I've posted before about in-law care-giving. Aged mother in law, lives in same town.
We are at the tail end of a visit from sister in law from several states away. Sister in law has been here for 3 weeks caring for her mother. A much welcome respite.
It had been discussed, prior to her arrival here on the scene, she would be talking it over with her mother, to try and get her mom to come up to her home, for a stay of maybe a few months.
This, in my opinion, is absolutely essential, as I am expecting twin grand-children, due in about 1 month (if they don't come sooner, as is the case a lot of times with multiples pregnancies). The expectant mother also lives locally here, and has a 4 year old daughter. I will be on that front, helping .. as much as is needed. And not on the front with mother in law and care-giving, and have made that as obvious and apparent as I know how to make it. It would be great if mother in law would agree to go to her daughter's home (several states away) for a period of a few months .. and allow me the latitude to put my energies where I want them to be, on my daughter who will have had a c-section .. and my grand-daughter (4 years old) and new twin babies.
Nothing doing. Mother in law has dug in her heels, and will not hear of it, going to stay with her daughter for any period of time.
What are her reasons?
In mother in law's defense ... her daughter ... I don't even know how to describe it. I will say that when her daughter comes here to visit, she all but breathes for her mother and if she could find a way to do that, she'd do that too. She is the most nervous nelly, never sit down - ever ... worry wart, do everything, all the time .. person that I've ever encountered.
A great example, as I was taking her to the airport yesterday for her departure, . I reached into the fridge to grab myself a bottled water and shut the fridge and turned to walk away, as I've done for all of my 50 plus years living on this earth .. and she said to me, "Oh make sure that fridge shut". WTH???? Like I don't know how to shut a fridge? That's just a small, very small slice of what she is ... how she is.
She is so very hyper-vigilant, seeing to every minute details down to it's finest most minuscule point, fine tooth comb, questioning every point along the way, "should we do thus and so, but maybe if we do thus and so, then such and such will happen, maybe we should do it thus and so .. but then so and so might happen, maybe we shouldn't do thus and so, but do "x" "y" and "z" instead, but if we don't do it that way then ..........", on and on and on and on it goes. And usually in hyper warp speed, as to every single friggin thing.
If her mother moans .. "what's wrong mother?, why did you moan, are you alright?".
Mother: "Yes, I'm fine, I was just sighing out loud".
Sister: "Why did you sigh? Are you hurting, are you sure you're alright, why are you sighing what's the matter?"
Mother: "For God's sake __________________, I was just sighing, .. calm down, I'm fine".
Sister: "Are you sure, .. because if something is wrong you need to tell me".
Mother: "Everything is fine, I'm fine".
Sister: "Are you sure, we did a lot yesterday, did we do too much, maybe we shouldn't of gone to two doctors in one day .. was that too much for you, are you too tired now, maybe we need to move those other doctor appointments so we won't have two in one day, is that too much for you, for one day .. is that why you were sighing .. what's wrong, are you sure you're alright".
Hopefully that kinda gives a little bit of a snapshot of what goes on when sister is in the ring directing things.
So in mother in law's defense.. I do get it, why she wouldn't be chomping at the bit to go to her daughter's home.
BUT ....
The only experience she has with her daughter, in the last years as mother in law has aged and been unable to go anywhere much, has been the daughter coming here, periodically, for periods of about 3 weeks at a stretch. When her daughter comes here, she moves heaven and earth for her mother and then some, and doesn't sit down, doesn't stop .. the WHOLE ENTIRE TIME.
Is there a possibility maybe (as I said to mother in law, when she expressed that isn't happening - talking to me - her going to her daughters .. ever) .. could it be possible that maybe if you would go to where she lives .. she'd be more busy managing her own life in that setting than your's and she would get out of your backside .. and not be as hyper-drive-vigilant as you experience in her, when she's here, could that be possible.
The daughter is retired, lives several states away. Does come here, generally, every few months .. and stays for a period of about 3 weeks at a stretch. I wish I could make a list of everything the daughter did when here this last time, but it would take up the whole character allotment:
My brother was the most heavily involved son I've ever met. He took after my dad in that. Bro was often ill as a child and he and my parents had a special bond. Yes, he does lots for his church, but never at the expense of family.
My SIL probably stopped by 3 to 4 times a week, like at 7 pm, after a full day at work. Just for 15 minutes or so, but enough to see mom and to scope out if she needed anything, or if anything was amiss.
A very different situation, on so many levels. My DB and SIL operate as a team. Among us, there was never any finger pointing or blaming. When we realized mom needed to be in a facility close to one of us, we researched and visited and made the right choice. And we knew mom would simply say " that's lovely, dear".
This may be a question so naïve I will be able to hear the mocking laughter from four thousand miles away. But here goes -
Has Medicare not heard of BACS?
There isn't a branch of MIl's bank where I live in IL .. I mean I could have her mail forwarded to me, in IL . but these checks . if they keep coming in .. and needing to then be paid out of her acct., to the hospital . I don't have any way, in IL of getting those checks deposited into her account once I'm in IL. Do you think DH will have time . and will handle that .. can he even do that . he doesn't have time for all that does he?"
(Probably hoping . as she's always done, thinking out loud and I used to take the bait, . .I no longer do. Hoping I'd say something akin to, "yea that'll be hard for him to manage accurately . he doesn't have time, . no worries SIL . I'll be on the lookout for checks and her branch is close to our house . .I'll make sure to make copies and deposit the checks and then direct him to write a check to the hospital against that .. no worries". I haven't offered that. No .. I don't see him staying after that chore with any diligence .. I simply do not. But that doesn't make it incumbent upon me, any longer to be the stepper fetcher I once was)
Me: "I don't know SIL . maybe talk to the para-legal . maybe as POA .. you and DH both are POA . maybe those checks can be deposited into your account, .. and you pay them as POA .. I don't know .. Have em forward her mail to your addy . you get a check in the mail, . you pay it .. as POA . I don't know, find out. If it were me, and she needs hospitalization again, I'll be damned if she'd be going there to that hospital for me to have to take that on as one more damn thing that needs attending to, there is more than enough that needs attending to, and hospitals that WILL take Medicare assignment ... I'd be telling her "NO"... as to that hospital any further, .. ".
What a damn nightmare, circling the damn campground indeed.
All because she, was "fussed at" for getting up when told not to. Incidentally .. if you ask MO . that was the same hospital stay where a neuro wanted her directed for cognitive testing .. and screening found some deficiency . deficiencies I'd long since been harping about. It got ignored, . that story is several thousand posts back.
On the other front . letting DH off the hook . as to responsibility in all this . since he is of the "I don't even know how you guys think to ask that stuff" camp.
Do I wish he'd engage more and "want" for more understanding and walk thru all there is as to the minutia that is ongoing with all of this. H377 yes! I wish he would. But this is where that green chair analogy so far back began to put things into more perspective for me. Expecting him to be a red chair, when he's not . he's a green chair . and being mad at him about it . only serves to frustrate me.
He isn't gonna. He just isn't gonna do it. I've . .in the past . fought with him, screamed at him, begged etc .. did no good. Ever.
Look no further than within the last few days. He goes there . he does visit now . more frequently than used to be the case (at least that's improvement) .. he has now . at least thus far, turned down .. other hats that he'd like to wear, in lieu of . being available to his mom's scene. That's improvement, for now.
But .. him there . ask of him did he push her water cup at her. Not really .. a couple of times . but not like you'd think . no . not really. He's just not gonna get hung up in the circus of it all . he's not. Asked if he coaxed her to eat . not really no .. unlike his sister. Asked if he questioned . why do they have her back in diapers . I thought they had her in Depends now .. no . he didn't question that, doesn't care. He just is not gonna get hung up in the details of it all . it's not him. Get mad at him because he's the green chair instead of the red chair I want him to be . that only frustrates me . it doesn't fix it.. never has.
There was a time .. in part what brought me to the juncture I'm at with it all ..
MIL is pretty close to being Medicaid-eligible, which would make her one of those dreaded "indigents" too. Js
There was a time that I'd hop in and be the surrogate SIL .. he's not gonna do it . he just isn't .. so by damn I better .. somebody has to and he won't.
But .. several thousands of posts here . and counsel from the good folks that have lived it . and the green chair analogy that so clearly defines some of this .....
It dawned on me somewhere back thousands of posts ago .. he's gonna do what he does .. that's him . SIL is gonna do what she does, that's her .. but none of it means I have to care more than they do. And I won't.
SIL wants to ponder the Depends vs Diapers .. wants to ponder the *how to get this whole Medicare checks and so forth answered to* . how to put staff under the spotlight to her inquisitions . as to the meds and the fallout or possibility of same . as to chitapalooza and/or too low of BP .. fine by me, go be that green chair .. doens't mean I'm gonna do it. DH doesn't care to get into the b'chit of the above . doesn't care enough to even ponder it . doesn't mean I'm gonna ride herd on his azz as I once did to try to change him from a green chair to a red chair.
Obvious that my opinions in it all, been obvious for a long long time, .. aren't really all that heeded. I don't give much opinion anymore, unless asked, and even then . I pick and choose where I weigh in, see the dog .. that issue as of yesterday. I ignored it .. initially, when asked of that whole scenario.
I do go .. and participate in Progress Reports/Action Plans . as I feel that my input . helps to sort out some of what DH refuses to be mired in .. and helps to sort out some of what SIL is unable to see/deal with .. and adds add'l voice . where maybe there hadn't been that thought/question . on her part, til I said it. Same thing with touring sites . and questions asked . same thing with para legal . and questions asked. Sometimes I pop up with a question she hadn't even thought of . see above . talk to the para legal . maybe you can deposit those checks and pay it .. as POA . talk to them. Helping her to sort out and think of other options that may be possibilities.
Who's gonna break the news to MIL that she is not royalty and has to in fact go to the hospitals that accept Medicare/Medicaid .. not me. And how that plays out . is not on me. But .. helpful . hopefully . in talking/brainstorming with SIL . on that topic . that she needs to be aware going forward .. dependent upon where/how her healthcare rides going forward . Medicare/Medicaid .. what's it gonna be .. there needs to be on the table, (and I made sure it is . on the table) some understanding . and comprehension behind .. being seen by a doc needs to be set up to be however expedient it can be . to me that makes sense .. that no one is gonna be at the ready to come pick her up and cart her and her .. questionable ambulatory state .. to get her hither and yon to all these doctors for .. so much of what goes on . better she be seen by on site docs .. like the other commoners she doesn't think she is.
SIL debating out loud, thinking out loud yesterday, said to me: "oh man . she has an eye appt. on the 12th, that's this week . they were to dilate her eyes . we weren't able to get that done last time because she had some eye infection . and so we had to reschedule .. she's supposed to have her eyes dilated . that's this week . damn . what do I do about that".
Me: "I don't know but right now . her not ambulatory . that's gotta wait .. I mean do you really want her eyes dilated at this point . she can't even get around, no go ahead and mess with her vision . what's that impeding at this point .. she's not able to pay attention at this point to enjoy reading . she can see the tv .. if she turns it on . she rarely does .. why even put that on the radar to be seen to at this point, reschedule it would be my advice".
SIL: You're probably right . wouldn't be good to be dilating her eyes right now . and it's so hard to get her out
SIL so apt to get lost in the weeds in it all . and over here is the voice of Dorker, . why would you even entertain any notion at this point of hauling her outta there to a doc appt to dilate her eyes . is it all that important in the broad scheme of what's going on presently.
Yea, shame her brother isn't the one having this convo with her .. as it should be.
But go bang your head against a brick wall Dorker, til it's a bloody mess . because that's about what you'll get in any assumption he's gonna also throw himself into the weeds of all this. It aint' gonna happen.
Why isn't she .. bouncing this stuff off of him . and getting his read on it all, as it should be? These people don't talk .. he doesn't care enough to get into the weeds of it all, never has .. and never has been all that "available" (see how hard it is to reach him, even for me .. even for simple stupid stuff . like . why is the pump not turning off, stuff having nothing at all to do with his mom's situation . even I struggle to get his ear).........
SIL thinks out loud as to all the bouncing balls and spinning plates .. and so she thinks/weighs things out loud . and asks MO . and sometimes . give it . sometimes I don't. But I don't offer to help to get her and not ambulatory MIl to an eye appt I see as not all that necessary in the broad scheme of things. I don't offer to put staff under any spot light to answer to meds and fallout thereof .. I don't offer to get to the bottom of diapers vs depends . and I won't be.
Green chairs .. all of us . some of us . at one time, wanting others to be red chairs .. but learned the hard way . they are firmly fluffy big overstuffed green chairs that aren't gonna change.
The whole hospitals not accepting Medicare and Medicaid thing is completely foreign to me. Both hospitals locally and the ones my Dad used in the big cities all accepted Medicaid and Medicare.
If I am understanding this situation, these hospitals will accept MIL as a patient, I am assuming they will file the claim electronically to Medicare but do not accept payment from Medicare? The payment is then mailed to MIL? Yes a nighmare if I am understanding this right.
One of the questions you guys really need clarification on from Attorneys office would be SIL thinking she could deposit the Medicare reimbursement into HER checking account then pay the hospital while MIL is in the spend down phase. In my state any intermingling of funds(MILs Medicare payments deposited into SILs account) would be a big no no.
I had just *assumed* (maybe incorrect on my part) once she goes MedicAID .. she will be straight MEDICAID .. and that is her healthcare too .. not MediCARE ...
It was said at one of the atty meetings that no .. she is "entitled" as a senior citizen to Medicare . she worked for it . that doesn't get taken from her.
What I didn't ask .. is
"What about the supplement, .. that still a part of things? Funded how?"
So .. what will be her choices going forward as to docs, . hospitals .. etc .. I guess that depends somewhat on whether she's Medicaid . or MediCARE .. and .. how does that all work navigating as to doc visits .. and such. I don't even know enough about how all that works to even ask intelligent questions.
I mean . one for instance that comes to mind . .right off the top of my head .. she gets steroid injections in her knees, roughly every 3 months (bad knees, need to be replaced but she is NO candidate for that).
They aren't gonna go show up at the nursing home to service that request. And somewhat . it occurs to me . depending on whether she's ever even up and about . if she's bed ridden .. and not ambulatory . that whole painful knee thing . maybe in the end negates itself as legs aren't used anymore, . what do I know ... ??.... but if she's able to get up .. eventually and back to using a walker again . .(and that's what everyone seem to sell, she'll recover from this) . then those painful knees are gonna be at issue . as they always have been .. and getting those steroid injections .. she's gonna have to be carted there. They aren't gonna send someone to a nursing home for that.
And that question . that specific question has even been asked as we toured sites . "do you know if the physician on staff here would be able to service that request" and the answers given . each time . has been "no .. she'd need to be taken to the doc that does that",, .. extrapolated out further to .. some sites offer transport .. some don't.
But if she's straight MedICAID going forward . not mediCARE ............. then what doc is gonna service that .. I don't believe the doc she sees presently for that .. don't think they take MediCAID ............... and so what doc will she see to get that taken care of ...
So many questions that I .. being someone who is in the b'ground of all this . to add voice to (and not her son . unfortunately . I don't think for him . it's anywhere even as any kinda a blip on the side of his radar, this whole knee shots thing .. not even really aware of that as any need of hers) ... so many question that I'm too ignorant to know how it works, . and in some cases, ... don't even know how to formulate the intelligent questions to ask about it all. Sometimes . thought of only after the fact, . as described above where it was said by the atty . no she's entitled to MediCARE she worked for it .. and I didn't think to ask how the supplement gets paid . if that continues and if it doesn't .. does she then qualify for both . as Medicaid will pick up what the Medicare supplement used to.
I don't know.
SIL is living a nightmare of trying to handle that, in add'n to all else she's handling presently.
Yes, the hospital bills Medicare . but won't accept payment from them ... the checks arrive from Medicare . .payable to MIL .. SIL writes on the back of the check . endorses it . and deposits it to MIL's checking acount, and then writes a check to the hospital .. and also makes copies of each . and then keeps the deposit slip . makes copies of each .. so that the atty has a record .. of all these "deposits" being made to the checking account, should Medicaid .. come asking .. What are all these deposits" . she keeps copies for herself, and also for the atty office .. all of this nightmare because MIL couldn't be subject to hospital A where her husband .. ultimately became sicker and sicker and met his demise in the end, or Hospital B . because she was .. the indignantcy of it all .. "fussed at".
So yes, my involvement. questions.
So yes .. should we go to atty tomorrow for appt, with our list of questions . the above being one of many.
"So .. going forward .. SIL departing for IL .. and she doesn't have a branch of the bank MIL uses . not in her hometown .. so .. can she deposit those checks into her account and write the payment to the hospital".
Should the answer be no ..
Then I will be, you can bet on it, right then and there, telling SIL .. "well good luck to ya on that one .. you know and I know . your brother doesn't have time to deal with all that and I'm not gonna ... nor am I gonna ride herd on him to do it .. so .. as I said to you dear SIL .............. the answer is "NO" a firm/resounding "NO" should there be any further hospitalizations . as to that setting for same . the answer is "NO" . she can go where Medicare is accepted as payment . there is NO ONE HERE that will jump thru those hoops. You wanna stay here, move to FL and do it .. have at it .. but no one here is gonna treat her as the royalty you and she seem to think she is .. and jump those hurdles .. good luck to ya figuring that one out".
https://www.medicareresources.org/faqs/can-i-be-enrolled-in-medicare-and-medicaid-at-the-same-time/
https://money.usnews.com/money/personal-finance/articles/2016-04-28/what-you-need-to-know-about-getting-both-medicare-and-medicaid
It sounds from reading that MIL would qualify for both, as the attorney stated. About the knee injections, it might be good to ask about the benefits of using a managed care plan vs. using direct government services in terms of what providers you can choose from and what services they offer (i.e. if any do offer transportation services or mobile docs that might be able to come on-site to do them). Sounds like a managed care plan may offer more in the way of supplemental services, but would have a narrower scope of providers to choose from.
I took that to mean, but didn't ask ..
One will be required to choose a provider (managed care) . and there are 3 to choose from in our local area .. and that specific site .. they only accept Sunshine State or whatever it was he called it .. and as to the medical providers they have on site.
Thinking that out a little further, I arrived at the conclusion .. without asking .. didn't know enough to even ask ...
"So .. ??....that means, I suppose ...??.....should we choose a provider other than what you guys accept . she won't be .. A) seeing your in house doc . and will have to be carted out for same .. and any other services you provide medically speaking . should that be drugs . should that be PT .. should that be whatever it is . .she'd need to be carted outta here, is that right?".
Didn't think to ask that . didn't know enough at the time to even formulate that as a question. SIGH
I'm sure she can do the same if her mom needs to go back into the hospital. DH needs to learn to say the same.
I think it's b'chit to be chasing one's elbow around their azz to be doing all this and were I in charge, I'd of said no from the start .. they don't accept Medicare assignment and it's a nightmare of a paper trail to keep up with it all, . no .. that hospital is not an option. I wouldn't of had this on the table for discussion at all, it would've been nixed.
SIL has been told .. (DH is clueless .. unfortunately .. if I were to begin to tell him . "Now DH you're going to need to get schooled here in how this all works .. she wants "x" hospital . but they don't take Medicare assignment, so what you'll have to do is ..................", ,. his eyes would glaze over with boredom before I even got out of my mouth 3 words of any of that . and he would disengage). She's been told that he isn't of the inclination to stay behind that and I'm not gonna do it .. so . pick your poison SIL .. want to figure out how to handle it all in IL . so your mom can choose that hospital . over others that are just as good .. if not maybe better .. IMO .. have at it . but just know . no one here is gonna chase their elbow around their azz to get this all done .. it's not gonna happen".
Dorker - have you straight out said to dh “You need to be at this meeting with the paralegal and start getting yourself knowledgeable about this stuff - cuz when your sister leaves next month, YOU will be in charge of all of YOUR mothers care and the decisions that must be made. I’M NOT DOING IT. Repeat - I AM NOT DOING IT!!!”
Last meeting he was sick. He’s not sick now, is he? Sure. Dh is busy earning a living - but so were so many of us and we still managed. So are thousands of people who share this task of looking after an aged loved one - and they manage it. ALL THE TIME. It’s not pretty but it happens.
Welcome me the real life facts of caring for a deteriorating, aged loved one, dh. It’s hard. It’s ugly. And it’s sad. Really sad. But put on those big-boy britches, big guy.
Youve ironed those britches, Dorker. More than done your part Time for him to put them on - regardless of what color chair he is. After all - you’ve done all the shopping for - and have supplied the red paint.
He's a businessman, right Dorker? Do you handle all of the financial end? Doesn't he cost out the jobs he bids on?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medicare_dual_eligible
My response: "You need to get busy sorting thru the b'chit that goes with all this .. and the atty meetings and SW meetings and the Progress Reports and Action Plans . and site viewings .. you get busy with all that, you won't have time to look at how (sad) all this is .. atty meeting tomorrow .. be there".
His response: "I can't be there, I have "x, y and z" that has to be done by tomorrow, it's gonna take every bit of today and tomorrow to get it done".
My walking away .. to go bang my head on the brick wall land then land in that big green ugly chair.
Only other thing I can do is tell SIL .. "you're on your own . not going".
I don't feel that my being a part of the b'ground stuff is more than I want to do .. particularly when this b'ground stuff .. it will . in the end... it will have it's conclusion . she'll arrive at her final stay somewhere ultimately . .and her medical issues will get addressed however that looks ... and being carted off for same or not .. that too .. it may land on DH at some point, "yep DH your mom has a doc appt on "x" date . be there .. don't care that you have to do "x y and z" before such and such date .. your mom wanted to be in FL . for her setting . by damn she's in FL .. and so ... get to steppin".
Edit-I see now! The hospital MIL prefers doesn’t take MEDICARE. Now that is foreign to me. Especially being that this is in Florida. Hospitals accepting Medicaid is normal out here in California—we have public and private hospitals. Public hospitals are run by the county & take Medicaid, they are where the poor and uninsured tend to go. Private hospitals usually do not take Medicaid but take Medicare and they are where the rich and privately insured tend to go. HOWEVER both hospitals have their own specialties so the rich do end up at the county hospital—it’s where the trauma center is and they got I think a level 3 or 4 NICU? The private hospital does not have either of those BUT they have a state of the art heart center so if you call 911 because you’ve got chest pain, you go to the private hospital because hearts are their speciality.
MIL may find that even hospital E has its share of indigent patients, just saying. It may be the most appropriate hospital for their needs. May be the closest during an emergency.
Once MIL goes on Medicaid, she won't have any funds for out of pocket costs. Someone will have to pay the overage.
which history has shown - will only be left to you to correct. So might as
well head this one off at the pass.
Still - it’s so mightily frustrating. Dh and all his avoidance and blame shifting nonsense... cause when the chit hits the fan further on down the road - he’s gonna point his finger at you. Never for a moment considering the fact that this was HIS responsibility all along.
Sigh.
As a matter of fact, if it comes down to DH asking, "MIL has a doctor's appt, can you take her on (such and such date)?", you can simply say, "No, I can't do that. See if the NH has transportation available that day if you can't go." Ideally, SIL (and DH if he would help her, but sounds like he's not gonna) should probably get the doctor, insurance coverage, and transportation arrangements ironed out before she leaves so that those questions don't come up later. If they do, it can be on DH or SIL to deal with as the POAs.
At some point, there will be a standoff between SIL and MIL, because long-distance whirligigs and plate-spinning just won't work. Will MIL actually end up relocating to IL to live in a facility there? Or will SIL move to FL until MIL hitches a ride on a passing cloud?
I really don't see how the plan of SIL not being local to deal with everything is going to work. She insists on micromanaging everything and basically being a pain in the a#* because she thinks her mother deserves better than what she's going to get -- being one of many in a Medicaid bed that public taxes are funding. H isn't going to be of much help at all other than pity partyin', and everyone will be mad at you, Dorker. You have shown your competence and wisdom in what you have done lately. I really do think that you're dipping your toes in the wild raging Narcissa waters, and it's going to come back and bite you/haunt you as you will have to set up and maintain boundaries all over again.
I agree with those who have said to NOT go to the paralegal meeting tomorrow. If H can't go, so be it. Let his sister handle it all. She IS the one in charge. Not your circus, not your monkeys. Soon enough, she will be back in IL, and you'll be blocking her number from your phone.
P.S. The illustrator for your book will have to draw red and green chairs!
Right now .. SIL is on scene and so all there is to be done, she's spinning those plates and running that hamster wheel ever faster all the time, .. no one has asked of me to do so. DH . all too happy to stand down . and look clueless as SIL wears herself to a nub. That wont' change, on his part, even after SIL leaves .. he's just who he is .. it's not gonna change.
SIL . .she's not gonna change either .. she'll be trying to spin those plates and run that hamster wheel ever faster from afar .. as she's done before.
I don't have a problem .. and I won't hesitate .. when asked (haven't been thus far) .. "will you go and see mother .. sounds like she's complaining of ___________", .............. or ............... "will you go and see if you can catch up with the doctor, I'm worried about _____________" ............. or ................ "Wonder why mom is having _____________ and ______________ I wonder if they've changed her meds .. do you think you could talk to them when you go there".
I don't have a problem in the world, redirecting that, .. "SIL .. that's gonna be best you take it up with staff .. I'm not her Medical POA nor anything else, they don't have to talk to me .. and that's how I want it .. I want to be a visitor . nothing more .. and bring a ray of sunshine to her . when I can . all the minutia as to the goings on .. I'm not interested in sorting thru it all".
I don't have a problem saying any of that . .like it or lump it.
Will SIL get DH's hard to find ear . .and have him prompting me with the "FOR CHRISSAKES DORKER" .................. yep ................. more than likely.
But again .. "DH . I'm not POA . you are .. they don't have to talk to me .. those are things you guys need to sort out .. I'm a visitor . nothing more, she's not my mom".
Count on it . the boundaries will continue to be tested . until that cloud stops to pick MIL up.
Sure I can bale out right here and now, and be the oblivious one over here . and not have even the slightest inkling of the where's and how's of all this ... but as another poster pointed out here .. there is "some" at least .. motivation on my part, to not have SIL screw it all up six ways from Sunday and then . any assumption as we move along here, that Dorker will pick up slack.
Nope . if it comes up in these settings, talking to directors at sites, . talking to SW's . and Action Plans . and talking to atty's .. and all there is to entail in all of this .. if it comes up .. as a point of confusion or . unanswered to .. questions/need .. I want to be front and center as to what is any expectation on my part, and answer to it right then and there.
A great for instance .. was that eye appt ... SIL debating that .. yesterday .. carting her mom out of POSH to go see to dilating her mom's eyes. I weighed in .. so there can be no confusion .. "I think that's an enormous waste of energy at this point .. her eyes .. aren't the paramount concern right now . . someone who can't even ambulate".
So there can be no confusion anywhere, that Dorker will weigh in on what she considers an absolute need and what she considers "NOT" a need.
SIL returns to IL and begins anew with all her whirligig fetching and so forth . she will be reminded yet again . and I'm sure it'll be necessary to do so .. Nope is the answer.
I’m in agreement that you should skip the meeting Dorker. If anything, write down a list of questions for SIL to ask. Insist DH go with her. If he doesn’t, not your problem. SIL has managed and micromanaged her mother’s lifr for years.....there is a reason she doesn’t want to handle the attorney meetings alone and someone said it very well earlier in the thread.
Not so much for anger but for any uncontrollably mounting tension, one technique we were taught that is remarkably effective is the "STOP!" Just like that. You say aloud, loudly but not shouting, "STOP!"
When SIL goes into one of her tailspins, one of her verbal streams of consciousness about complex medical possibilities, or ways to get MIL to an appointment she doesn't need (not now anyway, at least), or imponderable developments *that it is completely futile for her to debate*, try it on her.
The aim is to get her attention, make her breathe, and help her to refocus. God knows there is enough for her to do without creating all this unmanageable and useless activity.
Dorker, I feel those boundary walls are being breeched....you're talking a tough game, but can you maintain it??
I think DH needs to be REUPHOLSTERED asap. His whining makes want to slap him upside the head.
He CANNOT and I mean CANNOT cry those crocodile tears about his mom and then refuse to stand up and be a man, son and POA. You should NOT be standing in his place, doing his job. Period. I don't give a happy rat's azz what deadlines he's under--FAMILY COMES FIRST and if he keeps letting you do HIS job, he's NEVER EVER going to do it.
And at MIL's funeral he'll be utterly despondent---b/c he was a lousy son.
How long is this mtg going to take? An hour? He can take lunch and eat it during the meeting.
I'm sorry, but he is expecting you to do all the things again, and you are doing them. How can you say "well, once a,b,c are set, I'm stepping back out"..I don't see how that can happen. You go to that mtg with the atty and you are placing yourself square in seat #2. Everyone will look to you as co-POA whether you are or aren't since no one will even have MET DH.
When my DH took his dad to the atty (after I harangued them both and made the appt. I DID NOT go to the meeting.) I made a list of ?? for him and that was it. I did help him to liquidate the estate, but all of us pitched in on that.
I like the idea of you sending along a list of ?? you may have, as DH has none and no desire to even be involved. This whole mess is SIL and DH's problem, not yours.
SIL does not respect you nor your boundary setting. She is so totally lost in the minutiae (mostly of her own making!) of MIL's intensive care---and you don't need to be dragged back into it.
You're going to get triangulated back into being the go between MIL, SIL DH and every doctor on MIL's list.
And BTW--ANY drs appts that are not ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY should be shelved. Eye appts, knee injections, dermatology appts, whatever. MIL needs to rehab to the point she can walk with a walker and be somewhat capable of ADLs. That's the best you can hope for.
All this fussing about what hospital she will or won't go to--I thought you were looking at LTC facilities? Why are you even discussing hospitals? As a precaution to the next fall? If that's the case, the NH will send her to the closest one, she won't even have a choice.
SIL is going to figure out the money end of things, Doesn't MIL have a checking acct? How hard is it to add SIL's name to that? Or if it's already on there, then she just takes the checkbook with her to IL. Yep, it's a pain with the payments thing--but she can handle it.
My own DH was also a green chair. But after one massive fight with him--me telling him that when his parents died I would not lift a finger to help him--and explaining to him the NIGHTMARE of there being no will--he caved and got involved. I don't care that he was mad at me for a while. And although I don't like to do "anger"...sometimes it works. Sometimes it's all that works.
However--do what you feel is right. I just read your posts and cringe....you're getting a lot of good advice, I hope you can find peace in what you decide.
This needs to be tattooed onto SIL's arm.
"I want to go to the fancy hospital!" NO. No can do anymore. So sorry.
Eye doc wants to dilate. NO. Too ill to worry about that at all. Sorry doc, no $$ for you.
Someone needs to transport MIL to hospital from LTC. NO. No one available and able to do that. Sorry.
Now, 2 sets of ears are always better for biz and detail stuff. If Dorker feels right about helping out there, I vote go for it. (I believe Dorker has learned her limits.) And I think Dorker has the best judgement of any as far as distinguishing between necessities, extraneous time-wasters, and just plain niceties done out of love. Dorker IS planting the "NO" seeds in SIL. I do see that.
DH - an infuriating spouse as many are... But Green Chair is not that unusual. We can all be Green Chairs in some aspects - like, please don't ask me ever to do auto mechanics! I will be a green chair for life in that department.