maybe a lot of old people .. and I guess not all old people have hoverers see to such) .. she struggles with things like opening the carton of milk . peeling back the little aluminum top off the applesauce .. opening the little packet of plastic ware .. salt and pepper packets that kinda thing . and cutting up her foods. SIL on site to see to same for her, for the dinner tray.
About that time YD arrived to visit her granny .. and so SIL said her g'byes and left YD with it, and SIL headed on home.
SIL called me . on her way home . remarked that she thinks she'll be okay for the night (my thought .. and if she isn't .. she'll still be fine, she's in a facility with hired skilled trained professionals but okay whatever). SIL remarking that her mom . .while maybe not as confused as we have seen .. has absolutely zero as to time . .and how that works . her short term memory is shot all to h377.
Goes about like this as related by SIL in conversation to me:
SIL: "So I was preparing to leave, YD there to visit . and she says to me "But you just got here". I said mother, .. I didn't just get here, . .it's 6:30 .. I got here at 10 this morning . don't you remember you were eating your breakfast try and I helped you with that and the doctor came in and we talked to him . and then I ordered your lunch tray and helped you with that .. and it's now 6:30 .. I've been here almost all day".
I don't know what her mother said in response if anything .. but point being .. "time" is a loss to her. I guess in MIL's experience of it all .. SIL just got there .. even though in all reality