I've posted before about in-law care-giving. Aged mother in law, lives in same town.
We are at the tail end of a visit from sister in law from several states away. Sister in law has been here for 3 weeks caring for her mother. A much welcome respite.
It had been discussed, prior to her arrival here on the scene, she would be talking it over with her mother, to try and get her mom to come up to her home, for a stay of maybe a few months.
This, in my opinion, is absolutely essential, as I am expecting twin grand-children, due in about 1 month (if they don't come sooner, as is the case a lot of times with multiples pregnancies). The expectant mother also lives locally here, and has a 4 year old daughter. I will be on that front, helping .. as much as is needed. And not on the front with mother in law and care-giving, and have made that as obvious and apparent as I know how to make it. It would be great if mother in law would agree to go to her daughter's home (several states away) for a period of a few months .. and allow me the latitude to put my energies where I want them to be, on my daughter who will have had a c-section .. and my grand-daughter (4 years old) and new twin babies.
Nothing doing. Mother in law has dug in her heels, and will not hear of it, going to stay with her daughter for any period of time.
What are her reasons?
In mother in law's defense ... her daughter ... I don't even know how to describe it. I will say that when her daughter comes here to visit, she all but breathes for her mother and if she could find a way to do that, she'd do that too. She is the most nervous nelly, never sit down - ever ... worry wart, do everything, all the time .. person that I've ever encountered.
A great example, as I was taking her to the airport yesterday for her departure, . I reached into the fridge to grab myself a bottled water and shut the fridge and turned to walk away, as I've done for all of my 50 plus years living on this earth .. and she said to me, "Oh make sure that fridge shut". WTH???? Like I don't know how to shut a fridge? That's just a small, very small slice of what she is ... how she is.
She is so very hyper-vigilant, seeing to every minute details down to it's finest most minuscule point, fine tooth comb, questioning every point along the way, "should we do thus and so, but maybe if we do thus and so, then such and such will happen, maybe we should do it thus and so .. but then so and so might happen, maybe we shouldn't do thus and so, but do "x" "y" and "z" instead, but if we don't do it that way then ..........", on and on and on and on it goes. And usually in hyper warp speed, as to every single friggin thing.
If her mother moans .. "what's wrong mother?, why did you moan, are you alright?".
Mother: "Yes, I'm fine, I was just sighing out loud".
Sister: "Why did you sigh? Are you hurting, are you sure you're alright, why are you sighing what's the matter?"
Mother: "For God's sake __________________, I was just sighing, .. calm down, I'm fine".
Sister: "Are you sure, .. because if something is wrong you need to tell me".
Mother: "Everything is fine, I'm fine".
Sister: "Are you sure, we did a lot yesterday, did we do too much, maybe we shouldn't of gone to two doctors in one day .. was that too much for you, are you too tired now, maybe we need to move those other doctor appointments so we won't have two in one day, is that too much for you, for one day .. is that why you were sighing .. what's wrong, are you sure you're alright".
Hopefully that kinda gives a little bit of a snapshot of what goes on when sister is in the ring directing things.
So in mother in law's defense.. I do get it, why she wouldn't be chomping at the bit to go to her daughter's home.
BUT ....
The only experience she has with her daughter, in the last years as mother in law has aged and been unable to go anywhere much, has been the daughter coming here, periodically, for periods of about 3 weeks at a stretch. When her daughter comes here, she moves heaven and earth for her mother and then some, and doesn't sit down, doesn't stop .. the WHOLE ENTIRE TIME.
Is there a possibility maybe (as I said to mother in law, when she expressed that isn't happening - talking to me - her going to her daughters .. ever) .. could it be possible that maybe if you would go to where she lives .. she'd be more busy managing her own life in that setting than your's and she would get out of your backside .. and not be as hyper-drive-vigilant as you experience in her, when she's here, could that be possible.
The daughter is retired, lives several states away. Does come here, generally, every few months .. and stays for a period of about 3 weeks at a stretch. I wish I could make a list of everything the daughter did when here this last time, but it would take up the whole character allotment:
SIL is a hopeless control freak. Everything SIL “puts out there” is a sisyphian effort to make WHAT SIL WANTS more important than WHAT IS.
Every phone call. Every text-a-thon. Every plane trip. Every stint as an in-home caregiver. Every distraught visit to MIL’s facility. Every sleepless night. Every once-in-a-blue-moon concession to spend a measly 30-60 minutes with you & DH as fellow adults (as opposed to pieces on her chessboard).
SIL’s “my way or the highway” is cloaked in a campaign of strung-out fretting. Peppered with false humility and real physical breakdowns.
If someone is far enough away and squints, SIL’s machinations look like Daughter Of The Year material. (And yes, SIL cares. She’s not a monster.)
Sadly, SIL’s emotional wiring is a one-way trip to “If only ________ would agree to what I want.” It’s SIL’s reaction to everything.
And......
1.) SIL comes by it honestly. MIL is exactly the same. [Notice how MIL “miraculously” remembered Poochie when she was being a miserable narcissistic AZZ about SIL & BIL needing to get back to their own life after all these months? Grrrrrr.]
2.) This is why SIL & BIL fit together like puzzle pieces. BIL is SIL’s perfect foil - because his independent thinking is medically blunted.
Also - The unintentionally hilarious suggestion that dementia-brain MIL should start jotting down the names of her “mean” caregivers gave me a flashback to my frustrating years with my Mom’s decline.
Throughout my Mom’s stubborn, unsafe semi-independence, she refused to stop driving. She lived “in the sticks” — does everyone say that? or is it regional?
Country roads and no sidewalks.
Good, bad, young or old, DRIVING is essential to rural living. Everything a human being wants or needs is a drive away. (For some, that includes the mailbox.) Plenty of ways to screw up with a riding lawn mower, too.
Anyhoo: More than one well-meaning person suggested that a good way to resolve my Mom’s atrocious driving was for her to move to a “walking community.” SERIOUSLY???!? Mom’s walking was worse than her driving! [face palm]
Dorker, don’t let the b*stards
get you down. Your father is your main priority — and your only distraction.
And yes, Dad might be in nicotine withdrawal. Ask around about that..... the medical staff can make that easier for him.
Let DH and your daughters spin their wheels for MIL. Or not. Their choice. But whatever they choose, it cannot and will not involve you.
Fellow readers: Anyone else suspect that MIL’s snit in the hair salon line was a thinly veiled “first shot” at recruiting DD as her personal visiting hairdresser? Oh how SPECIAL. No need to wait in line — like those inferior slumpers, inferior Chatty Cathys and inferior well-adjusted residents who have made peace with their surroundings.
Get ready.....
Or, they view others as satellites and she is at the center. Control is an essential part of her ego. It gives her self-esteem, earns supposedly, the esteem of others, and also, is a big big way of dealing with her inner fears regardless of anyone else's needs.
OR maybe she's what I call a "Psychic Vampire": sucking the life out of others - Narcissism.
Just say no. Try to be firm, express your anger and do what you need to do.
Blessings - and be strong. You're appeasing others at the cost of your needs and personal strength. It drains you until you lose your self-assertion and just obey You're hurting too much.
I think it's a women's thing. I know I go clean a closet when I'm trying to "prove" how "good and worthy" I am compared to others...again, prayers.
Even if she somehow crosses that threshold, it doesn't answer to the fact, she is not aware of time management, to get herself to any dining room .. she is incontinent a good deal of the time, and not even really self-aware enough to be pro-active in Depends and so forth . ahead of time ...
This to me, does not sound like someone a candidate for what is a true AL. And the fact, these places will "sell you" .. on any number of things they will "help" with . but the reality will turn out to be .. that they cannot offer that much assistance in an AL setting . if she needs that much assistance, .. then SNF it needs to be .. slumpers and all .. that she so disdains.
Don't fight that battle anymore. I stay out of it, but it does .. hearing it . make my blood boil . as the latest whirligig that will be the "fix" of unicorns and rainbows in it all, as it's always been.
And on my dad's front, going there in a bit . to help with getting some of his bills addressed .. and visiting him for a bit hopefully (and no longer than for a bit hopefully) .. and on with my day/life ..
Texting with my brother . who says the following: "Talked to dad yesterday . seemed all was well on that front . as well as it can be anyway .. he needs to work more on ambulating".
I just wanted to blast him (he who is absent the damn scene . sans the 1 1/2 hours he spends here maybe once a week . he and BB).
He did . the other day . the day he got the good news from Pathology . he did get up and walk the hall, farther than what was expected of him.
The next day we were into the throes of a collapsed lung . subsequent to the needle biopsy and he hadn't eaten since 6 PM the night before, so you're damn right .. he had no PT that day .. had they come .. I'd of headed them off . they didn't . and who/what the h377 do you know, you aren't here .. going to retrieve mail from his house, . working with the yard guy to get him paid . in dad's absence there . working with someone to order pressure washing of his house, while they aren't there to deal with the headache of it . as per his request . working with and talking to docs on site . what the h377 do you know ..
And so yes, the day he had yet again . a collapsing lung on him . had PT showed up I'd of headed them off. Yesterday .. I wasn't there, but per dad's report, they did come and he sat on the edge of the bed and did some leg/foot movements with PT .. and so .. we'll see what today holds on that front.
I just wanna slap him .. "needs to work on ambulating more". What the h377 do you know, you aren't even here!
I think the only reason that wasn't attempted ..
Where are ya gonna cut her hair? In the room shared with Chatty Cathy . now hair clippings all in the floor and clean up how? Bring a broom with ya .. and dust pan .. borrow one from clean up crew ..??.....take MIL outside . in the hopes it's not a windy day and it's possible to cut her hair .. her wet hair as she sits outside to do that chore .. ??.....
I think that had likely been thought through and the best option looked .. "hey we'll just get her seen at the hair salon".
Well that was attempted but MIL found herself sixth in line of wheelchairs or whatever it was and waiting .. (as we all have to do is we go visit a hairstylist) .. wasn't something at all suitable.
In the end, someone did come retrieve MIL later in the day for her hair to be attended to, and so it was done, in the hair salon . but as SIL put it, .. "they didn't cut enough off in the back, left it too long".
Just a matter of time before DD is summoned to meet that need. And how the details of it all get worked out is beyond me. DD used to go to MIL's house . .and need hair color . no problem . .sit right here in this chair and we'll get it done . now time to rinse .. well hobble on over here in your walker, . and brace off against the edge of the sink and lean your head into the sink, we'll get it rinsed for ya .. and now time for a haircut . hobble on back to your perch there at the kitchen table and I'll get my scissors out . we'll get it done .. and I'll sweep up all the hair and dispose of it ..
All of that .. I'm sure will be problematic in the present setting .. lean over what sink . the bathroom sink .. lower than is her kitchen sink that she utilized when living at home .. hair clippings flying everywhere and clean up of same ..
Not sure how that will be dealt with in a visit from DD to speak to it ....
But it's coming .. wait and watch.
That would fall short, .. inclusive of what she receives monthly .. by what we've seen in pricing at AL's .. some of them ... to the tune of some range of $300 - $500 monthly and so I suppose, that offset would have to be met by us .. forking over $150/$250 monthly ... to meet the cost.
I'm guessing that's about the sum of that whole expectation. Not opposed to doing that .. what I am opposed to . .is that .. she is not AL material .. and whether she ever gets there .. strength wise .. that won't answer to her "abilities" and mental function . and so to continue to dangle that hope out there when . IMO that should be put to her . that AL .. she simply is not going to be able to cut the mustard in that setting.
Maybe (but it's a big big maybe) she could get there, as to ambulating around on her wheely walker (doubtful) .. but that's not going to speak to the incontinence, the frequency with chitapalooza that she is plagued with and inability to clean up after herself and make the appropriate dietary restrictions during same . and to act with precaution and wear Depends .. in advance, not after the fact, . .and time management .. and so forth ..
She just isn't going to be a candidate for AL .. not IMO . and for them to be holding that dangling carrot up .. to her or to themselves is pie in the sky whirligig thinking they are all so famous for.
Because of her health issues and her general sense of apathy it would seem that the difference would not be as striking to her.
Maybe Purgatory #2 will have some staff that is not overly offensive to her or she will adjust to this life (even if in the tiniest way) and the new setting may give a better impression. That would be the final place so maybe all can establish more of a regular communication and schedule.
DH proved what a GREAT help he is in a semi-crisis. I remember when my Dh's dad would have a fecal blowout and I'd have to deal with it. DH would gag, literally, and somehow thought I was better suited to cleaning up the diarrhea. Why? He'd changed as many diapers as I had in our lives--I guess he was just too emotionally involved.
It IS problematic that 10 minutes can go by w/o a nurse/CNA showing up----BUT, knowing MIL, they could be thinking "OMG, not HER again" b/c she is not nice and easy to care for. The aides are always found to be wanting in some regard.
And you're right about those call buttons. My DH is a strong man, but when he was weak/sick, he could barely push the buttons. Does a light come on in the hall or something to indicate she's called? Check on that--could be as simple as that.
MIL doesn't have any choice but to fall in line. She doesn't have SIL hand holding and fussing, and won't for a while (I assume SIL is returning as soon as possible).
In no regard is MIL ready for an AL. She has to be able to toilet herself and clean up afterwards and dress herself. Probably would require she show up for meals, too. That's just not going to happen. She's not motivated enough and she also doesn't remember well enough.
I know I have harped on this: why didn't she get a cog eval done? This would go miles towards giving her CG's a baseline to work with. I'm sure they get that she's pretty far gone--but it's sometimes hard to know if someone has dementia to some degree or they are just 'that way'.
Good for you for taking care of your dad. He's lucky to have you and your amazing skills.
If anybody qualified for a lovely Mother's Day it would be you. And you'll probably spend it hauling some shrimp basket to MIL. Don't just fuss her, fuss yourself too.
{{Hugs}}
And, BTW, a SOLID NO on DD coming to do her hair. Her roomie may not love having snippets of hair blowing around the room. And how often does she need a cut & color? Seems like it's a lot. Or is she a "helmet head" with the teasing and half can of hairspray so her 'do' holds for a week? Still--one more way she's just NOT that 'special'.
Wrong, I guess.
Pathology tracked me down on the phone .. or rather Oncology.
They'd tried to go in and talk to him, .. both Pulmonary and Oncology and he has refused both .. as he did before, not wanting to talk to them, .. talk to my daughter . I don't want to talk about it. Oncology doctor concurs .. his thoughts . my dad's .. I just want to get stronger and get well, as much as I can before I deal with any of this news. I agree.
Squamous cell lung cancer. Per Pathology.
Next step they say is to have a PET scan . maybe 2 or 3 weeks out from now, when he's hopefully had a chance to get a little stronger .. as it was said to me, if he's strong enough to go to Rehab which we hope within the next several days .. and participate there . .then he's strong enough to get to outpatient PET scan . and get that done. There, the purpose is staging. So, if it's isolated to that one tumor .. then the option would more than likely be radiation . if it's spread . .and PET scan will determine that .. then .. the option would generally be some chemo . .but she questions whether chemo is an option for him considering his overall health . and said there are some good immunotherapies out there .. and that can all be discussed upon results of PET scan.
JEEZUS!!!!!!!!!!
And in the b'ground of all this .. ongoing. I know the name of the book that will never be written. Nuts, Flakes and Fruitcakes!
Got to hospital and as part of what I routinely do there, .. try to get K on the phone .. K, who gets frantic absent any conversation with her husband daily (my dad . K, . .who doesn't know the full gamut of the goings on .. only knows he has pneumonia . that should tell ya right there, how out of it she is . with her dementia .. who is in the hospital for two weeks w/pneumonia . a more rational person would be asking some questions by now, she doesn't). But .. needless to say she begins to lose her mind and get frantic absent at least speaking to him once a day. We don't want her to have the phone # to his hospital room, she forgets she just talked to him . and so she'd call without ceasing . and so .. we don't give her his phone # (she hasn't asked). I just call and get her on the phone, then hand the phone to my dad to say a few words. That seems to squelch her some.
So attempted to do that when I got there, . .after working out some bill paying.
They didn't have her as a patient anymore. Huh?
So I called the next stop I knew her to be going . the straight rehab place, . .there I got nowhere .. apparently I'm not someone that is to be "in the know" .. per hospital and HIPPA stuff.
So a call to stepsister .. "hey sounds like they moved your mom, do you have her phone # where she is so that I can reach her, and have dad speak to her?".
SHOCK
Stepsister: "She's at home, I'll call you".
Explanation goes like this. She got moved yesterday early evening, to the next stop . .straight rehab place . and there began to have what was .. determined several hours later, in the ER of the very hospital my dad is in .. hours and hours later, . not a heart attack as she thought she was having . but a panic attack .. and .. so .. stepsister .. I guess .. thinking this reasonable .. heeded her mom's demands and took her to her home . her's and dad's home.
To hear stepsister tell it, . .she is frantic/panic attacked .. there was no reasoning with her (no ... sedatives aren't an option . .according to stepsister .. she touts that her mom thinks all drugs are poison .. and won't take a sedative . .those are for people who get carted off in straight jackets............. her mom is stuck
stuck somewhere in the 1950's when all people w/mental health issues were carted off in straight jackets. No convincing her otherwise.
So .. stepsister .. who is a few bricks short of a load herself, sounds like, thought it the best option to heed her mom's panick and take her mom to the house . .and so that's where her mom is . and she at present. And yes, I'm aware of her propensity to stomp off in a huff . and where does that leave K? Not my problem.
I don't know what to say about it all, other than that's not the approach I'd of taken, but she's not my mom, I wasn't there .. I have enough in just with my dad .. so they'll have to figure that out .. outside of my participation.
Stupid.
Her mom was still in need of Rehab/PT. But home she is BY GOD
Let Stepmother and her daughter figure out their day to day situation. I can only imagine what chaos might occur but you and your father at least for the time being have distance to both your benefits.
As my dad put it: "That was stepsister's goal all along, to get her mom home".
Me: "Why? . she needs more rehab . .bring her home why? That means she's gonna be up to bat to care for her, did she think she's more suitable to do that?".
Dad: "She wants to dispense with the whole thing . just wait and watch . won't be long . she'll stomp off and leave it all . .and that's been her goal all along".
There is someone brought in .. some nurse that does "nights" on private duty .. self-pay ... but K is already shoving her out the door in lieu of wanting only her daughter there (knew that would happen .. saw it coming) ..
What they all do about it, . is out of my purview ..
But my GOD. Stupid.
And I could throttle all of them (though to do so with K, who has dementia is kinda beyond idiotic) ..
My dad isn't stupid .. he knows . . in the end .. this falls in his lap .. the only reason it hasn't thus far, is because he is hospitalized and too sick . .and will soon head to Rehab .. rather than home .. and so it "won't" not for the next while, becomes "HIS" problem to deal with. And maybe that's how he could remain much calmer about it all (that and the pain meds he's on) .. than I'd of thought he'd be. He really was .. pretty chill about it all, surprised me.
I just can't believe any "sane" person would think "home" is where I'll take her. She can't get up out of a chair without assistance .. and "home" is where she'll go .. she can't get to the bathroom on her own .. but home is where she wants to go .. BY GOD that's where I'll take her.
Just JEEEEEEZUS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Nuts, Flakes and Fruitcakes.
Does anybody have as many nucking futz people in their hemisphere as I do?
It's doubtful.
So sorry for the 'final word'. An actual sample of the tumor is the gold standard.
No plan of treatment can even be made until dad is feeling better and can at least walk on his own and be a part of his TX.
At his age, any kind of TX is going to be grueling. (sigh)
No, I don't personally know anyone who has more weirdo relatives than you do.
Perhaps, in some weird way, that's what brought you and DH together. Dh and I supposedly had nothing in common, he's like a generation ahead of me, in may ways.
Wrongo--we both had crazy mothers and some "hidden skeletons" of abuse in our pasts. Somehow the wounded find other wounded.
Hate to hear the news about your Dad. I’m glad he is on meds and was chill about K.
Nucking Futz... my nut cup is overflowing. My family, the nuck futz out numbered the good eggs. I only have one sister left. Yep. Nutz.
DHs family is a nucking futz orchard.
And yes, I was expecting SIL to start blowing up DDs phone for private salon services for MIL.
What are the Good Eggs like you in the world to do when the Nutz start bouncing around? Boil yourself? Hide in the fridge?
Another saying kinda like Not my Circus, Not my Monkeys around here is Not my Pasture, Not my Cow, Not my Bullchit. Most certainly a regional saying.
Blackhole, I am familiar with your saying because I myself live in the sticks. Known also as the middle of nowhere. :)
I realize there are much bigger fish to fry in my dad's dx .. and that road will be tough enough going forward, and to get bogged down in the b'chit that goes along with it all, an exercise in futility ... I realize all that. But something that occurred yesterday .. torqued the chit out of me, and even after sleeping on it, still does.
I don't know what it is w/my brother and his wife, BB. I don't get it .. insecurity on her part, .. on his part, .. wanting "acceptance" .. (she's been part of his world now maybe 5 years). As explained before about her, no one really cares for her, except my bio dad and bio mom . .and even both of them "see/realize" her shortcomings .. but are so grateful she has put a roof over his head .. and grounded him in domesticity .. rather than the life aloof he formerly lived, . she could literally crap on their front porch and they'd both say, .. "Well that's just fine". They have a different perspective, .. as the "parents" of this son who was "formerly" a loose cannon as to his life and his pitfalls, for YEARS.
I have an appreciation for how they could see it from the perspective they do. They both realize it, that she's really a PITA .. but .. they also see it that absent her presence in his life .. GOD knows where he'd be. She does have that feather in her cap .. for damn sure. She has grounded him. That's the truth.
Can I not be grateful too for that?
I am .. but .. part of what worked to "ground" him is her controlling ways .. and that's fine . if he wishes to be controlled, it's his life. Where the gap exists is in her "want" or seemingly so, to control others .. I have a big problem w/that . and there have been far too many instances with her, where she would seemingly like to exert "control" over situations that impact me .. and my stance there is pretty much .. "I managed to live all these umpteen years .. and do my life .. absent you controlling what I do and how I do it with impact to my daily life . and I don't plan to start letting that happen now".
I could go on and cite numerous examples of times she's run afoul of me .. and what goes on. I let it go, not worth fighting and causing animosity ... but I distance myself from her, for sure. She and I will never be close friends .. it's just not gonna happen.
I've already described how every time you talk to my brother on the phone, it's "hold on, hang on . let me get BB on the line" .. like I guess the inference there, is to make her part of things. It's annoying. I didn't call to talk to BB .. I called to talk to my brother. But again, rather than make waves .. I hold on, hang on .. while he goes to retrieve BB from wherever she is, puts it on speaker phone and now she chimes in . .. and sometimes the result of that is that you find yourself back tracking thru decades old family history to bring her up to speed when she wishes to assert some opinion that you know won't fly w/these people .. because you've spent decades as a part of this setting and know the players .. she does not. It's annoying. She's kind of opinionated . and doesn't mind sharing her opinions . and .. sometimes those opinions fly in the face of what the reality is . and when it's explained to her (annoying to have to take the time to do so) . it's still met with . in her . not acceptance/realization but further "push" for why one should address it (whatever "it" is) . as thus and so .. and so you find yourself justifying . this or that . when in reality . you don't care all that much what she thinks. BUT BY GOD . .. had to hold on, hang on .. let me go get BB on the phone too.
So, . having said all that.
My preferred method to keep Brother in the loop is texting.
A) He is generally at work, and his job .. I can't get him on the line .. and so texting works best.
B) If I can't reach him and he says .. "I'll call you back" . which would be likely .. the chances I may not be available when he
I may not be available when he calls me back . .thus I prefer texting as a means of imparting important info to him.
<<<This isn't the first time this has come up>>>
So .. yesterday having rec'd the dx .. from Pathology . after I'd left the hospital in a phone call from the docs ...
I did actually think about texting him with "Hey give me a call when you get a chance" .. but I thought better of it, . .because I knew my plate was pretty full . and the likelihood I'd be able to tie myself up with a phone call .. in and about on my travels for the afternoon . not good.
So I opted instead to text him w/the update from Pathology and dx . and the explanation as given to me .. by the docs of the path forward ..
Took a little while, but he answered with some questions. By then, I had lit at home . and so asked of him, "Give me a call at home". He did so. So we talked on the phone . and I answered, (as best I knew) any questions he had and we talked for a while about the whole topic at hand.
Then he said this (not the first time this has come up).
Brother: "So .. before we hang up here, let me ask you a question, .. I thank you so much for keeping me informed of the goings on there, . you do a great job of that .. but . I wanna ask you a question, I notice that you text me, but you don't loop BB into the text, is there a reason for that?".
OH MY GAWD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I answered him as follows: "to be honest with you brother .. anything I impart to you, you can very easily copy/paste and forward to her . it's not that big a deal really .. and .. .no .. I don't slight her on purpose (I do but I didn't say that to him) .. the truth of the matter is (and this is true, it's not a lie) .. the truth of it all .. generally when I have info to impart to you .. I pull up my phone and scroll thru where I last communicated w/you .. and click on it, to fire off more info, .. and generally speaking there will also be threads where I've also texted with stepsister . maybe with DH . .maybe w/one of our daughters . maybe with someone from church .. a whole list of threads of people I routinely communicate with . to be honest with ya .. I just don't take the time to search thru my scroll there of threads as to .. gee now where was that .. that thread where I last talked to the "BOTH" of them . let me find that . it's just not all that important .. I figure when I impart info to you . you can pass it along to your wife".
GAWD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
So infuriates me. SO SO INFURIATES ME.
No, it wouldn't be a problem . I'm adept enough . just create a new one each time, or scroll thru and find that one where I last communicated with the "both" of them .. I can do it . but it's just not that important to me to do it .. and I've kinda got my hands full here .. and .. I think that's really pretty damn assinine of him .. I mean when's the last time I asked that of him .. N.E.V.E.R. ... "gee brother, I see that you send me texts, but you never loop my husband in .. is there a reason for that?". GOOD GOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I have never asked that of him . my husband . has a damn life . .and would find it annoying to be looped in .. anything he needs to know with regard to the situation . I inform him .. that's .. kinda how I figure it should work.
Also . what I didn't say . was that I purposely leave her out . because I just don't care enough about her input .. peppered with opinions that aren't warranted .. and pushback on said opinions .. and from someone who has been so new to the scene she just doesn't know the history of the players in all this .. and so bringing her up to speed as to why this or that doesn't work as any viable option . not with these people . is more energy/time than I care to spend .. so imparting to her any new info . gets met with a whole bunch of opinons and questions I don't care to take the time to speak to . thus I leave her out. Let him deal with that ..
It's still .. still torquing me.
Went last night and had some wings and beer with DH and sounding off on it all, to him . and he too finds it absolutely weird that my brother does that .. but said, "just try to be patient with them . .. they're both just idiots that's all".
It's not worth causing any big rift over it all, and I realize that . thus my dampening much about it in response to him . but it is also maddening.
You wanna say to him, "Look whatever it is with the two of you and insecurities or whatever it is .. figure it out .. it's not my job to keep your wife in the know, particularly when your wife is not someone here on the front at all, managing any of this .. I keep my spouse in the loop .. and seek his input where appropriate, .. I suggest you do the same and climb down off of me about it .. got that?".
Also imparting to him in that same conversation .. we ALL find it supremely annoying this need of his to "hang on, hold on, let me get BB on the phone" .. all of us ..
Preface that with my bio mom and bio dad's tolerance for it all being higher than is mine .. ergo her ability to ground him . and appreciation for same.
So . yesterday visiting with my dad . it was mentioned by him .. to me .. "when you talk to BB . you go ahead and explain to her all the goings on .. I can't deal with her".
Me: "Did you talk to BB?".
Dad: "Yea (exasperated) .. your brother called me last night . and as always BB on the phone too, and asking all kinds of questions and weighing all kinds of different approaches and .. I can't deal with her and all her questions .. she needs to figure some other way to get her questions answered .. she is so textual .. and I just can't tolerate it".
So in talking with my brother yesterday . in our conversation .. he with a somewhat mindset .. tried to go there at least with me .. this whole piece that my dad doesn't wanna talk about it, deal with it .. as to the dx . having pushed aside the 2 docs that came to him to impart his dx .. and asking of them that they talk to his daughter, not him .. that he can't deal with it right now (in fact, one of the doctors that got pushed aside by him .. agrees that he can't .. not right now, too weak .. can't deal with it right now . and not enough known for him to even begin to try to .. so .. let him get stronger .. and I concur with that as a notion for now).
So on that topic . brother trying to push back a bit .. tried to anyway with me ..
More of the "dad can't keep kicking the can down the road" mentality.
At which .. I informed him as follows:
Me: Well do with this what you will, .. but I'm here, daily .. and I see him and his condition and his state . he is sick Brother .. very sick .. very weak .. and I happen to agree with kicking the can down the road til he can get stronger .. as does the doctor that I spoke with .. there's nothing that can be done today or tomorrow any damn way to address it .. there will have to be a PET scan done .. and that's 2 to 3 weeks up the road .. and in that time, . the hope is he can get a little stronger . and so .. it's not pressing that he be informed of this dire news at this point . I agree with that as an approach".
Brother: "yea, well you're there and see him far more than I can .. I'm not there .. .but when I talk to him on the phone . which is almost every day . he seems pretty okay .. for the most part, . and I don't know .. I mean is he lying to me .. he seems like he's getting better and stronger .. I mean that's kinda what gets imparted to me".
Me: "Well .. just put this in your pipe and smoke it Brother .. everytime you call . you have BB on the line with you .. he doesn't know BB that well .. he's probably been in her proximity .. of the number of years she's been on the scene . and handful of times .. and he simply doesn't know her all that well .. he knows you . he knows me . but not her .. but she's always on the phone with you . maybe there's some posturing
Is what she's doing at ALL something like what you atemppted with SIL? Trying to get her to see that MIL needed more help? Yes, BB isn't fetching and propping your dad and K, but she has a different take on your dad and stepmom's situation. You can just say, " hmmm, we could look into that".
The fact that it's never been accepted before ( think, sil's "shes so stubborn"; mil's "I won't hear of that") doesn't mean that a different approach might not be better.
Maybe you might look at whether there is some posturing and white washing going on .. to make nicey nice and make light of it all, since he simply doesn't know her all that well . and he doesn't . but she's always a part of talking to you . on the phone with you . nothing against her . she hasn't done anything wrong . but .. making her a part of every conversation with him may be giving you a skewed vision of his well being .. as he then postures and tires to make light of it all .. just .. keep that in mind and do with it what you will".
Brother: "Hmm .. food for thought there, . okay".
And with that, we finished our conversation
It's kind of unfortunate .. because in the end . obviously she loves my brother very much that she would take him on .. and his world of being upside down and work to domesticate him and it worked ... like a charm.
And in that .. obviously she cares for the people in his world, his family. And I know that. Maybe that is her only motivation . but she comes across as too opinionated for someone who has not been part of the scene for the decades we have . and knows the players and their various idiosyncrasies .. she just doesn't .. and to be touting opinions .. and so forth and when taken the time to be informed .. of why's and how's that doesn't fly . not with these people .. then to pushback on it all .. like . she's someone who has the "fix" if we'd just listen .. it flies in the face of it all and doesn't sit well with anyone ... in this whole picture.
As a result .. she's seen as somewhat of a nuisance, annoyance .. even by bio mom and dad .. but they have an "appreciation" for what she brings to the table that tamps down any consternation really on their parts with her .. not so much with me .. and my perspective.
And then for my brother to ask is there a reason that I don't "loop" her into texts ...
Cut and paste dude . it's not that difficult . talk to your wife .. not my job!
I did the same things as an "in law" . with DH . with his sister, his mom . and they wouldn't listen. I had the "fix" too if they'd just listen.
The difference though .. I've been a part of this family for decades and know the players and their various nuances .. and .. that didn't stop me, I still pushed my agenda . but I was talking from a place of someone who was running their azz off trying to keep a lid on things with this frail ailing LO of theirs .. thus .. I kinda had an idea who is who and why is why .. and so forth.
BB does not have that ground to take a stance.
I totally understand your frustration with the BB phone thing. Incredible that you would be questioned on that!
That uncalled for 3 way or speakerphone stuff is a pet peeve of mine. It results in a lot less communication on my part.
When I call a certain friend she often wants to put me on speaker with her husband. Nothing against her husband but it drives me nuts. I really just don't want to talk then. I think it's very rude, actually.
A problematic SIL in our family did that thing that you describe. I could never talk to my brother without her being included. She was an insecure, controlling and jealous type. She was good for him in many ways, but not so great with the rest of us. It hurt our relationships with him too.
Hang in there. You're doing great. Thoughts and hugs.
Families--can't live with them, can't kill them.
One of the MOST DIFFICULT things about having a large family (6 kids in my nuclear family) is that as we grew up and married, we added more people who were totally different from us. Different ideas, personalities, different ways of doing everything! Now, some of us have bent over backwards to accommodate these 'new people' as we ourselves have married into families and hope they'll accept us despite our being 'us'.
We've had some epic wins and some epic fails.
I used to stress out over remembering b-days for all family,. Dh's and mine. Tried to remember all nieces and nephews and grandparents and great grands--and you know what?? Very few really cared that much.
I think you should simply be grateful for BB taking on a brother who sounds like he needs grounding. We tend to marry people who "fill in the blanks" for us. I have 2 brothers whose wives are barely civil to me---and yet I have done absolutely nothing to them, but remember b-days and special occasions. Tended their kids. Cleaned their homes when they've been ill---yet I am treated like some kind of insect that crawled in the house. SMH
My one brother has to have his wife CC'd on EVERYTHING. She then tells her parents that "everything' and I don't come out looking good. (Her parents are my neighbors and I introduced my brother and his wife to each other.) So if I am in hot water for something I did/didn't do right for mother, I get it from YB and his wife AND her parents.
My other brother is completely and utterly whipped by his wife. whatever she wants, WHATEVER, she gets. They put in a pool a few years ago, I was at their house one day and NOTICED, and she was hemming and hawing about it--evidently it is for 'her family' not 'his'. To this day, not one member of 'his' family has been invited over to swim. This brother will not stand up for ANYTHING. His wife doesn't care one iota about anyone in her hub's family and we all know it.
So who adapts? well, it's always me. Actually, me and my older sis. She is pretty flat lined and doesn't really care about anything. I wish I could get some of that attitude.
My Dh's family? I don't speak to my MIL. I barely speak to my SIL (she's just too, too busy all the time. Truth is, she's a wonderful person, just very scatterbrained). Haven't spoken to DH's brother in years. His wife thinks I am a brainless moron (her words) and so she doesn't give me time of day.
Hard to let all this just roll off your back, but worrying and fussing and be angry/miserable/frustrated sure hasn't worked.
You HAVE to communicate with Brother. Just tell him that you're not comfortable with the group text (oh, my the stories I could tell about inadvertently sending a semi-snarky comment out in what turned out to be a group text....) and tell him he should just pick and choose what he wants to copy to his wife. Then don't talk about it again. You have enough on your plate. This nitpicky stuff will drive you crazy.
Right now your focus is on dad. Period. Helping him. And if that includes babysitting K then, all right. BB can be as involved as she needs to be. If she's capable and willing to do some of the grunt work, let her.
Maybe time for a trip to the therapist to lay this out in a fashion he/she can help you with,. You do not have the 'grace' of many years to work out relationships. And right now, you're all stressed out and it's a high intensity time. Feelings are running hot---don't say/do anything you cannot take back.
I do remember when I was flipping FIL's condo for sale and my BIL kept coming over & criticizing my work and how much I was spending. I finally blew up at him and said "I will walk out of here in a hot minute and YOU can pick up a d@mn paintbrush and help. I'm not making a DIME here". He shut up, but fast. Took a while for that to blow over, but he did apologize. And took a 6% commission on the sale of the condo. I made, um $0.
Stuff like that--
You have no obligation to communicate with miss bossyboots. That’s between your brother and her. If he wants to keep her in the loop, it’s on him to talk to her, show her the text, forward emails, whatever. It’s not your responsibility to make sure she’s in the loop and quite frankly your brother is ridiculous for questioning you. My husband and siblings tend to group-text each other about my FIL and they don’t include the spouses. There’s really no reason to. We have no say in anything and we aren’t involved. If there’s something our spouses want us to know, it’s their job to tell us. If we have questions, it’s on us to ask our spouses! It is not my BIL or my SILs job to tell me what is going on with my FIL. They have their own spouses to communicate with and they have enough on their plates.
i do agree you should be greatful she grounded your brother and filled in his blanks but I also completely understand that.....she is newer to the family and she hasn’t been a big part of it. She hasn’t been around regularly. Your brother had no idea anything was going on with your dad and K so yeah......you have every right to resent bossyboots & her controlling personality having to be involved in everything. Your dad doesn’t need the distraction and the interference and neither do you!
I have no idea whether this notion fits at all, and in any case, now is not the time, obviously, to engage with her bossiness. But down the road, when things are calm, perhaps pushing back at her and her-plus-him, with you openly declaring "enough already with the backseat driving" (plus some further explanation) might help build a better relationship.
I guess I'm just suggesting - when you're not so incredibly burdened the way you are now - to try engaging with her (possibly good) intentions.
Seriously, this is just a thought, so take it for what it's worth.
I have another brother .. and he has been married to his wife "L" for 30 plus years. She and I are close friends, talk frequently. Always have. In fact, I talk to her more than I do the brother she's married to.
Looking at the dynamic of that relationship from the frame of, . "now why does it work in that situation, but it's not working in this one?".
Probably a good deal of it all has to do with the fact, "L" has been a part of my existence for 30 plus years and she knows the various players spoken of .. or has some familiarity with each one . having been a part of my world for so long . and I . know her various players in her world, her bio family/siblings, etc . .having met/been around them numerous times thru the 30 plus years.
BB can't help it she wasn't around the past 30 plus years .. not her fault. I get that. Also of note, BB .. for whatever the dynamics are in her past . .she covets a large family . never had one. Says so openly. I don't know the history of it all with her bio family other than to say she has one brother . and the two rarely see each other, . she never knew her dad . he took off . and her mom has been deceased for a long time. So she's kind of an orphan really, BB is. No attachment to family of her own and the various nuances that go along with the fact that we are all, each one of us, individuals with our own quirks. She hasn't had to learn that I don't suppose in a bio family of her own.
I don't know a thing about what kinda relationship she had with her husband prior to my brother.
But in looking at the why's .. why does it work when talking with "L" who I do talk with frequently .. more so than the brother she's married to in fact .. but I can't even bear BB hardly. Why?
"L" there is give/take to the conversation. For instance, . I might mention "oh man . .the struggles lately with __________________". She might respond with, "oh ya know, when we were dealing with that with my mom, we did ________ and _______ and it seemed to work out".
Again, I know these people of whom she speaks .. having been a part of her world for decades . and she knows the people of whom I speak .. having been a part of my world for decades . or has some rudimentary familiarity w/each . having been around various family functions.
There is give and take, there is humility and a humbleness in "L" not seen in B.
The chicken soup saga being a perfect example. Had "L" brought chicken soup to the hospital . and found the protocol there prohibited that staff would address heating it up for her, .. she'd of been humble enough, "L" would have . that she might've said, "Gee, .. I guess I didn't think that one through real good, screwed up there" . and let it go. BB on the other hand .. rolls her eyes .. acts indignant at the stupidity of hospital staff and their stupid rules .. and so forth. Rubs one the wrong way.
That same mentality . permeates .. interactions with BB. She throws out there, for instance, . "Well stepsister is going to have to get her mom in a home somewhere, that's all there is to it".
You respond with what you know to be the truth of the reality of it all, but are also of the dynamic within that particular sect of folks in all this that you aren't gonna wage that war with them .. because it's not yours to wage . and so you impart to BB .. "oh that's not gonna happen .. no .. I already asked stepsister if that's in the offing .. for her mom and NO .. no it isn't .. they will hire around the clock c'givers to come into the house .. stepsister says that to uproot her mom . and put her in an unfamiliar surrounding would be her mom's undoing .. no . she has no intention of doing anything of the sort ... "
BB: Well, .. what does she think this dementia is going to ultimately look like, round the clock c'givers .. that's gonna be expensive .. they know that right?".
At this point I'm losing
At this point I'm losing patience with BB because now I have to explain to her, .. "Look .. these are very private people . in fact, .. I'm quite sure if they could've kept this hidden in the cover of darkness, I wouldn't know . the only reason I know any of this .. is because my dad had back surgery and .. he chose not to go the route of rehab .. so that he could be at home .. he should've gone to rehab for that back surgery . but he couldn't .. his wife . .and her dementia . she can't be more than arm's length from him without coming undone . .and so ... he felt he needed to be there, at home .. rather than go to rehab .. and so . my going over there to help . brought this dementia piece to light .. a light I'd of been kept in the dark about .. they've always been very private/secretive .. I don't know K's finances .. I know that K and my dad have always operated w/separate finances .. and whatever .. but what kinda $ K has . is not known to me . and it's none of my biz . and I'm not gonna go wage that war with her daughter .. its' not mine to wage".
BB: "Well I just think . ya know . what's stepsister's angle there? I mean .. dementia is not pretty . does she know that .. ??...has she looked into what this is gonna look like on down the road .. what does she think she's going to do . to manage it .. I mean can they afford that .. ??...
Me: "In the end, . it's really between K and my dad what direction all this takes not me, not stepsister . and I haven't been asked for input on the topic . so I stay out of it".
BB: "But you have to concern yourself with the impact of her problems on your dad, that's something that does impact you .. so you should have a say-so in it".
At this point . .I'm ready to blast her ..
This is a conversation that took place, me dragging her into decades of history with all of the various players in all this .. and going over the finite detail . .. that I don't even care to cover with someone who isn't hands on here, . in fact, the best she can do is show up with some chicken soup at the hospital where my dad is being fed 3 meals a day and then get indignant with the fact the staff won't go warm it up.
Yes, BB you have all the answers . you go on with yourself and go fight that war yourself .. I already told you I'm not going to.
Just can't deal w/her, thus I try not to. . And then for brother to ask me why I don't loop her into communications that go on. There's good reason.
Next time she brings up the multiple questions, you might just shrug and tell her, "I don't know. It's a complicated situation, but not up to me," or "I'm not sure. I don't handle all that stuff." It seems the more the situation and the history is explained to her, the more questions she comes up with vs. if you just keep shrugging and saying, "I don't know/not sure" she might run out of things to say after awhile. I've had to do that with overbearing family members too. Could she maybe be put to work when they visit helping do something that would actually help you (rather than her chicken soup idea)?