I've posted before about in-law care-giving. Aged mother in law, lives in same town.
We are at the tail end of a visit from sister in law from several states away. Sister in law has been here for 3 weeks caring for her mother. A much welcome respite.
It had been discussed, prior to her arrival here on the scene, she would be talking it over with her mother, to try and get her mom to come up to her home, for a stay of maybe a few months.
This, in my opinion, is absolutely essential, as I am expecting twin grand-children, due in about 1 month (if they don't come sooner, as is the case a lot of times with multiples pregnancies). The expectant mother also lives locally here, and has a 4 year old daughter. I will be on that front, helping .. as much as is needed. And not on the front with mother in law and care-giving, and have made that as obvious and apparent as I know how to make it. It would be great if mother in law would agree to go to her daughter's home (several states away) for a period of a few months .. and allow me the latitude to put my energies where I want them to be, on my daughter who will have had a c-section .. and my grand-daughter (4 years old) and new twin babies.
Nothing doing. Mother in law has dug in her heels, and will not hear of it, going to stay with her daughter for any period of time.
What are her reasons?
In mother in law's defense ... her daughter ... I don't even know how to describe it. I will say that when her daughter comes here to visit, she all but breathes for her mother and if she could find a way to do that, she'd do that too. She is the most nervous nelly, never sit down - ever ... worry wart, do everything, all the time .. person that I've ever encountered.
A great example, as I was taking her to the airport yesterday for her departure, . I reached into the fridge to grab myself a bottled water and shut the fridge and turned to walk away, as I've done for all of my 50 plus years living on this earth .. and she said to me, "Oh make sure that fridge shut". WTH???? Like I don't know how to shut a fridge? That's just a small, very small slice of what she is ... how she is.
She is so very hyper-vigilant, seeing to every minute details down to it's finest most minuscule point, fine tooth comb, questioning every point along the way, "should we do thus and so, but maybe if we do thus and so, then such and such will happen, maybe we should do it thus and so .. but then so and so might happen, maybe we shouldn't do thus and so, but do "x" "y" and "z" instead, but if we don't do it that way then ..........", on and on and on and on it goes. And usually in hyper warp speed, as to every single friggin thing.
If her mother moans .. "what's wrong mother?, why did you moan, are you alright?".
Mother: "Yes, I'm fine, I was just sighing out loud".
Sister: "Why did you sigh? Are you hurting, are you sure you're alright, why are you sighing what's the matter?"
Mother: "For God's sake __________________, I was just sighing, .. calm down, I'm fine".
Sister: "Are you sure, .. because if something is wrong you need to tell me".
Mother: "Everything is fine, I'm fine".
Sister: "Are you sure, we did a lot yesterday, did we do too much, maybe we shouldn't of gone to two doctors in one day .. was that too much for you, are you too tired now, maybe we need to move those other doctor appointments so we won't have two in one day, is that too much for you, for one day .. is that why you were sighing .. what's wrong, are you sure you're alright".
Hopefully that kinda gives a little bit of a snapshot of what goes on when sister is in the ring directing things.
So in mother in law's defense.. I do get it, why she wouldn't be chomping at the bit to go to her daughter's home.
BUT ....
The only experience she has with her daughter, in the last years as mother in law has aged and been unable to go anywhere much, has been the daughter coming here, periodically, for periods of about 3 weeks at a stretch. When her daughter comes here, she moves heaven and earth for her mother and then some, and doesn't sit down, doesn't stop .. the WHOLE ENTIRE TIME.
Is there a possibility maybe (as I said to mother in law, when she expressed that isn't happening - talking to me - her going to her daughters .. ever) .. could it be possible that maybe if you would go to where she lives .. she'd be more busy managing her own life in that setting than your's and she would get out of your backside .. and not be as hyper-drive-vigilant as you experience in her, when she's here, could that be possible.
The daughter is retired, lives several states away. Does come here, generally, every few months .. and stays for a period of about 3 weeks at a stretch. I wish I could make a list of everything the daughter did when here this last time, but it would take up the whole character allotment:
That will tell if cancer is the one lone lung mass, which is treated one way.
Or has it spread, in which case there is another as approach (or options).
Even if made aware today.
There cant be any reliable approach planned. The bigger picture has yet to be determined.
That bigger picture can begin coming in focus once he is stronger and can withstand inpatient rehab and then better be able to go for PET scan.
Chest tube removed today. Finally. Waiting to talk to doc. I think, at this point, chest tube removed, he'll be observed a bit to make sure lung stays stable and can then be discharged to inpatient rehab stay.
Maybe things are looking up a bit.
Is it possible that your brother and BB are getting the whole he’s upbeat, he’s in good spirits act from your Dad is because that’s the what your Dad wants them to believe?
Is it possible your Dad doesn’t want your brother and BB around? Besides the fact your Dad feels physically awful he would then have to emotionally pull it together and pull off the whole I’m upbeat and in good spirits. It’s a little much to expect from the old guy. Imo
I am guessing a visit from your bro and BB would include questions about his diagnosis, treatment, and who knows what else BB would have to offer.
I get that if your bro and BB visited more often it would take some pressure off you, but would their visits wear your Dad out and put more pressure on your Dad?
I haven't heard them on the phone talking to one another, . but I know that my dad (he has said as much) .. finds it extremely annoying that when talking to my brother on the phone, . .BB has to be right there, on speaker also .. and weighing in with 40 questions. Questions he doesn't have answers to, nor the inclination to entertain at this point (no, none of them having to do with a cancer dx or thereof . she knows not to go there, on that ground, not right now .. I suspect she doesn't agree with that as any approach, but .. she doesn't go there questioning on that topic, but 30 others yes . she does). My dad finds it extremely annoying dealing w/her and the 40 questions she peppers out to him.
I know this much, he's said as much.
Is he posturing in an effort to keep them at bay and not have that come around much. Perhaps .. is it because he's alpha-male .. as he'd probably term it, and not wanting to be seen as mealy mouth ..poor woe with me, I'm so sick . look how strong I am .. probably some of it too. Is he posturing because . he doesn't know BB all that well ............... and GOD KNOWS she's gonna be on the phone if Brother is .. he'll make damn sure of it. Perhaps.
My point of contention is this.
It would be splendid if my brother alone would decide to take a day .. .maybe a whole day .. maybe even more, . once in a while . and spend it this way .. quantity of time spent in service to dad and his advocate/needs, on site. And absent BB with him ..
Okay . not gonna do that .. because his world and prying lose from same, doesn't allow for that (or rather, I'd term it, he's too self important . and doesn't WANT to do it) ... Fine, don't do it.
BUT FOR ALL THE SAKE OF ALL THAT IS HOLY ....................................
D.O. N.O.T. Q.U.E.S.T.I.O.N the approaches being taken on this end, by those that are here on site ... and living it daily. DO NOT!!!!!!!!!!!
I have already shared with my brother more than once, at his oh so cheerful, "Dad sounds great, upbeat" .. I have shared with him more than once, that is NOT what is being experienced here, hands on .. not even an iota of that. I've shared that with him.
What part of that is he not hearing?
I've shared with my brother that as to the cancer dx .. .he is (has been) far too sick to deal with it, and in the end, for now, it's pointless to throw that out there and expect anything can be processed/dealt with by my dad on that topic .. and the oncologist agrees with that as an approach .. for now. Let him get stronger.
That has been shared with him. Yet he keeps coming back with the "dad can't keep sticking his head in the sand and not dealing with this".
What part of the above is he not hearing . that the approach at this point is to allow him time to gain more strength and get his footing . and it can indeed be kicked down the road a little longer. What part of that is he not hearing?
My contention in it all, . where's your damn humility to defer to those living it .. those right here on the scene. So you don't agree with that as an approach . you don't have to agree .. disagree all day long, but keep it to yourself, as the person humble enough (should be anyway) to realize . you aren't here .. you come .. for a mere 2 hours, if that and are off and back to your life .. Realize that those that are here day in and out with it all, probably have a better read on what is truly the accurate picture and defer to that, and leave it alone. Stop running that up my flagpole.
As to my dad, .. .yes I think to have to have BB there and her 40 questions day in and out, wouldn't be good for him . in fact, he has about zero patience (it's embarrassing) with staff . he'd likely lose it with her, quickly.
As much as it would be nice if I had a brother who realizes that his sister (me) is over burdened with all this and he's gonna make it happen .. come here say every Tuesday (pick a day, any .... I don't care) . and spend the day, the entire day .. and look after dad and act as advocate for him, as I've done ..
That would be splendid . .and even better if he had any notion/realization that he doesn't need to bring annoying BB along . as his security blanket . and her 40 questions.
That's not going to happen .. obviously .. .he doesn't care enough or it would. Simply put.
So be it.
But then don't go 2nd guessing the goings on here, on this end, absent your participation in being part of the solution and not the problem. That simple.
You can't be here to be of any help to it all, . then back the h377 up and don't be part of the problem . some humility!
On the good news front . .the hole in the lung has closed and the chest tube pulled and all is stable, will be verified again tomorrow AM by chest xray . and then discharged to rehab tomorrow. HOORAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Now a whole other set of whatever begins. But is much needed. He can now work to begin to get stronger.
And on another note, . .just to note it .. my dad mentioned today . here were his remarks: "I know that we have some serious issues to work through .. I don't even know what's really the dx there . .and I don't want to know .. not right now .. but I do know that is on the radar and has to be worked through".
My response: "Tell ya what dad . sounds like they'll be bouncing you outta here tomorrow to a Rehab site . let's let you get settled there, . that's gonna be quite the upheaval . as to the transport and getting you settled there and learning the ropes .. let's let that take place, and you get into the routine there . and then we will visit the issue at hand and talk about the path forward, does that sound okay?".
He liked that.
So, all that, circling back to, my dad isn't an idiot . .he is a smart man .. always has been. He knows .......... he "KNOWS IT" there are some serious issues . and .. is prepared to face it, .. and process what needs to happen .. and knows he has to do so .. but forcing something down his throat . as my brother might would have it done .. is not the thing to do . and I fervently stand on that stance .. .and he can go fly a kite for all I care. He's not here.
And on that note, I have sent a text to my brother requesting that he "call" me on his drive home today from work, . and we can discuss these important disagreements . and then I will also update him as to today's events.
Here's hoping a rational/sane conversation can transpire . and I can put that to rest.
and that he chooses to do as I've asked, call me on his drive home, not AFTER he's home and BB is there to weigh in .. as far as I'm concerned, .. I am so done answering to her. Anyone who would say to the person living this . that they did that last week, came up after his work . and it made for too long a day for him . say that to the person doing this every day . she's socially damn tone deaf and I'm done dealing with her, period. Any info she gets .. as far as I'm concerned, right/wrong or otherwise . can be from her husband . and that's all I care to deal with as far as her
Can't say it was real productive. I would've liked to have walked away with him maybe saying something akin to "Gee, yea I see how you are seeing things that I'm pushing an agenda you don't agree with . won't do that anymore".
Not at all what the feedback was. Him trying to tell me he isn't "pushing" any agenda . he is merely thinking out loud . is all. Me telling him to think quietly . .and/or share it with someone else, . stop it . just stop it as to this whole "dad can't keep kicking the can down the road, just stop it . .spend some time here, some quantifiable time here and see/visit/observe how sick dad has been . then you can talk, outside of that . just stop it .. ".
Him saying, "I can't help it your perception is that I'm pushing an agenda . I'm not that's your perception . .I can't help how you perceive something".
Me then answering .. "have we not talked about the reasons for this approach numerous times brother . we've talked about it . ad nauseum and the reasons why it's being approached this way . and to continue doing so is redundant . and I don't have the time or energy to keep repeating/justifying as to what's going on here . you don't agree with it, . good/fine . don't have to, but keep your opinions out of my hemisphere unless you are here on site living it as I am".
Wish I could say that he walked away with a more keen understanding of my stance. I don't think so. And no, there was no kumbaya moment of apology or anything else. It's my problem apparently . that I perceive his words . that he is pushing an agenda . not his want . he was merely thinking out loud and I'm perceiving it wrong. Whatever.
And no, I didn't even mention his dumbazz wife and her remarks . she wasn't on the phone . (that I know of, who knows with him and his need for his wife as a security blanket in every conversation) .. but to point out to him remarks she has made that have so incensed me, . and him to say to me .. what he probably would've said, "Well I can't speak for her" . I just didn't go there.
I left it only with what my problems are in dealing with HIM . HIM ALONE.
So now I've made my point clear to him . that one comes up again . him "thinking out loud" that dad can't keep kicking the can down the road, it will get ignored . entirely and not even spoken to.
Brother: "Dorker, I try to help, I ask if there's anything I can do .. I offer to help . and dad always defers to you ... I'm standing right there .. you were too, . and a doctor talking to him about something and he points at you .. and tells the doctor, "talk to my daughter" standing right there .. and points at you ... I'm standing right there, . but he defers to you. I hear you say Dorker, that you're running by dad's house to pick up some of his bills, to cart to him at the hospital to help get them paid .. and I offer to that for him . and he says "no, Dorker is taking care of it". I OFFER TO HELP . but he always defers to you".
Seems to be some contention on my brother's part .. (power pull/struggle) .. I dunno.
My take on that, and I shared that with my brother .. it's not that I am some uber-responsible, all knowing omniscient take charge and capable being. It's more a function .. I am there, on site, in view, present . .and a need comes up . it gets laid in my lap . you aren't. You aren't there, .. for instance, one of the things that came up brother .. I'd been there to visit him . he was worried sick, said he'd laid awake all night long . worried his power was gonna be shut off, that he knew, he just knew that power bill had to have been delivered by now . and I assured him .. I was just there 3 days ago, that power bill was not there .. I'll be going again in a day or two .. but they don't shut your power off inside of 5 days of receiving the bill dad .. it takes longer than that. But .. he'd been laying awake all night, obsessing that the power bill was there . .and nobody had paid it. Thus, I was there .. I got that chore to see to. If it had been you .. you there present . he'd of probably shared that worry with you, for you to resolve it. It's not that I'm the all knowing, all capable .. let's dump it all on Dorker cuz GOD KNOWS brother sure is an irresponsible idiot (he was at one time, and for most of his life, but not so anymore of him).
As I asked of my brother on the above: "So some of this, your absence here, is at the feet of being *offended* that dad defers to me, rather than you?, is that it?".
His answer, a kind of indignant tone: "Dorker .. I was trying to track down that oncologist when I was thinking we should've had results from pathology .. I was down here trying to track down that oncologist to get a fire lit under that. I reached her finally, ... and she said to me, "oh those results were shared with your sister". What's the need for me to be there? Everything is deferred to you".
And I again reiterated to him: "I'm there, I'm a visible presence .. they see me there, every day . they know who I am .. I am talking to them as they come and go .. if you were there, they'd know who you are, and be talking to you .. it's just that simple".
I think there is "some" on his part, .. resentment maybe .. (out of place, IMO) .. that this all gets shoved to my side of the table .. and not his.
I think it's a bunch of hooey on his part .. and a lame excuse to be absent here. But that's his wagon to pull, not mine. If he wanted to be more a part of the scene here, he certainly could be. He doesn't work Saturdays and Sundays . there is no reason at all, he couldn't be a more visible presence on those days, if he cared to be. He only lives 1 1/2 hours away .. as I told him, "You don't live in Idaho . you live 1 1/2 hours away . .no that far".
So he's all important at his work, .. and the work place will fall to shambles, absent his presence there. Then what's the problem with being here on site, longer than the 90 minutes or so you spend here .. anytime you come. Come here on a Saturday or Sunday and spend the entire day and into the evening as I've done. Don't wanna do that, don't look at me as the problem.
And yes, .. I will going forward, continue to loop him in (via text) as fit .. and won't be doing so with his wife . he can share what he needs to with her, or not . not up to me.
As I shared with him this morning via text. I am routinely .. at least the last few weeks that dad has been down for the count .. in touch with my dad's brother in Alabama . informing the brother of the goings on here. In part of our conversation . my dad's brother . has been caregiver (and I'm vaguely aware of that from the last few years, but not front and center on any radar for me) for his wife who has been battling cancer for a few years. He apprising me, now that dad has been down for the count, of his plight there with his wife. He texted me this morning . dad's brother . that his wife passed away at 2:40 AM .. and so I did let my brother know that.
I'm also waiting for the next shoe to drop on that, and him try to light me up (he better not) . .that once again, . .as he put it before . .thinking he's not being informed and kept in the loop and barking up my tree about it .. as to dad and their plight . a few weeks back. I'm almost waiting for it, that he'll now blast me . that I haven't "kept him in the loop as to dad's brother and the wife's plight" . .that he didn't know, as he put it before, "What am I the red headed stepchild down here, nobody tells me anything . why don't I know any of this".
I'm almost waiting for it .. it's like you're damned if you do, damned if you don't.
So I may get blasted next from my brother . that he wasn't kept in the loop and informed as to dad's brother's wife and that whole saga. He better not go there with me.
He's just as capable of reaching out to these folks and staying "in the loop" as I am .. and he will be told that.
I'll continue to inform him . of the goings on .. because that's the thing to do . to do otherwise would be spiteful and just ugly. I won't be a party to that, I'll keep informing him . and what he chooses to participate in . is up to him.
Please try to rein in your anger a bit. You and brother are in this for the long haul with dad. Don't burn bridges now.
For most of us who work full time, taking a day off isn't difficult because we perceive ourselves as important. It's because it causes stress and strain to colleagues, causes our work to pile up and generally messes up the balance. Don't ask your brother to show up on a weekday, unless there is an appointment that dad needs carting to.
Maybe brother can take over putting dad's bills on auto pay?
Maybe he can take the day when dad is transferred to rehab?
Set up a Caring Bridge account where you can share medical info etc. with family members so you don't have to make multiple phone calls.
Dorker, your only experience with caregiving has been a contentious one, with MIL. Your brother sounds pretty reasonable. Dial back the anger. Deep breath.
As I've read here on this message board countless times . when these things all begin to take place with a LO . more often that not . there are siblings that are absent .. yet those same siblings are the ones that want to criticize and cause uproar ..
Seems pretty common unfortunately. So my challenge is to realize that in my own situation and find the place of (which I'm doing) . so be it. It is what it is.
Not as angry as I was the other day. But also vowing to keep communication with brother open . as that's the thing to do . and leave it at that . and leave all the drama out of it.
Interesting (but I'm not holding my breath) as the parting shot as brother and I talked on the phone, his words: "I'm gonna be looking at my schedule to see what time I can free up to come that way a little more frequently".
I didn't even respond .. I'll believe it when I see it .. and if not . that's gonna have to be okay too.
What I do get angry with is .. don't 2nd guess what's going on here .. just don't .. wanna be more a part of it all, .. make it happen .. be a part of it all, and see/visible presence here, . and maybe have some clarity in that . as to the why's and how's of what's going on. Absent any ability/willingness to do that, defer to those in the fire living it.
Second guessing is "I would have done this, that; I would have demanded the doctor..... You should have..... You did that wrong sis, here's what you're supposed to do".
If your sibling is merely asking......what did the doctor say about that? When do you suppose we can get some clarity on what the treatment options are? Why is this all taking so long?
Those are not second guessing. Those are the questions of a caring person who is not in the front line and is looking for clarifying information.
My very first post here, back when my demented MIL was acting out and my idiotic BIL was doing all the wrong things....My first post here was to ask, wasn't I correct in what I thought the approach should be to this issue.
I got a glass of cold water thrown at me by multiple posters...."If you're not doing the caregiving, you're not entitled to an opinion; ask polite questions, but the folks who are hands on don't need your interference".
So, Iearned the difference between saying "you should this, you should that" and asking if there was a discrete task I could perform, or just asking for brief updates for DH.
Doesn't sound to me like your bother is trying to direct (as much) just that he wants to be in the loop, at least in part because his BB wife sounds a lot like me :}
If you can't listen to me--do listen to Barb who is much kinder in saying pretty much exactly what I've been saying.
You're stressed out of your mind and anger will not help nor solve anything.
{{Hugs}}
Liz
Barb is right, let go of the anger. It’s obvious that you are stressed and rightly so. The hostility and anger are very evident in your posts on AC. Your Brother and SIL deserve to be updated and what is the harm in BB being included in the text. When you were dealing with SIL/MIL you found fault with her communication because she texted, you wanted phone calls. Now with your brother and BB you don’t want phone calls. Your brother and his wife want to be updated on your dad’s condition. No matter the family or situation every person involved has different expectations and different ways of communicating. You can’t make them change how they do things.
Brother cares so much he wants to be closely involved in the information loop and the decision-making process.
But not so much that he thinks: "hm, perhaps this would be a good time to take some family leave and get my ass down there."
And then he has the nerve to voice an opinion.
And thinks BB is an adequate deputy.
I feel every twanged nerve.
But I agree with everyone, if from a slightly different angle. What I'd like you to do is be really, really clear what you are angry about. And it isn't that brother is asking unreasonable questions (he isn't). It's that he's not there.
Mind you, I'll tell you what. If he DID take a week's leave and infest your Dad's bedside, you might be sorry what you wished for.
Besides my radio silence position regarding discussing my parents care with my SIL’s - I had one rule that I expected my brothers to respect:
If you don’t help - you don’t get to criticize.
My oldest brother got it. My other brother did not. He seemed to think that a once a month, hour long visit with the folks - followed by a phone call to me, telling what I needed to be doing better, different - was helping. It was not.
I suppose your brother thinks that he’s being helpful. Unfortunately, some people need guidance as to what “helpful” is - at least what is helpful to YOU.
Be specific with your brother. Give him a job. And, as with children use the “would you like to brush your teeth now or after story time?” Not “Would you like to brush your teeth?”
Perhaps text: “I need a day to work at home. What day next week can you come spend the day with dad?”
Maybe it will work. Maybe it won’t. But it’s worth a try.
Really, it’s your brother’s job to keep her in the loop. I do think she has a right to know some things as all of this affects her husband some of which in turn affects her too but as a daughter-in-law with a FIL having a health crisis-I can honestly say that there’s nothing wrong with texting/calling your brother and keeping her out of it. Neither she-or I-need to know all the details. We don’t need every status update. The only thing beneficial to us is knowing the big important details (official diagnosis, if he’s got days left to live, that sort of thing) and when our spouses will focusing their attention on their dad. But at the end of the day, It’s our spouses responsibility to keep us informed of that. Just my 2 cents on that.
I am wishing you a good sleep tonight and not too many calls to make.
He had mentioned more than once, .. his assertion that dad can't keep sticking his head in the sand, and each time, I'd answer as to the reason(s) why that is the approach for now.
Finally after the 4th time .. I blew my stack.
It's no longer an intelligent question, from a place of concern, . when it keeps getting asked . and mention .. and has been answered.
That's where I join camps with those who are of the mindset .. "you aren't here . you don't get to criticize".
And .. no .. I'm not looping BB in for the very reason .. she asks too many questions born out of a place of not knowing the various nuances of the players in all this . and I don't have the energy (and I don't like her enough to do it) to bring her up to speed .. her husband can bring her up to speed . or not . up to them.
I did the very same thing(s) with regard to MIL .. in asserting my opinions and wants . and so forth .. but there's an enormous difference. I WAS HANDS ON, in the trenches . daily FOR YEARS . in her care. BB has not been (nor would my dad want her "all in" ) .. nor has my brother been knee deep in any of it. Thus .. you don't get to ask the same questions over and over with a "slant" that gets perceived that you don't approve ... of the approach being taken. I join camps with those who feel that way .. at that point.
Yes, . ask me what did the doctor say about ____________. Yes, ask me what was the result of so and so procedure .. yes, ask me about .. what will they do if _______ and ________ are the results. Absolutely. I don't mind that at all, I'd want to know too if I were him.
My dad is now at a Rehab site . and comfortable? I dunno ..
I'm hoping it will prove to be a little more restful a setting than is a hospital. At least a night's sleep without folks coming and going and poking and prodding thru the night.
Ugh, the frustrations. Why does everything take so long? He knew as of about 6 AM he'd be discharged. Didn't leave there til 2:30 PM. Why? Who knows.
Arrive at rehab site . .and the room is pristine and clean . nut no pillows on the bed. Simple enough request, it seems. Nope .. didn't seem to be able to dig up pillows .. not in what I would consider a timely way. No bedside commode, .. "oh that will have to be assessed by PT". Me: When will PT see him to see if that's an option". Answer: "I don't know, PT decides those things and if they say that's what he needs, then one will be provided". SIGH. No pitcher and cup of water, .. even offered . after repeatedly requesting one, .. I'll go get one . no . they'll bring it. They never did and I was there for 3 hours ..
Why does everything grind along so slowly?
It is what it is, I suppose.
I did have to laugh though. His dinner tray brought to him, I'd stepped out a minute, came back in to find the aide cutting up his chicken for him. WHA???!!!!
Me: "Wow .. you don't have to do that, .. his hands work just fine . you're really going to spoil him . dad . that won't happen at home . don't get used to it".
So now I will work to find a different equilibrium for me . in it all, .. and not be as . on site . not as much . he has work to do.
EB (Estranged brother to DH and SIL) . he has two grown sons ..
In younger years . .when all the kids were young . EB didn't come around a whole lot even then, but when he did . kids were in tow .. (he as a SAHD) .. and so the kids would come and they'd play with their cousins . my kids, SIL's kids, etc etc.
They didn't live local so we didn't see them all that much.
Fast forward to EB's kids and adulthood ..
I think we've seen them, since they were adults . maybe 2 or 3 x's at most .. they are both in their 30's ..
They haven't stayed in contact with anyone ..
Well, .. just kinda interesting . that one of those sons .. reached out to DD via FB messenger . and just a chit chat and hey how are ya . .that kinda thing. I guess in that conversation it was imparted to that specific son . that the g'ma (MIL) is now in a nursing home . .and some of the gritty details on how things took that path.
This then brought about in that specific son of EB . grave concern and . maybe some remorse . for being out of the loop mostly . for the last umpteen years . and he vowed he'd let his older brother know also (also a son of EB) .. and so next thing ya know, both are vowing . a trip to FL . to visit MIL.
MIL hasn't seen either one of them in umpteen years . or heard from them even.
Caused quite the hiccup around here, to even think they'd resurface after all these years (and yes it's well known that MIL has no $ . so they wouldn't be coming around looking to get grubby hands on $ .. there isn't any . and everyone knows that . and has known that). Just quite the hiccup .. to think they'd resurface at this point. And some pondering as to how MIL would feel . about a visit by them ..
SIL's suggestion .. knowing that DD was going to visit MIL . she asked of DD . run it by MIL . and if she wants them to come, fine by us . if not . that's fine too, .. she has so little control over anything in her life anymore (referring to MIL) let her have this little slice of control . if she wants to see them . fine . if not, that's fine too.
MIL, when approached by DD . on the topic above. Hands down, has zero interest in seeing either of EB's son's. No interest. DD did pass word along to her two cousins . sons of EB ......... don't know how she put it, but she headed off any visit by them, with any intention of visiting their granny they haven't seen or talked to in a dozen years or more .. she let them know that wouldn't really be an option . (don't know how she put it, but she said she let them down gently).
It's been kinda of interesting . in the respect ... I agree with MIL's thinking.
MIL's thinking .. .I don't have the energy at this point to let them come here to assuage their guilt . and remorse for being absent all these years. I have a small circle of those who have been there for me, and still are . and I want to keep it that way.
I agree w/MIL. I see her POV.
DH does not.
DH's take on it: "That's not good, that's gonna hurt their feelings . they just were busy living their lives .. they hear that their grandmother is now in a nursing home . and so now it brings it into focus for them that their granny may not be around much longer and they wanna come see her, and her deny them that, I don't agree . and ya know . that's just gonna cement their dad's take on mom . he thinks mom is a B word .. and this . her denying his son's a visit here, will just further cement his belief about mom".
Just think it's interesting how there can be such polarizing views on it all. I agree with MIL. Kinda like the long lost relative that shows up at the funeral . oh so upset . "but where were you when she was alive and would've enjoyed your presence, . don't bother".
I just can't really believe that MIL is so monstrous as to want her estranged son's children to continue to be estranged from her, as well. And basically estranged from the whole rest of the family. Is it really a good thing to keep this feud going into the next generation? Is it Christian? (Sorry, had to go there!)
Unless I missed something, it seems that all these 30-something guys are guilty of is being the offspring of EB. And not thinking enough about their older, faraway relatives when they were younger. I'm afraid I've been guilty of the latter myself. I'm so glad grace was extended to me to make what amends I could when I realized my mistake.
What might be worth considering is inviting the young men to your home to get to know their uncle, if you and he and they would like it. You don't have to let the opportunity go by altogether; but I also wouldn't see it as exciting stimulation for MIL, necessarily, with something wrong with her if she's not interested. She's old and tired, and she doesn't know these people. Let her be.
I would be irritated with the negative assumptions, though, if I were DD. Assuaging guilt, feeling remorse - bollocks! She's their grandmother, they're mildly interested in her, they'd like to see her, it's generally considered a virtuous act, taking the trouble to spend time with your elders. Why would it have to be some hugely significant emotional catharsis?
There does seem to be a terrible underlying bitterness in the background, I'm eaten up with curiosity to know what happened! - but what are the chances of anyone's ever getting to the bottom of it? Not Good.
Sounds like DD did offer, . .something akin to, 'but we'd all love to spend some time with you guys if you wanna come hang out with the rest of us".
She says they haven't answered, either of them, not yet.
I did find it kinda curious . and just a little like side show to the saga of Nuts, Flakes and Fruitcakes that is this whole clan that surrounds me.
The sons .. I don't think they've taken any approach of .. *well dad has no use for the ole batt .. we won't either". I don't think that's their take on it all.
In fact, .. several years back . the oldest son of EB . happened to be in FL . to attend a wedding and so .. made arrangements that part of that time, he'd come this way to visit his g'ma, and did so. Even that was interesting . from the respect, .. at that time (they are so out of touch, they have no *feel* at all, for the reality on the ground here of what is MIL and her level of functionality). Eldest son of EB .. put word out that he wanted to pop in for a surprise visit to his g'ma and take her out to dinner .. no word, just "appear" at her door .. what a surprise that would be .. and oh won't she be so happy to see him.
At that time, he had to be informed and brought up to speed that . no . it won't be a "pleasant" surprise. First off, . you can't just pop in on an elderly/frail, on a walker, .. lack of time management . old woman. She .. first and foremost, doesn't answer her door if she doesn't know who is there. That was routine for her. She also, .. takes F.O.R.E.V.E.R to get ready to go somewhere .. and so popping in on her and any expectation at all, that she would .. 1) answer the door, but also ... 2) have any ability to ready herself for *oh isn't this so exciting* .. it wouldn't go that way. She'd take forever to even get ready . and further, .. she has good days . but she also has a lot of bad days .. and so any ability to know/predict whether you're arrival here on the scene meets here having a good day and ability to go out and about .. not possible.
I think he was kinda set back by that.
The last time he'd seen her, had been years prior . and her not at all in that shape.
And no, it wasn't a matter that either of EB's sons .. maybe not on site here visiting, but at least called her .. stayed in touch via phone. They didn't do that either. So would really have no way of knowing the reality on the ground here.
He did come . and spent some time visiting with MIL. He vowed, . to MIL . at that time, that he's sorry he's been so absent .. (just living his life, doing his thing .. as a lot of us do) .. but that he was going to do a better job of staying in touch . and coming around. He didn't. As a lot of us do.
His younger brother .... lives in CA . and is kinda .. or the last we knew of him . he doesn't come around, neither of them do . so who knows what is the makeup of either of them present day. But we've always known him to be kinda kooky and irresponsible.
The last communication MIL had with that particular son . he called her, .. a few years back . at 2 AM.
And no, she isn't a spry . .jump to it sort (I wouldn't be either) .. that receives a 2 AM phone call and find in that .. oh well what a joy, let's chit chat and catch up.
No, it threw her off her axis .. in large measure, to have rec'd a phone call at that hour. I don't know what made him think .. (he's Pacific Time, we're Eastern Time .. 3 hour lag) .. it would've been 11 at night for him . and even that would've been too late to be calling any frail old woman . but 2 AM .. what was he thinking.
He'd put in a call to her to announce that he was planning to spend xmas with her, at her house. It so knocked her off her axis to have rec'd that call, she begged off that as any eventuality and told him that wouldn't be good. And so . he went elsewhere for xmas . and he also hasn't
He also hasn't called anymore since then, at all.
In each of their cases I don't think, at all, that they have been of any mindset, . .well my dad considers his mom an ole "b" ... we'll do the same. I don't think that's it at all, with either of them. But I do think, it's been a matter that like most of us . out of sight, out of mind . and I'm busy living my life . and gee . I should call her .. and it just never happens . and before ya know it, years have gone by .. that you've not reached out and talked to her, .. (or any of us for that matter). It happens.
I do kinda see MIL's angle in it all. She's old and tired . and maybe sees it that they want to assuage any guilt . remorse .. for having been so absent .. or her perception anyway . and she's too old and tired to be anyone's vessel for alleviating their own bad feelings. I get it. I don't know that I'd feel differently than she does, in fact.
I didn't weigh in with any opinion to any of them. I did find it very interesting though that they'd surface .. where, before now .. they've been .. so absent, not even phone calls, . not to her, not to any of us. And as we know their dad . hasn't talked to any of us in 10 years.
Maybe they will, in the end, .. decide to write a letter, or call . or maybe just come here to visit the rest of us . who knows. Maybe not too. Whatever works.
It all caused quite the little blurb on the radar screen.
The knee jerk reaction .. even from DD who was the one in contact with one of EB's sons .. even her . she said . her knee jerk reaction was to deny them that, but she thought better of it ... feeling . "they're her grandsons . .. so they never come around . so what . if they want to now, who am I to dispense with that as any notion . sure . .. come on". That was her answer to their proposal to come here.
She then put it out there, to me . and I didn't weigh in . only found it interesting and said as much. She told her dad (DH) and he thought it a splendid idea . haven't seen them in a long long time. She put it out there to her aunt (SIL) ..and her thoughts were, "just run it past MIL .. ask her if she'd like to see them . she has so little control of anything in her life . let her at least have a sayso in what she'd like . if she wants to see them, great . if not that's fine too".
DH now weighing in . on his mother's refusal to participate in same . that he thinks it's wrong wrong wrong of her to do that . and will . in the end .. cement EB's .. notion that their mom is just an old "B". For her to refuse his sons to come visit . will cement that in him ... if there was ever any hope at all, that EB might have a sliver of any notion that his mom is someone he should reach out to . this will cement it .. that she's just an ole "B".
My only response to DH .. "I don't think your brother gives one whit about any of us anymore, either way . and no ... I don't think there's as much of a sliver of hope that he somehow wishes he could reach out .. I think . for him . this is all ancient history here . .and people he used to know . and whether or not MIL denies his grown, long since, out on their own sons a visit . is immaterial to him either way.
Maybe it was all a bit interesting to me, as a side show to the saga of my dad's plight and all those troubles . to have had a little interesting blurb to pop up in the MIL saga . and better yet . wasn't at all in my lap to sort through.
Maybe the grandsons, in seeing how the rift between EB and MIL has played out, want to get to know family that they feel they've missed out on getting to know. And being in their 30s it sounds like they may be a little more mature now than in years' past. I know when I was in my 20s, the importance of time didn't really register with me either until I lost my grandpa. You tend to think you're invincible and that the older folks will be around forever.
Only four types of calls get made at 2am:
Disaster has struck - someone, something, somewhere.
Drunk dialing.
Booty calls.
Old folks with dementia thinking it’s 2pm instead of it really being 2am.
I suspect drunk dialing on grandsons behalf. Or I guess there is a fifth type - being a complete inconsiderate moron.
Dorker - Busy as you are, keep regular appointments with your therapist.
First and foremost, you need (objective) support and reinforcement with your father’s situation. Let him/her guide you to the best way to compartmentalize the emotions that Bro & BB stir up in you. Those 2 get your head spinning so much, they consume more of your brain space than your father does.
Your therapist can help you reset your mental hierarchy. He/she can also steer you toward self-talk that is more productive and soothing than your current loop of “them-them-them.”
At the same time, your therapist can help you keep boundaries firm w/DH’s family sagas.
Your success with removing yourself from Planet MIL is admirable. But. MIL’s flying monkeys make sure you always know every gory detail.
While it’s completely appropriate for your husband and adult daughters to share their trials and concerns with you, the Planet MIL sagas are “trigger talk” for you, Dorker.
Keeping yourself removed from Planet MIL requires constant mental work. Those roots run deep! On a good day, no biggie. But now you have your father’s journey chipping away at your reserves.
For the past XX years, your family of origin did not take a lot out of you. That was your default setting. DH & Company also claimed that as THEIR default setting.
Sooner or later, DH & Company will start reacting to your father’s journey in terms of what it’s taking from them - as opposed to what it’s doing to you.
More “trigger talk” — when you need it the least. And the pathologically self-absorbed never let bad timing or abject thoughtlessness stop them. So you need to be ready. Ultra-ready.
New game, new rules.
Dorker, from what you have said about your therapist, he/she sounds like a good fit. Keep that relationship active. Start fortifying yourself before all the wheels fall off.
((((big hugs))))
If this kind of crap is keeping MIL from forgiving the Horrible Sons of Awful EB, she needs to talk to Church Lady or the Pastor more about some of the more obscure parts of Christianity that Jesus talked about once or twice, like forgiving people who've wronged you. . .