I've posted before about in-law care-giving. Aged mother in law, lives in same town.
We are at the tail end of a visit from sister in law from several states away. Sister in law has been here for 3 weeks caring for her mother. A much welcome respite.
It had been discussed, prior to her arrival here on the scene, she would be talking it over with her mother, to try and get her mom to come up to her home, for a stay of maybe a few months.
This, in my opinion, is absolutely essential, as I am expecting twin grand-children, due in about 1 month (if they don't come sooner, as is the case a lot of times with multiples pregnancies). The expectant mother also lives locally here, and has a 4 year old daughter. I will be on that front, helping .. as much as is needed. And not on the front with mother in law and care-giving, and have made that as obvious and apparent as I know how to make it. It would be great if mother in law would agree to go to her daughter's home (several states away) for a period of a few months .. and allow me the latitude to put my energies where I want them to be, on my daughter who will have had a c-section .. and my grand-daughter (4 years old) and new twin babies.
Nothing doing. Mother in law has dug in her heels, and will not hear of it, going to stay with her daughter for any period of time.
What are her reasons?
In mother in law's defense ... her daughter ... I don't even know how to describe it. I will say that when her daughter comes here to visit, she all but breathes for her mother and if she could find a way to do that, she'd do that too. She is the most nervous nelly, never sit down - ever ... worry wart, do everything, all the time .. person that I've ever encountered.
A great example, as I was taking her to the airport yesterday for her departure, . I reached into the fridge to grab myself a bottled water and shut the fridge and turned to walk away, as I've done for all of my 50 plus years living on this earth .. and she said to me, "Oh make sure that fridge shut". WTH???? Like I don't know how to shut a fridge? That's just a small, very small slice of what she is ... how she is.
She is so very hyper-vigilant, seeing to every minute details down to it's finest most minuscule point, fine tooth comb, questioning every point along the way, "should we do thus and so, but maybe if we do thus and so, then such and such will happen, maybe we should do it thus and so .. but then so and so might happen, maybe we shouldn't do thus and so, but do "x" "y" and "z" instead, but if we don't do it that way then ..........", on and on and on and on it goes. And usually in hyper warp speed, as to every single friggin thing.
If her mother moans .. "what's wrong mother?, why did you moan, are you alright?".
Mother: "Yes, I'm fine, I was just sighing out loud".
Sister: "Why did you sigh? Are you hurting, are you sure you're alright, why are you sighing what's the matter?"
Mother: "For God's sake __________________, I was just sighing, .. calm down, I'm fine".
Sister: "Are you sure, .. because if something is wrong you need to tell me".
Mother: "Everything is fine, I'm fine".
Sister: "Are you sure, we did a lot yesterday, did we do too much, maybe we shouldn't of gone to two doctors in one day .. was that too much for you, are you too tired now, maybe we need to move those other doctor appointments so we won't have two in one day, is that too much for you, for one day .. is that why you were sighing .. what's wrong, are you sure you're alright".
Hopefully that kinda gives a little bit of a snapshot of what goes on when sister is in the ring directing things.
So in mother in law's defense.. I do get it, why she wouldn't be chomping at the bit to go to her daughter's home.
BUT ....
The only experience she has with her daughter, in the last years as mother in law has aged and been unable to go anywhere much, has been the daughter coming here, periodically, for periods of about 3 weeks at a stretch. When her daughter comes here, she moves heaven and earth for her mother and then some, and doesn't sit down, doesn't stop .. the WHOLE ENTIRE TIME.
Is there a possibility maybe (as I said to mother in law, when she expressed that isn't happening - talking to me - her going to her daughters .. ever) .. could it be possible that maybe if you would go to where she lives .. she'd be more busy managing her own life in that setting than your's and she would get out of your backside .. and not be as hyper-drive-vigilant as you experience in her, when she's here, could that be possible.
The daughter is retired, lives several states away. Does come here, generally, every few months .. and stays for a period of about 3 weeks at a stretch. I wish I could make a list of everything the daughter did when here this last time, but it would take up the whole character allotment:
Let us remember that MIL is a lovely lady, a kind soul who has unfortunately outlived her savings, as often happens in our 90's, and is deserving of respect, and shouldn't be labeled a a drain on society. She is fortunate to have loving family who are willing to go to bat for her, to insure the best available in less than desirable financial circumstances, no matter how difficult the path forward might be, as many do not. Just my 2 cents. Hang in there Dorker!
stacey good point on the drain on the taxpayers comments. I think those comments were really just to drive home a point and not necessarily be a judgement of MIL but still, they are very judgmental comments and a bit harsh. I admit I’ve had similar thoughts as we deal with my FIL who retired with zero plans for the future and no money other than a small SS check. He moved to here and got on Medi-cal and when some of the family is unhappy and talks of wanting to move him to fancy hospitals because they think he’ll get better care, I find myself having similar thoughts about him being on the tax payers dime and how beggars can’t be choosy, how he’s kind of responsible for his own situation. We can beg and demand all we want but as a medi-cal patient he’s at a disadvantage and since he can’t private pay for his health care or affords privage insurace, no fancy private hospital is going to take him in. Sad but true. But you are right, he’s paid taxes and is every bit as deserving of GA as dorkers MIL. I appreciate your comment a lot. It’s made me realize I need to change my thought process on this!
She then fell and broke her hip at POSH a few weeks later. POSH is located maybe 2 miles up the road from this hospital of choice and I'm sure she was lucid enough at that point to provide direction as to her preference.
All of these places as to placement, when asked if she can choose a preference .. they all answer: life or death, closest hospital will be designated. Not life or death, yes she can choose.
SIL when asked today by me, does she intend to continue the paper chase of MIL's hospital of preference.
Her answer: well right now at POSH I'm sure they'd default to that hospital since it's right there...let's hope no more hospitalization while at POSH. But no .. once she lands elsewhere that one is off the list.
EVen heard her telling MIL this when I visited MIL today.
Besides years of my NPD FIL living with us and managing all the care a Senior needs, I waded through countless hours of trying to arrange my FIL's VA benifits, only to happily get him approved pretty swiftly and his VA Pension monies coming in, only to have him diagnosed with cancer, home Hospice and him dying within 3 months of him receiving it, was it worth it, yes because he felt that as a Veteran, he finally got governmental benefits he felt he deserved, so a boon for us both.
We do what we can to make their lives as happy as possible, often times at the detriment to our own health, our lifestyles and mainly our time, it's easy to begin catagorizing them as a pain and a drain on our existance, but hopefully there is a God and we will get our just rewards in the end.
I don't know that I would do any of it differently, we did oùr best, couldn't do no more.
I was lucky to have 5 supportive siblings with my folks, always on the same page, which definately helped to lighten the load, my husband was not so lucky, it was all on him/us, his 2 siblings absent in their Dad's life and care, their loss.
Dorker, I think you are doing a great job, I know the sacrifices you are making in your husband's absence, it is understandable, he does have to work, and he is stepping up more as his Mom's health situation is degrading. You are being a great support to your SIL and MIL. I hope they appreciate you for all you are doing.
Just wanted to say that I wish that SIL had kept MIL in IL, it would have been so much easier on them both, but it wasn't to be. This will not get easier, her everchanging health needs are going to be draining, let alone the selling and closing up of her home when the time comes, so do maintain those boundries as best you can, some of them won't be avoidable they just won't, so plan on being flexible, and make time for you and your husband when you can.
Just remember that this will not last forever, and that you are a great Wife, SIL, and DIL. It won't go unoticed in the end! Take Care!
As opposed to what? An angry rats azz? Perhaps given the subject in question - a sad rats azz would be more fitting?
I have to say, I’ve never heard that one before. Sure - “a rats azz”. Say it all the time myself. Just never heard the rats emotional state identified or used as a qualifier.
Still - I like it! “A happy rats azz”. It has zip and adds color to an otherwise blunt term. I do think I’m gonna borrow that one.
I don't think my family has the intellectual rights to that saying. Feel free to use it!
You have 5 snarky, brilliant kids and you are going to hear some pretty funny stuff.
I have ?????
Is this wrangling about HOSPITALS about MIL RIGHT NOW? or are they looking down the road? I thought she was being moved on the 15th to a LTC facility. Isn't that the more pressing issue?
It is more likely she is going to meet that cloud while living in the LTC. Unless a fall or something quite serious causes her to have to be back in hospital again. She's in REHAB right now, right? Not a hospital? And she can't stay there forever.
Making plans or jumping the gun? Last I remember, SIL was putting the kibosh on all LTC's as being too depressing for her mother.
I hope that she does get a placement soon for a decent LTC place. Things will settle down (if SIL will allow) to a degree. I truly do hope MIL rehabs to a point where she can get around on her own. It's not looking hopeful.
Once again I have to state that this whole thread has taught us all some pretty huge lessons-mostly of the warning variety! What NOT to do. If MIL had dealt with all this stuff when she capable of doing so....the family could be spending quality time with MIL, just calmly dealing with the inevitable. Instead they are all running their feet off and not really accomplishing anything.
In fact, it was THIS thread that made me sit up and decide it was high time DH and I got our estate in order. He balked, but I pushed him forward and now he is really glad that we know what to expect and better still--our kids know.
Be well Dorker.
Your DH and SIL are the ones who need to deal with the medical/legal issues that pertain to your MIL. Hope they can do that. Best, B
Sometimes, this megathread takes a turn into irrelevant territory, but that happens with a lot of threads. SO MUCH good stuff in this thread! (It's pretty much the only reason I'm still on this message board.)
Dorker's saga isn't over yet...not by a long shot.
This sad tale won't be over til the cloud comes and the support here, from all, in dealing with not only what I see/live as dysfunctional... it's seen by you guys too!
The suggestions/camaraderie so helpful.
I went off the rails for a second. Sorry. Just used an old family phrase. Sometimes is helps to laugh at something weird.
******************
I agree, though, I can't keep track of what's going on--hence my questions about why the fussing over hospitals when the pressing need seems to be the LTC at this point. I must have missed something salient back a few posts.
I think things will be calm for a bit, (until they aren't anymore!) Dorker-the stress of living a daily "what if" is exhausting and beyond stressful. I hope you are taking care of yourself. I had my daughter and Co, for 10 days--caught the horrible cold they brought with them---still hauled around with/for them for the whole 10 days, they go home and I am sick AGAIN. This daughter is my most stressful, by far and we had fun--but I don't do messy, crazy unorganized very well, and that's how they live.
All of us have weighed in on how much we think you should be involved in the atty's mtg and the "care" of MIL---everyone has an opinion, but you are the one living it. I think it's just nobody wants to see you dragged back in to this. EVERYBODY wants to see DH step into a more involved role.
You do what YOU think is right and we will all be here supporting you.
Maybe I expect too much .. and I better wrap my head around, .. it may never come.
But .. I would hope by this point . there'd be less of the malaise, tears, laments, . .so on . but doesn't seem so.
I watched g'kids for DD this morning so she could go visit her granny. She found granny to be sad, tears . malaise .. woe with me, etc. In the end, she's one of the best to be there to deal with that. She's absolutely funny if she wants to be and before all was said and done . she had MIL laughing some. The therapist showed up while DD was present and MIL asked her to stay .. and so the therapist worked with MIL (mental health counselor) .. and ... so MIL bled her heart out to the therapist in the presence of DD. The woe with me scene and tears, etc.
Yesterday when I was there .. SIL also there (she's always there). The mood wasn't as solemn. She's never happy and on top of the world and excited, and that's understandable. But .. the whole malaise/woe with me, .. tears .. wasn't a part of that scene at all.
That manipulation some have referred to . sly like a fox, some have said .. makes ya wonder if she turns on the sympathy card when a newcomer that doesn't spin it .. as SIL and myself are prone to do ... (spin it .. with a .. "ya know .. it's hard .. we know it .. it's damn hard .. you're allowed to be sad . but .. ya gotta remember, life is gonna be what you make of it . and reminders that she had many years . .beyond what others would've enjoyed in her own home . at the propping up of others .. reminders that while it sucks .and it does . .there really is no magic fix here .. it's necessary, all what she hears when lamenting all this to SIL or myself).
Not usually what she hears when talking to DH .. and DD . who can't visit as frequently. And they seem to get the tears .. and the woe with me . and the malaise .. and so on.
We don't.
Not so much.
Maybe I expect too much that she's moving along here . and then not turn on the water works with those who are prey to it .. maybe I'm wrong. I dunno.
Another point of interest .. got a text from SIL last night:
"ya know, I think I'll head up to see mom for lunch tomorrow, maybe bring her a special lunch .. tomorrow (would be today) would've been her sister's bday .. (a sister who is now deceased as of about 5 years go or so) .. tomorrow (speaking of today now) would've been her's and dad's wedding anniversary .. gonna be a sad day for her .. .think I'll try to scoot by there at lunch time and bring her something special before the atty meeting".
My response: "I wouldn't bring it up if I were you .. I mean . one thing if she does . but ... I doubt she will, . she's really not all that oriented to time/dates .. not anymore .. the day will likely come and go .. and her absorbed in her own miseries . and that particular aspect of the marking of this date . it won't even dawn on her", she's just not all that oriented anymore to dates".
SIL: "She already asked me today when I was there (speaking of yesterday when she was there) what the date was and I told her, . and she recognized that meant tomorrow would mark her sister's bday and her's and dad's wedding anniversary".
I didn't weigh in anymore.
I did ask DD who went to visit . if she lamented above, .. and DD surprised to learn the significance of this date .. said "No, she never brought it up .. I didn't even know today would've been Aunt So and So's bday or their wedding anniversary .. she never said anything about it".
I asked SIL when we met at the atty office, . she'd already described having picked up some french onion soup for her mom .. and a burger ..
Brought it to her .. for a special lunch. I asked her, .. "did she mention anything about being sad that it's her sister's bday or their wedding anniversary".
SIL: "No, she didn't even mention it, nor did I, I didn't even bring it up"
Didn't figure she'd recognize the date and it's significance .. glad she didn't .. it would've been yet one more thing to fall into a pit of despair about.
Got some of the questions answered at atty office. The trust account, .. it can continue to pay household bills (some of them) . even while MIL is in residence in a home .. so that was reassuring. The home bills will ultimately go away when the home is dispensed with and given back to the bank .. but SIL will be here, . to help empty the contents of the home .. and we need A/C and lights .. and so .. the power bill will be coming, h/o insurance ... etc.
Learned she will keep her Medicare health plan and parts A and B ... and Medicaid will be 3rd .. so she will have a combo of both ultimately.
On her car, "giving" that to anyone (namely YD .. who it's slated to go to . if she wants it) ... the answer is . no, no "gifting" not right now .. nope . no way. Wait til Medicaid is approved . and at that point .. we can revisit it . maybe sell it to YD .. whatever .. but we'll see once Medicaid is approved. And that's on down the road a ways.
Some other "stuff" having to do with the fact that we'd been under the impression a referral had been sent . and in fact it had been . but the receiver never got it .. as to LTC .. and her transition spot she'll land at. No one at that end claims to have rec'd any referral so that was re-done while we were there, present at atty office, with para-legal working that angle in our presence.
Learned that her little small life insurance policy . bought like 100 years ago . totaling a whopping cash value of $500 (I guess that was a lot of $ back in the day it was purchased) . that can be and should be surrendered for face value . as it won't then be an asset, it will be protected in the trust . once surrendered .. as it is .. a life insurance policy (she already has a cremation pkg . purchased also a long time ago . so her funeral plans are already, long since in place) .. that life insurance policy has to be counted as an asset. So ... it can be surrendered . and the proceeds of same . .can then be put into the trust account. SIL worked with para-legal to get the forms sent .. on the phone with insurance company while there .. to go ahead and start the ball rolling on that.
They want her savings account closed . and any funds xfer'd to her checking account .. less to manage.
So that about summed up what was learned there .. a little more but none of it really all that crucial at this point.
Is SIL able even in a small way to start to unload some of the house. Since she will be gone in May it may not get done until she returns. I don't mean totally emptying but just starting to unload. It doesn't have to be the spoken for antiques but some of what I call the rest of nothing. Having done my mother's apartment and most recently my house while preparing it for sale there is so much of stuff that has no category yet there it is over and over all over the place.
Glad you guys had a productive meeting with attorneys office.
I’m glad SIL chose not to remind MIL of the deceased birthdays, death anniversary dates, whatever all that was about. Even if she wasn’t having a teary day that doesn’t sound like a good idea.
Glad the meeting with the paralegal went well. Did H ask any questions afterwards? He DOES realize that he will be the one in the crosshairs for any MIL issues that arise once SIL is in IL, yes?
Some things SIL has already begun to dispense with. Stacks and stacks of books for one thing. I took a stack of towels the other day and brought those here. I've decided wherever socks go .. towels must be with the missing socks. My selection of towels had diminished around here. So I took a stack from MIL's house.
Some things .. beginning stages ... are being sorted thru.
Good you are beginning the process of emptying the house. Be sure you don's talk unduly about that in front of MIL. I'd be sure to keep as much of that end of the business quiet, You ARE going to have to ask her about some things, the disposition of them, but that WILL engender a tantrum on MIL's side. You can set a lot of the bigger stuff to the side. Start with just the small stuff. She feels so depressed now, if she knew you were going through her delicates, she may have a total comeapart. You can label and pack a lot of the smaller stuff and decide what to do with the bigger pieces in time, How much more time before the RM will take over?
And it's emotional for those who are cleaning out the house, too. It took us 3 YEARS to empty mother & dad's home. Every single day we worked was absolutely horrible. Beyond horrible, it was OUR lives, too.
How much can she have in her LTC place? Is it going to be simply a bed and side table and not much 'personalizing' done? That is sad, to be left with basically NONE of the things around you that are 'you'.
Question: IS the 24th as the 'move date' b/c of regulations or based on the progress she's made? I'd be concerned about her being able to ambulate without a LOT of help and LTC's are notoriously understaffed. There won't BE 3 people to help her walk to the bathroom, or even down the hall.
I find her 'showtiming' for your daughters to be very frustrating--gosh, how much of that can you take??
Not much to say, but I can take several paragraphs to say it :)
I do agree with Riverdale, Should she be eating the kinds of high salt/fatty foods that SIL brings her? Sort of ignoring the plan by doing that. SMH, I don't think SIL listens to a dang word anyone says to her.
Well--I hope you have a good day--and, to end this--I hope you plan to go back to no contact (no texting) with SIL soon as she leaves and let DH step up to the plate. If you don't, you'll be right back at post #1.
If it's a detriment to what's ongoing with her health .. then that's on them to sort thru. You're right .. even if I suggested that to SIL . she likely wouldn't listen. I stay out of it, entirely.
If I cook something here that I know she likes, . it's happened once or twice, .. I be sure to bring her some . but it's not a routine thing . not from me.
I did stop off one time at a favorite place, and picked up some chicken salad, but I'm not thinking there'd be much in it . in the way of anything harmful to her.
The 24th .. her new discharge date .. that was as a result of her having had impediments (health-wise) obstacles .. as to being participatory in PT .. (and that continues .. the impediments). When she first got to POSH .. she couldn't participate at all. BP too low, consistently, transfusion necessary .. so forth, and that was ongoing for about 1 week .. til that all got ironed out. What you see ongoing at present . there are "good" episodes, and "not so good" episodes.
Yesterday they came to get her for PT .. and her BP was too low . and so no carting her off to be upright for that. But at some point .. that's gonna have to work one way or the other. She can't stay at POSH indefinitely because of too low of BP. Other times, they come to get her, . and the BP (always low, always has been) .. doesn't bottom out to a dangerous level . and so off they go to PT. So there is improvement .. but it's measured improvement for sure .. not consistent.
As to emptying the house and so forth. . On the debate about her auto, MIL's auto .. that is to ultimately .. we hope . in one way or the other, go to YD. Eventually. But not right now. But SIL and myself talking, debating whether or not she should get her name on the title to it, so as to be able to dispense with the auto . or .. will the POA (which is now effective and operational) .. will that suffice as to dispensing with that auto . both of us questioning that, we don't know for certain.
SIL saying the following: If nothing else, we can get MIL to sign the title over to YD when that time comes .. I mean .. I don't assume she's gonna die within the next few months .. I mean ... I guess anything is possible . but . if push comes to shove we can just let her sign the title over to YD . or whatever".
My response: "I don't know, the less of this we involve her in, the less baggage she has with it all.. truly is MO. I mean yes . .absolutely .. after the fact, let her know the car went to YD .. as she'd asked that it be handled ... if YD wants it .. so yea .. .we can tell her, after it's said and done .. but all of that, disposing of the stuff in the house . .and her belongings and so forth, it seems to carry such emotional baggage with her . and would bring up so much hand wringing and sadness that she'll never drive again .. and when she got that car, . and blah blah blah .. (car isn't worth all that much to be crying over spilled milk .. but to her .. all this stuff . and it being dispensed w/carries a lot of emotional baggage).
SIL: You're right .. she may not ever even ask what happened to any specific item .. I don't think she even remembers her house. I'd said something to her about the chair that sits by the back door . and she can't place it ... doesn't know what I'm talking about. Hell that chair has sat there by her french doors in the den, forever .. that same chair . but she has no clue what I'm talking about".
Me: "yea . just . if she asks, otherwise just leave it alone".
You say MIL has dementia and is far gone, then you turn around and criticize her for showtimers and planning how to manipulate with the tears and whoah is me. She can't help it Dorker, her brain is broken. Stop expecting her to be a reasonable, reasoning adult.
Why don't you learn what needs to be done to ensure that you guys don't screw up her qualifying for Medicaid, sell the car to young daughter for blue book pricing and stop the insurance payment for nothing. All of you are running around, nobody knows, nobody knows and nobody does one damn thing to change that. Everyone is stuck in worrying about what nobody knows and nothing is getting done. You are involved, what you post is obvious that you're involved, how about you find out how to ensure Medicaid since it's your daughter that wants the car.
Does it really matter what she is eating as long as she is eating. Maybe looking at reality would help stop the psychosis of all this.
None of my business, but seriously!
"On her car, "giving" that to anyone (namely YD .. who it's slated to go to . if she wants it) ... the answer is . no, no "gifting" not right now .. nope . no way. Wait til Medicaid is approved . and at that point .. we can revisit it . maybe sell it to YD .. whatever .. but we'll see once Medicaid is approved. And that's on down the road a ways."
Also - I think it is Dorker that has herself said that she doubts the showtiming is intentional manipulation, as MIL's thinking is not really capable of manipulating at this point. BUT - the pity party showtiming behavior is still quite tiresome, as much of elderly dementia-type thinking can be! (Thus - it helps to think of them as bratty toddlers sometimes.) Later, hopefully, the family can look back at it with bittersweet tears and laughter, even.