I've posted before about in-law care-giving. Aged mother in law, lives in same town.
We are at the tail end of a visit from sister in law from several states away. Sister in law has been here for 3 weeks caring for her mother. A much welcome respite.
It had been discussed, prior to her arrival here on the scene, she would be talking it over with her mother, to try and get her mom to come up to her home, for a stay of maybe a few months.
This, in my opinion, is absolutely essential, as I am expecting twin grand-children, due in about 1 month (if they don't come sooner, as is the case a lot of times with multiples pregnancies). The expectant mother also lives locally here, and has a 4 year old daughter. I will be on that front, helping .. as much as is needed. And not on the front with mother in law and care-giving, and have made that as obvious and apparent as I know how to make it. It would be great if mother in law would agree to go to her daughter's home (several states away) for a period of a few months .. and allow me the latitude to put my energies where I want them to be, on my daughter who will have had a c-section .. and my grand-daughter (4 years old) and new twin babies.
Nothing doing. Mother in law has dug in her heels, and will not hear of it, going to stay with her daughter for any period of time.
What are her reasons?
In mother in law's defense ... her daughter ... I don't even know how to describe it. I will say that when her daughter comes here to visit, she all but breathes for her mother and if she could find a way to do that, she'd do that too. She is the most nervous nelly, never sit down - ever ... worry wart, do everything, all the time .. person that I've ever encountered.
A great example, as I was taking her to the airport yesterday for her departure, . I reached into the fridge to grab myself a bottled water and shut the fridge and turned to walk away, as I've done for all of my 50 plus years living on this earth .. and she said to me, "Oh make sure that fridge shut". WTH???? Like I don't know how to shut a fridge? That's just a small, very small slice of what she is ... how she is.
She is so very hyper-vigilant, seeing to every minute details down to it's finest most minuscule point, fine tooth comb, questioning every point along the way, "should we do thus and so, but maybe if we do thus and so, then such and such will happen, maybe we should do it thus and so .. but then so and so might happen, maybe we shouldn't do thus and so, but do "x" "y" and "z" instead, but if we don't do it that way then ..........", on and on and on and on it goes. And usually in hyper warp speed, as to every single friggin thing.
If her mother moans .. "what's wrong mother?, why did you moan, are you alright?".
Mother: "Yes, I'm fine, I was just sighing out loud".
Sister: "Why did you sigh? Are you hurting, are you sure you're alright, why are you sighing what's the matter?"
Mother: "For God's sake __________________, I was just sighing, .. calm down, I'm fine".
Sister: "Are you sure, .. because if something is wrong you need to tell me".
Mother: "Everything is fine, I'm fine".
Sister: "Are you sure, we did a lot yesterday, did we do too much, maybe we shouldn't of gone to two doctors in one day .. was that too much for you, are you too tired now, maybe we need to move those other doctor appointments so we won't have two in one day, is that too much for you, for one day .. is that why you were sighing .. what's wrong, are you sure you're alright".
Hopefully that kinda gives a little bit of a snapshot of what goes on when sister is in the ring directing things.
So in mother in law's defense.. I do get it, why she wouldn't be chomping at the bit to go to her daughter's home.
BUT ....
The only experience she has with her daughter, in the last years as mother in law has aged and been unable to go anywhere much, has been the daughter coming here, periodically, for periods of about 3 weeks at a stretch. When her daughter comes here, she moves heaven and earth for her mother and then some, and doesn't sit down, doesn't stop .. the WHOLE ENTIRE TIME.
Is there a possibility maybe (as I said to mother in law, when she expressed that isn't happening - talking to me - her going to her daughters .. ever) .. could it be possible that maybe if you would go to where she lives .. she'd be more busy managing her own life in that setting than your's and she would get out of your backside .. and not be as hyper-drive-vigilant as you experience in her, when she's here, could that be possible.
The daughter is retired, lives several states away. Does come here, generally, every few months .. and stays for a period of about 3 weeks at a stretch. I wish I could make a list of everything the daughter did when here this last time, but it would take up the whole character allotment:
I'm just on the outside but speculating that the marriage needs work first.
I totally get what you’re saying regarding the need for there to be a recognition of the problem and the desire to accept help. I have a chit-load of awe and respect for what you went through with OD.
BUT. BUT - This situation is different! And significantly so in that there are three small children involved and AT RISK! I wasnt gonna say it but... two words: Casey Anthony. And just a hop, skip and a jump two states away: Susan Smith. I’m sorry. But it does happen.
For the record - I asked about where the truth lied in all probability- as to the truth in daddy being willing to watch the kids - as to gage DD grasp on reality as to that particular situation. And wondering if that might be a place to start. Cause yeah, if daddy just doesn’t see that handing mom a diaper doesn’t count as watching the kids - he needs help opening his eyes.
Anyhoo - it sucks no matter which way you slice it and I’d sure hate to be you, Dorker. One suggestion - meant to be helpful and not snide: Get the booze locked up or out of your house all together. Not just policing DD while your there. If she wants to drink and needs a safe spot to do it with her kids in tow - don’t put it past her to sneak into your house when she knows your not home. Alcoholics or those on the road there - they get really creative when it comes to getting a drink.
Thanks Rainmom for pointing out those two tragic incidents.
He came out from the back of the house . found her seething on the sofa . her husband outside. He looked at her, . said, "I'm worried here DD . you are out of control . I'm worried to leave you here .. "
(I was out on the roads running for the biz . doing things he'd already assigned me to do or I'm sure he'd of had me go get the kids, which might've' brought on it's own set of troubles)
She said to him. 'stay the eff away from me, all of ya'll need to get the eff out of my azz and stay away from me, I'm not going to harm my kids (said snidely as if that's the most stupidest thing ever said) and I'm not going to harm myself, just stay the eff away from me, all of you .. ".
I don't know if that meant, me? I really don't know, perhaps it did.
I may run by there, at a time that I know is naptime for kiddos . and see if I can't have her ear . and do so at the risk of also being cursed out, and so forth.
One can lead the horse to water but can't make them drink.
She's never shown any propensity to be abusive to her kids .. (although it does concern me that she was screaming swear words in their presence, upsetting them . yelling) ..
That's not to say there wouldn't be a first time though, fully aware of that. Casey Anthony, Andrea Yates . the stories abound.
I will possibly run by at an hour I know she to have the kids down to nap . and try to get her ear. And hope not to be thrown out on my ear, in which case, I will now have to figure out how to get her kids from her, even more concerned.
One cannot have someone committed (believe me I know this staff all too well unfortunately) against their will, .. unless two persons can vouch for in the court house . .that they heard talk of suicide. Well YD heard it, but no one else did, and that now is being chalked up to . "old news, the AD's just need to kick in".
One can't just have the police come and take her down to the psych unit .. it doesn't work that way except in the movies.
One can try to persuade . and .. I've done that, and will continue to do so if I see it warranted, and/or . hear more of suicide ideation.
So .. I'm just kinda . treading on some shaky ground as to approaching all this as best I know how.
This isn't the first time she's shown a propensity to be really vile . I've been the recipient of that demeanor . in years past . and we even . she and I ended up in counseling where it was determined she has some anger management issues (ya think?!?!?), given some strategies as to work arounds on that issue.
Again, one can lead the horse to water, can't make em drink. If she doesn't "own" that she has a problem . one can't "MAKE HER" do a dam thing about it.
Yes they live rent free in a home that belonged to what is the now deceased dad of the stepdad to her husband. Rent free. The home . I guess . I don't know what they worked out as to deeding that home . if they did . is supposed to be theirs . at some point.
They just had to have a new roof about a few months ago, and so financed that, that is part of where their $ goes, to pay that. Along with the cell phones (they don't have a land line) . a car payment, car insurance .. cable TV .. and some dental surgery he had to have . financed, groceries. I don't know where their dollars go. they don't discuss budget with me. I know we pay him better than what he could earn working elsewhere . not by large measure . we aren't wealthy .. but he does earn more working for us.
Her husband, in my observation . being around them is good with the kids .. but she's always around. If a kid needs something . he's not real perceptive per se . but you can tell him . "hey I think she needs her diaper changed" . and he'll cart her off
He'll cart her off and change a diaper.
It's not for me to sort out whether it works in their world . as to him not being willing to watch their kids for her to get out, that's not my fight to battle.
I've been vaguely aware that's an issue under their roof, but nobody asked me to interject and I haven't done so. I have my opinions on it all, . but I've kept them to myself.
That's for them to sort through.
I have suggested to her .. "Mom's morning out" as a means to be able to have a set in stone .. time that you know will be given to you, to be child free to do as you please, . in exchange you also have to step up and take a turn watching the group of kids . it's what I did when mine were small. It helps.
Thus far, she hasn't pursued it. I told her that the "Y" has that .. but she hasn't done it. Maybe she's not interest in trading out a day .. where she then goes to watch kids, I don't know.
Her cousin shared with her (her cousin teaches pre school in a Head Start program, which is free) .. and her cousin shared with her, that as her kids are on Medicaid for their Healthcare, they are also entitled to attend a Headstart school program .. and I've offered to help her find one that might be suitable. That too hasn't been pursued.
And no, . his parents don't ever watch the twins. They did when the 6 yo was little .. but maybe 2 of them at one time .. although she has asked of them, take one of them . just one.
Their excuses are poor health ..
The mother .. says she has diabetes so bad that she has to take insulin shots in her belly daily .. as she shoves pizza and tacos in her face. I think that's a load of crap . but again, nobody asked MO.
As DD has put it, .. "Mom they take L (6 yo) every weekend (and they do) .. but they never, they have a million excuse if I ask them to take a twin . one of them, both of them . it's not fair .. but . do I want them cared for there, if they don't want them there . no .. I don't .. they obviously aren't interested. I think whatever their sick little dynamic is . they got married later in life . and so never had their own kids . I think they take L on the weekends, and play house . like she's the child they never had, and they have no interest in the twins".
That too, a dept her husband needs to speak to .. and maybe get some clarity w/his mom . but .. I can't make him. She can't either apparently.
And yes, it is setting up a scenario where eventually those 2 yo's are going to notice . "hey wait a second . why does big sister get to go see g'ma and g'pa and spend the weekend there, all the time, and we don't get to".
The hope has been as the twins get older, and not as much trouble, maybe that'll change. Or so they say . when asked about it.
Dorker, you would do well to get the twins signed up yourself, if you can.
Or - knock hubby over the head and TELL not ASK him to take care of his own darn kids for a couple of hours. Geez.
Good Luck with your visit to DD during kids nap time.
I hope she doesn’t go ballistic. Surely you learned some techniques during your counseling to try to diffuse any angry outburst.
Poor thing, she’s hurting and scared and overwhelmed and, and, and.
Wishing you much Luck today.
(((HUG)))
I agree that DD needs to find more solutions to help her cope better. There have been alot of very good suggestions posed here recently. I know that when life feels overwhelming it is hard to attempt to make that happen. I would also be concerned that she might be drinking to possible excess around her children. And as has been mentioned already if she is drinking and taking an antidepressant not only will she most likely not feel relief but could be further impaired which could create a whole other concern regarding her children.
As always I wish you strength with coping with such a new challenge.
She shut me down ultimately and basically invited me to go ahead and leave. This after a less than warm welcome.
Talked maybe a grand total of 20 mins and she was done, said as much.
Me encouraging her that I will schedule an appt and pay for it, for her to talk to a professional. She declined, same pat answer "I havent even worked my way back up to the doseage I'm supposed to be taking, give it time to work, if it doesnt then yes I will go".
Expressing to her, or trying anyway .. how really worried I am, that giving it time, might be the opposite of whats needed. Pointing out to her where her actions appear irrational .. cursung out her dad for instance.
Her explanation there .. pretty much "dad should have stayed out of what is between me and my husband's to work thru. I didn't handle it well and I have to fix it, but...I have to get my own head right first".
I explained to her that her dad only felt that specific piece of the puzzle a really easy one to fix .. husband just needs to man up, thats all. He expected her husband would take whats said and maybe respond that he would on it, talk to you. He didnt know he would get defensive and deny the problem exists at all and call you accusing that you're making stuff up
She said "I am not in a good place right now to be dealing with what is a long standing problem here and husband should realize that .. I am agitated and anxious and really sad and frustrated . Not a good time to come at me that Im not being truthful and I STAND BY what was said, IT IS A FIGHT TO GET HIM TO BE WITH THE KIDS. But thats our problem to sort thru.
On that I agreed. I asked her does she recognize and acknowledge that talk of suicide would be alarming ...
On that point she kinda smirked and responded "ya know honestly I dont know why now .. a week into all this, alarm bells went off .. I recognized that I wasnt right, was having thoughts the world might be better off if Im not here to be being impatient with my kids, my husband and agitated and short on patience. I recognized thats not normal and resumed my AD's .. now its just wait for the effective dose and thats what Im doing.
More later gotta run for a bit.
I swear I am not someone who creates my own storms and then stands in the rain and cries, as is said. That I thrive on drama, I do not. I wish I could have a peaceful existence, devoid of all the problems that seem to besiege us. More than anything.
She went on to say with some annoyance in her tone . as to the suicide piece ofo the whole thing. "I don't know why no alarm bells went off to begin with .. YD asked me . what was wrong with me that Sunday .. and I told her, that I'd gone off my AD's and that I had realized now that was not the thing to do . that I'd been sad and really depressed . and that I'd had thoughts of suicide, . you were sitting right there, you acknowledged that I said that".
Me: "I DID?!?!? I don't recall that I heard that piece of it".
DD: "You only said, "oh no that's not good" . but nothing more".
Me: Are you sure that was what I was responding to, was I dialed in on what was being said? I can't believe that I would be that aloof if that was said".
DD: "You did . that's all you said .. like it was nothing".
Me: I apologize, .. I don't know if I was distracted by the babies . or what .. but I should've been more attentive, and I apologize . .I don't recall that specific piece being mentioned out loud . .the only awareness I had . was when YD came a week later w//this info".
DD shrugging her shoulders in a doesn't matter kinda way: Doesn't matter, .. I wasn't doing it for attention .. I truly have had those thoughts that the world, my family would be better off without me . I'm grouchy, impatient . and just . mean . .and I recognize that .. so I am trying to fix it .. but .. I've had those thoughts . you remember I had those same thoughts after the birth of L (6 yo) and I went on AD's at that time, for that same reason .. this isn't new.
Me: I understand depression, .. I understand anxiety . .been there, .. I haven't had suicidal thoughts DD or plans .. but I do understand the despair you're feeling and I want to help . I'm not a professional . and there are those that do that for a living and I will help to get that in place for you . I think it would help .. I'm really afraid to do the whole "Wait" thing . "wait for the AD's to kick in, I really am .. I just am trying to gauge and I'm not a medical professional . just how volatile and a loaded freight train about to careen off the rails, all this is. We are all worried about you .. all of us, your actions . .have been irrational .. I mean . . your in laws are worried about you
(this I know because son in law shared with DH that his mom aware of this suicide ideation . had only responded "how selfish of her, doesn't she realize that she has kids that need her, a husband that loves her . how selfish).
W/my coming forth with that info that the in laws are worried, .. she responded, deer in the headlights .. "they don't even know any of this".
Me: "Your husband says they do, and they are concerned and worried .. ".
More deer in the headlight look on her face, .. I don't think she knew her in laws knew this info . .and I don't think she maybe wanted them to know it . I can only hope her husband hadn't lied to her, that he'd keep it confidential and didn't do so, or maybe he hasn't told them, and only embellished in talking to DH .. to further exacerbate his own claim that he's not guilty here (which he seems to want to do .. and he's not .. she has to find better coping mechanisms . but he could certainly help to make things better, that part .. he can do something about).
More deer in the headlight look from her.
Me: "Look DD . your husband said you hit him . that is serious stuff . you can go to jail, lose custody of your kids . you do realize that, are you aware of that .. ".
More now, w/a look of spitting nails .. and deer in the headlight look ...
DD: "I did what?!?!?!?, ,that I HIT HIM?!??!?!, he said that?!??!"
Me: That is what he told your dad yes . that you hit him . you're
you're being mean to the kids .. and that you hit him .. and you can't do that .. do you see that isn't rational behavior.
At that she shook her head in utter disgust .. "I have not hit him ... I have not! Why is he making chit up .. I haven't done that".
Me: "You haven't hit him . ever?".
DD: "Yea, maybe when we were teenagers .. and he wouldn't leave me alone . maybe then . but that was 13 years ago .. I haven't hit him . .. I'm done . I'm done talking . I'm going inside, do you want your purse, I'll bring it to you, I'm done".
With that .. she came back outside, unable to find my purse, and I acknowledged that I'd forgotten . when she went to get it, .. I'd left it locked in the car .. at that, ,she just shut the door, didn't say bye . just shut the door. That was the end of it.
Somewhere in all that discussion I did ask her about enrolling the kids .. in a program to get them .. socialized and in a setting they'd enjoy . but she would also enjoy having some set time away . and that I'd help her to get that done . .if she wants. She only responded to that, "not right now, .maybe when I feel better . right now . I just don't want to do it .. I don't have it in me". I encouaged again, that I will do it, I will find the Headstart Program . go visit it . but I'd need her to get the kids Medicaid info, and their shot records . and she again . "mom I'm not up to it right now . maybe when I feel better".
Then later, all h377 broke loose . I guess because I'd shared with her that her husband tells that she has hit him . and because I shared with her, that her husband says she's mean/impatient with the kids . and so she called her husband ... and all h377 broke loose. I get a phone call from my DH and from her DH . ."why did you tell her that? Don't you know she's not rational right now, that has sent her off the deep end even further, she is threatening to throw him out . telling that if she's that much of a monster . that he needs to leave her . that she hasn't done that .. ".
So the story once dug into . yes she did hit him . accdg to her DH . back 2 plus years ago, twin infants .. .about 3 or 4 months old . not sleeping . and him impossible to wake up .. and her .. lack of sleep. She did hurl a coffee cup at him . and hit him, 2 or so years ago, but not recently. Not right . and yes . she can go to jail for that . and lose custody of her kids . .but that's old news. Apparently.
I don't know why her husband framed it in talking to DH that "she hit me" . and didn't add that tid bit .. "it was 2 plus years ago . but she hit me". He failed to add that piece to it all. Leaving the impression it all tied in with what is currently ongoing and that's not the case.
Her husband told me, on the phone . (he was furious/livid with me for sharing that with her, that which sent her reeling even more) ... he is just befuddled by all this, that she isn't right, something is wrong, and he doesn't know what to do .. that it seems every single thing brought up is only seen by her as an intrusion (if it comes from me and her dad and an attack if it comes from him) .. that he is just stumped.
I told him . "what you can do is reiterate what I tried to get her to do .. I told her I am not a medical professional but she badly needs one . to help sort thru all this . and I will pay for it, I wasn't able to get her to agree to do so . you can reiterate what was said, that's what you can do".
I didn't say it to him . because I am exiting out of their marital issues piece of all this ... I am not a marriage counselor, I don't want to know the ins and outs of what goes on under their roof, haven't wanted to know. They need professionals to do all this not me. I didn't say it to him . but I wanted to . "what you need to do is to .. LISTEN .. she has told you without a doubt that she'd like adult time . and likely not very politely if I know her well . and she can't get it, because you won't man up .
LISTEN to what she says .. and it is .. at least that piece of what's going on with her .. it is definitely teetering her mental health . she needs professional help and I stand willing/able to help in that endeavor to get it done .. and so you need to help get her to see that .. but .. you need to man the h377 up and stop all this . denial that you are a problem on that front, because you ARE . and you are LYING and we all know it . the jig is up .. she's not covering for you anymore, on that front ..
I told him also .. I did tell him .. "and you need to do as DH advised . it's not right that your mom only takes the 6 yo .. .h377 S .. it's the twins she needs help w/not the 6 yo .. she is your mom and that's your front porch that needs sweeping you need to step up and help your mom to understand that she needs to pitch in and knock it off with declining to ever spend any time with the twins . they are her g'children just as much as L is . and it's unfair .. but not only that . that leaves little resource for DD and who can spend time with them . and take them off her hands .. I am the only resource she has . and that's not fair.
He said only: "I can't make them do it .. If they don't want to watch the twins . there's nothing I can do to make them".
Me: "Well I'm here to tell you, she needs relief and it can't all rest on my shoulders to carry .. and you're gonna have to step up more . .and your mom needs to do the same . she took L when she was a baby and beyond routinely . what's so different except that it's 2 of them at one time . so fine . take one . if you can't handle 2 at the time, take 1 . at least she can have only one to deal with or I'll take the other one, or you take the other one . but . your mom baling out . .when she doesn't have a problem and never did . .w/taking L . is chicken chit . and it needs to stop".
Will he man up and grow a spine (his mom lives about 5 mins away .. from all of us) will he grow a spine and approach his mom . likely not. But I said what I said, and I don't regret it. It needed to be said.
Told him that I offered yet again, to DD . that the kids need to be in a program . and I will help to get that set up I just need her help with their medical records and I will do it.. but she doesn't want to bother right now . reiterate that to her, as I said . and help encourage her that I will help to get it done . and she will find it helpful to have some set/routine scheduled relief . available, but I'm not the kids' legal guardian I can't do it without their records . so either you do it, get me their records . or encourage her or help her .. ".
Whats my take on him . and all of this.
I think . (but I'm not a trained professional) . I think he'd like status quo to continue . let's get past this bump in the road (as he sees it) . and move along here . and the less you guys know about our personal lives (DH and myself) the better for all of us . and we can go back to normal du jour .. and I'll help when I'm there, as I've always done . but she won't be asking to be dumping the kids on my sole care .. let's just get back to "normal".
I think . he just has a real lack of any insight . as to what that does to a person . to spend day after day after day . cartoons on the tv, and the only interaction one has is with bickering/crying/always needy kids . .all day .. every day. Has little insight into that.
I can't help him see that, but maybe a professional can. If they'll get to that juncture. I can't dx what's going on with her mental/medical issues . but maybe a professional can help sort it thru.
I think, just my observation . if he can cover up and smoke and mirrors and the dust can settle here on all this . all the better . give it time for the AD's to kick in and normal will resume . normal for him . meaning . he doesn't get the kids dumped on him .. for their sole care . not even for an afternoon. Not at all.
Obviously the problem is her's
It's her's to own . and her's to fix . and she needs to find better strategies . .(a school program would help I suspect) .. and follow through or allow that I do so. She needs to get with an MD to help sort out her depression and a counselor to talk therapy some of what causes her grief .. I can't do it. Nor do I want to.
Am I still as worried, that she'll "off" herself . .no . . not really ..
I can't say for 100% certain . that isn't planned and I just don't know it . but . I do feel comfortable that I've done all I can short of hog tying her and dragging her against her will and tying her to a therapist chair . and an MD chair .. that of course, is illegal and I can't do it. She has to be "willing" . she has to "own" what is her's to own . and be able to work on it.
I hate it that it didn't seem the dialogue was all that useful . she was still very flat, devoid of emotion for the most part .. and .. obviously annoyed that I'd come by.
In fact, I had tried to call her before I went to ask if I could come by. She didn't answer (not all that uncommon for her). I texted, "please give me a call when you have a moment". She didn't.
She did text the following: "I don't want any trouble, I just want to be left alone".
I didn't let that stop me. I didn't announce via text that I was coming . I just showed up.
She answered the door . and was obviously annoyed at my presence there. I didn't care and said so. she obviously didn't want to let me in . telling me initially .. "I'm busy", with the door not open all the way . as in . go away.
I said, "I'm not here to start trouble, I'm your mother, I love you, and I'm worried about you and I want a few minutes of your time, can I come in please".
With that she opened the door for me to come in but was obviously annoyed and didn't want me there. But I pressed on, and I'm glad I did. She was very flat mostly, devoid of any emotion . and .. pretty apparent I am just an annoyance and the sooner I'll go away and leave her be the better. And in the end, . she exited our conversation which was transpiring outside, in the carport on some yard chairs . and she exited saying she was done talking . and shut the door, left me sitting there.
I left.
Oh and her DH trying to sort out . I guess play MD . I don't know . he then began telling me (at this point I am not sorting thru it all I don't know who to believe and I don't want to be in a position to do so and said as much) . he began to talk about some of what he has seen in her, which would appear to be mania perhaps . and that he has questioned if she has Bipolar .. and that in the end, she'd been taking 2 of the anti depressants when she as only rx'd one . and that he wondered if maybe that threw her into mania . .he doesn't know. He began questioning that somewhere along the line . someone mentioned that her having had a tubal ligation . maybe that has thrown her off hormonally . maybe that has triggered some kind of bipolar .. that he'd heard it can.
I only answered "S I am not a doctor . but she dam sure needs one . help her to see that".
I have no idea if that's true . that she was doubling up on what she was supposed to be taking. Kind of could make some sense, particularly with her having taken up drinking . .like she'd done . at least when she's here on site .. and slamming back some beers or boubon and coke .. (not like her, never known her to be a drinker per se). It would make some sense that maybe the alcohol was impeeding the effectiveness of the AD's and so she maybe thought "well I'll just take 2 then". Not advisable and I'd figure her to be smarter than that, but maybe I'm wrong.
I'm also .. of the school of thought . I can't believe a thing I'm told, and it doesn't matter . I'm not a physician . all this stuff needs to be sorted thru by professionals and I've said as much . repeatedly and offered to facilitate and pay for same.
And on an another note .. got a text from IL . "oh dear mother has developed a cold". This a group text from SIL in IL. I ignored it, didn't answer. Don't know that DH ever did either.
I know you want a little peace - but I think it’s critical to know this. DD’s take on reality.
She PLANNED to have children, not twins, but that's beside the point. She struggled with depression after the birth of baby #1 and should have prepared for that pre-twins. But--water under the bridge.
She is in a precarious place right now, she needs help, and admits she does, but it highly personal and embarrassing even to accept that you have bottomed out. All this extra stuff flying in the wind--primarily her marital woes have now become fodder for the whole family---crud, what a mess.
Too many people are involved in this--and it's between DD and her DH. She threw a coffee cup at him 2 years ago and this has not been forgiven/resolved STILL?? One thing, and please don't take this personally, but it seems your families, all of them, have one heck of a time forgiving people for past misdeeds. Nothing is so petty it is not brought forth and hashed and re-hashed. Forgiveness is VERY hard to give, but so important. If your DD & her DH can't forgive each other the human qualities we all possess-there's no hope for a 'better life'. (BTW, I threw a hairbrush at DH once, many years ago and was a good enough aim to come nowhere near him--but wow--even 30 years later he will see me with a hairbrush and jokingly say "What did I do NOW?") I'm not proud of that moment, but it comes a far cry from abuse.
Too many people are involved in this.
DD needs to learn to function without alcohol on a daily basis. And her DH must learn that he is NOT the kids' babysitter--he's their FATHER. I have zero patience for men who work and think that's all they have to do. Their day ends at 5. A mother, esp a SAHM, is just on round 3 or 4 of her day by 5. She gets no rest--trust me, I did 40+ years of the SAHM with a PT job here and there and it was brutal. NONE of my 4 girls have chosen my path. And they also married men who take the word "father" as a VERB not a NOUN. (My own DH is another story and likely the reason all my girls were pretty dang picky when it came to marriage!)
I am not close to my mother and hence, never shared much along the lines of private matters--I'd complain about the kids or something, but for the most part, this was the life I'd chosen. If you could remind DD that she CHOSE this....well, you really can't.
Right now she is super volatile and I get that. She does need to let the AD's 'kick in' but a lot of really, really bad stuff can happen before they do. And if drinking while on them--she can be setting herself up for a major mental breakdown.
As far as this little family's personal dynamic--you can love and support as you have been, but you can't fix anything. DD& hubs needs counseling (and I wouldn't suggest the pastor you know. She'll feel attacked, trust me.
Recently, as I have been so ill, I was beyond frustrated with my DH for just not intuitively KNOWING what I wanted/needed. Had kind of a blow up with him and the bottom line was: he really DID NOT KNOW what I wanted from him. He's just so dense that it never just OCCURRED to him that I needed him to simply do the dishes and wipe down the kitchen after dinner. I had to literally write out a list or tell him, step by step what was needed. Once I realized I was working with a 'chimp' so to speak, things got better, to a degree. It's not in his genetic makeup, he was not 'trained' to do 'stuff' he was raised to believe a man worked and made the money and the wife did all the rest. And that was considered, in his book, to make us 'even'. He's made more money than I did, so he actually 'wins'....I hope this attitude dies out with this generation, it stinks.
I've said too much--but this whole thing makes me so sad.
Oh, sorry for MIL's cold. That's just awful.
I am sorry DD treated you as she did. You certainly have been there for her with lots of care for your grandchildren. I just hope that life sorts its self out. I just don't believe the antidepressant will be the elixir that hope is resting on if alcohol is involved.
When YD says "I don't remember her saying anything . not until we were cleaning the kitchen, the two of us". She isn't saying in a flare of .. "oh h377 naw! No she did not!".
What she is saying . is that she simply doesn't remember, .. maybe she did . but she too doesn't remember it being said, same as myself.
I'm not saying she didn't .. I don't multi task as well as I once did. I could've' been dialed out and not actively listening . to be honest .. I had the TV on . I asked her what was I doing that I'd be so aloof as that? She said, . "you were watching storm coverage on tv . and kinda preoccupied with that".
That wouldn't be like me to be that aloof on such a serious topic. BUT .. I also . was . v.e.r.y. .. preoccupied, as I do not like these storms . and am afraid of them, so I zone in . and pay attention, mightily as they talk of them out there churning and may not have been dialed into that which was said to me. I'm human.
Midkid .. I couldn't agree more! There are too many people involved in what is some difficulties in their marriage ... and I didn't enter into that, and generally stay out of their squabbles .. with the greatest of poise. They "made" it our business by making us privy ..
BUT .. I agree wholeheartedly . that of the problems which are marital related . have at it, sort it out .. you two . without us .. don't need to know, don't wanna know. But .. she also has to deal with what is at the root of this depression . and .. we will see on that one. And she also needs to figure out, once she's feeling better . what she wants to do . as to some kind of relief valve as to her kids .. and I will help her, if she wants, to seek out the appropriate setting and walk the walk of getting all that done, if she'd like, I'll do it.
But she has to sort through what works for her, to help make her existence a more enjoyable one.
And the drinking piece .. I don't know for certain as she doesn't live with me .. I don't know what goes on under her roof. I can only speak to what I've seen here . over the recent months that things have changed with her . and too much of that, .. at least . too much that would be characteristic of her anyway.
What she does at home, wouldn't be known to me.
It did come up.. I mentioned that to her, as something seen in recent times not characteristic of anything I've known of her . through the years. She said only .. "I haven't had anything to drink at all in like two weeks ... I don't generally drink at home, I can't afford it, .. I drink if I come to your house, it's free there".
So I dunno ..
personality. It could be that she’s on the wrong one. How long was she off of it? The withdrawal from some ADs make you feel like you want to kill yourself. She definitely needs to see someone. She’s not happy in her marriage and
she’s Self medicating with alcohol and even with the exercise she’s doing. A lot of ADs make you gain weight.
Maybe that’s why she quit taking them. Do you think YD
could talk to her?
So sorry you have yet another thing on your plate!
The coffee cup thing? I wouldn’t sweat that. I threw a pan of rice at my dh last Saturday night. Not just the rice - the pan too. Near miss but I’m still paying for it by finding rice EVERYWHERE!!!
On a more serious note - some of DD discrepancies bother me. The flat emotion and detachment in how she is treating you bothers me more. Not by meaning I’m insulted on your behalf - I fear the over all detachment from emotion, actions, consequences, etc.
I wish there was a way for you to check in on her and the kids... but I think if you’re too pushy - at this point after today’s “talk” - she might run. That would make matters worse. Thinking creatively... do you know anyone at 6yr olds school who might call you if she doesn’t show up for school- and keep it on the down low?
So she's claiming she's disciplined enough to only drink once a week when she comes to your home for dinner on Sunday? I would think she would be trying to drink also during her very long workweek without a break from the kids.
Has she always been totally truthful in the past?
We asked her husband, is she drinking daily at home? No, was his answer. Said that sometimes she might buy a bottle of wine and drink it, but that's more like maybe every couple of weeks, not daily, not at all.
That's really all we have to go on.
Would he cover if that were an issue, and be less than forthright? Probably yes. But .. I think as bewildered as he is presently with his wife's condition and as stumped as he is, as to how/what to do . that would surface. "Guys .. I wasn't honest .. she's been drinking .. a LOT ... like .. every day!". It hasn't.
I do know that they can't afford to keep booze on hand, not really. And beer .. they have very little discretionary income to do other things .. other than just maybe on occasion a dinner out .. but not often .. .and maybe .. just some incidentals. Mostly, they just are a family that tries to make it, financially.
I had the worst dream .. one of those dreams that takes your breath away. I woke up . and was kinda couldn't breathe it was so bad. I had to just get up . and get busy. Couldn't seem to get my mind wrapped around *it was only a dream*.
Just left with, I guess, with the bad dream I had .. and combined with just how cold/aloof she is ..
Visiting there yesterday, unannounced and .. I can't think of another time that I'd of gone to her house and her only crack the door .. as if I'm a stranger selling something she doesn't want, and wants me to go away ... and then announce annoyed "I'm busy". In other words, .. go away. I didn't of course. But . just so cold/aloof.
She did of course, sit down to talk with me, .. for maybe a total of about 20 mins before abruptly ending the discussion and basically leaving me alone . and going inside. I guess, I could've sat there, alone in her carport .. and I'd of just been alone. She was done.
I left.
But the whole time, .. the tone/demeanor .. so cold, so aloof. It's almost as if you're trying to talk to someone who you have so wronged that they cannot possibly care to hear a word you have to say. I haven't done anything, of course, for her to be mad at me. So it's really hurtful, and I try to put it on the shelf of, .. she's not right, not right now ... she just needs to get better.
Her tone/demeanor was one of .. just so obvious .. she wished I'd just go away ..
So hurtful.
I'm going on with my day .. and will just leave her be ..
Nice pics of her and family last night on social media, smiling faces, all of them, at some function at their 6 yo's school. Smiling/happy faces. Hard not to take it personal in a sense of .. "well gee, that glib demeanor and so distant and sad and sullen that I see .. I guess that's just directed at me and her dad .. cuz .. there they all are, .. all of em smiling and happy and joyful ... that's not at all what we experience being in her midst. Maybe it's just a facade .. these young people live their lives on social media, taking a picture every time they burp .. and posting it. So maybe it was all a facade, to try to make the best of life as they know it right now, and attend a function at their daughter's school .. and not shelve and wallow in the misery ongoing there. If so, hooray . at least some normalcy is being pushed through.
I've got a funeral to attend today (family friend) .. and a full day beyond that, moving on.
I take anything I see on FB with a chunk of salt.
DD probably posted the pics she did b/c she really does want to be 'OK' and also to tell you, in a not so subtle way, she's dealing with stuff. The attention she craves in 'likes' are stroking that sad little ego. I wouldn't put too much thought into it.
Can you tell my family doesn't really 'do' FB? We have a private group me where we post the stuff we care about and only a few people are privy to it.
Nothing new to report. Other than, .. got a text from DD yesterday afternoon late "would like to come by to *clear the air* on some things if you and dad are available".
We weren't "available" and I said as much.
I was at church, my turn up to bat, to cook church supper, so in the throes of that, and DH would soon be joining to partake of same. Asked of her, if she wants, . come over after we get home from church supper, after you've put the kids to bed.
She only replied that she'll do it another time, has been trying to get to bed earlier, and so would be going to bed when the kids do. Hadn't heard anything else, . and her hubby .. shared nothing more on the whole ongoing saga . and that's as it should be. Whatever "their" issues are, and how they may or may not be exacerbating DD's mental health stability issues . is not on us to sort thru . nor do I care to do so. He said nothing more, thankfully.
And so this morning, I get a text from DD: "When you're able to, we need to go shopping for the twins .. they are outgrowing all their clothes".
(before anyone says anything . let me preface the above with the fact, . how very convenient . (yes) .. that she wants to call upon the very person she has treated with such cold and aloof demeanor in the last weeks and months and the very person who would fund such an endeavor in a dad that has been cursed up one side and down the other by her . how very convenient of her .. yes awareness on my part on that . very much so. But also .. I will say this .. that has been something she and I have enjoyed thru the years .. as she had the very first g'child .. going to consignment stores, and/or sales . when the kids needed clothes . so it's not .. unprecedented that would be a topic that would be popping up. But yes, .. odd timing on her part . and .. while I absolutely LOVE to spend my time . shopping for the kids . it's a hobby of mine .. LOL .. and consignment or otherwise . and I don't have a problem doing so .. I don't know that spending any time with her, . at the demeanor she's exhibited recently . is anything I'm just chomping at the bit to do).
I only answered, "that'd be nice". Left it at that.
She then texted, .. "S (her husband) wants me to wait to sit down with you guys, until he can also be a part of that, .. maybe we'll shoot for Saturday evening, if that works for you guys".
I responded, "I'll check with your dad and let you know".
That was that.
There has been a purposeful . .exit that scene and all the drama on both DH's and my part. I'd gone to talk to her where she gave me all of about 20 mins of her time, and then promptly exited the conversation .. and .. a basic invitation for me to depart, after her cold and aloof . and so .. I have left her alone . and DH . the only contact he's had with their entity has been in the work environment in that he employs her husband.
As I've said, . whatever their marital issues and how or if that somehow exacerbates her mental stability is not for me to sort thru, .. I'm not a trained medical professional . and whatever he mental instability is rooted in ... be that marital issues, or chemical imbalance, .. I'm not a medical professional.
Her behavior and demeanor . while I realize one can get depressed/agitated/aggravvated . short on patience, .. so forth, . .has been wholly not acceptable. Once I ruled out that she didn't seem in imminent danger . or her kids . I exited the whole thing.
Whether or not she or he will seek out professional help (I sure hope to the heavens they do) .. and make themselves accessible to getting it all dialed in on, .. out of my scope. I've sure offered to help facilitate . pay for it, .. sort thru how to get to it, etc .. but I can't make it happen.
I think DD may be a little worried after her behavior the other day that she's going to lose the only babysitter she has (you), and so wants to clear the air.
Had already vowed that I'd have to navigate those waters if that's what it's come to .. as to how to continue enjoying my g'kids . but do so from arm's length from DD's treatment.
We will see on that front. As to trying to get with them on Saturday evening .. DH had said this morning, when I informed him that DD had texted wanting to "clear the air" (her words) . .DH said of it all, "she isn't sorry . not the way she has behaved .. we're only as much use to her as whatever is her latest need, she better find a way to show some real remorse and sorrow for how she treated me .. my b'chit meter is set and ready".
So I've yet to propose to him . "she would like to talk to us on Saturday evening" . see what his plans are. We are approaching hunting season . and so .. it wouldn't be unheard of he may be gone this weekend, to hunt, and I won't argue that with him. Not even an inkling of it.
As DH put it, .. "she's bit the hand that feeds her, .. if I'm not convinced that she somehow has found true remorse and a way to fix what's wrong with her, she can go on".
I kinda agree.
Can you cut this lady some slack? As someone who has had severe depression--and acted in ways I am not proud of....asking forgiveness of those I offended during the 'bad days' helped. Even if she doesn't ASK--just forgive her. You're the parents and you need to act like them. Means you forgive without reservation and go forth as if the 'problem' was never a thing.
She reached out to you to go shopping--I see that as a sign she wants to communicate and clear the air. Accept that and don't dwell on the bad, OK?
Wait and see what she and DH have to say, Likely they just want to clear the air and possibly apologize (don't expect it) and maybe they'll ask for some financial aid so she can get the help she needs. Until you have that talk, you won't know.
Her AD's may be kicking in now--let's hope so. Please be gentle with her. Mental illness, even in this 'enlightened day' is still such a stigmatized thing.
I find it hopeful that she and her DH want to see you 'together'. Let's hope your DH finds it in his heart to make time for them.