I've posted before about in-law care-giving. Aged mother in law, lives in same town.
We are at the tail end of a visit from sister in law from several states away. Sister in law has been here for 3 weeks caring for her mother. A much welcome respite.
It had been discussed, prior to her arrival here on the scene, she would be talking it over with her mother, to try and get her mom to come up to her home, for a stay of maybe a few months.
This, in my opinion, is absolutely essential, as I am expecting twin grand-children, due in about 1 month (if they don't come sooner, as is the case a lot of times with multiples pregnancies). The expectant mother also lives locally here, and has a 4 year old daughter. I will be on that front, helping .. as much as is needed. And not on the front with mother in law and care-giving, and have made that as obvious and apparent as I know how to make it. It would be great if mother in law would agree to go to her daughter's home (several states away) for a period of a few months .. and allow me the latitude to put my energies where I want them to be, on my daughter who will have had a c-section .. and my grand-daughter (4 years old) and new twin babies.
Nothing doing. Mother in law has dug in her heels, and will not hear of it, going to stay with her daughter for any period of time.
What are her reasons?
In mother in law's defense ... her daughter ... I don't even know how to describe it. I will say that when her daughter comes here to visit, she all but breathes for her mother and if she could find a way to do that, she'd do that too. She is the most nervous nelly, never sit down - ever ... worry wart, do everything, all the time .. person that I've ever encountered.
A great example, as I was taking her to the airport yesterday for her departure, . I reached into the fridge to grab myself a bottled water and shut the fridge and turned to walk away, as I've done for all of my 50 plus years living on this earth .. and she said to me, "Oh make sure that fridge shut". WTH???? Like I don't know how to shut a fridge? That's just a small, very small slice of what she is ... how she is.
She is so very hyper-vigilant, seeing to every minute details down to it's finest most minuscule point, fine tooth comb, questioning every point along the way, "should we do thus and so, but maybe if we do thus and so, then such and such will happen, maybe we should do it thus and so .. but then so and so might happen, maybe we shouldn't do thus and so, but do "x" "y" and "z" instead, but if we don't do it that way then ..........", on and on and on and on it goes. And usually in hyper warp speed, as to every single friggin thing.
If her mother moans .. "what's wrong mother?, why did you moan, are you alright?".
Mother: "Yes, I'm fine, I was just sighing out loud".
Sister: "Why did you sigh? Are you hurting, are you sure you're alright, why are you sighing what's the matter?"
Mother: "For God's sake __________________, I was just sighing, .. calm down, I'm fine".
Sister: "Are you sure, .. because if something is wrong you need to tell me".
Mother: "Everything is fine, I'm fine".
Sister: "Are you sure, we did a lot yesterday, did we do too much, maybe we shouldn't of gone to two doctors in one day .. was that too much for you, are you too tired now, maybe we need to move those other doctor appointments so we won't have two in one day, is that too much for you, for one day .. is that why you were sighing .. what's wrong, are you sure you're alright".
Hopefully that kinda gives a little bit of a snapshot of what goes on when sister is in the ring directing things.
So in mother in law's defense.. I do get it, why she wouldn't be chomping at the bit to go to her daughter's home.
BUT ....
The only experience she has with her daughter, in the last years as mother in law has aged and been unable to go anywhere much, has been the daughter coming here, periodically, for periods of about 3 weeks at a stretch. When her daughter comes here, she moves heaven and earth for her mother and then some, and doesn't sit down, doesn't stop .. the WHOLE ENTIRE TIME.
Is there a possibility maybe (as I said to mother in law, when she expressed that isn't happening - talking to me - her going to her daughters .. ever) .. could it be possible that maybe if you would go to where she lives .. she'd be more busy managing her own life in that setting than your's and she would get out of your backside .. and not be as hyper-drive-vigilant as you experience in her, when she's here, could that be possible.
The daughter is retired, lives several states away. Does come here, generally, every few months .. and stays for a period of about 3 weeks at a stretch. I wish I could make a list of everything the daughter did when here this last time, but it would take up the whole character allotment:
Seems to me SIL is living it right now. Sorry, but I think it's true that distance does alleviate a lot of this constant pall during end-of-life time.
Sure wish MIL had just stayed in Illinois! After all those years that you spent with the daily grind of it all, it really was her turn.
My guess with DH is that this pall of sadness is the result of his family dynamics from birth, which was probably "If mama ain't happy, ain't nobody happy." Like, was no one "allowed" to be happy until her needs were meant? (including his Dad?) Hard to break that pattern at this stage. He likely feels a constant gnawing tension inside now due to her unhappiness that no one is able (or willing) to fix at this point. Not so much "guilt", as he never did a lot for MIL himself anyway, but he had that tension relieved before by you or SIL. I would guess his deep sadness would lift some if either you, or SIL, or whoever, stepped in and gave up your lives to her care-taking.
Hard to see right now, but this too will pass... The sleeping and lack of eating are signals, along with the way MIL seems to be just plain giving up. P/T is kind of the last hope that she is clinging to, I think. You might try preparing DH at this stage for the inevitable, and try to guide him to mold his own actions from kindness and love (rather than duty) right now, so he is left peaceful and without guilt and remorse in the aftermath. The pall WILL lift when the shoe drops, hopefully with tears and bittersweet laughter and peace, sans regrets.
He called 1st thing this morning and logjam broke in the middle of the night complete with hallucinations of SIL & DH and a niece to MIL all there to attend and help (who knows, cant explain these things).
All the above complete with the requisite sadness and despair and vocalization of "poor mom", "I hate this for her", and MIL's whines of what her life has become, the sadness of it all.
Yea, walk away from it .. dont take part in conversation on it.
Its the barometer of our world. Daily.
Today will surely bring about more requisite "poor poor mom" ...."I hate all this for her" and the broken record of the same things repeated daily at whatever unfolds as today's saga sure to play out.
Off to the kitchen I go to prepare foods to go with our grill out for the 4th today.
Happy 4th to everyone.
Dorker, don't *blame* MIL. What's she supposed to do? Turn into Little Orphan Annie? This is the opposite of what she wanted. She is in pain. Her life is one long indignity. Give the woman a break! - but also give yourself a break by just acknowledging what's going on, and then writing your own daily To Do list (with plenty of things on it that you actually like). Time spent on resenting her is utterly wasted.
I brought in cherished family photos when I visited, and encouraged happy reminiscing, as long as mom chose to do it. I encouraged Mom to call each and every loved one while I was there, for hopefully the benefit of mom and them to wrap things up in their own way. I brought in music that mom loved for her to listen too. I allowed her to wander in her thoughts, and even hallucinations... (she saw and chatted with my dad at night, and her parents, and various others)
My feelings are that it is time for DH and SIL to gently transition to this kind of thinking and to drop the "woe is us" stuff. It does seem that maintaining the facade of "return to health" and happy AL adjustment may only create more tension. MIL was lucky enough to spend that "elderly living" time in her own home with the support of all of you. Sadly, the end pattern (sleeping, hallucinations starting at night, weight loss, feebleness amplifying) is now there. Time to help MIL make her spiritual transition with dignity, grace and love, however long that time is. And time for DH and SIL to write their own scripts so that they can look back later and say - "we did it all right and we are satisfied with how this went."
(I do suspect that the next hospital emergency excursion just might result in hospice recommendations. They can be really supportive in all this.)
I agree with this. No matter what you say, it won't make a difference. He really does need to talk it out with at least the pastor.
I wish you could tune out his pity partyin' just like he used to tune YOU out when you said over and over that MIL needed more help, and that living alone was not working.
Even though this is a lull in your own involvement with your father, you are not able to enjoy it, because you are entering the pity party zone for and by MIL.
I saw DH on the phone. Figured its probably his mom as he wouldnt generally get preoccupied on a phone conversation in that kind of setting.
When he got off the phone with her he was pretty incredulous at the fact (he'd been there earlier in the day to visit her).. the story at that point had been the logjam of constipation had broken the night before into a diaper in the middle of the night complete with hallucinations.
Fast forward several hours later and into the festivities ongoing here and her phone call to DH where she was
1. Trying to orient as to what day it is/time. Struggling to grasp a piece of that reality & reaching out to DH to help her get that straight in her mind.
2. Complaining that she'd been in bed all day/soiling her diaper along as the day wore on with no diaper change "they never once came in here ... so i just continued to mess my diaper along. They finally came in to check on me and I told em that ive messed in my diaper all day and no one has come"
I heard DH ask his mom "did you push the call button mother ... its not good you sit in a soiled diaper all day, were you pushing the button to ask for help?"
I knew the answer ... why bother asking.
Of course not. It was only at his having brought it up that she then had any recognition at all of such a contraption and the words "oh you know i guess i just dont think to do that"
Then some admonishment from DH aimed at his mom.
"Mom this has been going on forever .. you have to use the call button to ask for help ... you just have a mental block or something when it comes to that call button".
He hangs up from talking to her among the chaos here with our festivities and is incredulous that she would sit in a soiled diaper all day and not request help. His words "I guess since I left her this morning ... that long ... she's sat and messed her diaper that long! She just cant remember that call button... she doesnt even think about it at all ... even though I tell her over and over".
DD: dad! This has been going on even before she went to Purgatory... its how she fell and broke her hip .. she's out of her damn mind ... doesnt do any good to keep cajoling her ... she's not gunna remember!"
ME: I keep telling them if theyll get her evaluated as to cognitive impairment ... itll step up the care .. right now they assume she fires on all cylinders ... if they know she doesnt ... theyll put her at a higher level of care and check on her more frequently.
DH: it doesnt matter ... shes checking out ... shes on the way out to her cloud
ME as I walk away disgusted and parting shot: and lets certainly not do what might help address her needs til the cloud comes ... maybe the cloud will accept her soiled diaper and all ... no dignity.
And that was that.
He's off this morning to visit before we leave town for the weekend and I said to him what I probably shouldve saved my breath and not bothered to say: "oh joy so now we can leave town later with you sad and sullen at your mom's plight"
DH: I cant help it ... I feel guilty trying to get away and her laying there in misery ... makes me feel guilty.
I didn't say it because I get so weary and (pizzed even) and was ready to drop it. Her plight permeates far too much of our existence already.
But ya know .. soon enough your day will come when you are unable to do the things that bring joy and respite ..for God's sake dont sacrifice your joy at the altar of your mom's plight... live your life as she did at this age ...
Didnt say it. Was done. Wanting it to just drop.
She wasn't lying in a soiled diaper all day. She did soil her diaper, probably to the tune of her own bodyweight in crap. That - wouldn't it be, now - is an experience that would stay uppermost in your mind for quite a while. I expect it felt like all day. But I am SURE it won't have been.
Just a mental block... This would be a breakthrough in DH's understanding if ONLY he dropped the "just". Like it's a mental block she can learn to go round or get over - it isn't. Yes, well done, you've got it - she does have a mental block. But the block is forever. There's no "just" about it.
Ugghghghghghghghggh Dorker. Sigh.
When my children had done something inexplicably dim or expensive or tiresome, I would gaze at them piteously and say "I love you..."
It was that or brain them with a brick.
Dear DH, I'm sure you love him.
Oh I'm certain things can get a whole other level of "worse". Look around at this board & some caring for spouses in deplorable situations. Yes, there's a whole other level of "worse". Grateful that isnt the case.
Nonetheless, this "is" very much a level of "worse". Daily life barometer set to the storms in Purgatory 5 miles up the road.
Forgot to mention something MIL said to DH on his visit yesterday AM.
Mind you, SIL is presently attending a family reunion on her husband's side of the family, rather large fun contingent. Held annually at July 4th where this large group gathers centrally located in a hotel.
SIL and B werent able to attend last year as her royaltt son & family were visiting from abroad and were departing back to the other side of the world on July 4th of last year.
This is an event SIL and B enjoy attending annually where/when possible.
That is where they are presently... likely enjoying it.
It is known by MIL thats her daughters whereabouts at present (how is it she remembers that but so much else is absent her memory bank).
So yesterday's visit by DH found his mom having said the following to him regarding the above.
MIL: Ya know, I know its not right but your sister is up there living her life, enjoying her trip and I'm stuck here barely hanging on in misery".
Just, wow!
I know, I know...
Her brain is broken. I know.
But on the surface without looking deeper in the recognition of a broken brain. How selfish!
Of course SIL is living her life .... what the h377 else is she to do.
And further ...maybe it was that sentiment in MIL that found her telling SIL "just dont call me anymore... just dont bother with me"
(Of course that wont be heeded by SIL)
1) SiL at event, she remembers because SiL talks to her so often and that is likely a part of every conversation
2) you guys have 4th festivities, DH has probably been mentioning for weeks
3) you are going out of town, ditto on #2
This happened to us ALL OF THE TIME until we figured out that we needed to stop telling them we were leaving and/or hosting. People get so used to talking about their daily lives with the folks (which in most circumstances works just fine, but not with that middle land place on the dementia continuum.) It gives them something to say when they visit, and they feel obligated to let the elder know they won’t be available. But, it is one of those things that requires a shift in thinking.
Giving them notice puts their fear receptors into overdrive. They do anything to get your attention back to them... not always consciously. And we had 2 of them... lots of opportunity for creativity:D
This even happened before we moved them to a facility... even when one of their other kids was here with them! It seems crazy but they want the comfort of no change. Unfortunately, catering to that desire is unrealistic.
It wasn't until we decided no more discussing it ahead of time, that we got a reprieve from the phone calls, emergencies, etc. when we tried to attend our kids’ overnight activities/vacation/hosted events of our own. We told the staff on the day we were leaving with instructions not to mention it... this is another situation where diagnosis of dementia and memory trained staff help immensely... they get it.
Then, when we got home, we could share all of the details of the trip happily. It was kinder to the in-laws and less crazy-making for us.
The first time was the hardest, after that it just because part of our way of making it work as caregivers.
If DH and SIL won’t get a diagnosis or come to grips with the sadness... this one change alone would help.
Oh, and as to DH’s moping after visiting... I am sorry you are still going through this.
He is letting her make him feel bad, does he even realize that she WANTS that... gives her control. Her reality is warped. There is no benefit to her at all for him to mope, and a whole lotta risk to his primary life relationship (his marriage).
As to his comments about “I would care for her if I could”, that one would send me through the roof. -Um, nope, you would not. Do you know how I know that? Because you had YEARS to do that. Instead, you left it to me and SIL. So shut it already. Feeling for someone you love in a rough, unfixable situation is totally understandable. Ruining our world with empty platitudes is not.-
Rant over.
He/you should make very clear to the facility that while you are out of town you are pretty much unreachable unless there is a DIRE emergency. He also should not be taking calls from his mom. For a few days, you two need a break and she is cared for.
I hope you enjoy...
ME: what if she calls you?
HIM: I'll answer... she doesnt need to know im not here
ME: what if there's an emergency
HIM: Ill come back if its bad
And there ya have it
I'd keep mentioning the idea of the usefulness of a cognitive evaluation for improving his mom's care plan. In quiet moments, not during a party.
I'd also be clear to emphasize to DD and everyone else that it's not that MIL is "out of her mind". She's got a cognitive impairment.
As much as I can be hard on DH, he did good on that choice.
SIL spilled the beans (she didnt get any memo advising she not do so) in one of their numerous phone calls. SIL staying in touch with her mom from the big family gathering where she is.
DH had no intention of telling his mom but arrived to visit her and found SIL had shared that tidbit.
I didnt ask ...
His words: its ridiculous her level of anxiety and worry (his mom's). I didnt even ask any questions.
SIL spilled the beans on last week's ingrown toenail procedure on DH also. Another tidbit he'd intended to keep from his mom ... she must've called DH 10 x's once she knew the above .. to check on him.
One of those times, he was mowing the lawn. Thats how serious the whole thing was and need to get amped with worry. He was out mowing the lawn the next AM.
Needs to learn to pass the memo to his sister if he wants it kept quiet.
Go on your vacation, Dorker. This is DH'S issue, not yours.
I would gently push the cog eval because at the end of it, someone other than you will explain the ABCs of how to deal with MIL to DH and SIL. Best for that to be done by a professional and not a family member.
She needs to be told that since she has skated all the way back up to IL and is doing none of the heavy lifting that It is NOT her place to tell MIL anything about DH plans.
If he wants MIL to know he will tell her.
So perhaps the logical step is to NOT tell SIL your plans as she can’t be trusted to employ common sense.
I mean really. What good would that do MIL. Be thinking here she is all alone?!
WHAT IS HOLDING THIS UP?? The insanity of the daily piteous phone calls and the crying and lying....of course she didn't lay in her messed diaper all day! Good grief. But, no, she probably DOESN'T know what day it is.
I can easily refuse to pick up a phone call from someone I do not want to talk to. That's how I got non-communicado with both my mother and MIL. My mother expected us to all make the first move and so she forgot how to call any of us when she needed us. My MIL simply calls to b7tch about whatever--she actually only calls my DH and even then, hardly ever. I wouldn't answer the phone if it was a call from her.
And an ingrown toenail...……...I just.....can't. I had a whole dang toenail removed and painted the kitchen that afternoon. It's just not even worthy of a mention.
Why, oh why oh WHY are they holding off on having her legally declared incompetent??? Did I miss something? B/C I think she wrote the book on it.
Sorry for the vent....I am on massive amounts of prednisone and it's kind of a truth serum. This all just seems SO over the top--every single stinking day.
Hey but I AM glad that DH has seen what you've been wading through for the last 2 years. You may want to go in separate cars to this wedding 'cause one of you is coming home early.
This was never offered for MIL? Or was it, and SIL refused to allow it?
Even with a cognitive eval and dix of MCI or dementia, MIL could still try to get up and then fall. So there's a really good chance that her trip to the cloud won't be lengthened at all by a dementia dx.
That might have caused the box to get ticked even though the assessment wasnt actually done.
Translation - "I would get her out of that place if YOU would do ALL the work of looking after her!"
It was very predictable that SIL would spill the beans. Now you need to stress to SIL daily (and to other family members) to NOT mention it again. If MIL remembers and brings it up, lie to her and tell her you are not going after all.
Trust me when I tell you she will go "off the chain" the day you are to leave if she remembers you are going. This is what they do.
I know we all know this, but sometimes it seems as if posters are urging Dorker too much and too often to try and make her H see why MIL needs a cognitive assessment. For whatever their reason(s), both SIL and H have chosen to ignore the issue.
This thread is about Dorker, and to help her. To encourage her to keep badgering H and SIL about the cognitive assessment issue for MIL is not helping Dorker (at least IMHO).
I hope that when her father's issues come more to the forefront (which seems like it will be soon), that we can also refrain from badgering her about what her father should or shouldn't do, or what she should or shouldn't do for him.
I admit to doing some badgering in the case of Dorker's father, but it was only to attempt to get her father to settle his affairs, do a will, assign POA/HCPOA, etc. Dorker now knows and has shared that it would be pointless -- her father refuses to deal with such things. He's certainly being true to himself, though -- Dorker (and her younger brother) never mattered much in the past, and they won't matter in the future. Her father's only concern is what he can get out of Dorker in the here and now.
Yep, I made that comment and went to bed and (FINALLY) went to sleep after almost 36 hrs of non stop "wired-ness" and woke up this am and felt bad for blowing up. Not my place, no matter how I feel.
I think we all just feel so bad for a situation that isn't going to ever get better and for people who seem incapable of making 'together plans' and sticking with them.
Though Dorker is not the first 'hands on' with MIL anymore, she does have that blessing of being the only common sense voice.
I think that they DID try to get some kind of baseline eval on MIL, and SIL did her usual thing--she answered for MIL and so what was the point?
For me, and it's just my POV, if you have a problem and you get tons of great advice and then you don't/can't take what comes down the line--well, that's sad, but it's pretty normal.
MIL is slowly, ever so slowly, moving towards that cloud in the sky. Another fall, continued weight loss--all these 'aging in place' things are just pointing to the inevitable. It's awful, for sure. The best they can hope for is that she kind of goes mentally, more off the rails than she is now, so she doesn't have the actual pain of remembering better times and places.
And of course, she has served all of us a great lesson of what NOT to do. How to not be a burden to our families, b/c almost all of us are going to go down the road she's traveling.
My MIL is beginning to fade out--and DH is so 'sad' for her. But he won't DO anything for her and I don't intend at this last second to step up and try to help out with her. I think he will be exactly the same as DH's hubby--feel awful, guilty, depressed, whatever, and in the end, she's going to die and he will never have had any kind of closure with her.
Oh, and I WILL be called 'selfish' b/c years ago I said she absolutely could not live with us. We have a yellow room, too.
As for the cog assessment, do DH and SIL have a belief that a dementia diagnosis would be some kind of family stigma?
I know that we all wish that these problematic people in Dorker's life would just do the right thing that is so obvious to us!
I think rovana might have hit on something, though -- do SIL and H think there is a stigma about dementia? Possibly, because it's quite certain that MIL herself thinks there is a stigma! (Similar to her looking down on the slumpers.)