I've posted before about in-law care-giving. Aged mother in law, lives in same town.
We are at the tail end of a visit from sister in law from several states away. Sister in law has been here for 3 weeks caring for her mother. A much welcome respite.
It had been discussed, prior to her arrival here on the scene, she would be talking it over with her mother, to try and get her mom to come up to her home, for a stay of maybe a few months.
This, in my opinion, is absolutely essential, as I am expecting twin grand-children, due in about 1 month (if they don't come sooner, as is the case a lot of times with multiples pregnancies). The expectant mother also lives locally here, and has a 4 year old daughter. I will be on that front, helping .. as much as is needed. And not on the front with mother in law and care-giving, and have made that as obvious and apparent as I know how to make it. It would be great if mother in law would agree to go to her daughter's home (several states away) for a period of a few months .. and allow me the latitude to put my energies where I want them to be, on my daughter who will have had a c-section .. and my grand-daughter (4 years old) and new twin babies.
Nothing doing. Mother in law has dug in her heels, and will not hear of it, going to stay with her daughter for any period of time.
What are her reasons?
In mother in law's defense ... her daughter ... I don't even know how to describe it. I will say that when her daughter comes here to visit, she all but breathes for her mother and if she could find a way to do that, she'd do that too. She is the most nervous nelly, never sit down - ever ... worry wart, do everything, all the time .. person that I've ever encountered.
A great example, as I was taking her to the airport yesterday for her departure, . I reached into the fridge to grab myself a bottled water and shut the fridge and turned to walk away, as I've done for all of my 50 plus years living on this earth .. and she said to me, "Oh make sure that fridge shut". WTH???? Like I don't know how to shut a fridge? That's just a small, very small slice of what she is ... how she is.
She is so very hyper-vigilant, seeing to every minute details down to it's finest most minuscule point, fine tooth comb, questioning every point along the way, "should we do thus and so, but maybe if we do thus and so, then such and such will happen, maybe we should do it thus and so .. but then so and so might happen, maybe we shouldn't do thus and so, but do "x" "y" and "z" instead, but if we don't do it that way then ..........", on and on and on and on it goes. And usually in hyper warp speed, as to every single friggin thing.
If her mother moans .. "what's wrong mother?, why did you moan, are you alright?".
Mother: "Yes, I'm fine, I was just sighing out loud".
Sister: "Why did you sigh? Are you hurting, are you sure you're alright, why are you sighing what's the matter?"
Mother: "For God's sake __________________, I was just sighing, .. calm down, I'm fine".
Sister: "Are you sure, .. because if something is wrong you need to tell me".
Mother: "Everything is fine, I'm fine".
Sister: "Are you sure, we did a lot yesterday, did we do too much, maybe we shouldn't of gone to two doctors in one day .. was that too much for you, are you too tired now, maybe we need to move those other doctor appointments so we won't have two in one day, is that too much for you, for one day .. is that why you were sighing .. what's wrong, are you sure you're alright".
Hopefully that kinda gives a little bit of a snapshot of what goes on when sister is in the ring directing things.
So in mother in law's defense.. I do get it, why she wouldn't be chomping at the bit to go to her daughter's home.
BUT ....
The only experience she has with her daughter, in the last years as mother in law has aged and been unable to go anywhere much, has been the daughter coming here, periodically, for periods of about 3 weeks at a stretch. When her daughter comes here, she moves heaven and earth for her mother and then some, and doesn't sit down, doesn't stop .. the WHOLE ENTIRE TIME.
Is there a possibility maybe (as I said to mother in law, when she expressed that isn't happening - talking to me - her going to her daughters .. ever) .. could it be possible that maybe if you would go to where she lives .. she'd be more busy managing her own life in that setting than your's and she would get out of your backside .. and not be as hyper-drive-vigilant as you experience in her, when she's here, could that be possible.
The daughter is retired, lives several states away. Does come here, generally, every few months .. and stays for a period of about 3 weeks at a stretch. I wish I could make a list of everything the daughter did when here this last time, but it would take up the whole character allotment:
No doubt MIL has cognitive issues, based upon the past 2 years of behavior documented here, BUT, it also sounds like she may possibly be over-medicated, which happens a LOT in NHs. Kinda worrisome hearing out badly she was "out of it."
cant blame YD for comparing her boyfriends grandmother to her own grandmother. I feel for her. It’s hard to see someone in better health & staying active when your own loved one can no longer do the same. It’s something that I struggle with myself when I look at my own parents at 71 and the poor condition they are in for their age. It hurts seeing other grandparents their age interacting with their grandchildren and being active with them. But I know that we don’t all have the same genetics and some people have led healthier lifestyles. If my parents had been smokers and perhaps not been drinkers, they wouldn’t be so bad off right now. Smoking is the direct cause of several of their ailments. So on that note, I sympathize with YD and I know how she feels. It’s not a good feeling. It’s hard to accept.
Makes sense really . they've only been in existence a little over 2 years . and in that 2 years .. her brain has slipped further and further away.
She asked me one day when I was there .. "so OD how is your dad doing?" . referring to me as "K" (OD's name). I didn't even correct her, I just answered the question as to my dad.
I told your son the other day when he was here .....
I dont have any sons. She is referring to DH is who she's talking about.
I dont bother correcting her. Doesn't matter. I know who she is talking about.
At least MIL did have a visit with OD. Probably not as meaninful as there was much hullabaloo, 14 in total there. But she has now seen OD finally.
And probably better in that setting for each OD & MIL . No opportunity for depressing EOL dialogue.
The whole debacle with the lotions and eye drops .. and getting a MD order for those to occur daily for MIL, not so impossible at all. MD wrote the orders the very next day.
Since that time, ... SIL will ask of her mom "did they come put lotion on you, put your eyedrops in?".
MIL responds .. "No .. they gave H her eyedrops .. but they didn't give me any, and no one has been here to put lotion on me".
SIL dialing down on that ... staff say they are, putting eyedrops in .. 2x's daily as directed . .and is noted in the chart accordingly .. and the lotion .... that they report, .. the LPN comes and is sent away by MIL .. "now I can do that, I will take care of that, you needn't worry with that".
So... it's not that "no no one came to put lotion on me" .... it's not the "No I told them not to worry with that". It's that they are coming, offering . but .. she is sending them away.
Much like the whole debacle months back . wherein .. she didn't seem to be getting her shower on designated days . .and yet if you ask her ... they aren't offering . if you ask staff .. they are offering . she declines.
So, as SIL put it, . "you just can't count on her (MIL) for any clarity, she just doesn't remember, they are charting it, that they put these eyedrops in, I ask her and she says no they didn't come, came and gave H her eyedrops but didn't give Mom her's, but the chart reflects they are doing so .. she just doesn't remember, and the lotion .. they are coming to offer that, but she sends them away telling them she'll do it. She won't though, she won't remember to do it".
Said she'd talked to one of the charge nurses there and the charge nurse said that it's difficult with MIL, as she's so fiercely independent and doesn't want anyone to "do for her" .. opting to "do it herself".
So, it's interesting that SIL is seeing, maybe for the first time, with more clarity, that her mom's mental function is so compromised, asking her if she got her eyedrops, did she get her shower, did she get moisturizer, counting on an answer with much validity is really pretty useless.
Thank goodness. There was a time, not too long ago, that SIL would've been ready to move her mom, at the hands of what she'd deem incompetent staff, and liars . as staff .and such. Not even an inkling of a notion that maybe her mom, is just not able to remember these things. That the staff are indeed being attentive to that which they should be doing but your mom just doesn't remember. She'd of been all too willing to move her mom, thinking the next stop is gonna be better, when all along, it's not even the staff, it's her mom's memory and SIL's failure to recognize that.
Finally, maybe that is becoming a little more of the focus than it has been in the past. Thankfully.
SIL telling me that there'd be some discussion there, I guess . just conversational .. Shingles vaccines .. and that SIL had stated she wished her insurance paid for that newer Shingles vaccine but it doesn't, and that MIL had weighed in, "Well I've never had Shingles".
SIL: I could not believe it, I thought I'd fall out from just shear, how in the h377 could you forget .. you had Shingles!
When MIL stayed with SIL several months back, MIL got a terrible/horrible case of Shingles, on her buttocks, in her lady parts, and traveled on up into her bladder, and she had to be catheterized (SIL the one dealing with the catheter and emptying it), and SIL the one dealing with lotions and potions, to treat this horrible case of Shingles.
As SIL put it talking to me: "She has no memory of all that, H377 I wish I didn't .. I remember ever grueling second of it, but she doesn't remember it at all, she'd tell you she's never had Shingles. I was just shocked when she said that, reminded her of what we went thru . and she only said, "Really? I don't remember that. Are you making things up". That was her mom's response.
Look what all it has taken, the toll . thru the few years I struggled with all this.
Those words of her's .. MIL's .. as she sends the LPN away ... lotioning declined. "No, now you needn't worry with that, I'll handle that" .. and doesn't do so.
Those words ... those words.
Words I heard so often .. as I'd beckon the next of kin in all this, her son and her daughter .. "she claims she will do it, she knows what she needs to do and she will do it .. BUT SHE DOESN'T ..................... she ISN'T able to do it".
And to the argument of "she's just so fiercely independent .. she just doesn't want *others* involved, .. she just wants to do for herself".
Those same words ... "I'll do it myself" being spoken now to staff .. and it being charted/documented as to what's offered to her .. and what she declines .. and offers up . she'll do for herself. But the *recognition* .. that she isn't capable .. .
F.I.N.A.L.L.Y. after all this time!
And h377 for that matter, it was just a matter of a few weeks back that SIL was so ready to cart her mom to site B .. as "she's not happy there, and I'm not sure the staff is as attentive as they should be" ...
All the while I'm over here saying .. "I don't think unless there is something egregious ongoing .. it's worth uprooting her . new staff/new site/new people .. that will upend any progress made, .. and there is no Utopia ANYWHERE SIL .... none of these places are gonna be pie in the sky land of rainbows and sunshine, she's not gonna be happy anywhere".
And now .. now .. finally .. the dawn is beginning to crack to some light on the topic .. "maybe mom just doesn't remember".
I could almost cry tears of joy, at the mere fact there is recognition for what "is" instead of what "we wish" could be. It's enormous!
I was on that page . way back when . that her assertion that she will do for herself (but yet doesn't . isn't doing so) is rooted in some cognitive impairment and said so . .and urged countless times, to get that evaluated . and no . no it was a UTI .. no .. she's gonna have some memory issues, she's old.
Screaming from every roof top .. "but she isn't taking care of herself, and it is a LOAD I cannot continue to carry .. her assertion she'll do for herself .. is baseless . she can't".
The fight it's taken ..
And finally .. finally a glimmer of light that it's seen for what it "IS" .. instead of what is "wished" for in whirligigs and tops spinning and rabbit holes and gadgets/devices, etc etc etc.
These 2 issues--the eyedrops and the lotion--she may WANT to be independent and there are plenty of things in which she CAN be independent--but the eyedrops and the lotion don't fall in that category. They offer, she says no and they walk off and her eyes get dry and miserable. Her skin cracks and bleeds, requiring a LOT more work from the staff.
These a MEDICAL issues, not primping and fussing her looks. She NEEDS these done.
Maybe the staff can't 'push' but I'd find that surprising. If she doesn't get her medical care, she will be a crabbier patient.
When I did CG for a job, my client had the driest skin--and so many awful looking varicose veins--so she NEEDED this special cream but was so embarrassed about her legs I'd just glove up and say "Anne, lets get your legs up on the recliner and I'll rub your feet for you'--she'd balk a little, but within minutes she was purring, practically. Having a foot rub at any age feels good. I NEVER commented on the veins--she did, once, saying "have you ever seen such ugly legs?" to which I replied "They just say you've had and active busy life and 6 big babies. They're a badge of HONOR!" we never talked about them again.
It wasn't and OPTION to say no. Same with her meds. Just, this is what you take at 10 am--so take it and in 30 minutes you can have that cookie.
MIL's NH is probably overloaded and understaffed. She is asked, she refuses and they move on.
Sadly, in places like this, for the 'forgetful'--a lot gets left on the table and not done and there's not a whole lot you can do. SIL sending the barrage of daily phone calls is pointless. Hopefully she can see that, but it's doubtful.
Yes, you COULD assign one family member per day to pop by and make sure these things are done. That's a possibility, but I don't see this family pulling together to do it.
Things are "better" than last year--so pat yourself on the back for that. It's happened so slowly it doesn't feel 'real'---but you have gotten a lot done and if SIL is starting to see the light--glory be!!
How's the cold? All you need right now, right?
The whole "now it's time to" worked with my mom most of the time.
DEFINITELY lost cog abilities.
Will THAT prompt SIL to have her evaluated?
Wish I'd of thought to say that to SIL, .. not only drive that piece of it home to SIL .. and how that manifests in what the end result(s) will be, but also get the issue addressed, at least .. better than is presently the case.
Perfect opportunity when SIL said the words herself, . "I'm not real sure that anything I ask her anymore can be answered w/much validity".
Ya think?
Yes, indeed, .. that does need to be an issue that staff just take it on, headlong and a suggestion of "Oh but Mrs ___ if we don't do it, Dr. So & So will get after us".
I still need to if it comes up again. And I will, make that suggestion.
Mid, as to my cold .. omgoodness! First off, I am n.e.v.e.r. sick .. just not one that gets plagued with the likes of a cold or sore throat or stomach bug . not a lot.
But this cold, or whatever the heck it is has laid me low, badly.
In fact, . this past Saturday .. I was feeling so lousy and wishing I'd of gone to the doc .. on normal biz days (my MD is not open during wknds so it would've been a doc in the box . as an option .. didn't wanna sit thru a wait there). Then .. I remembered my insurance now offers a telephone visit with a doc . via video conference. Since I haven't run a fever at all, I figured . easy peasy . just call that service, . .. maybe get an rx of an antibiotic . or something to steer this thing in another direction.
Not sure how helpful that whole tele-doc thing is . in the end. I guess for your run of the mill . whatever . maybe so.
His dx .. a "viral" sinus infection . thus no antibiotic .. but did rx something for this incessant non stop .. annoying as h377 cough that WILL not go away and impedes any ability to sleep whatsoever. As well as a nasal spray to help with nasal congestion.
Has it helped? I dunno .. maybe . some. Instructions were if not better in 7 days seek a visit with your PCP.
Maybe I should've just forgone all that and gone to the doc .. and let them do the typical . look in the nose/ears/throat so forth. But that's not what I did .. and I have been so so sick. Biggest problem, more than the cough and any other thing has been the fatigue . bone crushing . fatigue. Maybe from lack of sleep from .. COUGHING ALL THE TIME.
I sound awful, ... hoarse . nasally .. and feel about as bad as I sound.
3 or 4 days in now with the meds rx'd by the tele doc . and so we'll see . if not better by the end of the week, I'll maybe squeeze in to see a NP if my doc isn't available.
Highly unusual for me .. colds don't knock me down. I so rarely am plagued with one, but I don't ever remember that I've been knocked down by one .. I just keep on keepin on.
Not this time.
Needless to say I'm staying away from twins .. 6 yo . their family .. as well as SIL .. who might carry this to MIL . and my dad. So . pretty isolated .. and trying to nurse myself back to being normal.
That is certainly progress - hard fought for and only won when Dorker stepped off the carousel... TWO YEARS AGO. Evidently, SIL is a slow learner.
I wonder now, how long or if ever - SIL will begin to see the light regarding saying things like “Now mom, certainly you remember when you...” when clearly MIL does not remember when and that no amount of SIL dangling little prompts - tidbits of hints - will jar the memory loose.
MILs “Are you making things up?” could turn into something less cordial - that is, I suppose- if MIL can remember that SIL is continuing to challenge and point out to MiL that her mind is going. Kind of a no win cyclic thing.
Baby steps, I guess. Baby steps...
It's on record. And SIL is starting to realize that it might be a problem....
Repeat for cream. Staff hand jar lid off to her. Nope? Staff do. Done.
I do same with Mum. Sometimes there is just too much "do you want..?" especially with dementia. Just hand the item over & see what the response is. Comb, toothbrush, razer even.
Not saying take away choices or independence - just seeing what is possible with actions instead of words.
If not already, then maybe soon the staff will need to do this with showers too. Mention wash time, head into bathroom, turn shower on & see if she starts taking nightwear off from habit. Staff should be well used to using these 'tricks'.
SIL has been asking her, .. are they administering the eye drops. Her answer would indicate they come to do her roomie's eye drops . but no . no one comes to do MIL's.
Yet, when SIL checks with staff .. indeed they have charted the 2 x's daily that it has in fact been done.
Obviously MIL and Dementia, she forgets. Interesting she does remember them having come to administer eye drops to the roomie, and reports same, but denies they've come to do so for her, . when in fact, the chart indicates it's been done .. consistently, daily, 2 x's a day as ordered.
As to the lotions/moisturizer .. that it's reported .. the LPN shows up to do so . .only to be sent away by MIL who tells LPN "oh now you needn't worry with that, I can do it .. I'll do that". LPN notes chart accdg'ly .. waltzes away .. and more to the point .. that question if posed by SIL to MIL .. MIL reports "no . nobody came" .. yet the chart indicates the LPN offered and that the resident indicated she'd do so on her own.
I like others here, agree, .. it shouldn't be left to her .. that should be . and I don't know why it isn't . noted that she has been found to have "moderate" dementia.
What does that mean to these people? Why is it that a layman can determine that's going to impede MIL's memory to take care of that task (not to mention her motor skills .. somewhat lacking) . why is it a layman can determine that will be an issue . and yet medical staff all too happy to answer with something akin to, "ok, have a nice day" and off they go.
I know they're busy and tasked with too many residents and too many needs .. I know all that.
But seems to me, someone with even a modicum of medical knowledge . working in a SNF . should be more knowledgeable that the patient .. with dementia .. will tell ya all kinds of things .. that may or may not be a possibility as to what they themselves can achieve .. and just .. do it .. just do it. Just a simple "yes well Mrs ____ we really have to do this ourselves, .. doc says so .. let's get this done", and be done with it. Why leave it up to her, . and then it doesn't get done . and more skin breaks .. and bleeding (blood thinners) .. and then bandaids and soiled sheets, pj's . etc . from bleeding. Just .. handle it.
Makes no sense to me.
It does appear that is what is ongoing. They are in fact doing the eye drops . but MIL will tell ya . no nobody ever came. They are not . doing the lotion ... opting to defer to her "I'll take care of it myself" . and it does not happen.
I was mentioning that to SIL yesterday late in conversation as she plans to go there today .. to try on more shoes on MIL ...
Suggested to her, she may wanna talk to them, pointing out that moderate dementia dx . and how that impacts her abilities, etc.
SIL: "yea, . I need to tell them to just do it .. just don't take her at her word, just do it . just tell her, don't ask, just tell her .. but it's almost like . I mean it would be the CNA's that I need to get their attention on this .. and .. h377 how do you talk to all the CNA's .. have a meeting with all of them ... and the CNA's change .. they rotate them around, one week it's a set group of CNA's . next week it's another CNA group rotated in from another wing . how do you even achieve that".
Me: That's not up to you, the MD ordered it, . and just like they are required to administer meds .. at designated times .. same thing with this .. they need to be accessing her chart, .. and whatever is indicated as to her needs for meds, or topical creams or whatever, .. it needs to be done .. that's not up to you, to try to get word to each and every staff member that interfaces with her.
SIL does seem to have more recognition now for the fact her mom is not a reliable resource as to the day's events there. Will she stop depending upon her mom to relay such info? Doubtful, she'll keep asking. And then chase her elbow around her azz ..
And she should bring donuts or cookies for the whole staff. Lots and lots of them.
in a flurry of phone calls, etc . chasing down .. the why's and whatfor's . when it would make a whole lot more sense to just dial in on staff . and charts and get reliable info there. Rabbit holes though, her specialty.
She does seem to have somewhat more a realistic view than has ever been the case prior . that her mom . and info from her, .. usually not all that valid.
As in yesterday, SIL purposely stayed away from there yesterday as she'd run into the PT director the day before, and had been told by the PT director they'd be evaluating her mom the next day (which would've been yesterday) for .. resuming on site PT services (rather than the restorative she'd been remanded to) . .and that OT and speech would also be evaluated (as per our request at the Care Plan Meeting). So SIL purposely stayed away .. knowing they'd be doing evals . and she wanted to not be in the way of all that.
So then (of course, why not . her mom is a reliable resource) .. "Mom did PT and OT and Speech come do an evaluation today".
Her mom: "No . nobody ever came".
But then in another sentence, as she and her mom talked, . her mom tells her that they are going to be resuming on site PT . and returning her to PT services in the in house site there.
SIL to her mom: "I thought you said they never came".
MIL to SIL: "They never did, but somebody told me, somebody I don't know . somebody I've never worked with before, that I'd be re-starting PT".
SIL to me: "So I don't know . I mean . she gets confused . who knows, I might get there and find out they did come and do an evaluation . and she just forgets".
I think SIL . who has to be busy busy busy all the time, and spends a good deal of time chasing her tail, much like a dog would do .. makes more work for herself than I would.
I think if it were me, I'd bypass her altogether (the mom) .. and just note to myself . in a post it or whatever . the next visit . go visit the desk . and ask them to pull the chart, .. and I'd ask them .. "did they get by to do an evaluation on PT, OT and Speech, what were the findings", .. "and on this whole piece about her needing moisturizing lotions . really need you guys to note the chart, with respect to her Dementia, . she'll tell you she'll take care of it, but she doesn't . she forgets .. need you guys to just tell her . tell her the doc says so . that they have to do it, staff has to .. and just do it, don't ask her .. she'll decline if you ask . just do it".
And then go visit the mom and talk about the movie you saw on tv . or talk about the gorgeous weather, or reminisce about old times . or whatever ..
But moving .for SIL . from c'taker and arranger of all things MIL's well being . and doing so .. nixing her mom out of the equation .. is a piece that seems to be a real struggle for SIL . who is of the ilk to stay busy busy busy busy . all the time . some of it, chasing her own tail .. unnecessarily.
Not the way I'd do things . but if I've learned one thing throughout all of this saga .. it's that .. the way I do things .. makes sense to me . and most anyone else I talk to .. but not so with regard to MIL's next of kin. Thus .. I stay on the periphery and don't drive myself up a tree at the head scratching preposterous way things go most of the time.
Barb I think mentioned a book might have been Can’t We Talk About Something More Pleasant. The book with funny illustrations. Those of us that hadn’t heard about it googled it and giggled. We talked about your situation and what the illustrations would be in your book.
The Shingles conversation would be one I suggest illustrated. SILs hair standing on end when she realized MIL didn’t remember her horrible case of Shingles.
Yet SIL expects MIL to remember who’s on first, etc with PT, Speech Therapy, etc.
I may be confused, I usually am, but at Purgatory, are there different wings for different levels of care?
It does seem the lotion is a more pressing matter than shoes but did it dawn on SIL to buy a bigger size rather than search continually for a size 10 that She can stuff MILs feet into?
Shoes were a problem for my Mom. She insisted on sneakers. But because of bunions, past foot surgeries and weird toes it just got too hard to fit her. Finally, after she was no longer walking I got her some knock off Uggs and a size or two larger.
We are not in a cold climate but Mom’s feet were always cold so she loved them.
I dont expect that type type of shoe would be acceptable to SIL but sometimes you just have to go with what works.
That's not at all what she looks like in real life . but that just about describes her as to her actions.
I needn't say anymore, when you hear this latest, as to the PJ's.
SIL .. in the persuit of pj's .. (tops and bottoms) .. presently .. MIL wears her Victoria Secret pj tops and bottoms (no not the sexy lingerie, .. just basic tops and bottoms . button up tops) .. and your basic cotton or flannel .. that sums up her choice for pj's.
Buttons have become problematic for MIL. I asked (yet to be answered) . "have you seen whether maybe it's possible she's able to slip in and out of that pj top without buttoning and unbuttoning?".
Of course, that wouldn't be seen to .. before rushing about to dept stores to try to obtain more suitable tops/bottoms of pj's that have no button up feature.
There again I cite .. what makes perfect sense to me .. *why in the name of Christmas run around in every direction in pursuit of replacement pj's .. when .. maybe .. ???.... don't know . you haven't tried it .. she can easily slip easily in and out of that top without buttoning and unbutton . try it ... maybe it works . then you can save your legs/energy for some other endeavor . that doesn't involve an exhaustive search thru dept stores in every direction* ................ but hey . what makes perfect sense to me ... apparently not so .. in the case of SIL.
So off she goes, . two different dept stores . finds some pj tops and bottoms . and more to the point, tops that don't have buttons . they just slip over the head.
What is SIL doing now?
Taking them back.
Why?
MIL doesn't like the "feel" of them. They are that jersey material .. not cotton, not flannel.
Me: SIL did you ever try with her pj tops she already has, .. remember ... I'd suggested seeing if she can slip in and out of those without buttoning and unbuttoning . did you ever try that?
SIL: "No . I need to do that".
SIGH
Will she?
Not likely no . she'll run around to more dept stores, in pursuit of cotton/flannel that pulls over, and doesn't button . and haul it there .. and find out .. it either .. A) doesn't fit . or B) MIL doesn't like them .. and haul them back .. and still not have tried, at least, to see if she can slip in and out of that top with buttons.
Sheesh!
And no, MIL has zero ability to .. oh I dunno ... a normal functioning person might just say . oh well, the material isn't the *feel* that I prefer . but .. I'll live with it, .. she sure went to a lot of trouble to get these for me.
No . not MIL . she's too far gone to have any realization around what all it takes as to running hither and yon to get just the right whatever it is.
She in fact, said to SIL, . "Why don't you just come get me and we'll go shopping for these things".
Fortunately SIL . in her newfound recognition for her mom's limitations . and her ability to cart her mom around to do so .. just sloughed that off in conversation with her mom with a "yea we'll do that sometime" (no intent to do that).
The shoes?
I told her, .my words: "SIL I was looking it up on Google one day .. shoes for people with edema" .. every selection that comes up . has velcro .. I know that she doesn't like velcro . kinda unsightly to her .. and so that's not her preference, but that may be what it's come to at this point.
Told her that.
Yet . the hunt is still on .. as she goes from dept store to dept store, to find just the right . slip on type shoe ..
I'll clue ya . her feet .. are pretty big .. not just the size 10 they are (mine are size 10 so I know big feet) .. but they are meaty size 10 . with the edema and such. And no . that hasn't been addressed ..
That topic . the oversize feet .. my suggestion . "you need to maybe talk w/them
about the Lasix . what dosage is she on .... her feet are so oversized .. I know I've seen em look a h3lluva lot worse in times in the past ... but they are really pretty big .. ".
SIL: "I should . yea I should ask them about that .. but .. I know it's such a hardship on her, her having to go to the bathroom all the time".
The shoes she brought there, the day I was there, . she'd bought 3 different shoes . and one of them a size 10 . but the other two size 11's .. and even then . couldn't squeeze the meaty feet into the shoes.
I tried them on . since I'm a size 10 (thinking . ok maybe these things run small) . no .. they fit me fine . the size 11's . too large for my feet.
For me, it would come down to . maybe something that looks ortho in shoewear and velcro . .. point being .. "function over beauty".
But .. as I've described of SIL . she makes way more work for herself than I think is necessary. But . long as she isn't asking me to run around and chase rabbit holes .. and she did at one time .. and I did it . at one time, she can run herself ragged if she wants.
As far as shoes......my MIL was 4’9” and for as long as I knew her, she bought size 7 or 7.5 shoes because she had very wide feet and bunions. Had she not had genetically bad feet (Frankenstein feet, I kid you not. My husband has them too. Very wide square feet lol), her size length wise would have been no bigger than a 5! Anyway she would buy sketchers brand sneakers, they come in W width. If SIL hasn’t tried sketchers, maybe a pair of those will work? They do make slip ons.
Who diets in their 90’s? She was already too thin. The doctor told her to gain weight. That was a thrill for her to hear the doctor say that she was too thin.
Still, horrible edema. No shoes ever fit her. Men’s shoes in the same size runs larger. I could never tell her they were men’s shoes. She’s too vain.
Once a salesman in a nice shoe store made a mistake and told mom she could only fit in men’s shoes. She bought them because they fit and were comfortable but she couldn’t get past the fact that they were men’s shoes. Really? No one else even knows that they are men’s tennis shoes. She returned them.
I bought plenty of nice women’s shoes well over $100 for her and they sat in her closet. She was complaining of her feet constantly hurting and I wanted her to be comfortable.
I happened to walk past the men’s shoe section in Walmart and noticed some shoes that I thought might work for mom. The salesperson told me lots of children bought shoes in the men’s section for their moms. I purchased them, when I brought them home she put them on and they fit her like a glove! Black fake leather, padded with support, velcro closure, around $30. Perfect for old people with big swollen feet and ankles!
DO NOT TELL THEM THE SHOES ARE FOR A MAN! THEY WILL NOT WEAR THEM IF YOU DO. LET THEM THINK YOU BOUGHT THEM IN THE WOMAN’S SECTION.
Have no idea how she will survive comfortably at my brother’s house. I do not speak to my brother so he is going to have to figure it all out by himself like I did. No one helped me with anything.
So, for me ... men's hiking shoes, 1 size smaller, every time.
My mom lived during the depression too. They had five children in the family but two died before my mother was born.
The men’s shoes are cut quite a bit larger so they do fit for severely swollen feet and ankles. They gave her the support that she needed too.
My mom refused fluid pills. She was supposed to wear the compression stockings every day. Sometimes she would fight about wearing those too.
She was supposed to elevate her feet and she wouldn’t always do that.
All of those things help with edema.
Good for your mom that she accepts wearing men’s shoes. She doesn’t sound like she is vain like my mom.
My mom hates that her hair is thinning. She’s in her 90’s for crying out loud! She wore make up to get the mail from the mailbox in case anyone was watching her. Everything had to always be perfect.
I finally figured out that she associates people begging her with caring. Not realizing it’s exhausting for others to continually beg her. No one should have to beg. They should be grateful to have help and cooperate with others.
Two years old children are rebellious because they are children. The elderly do it for attention. I was with her every single day! She didn’t have to pull those shenanigans.
All it did was turn me off and push me way. I would walk away when she acted up like that. I raised my kids. I didn’t need to raise another one.
Plus she is a chronic complainer. If her swelling went down she wasn’t happy because she couldn’t complain about it. She loved people feeling sorry for her to get attention.
I wonder how common that is. I do know a few other old people like her and I swear being mom’s primary caregiver for a bazillion years just about killed me so I can’t do a repeat of it.
Recently I told an old woman that I know who is extremely negative and loves, loves, loves people to fuss over her that I wasn’t the right person to speak to because my quota was full for the rest of my life! Hahaha
I told her to find another old lady who enjoyed complaining as much as she did and they could have a grand time. They could feel sorry for each other. Some elderly feel they have to cause drama to get attention. Just shoot me if I ever get like that.
I know SIL showed MIL, on her phone .. a couple of pics of shoes she'd seen in the store, . both of them velcro closure style and MIL turned up her nose at both .. "eeww, those are just ugly.. don't make we wear those ugly things".
I know even for myself, .. I have all but ruined my feet .. live in FL and run around barefoot 90% of the time and if I have to wear shoes, . it's sandals or flip flops. Rarely do I wear a formal "shoe" . other than to church . and n.e.v.e.r. heels.
My feet are all kinds of screwed up . from having gone barefoot all my life.
So finding a shoe that fits me comfortably .. is a real challenge. There are loads of shoes I'd like to wear . but I put it on my foot and can feel .. I'd be coming outta that in no time .. hurts my feet.
So .. even I, .. and I'm not 90 . have to go with function .. more so than fashion.
Vanity .. not really anything I can even take into consideration with shoewear.