I've posted before about in-law care-giving. Aged mother in law, lives in same town.
We are at the tail end of a visit from sister in law from several states away. Sister in law has been here for 3 weeks caring for her mother. A much welcome respite.
It had been discussed, prior to her arrival here on the scene, she would be talking it over with her mother, to try and get her mom to come up to her home, for a stay of maybe a few months.
This, in my opinion, is absolutely essential, as I am expecting twin grand-children, due in about 1 month (if they don't come sooner, as is the case a lot of times with multiples pregnancies). The expectant mother also lives locally here, and has a 4 year old daughter. I will be on that front, helping .. as much as is needed. And not on the front with mother in law and care-giving, and have made that as obvious and apparent as I know how to make it. It would be great if mother in law would agree to go to her daughter's home (several states away) for a period of a few months .. and allow me the latitude to put my energies where I want them to be, on my daughter who will have had a c-section .. and my grand-daughter (4 years old) and new twin babies.
Nothing doing. Mother in law has dug in her heels, and will not hear of it, going to stay with her daughter for any period of time.
What are her reasons?
In mother in law's defense ... her daughter ... I don't even know how to describe it. I will say that when her daughter comes here to visit, she all but breathes for her mother and if she could find a way to do that, she'd do that too. She is the most nervous nelly, never sit down - ever ... worry wart, do everything, all the time .. person that I've ever encountered.
A great example, as I was taking her to the airport yesterday for her departure, . I reached into the fridge to grab myself a bottled water and shut the fridge and turned to walk away, as I've done for all of my 50 plus years living on this earth .. and she said to me, "Oh make sure that fridge shut". WTH???? Like I don't know how to shut a fridge? That's just a small, very small slice of what she is ... how she is.
She is so very hyper-vigilant, seeing to every minute details down to it's finest most minuscule point, fine tooth comb, questioning every point along the way, "should we do thus and so, but maybe if we do thus and so, then such and such will happen, maybe we should do it thus and so .. but then so and so might happen, maybe we shouldn't do thus and so, but do "x" "y" and "z" instead, but if we don't do it that way then ..........", on and on and on and on it goes. And usually in hyper warp speed, as to every single friggin thing.
If her mother moans .. "what's wrong mother?, why did you moan, are you alright?".
Mother: "Yes, I'm fine, I was just sighing out loud".
Sister: "Why did you sigh? Are you hurting, are you sure you're alright, why are you sighing what's the matter?"
Mother: "For God's sake __________________, I was just sighing, .. calm down, I'm fine".
Sister: "Are you sure, .. because if something is wrong you need to tell me".
Mother: "Everything is fine, I'm fine".
Sister: "Are you sure, we did a lot yesterday, did we do too much, maybe we shouldn't of gone to two doctors in one day .. was that too much for you, are you too tired now, maybe we need to move those other doctor appointments so we won't have two in one day, is that too much for you, for one day .. is that why you were sighing .. what's wrong, are you sure you're alright".
Hopefully that kinda gives a little bit of a snapshot of what goes on when sister is in the ring directing things.
So in mother in law's defense.. I do get it, why she wouldn't be chomping at the bit to go to her daughter's home.
BUT ....
The only experience she has with her daughter, in the last years as mother in law has aged and been unable to go anywhere much, has been the daughter coming here, periodically, for periods of about 3 weeks at a stretch. When her daughter comes here, she moves heaven and earth for her mother and then some, and doesn't sit down, doesn't stop .. the WHOLE ENTIRE TIME.
Is there a possibility maybe (as I said to mother in law, when she expressed that isn't happening - talking to me - her going to her daughters .. ever) .. could it be possible that maybe if you would go to where she lives .. she'd be more busy managing her own life in that setting than your's and she would get out of your backside .. and not be as hyper-drive-vigilant as you experience in her, when she's here, could that be possible.
The daughter is retired, lives several states away. Does come here, generally, every few months .. and stays for a period of about 3 weeks at a stretch. I wish I could make a list of everything the daughter did when here this last time, but it would take up the whole character allotment:
Me: "yes .. it has caused me more anguish than you can imagine'"
And almost 7500 posts on a message board thread! If she only knew...LOL. Will SIL be surprised when she's one of the stars of Dorker's book?
Riverdale, sadly ... I think for myself .. the only way I will find that piece of "reward and reassurance" is .. maybe when "all" are on the page of resolution to this path . and "all" .. maybe have backed away from it, not as enmeshed . and the sadness yea . it'll still be there .. and yea . SIL okay with her mom . not getting her milk shake timely enough . or her Lactaid didn't come but a regular carton of milk (that she doesn't drink any damn way), a million other little idiosyncrasies ..
I'm there, . have been . they may never get there.
I'm okay with it, that she pushes that nurse button (if she even does, who knows) . and no one comes instantly like a Jeannie in a bottle. I'm okay w/that. I realize that it isn't gonna be perfect, . nowhere .. it wasn't even perfect when SIL had her in her care, 1 on 1 .. and she still wasn't happy. I'm okay w/it . she's not gonna be happy ..I'm okay with that ..
I guess if I could see that the others in this .. were "okay with it" . that would to me, provide some of that reassurance and resolution to it all. They may never get there. .. DH may wring his hands at the bottom of that pit . until and even after that cloud comes .. that may be the case.
SIL may wring her hands and so forth . til the cloud comes and beyond . that someone moved MIL's chapstick and she couldn't reach it . and her lips were so dry and painful .. and that .. they can't seem to get it that she needs Lactaid not milk . and that they don't stock baby wipes to wipe bums with .. that no one saw fit to change her shirt that had food stains on it, and so on . all the minutia of it ..
Maybe that will never change. And will I find a way to be okay with *that* and sit with it. I don't know .. I try....
If I could see that the others in this found a place of "it's okay" .. maybe that would then bring resolution in me. But I don't know that it'll ever happen and I too have to realize that. I can't change them, those green chairs that I want to be red chairs .. but it does get frustrating ..
It's like I pointed out to SIL yesterday in our talking that I think she's still too enmeshed in it all, that she needs to back away and let staff deal with MIl more . and not be there all the time, . so someone moved her chapstick . let them see that she doesn't remember to tell them to find it for her, when they come in .. let them see that she doesn't even care that she's in a shirt that has food stains on it . let them see that she hasn't brushed her teeth yet for the day and it's 3 PM . let them see that she doesn't possess the ability anymore to question the AD rx'd . and what it's doing or not doing as to her bowel function .. let them see that she sits in a stupor like the slumpers she so abhors .. no tv on, no magazine being read .. just in a stupor .. let them see it all. They don't because you're there, . engaging her, changing her shirt, .. finding her chapstick .. that you saw missing and asked her about .. because you are getting her teeth brushed .. you are the one raising the issue she hasn't had a shower in weeks .. you're the one, not her .. they need to see what she is and isn't . and they don't . because you're there doing it.
Her response to that, . is more justification of doing so . and it's pointless to even go there .. as M puts it . only she can carve a path for herself of a life without the woes of granny . and I can't change it .. dad can't change it . nobody can but her.. Will she ever? I don't know.
I think just listening and validating how sad it is might be the right thing to do.
With MIL as well. Let the counselor be the one who asks " what did you think was going to happen?" Not you, Dorker. You be the loving wife you are and support him.
Would he go see that counselor with MIL, do you think?
I like that term, .. anticipatory grief . I think you're right.
But what a challenge to sit with and not say "tried to tell ya, saw this coming, where were you?!?!?!?!?!?".
And just instead say the whole .. "yea it's sad, I'm sorry DH . I know it's hard". And not say the opposite. Challenging.
What a long time coming.
Here's wishing you a good day Dorker.
This really would make a good movie.
It must be so hard not to throttle them all, Dorker. Just praise the good, insightful behavior when it occurs. And try to ignore the Lactaid wars.
Maybe DH could be talking with your pastor? Don't they pray together regularly?
Maybe he is feeling guilty - all of the times you tried to get him to visit his mom - just sit down and have a sandwich with her - and he avoided it. Deep down he must know that he dumped the work on you and justified it by churchin'/huntin'/orphan boys campin'/missionary visitors lunchin'/workin'
My dad fought NH placement - until he fell and broke his pelvis. He was an angry man in NH - but we visited him and enjoyed being visitors vs angry burned out caregivers. Over time - he adjusted and appreciated the care he received -he saw that there were multiple people each shift helping with toileting and feeding etc and several times commented "they take good care of me". He enjoyed talking with the different staff members. He was in memory care and enjoyed watching baseball on tv with the guys or playing cards. School kids came in and he loved that. My point - the NH is not a dumping ground. The staff usually are good about helping with adjustments (patient and family) and work with the patient to make them feel at home and important. It is a different home for end of life but still a home.
I hope your MIL can make the adjustment too.
It appears that MIL is playing to different audiences. This is possible even if one has Dementia.
I am sure there are times MIL wants to die. But, it seems those long continuing conversations are reserved for DH. Particularly cruel if he is sitting there with tears in his eyes.
Nucking Futz? Crazy? Don’t rule out crazy like a fox.
I chimed in at that point, saying to DH the same thing I said here, .. "your mother is nucking futz!"..
Interestingly enough . I guess when she was on the 2nd floor rehabbing from the UTI/Diverticulitis . before hip break . she was combative . on the topic of placement, hostile, etc. That has waned. She broke her hip . and I don't know, can't peg it .. is it because she's had so many other peripheral medical issues . or what .. but that combative/hostile/argument . that she doesn't have to do this .. placement . that she can go home . as was so often heard at that point . it has waned.
Maybe the hip break . I'd like to think . has brought about in her a realization that going home is not an option . .. and that indeed .. she needs too much help. I'm not sure and I guess time will tell if they can ever get an adequate handle on all the other peripheral medical issues that keep her so beat down in all this .. but .. you don't hear that anymore, . the argument .. "I can just go home, me and my little doggie". You don't hear that.
What you do hear is her heartbreak . that this is no life she wanted to live .. so on. But it's no longer peppered w/now you guys just let me go to my home".
Not right now ....
DH does routinely pray with and talk to the pastor . and he has been enormously helpful.
He goes to visit MIL briefly even . even though he never really has known her.
DH far more spiritual . though is actions sometimes speak to the contrary .. than I ever have been. I believe, just as he does . but I don't lean in . .. as he does . into the Lord as my support .. as maybe I should . he does. He is very much more spiritual than myself... and finds comfort in reading the bible, etc.
He says this "I don't need a counselor . I have the ultimate helper in my Lord and Jesus Christ my savior". and he believes that.
I tell him as the church lady has told me . when I've expressed to her, . .it's a struggle for him . he struggles to understand why God would leave her in this broken body and spirit and not take her .. and I've shared that with the church lady and her answer to that: "We don't know the reasons why God does what he does, but we do have to trust that God knows what he's doing even though we question it and it makes no sense to us ... if we know the Lord and trust him, we put our trust in him that he knows this path forward and only he understands the reasons".
I've told him that L (church lady) says this ...
It doesn't seem to register .. maybe.
The thought of kids coming to a nursing home . MIL would enjoy that and derive pleasure in it. She asks, to this day . if I go see her, she wants to see pics on my phone of the g'kids and hear of their latest antics. She has always enjoyed children and that continues to this day. That would bring her pleasure.
I do say it to them, but I don't think they believe it .. I see it as possible .. perhaps . more so than they do . that maybe .. in the end, . we will see that your mom finds acceptance in this new purpose in her life . we don't know the next chapter .. but maybe .. we will in the end, see that it was good . that she finds acceptance . and maybe even makes a friend or two . in that setting.
Even DH talking of his church friend June .. and her attitude a good attitude, a woman SIL asked about having met her at our church. June is her name, elderly woman . broken hip several years back . . slumped over on a walker, .. but at church every time the doors open . and a positive attitude .. SIL asking about her . and DH imparting what he knows about her .. Even he said to his sister .. "mom lived too long isolated in her own world . June hasn't .. June is engaged . always has been".
SIL of course, talking to DH from MIL's home and so the conversation then went to, ... from SIL: "And I look around here at all the *STUFF* and all it's gonna take to get rid of it all, and what to do .. OMG .....".
Then talk of the antique spinning wheel. A beauty of a piece for those that like antiques . a big .. authentic old spinning wheel from colonial days . and it is a nice piece, . and we do all enjoy antiques . it's how my home is decorated. I don't want it .. I don't have anywhere to put it ... same with SIL.
That was always supposed to go to EB .. but of course, he's MIA. SIL mentioning what to do about that damned confounded spinning wheel . that she has asked of her TN cousin (who also likes antiques . would she like it and the response yes . she might want it). I said, "that was supposed to go to EB".
SIL then saying .. "yea I will likely have to drive back with whatever I take from here, maybe I'll strap it down to the top of my Highlander . and go by EB's ... and leave it on his front porch and keep on going .. and I look in the closet . and all her stuff . those chickens . those ceramic chickens in the closet .. EB used to line them up .. so that it looked like one was smelling the other's butt .. I need to leave those too on his front porch, and in that same positioning".
She really doesn't have any priceless art works or anything that's worth much other than to her and her memories . and maybe to the kids, such as the stupid ceramic chickens .. or the story of how she came to be in possession of an authentic old spinning wheel used as a decoration piece .. an old authentic steam train bell .. affixed to the deck out back .. (he dad was a train engineer) ... an old antique .. think the days when phones were those oak boxes with the crank handle on the side, mounted to the wall and the speaker on a cord that you take off a hook .. one of those (I already have one just like it, so does SIL .. we don't want it) ..
Just stuff .. none of it priceless works of art, but meaningful to her, . as to how she came to possession of various things . it means something to her .. that it go to those of us who know the stories behind it all .. but . as SIL put it, . "we just can't tell her that we sell it all in a fire sale .. we'll tell her we all took it and divided it up and let her think that we are all .. so so happy to have all here prized possessions".
So true.
The police come by in a big truck to evacuate him. "Oh thank you. But no, God will save me". He prays some more.
A man in a rowboat comes by. "No, God will save me". He sends the boat away.
The waters rise. He prays mightily He clings to the roof of his house. A helicopter hovers above. He shouts " no thanks, God will save me".
The man drowns. He gets to Heaven, soggy and disappointed. He confronts God and asks why he wasn't saved.
God says " I sent the cops, a boat and a helicopter. What were you waiting for, Elijah's chariot?".
God helps those who help themselves.
And often it's a welcome event! Am I horrible to say that??
No, nobody can begin to meet MIL's amazing well of need. SIL is finally waking up to that! Why now, I don't know, but sounds like she is finally seeing and accepting what is inevitable. MIL will be angry and miserable wherever she is finally placed. SIL can do no more but make sure she's in the best place possible and then step away. Let Dh handle the day to day. He has a lot more 'outs' than SIL and has learned to say 'no' and do the things he likes despite some pretty dire moments in MIL's life lately.
And MIL IS NOT ALONE. She will have so many people fussing her. I know it's not SIL and her hang wringing/fussbugetedy ways, but there will be care for her.
I wouldn't hang a lot on anything MIL is saying these days. I wonder how much of what she says to PT/OT is simply "showtiming". My mom sure did that when she was rehabbing from one of her many surgeries. Butter wouldn't melt in her mouth...but around the family, she would grimace and moan and carry on until you wanted to scream. I home PT was the same.
Once I went to mom's and she couldn't hear the doorbell so I went to knock on her front door. I stopped short, b/c could see her in her kitchen, moving about quite well and not using her walker. She didn't appear to be in any pain or distress...so I just watched for a few minutes, amazed. I did get her attention and she met me at the front door, in her walker, slumped over and groaning with the "unbearable pain" from whatever the aching joint du jour was. She is actually somewhere in between needing her walker FT and just needing it for support. I asked YB about it and he said she played the 'aged old woman' for sympathy and not to fall for it. Hard to know, really. Might be worth watching MIL before you actually walk into her room and she if she is playacting just a little.
I know it's really hard to hold your tongue....but you've been able to vent here for 2 years, SIL and DH haven't. They've lived in lala land for years. What you figured out and thought through over the last 2 years has stood you in good stead. Just let them talk and don't lord it over them that you KNEW what was coming down the pike. Just let them come to the light on their own.
I'd be of two minds to send EB anything. I imagine he doesn't even know how bad she is, does he? And doesn't care, either. Every family has one or two of these characters. Again, MIL is not that special.
I know that one day I was talking to this woman whom I had been helping to move. She is now in total stasis--won't make any decisions, all packed up (her home) and nowhere to go and now is facing foreclosure. I got so mad one day I asked her what the H she was WAITING FOR. She said, "I guess an angel to come and direct me". I looked at her and said "Angels look like regular people. You've had more than your fair share". BEING one of those 'angels'--this was flat out offensive to me.
DH has people in his life to help him. He just won't listen because they are not saying what he wants to hear.
I suspect a lot more drama down the road, perhaps another fall--who knows? That's what keeps us coming back for more.
Its deeply ingrained that we know what to say to act appropriate to the specifics of a given setting.
And that was family joking. SIL has no intention to drive out of her way to EB's to deposit so much as a feather on his front porch. Our assumption is, he wants nothing to do with not only his mom but the rest of us too.
And yes I've heard that analogy many times that God sends help in many forms.
He needs to seek help but I can't make him.
Went to visit MIL today and took her some chicken salad from a favorite spot. She did eat some of it and raved at how good it is. She was doing good...for her anyway. Had been showered. Had her hair washed. SIL dried her hair and roller set it for her. Had to make a difference... or I would think, just being showered.
I had to laugh... it's all you can do. She did talk, as she always does, on how much of a struggle this all is ... the whole thing, the injury .. the medical problems that negate PT at times, the struggle to fight past all this .. and for what.
Me: you're right .. this is some tough stuff but ya know ... obviously there's a reason you're still here and maybe we'll see that and it'll be clearer as things move forward. Maybe there is someone whose path you're going to cross and you're going to have some impact somehow... we never know.
MIL: (a stare I thought meant she maybe was contemplating what was said, when she then looked at me and said the following) "you know, you are full of chit!"
I just laughed out loud.
Response from me: "see you havent lost everything ... you've still got your sense of humor".
She laughed.
"The scary news is that had it not been for our constant presence and multiple protests of a release plan to long term skilled nursing care, she would be languishing in long term nursing care now."
Of course, in the tale linked above, there were 4 sibs who apparently wanted to and were available to do rehab-vigil, and they hired someone if there were times none of the sibs were available. And who knows what this woman's medical issues actually were.
Mentioned, in a nutshell, what is going on with MIL. His only comment, really salient, I thought, was that we work so da&n hard to keep these horribly ill patients alive and that this is his JOB, but he does not agree with it. If they want the latest, most expensive or "horrible" tx, they will get it, b./c the patient is the boss.
Again--he disagrees with this--and is a stellar doc, I know.
I asked him what it was that kept people "hoping" for some magical cure and he said it was so varied--but came down mostly to the fear that there is nothing after this life. we belong to a religion that firmly believes in a pre-life and afterlife. Dying is simply "going home". I don't fear it, I fear suffering and being a burden.
He would not impart of his religious beliefs to a patient, he simply cares for all and sundry who are under his care.
He was "in the family" when my YD married him--just beginning his med school/Phd Track and now is just entering his 14th and final year of training. He has been my go-to when DH fell apart, oh, so many times.
I wish you had a calm SIL to guide you through all this, I kind of mentioned MIL's overall condition, and of course you can't take his dx, but he said she's likely got less than 6 months-just too much going on. AS a gastro doc he did surmise there could be a bowel blockage causing the chiatpalooza, and he'd order a ct scan. She's not eating enough to have 'real bowel movements' so she's passing fluid and bile, probably. Doesn't make it any less gross, but he said it could and should be managed better.
Also made the comment that the AD's are probably worthless, and every new med that is introduced into her already raddled body will just be worse and worse for her. His comment "she's be a perfect palliative/hospice care patient".
That was about it--he isn't invested in any way in all this--but my point in talking to him was that I was letting HIM know he's in charge LEGALLY of taking me out of this life if my suffering/QOL is gone.
The peace of knowing I cannot and will not do to my lovely family what MIL has done to yours is very comforting.
Just MO. No more.
Dorker, I'm, thinking you're pretty close to an angel. And you still have such a long way to go before this is over.
AS my gramma always said "You can serve as a positive example or a horrible warning".
Feeling for you as you enter yet another week with no set "placement" and no "hope". Don't think too far ahead. One day at a time.
{{Hugs}}
CTTN, I read the thread you linked to. It's clearly a family that works together. A family that locates competent medical advice and stays the course; dosen't get bogged down in cosmetics ( lotions and potions docs) but looks at the core issue
(in their case, respiratory, in Dorker's MIL's situation, Diarrhea and low blood pressure) that is causing her to fail to rehab. And a relatively cooperative elder.
I also wonder how long this lady will last in AL.
Hope all us well, Dorker. Or as well as can be expected.
SiL and DH really need to have a hard discussion with the doctor about whether hospice is the right level of care for this tired old woman.
I read the thread about the family working together. How nice that would've been. How frustrating it's been absent that family working together. I hope people that have family that do work together and listen to one another's POV .. I hope they realize how very fortunate they all are. It can make a WORLD of difference.
I'm with Barb and think very much so that Hospice is something that should be discussed frankly with the doc .. and then if it's a possibility .. present it to MIL in conjunction with a consult from Hospice folks. I'm not at all sure she would opt out of that path . truly I think she would go that path. But it's not one that's been presented to her, in any way .. and not only that .. I'm not at all sure she is cognitively sound enough at this point to arrive at that idea on her own.
BUT. As SIL put it the other day: "The doctor says she *can* recover from this".
To my response: "If she wants to . maybe . .if she has the will to, maybe .. but I'm not sure she wants to SIL .. she has to fight back from this for what, as she puts it . to go sit in a nursing home somewhere .. she doesn't want to do it".
Ahh but then the mother will have a "good" day (and for her a good day means . she actually eats a bite or three . not much more . never hydrating on her own .. and maybe they come quick enough to suit her, to change her soiled diapers . .and maybe she has enough BP she can actually get upright and participate in PT .. that's a good day). She has a good day . and all are on the upswing that she's gonna be alright.
And then . the SW and the doc .. and so forth add in their two cents: "This is all normal . there will be set backs .. she's going to have medical issues at her age, but it's nothing out of the norm, and we're addressing it . and .. it's normal for her to have these hard times grappling with her new reality . she's going to have those, but it will get better". So they hang their hats on that . and onward it goes . to more bad days, more despair, more despondence, more BP that negates PT .. more not fast enough help .. more despair, dread of what is to come .. and no appetite, never hydrating on her own . sans someone prompting it.
I'd gone yesterday to visit MIL and things were relatively "okay" . even had a few laughs .. she wasn't despondent and in despair . mostly.
But then fast forward to evening . and YD went to see her . and it was all doom and gloom and despair, tears . so forth for YD's visit.
I have no idea what today has entailed. I haven't been there, haven't called, SIL hasn't provided any update, .. as she's off . on the road today . something she has to handle for her son (who lives on the other side of the world) some banking business she has to deal with on her son's behalf . and there is no local branch of that specific bank . .she's had to travel about two hours south of here, to find that specific branch . and deal with whatever the banking issue is. I'm sure she's been in touch with her mom, but no plans that I know of on her part, to visit her mom today . as she handles her son's banking issues out of town.
DH was up and gone this morning before the sun was up . on a job that he's trying to make headway on, so I know he hasn't gone to see his mom today.
Maybe no news is good news, but somehow I doubt it.
I wish they would at least entertain the notion of Hospice and at least check it out as an option. Doesn't seem to be on their radar.
I do know that she is .. oh how do you even describe it .. getting her upright .. terrifies her .. I guess it would be about like if you stood me out on the ledge of a bldg about 40 stories high .... I'd be absolutely utterly terrified and would likely make all the gasps and such associated .. as she does when they attempt to upright her. She does indeed . it terrifies her. She does it, as as long as she is allowed .. pending BP readings . she does it . thru many gasps and horrors of it all, . she does do it .. but .. it absolutely terrifies her.
So it isn't out of the realm of possibility that the BP dropping out . .maybe has something to do with that terror.
Was reading about it, the term: "orthostatic hypotension".
Maybe that heart failure issue needs a closer look to see if it's playing any part of this continual low BP.
I can suggest that.
The only reason I haven't linked it to SIL to look at it, is because it lists also . one of the contributors *can be* the use of anti depressants .. oy vey! SIL would hang her hat on that one and then direct the MD (as if she's the know all end all on such things) to discontinue it's use. The MD already said . when she tried that, . .let's discontinue the AD .. her thinking it the culprit for the chitapalooza . the MD declined to discontinue it's use . thinking she badly needs AD on board. So now she'd go directing that show .. that the AD is the culprit . when there are so many other items that could be at play with what's going on. Also the use of diuretics .. can be a contributor to low BP .. but she hasn't been on Lasix .. not while hospitalized and in Rehab, hasn't needed it.