I've posted before about in-law care-giving. Aged mother in law, lives in same town.
We are at the tail end of a visit from sister in law from several states away. Sister in law has been here for 3 weeks caring for her mother. A much welcome respite.
It had been discussed, prior to her arrival here on the scene, she would be talking it over with her mother, to try and get her mom to come up to her home, for a stay of maybe a few months.
This, in my opinion, is absolutely essential, as I am expecting twin grand-children, due in about 1 month (if they don't come sooner, as is the case a lot of times with multiples pregnancies). The expectant mother also lives locally here, and has a 4 year old daughter. I will be on that front, helping .. as much as is needed. And not on the front with mother in law and care-giving, and have made that as obvious and apparent as I know how to make it. It would be great if mother in law would agree to go to her daughter's home (several states away) for a period of a few months .. and allow me the latitude to put my energies where I want them to be, on my daughter who will have had a c-section .. and my grand-daughter (4 years old) and new twin babies.
Nothing doing. Mother in law has dug in her heels, and will not hear of it, going to stay with her daughter for any period of time.
What are her reasons?
In mother in law's defense ... her daughter ... I don't even know how to describe it. I will say that when her daughter comes here to visit, she all but breathes for her mother and if she could find a way to do that, she'd do that too. She is the most nervous nelly, never sit down - ever ... worry wart, do everything, all the time .. person that I've ever encountered.
A great example, as I was taking her to the airport yesterday for her departure, . I reached into the fridge to grab myself a bottled water and shut the fridge and turned to walk away, as I've done for all of my 50 plus years living on this earth .. and she said to me, "Oh make sure that fridge shut". WTH???? Like I don't know how to shut a fridge? That's just a small, very small slice of what she is ... how she is.
She is so very hyper-vigilant, seeing to every minute details down to it's finest most minuscule point, fine tooth comb, questioning every point along the way, "should we do thus and so, but maybe if we do thus and so, then such and such will happen, maybe we should do it thus and so .. but then so and so might happen, maybe we shouldn't do thus and so, but do "x" "y" and "z" instead, but if we don't do it that way then ..........", on and on and on and on it goes. And usually in hyper warp speed, as to every single friggin thing.
If her mother moans .. "what's wrong mother?, why did you moan, are you alright?".
Mother: "Yes, I'm fine, I was just sighing out loud".
Sister: "Why did you sigh? Are you hurting, are you sure you're alright, why are you sighing what's the matter?"
Mother: "For God's sake __________________, I was just sighing, .. calm down, I'm fine".
Sister: "Are you sure, .. because if something is wrong you need to tell me".
Mother: "Everything is fine, I'm fine".
Sister: "Are you sure, we did a lot yesterday, did we do too much, maybe we shouldn't of gone to two doctors in one day .. was that too much for you, are you too tired now, maybe we need to move those other doctor appointments so we won't have two in one day, is that too much for you, for one day .. is that why you were sighing .. what's wrong, are you sure you're alright".
Hopefully that kinda gives a little bit of a snapshot of what goes on when sister is in the ring directing things.
So in mother in law's defense.. I do get it, why she wouldn't be chomping at the bit to go to her daughter's home.
BUT ....
The only experience she has with her daughter, in the last years as mother in law has aged and been unable to go anywhere much, has been the daughter coming here, periodically, for periods of about 3 weeks at a stretch. When her daughter comes here, she moves heaven and earth for her mother and then some, and doesn't sit down, doesn't stop .. the WHOLE ENTIRE TIME.
Is there a possibility maybe (as I said to mother in law, when she expressed that isn't happening - talking to me - her going to her daughters .. ever) .. could it be possible that maybe if you would go to where she lives .. she'd be more busy managing her own life in that setting than your's and she would get out of your backside .. and not be as hyper-drive-vigilant as you experience in her, when she's here, could that be possible.
The daughter is retired, lives several states away. Does come here, generally, every few months .. and stays for a period of about 3 weeks at a stretch. I wish I could make a list of everything the daughter did when here this last time, but it would take up the whole character allotment:
your father isn’t able to organize his care, or doesn’t want to. Do the things you are asked and drop him off in front of the house. Why enter for verbal abuse or explanations? You drive and drop off. Minimize exposure. What is happening on your therapist hunt? Cause DH is trying to blow past boundaries...stealth mode.
as you put it, slights that maybe occurred throughout their marriage at his hands .. kinda pointless yes. In the end, .. she doesn't "get it" all the time.
Anybody in their right mind, would not be seeing a daughter .. A DAUGHTER ......... and a daughter that comes ONLY when there is transport to doc need . not every day .. would be seeing that with gratitude . that they aren't able to do so . and thank the heavens above that someone that is caring can do so.
She has a broken brain.
So lashing out at her .. kinda .. I'm only human . and so . she bites at me, she may get it back too .. I am human afterall. But .. do I hope to get her to the point that she will cowl down to "I'm so sorry Dorker, . I see that you're only trying to help".
It ain't gonna happen.
Whatever their deal is in their private lives . that she maybe has a problem with him being carted to . let's say in this instance . .a doc appt she deemed so not even necessary and worse yet . by a daughter (Dorker is family now?) .. that's between the two of them.
If she harps in his ear to the degree that he wants me . out of the scene there entirely . he knows how to get me on the horn and let me know.
If he's tired of her static and noise on the topic . then he can deal with it how he sees fit .. he lives with her, he's married to her, I do not.
Yes the man has smoked for umpteen decades and now the rooster is home to roost on the issue ....... and so be it. IMO ............ as someone else put it here . maybe the better approach for her to take (she won't, she'll ride this up one side of him and down the other til he takes his last breath) .. is to enjoy . as best as possible, the days/weeks/months . whatever it is . left of their lives together and leave the harping about smoking on the sideline. IT's done .. he never stopped smoking (has now) ....... through all the years of her bi7ching about it ....... it never changed it.
I doubt seriously he's going to say to her, .. "Gee dear, you were so right, I guess I was living under a rock for decades and so unaware that smoking would ultimately kill me .. I should've listened to you . and every bit of info out there .. I was so wrong".
He won't say that.
So her harping about it, .. I dunno . harp all ya want . it's just gonna make ya miserable yourself.
Just as . (another secret of their lives) she has a gay g'daughter . nobody is supposed to know about, who just had a baby. This .. is the most distressing thing that could ever have happened. That her g'daughter would be gay .. (has been married to her partner now for 3 or 4 year) .. and they just had a baby.
This is all a deep dark secret ..
And her gay g'daughter . something she will not accept . will not be a part of . inspite of the fact that K's daughter (the mother to this gay g'daughter) openly embraces the whole concept as does the husband to K's daughter . they both embrace the situation . and welcome both daughter and partner into their lives and their baby . it's nothing to be ashamed of and shoved into a closet if you ask K's daughter ..
If you ask K (and I don't . it's supposed to be a secret) .. I guess she would say that gay people belong in the closet where they should've stayed all along like in yesteryear. How very not evolved.
I have a gay daughter myself, and am open about that .. and so . why this should come as some big deep dark secret . is beyond me .. K and my dad both know .. very well . that I have a daughter that is gay .. I don't hide it.
As I shared with my dad .. him imparting how miserable the above scenario make her, that they come this way and she really is uncomfortable with the whole thing . and would rather they didn't. My words to my dad: "Unfortunate, she's creating her own misery . life is too short ... I'm of the live and let live sect .. she is only causing herself pain . it's not hurting them, they're just living their lives".
Dorker, this would be a good time to inquire, and get these important papers addressed, so that the are completed (and sorted once and for all), as his Cancer treatment goes forward. I am sure he would probably want his Wife informed of his decision, or even her appointed as his POA should that be his choice, but with her Dementia issues, she may not be the best person for this, it will be up to him to decide.
Rats!
But, this I will say...
It was mentioned by someone a while back that K was just following in the tone that dad set - in her attitude towards Dorker and her brother. Okay. I can buy a little of that. HOWEVER... K is a person with her own mind and free will. Regardless of whatever tune dad was playing - it didn’t mean K had to dance to it. For instance - when I was married to The Donor, I was the one who wrote out the child support payments to his ex-wife and made sure it was on time. If it had been up to The Donor - the child support payments would have never been made. But I made sure it happened. I knew the difference between right and wrong. Just like K knew. As for how K treated Dorker and her brother when they lived with her? The title “Mean Wicked Step-Mother” isnt exclusive to fairy tales, now is it? Shame on her! Why am I’m not surprised to hear K’s daughter is a recovering alcoholic?
Now, we hear about K being a great big ole bigot. Just when I thought I couldn’t dislike her more than I already do. If there’s one thing I have no tolerance for - it’s the intolerant.
Her grand-daughter is better off without her. IMO.
Right now she’s fixated on your Dad’s smoking. Right now that is the tuna sandwich. Even though he has quit. For her that’s the tuna sandwich.
Your Dad was dropping some information about tests. Maybe he is aware she’s beyond connecting the dots. Maybe he just wanted to show you he was trying to let the cat out of the bag.
If K had connected the dots or your Dad had flat out said he had Cancer I think Cancer would be the new tuna sandwich.
SIL and her directives from afar. IMO that is one baby duck that needs to be locked out of the yard. She creates WAY to much work for herself and drives everyone crazy. There are better ways for her to handle the business things but it’s been proven over and over she will listen to no one.
I really wish there was a way for you to tune out most these baby ducks or just tell them to back off.
It only said the following: "Must've been some kinda storm you guys had last night. Mom called me this morning . she said the power had gone out at Purgatory . in that storm .. and they were on backup power or something . the aides all walking around with flashlights .. must've been a bad one".
I never responded. Why?
Because with her ... it's always something, always a need. How can the above be any "need"?
The next thing ya know, you answer the above: "Oh it wasn't as bad where I am .. some rain, but not all that bad".
Next up would've likely been: "I wonder if mom's house is okay . .you don't think they lost power out her way do ya .. and maybe if there was any power surge or anything . or lightning strike . no damage to anything there? Maybe if one of you could go check her house".
THAT my friends, is how it goes.
I chose not to ring in on the group text, as did DH, no response from him at all. He was at work . and likely preoccupied and he routinely ignores what comes from her. DD did weigh in . "yea it was gnarly here". She lives closest to where MIL resides in Purgatory.
SIL then weighed in: "I sure hope that mom's doc appt goes okay today . that transport arrives . and they get it all done .. I know she called me early this morning . she was talking about last night's storm, but wanting to know what are the points she needs to cover at the doc appt".
I read all this, but didn't weigh in . nor did DH . and DD didn't even on the latter part, no one did.
Next up would've been: "If any of you have time, to go meet that transport van . mom feels worried she won't remember to cover the points that need to be talked about".
I didn't weigh in . at all. Nor did DH . and on that latter part, nor did DD either. She was texting into oblivion. No responses.
This ignoring thing . it works out great.
As to K, maybe that was my dad's initiative. Maybe there was hope in him . laying that albatross out on the table .. she'd be less likely to fly off the handle at the news .. me present. It worked, I'd say.
She didn't fly off the handle, .. in fact, at first . .there was zero reaction at all. Surprisingly.
He then threw out another little tidbit .. and that did rate on her screen . and she did react .. but only slamming her hand down on the arm rest demonstratively . and began in the whole "SMOKING" thing .. (justifiably).
If she unraveled with it all . after I left there, . I'm not aware of it, and that's fine .. I don't need to be. If she has gotten fixated on some aspect of the whole saga .. and is hounding my dad with the same repeated questions non stop .. I'm not aware of it. Or . maybe she even forgot . and it hasn't been mentioned again under their roof. Don't know.
I'm kinda of the inclination of Rainmom on K's treatment of what was, . at one time, two kids that came as part of a package in marrying my dad. She was an adult . and can form her own opinions . and for her to treat us "with a difference" . is just flat out wrong, and she did.
Fortunately . my life evolved into a different direction once I moved away from their home . I was a pre-teen that took on baby sitting jobs for the wknd . to earn my own $ .. and so didn't go there . .all the time for visitation . and beyond that, a little p/t job . as a teen . and my friends and my activities . and then dating . and so . being subject to that kinda treatment . really wasn't on my radar at all, . once I moved away.
Literally .. I got married, . started my own family .. and was busy w/that . and so .. being in their presence . was pretty much bdays/father's day/xmas . that kinda thing . nothing more. One can be pleasant .. even to someone who was less than kind to them . in those brief settings and I was .. and she was "pleasant" enough in those settings.
The reason you need to anticipate and find an answer to that question is that you are having a target painted on your back and don't seem to have noticed it. K's daughter is wisely burrowing underground. You, however, have already allowed your name and telephone number to feature on a number of organisations' records; you are expecting to take your father to appointments and to accompany him as the apparently attentive note-taker; and you're telling us that no you're not going to get involved.
Nip this in the bud NOW. Talk to K's daughter. Get to the bottom of who is commissioning services and how that is going to be handled in future. If she's not volunteering and you're not acceptable, let alone not willing, fine - but then who?
Has DD told you how MIL's medical appointment went, or did she bow out of accompanying her?
Maybe DD, in the end, .. decided .. she just can't be the accompaniment to such endeavors and has thrown in the towel on any set up such as that. Maybe she just decided on that one instance, it wasn't going to happen. I don't know, I haven't asked her.
The appt did in fact transpire yesterday .. as I heard DH taking to his mom on the phone. I guess the hip doc says that things are healing just fine . and that she needs to now work on getting onto her walker. I concur. I know .. that one of the days DH and I arrived to Purgatory . she was in PT at the time. And the PT personnel . asked her would she like to "walk" back to her room . using her walker (which I know she does in PT, but not otherwise, . not to my knowledge), . .and she did . yes, .. she wanted to "Walk" . back to her room . to visit w/us .. vs. the wheelchair. So that's what she did .. s-l-o-w going .. very slow .. and gait belt and PT guy walking alongside, and wheelchair being pushed behind her. Not all that far to walk really .. but I guess . if you can hardly walk, it might've looked like walking a long distance.
She did it. She got as far as the doorway of her room and then asked for the wheelchair, . to be wheeled into her room. I guess couldn't go anymore.
I know it's also been said that the walker doesn't see any use, outside of PT. And ... she can't .. she just can't do it .. as in .. time to get out of bed and amble along to the bathroom, which is all of maybe 20 steps away .. she just can't do it . she's not able to do it.
So I don't know . maybe that was a "good day" . the day she walked back to her room on the walker, PT staff member escorting. That's not typical.
But I guess the hip doc yesterday and the xray done . he said that it's time she get to using her walker. I guess we'll see how that develops.
I know she didn't have DD with her .. DD was in fact, over here . with the twins . the 5 yo was gone to the other g'parents home. So DD wasn't with her for said appt.
DH asked her if she got those all important (that SIL would have heaven and earth moved to get it done) .. knee injections.
MIL's answer to DH: No, . ya know . I had to get an xray first and then wait for the doctor, . and by the time the doctor came in, he was really rushed . had a meeting to go to . and so . he really didn't spend anytime at all with me (translation .. he probably spent an ordinary amount of time . and her broken brain doesn't compute that) .. and so .. I didn't really get to talk to him all that much .. I didn't ask him about the knee injections. But ya know, really . my knees aren't bothering me . and so .. I guess if I'd of told them that . they wouldn't of done it anyway . and I don't know that I even need it, they aren't bothering me".
<maybe the reason here knees aren't bothering her these days, when . yes, they formerly were very painful . before she was remanded to mostly a wheelchair, is because she's not up on her legs all the time, as she was before .. and so .. I question why that was such a pressing issue that SIL was so insistent get seen to .. but whatever, I stay out of it .. annoying as h377 hearing about it . for the last few weeks . but . whatever>.
DH didn't ask her about the other pressing . .oh so pressing . that SIL has called everyone but the prez of the US about .. trying to get enacted . is that she is set to expire as to PT .. and so another order needs to be written .. so her PT can continue. SIL has run this past everyone but the prez .... for the last few weeks, how critical that is. Telling the gal at Purgatory .. numerous times . that the escort needs to make sure that gets seen to . several times, to the point that the staff member that facilitates such things has gotten annoyed and snippy in tone with
Snippy in tone with SIL at her repeated reminders. SIL has called the hip doc office, and asked them .. more than once, to make sure an order gets written for more PT.
She has told her mom . countless times (I might as well tell one of the two yo twins . it doesn't get remembered when telling MIL).
I don't know if that got seen to, I didn't hear DH ask his mom .. "Did you get them to write an order for more PT". I don't know .. he didn't ask. I didn't prompt.
I'm guessing if it didn't get done .. that SIL has burned up phone lines in every direction .. to follow behind on that one. Haven't heard.
And yes,.. MIL had called SIL first thing yesterday AM . I guess the news she so wanted to impart to her daughter, was about the bad storm that was the night before, knocking out power to Purgatory for a bit .. and .. wanted to ask her daughter, "now what is it that I'm supposed to be asking at my doc appt" .. and so . maybe MIL saw to it .. I really don't know.
I know when DD had mentioned initially wanting to meet MIL at this all important appt . it was on the premise (very true) that there are points needing to be addressed (knee injections, new PT orders) . and MIL won't remember to see to it. So DD was to go . to see to those points.
I didn't even argue the point. But if I had it would've gone about like this: "DD .. in case you don't know it, SIL has notified everyone but the Prez of the U.S. that knee injections are needed and a PT order needs to be written . she has talked . more than once to the gal that sets up such things at Purgatory . to the point the woman is annoyed with SIL's repeated reminders .. and she has called the doc office, to prompt them to action . .and so . it has been seen to from every corner . but whatever .. but ya know . MIL can't possibly be the only NH resident there that is not capable of seeing to finite detail at a doc visit .. SIL would do better to find out what they do in the instance of other residents with that issue . and follow that path .. but yes . .by all means, let's all upend our worlds . to make sure that all the "i's" are dotted and all the "t's" are crossed .. .let me jump to . and make sure you have kid baby sitting coverage and can go to the appt . .or go myself .. she is so ridiculous".
No .. I didn't say any of that, because in the end, I was not able to babysit any way .. I had to go get my dad for an appt for him.
But . .the appt, in the end, fell through on that date . no transport available and no escort, and so got moved to yesterday . and I never heard anymore from DD about trying to figure a way to get herself front and center on the moved appt.
There's been no dialogue . between DD and myself .. on it all.
If DD feels compelled to jump to that beat (a beat that I would have seen to in a different manner, .. one being . that she's not the only resident there w/memory problems . let's get her treated accordingly and get that addressed) ... if she feels compelled to be part of that scene .. and jump to that beat . have at it. I just won't be babysitting cov'g for same .. as I do enough of the babysitting cov'g just for what I consider legitimate need .. as to DD and the kids.
As to my dad (not the way I'd do it) .. but .. he is having c'givers that are not via an agency. Some old codger that he knows has a c'giver . .and that c'giver knows other folks . her friends . that do the same thing. And there ya have it as to who his c'givers are.
From past posts its been said that sil is aware of her mothers declining ability to remember and reason. Although, sil does seem somewhat selective when she admits this - usually only when sil herself, is tired and frustrated with her mom and the status quo.
Far away, back in Illinois - sil seems to be comfortable in putting her rose colored glasses back on and deluding herself into thinking if she just reminds mil enough, if she stresses the importance to mil, if she can get her mom to focus on the task at hand... mil will manage at her doctors appointments.
As Dorker and others have said - until a cognitive assessment gets done and/or until approaching MILs care plan from a Memory Care perspective - sil will continue to make everyone nutz with her constant nagging, prompting and reminding.
EVEN THOUGH . they currently have a speech person working with her on memory issues. Who knew that a speech person does that. I didn't.
But they have (I noticed it there) .. there is a handwritten . looks like photo copied . and it has the dates of the week . written out and then a big blank space . to write in . and then the next day of the week and a big blank space to be written in . and then another and so on.
I asked MIL about it and what that is . the speech person works with her on memory .. she is to write down (she doesn't do it, and I asked her why and she said . she can't remember .. DOH .. go figure) .. she is to write down what happened ... on each day and it's even outlined into "morning" blank space, "lunch time" blank space, . .and "Dinner time" blank space.
MIL is to be writing down what occurred in her daily life in those spaces and they will "review" for the sake of memory what goes on.
It's all blank. She doesn't write in it.
I did, on one visit .. I took it and wrote as to the date and time we were there, . and what we did (wheeled her outside to visit) .. had lunch together. I wrote in it, . and I suppose along came the speech person at some point, "oh I see here, looks like on such and such date . you had a visitor named Dorker and you guys sat outside and had lunch, what can you tell me about that visit".
I don't know how helpful that is, or if it's even being noted in the context of, "this lady doesn't know from one minute to the next what just happened or what she's been told or experienced".
One can only hope.
But no .. SIL . has on her rose colored glasses complete with the pool float for the River of Denial and is cruising along in the waters and sipping her happy umbrella drink.
AND HOORAY ........................ good sense does prevail from time to time. Sounds like SIL has cancelled the appt next week with the doc for Osteoporosis. She said . this was done at MIL's behest. MIL not wanting to open that can of worms and go there. Even MIL has better sense on such matters than SIL. But in any event, that appt has been dashed.
SIL said that MIL asked her, "now when do I go get my teeth cleaned again".
SIL said she responded to her mom: "I don't know, we'll have to work on that" . and has no intention of doing so at present . it's just too much . as she put it, to get it all organized to have her hauled around for doc/dentist need. As SIL put it: "I guess if she were having a toothache or something, or a broken tooth . then yea, .. but a cleaning . .just brush your teeth good, we'll see to that later".
Wow . good sense does prevail every once in a while.
Lol. yep. Funny image.
Also Dorker, a few posts ago you used the expression "fine as frog's hair". I had never heard that one before. Thank you for that.
I call them Dorker-isms. Good stuff. I particularly like the word “ilk”.
And, for what’s it’s worth - in case anyone else had been wondering... baby ducks don’t have teeth. Actually, ducks in general - don’t have teeth. I looked it up.
However - I think Dorkers ducks are probably a rare breed that the experts and writers of all things Duck - don’t realize exist. Lucky them. Because, I do think that - in fact, Dorkers baby ducks DO have teeth and that they can take quite a bite.
I guess the latest .. per DH this morning .. I guess he got a text from his sister of MIL's sadness. I guess that would be sad . to be in her setting and experience this.
When someone dies there .. I guess in the interest of removing said corpse and trying not to create any associated drama .. they go around and close doors to rooms . and I guess . the body is wheeled out on it's gurney in a body bag . and I don't know . maybe the slumpers that conglomerate . are subject to same, but those in their rooms . maybe none the wiser .. since the staff have gone around and closed doors ..
Sounds like a resident expired there yesterday afternoon late and so how MIL even knew it .. since she stays in her room all the time .. and they come close the doors .. I don't know . maybe she now knows that is the trigger for "oh there's a dead person in our midst" .. I dunno.
But sadness . in MIL . that someone has died .. and that she wishes she could be next.
All is quiet on the front with my dad's world, for now.
A laugh out of you has been “scarce as hens teeth” lately.
And yes, raising kids (or grands) and caring for elders can seem like “being pecked to death by chickens.”
So good to see you feeling better.
I didn't even see it that way myself.
Only saw it from the prism, "well it must be sad to live there (God's waiting room I guess)and know that yet another one has keeled over".
Talked to my dad yesterday on the phone to wish him HFD. Found him somewhat riled (but also resigned to the whole "we're all just victims of bureaucracy).
The rub with him .. I still don't know, and I don't care to dial down on it. As I described the other day .. the saga had been, as we all know .. he'd not wanted to discuss the cancer dx .. while sick and out of it in the hospital . and .. oncologists concurred, as did I. Kicking that can on down the road. It did get put on the table, between he and myself, about 1 week into his rehab stint.
There, I shared with him what I knew, from talking first hand, in person, his presence not a part of it, with the oncologist. Which is that there will be an appt., and at said appt., a PET scan will be ordered, as to further looking into whether the cancer has metastasized.
Let's remember .. he was so sick and so out of it . that not discussing it, . for a long while, was a viable option. And .. WHEN it did get on the table for discussion, he hadn't wanted to provide a whole lot of dialogue on it all. I can't read his mind . and I'm not going to even try .. I'm not gonna be another SIL that takes the bull by the horns and ramrods what happens and what doesn't .. and just shove him along. You tell me you don't wanna talk about it, . .. I'm gonna bring it up . when it finally gets to that point (1 week inpatient at rehab) . and tell you what I know, .. and .. you can ask me any questions (he didn't) .. and we'll go from there.
Fast forward to now, . we had that appt last week with the Pulmonary doc (has absolutely zero to do with the cancer dx . although it is a part of his medical rec'd and was asked about, at that setting, has he gotten the PET scan).
At that appt., . they indicate they want him to have a PFT (Pulmonary Function Test). That, they indicate, will need a referral . and so they will work that behind the scenes, and contact him as to an appt for the PFT.
They asked about the PET scan .. (the NP that saw him in the Pulmonary appt) . and he told them what had been told to him, by me .. that he is to have that as a part of the oncology appt upcoming . and the PET scan will be ordered at that time (accurate info).
The Pulmonary NP that saw him . then, only indicated, she'd be giving us a biz card, would like us to make sure she gets a copy of PET scan results.
SHE DID NOT SAY .. "I'll go ahead and order that PET Scan". She DID NOT SAY "let us take that on . and get that ordered for you".
She, in no way indicated they'd be taking that ball and running with it, nor did she ask if we'd like them to do so. She only indicated they'd work the system to get the PFT ordered up. A DIFFERENT test.
Somehow, .. (I know this from last week's email from dad .. as well as yesterday's phone conversation with him).
He is all up in arms . as he got a phone call last week from someone .. I don't even know who called him or for what purpose ...
Maybe too much for him to navigate and process these days . maybe that's what it comes down to in the end. But . as I said above, I am not going to become another SIL . that works this thing from pillar to post . and ramrods the show.
He has been told my assessment of his situation . that he and his wife both, need alternate living arrangements. They have a LTC policy each (so it's said, I've seen nothing to prove or disprove that). He's said he needs to comb thru that policy .. (I've heard nothing as to whether that is being done).
My dad all up in arms and riled . even still.
He'd had a phone call last week from some individual . he's not even sure what the angle was, .. what was the purpose of the call. He doesn't know, . his beef that he ties it all to, as to the beef itself . is that we're all just a part of a massive bureaucracy . and a victim of same (in some cases, very true, . but some of us are more adept and able to dial down on .. some of the massive bureaucracy we find ourselves caught up in .. some are not).
I guess he somehow supposes that this phone call, might've been (he's not sure) . maybe the individual trying to get him scheduled for that all important PET scan . in advance of .. the oncology appt (which yes, would make a lot of sense) . .. but that the guy just kept talking about confirmation of the appt this week (which of course, is the oncology appt, where my information tells me, the oncologist will order said PET scan . and so said PET scan will be "AFTER" the appt, nor prior to) ..
Him beefing .. even still .. as to being a victim of monstrosity of bureaucracy.. that they throw these people on the phones that don't even know what they're doing, or the purpose for why they're calling the patient . .and they can't answer questions, they can only read from some (as he put it G'd&mn script) .. and any deviation from that script only brings about more script .. and so .. getting any answers . you're just dealing with someone on the phone that doesn't know their azz from a hole in the ground".
As he put it, .. "That Pulmonary doc . she was gonna see what she could do to get that PET scan on the radar before the Oncology appt., .. I don't know Dorker, I'm guessing that was someone calling about that . but when I asked the guy would only just read his stupid damn script .. and he wouldn't answer outside of that, I don't honestly know what that call was about, but needless to say .. it doesn't look like that nice gal was able to get it done .. so I guess . in the end, we go to the Oncology appt, and we won't have that PET scan by the time we get there . and so .. we'll just have to get that from the Oncologist when we see her".
Well yea! That's what the "plan" was all along . a "plan" you wanted no part in any dialogue on ..
I told him this the other day when he emailed as to his confusion/frustration/confounded .. that he'd gotten this call that seemed to be from someone who only wanted to read a script of some sort, and not able to tell him the purpose of the call.
I had answered him at that time, . that it had been my info . that PET scan would be ordered as a result of the Oncology visit which takes place this week, not before . and that Pulmonogist gal .. no dad, she said she'd be ordering the PFT . she never said a word about trying to intervene on a PET scan.
I already answered that last week, when he emailed as to his frustration on all the above.
Not going there again. Not gonna dial down on the finite points of it all, nor take the bull by the horns and shake loose every branch of every tree between here and there . on trying to get that all important PET scan . likely not possible to do .. in advance of what is an Oncology appt, this week.
I'm not MPOA . and I've said that is important that someone get that designation . if not me, then someone . who can act on your behalf.
He is so supremely frustrated . to have rec'd a call that he considers . just a victim of a massive bureaucracy that isn't even clear as to what angle, what was the point.
But for me, .. from my angle .. it's more a matter of .. "Look . for weeks and weeks you were too sick to even be a part of any dialogue on any PET scan or otherwise as to that cancer dx . and didn't wanna talk about it. I DID ASK the Oncologist that I spoke to in person . can we get that while he's confined to the hospital here and the answer was no. I went with what was directed, .. there will be an appt with oncology . and PET scan will be ordered as a result of said
as a result of said visit, . that is the order of how things would transpire, as related to me, by Oncologist I talked to in person.
Subsequent to that . when you were discharged from the hospital . and to go to Rehab . they handed me a card that you had an appt, like the next day .. at Oncology. I rescheduled it . no way in h377 would you have been amiable to or able, to be transported the very next day . when you were still trying to get your footing in a new setting of rehab .. I rescheduled it .. otherwise you'd of been carted out via medical transport . to an oncology appt, . from the rehab setting, which would've been a whole other set of . *caught in some damn bureaucracy*. I rescheduled it. You didn't wanna talk about it .. any of it. So then fast forward to one week into the stay at Rehab . I then did bring you up to speed on what it is I know, my knowledge as to the Oncology piece of all of this . there is an Oncology appt. on such and such date, and at said setting, a PET Scan will be ordered that is my knowledge of what is to transpire . as the one you designated to talk to them . outside of your want to do so".
My challenge is to stay out of his boiling over tea kettle at this point. He is most upset and upended at this call, that to him, the bottom line becomes one of . being caught as a victim of a massive bureaucracy that doesn't know chit from chitola .. and being powerless to even know what the angle was, . what was the point of that call .. and the idiot on the other end, with their agenda that isn't even a clear one . and asking questions only brings about more script reading . one can't get to the meat of the issue.
Stay out of the way of his boiling over tea kettle .. and not get caught in the maelstrom of his storm, with it all.
Yes, I could .. I could call that Oncologist this week, in advance of the appt later this week (don't you guys think, at this point, I mean . the man was supposed to have seen you guys weeks ago . and so .. don't you guys think it's kinda critical that we get that PET scan done . and maybe at the appt later this week, we'd have the info at hand . and available, so that we wouldn't then have to have another appt to discuss results .. we'd have those results . right there available, doesn't that make more sense . can we do anything to shake lose this whole thing . and get that PET scan done .. like now!".
Yes, I could do that, but I'm not going to .. I'm' not going to get in the biz of managing affairs I have absolutely zero say so in ...
This is what it looks like, when you aren't a hamster wheel/plate spinner .. whirligig maker .. as to the care of an elderly . and .. absolutely no wherewithall . on that elder's part to do what they need to do . as to dotting the i's and crossing the t's as to what is needed in the way of administrative function to it all.
"yea dad it can get frustrating .. well just wanted to wish ya a HFD .. and hope yo you and K are having a decent day . gotta run now, got a houseful here, .. grilling out and swimming and enjoying the afternoon, talk to ya later this week".
Which makes more sense to you?
Going to see the oncologist without the PET scan results, and then going to see him again with them later on?
Or going to see the oncologist with the PET scan results, so that he can make his educated guess based on the right information in the first place?
You're very clear that you were told the PET scan would be ordered during the oncology appointment, and I don't doubt that that's what somebody said. But if an instruction makes no sense, you are free to query it. And it sounds as though some bright spark who's accidentally found his way in to the huge bureaucratic machine has done just that.
To no avail, sadly. Because apparently your father is incapable of conducting a straightforward telephone call and asking basic questions, like who are you and what do you want.
No, of course you don't want to turn into SIL and start ordering interesting new tests and therapies for your Dad left right and centre - whoo-hoo! Isn't this fun? - but neither do you want there to be NOBODY co-ordinating this project, and he isn't up to it.
Bear in mind that pointless appointments are a waste of your time, too. There must be a happier mean than this to be found.
Were someone to take the initiative (me perhaps) to call Oncology .. "hey guys .. ya know, . .we've got this appt on Thursday of this week .. I cannot believe we're now gonna show up there . and no PET scan results in hand, to even have any intelligent dialogue . can't we make that PET Scan happen in advance . so we show up there . PET scan results ready to be discussed" ...
Yea, I could do that.
But you have to remember .. for a l.o.n.g. time in all this .. he didn't wanna talk about it .. some of that, far too sick to do so .. but beyond that, when he wasn't "as sick" he didn't wanna talk about it.
So .. I went with the premise given.
So now, .. to go shake loose all the powers that be to move heaven and earth . and even then, as a result . who knows .. "oh well at this late date Dorker .. yea we can can get you guys in tomorrow, but those results get sent to "x" .. so and so to be read and so even still . won't be available until sometime next week".
Me: "Oh well then let's just reschedule that oncology until the results of above are ready and available".
"Oh well, Oncology .. we don't have any available appts left until into August".
"No you don't understand . this is really more critical than all that, this is all stuff that should've gone on before now, but ya know, this old man . my dad . he didn't wanna talk about it, deal with it all, but now . now there is this urgency to it all, and so I need all of you to jump to the beat of my demands . because NOW apparently he does wanna talk about it, and deal with it .. so everybody get to stepping to my beat".
Nah.
Cause myself this headache and confusion and uproar .. over what?
So . I can then call him, "Hey dad, .. I shook loose every branch on every tree, and I was able to get that PET scan scheduled, .. so be ready .. I'll be there to get you by 10 AM tomorrow AM so we can rush off to get that done"
I happen to know, also, . his brother is in town .. not local, but in a vacation area about 30/45 mins from us, staying there for the week with some of his relatives, to visit and so tomorrow includes a visit by his brother ..
Wouldn't he want to move that visit by brother if we could get that all important PET scan on the radar. Yes, good sense dictates that he do so. But .. as we've seen good sense, isn't always the horse that drives this whole carriage. And so do I wanna then sort thru that debacle that will arise . not really no.
So .. okay . demand that the PET scan be on Wednesday . "no we can't come on Tuesday his brother is coming to visit him .. we only have Wednesday available", . and then be told there's no way the results will then be available as to a Thursday oncology appt .. not with only a day prior PET scan having been done.
You see all the logistics and behind the scenes kerfuffle that'll be raised in trying to shake loose any action on this whole saga. Thus .. I just don't care enough to enter that arena to try to do so.
That's all there is to it. Yea, . .. I guess that'll mean that I'll be carting him to another appt, for PET scan . (which I knew all along would be the case) and then another appt with Oncology to discuss results of PET scan (which I knew all along would be the case).
If I did all the above, .. it would only then cancel out . one add'l trip to Oncology .. .and .. in the end, . it's not that important to me to wage that kerfuffle to do it.
This is what happens when you push me to the periphery and make it rather obvious .. via your inertia . and your pushing me to the periphery and not allowing the latitude that I do know what I'm talking about .. as to what the needs are here, to mandate/dictate some of what goes on.
Not so much spite that motivates my inertia on any action or lack thereof, but one of .. "I just don't wanna go to the trouble .. not for someone who has made it plain .. my involvement is somewhat . peripheral".
Really, that PET scan should have been done by now, and the oncologist should have had the results before this week's upcoming appointment. I see it as your being halfway stuck in this already, because if you weren't, you would just be, "Arrange the appointments, Dad, and tell me when the transport (me) needs to be available. Oh, and these are the dates/times I will not be available."
You ARE somewhat involved, because you are trying to tell him what's going on, and you have already rescheduled appointments for him. Why not leave it all up to him?
As far as complaining about bureaucratic messes, that is JUST what he will be leaving YOU and your brother when he dies without a will. He doesn't seem to care about that, though.
He's quite selfish, isn't he?
He landed in the hospital, inpatient . with pneumonia . resulting from a week earlier dx of bronchitis .. and at that time, also in Afib . and .. so he was really really sick ..
On oxygen . and now IV antibiotics to address the pneumonia .. and .. they'd seen on his chest xray a suspicious mass and so it was said that would need to be looked into.
They began talking of doing a Bronchioscope. This a procedure that would send a camera down . into the bronchial airways and .. somehow in all that, one can take tissue samples and pathology will be there, to give initial read.
I questioned .. as to how sick he is, .. can he undergo said procedure, . can he withstand it.
I was told, that they will need to treat him and get the pneumonia under wraps via IV antibiotics first .. a period of about 5 days . they'd treat with IV antibiotics . but then yes, . .he will be fine to undergo said procedure . is what I was told. I asked about the risks .. and was told "collapsed lung" is always a risk .. but .. not a large one .. and of course, always complications can ensue . but it's thought to be the best approach . and so . we'll treat him with antibiotics for a few days . and get the Afib under control first . can't do anything til that's wrangled .. but then proceed with the Bronchioscope.
Fine . that's what did indeed transpire.
As we know, he ended up with a collapsed lung .. and it had been said that's a risk of said procedure . and sure enough he did suffer that result.
He was definitely very very sick ...
So now . fast forward to the Pulmonary visit the other day ... and here's about how his beef there went, bringing it all up himself:
Dad: "I'd just like to register . FWIW .. with you folks .. I mean I was brought to the hospital very very sick with pneumonia .. and ... Afib . and but nothing would do but they had to get in there to look at that suspicious mass . in my lungs . and then of course a collapsed lung ... I mean . you folks just completely disregarded how sick I was . and no allowance at all for .. how sick I was . that maybe that needs to be put off, until I'm doing better .. and that just isn't right .. they didn't care one whit as to how sick I was . just .. we gotta get in there and take a look at things . and then the collapsed lung:
It was at this point that I asked the NP of Pulmonology . who is now being beefed at as to the above:
Me: "Would you check the records there .... I'm certain it will indicate his admit date as such and such . and the procedure he's talking about . some 5 or 6 days later . would you verify that ... ".
NP looks at records, confirms what I said.
Me; "Dad as I told you before, back when you were in Rehab . that was an issue I covered .. while you were there, .. asking about the very thing you're mentioning .. and was told that yes . you'd have to have the Afib under more control, that was the case, and be into about 5 days of IV antibiotics .. and that is in fact, what did happen . as she just said .. I'm sure to you, it's all a blur . you were in fact, yes, terribly ill . but .. that . as I explained to you before . was covered .. I asked those pertinent questions and was given answers that satisfied me . as to whether that should proceed .. and in fact, as she just pointed out to you, accd'g to your chart, that is in fact what did occur".
NP: "yea . I see here in the notes he was on IV antibiotics for a period of about 5 days . before that procedure, and the cardio doc signed off as the Afib in control at that point, that would be about standard .. so .. yea .. it did go about like what your daughter says".
I had already told him all this . when he was in Rehab and beefing about above.
Elderlies ... dealing w/them!
Its isnt because he was so sick- although I’m sure there’s some of that. And, it isn’t that he’s kicking the can. It isn’t that he doesn’t want to designate a person as his proxy or even do a Will (although, I still think there is a will and step knows where and what it says).
Its that he cant. This is all too much for him. So, being a manly man he is covering with his bluster and focusing on issues that are neither here nor there - said script reader, who probably was frustrated trying to get this old guy to follow along with the conversation.
In the beginning - some of these old folks are VERY good at hiding their diminishing mental capacity. And, the smarter they are (were) and the more Type A personality they are - the better they are at hiding it. Especially with loved ones who have been held at arms length.
Whether this possibilty (probability) changes anything at all in how you approach your father, his illness and his affairs (not the lady friend, that is) is obviously and completely up to you. But I think you should at least consider the possibility and give a little thought as to if it might change anything for you and your strategy/boundaries in dealing with him and his diagnosis.
And, so it goes. Once aboard this hellish elder care merry-go-round, it’s nearly impossible to get off.
I too was under the impression the oncologists appointment was to get the PET Scan scheduled.
A lot of this depends on how slowly the wheel grinds in your part of the country. You may be looking at the PET Scan in 2 days or two weeks. You may be looking at the follow up visit to oncologist for results in 2 days or two weeks.
Where I am going with this is...and I may get blasted...your Dad needs an Advocate.
I sincerely do not think an 80 plus year old Cancer patient has the patience and stamina to coordinate their own care. Not these days. Not with the way healthcare works. No more calls to the Doc hey I’m ready to have that Scan done. Make that happen.
The whole process of making and receiving these phone calls for someone your age or mine makes us want to stick a fork in our eye!
So, my question to you would be...if you had MPOA would you coordinate his care? If that is the issue here I would suggest you take your Dad to breakfast or lunch, whatever is his better time of day and have a conversation with him and explain you could handle coordinating care but you need MPOA. Conversation not to be had in Dementia House.
I know your Dad has this six month window but you could explain the window has slammed shut. You haven’t slammed the window shut Cancer has.
Are you willing to be his Advocate if you have the MPOA in hand? If not then you need to be talking to your brother and Bossy Boots. Yes Bossy Boots. I think your brother won’t have time and he will turn the responsibility over to Bossy Boots. I know you don’t care for her but someone really needs to step in.
No one really has to step in but if they don’t they can’t blame your Dad for making a cluster of his care.
If after that phone call he got he might be ready to assign MPOA to someone.
Do you REALLY want MPOA?
My response to him at that time:
"It had been my understanding that PET scan would transpire at the direction of the oncologist, who we see next week, will be ordered at that time. If you think the cage needs to be rattled to get it sooner, you can certainly contact their office, you have the phone # for the oncologist . or if you need me to rattle cages, let me know".
And as you've seen, the only other happening along the continuum is him continuing to "beef" that he'd been caught in the bureaucracy subject to some idiot with a directionless goal of reading only from a script.
I think maybe, underlying some of this in my mind anyway .. is that he seems to want to act/think .. that he is capable . and so forth. Posturing? Bloviating? Perhaps.
But until he comes to any very real recognition this is all beyond his capability to handle . and reaches out accordingly ... and will then hear from me, more on the topic .. "Dad you and your wife both have reached the age where you need more care" . and he doesn't wanna hear my peanut gallery . that's apparent in his inertia ...
Then have at it.
I think he has enough sense to know .. reaching out in my direction is gonna come with some what he'd see as harping unnecessarily (remember that six month window he wants to give himself) ... and so .. to him . it gets perceived as unnecessary harping . and so . he doesn't wanna hear it.
Too much involvement by me, is gonna come with the strings attached of . ."Dad .. we've talked about the need for MPOA .. we've talked about the need for DPOA .. the LTC policy and it's review . .and the fact both of you are in need of more care than living alone any longer, .. what has been done to get that on the table and dealt with".