I've posted before about in-law care-giving. Aged mother in law, lives in same town.
We are at the tail end of a visit from sister in law from several states away. Sister in law has been here for 3 weeks caring for her mother. A much welcome respite.
It had been discussed, prior to her arrival here on the scene, she would be talking it over with her mother, to try and get her mom to come up to her home, for a stay of maybe a few months.
This, in my opinion, is absolutely essential, as I am expecting twin grand-children, due in about 1 month (if they don't come sooner, as is the case a lot of times with multiples pregnancies). The expectant mother also lives locally here, and has a 4 year old daughter. I will be on that front, helping .. as much as is needed. And not on the front with mother in law and care-giving, and have made that as obvious and apparent as I know how to make it. It would be great if mother in law would agree to go to her daughter's home (several states away) for a period of a few months .. and allow me the latitude to put my energies where I want them to be, on my daughter who will have had a c-section .. and my grand-daughter (4 years old) and new twin babies.
Nothing doing. Mother in law has dug in her heels, and will not hear of it, going to stay with her daughter for any period of time.
What are her reasons?
In mother in law's defense ... her daughter ... I don't even know how to describe it. I will say that when her daughter comes here to visit, she all but breathes for her mother and if she could find a way to do that, she'd do that too. She is the most nervous nelly, never sit down - ever ... worry wart, do everything, all the time .. person that I've ever encountered.
A great example, as I was taking her to the airport yesterday for her departure, . I reached into the fridge to grab myself a bottled water and shut the fridge and turned to walk away, as I've done for all of my 50 plus years living on this earth .. and she said to me, "Oh make sure that fridge shut". WTH???? Like I don't know how to shut a fridge? That's just a small, very small slice of what she is ... how she is.
She is so very hyper-vigilant, seeing to every minute details down to it's finest most minuscule point, fine tooth comb, questioning every point along the way, "should we do thus and so, but maybe if we do thus and so, then such and such will happen, maybe we should do it thus and so .. but then so and so might happen, maybe we shouldn't do thus and so, but do "x" "y" and "z" instead, but if we don't do it that way then ..........", on and on and on and on it goes. And usually in hyper warp speed, as to every single friggin thing.
If her mother moans .. "what's wrong mother?, why did you moan, are you alright?".
Mother: "Yes, I'm fine, I was just sighing out loud".
Sister: "Why did you sigh? Are you hurting, are you sure you're alright, why are you sighing what's the matter?"
Mother: "For God's sake __________________, I was just sighing, .. calm down, I'm fine".
Sister: "Are you sure, .. because if something is wrong you need to tell me".
Mother: "Everything is fine, I'm fine".
Sister: "Are you sure, we did a lot yesterday, did we do too much, maybe we shouldn't of gone to two doctors in one day .. was that too much for you, are you too tired now, maybe we need to move those other doctor appointments so we won't have two in one day, is that too much for you, for one day .. is that why you were sighing .. what's wrong, are you sure you're alright".
Hopefully that kinda gives a little bit of a snapshot of what goes on when sister is in the ring directing things.
So in mother in law's defense.. I do get it, why she wouldn't be chomping at the bit to go to her daughter's home.
BUT ....
The only experience she has with her daughter, in the last years as mother in law has aged and been unable to go anywhere much, has been the daughter coming here, periodically, for periods of about 3 weeks at a stretch. When her daughter comes here, she moves heaven and earth for her mother and then some, and doesn't sit down, doesn't stop .. the WHOLE ENTIRE TIME.
Is there a possibility maybe (as I said to mother in law, when she expressed that isn't happening - talking to me - her going to her daughters .. ever) .. could it be possible that maybe if you would go to where she lives .. she'd be more busy managing her own life in that setting than your's and she would get out of your backside .. and not be as hyper-drive-vigilant as you experience in her, when she's here, could that be possible.
The daughter is retired, lives several states away. Does come here, generally, every few months .. and stays for a period of about 3 weeks at a stretch. I wish I could make a list of everything the daughter did when here this last time, but it would take up the whole character allotment:
Although she might need hospitalization, I shudder to think what hospitalization without insurance is going to mean for that family. But there may be no choice.
I approached DD that if she has these ideations we can get her checked in and the community programs available for indigent care would be accessible.
It was met with disgust and a "you guys!!!! I went off my anti depressant, I'm back on them now! Give it a chance to kick in!"
Her dad and I both stressed how worried we are about her. Her answer to that and most anything else these days, a flat/devoid of emotion/glum "Ill be okay, give it time for the anti depressants to kick in"
She has been back on them for a week.
She doesnt qualify for Medicaid. Her husband is the sole breadwinner and makes too much $ for them to qualify.
The kids qualify under some other standard ...
She & hubby do not.
There are indignant programs ... and I told her we can work to find the door to entry (hopefully without a mandatory psych 36 hour hold).
Again more of the flat, emotionless "give it time for the antidepressants to work".
Have asked of both she & hubby .. maybe best he seek employment via a setting where bene's are available.
You already know the result of that as a suggestion.
I'm not sure about what FL has as far as a mental health crisis hotline, but we have one here that is open 24/7 where, if needed, they will send someone out to come talk to you or your loved one, or will help you as far as directing you to the nearest mental health facility, checking on beds, etc, even providing transportation to the facility if needed.
Please get her some help if she is talking about suicide. It sounds like she has a plan, even if she says she won't act on it, people sometimes do rash things, especially in the throes of depression. There are in many places state funded mental health facilities that bill based on income or sliding scale, and some hospitals and facilities offer charity assistance as well.
I guess you have to be kind of on-alert, because if something does happen and DD requires hospitalization, you will be the fulltime 24/7 childcare provider.
The MOST dangerous time for a suicidally depressed person is when the antidepressants start to kick in. Right now, DD doesnt have enough energy to form or carry out a plan. Once the meds start to kick in....
So Dorker, in your shoes, I would get on the horn to the best teaching hospital in the area and talk to the social workers. Or call DD's obgyn and get advice there.
Becky may have a better idea since she's in the field.
You take ALL suicidal ideations seriously!!!!!!!!!!!!!
(Unless they are ascertained to be simply for attention, which can be the case, but doubtful in this case).
I have been suicidal and had the presence of mind to know that was NOT me. Told DH and he had me in the hospital in a heartbeat. Turned out I was just burnt out---too much on my plate, he was never ever home, 5 kids in a 1700 sf home, just had major emergency gallbladder surgery....I hit the wall and the best way out looked like killing myself. And I would have done it.
Barb is right--waiting for the AD's to kick in in the hardest time, but there are MANY cocktails of drugs that can be used to help things along. IS DD also anxious? Completely shut down? The fact she has been on AD's and they work is a good sign. They will kick in faster this time.
Sounds like she needs the help right now. A 'mother's group' probably isn't going to cut it.
And yes, my DH took me to the psych ward of a teaching hospital. I wasn't admitted, but txed and sent off with a handful of antianxiety meds and a referral which I used. Same psych doc for 23 years. He's seen me through a LOT.
I didn't even know of the suicide ideation until Saturday . when DH and I were discussing how .. DD .. she's been "weird" .. acting odd, ..
We both knew .. that they'd been here last weekend, for dinner, and she was gloomy, down .. (not typical of her) .. detached .. just flat/emotionless. That was when (last weekend) .. and YD asked her, "what's up with you?".
That's when she came forth w/the fact she'd gone off her anti depressants . .and she said the following: "I've gone back on them .. I guess I thought I didn't need them .. I don't know .. but I started back on them today". That was Sunday a week ago.
I heard this conversation and asked why she'd gone off of them, and her response .. "I don't know .. I guess I thought I didn't need them .. I don't know .. who knows, maybe I'm bipolar".
<suspicious she brought that up .. and you'll see why shortly>
I then asked her, .. "have you been to a doctor, can you go see a doctor?".
For all I knew, maybe they've done something to secure health insurance, a topic I've hounded on, to no avail.
Her answer: "No, we don't have insurance".
Me: "Well ya know, there are community based mental health organizations .. you can dial in on that, or if you want, I'll look into it".
At that point, the demeanor was changing from .. gloom/glum, flat .. to a bit aggravated and a response of: "Guys . give it time, I just started back on the anti depressants .. give it time".
They spent the remainder of that Sunday here for dinner, she and family. Her gloomy and down, didn't stay long (she's not typically that way, . generally very bubbly and so forth).
I checked with her during the week (that's also uncommon . that I'd be the one reaching out . we have gone years and years that a day doesn't pass . and she hasn't at least texted me about something .. e.v.e.r.y. single day .. usually .. and/or talked to her . for some reason or the other, never anything earth shattering, but it's been typical thru the years we'd talk daily and a point she'd pride herself in, that she's "close" to her mom and talks to her daily).
Checked with her during the week, to see if she was feeling any better, .. answer was no . not really . it'll take time. Asked if I could do anything to help and she only answered no.
I offered again, that we can dial in on community based mental health if she'd like and again it was met with .. more of the same, give it time .. etc. So that was that.
She asked me on Thursday if I'd watch the kids for the day . just to give her a break . we'd all been in storm mode, and rush/hurry/stress and somewhat .. locked in .. and so I told her yes, let me finish w/some things I have to do and bring them on .. I'll keep them for the day.
I did that.
She dropped them off, and seemingly was in a bit of a better frame of mind . and I didn't ask her .. she dropped them and scooted .. on for her day of child-free whatever.
She came back to get them after dinner, as I'd advised her I'd feed them dinner. She was seemingly okay . happy to see her kids. I did ask her, . .are you feeling any better". She said, "yes .. it's a gradual thing .. today . just having some *me* time . meant the world to me, I didn't do a thing . I didn't clean house, I didn't do laundry .. I just sat .. I just .. enjoyed quiet and no responsibilities".
I answered, "Good . sometimes that's what ya need, down time".
She took her kids shortly after that and left.
I didn't hear anything else from her .. other than .. (and this is the part, where I suspect some mania .. but I don't know, I'm not an MD). She texted me, .. just doing some cyber wish shopping ..... and showing me clothing she'd like to buy.
She has .. over the last several months . taken up running/jogging .. and vigorous exercise. All grand and wonderful . .she needed to loose weight . and is in fact,
Dropping lbs like it's water. It's falling off of her, thus her clothing doesn't fit. I'd bought her a few things . she had nothing that fit anymore . a week or so back prior . and she'd said she doesn't want anything more, plans to keep going . keep dropping lbs.
Not all that manic . .people do that, and good for them!
But it's not characteristic of her, AT ALL. She, like me ... if you see me running, you better run too, something is after me, would more aptly describe her. Oh well, people change . good for her, she decided that life aint what it should be, being overweight, and kicked in the rear to do something about it, not all that manic.
Except . over the past several months . she has been posting on social media .. pics of her and her progress .. and in some cases highly edited photos . and her own cheering squad. I would liken it almost to someone who needs a lot of stroking from all their social media followers . and she was getting it, daily . sometimes multiple times a day, .. and remember some of these were highly edited .. she was looking better . .but not as good as those pictures.
She also had begun to drink more also not characteristic of her. She, like myself . .. if someone told me I could never again have an alcoholic beverage . my answer would be . ho hum . okay . so what's next. That would also describe her, never a big drinker. That has changed in her. Not at all like her.
So what? People change .. if you're someone who enjoys drinking . better yet . have what she has on her plate to deal with . bottoms up. I mean .. I am not against drinking .. I don't happen to particularly enjoy it .. I'll have a glass of wine every once in a while . but I can go months and months and not need any alcohol beverage . that was always her, also. Until the last few months. She'd come over . as they generally do every weekend, for dinner . and she'd pop a beer or more, . .and even challenge her younger sister . who is more of a drinker, to chugging contests .. not at all typical of her. She'd get into her dad's bourbon .. he might have a bottle of bourbon in the whiskey cabinet that sits there for months . he too, . not a big drinker . just occasionally would like a bourbon and coke. She'd jump into that when here.
Not all that! I mean . people drink . .so what. So I just chalked it up to . oh well, maybe life's challenges for her these days . she's over here, where she can relax (when she's here .. I don't sit on my duff .. I help with the kids) . and so she's here . she can relax . and have a drink or two . or sometimes more . oh well.
But all of it combined, the pics on social media . highly edited at times (though todays look . she is in fact, now catching up to those what were highly edited, as far as loss of weight and how she looks).
I'd mentioned to DH .. probably weeks ago, that I'm a little concerned about her, . these pics she posts all the time, daily, sometimes multiple times a day .. I mean in more than one instance, . when I had the kids, she'd .. I guess use that time to get all dolled up . makeup . hair . and so forth and take selfies and post them sometimes with sultry looks . .and poses .. and of course all the add'a gals that came from social media posts .. and .. just all of it .. I expressed to DH that I'm concerned . she's not herself, not acting like I've always known her ..
He too, noted the pics that crop up daily .. and the drinking . and so forth. Asked her husband (he employs her husband) . "is she drinking like that at home .. or is it just when she comes over to our house?". The answer was that she sometimes buys a bottle of wine . at home . and drinks it .. but not daily.
So . it's something I've noted . there are differences in her personality and makeup these days . and it's been something of a concern . a bit. But I figured
Get over it Dorker, people change. So she's never been a drinker . now it works for her to drink some . so what?
So she's now posting all these pics all the time, .she's proud of the hard dam work she's putting in to drop lbs . and if it strokes her to get all the add'a gals . who are you to judge . leave it be.
So what you don't talk to her daily anymore, what's there to talk about any way . so what.
But it's been something noted.
So then last weekend, as I said, they'd come for dinner, her gloomy and so forth and that's when she told her younger sister that she'd gone off her anti depressants but was now seeing that was a mistake and resumed them, we had that bit of dialogue.
The week pressed on.
That's when DH and I were talking about the differences in her and YD heard our conversation and interjected the following which neither of us had been aware of:
YD: "Yea ya know last weekend, when we were cleaning the kitchen . she and I, she was talking about how down she'd been .. that she'd thought about killing herself . and she wanted to know . did I want to know how she'd do it, that she knew how she'd do it, . it would be neat and clean and no blood, no mess ..
YD: "I yelled at her, stop it, I don't want to hear that DD!!!!!! You need to get help if that's how you feel, I mean it! Does S (son in law) does he know about this .. does he know you've had these thoughts .. DD that's scary I dont' want to hear that".
Me and DH in unison: "WHY DIDN'T YOU TELL US".
YD: "I guess . I just thought ya know, she's back on her anti depressants . but yea, that's effed up .. that she'd have a plan .. that's messed up".
Me and DH both then and there vowing we need to talk to her, having just been made aware of this news.
We said we'd talk to her, . both of us together, . her husband there if she wishes, but we need to talk to her.
So then Sunday came . we got up went to church. He had a meeting after church and had already stated that he'd be going after church to visit his mom who is in the doldrums herself . .and take her outside for some fresh air, in her wheelchair . and visit with her. So he did that.
I texted DD after church to let her know that we'd not be doing anything for dinner this way . on our end . we have leftovers here, . and your dad is gonna be visiting with his mom . so . not gonna put pressure on him to get back here and grill something.
Got in response from her: "K".
That's it. Just "K".
I texted her again, "give me a call if you can once you get the kiddos down for a nap".
No response (not typical)
She did finally call me, later in the afternoon, glum . flat/emotionless .. and I just kinda felt her out for how she's feeling, explained on the no dinner plans this way for this Sunday .. not this weekend, . talked about a few other things . her flat .. emotionless .. and so I said to her, "I'm very concerned about your mental health DD ... you need to .. you need to be under a doctor's care".
DD: "I am . I take antidepressants .. just . it'll take a while for me to feel better . but it'll get better" (her emotionless .. that's her demeanor . flat).
Me: "Your dad and I are both very concerned and worried, .. we want to sit down and talk to you".
Her: What?!?!? An Intervention, what??!?!!?".
ME: No, .. intervention? No . we just are concerned, we want to talk to you".
DD: "I know, dad stopped by here on his way to see g'ma and talked to me".
Me: "He did? I didn't know that . I thought we were both going to talk to you".
DD: "yea, he stopped by, we talked .. I told him that I've just been blue and down . that I'm not going to kill myself .. I did have a "plan" .. I do .. but I'm not going to act on it".
ME: "DD don't you see, that isn't rational thinking, .. we all get depressed and down . we all do .. but we don't go as far as making a plan . you need to get to a doctor, .. of course we're going to be concerned hearing that".
DD: I'm not going to act on it mom .. I dont' want to leave my kids with no mother, that's why I haven't already done it ..
ME: "I'm very worried about you and I wish you'd let me help to get some involvement with the medical community".
DD: "Give it time . the anti depressants will take some time, just give it time".
All said flat/emotionless. Sad/blue/gloomy.
That was that.
Later when DH came home from visiting his mom . is when I asked him how'd it go with visiting with DD an their talk . and he said it went okay . that she was sad/gloomy, but not angry that YD had spilled the beans on her .. aware .. that it would be worrisome to hear what she said to YD . .. and aware that we'd be concerned, .. again .. advising to just give it time . and she also shared with DH . that her husband . gives her no breaks . (we kinda know that, but stay out of it) ..
He is the best of the best, her husband . at pitching in, at her direction . her there on site .. he does as she asks, with the kids . without fail .. and without complaint. The problem comes when she requests, .. "hey I'd like to go and have dinner with a g'friend . can you watch the kids". It doesn't go well.
We'd been kinda aware that goes on, . but stay out of it. In fact, one particular afternoon I'd called her to tell her that a consignment shop had sent me a "today only 30% off on children's clothes, wanna go". She'd tried to request of her husband . that he watch the kids . so she and her mom could go .. and all h377 broke lose for her asking. She did ultimately call me back, I guess the two of them having had words about it . and he agreed to watch the kids, we had a 2 hour time limit and so off we went. Her getting in the car w/me to go . .and telling me, it's not worth the fight . anytime I want time away from the kids.
Me telling her, "that's not healthy DD . if he won't do it, then you need to find a reasonable/reliable way to get away . that's not good .. being cooped up day after day after day with little ones isn't good . you need to get out".
DD: It's not worth the fight mom . it just isn't . usually . and it's a fight . so I just don't go there . and we can't afford to put the kids in some program somewhere .. so . I just deal with it, . .and whatever breaks you can give me . nobody else watches them for me".
So then this morning . DH said he was going to mention (he maybe shouldn't of) . to her husband (they work together) . that he's aware that is an issue (I will say of DH . he isn't barking up a tree he never climbed ... he would watch his when they were little . for me to go out and do whatever I wanted).
He did so, approached son in law. It didn't go well. Son in law denies he has any problem w/watching the kids for her . that she's blaming all this on him unfounded . and he does/will watch them . and he got angry and called his wife (DD) and was asking her why is she telling everyone he doesn't watch the kids ... that isn't true ..
She blew up at him and at DH . both ... cursing both of them .. I mean blew a gasket .. over the phone . so much so they picked up off the jobsite and went to the house where DD lives .. worried . .at her anger and venom . that she'd harm herself or her kids .. her cursing both of them out .. to her dad "Stay out my effing business, and quit gossiping about me" .. and to her husband, "You effing know it's true, dont' stand there and lie . you know dam well it's true", .. and this was an ugly scene apparently. So much so that DH took the kids to the back .. away from this whole scene . and played with them in the hopes that DD/husband could maybe calm down and have a rational discussion.
He said . he came out from playing with the kids . and son in law was outside, and DD . sitting forlorn . alone . quiet.
As DH put it in telling me all this: "Man I was worried sick leaving those kids there .. I didn't know what to do".
So that's the last of it all.
It really sounds like DD has developed a drinking problem. The heavy drinking does put her at risk for depression and even suicide. It would definitely explain the change in her mood too, as alcohol is a depressant. And her meds won't work well if at all if she is drinking heavily.
I'm sorry you are going through this, I know it's a lot of worry, especially when it's your child. I would call and talk to a hospital social worker as to what they would recommend. She is under a lot of stress and is turning to the alcohol in greater quantities to deal with it, it sounds like. But people do some really irrational things that they wouldn't ordinarily do while under the influence and depressed. Just the fact that she's been thinking about it and has a plan is really scary.
I agree that her behavior may be problematic. I was recently wondering why there hadn't been the usual mention of her in your posts. I wish her DH could provide more help. This is not an age in time where fathers don't take more responsibility for childcare. I was wondering when she finds the time to exercise so much.
I am so sorry for all you have on your plate. You are a saint to help so much with the grandchildren. I would more with mine but they are in states far away. We try to when visiting. I hope you might find a way for her to get some counseling through the methods you mentioned. Just wishing you strength through these emotional storms.
Try to encourage that she agree to seeing a professional ..
Right now, I haven't reached out today as it sounds like things got heated.
I suspect .. .part of the problem is that . she is indeed overwhelmed .. two 2 yo's .. and a 6 yo. She stays in the home day after day after day .. and she isn't engaged in any group anywhere, .. that would be an outlet.
She has me, .. and she does call upon me, to take the kids . .and I do so. But I'm not always available. I try to be, as best as possible.
I don't know if it would help her, she's not me. I know when I was raising children . (I didn't have twins though) .. and I'd had E.D.A.M.N.U.F.F. . to the point I thought I'd lose my mind . and it did happen. DH .. for all his faults . that isn't one of them. I could hand him a baby for one hip and tell him the other two are in the back I guess killing each other, I don't know .. I'm outta here.
And off I'd go. And he would man the fort. I recall very vividly that we didn't have any $ .. sometimes I'd just go sit in Barnes and Noble and comb thru magazines .. for purchase . but not buy them. Sometimes I'd amble around Walmart, aimlessly. Just anything, to get out and away from kids bickering and whining and crying . and needing needing needing this and that and everything.
She doesn't have that, in her husband. I don't think.
She definitely has a propensity for depression . and the anti depressants work, so why she went off of them is beyond me.
But quitting cold turkey and not weaning, probably exacerbated the whole thing.
I am worried about her, and I think if someone texts me today with any more problems .. I'll snap myself.
Dorker, please read this.
Adult children, in my mind, when they are in real crisis (as your daughter is) take precedence over elderly parents, cranky in laws and husbands.
I would right now move heaven and earth (and get DH to pay for a health care plan) for DD.
Cause I’ll be honest - of all the things you’ve told us about over the year and a half, this is the one that is really setting off my Danger Radar. If it means anything at all - not that I can offer any meaningful solutions - but I do have a quirky ability to read people. It’s uncanny really. Even my mother recognized it - and she was never one to recognize any qualities in me that she found to be positive. She always said I should have gone into the mental health field - after she nagged me compliant into going into business instead. But that’s another story.
How old is DD?
Was the twin pregnancy planned? If so, her idea or her husband’s or both?
How did she react when she was told she was having more than one baby?
And - this is neither here nor there but I’m wondering... What about ObamaCare? Isn’t health insurance a requirement now? I know in Oregon you have to submit proof of health coverage when you do your taxes.
Did her antidepressant cause weight gain? Several of them seem to. Did the exercise (which can act as a natural antidepressant) make her feel good enough to go off the AD?
I agree with Barb -- your first obligation is to DD. You never want to be in the position of wondering if there was something more you could have done. Let your father, H, and MIL take care of their own problems. I'd suggest calling your father and telling him you will be unavailable for chemo taxi service for a while.
Spend as much time with DD as you can, to try and help her figure out what's going on and the importance of seeking medical attention. Offer to pay for it. Her life may very well depend upon it.
https://www.legalconsumer.com/obamacare/topic.php?TopicID=75&ST=FL
Definitely sounds like DD needs a good MD in her corner figuring out what is going on. The sudden increase in alcohol use seems concerning to me, and also the sudden increase in need for social media approval. Seems like the same impulse of trying to avoid sadness, trying to tamp down the depression.
I hope she can get some help very soon! So sorry this is happening.
was the twin pregnancy planned, I mean just the pregnancy- period. Not planned to have twins.
Alos -
I seem to recall that she went to beauty school but didn’t graduate - why was that?
Has DD always been the “good” daughter? I don’t mean in your eyes but in hers... that she tries to be that.
Was she over weight as a teen? Has she a past of self esteem and/or self worth issues?
What is her husband’s cultural background? I think you’ve said his parents are still married to each other, yes?
I am walking a kind of fine line between ..
Her husband, firmly in the camp of "she just needs to stay on her AD's .. the time to have gotten all upset and in a tailspin about the suicide talk was last weekend, . that's old news now .. that was last week, she's been on the AD's now for a week, it'll take time" ..
Not stepping on his toes and being the meddling MIL . that comes in elbows and azz and making a problem.
And a DD who says the same, . "just give it time" .. as to the AD's.
Also factoring in .. this is by no means my first rodeo with mental illness. OD . remember .. put all of us through the ringer for years . in her refusal to acknowledge/accept, and deal with in any effective way . her mental illness. Refusing meds, counseling, etc.
One has to be willing to recognize they are off kilter. I guess, unless they are acutely ill and need a psych hold. (or .. delusional and schizophrenic).
Twins were a planned pregnancy . between both she and he.
Twins were not expected. In fact, took all of us by shock .. we don't have twins anywhere in any immediate family .. it took some genealogy to find that . indeed there are twins in my ancestry . about 4 generations back.
Was she excited? Terrified would be more the term I'd use. She has, for all practical purposes, . until now . risen to the occasion .. mightily.
Was she always overweight? Yes. Didn't seem to really care . until recently. Didn't seem to bother her self image . at all. And no no one harped at her about it, . .not from aesthetics .. and/or health . no one. I have weight issues myself, . I'd be the last one to harp at her.
Did she view herself as the "good" daughter? Probably so . for the years prior to about teen-age. She went off the deep end as a teen, as many do. Skipping school a lot, .. so forth. Just teen stuff.
Her husband is WASP as to nationality . .as is she. His parents are .. a mom that lives here, a stepdad married to her. His bio dad lives in TN. His parents divorced when he was very young.
I'm a cross tonight between boiling angry at how she spoke to her dad earlier, .. and .. heartbroken.
Her dad reached out to his son in law (her husband) . and was imploring that he step the eff up (wasn't said that way, I'm para-phrasing with my own superlatives).
He'd gone by talk to DD yesterday on his way to visit his mom. In that talking to her, she'd assured, she isn't going to kill herself ... so on blah blah .. and .. she also expressed to him . that she just feels so stuck .. so isolated .. and that it's too much a fight with her husband . for her to ask that he take on the kids, for her to go out and have some adult time.
Oh sure, . he's all too willing and does so, help her, . .and he's there, . he isn't in a bar anywhere, or chasing skirts, . he's home. And he does .. help her.
The problem is that if she wants to go out . I guess .. (I'm guessing . she doesn't say a whole lot and I don't pry) .. and maybe enjoy a lunch out . with a g'friend . or her MOM . .or her MOM AND HER SISTER .......... that means he is left with the kiddos . and it's "not worth the fight it causes". Apparently.
She shared this info with her dad .. it wasn't obtained by prying . it wasn't obtained by conjecture . she shared it. She has made these same noises . not loudly . in the past . that it's too much of a fight . and so she just doesn't. Shared this same info with her sister . shared it . (not much) with me.
So DH was only trying to point out (and it sounds like calmly, I wasn't there) that it would be helpful to her . if he'd be willing to pitch in and watch the kids and let her get out . and enjoy adult time .. at times. That got him on the defensive . and he staunchly denied
to DH that is any issue, .. "she can go anytime she wants, I don't care".
DH said he told him, . "that's not what has been shared with us".
He got more flustered and addled, and said something akin to, to DH: "Ya know I'm dam sick and tired of being pulled into something that isn't mine .. I don't have a problem with her going out . if she wants to . to go have lunch out or a movie or whatever .. I don't know where this comes from, I'm calling her right now!".
DH implored him to not do that, just the two of them work on it later, talk it out. Nothing doing . nope.
Got her on the phone and asked her .. why is she telling everyone that he does thus and so .. that's not true. She was on speaker. DH could hear her now loudly trouncing on her husband . that it is true, and he knows it, . but from there it blew sky high.
She basically . with every curse word a sailor has never even used .. called her husband everything but a white boy and hung up on him then called her dad . who had her on speaker . and began to do the same with him . EFF bombs flying . "stay the eff out of my business .. stop effing gossiping about me, get the eff out of my azz", and on it went ..
DH could hear the kids crying in the b'ground as she screamed these obscenities at him . and he was begging her to stop it . it's making the kids cry . stop it . but it did no good.
She hung up on him.
He and son in law picked up off the job . (they were about 10 mins away from where son in law and daughter live) . and drove there. Found her still in the mini van where she'd been when the whole curse-a-thon ensued .. and she then told her dad, .. so I'm told, . "I'm telling you dad stay the eff away from me". Except all these "effs" were the bonafide genuine wording. Not "effs".
He said he just got the kids out of the mini van and took them to the back to go play with them, and away from her vile/venomous onslaught. She was yelling at her husband that it IS TRUE . that he gives her a ration of chit . if she so much as asks to go to the grocery store without kids. He was denying this to be the case.
DH walked away with the twins . to go take them away from this.
I will pay for her to be seen, pay for meds . but she has to be willing to first and foremost . "talk to me" .. and secondly .. willing to comply with the fact she needs help. I can't make her, she's an adult. Been there seen that show far too much.
I'm just heartsick ..
This isn't the first time though she's really .. gone off the rails. Been other occasions, . in the past. There were a couple of times in the past, she and I not on speaking terms . for her actions. So .. seen it before. Anger management issues??? To say the least..
And in case anyone maybe infers that we keep the guy in slave wages. Not so. He is actually paid better than he could earn going elsewhere (which may be in part, why he's not so eager to leave, that and he has more flexibility working for DH . than he'd find anywhere, too much if MO is asked).
He is paid better by us . than he'd get doing the same work elsewhere, simply because of who he is. A son in law. Period. If he left here and went to work elsewhere, . he'd be subject first off to what's known as billable hours (he isn't subject to that with us, he is paid 40 hours a week) .. billable hours .. one is paid only for the time they are turning wrenches .. sitting in a supply shop . nope . no pay . .driving to and fro job sites . nope .. going on estimates . nope. Only the time turning wrenches. We don't structure our pay that way . and he knows what's out there . outside of employment elsewhere. He makes what would be considered a low-average income for a family in our area. Too much to qualify for any aide in fact, non WIC . no food stamps . no Medicaid . make too much $.
They did have an Obama care plan at one point but it was upwards of $300 monthly and it's coverage
absolutely ridiculously poor. A $12K deductible to start with.
They gave up the policy and haven't replaced it.
Why isn't she working? To supplement their income?
She has 3 kids that would need daycare, . that would eat up anything she'd make.
Yes she did go to and graduate from hair/cosmetology school. She was also planning a wedding at that time, against all advice given by even a hairstylist that we know and have known all her life. Don't do it. Don't go out and get married, . hair styling as a career .. is a commission job .. you won't have a large client base for a long time .. it takes years .. unless you are marrying a guy that can support you .. don't do it . wait to get married . don't do it. She did it anyway . against my advice, . her dad's . everyone.
Soon found the above to be absolutely true, but now married . and rent/lights/groceries/car payment (she left from her ... not from her own apartment, to marry) .. so on and so forth. And a paltry paycheck . and that wasn't cutting it. Left the cosmetology field . and went to work in retail.
Retail isn't gonna pay wages that would sustain daycare expense for 3 kids. It just won't.
So go to work at night, when he comes in ..
Well .. him working for DH . they don't have set hours . there are days they are in by 4 or even earlier at times. But there are just as many they aren't in until 8 or better at night. How does one design a work schedule and be available to their employer with never knowing when their husband, the kids dad will be in from work to take over coverage for the kids.
I've tried to encourage both of them . that he may . at this juncture in his life . need employment maybe . let's say with the city . or the local school system (they have maintenance crews) and there . you know your set hours are from 7 AM to 4 PM .. it doesn't deviate .. and so you know you'll be home . by 4:00 or so daily .. and that allows she can go back to work in the evenings.
Thus far, . he chimes in .. "that didn't work out good when we did that before, . it just didn't".
I back off . meddling MIL. She doesn't weigh in on the above that gets proposed . only he does . and says the above. I back off.
Your son-in-law sounds like a bit of an azz, in my opinion. Sorry. But for someone not being influenced by some archaic cultural macho bullchit- he’s sure got some weird opinions.
I am particularly... oh, I don’t know... stunned, bewildered, confounded etc that he thought it... oh, again - I don’t know... wise, appropriate, smart etc to confront DD regarding the whole “he won’t watch the kids” thing. AND - in front of dh, no less!
Which, brings me to ask you - so who’s telling the truth? DD or SIL? What’s your gut telling you?
But here’s the thing that really worries me - in your post you wondered: would she hurt herself OR HER CHILDREN!!! What made you say that?!? Then you repeated that dh said he was “afraid” to leave the kids there... That scares the holy bejeezus out of me. Whether you realize it or not - just the fact that you both thought that - those are some pretty serious and very significant alarm bells going off in your heads, don’t you think?
And, of course DD is gonna say to you “I’d never really do it...”. What do you expect her to say? “Yeah, mom/dad - very next chance I get”?
Maybe I’m overreacting and I know I’m being really blunt - but I think you’ve got more to get worked up about than DD yelling at her father and hurling the F-Bomb at him. Her brain may not be broken like MILs is, but it’s definitely sick! If it were me, I don’t think I’d be waiting around for the antidepressant to kick in or for her to ask “Please” and say “I’m ready now”. Get YD to watch the kids - then hogtie DD if necessary but GET HER TO A DOCTOR.
My gutt says he is not being truthful. Gutt & what I have experienced.
Hasn't mattered really ...
What goes on under their roof, as to how things are orchestrated. I would be told long ago for voicing much opinion, "who asked ya, stay out of it". Thus I have.
Hog tie her to an MD?
FIrst off ... I can do that.. man handle her .. and get her front & center of a physician.
Did it .. numerous times with her older sister ..
If the subject doesnt see "own" they have a problem... and have a 'want' to get it fixed. It aint gunna get fixed.
She (& hubby I might add) firmly planted in the camp "just give it time, I went off my AD's.. back on em now, give it time".
To say to her "but DD, plotting out & talking about how you'll kill yourself, thats not rational .. lets let an MD evaluate it .. not just me".
Ive said that to her (& to her husband) ... gets met with .. from him "thats old news .. when she wasnt taking her AD's .. she just needs to stay on her AD's ... give it time".
And much the same from her if pointed out how that isnt rational thinking.
And the fear she'd hurt her kids! Anyone that would go off the way she did .. on her dad .. in the presence of her 2 yo's.. yea the thought/worry .. it dawns on you.
I am so sorry to read about the events of the last couple of days.
Was it your DD that might have had Postpartum Depression after the twins were born? I may be confusing her with someone else.
The fact that she is back on ADs doesn’t make me feel real comfortable. Certainly not a bad thing but whatever ADs she has might take what, 6 weeks to kick in? IMO if there has been talk of suicide, that’s too long.
I don’t know anything other than the depression, ADs, alcohol and talk of suicide mix scares the hell out of me.
I would be moving Heaven and Earth to get DD to the best Hospital for an evaluation.
All the Old Folks and their problems would be on the back burner to simmer, off my radar (and DHs) indefinitely.
Really, pointing fingers today as to who is telling the truth about watching kids is a mute point. That’s not the pressing issue today.
I don’t know that freeing up time for DD to hang out with friends at this point is a good idea unless there is NO drinking involved.
Again, this scares the hell out of me and I don’t scare easily.
Do they have money problems? Aren't they living for free in your son-in-law's uncle's house? What do you think they spend their money on? Like you (and most others here), I believe health insurance is a necessity.
Keep us updated, Dorker. We are all concerned!
The manic exercise, drinking, blowing up - this is a poor woman simmering and ready to explode. I wonder if these are symptoms of something else - like resentment and anger with her husband? It sounds as if he is anything but helpful - sure she can direct him - but he is the FATHER - not a "mother's helper"
Yesterday I reached out to my neighbor who had four kids under the age of 7 when my son was born. She understood all too well where your daughter was coming from. What helped her - one time a week that was set in stone (Saturday morning) where her husband took the kids - she could do ANYTHING she wanted - it was her time. She and her husband also had one date night each week so they could reconnect and keep the marriage healthy. I think grandparents came to the house to babysit and get the kids to bed. She was involved in our church and they had a mothers group that got together at a local park or in the church hall every Thursday morning for play dates.
When her husband got home - he had a few minutes to rest then HE took care of the kids while she made dinner, both of them did bath time and bed time. He also did housework and laundry as well as her. Since she had four kids - grocery shopping was a nightmare. The husband did grocery shopping or they used an on line service.
Perhaps where the work needs to begin is on the relationship between DD and SIL. He sounds pretty passive except when it is time to take care of his own children. I think the last thing anyone wants is for the marriage to break down and DD moving back home -no job, three kids, and you all having to support them.