I've posted before about in-law care-giving. Aged mother in law, lives in same town.
We are at the tail end of a visit from sister in law from several states away. Sister in law has been here for 3 weeks caring for her mother. A much welcome respite.
It had been discussed, prior to her arrival here on the scene, she would be talking it over with her mother, to try and get her mom to come up to her home, for a stay of maybe a few months.
This, in my opinion, is absolutely essential, as I am expecting twin grand-children, due in about 1 month (if they don't come sooner, as is the case a lot of times with multiples pregnancies). The expectant mother also lives locally here, and has a 4 year old daughter. I will be on that front, helping .. as much as is needed. And not on the front with mother in law and care-giving, and have made that as obvious and apparent as I know how to make it. It would be great if mother in law would agree to go to her daughter's home (several states away) for a period of a few months .. and allow me the latitude to put my energies where I want them to be, on my daughter who will have had a c-section .. and my grand-daughter (4 years old) and new twin babies.
Nothing doing. Mother in law has dug in her heels, and will not hear of it, going to stay with her daughter for any period of time.
What are her reasons?
In mother in law's defense ... her daughter ... I don't even know how to describe it. I will say that when her daughter comes here to visit, she all but breathes for her mother and if she could find a way to do that, she'd do that too. She is the most nervous nelly, never sit down - ever ... worry wart, do everything, all the time .. person that I've ever encountered.
A great example, as I was taking her to the airport yesterday for her departure, . I reached into the fridge to grab myself a bottled water and shut the fridge and turned to walk away, as I've done for all of my 50 plus years living on this earth .. and she said to me, "Oh make sure that fridge shut". WTH???? Like I don't know how to shut a fridge? That's just a small, very small slice of what she is ... how she is.
She is so very hyper-vigilant, seeing to every minute details down to it's finest most minuscule point, fine tooth comb, questioning every point along the way, "should we do thus and so, but maybe if we do thus and so, then such and such will happen, maybe we should do it thus and so .. but then so and so might happen, maybe we shouldn't do thus and so, but do "x" "y" and "z" instead, but if we don't do it that way then ..........", on and on and on and on it goes. And usually in hyper warp speed, as to every single friggin thing.
If her mother moans .. "what's wrong mother?, why did you moan, are you alright?".
Mother: "Yes, I'm fine, I was just sighing out loud".
Sister: "Why did you sigh? Are you hurting, are you sure you're alright, why are you sighing what's the matter?"
Mother: "For God's sake __________________, I was just sighing, .. calm down, I'm fine".
Sister: "Are you sure, .. because if something is wrong you need to tell me".
Mother: "Everything is fine, I'm fine".
Sister: "Are you sure, we did a lot yesterday, did we do too much, maybe we shouldn't of gone to two doctors in one day .. was that too much for you, are you too tired now, maybe we need to move those other doctor appointments so we won't have two in one day, is that too much for you, for one day .. is that why you were sighing .. what's wrong, are you sure you're alright".
Hopefully that kinda gives a little bit of a snapshot of what goes on when sister is in the ring directing things.
So in mother in law's defense.. I do get it, why she wouldn't be chomping at the bit to go to her daughter's home.
BUT ....
The only experience she has with her daughter, in the last years as mother in law has aged and been unable to go anywhere much, has been the daughter coming here, periodically, for periods of about 3 weeks at a stretch. When her daughter comes here, she moves heaven and earth for her mother and then some, and doesn't sit down, doesn't stop .. the WHOLE ENTIRE TIME.
Is there a possibility maybe (as I said to mother in law, when she expressed that isn't happening - talking to me - her going to her daughters .. ever) .. could it be possible that maybe if you would go to where she lives .. she'd be more busy managing her own life in that setting than your's and she would get out of your backside .. and not be as hyper-drive-vigilant as you experience in her, when she's here, could that be possible.
The daughter is retired, lives several states away. Does come here, generally, every few months .. and stays for a period of about 3 weeks at a stretch. I wish I could make a list of everything the daughter did when here this last time, but it would take up the whole character allotment:
But, what I am is - someone who yells and swears and throws things. Although, it’s been at least 25 years since my last Tossing of the Crockery - back to when I was married to The Donor. But I do recommend it. In those times and moments of extreme pressure and there is a need to - as Countrymouse says “get rid of some tension”.
So - a couple of tips for the tossing:
The item selected for the tossing is one of the most important elements. You need to select something that will break into several pieces - giving off that all important crashing/breaking sound - but not something that will shatter and splinter into a zillion pieces. Having to clean that up - having to look for teeny-tiny shards - takes some of the satisfaction from the experience. So - heavy crockery. BUT not so heavy that it might damage the sheetrock. Again - having to look at the wall damage day after day, after the initial tossing also takes away some of the satisfaction. Also - don’t aim at a wall that is wallpapered. See above, regarding having to regularly view residual damage. So - select the right breakable piece - no crystal or family heirlooms - even if it is something mil gave you - and select the appropriate wall. After that - it’s the decision to toss in dh’s presence or while alone. If it’s likely to make dh fearful of your wrath for the rest of your marriage is a double edged sword. If it gets his attention and he starts to really take your frustration seriously- that’s good. But if he becomes afraid of you and/or thinks you’ve truly lost your mind - that’s bad. But - it is important that he not think you were actually aiming at him. That you were intending to hit him with the tossed crockery. That’s the kinda thing that’s hard to let go - verses an attention getting “Hey Butthead, I’m angry and I’m frustrated!” Lastly- vocalazation is important. I recommend a good primal scream as you heft the item and fling with all your might. It really adds to the moment and makes it extra satisfying. As far as clean up? If there are no children or small animals afoot - and there really shouldn’t be... too scary for young minds and gentle animals - so if none around - leave the broken pieces where they land. Then - and this part is really important - you go pour yourself a drink. A real drink. Only after that - the final, critical step in the Breaking of the Crockery - once that warm, alcoholic drink feeling begins to spread and seep into your stomach, your arms and legs... then you sweep up the pieces.
Yep. I highly recommend it.
Yep, MILs complaining is getting old. I’m afraid this story she’s stuck on, losing everything, is just where her demented mind is stuck. This May
replay non stop until she slips deeper into Dementia. DHs choice to sit and listen and let her drag him down into despair, not good. Wish he would pop in once or twice a week for a short visit and when she starts in just make his exit.
I get you are angry. Everything has kinda run off a cliff in your world. But, you are right, it’s like comparing apples and oranges. MIL is kinda an easy target as far as directing anger towards. Don’t ask about that situation!
I am not so sure wanting your brother and Bossy Boots present for biopsy results would help your emotions. I’m imagining her not being able to keep her mouth shut on how the situation should be handled going forward and literally pushing you over the edge.
Your other brother, has he never been involved in your Dads life? Just wondering if he might offer you some support rather than Bossy Boots husband?
Carefully planned breaking of the objects...very helpful. Much better than going outside with a baseball bat your kids left behind and attacking a fence post. 🙄. Not good on the wrists, shoulders.....
I too wish I could give you a big
(((HUG))).
Using a baseball bat to hit fenceposts - no no. The crockery throw - seems stressful to me; I'd be all worried about having a good aim! Using a baseball bat to hit baseballs - yes. I think you'd benefit from some forceful physical activity like going to a batting cage. My sister who is the one who lives close to my mother swears that her regular softball activities have been a great stress reliever for her.
I wish I could rail against the cancer that is in my husband's prostrate. But not with a baseball bat. Too much obvious pain.
There are some people who have caused us a good amount of legal stress this past year. I would love to have at their crockery.
I agree that having brother with bossy pants there at the diagnosis might not be the best choice. They don't strike me as too zen.
We went through the final months of DH's dad's life and my daddy's in the same 2 years. I was VERY involved in both of these men's care. Many days it was just overwhelming, physically and mentally, and DH just 'couldn't'.
And yes, it's apples and oranges. Whose parent was suffering the most? who was getting 'more' of my attention and who should I step it up for? Why wasn't last night's dinner something dad would eat? Why don't I make more fish?
Then mom is desperately needing respite care from dad and I'd go there and do what I could, but DH would kind of read me a riot act--that was time spent away from his dad----grrrrrrr
I blew up at DH one Sat. night as he laid on the couch, lazy as a bum having done NOTHING for Sunday prep and the house a wreck for lack of anybody doing anything. I threw a hairbrush in his general direction. Not AT him,. but close enough it scared him. My daughter still talks about it and she was about 19 at the time!
Then I discovered the batting cages at the local golfing range. A pocket full of quarters, my batting glove and my aluminum bat and I was good to go for an hour.
And I didn't have to clean up broken anything.
I'm so sorry about the mess your life is right now---Please take acre of yourself, don't expect much from brother (is he a step brother or is he K's bio child from a previous marriage?) Not that makes a ton of difference, Bossy boots is in charge anyhow.
Just be there for your dad. doesn't look good for him. You may have to help him the decisions about his care going forth. Does he want to do everything possible to buy time or is he ready to let the cloud come?
If he asks you to be there for him, the do so. You are actually helping, as opposed to visiting MIL, which sounds like such an energy suck. And pointless to boot.
You and DH may just have to divide and conquer, Let him know you're happy to talk about MIL if he is ready to give you equal time listening about your dad. You are off the 'visit MIL' rotation and your time is for your dad only. He can take care of MIL, to the point he wants to. There really isn't ANYTHING you can do for her. And her pity party doesn't need any more people invited.
Right now everything is crazy and new and scary. Focus on who and what you CAN do and do that and no more.
Maybe stop babysitting DD's kids for a bit, unless that is a source of joy for you.
My heart goes out to you--it will be hard for a while until some kind of equilibrium is found. You know that 50+ years of smoking is probably the root cause of all this--and I'm sure your dad does too. Even bringing that up, at this point is, well, pointless. It is what it is.
Please take care of you. Try to step right out of anything MIL. And if DH gets too sad going to visit her--well, he's been off the planet for 15 years about this, he can jolly well step up now. Or not. Methinks that when his mother does in fact, pass away, he is going to be a hot mess for a long time. (He's too much like my DH to not know that....although I am sure my MIL will outlive my DH.)
Prayers and good thoughts coming across the country to you.
You are becoming overwhelmed right now. It's an awful state to be in! Do your very best to pause and remember to take care of you! Whatever brings you the most comfort and stability and peace of mind, even for small portions of the day just has to be your priority, in order to deal with these challenges you are being dealt with at this point in your life and to stay strong for all your loved ones.
Sometimes I do think of our lives as a game, dealing with challenges that are always, always thrown at us all at varying stages of this game. The times of peace and respite do come, which I am thankful to be in right now. But I hold no delusions that the challenges won't arrive yet again, at some point, and I pray to build the strength for when they do.
This whole thread, to me, reflects YOUR strength, Dorker. It is you who are the stability and strength of your family, I think, and for that I give you great kudos. Wish some of us could be there with you for a cup of coffee to laugh and cry together. Just please girl, TAKE CARE OF YOU.
It's definitely going to be a rough road, but try as much as you can to seek out moments of peace. Prayer really helps too. The Lord will walk with you through the valley. And I would just let SIL and DH deal with the MIL situation. Just focus on helping your dad and taking care of you. And we're all here for you too.
So he has nothing at all to do with any of this situation. Youngest brother .. a different dad. The other brother, the one with bossy boots for a wife .. he is only about 2 years younger than myself (as opposed to youngest brother, about 9 years younger than me).
Frazzled defined it pretty succinctly, the frustration. MIL has had everyone running circles around her, FOR YEARS ............. to prop her up and keep her in her own home .. and now that it's over .. the propping up .. she is now to live in a facility, .. the pity pot has grown ever deeper and no end in sight.
Then there's my dad . not demanding of my time/energies .. and willing/able to hire outside help, has done so .. and willingly cooperative with that set up. Hooray for him!
Sensible! That's all I ask, is that too much to ask? Sensible?
Apparently so in MIL's case.
Have just arrived back home from the hospital . and feel better .. for the moment at least . about my dad's precarious situation. Want him to rest, thus I left. He is more stable at present .. and his stats look better. PT by to evaluate ..
Talked to cardio doc, who is changing/adding some meds .. asked if we could get him, when discharged (of course, knowing . plans forward .. fluid at this point, pending biopsy and results there) .. can we get him discharged to rehab . and cardio doc thought it a good idea, as did PT person .. but said it's up to the hospitalist .. and PT to recommend that. So will work that angle. Dad not opposed, thinks it's a great idea . to build strength.
In fact, my dad asking of me, to act in his stead (details of that I dunno) . to work the angle to keep K in rehab longer (tentative discharge for her, at this point is 5/7) .. best laid plans ............ as they say ............ but .............. if he could be sent to rehab at discharge, if her's could be extended .. so they can both strengthen . .as neither are able to care for themselves at this point, much less each other.
And .. I happen to know . while dad is not opposed at all to in home help . his wife . that will be a tangle to get her to agree to same. So .. I just don't know.
As to brother and bossy boots and their presence, at any biopsy . which at this point it's said cardio needs to sign off as stabilized before pulmonary can proceed . though it's said that cardio looks more stable at this point . but we'll have to see what cardio/pulmonary decide as to proceeding on biopsy .. but .. I guess I'd thought .. that I could ask of him to come for biopsy and whether he brings bossy boots or not . up to him .. I didn't even give her much airplay in my own mind .. whether she comes or doesn't. I guess that gets more airplay in his mind .. than mine.
But you guys are right . might be best he stay away in the end anyhow .. as bossy boots and her opinions .. (usually unsolicited and sometimes unwarranted) . might fall like a thud .. in that setting.
Yes, a lifetime smoker, he assumed the risk this would be the outcome I'm sure. And did he have that yearly screening as for lung cancer, and if not why not. I wouldn't know, deeply secretive these folks have always been ..
The only reason I'm front and center right now is because his wife is indisposed . .and unable to attend to him .. and thus . she with her own problems, the door to the secretive world has been shoved wide open .. subject to slam shut pending better days (I'm sure).
K can please herself and return home with whatever help she can hire. She cannot, and should not be calling the shots for your dad's care. She has dementia.
Why?
Because he has a wife who has dementia .. and needs to be by his side all the time, .. (per her) . .and ... needs to have "some" supervision .. and guidance in daily judgement, etc.
Dad not opposed even at that point, in hiring in-home help .. he go to Rehab . her go home with help available to her there .. hired.
She wouldn't hear of it. Thus he went home .. to look after her, in his compromised state.
Will be the same with going forward .. he can go do whatever he pleases .. as to going to rehab or beyond .. but she will need supervison/care . and getting her to agree to same, will be like tangling with a lion.
She will be discharged home alone. And it will not be a safe discharge .
YOU don't have to tangle with her. The rehab sw has to do that.
Has dad had the biopsy? They can pull results very quickly from those...or they can do the double/triple thing where the biopsy is sent straight to path and they initial results are almost immediate, but not in depth. The more lengthy tests show a deeper and better analysis of what's going on.
Sadly, your dad is just not going to have the ability to care for himself and K any longer. This is something we've seen over and over on the AC boards.
I wish, for your sake, that you had a better relationship with K's family, but that's probably a no-go. Time to put pettiness aside and do what is BEST for both of them.
Perhaps they can move into AL as a couple--my aunt and uncle are currently residing as such. It has worked very well. They've moved from "extremely independent" apartments to her living in small on bedroom apartment and he is in a more advanced care place. She can still see him everyday and eats with him at least 2 meals a day and they spend most of the days together. Sharp as tacks, both of them. At 94, the kind of the people who should be posing for 'quality life at an upscale retirement center'. Definitely no slumpers in this place.
Please put MIL on the back burner--of someone else's kitchen and give the reins for her care firmly to DH. Your dad needs you now and he is actually probably MUCH sicker than MIL is on her worst day.
You won't regret stepping away from MIL and into dad's support group.
Dad's biopsy slated for Thursday.
As to whether or not any cognitive thing has been done as to stepmom .. just .. oy vey!
I was reaching out . in attempt to get step sister to see about extending stepmom's stay there at rehab .. at my dad's request (he's far too sick/weak to be waging these battles).
The angle there ..
He, of course, we won't know his path yet ... not until that biopsy and what goes on there . but assuming there is a discharge of some sort upcoming .. we want it (he and myself) to be to a rehab .. and so working that angle, as to his well being.
Well .. stepmom is slated to be released from her rehab for bypass . on 5/7. She will then be sent home. My dad won't be there .. more than likely .. if we can get his care directed to rehab stay, which is what we hope to do and it looks achievable .. but all his .. there are some contingencies there.
But as to her .. if she could just stay longer .. get stronger, in her rehab stay . then .. no one would have to concern themselves with her whereabouts and her well being ..
I had urged my dad .. though he's in no shape to advocate even for himself at this point . but also urging step sister .. to get stepmom evaluated for cognitive issues while confined there. Plays into the above scenario .. in the respect .. she has some mild dementia . that's apparent, though never dx'd .. and .. heretofore . she's had my dad there .. to be the other half of her impaired judgement abilities, etc, impaired memory ..
That won't be the case when she returns home.
So .. trying .. behind the scenes at least .. to get things directed (if it's possible to do) that she stay longer in rehab .. but the only means I have to even hope to achieve the impossible there is via her daughter.
Trying to connect with her daughter .. has been near impossible.
I did finally connect with her tonight:
Me: "Did you give any thought at all, to trying to advocate to get your mom's stay extended at rehab . ya know, I'm over here working an angle that my dad be sent to rehab at discharge . so he's not gonna be at home to look after her, and help her .. so . have you given that any thought?".
Stepsister: "No ........... she was given the 14 days in rehab . that'll be up on 5/7 .. and she's going home .. no .. she's up and doing her rehab and knows she is to go home on 5/7 and so shes' going home ... we'll just have to hire f/t help that's all there is to it".
Me: "Did you ever get her looked at for cognitive issues .. I mean .. some of that comes into play in all this .. and leaving her there alone . unable to get around and drive herself .. as to going to see dad, look after herself, etc".
Stepsister: "No, and I'm not going to do that .. because they'll take her driving license . and . .. I don't want them to do that"
Me; "Should she be driving .. w/her issues?".
Stepsister: "As long as she stays in the confines of her familiar driving areas, she does alright .. and ... between your dad and her .. they seem to make a whole .. and so .. I don't want her driver's license taken and if I get that looked at . it may get taken, so no we haven't had that looked at".
Me: "okay".
Done all I can do on that front.
Here's what's going to happen. Hired help will be brought in .. but K (stepmom) will send them packing (her judgement is impaired) .. and so that won't last ..
In turn, . .she will be there alone, as step sister who has her own mental health issues routinely stomps off . infuriated w/her mom. This in turn, will amp up my dad's anxiety knowing that she's there with no hired help .. and so .. escalate it all will.
But out of my control. I'm not fighting that battle. I'm doing what I can for my dad and his well being (advocating for rehab at discharge . .working with the case manager on same .. and trying to reach the pulmonary docs with some questions I have on the biopsy to be done later this week, helping him in any way
Helping him in any way that I can .. and outside of that, the rest of it goes by the wayside, as far as I'm concerned.
MIL still continues to whine .. it will never change. So be it. But I will definitely be far too entrenched in the scene that is my dad's saga to be mired in MIL's.
In fact, there is a care team meeting tomorrow at the Purgatory site where MIL is . and I had been on the agenda to be attending that and that's now . off my agenda .. in lieu of working my dad's saga.
As to what happens with his wife .. and that scene . not on my watch .. I don't know . .I've done all I can on that front.
Hope you are taking care of yourself.
Just take care of dad.
He can't go home. Make sure you make that clear to discharge folks. Do you know how house is titled?
Got that done with, then off to the dept store to find my dad an electric razor, his request, .. and then up to the hospital . there .. visiting him, . .talking to case manager, . helping to get the razor unpacked and plugged in to charge .. and get him to drink more .. and talk to the nurse about whether they got his Melatonin on board .. and his Senakot .. and his .. cough syrup .. and his Probiotic to counter act the antibiotic . yes they did. Putting out word to talk to the Pulmonary people .. talking to the hospitalist about discharge to Rehab if that's possible, as well as the case manager.
Then out of the hospital, flew home in too much traffic .. because we were scheduled for a photo at the church .. (church directory being put together). Tried to reschedule that, but no available time slots left.
Home, showered, . dressed, ready for that .. left for church for the picture session . and there is when I realized I hadn't eaten a bite of anything all day long and was starving . hadn't taken the time to eat all day. Did have my trusty water bottle with me, never leave home without it. So I had been hydrating all day, but was starving.
But fortunately, I knew one of the church folks was bringing dinner by . .and so I returned home . and dinner was here waiting for me .. and nothing ever tasted so good.
Then it was off .. to my dad's house . on the other side of town, to retrieve a form that he needs .. so as to get that signed and in the mail . has to do with some HSA they have .. and reimbursement.
There . I noticed, .. unoccupied home. the kitchen garbage was beginning to smell bad . so bagged that up .. put a clean bag in it, . stepped aside to go check for that form .. and then found it, grabbed my keys and gone.
Back home .. is when I realized that bagged trash I intended to haul out to the garbage can outside, .. I left it right there in the kitchen floor . bagged up .. waiting to be taken outside .. and not done. <not like me at all, usually very conscientious and thorough . and task oriented>
So will have to go back there again tomorrow morning .. way on the other side of town . .simply for that reason alone .. before I head to the hospital again.
So .. ???... taking care of me? Not so good today. Maybe tomorrow will be better.
Stepsister really isn’t going to be helpful is she?
Barb really did bring up a good question as to how the house is titled.
I had my Stepdad with a Cancer Dx and Mom with Dementia. Any suggestions or advice I would have would be premature.
Until Thursday, take care of your Dad and yourself. Get all the rest you possibly can. Let SIL and DH handle all things MIL. You shouldn’t be expected to participate or listen to what’s going on with MIL for the next few days.
It would be a good thing in general to alert a neighbor that both Dad and K are in the hospital so that they can keep an eye on the house. You might think about having the mail temporarily held at the PO or delivered to you.
I'm in and out of there, will be going there again this morning. If I see that their neighbors .. any that are directly surrounding neighbors, are out .. I'll certainly introduce myself and ask that they keep an eye out there. But generally speaking, they're never home .. .has been my experience. But I'm not there in the evening hours.
A quick search online at the property appraiser site .. shows the tax roles at least .. for that property .. in my dad's name solely.
I don't know how the house is titled ... (remember how secretive and private these folks have always been).
I do know that a late night conversation with my dad . a week or so back . him discussing "some" of the concerns .. as to last wishes, so forth.
Remember, .. this is an "old money" kinda area .. remember .. that his wife has her own $ .. remember that they have, all thru these years .. kept their finances separate ..
Knowing all that .. and then the little dialogue had between my dad and myself .. him expressing some of the concerns .. etc. He was imparting to me that he has sent me, yes he has .. I just have to find it ......... years ago .. that my brother and myself are his beneficiaries on his investment accounts .. (yes he did send that to me, quite some time back and I filed it away and forgot it). No, I have no idea what his investment accounts would be worth . nor have I asked.
He also .. in this late night convo .. expressed .. how K .. (her dad owned a hardware store, all his life . .and in an area that is also *old money* and hasnow become a real trendy/yuppie like area ............... K and her siblings hung onto that property all these years .. her folks have been deceased probably 20 years or more .. but that K and the siblings held onto that property . until within the last few years .. it was sold for .. so my dad says .. a million plus .. and so K and the siblings .. 5 in total . inherited that $. And I guess there were some squabbles, .. neither here nor there as pertains to me .. and my brother .. some squabbles between K and her siblings over all that .. the proceeds of that sale.
Whatever, . neither here nor there.
In the end, . I guess his telling me that was to tell me that K has set that aside .. whatever proceeds were realized after the payment to an atty to help settle the squabbles .. that K has set that $ aside .. to be left for her g'children (3 of them .. has 3 on her side).
Neither here nor there, as any proceeds that came to K, .. from her family of origin .... I have no squabble with as to it somehow being mine. Don't care.
Him also imparting .. (of course, . as with so much, I don't know much .. they've always been so private) .. there is apparently a condo (real estate investment picked up along the way somewhere), . not far from them. Rented it out all these years .. I guess .. at one time, step sister owned it .. lived there .. (all this is news to me) .. and so I guess, at the time she was selling it .. they bought it . so it is owned .. free/clear by my dad and his wife. Him telling me this, .. imparting ot me a situation that rubbed him wrong, within the few days prior. It goes about like this .. the renter had called, some problem with the electric in the condo, needing attention .. stepsister picked up that call .. and so .. imparting that info .. dad had replied, "Okay I'll get an electrician over there" .. to which stepsister replied, "I'll take care of it" .. Rubbed
Rubbed him wrong, from the respect .. it was almost .. seemingly to him .. as if stepsister was taking "ownership" of not only the problem but implicit in that .. somehow assumed by her, that condo is her's to deal with and as such . her's in the event of their demise .. is seemingly how my dad took it . and so rubbed him wrong.
I asked him, "what is it that you guys have set up as to how that is to be dealt with?".
His answer: "Dorker, . .we don't have anything really set up ... ".
Me: "You don't have a will?".
Dad: "No .. I've never been able to get K .. the queen of procrastination .. never been able to get the water to the wheel and let's get this all settled .. "
Me: "Well have you guys ever discussed what you want done with it?".
Dad: "Well if I had my way .. that will be sold, or held onto whatever you guys wanna do, between you and your brother and your stepsister . .. the 3 of ya .. but . .. I think K has other fancies as to how that will be dealt with and her g'children will be dealt into that hand also .. and I don't agree with that".
Me: "I don't either, .. if K .. wants her g'children to have a share of whatever that is .. then that should come out of the proceeds stepsister is entitled to .. is how i look at it".
Dad: A nod of . "you betcha" .. and responded to with: "Yea, that's kinda how I see it .. but we've never been able to get the water to the wheel on that issue and get it haggled out .. and settled".
Me: "Dad you guys really really need an atty . and we have a good one working on MIL's issues .. I can certainly give you his name and phone # .. you guys really really need to get some of this settled .. "
Dad: A look of disgust . and a response of: "yea .. I know it, but dealing with K and getting these matters attended to .. and dealt with .. she's the queen of procrastination and talking over it all . one has to . in the end, just drop it .. causes too much consternation and never gets settled.
He goes on to impart how much K has helped her daughter . and her 3 g'children thru the years financially .. that with the sale of her parents home . years and years ago . .waterfront home .. those proceeds went to each sibling (5 of them) and those monies .. were set aside in trust for each of the g'children . that K never spent a dime of that $ .. having it set up in a trust for her g'children. His point in all that .. that she "HAS" helped her daughter and her g'children ..
I then asked him: "What about this home .. ???... what are you setting up as to this home?"
The very home we were sitting in .. his home.
His answer: "There again Dorker, .. I haven't been able to get that haggled out either with her .. I think if she had her druthers . that too .. will be dealt to her g'children as well as her daughter .. ".
Me: "And me and my brother?, . we figure into that in any way?".
Dad: "there again, if I have my druthers .. it's to be split 3 ways .. you, your brother and your stepsister . and if she cares to share what is her portion of any proceeds that's up to her .. but K I think has other idea .. that the g'kids get doled in on it all".
Me: "Well I guess that's one way to do it .. I guess if that's how it's to be done, then your g'children too get doled in on it all, and now instead of it being split 3 ways between my brother and myself and stepsister it gets doled out and split 11 ways .. her 3 g'children included in, but also your 5 g'children and us 3 siblings .. is that what it's gonna be"
Dad: "That all seems senseless to me .. that's not how I'd want it .. but I haven't ever been able to get her to put the shoulder into it all and let's get it settled once and for all".
Me: Dad you do realize that in your coming years (this is before things took at turn south, .. at this point I was helping him . at home . .with what was bronchitis . .and not pneumonia, and Afib . .. and a mass in his lung) .. in the coming years . yours and mom's care .. could eat up
any and all proceeds you guys have worked hard and scrimped and saved all your lives to build . that's just how it works . and that's .. in part why you do that .. but in some cases, atty's can shelter some of it .. and that's even more reason why you guys need to be getting with an atty . and get some of this settled once and for all".
Dad: "There again Dorker, .. getting your stepmom to put the shoulder to the wheel in it all. .. a task I've never been able to achieve .. and pay an atty .. CHIT! .. she'd rather die . than hand over $ to an atty .. ".
Me: "She saw what happened when she and her siblings all fought over the sale of the proceeds of that hardware store, and the atty ended up getting a cut of it .. and it sickened her, .. as you say . to have to fork over some of it to an atty . wouldn't it make better sense to get it all settled up front .. and pay an atty to help get that all done, and shelter that which can be sheltered if possible .. makes better sense to me".
Dad: a look of . "h377 yes".
That about sums of the whole of any dialogue ever had between me and my dad on the topics above.
And of course, since then . his situation has become a little more dire, so it seems at this point .. we won't know yet. But he is also a helluva lot more weak .. and less able to stand and push forward . in his own maladies at present.
I was really shocked and dismayed to have heard all this . not from the respect that I may be screwed/blued and tattoo'd as to any inheritance I'd of ever stood to get .. I never knew . what they have .. knew they have $ .. but .. how much .. kinda a periphery issue if that even. Shocked/dismayed .. really more from the standpoint that if I knew one thing about my dad all these years and one thing only .. it was that he is meticulous and organized . and has his ducks in a row, always .. and then some!
To learn that is not the case at all, as to the dispensing of material assets at the end of his life .. just a shear utter shock to me, .. I mean it, really.
I don't think I ever gave any thought much to .. "gee I know my dad has $ .. and his wife has $ .. how much of that is gonna be mine one day?".
Them being so very secretive and private . and never sharing any details of their lives .. I guess I never really gave it any thought at all, to be honest. If I did I probably figured, they had things set up how they want them .. and one day when we sit in an atty office to hear their last will, it will have been set up . the way they wanted it .. like it or lump it . whatever those results are .. it's what they wanted ...
To learn that hasn't been done, and to learn that there hasn't even been a meeting of the minds between the two .. as to how to dispose of material assets at the end of their lives .. and it all remains up in the air . tossed to the wind . is just shocking/dismaying, to say the least. It's nothing I've ever known my dad to be .. loose ends.
All I know for certain at this point, is that there is an investment account .. and that has always been solely in his name . and it has already been set up with myself and brother as beneficiaries . at his demise. That's all I know for certain.
What I don't know is this condo somewhere they own (news to me, Didn't even know there was any other real estate owned by the two of them) . that it .. I don't know whose name it is in, . where it is ... (I could find out doing a property search, just haven't done it) .. and what they want done with that .. I don't know .. as to the home they reside in .. (a home probably worth some $400k .. give or take some) .. that home .. what is to be done with that.
I guess, .. at this point .. it looks to me .. absent any willingness .. or ability which is very much at play this present day . with both of them down for the count in their maladies ... absent any "plan" and legal documentation of same. ... I guess whatever assets they have will .. in the end .. go to the
surviving spouse .. (another thing I always supposed if I ever even gave it any thought) . and so if my dad goes first . it all goes to the wife . and her demented mind .. and her .. coming days of being unable to figure finances and so forth as her dementia worsens in the coming years . and so stepsister will then .. stand in line .. she and her 3 kids .. for what assets there are.
That's all I know ..
I know that dad can't .. not stand and fight that battle, not right now . he's far too sick to wage that battle at this point.
His wife .. that whole other piece .. I'd' hoped they'd want to get that cognitive impairment looked at and better defined . but read prior posts on dialogue had with stepsister on that topic. That's not to be .. that dementia piece of all this . is not gonna get a closer look and my hands are tied behind my back to change any of that.
I'm sorry it irritated him, but it does sound as though stepsister was ahead of him in terms of how well he was at the time, don't you think? I'd assume she was trying to save him work. And make sure the job got done, on the "if you want a job done properly" principle. If she thought your Dad wasn't up to it you can't exactly say she was wrong.
You're going to have to have preliminary talks with stepsister about what to do about finding out about the money. This is actually nothing to do with their respective estates. If your father is going to need care, you need access to his finances to fund it. End of. Whatever he wants done with his residual estate is a separate issue. Same goes for K. Make it clear that you're not hunting out exciting pots of gold here, it's a fact-finding exercise to untangle any finances they have regrettably tangled.
The usual reason for people being secretive about their assets is that they think, correctly, that if greedy people don't know about them they can't get their paws on them. The downside of course is that responsible people, now acting on behalf of their infirm or incapacitated elders, don't have the information they need.
This is going to be a little bit trying.
Grit your teeth and be blunt. Don't entertain any paranoid nonsense.
To be honest I'd be most irritated with your father. Okay, he didn't want to start emotive discussions with your stepmother about joint assets; but how did that stop him getting his own act together?
Im sorry if this sounds unkind. A kinda kick you while you’re down comment but... WTF?!!
Your MIL and now your father - have surely become the poster image on how NOT to do things when you’re
heading into those “golden years”.
For effs sake! Sorry.
What a mess.
And what a ROTTEN time to try to be dealing with it!
Your dad really married a control freak, didn't he? "K's gonna be so mad"--good grief!! When I finally made the appt with our attorney last year my DH went with me and looked like somebody had shot his dog the entire time. I had done almost every single thing to make this trust be as simple as painless for him to digest as I could. Honestly, our attorney spent less than an hour with us. And that was mostly chit chat, as I had filled out ALL the forms and provided ALL the paperwork, all he did was have a secretary input all this info into a lovely leather portfolio and make it "make sense". We only paid $1500 for the whole shebang and we get a yearly update for free.
I didn't freaking CARE that DH was unhappy. This had to be done.
"K" doesn't want to make a will with HIM, sounds like. She's got a trust set up for her kids and grandkids? Then she's not opposed to legal help. She's just opposed as far as the stepkids are considered. Your dad dies and she will inherit all his stuff--being his spouse. No wonder she won't make a will with him.
Dad can go online and make a will that is as valid as any other. Now, I'm not saying that K won't fight it, tooth and nail, but he can do that. Or even just write down what he wants.
For sure if he doesn't do SOMETHING, he will die and everything will go to K and you will never see a cent of anything dad might have wanted YOU to have.
If ya'll can live with that, then let him be. Inheritances, well they are gifts, plain and simple. I have no idea if we will outspend our principal or not in the future. (My Dh's health is so waffly---he could easily spend years in some kind of ALF and I will be living on crumbs.)
Our kids stand to inherit nicely and not a single one of them needs it. My MIL would cut me dead out of her will if she could do it w/o also cutting DH out. I honestly believe she will outlive him, and all this is pointless.
Ugh.
Right now, you just need to be there for your dad. I'm sorry that years of estrangement with K has left you out of the loop--but that is not the issue.
Take care of You. Then give dad what support he needs. Until you have that biopsy done, you aren't sure what the endgame looks like. He may opt for aggressive tx and you will be there for him. As far as the steps--really sounds like you are splitting into camps--that's normal, but annoying.
Do for dad what you can, and let K's kids have their delusions that their mom can live alone and be 'fine'. They maybe need the 'come to Jesus' moment where they realize that mom is NOT Ok. Your dad has been propping her up for some time.
Really-- this case sounds like a lawyer's dream. Untangling mixed finances, rentals, multiple ownerships of properties-- all with 2 old, sick people whose memories may or may not be the sharpest.
Right now focus on dad. Ignore MIL's whining, that's not ever changing.
Be there for dad. The news may likely be life altering. Just try to prepare to be there for him. K can't be, as she's still in rehab.
I have heard you're having an early hurricane season---well, for you, it has hit ground. I'm so sorry.
((Hugs))