I've posted before about in-law care-giving. Aged mother in law, lives in same town.
We are at the tail end of a visit from sister in law from several states away. Sister in law has been here for 3 weeks caring for her mother. A much welcome respite.
It had been discussed, prior to her arrival here on the scene, she would be talking it over with her mother, to try and get her mom to come up to her home, for a stay of maybe a few months.
This, in my opinion, is absolutely essential, as I am expecting twin grand-children, due in about 1 month (if they don't come sooner, as is the case a lot of times with multiples pregnancies). The expectant mother also lives locally here, and has a 4 year old daughter. I will be on that front, helping .. as much as is needed. And not on the front with mother in law and care-giving, and have made that as obvious and apparent as I know how to make it. It would be great if mother in law would agree to go to her daughter's home (several states away) for a period of a few months .. and allow me the latitude to put my energies where I want them to be, on my daughter who will have had a c-section .. and my grand-daughter (4 years old) and new twin babies.
Nothing doing. Mother in law has dug in her heels, and will not hear of it, going to stay with her daughter for any period of time.
What are her reasons?
In mother in law's defense ... her daughter ... I don't even know how to describe it. I will say that when her daughter comes here to visit, she all but breathes for her mother and if she could find a way to do that, she'd do that too. She is the most nervous nelly, never sit down - ever ... worry wart, do everything, all the time .. person that I've ever encountered.
A great example, as I was taking her to the airport yesterday for her departure, . I reached into the fridge to grab myself a bottled water and shut the fridge and turned to walk away, as I've done for all of my 50 plus years living on this earth .. and she said to me, "Oh make sure that fridge shut". WTH???? Like I don't know how to shut a fridge? That's just a small, very small slice of what she is ... how she is.
She is so very hyper-vigilant, seeing to every minute details down to it's finest most minuscule point, fine tooth comb, questioning every point along the way, "should we do thus and so, but maybe if we do thus and so, then such and such will happen, maybe we should do it thus and so .. but then so and so might happen, maybe we shouldn't do thus and so, but do "x" "y" and "z" instead, but if we don't do it that way then ..........", on and on and on and on it goes. And usually in hyper warp speed, as to every single friggin thing.
If her mother moans .. "what's wrong mother?, why did you moan, are you alright?".
Mother: "Yes, I'm fine, I was just sighing out loud".
Sister: "Why did you sigh? Are you hurting, are you sure you're alright, why are you sighing what's the matter?"
Mother: "For God's sake __________________, I was just sighing, .. calm down, I'm fine".
Sister: "Are you sure, .. because if something is wrong you need to tell me".
Mother: "Everything is fine, I'm fine".
Sister: "Are you sure, we did a lot yesterday, did we do too much, maybe we shouldn't of gone to two doctors in one day .. was that too much for you, are you too tired now, maybe we need to move those other doctor appointments so we won't have two in one day, is that too much for you, for one day .. is that why you were sighing .. what's wrong, are you sure you're alright".
Hopefully that kinda gives a little bit of a snapshot of what goes on when sister is in the ring directing things.
So in mother in law's defense.. I do get it, why she wouldn't be chomping at the bit to go to her daughter's home.
BUT ....
The only experience she has with her daughter, in the last years as mother in law has aged and been unable to go anywhere much, has been the daughter coming here, periodically, for periods of about 3 weeks at a stretch. When her daughter comes here, she moves heaven and earth for her mother and then some, and doesn't sit down, doesn't stop .. the WHOLE ENTIRE TIME.
Is there a possibility maybe (as I said to mother in law, when she expressed that isn't happening - talking to me - her going to her daughters .. ever) .. could it be possible that maybe if you would go to where she lives .. she'd be more busy managing her own life in that setting than your's and she would get out of your backside .. and not be as hyper-drive-vigilant as you experience in her, when she's here, could that be possible.
The daughter is retired, lives several states away. Does come here, generally, every few months .. and stays for a period of about 3 weeks at a stretch. I wish I could make a list of everything the daughter did when here this last time, but it would take up the whole character allotment:
I have no idea if her wandering adventures from last night, .. were they on foot, or driving. Haven't been told.
Unpredicablle behaviour, aggitaion, dehydration risk, wandering. Oh boy. A fall somewhere at night is my guess - hopefully not too injured but gets herself transported to same hospital. Then keep her there!
Keeping it brief, I’m only gonna comment on two points.
First - the whole “network” thing that your dad is stuck on. I’d bet the farm that - that is all a part of the Old People Go Bat Chit Nutz With UTI’s thing. As his infection/sepsis subsides so will this point of contention. I think, maybe try going along with it by saying you’ll call his medical insurance carrier and get it straightened out. It may take saying it a few times until his mind clears but it could get you off the phone in the moment.
The second point is the Oxycodone. Make sure the medical staff know he’s been taking it daily and that there is a possible physical dependence. If they are not aware of the possibility of physical withdrawal, he could wind up having a “cardiac event” from that alone.
That’s it for now. I’m pooped and Im
positive you are too.
At the time, they said " hospital psychosis"
Do you think dad thinks he can't safely "tell you what he means" over the phone due to some paranoia? Sounds like he's bought into K's crazies.
. Older folks ( and younger ones) do get disoriented and crazy in that very unfamiliar environment. I sure hope the CM sees that going home is just not an option.
(((Hugs))))))
pulling it out. She actually has suprapubic catheter....the fact that you are being asked to explain and take over managing your stepmom
behavior tells me the hospital isn’t listening to your lack of daily management and is just looking for someone to be in charge.
The first nurse you spoke to seemed to understand that K is clearly demented. I'll bet that didn't make it into the notes or nobody read them. You need to be a broken record and tell EVERYONE every time you speak to them the same facts.
K has dementia, thwarts your father's care plan and insists on driving, your father's possible addiction to oxy, no caregiver at home and no, you will not be the care plan.
Cooking, eating, hydrating, getting groceries? Is she on her own? Or has she accepted the paid care-giver back?
So another day is dawning and any "responsible" person .. a compassionate person with a human side to them .. would reach out at this point, . or at some point as this day progresses.
Reach out to dad .. a familiar voice in his storm .. but to do so . .may find that delirium .. and whatever it is, .. in the end, .. a frustrating exchange of dialogue for him .. but also for me.
I realize, ... I'm not by any stretch the 1st person to have called a parent who is hospitalized and have them so disoriented and agitated and such .. I get that. But ... I'm also .. the daughter here, .. who was pushed to the periphery .. for decades in all this, .. and was right fine in that role. Worked for me. Now, .. now that you're aged and infirm .. and you are at the hands of a demented wife, now .. now you want me to engage and be a part of things ... at least as far as checking on you, and/or communicating with staff there .. but back up .. as far as "pushing things" into any direction they should go, or at least MO of how things should go .. leave you be to not have to squabble and quarrel with that scrambled eggs for brains wife .. and don't rock that boat ..... but be there for the back end of things ... to be that familiar voice, to be that assured person who has some sense, to communicate/advocate on your behalf to staff.
I'm really angry. I don't want to call him and find myself in the shoes of his delirium . and have to placate that .. and then .. maybe get my marching orders as to what are his latest list of beefs .. (as was yesterday .. they won't give me anything to drink .. suspected on that one, either he is to have some procedure .. and thus, nothing by mouth . or he's confused .. the later was the case). There's no one here .. I'm so uncomfortable .. they won't give me any pain meds .. .there's nobody checking on me, nobody comes .. and I'm stuck in the same position in this bed and too weak to readjust myself ... and I want to go home .. I need you to come here, so I can talk to you face-to-face ... you aren't understanding the things I'm saying to you.
So I do what almost any responsible compassionate person would do .. call staff .. get their explanation as to the above complaints . and all weighs out, much as I expected would be the case.
So call him again today . and walk dead straight into more of the same ... ??.... delirium .. and disorientation and a host of complaints .. and ills as to the setting there .. and then ... ???...
Ignore it all, don't bother calling staff . as it's likely all is as it should be, and it's his delirium talking .. or ... (SIGH) .. follow through .. talk to staff .. verify .. all is as it should be . ask again . yet again .. "when is the CM going to call me".
All the while I know in any dialogue with a CM .... that will play out about like this.
Me, voicing my concerns: He is not a safe discharge .. yes, I realize you are likely going to send him to a rehab site ... so he can gain some strength . that will be the discharge plan .. but what I'm telling you is this . beyond his stint at any Rehab site .. will be another discharge plan . and that one should not include "HOME". At "HOME" he has a wife who has Dementia and cannot adequately care for him .. and see to meeting his needs.
I'd imagine the response will probably go about like this; "ok, and let's see .. now do you have Medical POA for your dad, does your stepmother have a formal dx of Dementia.
Me; No and no .. but I get called upon when the chit falls off the cliff in their world, they did at one time have a paid c'giver coming into the home .. that meets a lot of friction and resistance from stepmom .. who doesn't think the expense of same as necessary and feels she is completely capable of caring for my dad ... and so she balks and raises the roof on that issue, to the degree, my dad is not strong enough to stand on his own two feet and fight
And you dealt with this one properly by calling EMS.
You feel bad for your dad; we all do. But this was an avoidable problem.
No, you can't force them into a care home. But you couldn't do that with POA either. They have to agree to go.
They are, to quote my wise mom " their own worst enemies". No plan, just mistrust. You don't owe them any amount of running around. This is in the hands of hospital Social Services now.
Just keep doing what you're doing.
not strong enough to withstand that battle, and he finally caves and c'giver dismissed. She isn't able to divy out his pills for him . fights with him about what is necessary as to his medications .. and what isn't .. and doesn't feed him .. unless prompted .... and even then forgets ... routinely .. can't keep up with appts and schedules of same, and/or do the back end work of negotiating same and phoning various entities as to appts .. and needs thereof .. he is not safe to discharge to home with her as his c'giver.
To perhaps the CM then questioning again: "And you don't have formal Medical POA . is there a reason you're aware of why that hasn't been done?".
Me; "I've fought that battle, that too will be a war in his world .. to name me such . and hasn't been done . and as with all else, he twirls on his thumb and it doesn't get done".
CM: "Hmm . yea .. okay ... I'm noting all of this . but do know that without any official standing in all this ,there's not a lot we can do .. she doesn't have a formal dx of Dementia anywhere .. as you tell me, so we can't negate her input as we go forward here, .. if he's willing to go home . her as his c'giver and her willing to accept that role, . absent any legal standing to do otherwise, our hands are tied really"
Will go about like that or some variation thereof.
And ................................
In the B'ground we have ... stepsister put out a feeler yesterday on SM . directed to all her friends .. friends who perhaps also have aged parents .. "Urgent situation . need all my friends who have dealt with aging parents and needs thereof .. I am in urgent need of an in home c'giver that is dependable, honest, reliable and caring .. probably from 4 to 11 PM and from 11 PM to 7 AM .. my stepdad is in the hospital . and my mom who has Sundowners (there is no formal dx .. and she is not a medical doc) .. gets disoriented at night .. and I need someone to babysit her .. she can care for herself during the day ... but she gets disoriented at night .. if any of my friends have some references .. PM me .. and I'll give you my phone #".
I read this on social media yesterday.
I already told her when she stated .. her mom was found wandering and her mom's sister .. told her (told K) .. "ok, it's either an in home c'giver or you're going to a home" .. I told stepsister at that juncture, .. "yea and your mom will run off any c'giver brought to bear".
Her response had been: "yea but she has dementia and it's so important that they be allowed to stay in familiar surroundings .. it's well known if you up and remove that familiar surrounding .. they fall off the cliff badly .. I want her to be able to stay in the home .. if your dad will decide the gig is up . and be willing to go into a home somewhere .. she'll fight it . yea .. she will . and all h377 will break lose . but ultimately .. she'll follow him .. so .. I need to get a c'giver in there .. to baby sit her"
Thus the post on SM.
So here I sit this morning .. frustrated/angry . and of course, of the millions of other things I need to do today one of those things needs to be ... reach out and touch base on the phone with my dad.
Yesterday if I'd of tried to present any of this .. in dialogue with him .. I'd do better to expect any comprehension from one of my two yo g'kids ...
Who knows if today will be any better .. if I should call him . will he still be off in some delirium of stuff that makes absolutely no sense? Maybe .. who knows.
And I have several messages in, that I want to speak to a CM . and I'm told that will likely be today .. and of course, I sit with the (see above) supposition of about how all that will play out .. and completely frustrated.
We had all this dialogue, dad and myself (him kicking the can down the dam road .. ) a year ago when all this was ongoing with his health crises . and me urging him to make the needed changes . and for naught .. and yes I
Don't even think about calling him. I wouldn't even answer his calls if he calls you. He called you once, and you dutifully called the hospital to try and verify his complaints. He will expect that to happen again.
As Glad pointed out, the hospital is already expecting you to manage stepmom's behavior ("Can you talk to her?"). No, no, NO.
If the CM calls you, you will tell her your father's living situation. Make it very clear that you are not and will not be the caregiver, despite what your father may try to tell them.
You've learned your lessons well from your experience with MIL.
yes I harped on it all, relentlessly .. til I could see .. nothing was gonna change. They have a c'giver coming to the home .. okay . well I guess that'll have to do ..
And I let it go ..
And .. all the while I knew .. any contact with them . and one would be informed just how frustrated stepmom was .. having this "person" in their periphery as part of daily life . this person and her quirks ... and .... the expense of it all, .. and "why he keeps throwing good money after bad paying her to be here, is beyond me, I can do what she does ... we don't need her, I guess your dad just like to throw good money out the window" .. you'd hear this anytime you talk to them . .and yes I'd try to counter with things that make sense as to reason(s) to have her there on site .. .but all to her argument (her demented mind) .. "I can do what she does ... your dad is just throwing money out the window paying her to come here, I can do what she does . we don't need her here"
To ultimately ... I guess she raised enough ruckus that the c'giver was dismissed . and once I learned that and of course, voiced MO, . didn't weigh either way . they don't care what I have to say . either one of them.
So .. of course, all I can do is to put forth MO in talking to a CM . whenever that might occur . and it will all really in the end, be for nothing .. cuz .. what is to transpire .. is yet another c'giver will be brought forth in it all .. and .. to the same broken record ... her balking and raising the roof on the expense of same, not wanting "someone" in our home all the time . and all for them to ultimately dismiss said c'giver in the end .. I can see it coming.
Just fed up.
I need to reach out and be that familiar voice .. to a dad who is pretty sick, hospitalized . and alone because of COVID ....
But you see what doing so brings . and so it's a struggle for me this morning, to even want to. I want to turn and ignore every dam bit of it .. every morsel of it, . ignore it .. and go on with what I have to do . and be damed the consequences of what befalls the whole setting . doesn't matter what MO's are .. doesn't matter what my input is ... so why bother.
I get your anger. Absolutely understandable. Any weeds to pull? Or maybe a good fast walk around the block? Then breathe, let go & grab a pen.
Draw up two columns: Dad's problems & Your problems. File under Dad's side; delerium, position in bed, meds, wife etc. Not yours.
He is surrounded by trained professionals. Busy & not always as attentive as we'd like, but the staff must deal with all that.
Also under Dad's side is not completing important paperwork, like med POA.
He delegated you to visitor for birthdays & Christmas. So be the visitor (well, when you can). Your side may have what's the best time to call.
If he stabalizes the hospital will ship him out to rehab. Rehab will return him to hospital if unwell, or send home if better. Rehab will have duty of care to ensure care-givers is in place. Wife will cancel care-giver again. He (or she) gets unwell again, call you, you call ambo, back to hospital & cycle repeats.
Make peace with this version of the future. One day he will slip away, either in his home (probably his wish) or somewhere in this cycle. He has chosen this future by default as he did not choose anything else.
When the hospital asks about K, supply them with step sister's phone number. Maybe K's sister's number as well. Let her family step up and step in if they know what is best for K.
There is plenty the hospital can do. They can call APS.
Your stepmother is endangering your father's health and well-being. No needs, wrong meds, no food. Appointments not kept.
They can send her to a senior behavioral unit for evaluation.
They can get a public guardian appointed for your father.
(This kind of stuff happens in NYC all the time; dont know about FL).
You've warned your dad all along what could happen.
He didn't listen, so now his fate will be in someone else's hands.
None of this is in your locus of control, Dorker. Let it go.
Waiting for an answer to that.
Had a phone call from the nurse in dad's setting.
Dad is being moved, doing better. He was in a Progressive Unit .. I guess a step down from Critical/Intensive Care .. but is doing better now . and will be moved to a more .. hospital type room . and .. what is said to be a Telemetry Unit .. where his cardio issues will be monitored . but not as intensive of care as where he presently is.
Said the delirium has eased some in the further drop in WBC .. and heart rhythm is normal ... BP continuing to climb ..
I haven't called my dad .. as the nurse indicated when I was talking to the nurse (he) .. that the wound care nurse was in with my dad at present, didn't wanna interrupt that.
Wound care because his genitalia area (was aware of that already), being doctored for raw/red ... because of the skin irritation of urine/feces .. (I would suppose that may be how he got a UTI to begin with .. likely sitting in soiled Depends for too long) .. a wife .. as c'taker who has Dementia and him unable to do so for himself, and no c'giver on site, thus now wound care ... (also on condom catheter and has been since he got there, .. to cut down on further irritation to that area).
Also aware he is to be moved .. and so wanting that to transpire . .and get him settled in new room before calling him ..
But yes, great suggestion . let the case management get input from all who have awareness in this saga .. or not .. and pass that info along. If stepsister will share with me the phone #'s .. of K's sisters who have awareness as to her mental frailties .. then all the better.
I have shared .. countless times with stepsister .. "so fine, they can't give you info, but you can certainly share what info you have and concerns, with them . they will take what you have to say .. call them .. don't expect them to share info with you if she hasn't okayed that ... but .. they will take whatever input you have .. call them".
I don't think stepsister has done so.. From my viewpoint . it seems as though stepsister wants ... for her mom .. to not fall off that cliff .. in her dementia . and so .. bring in c'giver on site .. and let her stay in familiar surroundings . .. don't upend her existence to the level she now has to move to a new setting and set about that complete fall off the cliff brought about in moving to a new settting.
I have expressed to stepsister ... something akin to this .. "but you see, .. she is of broken brain . and thinks herself completely capable of caring for my dad . and values money . .always has .. more than anything . as she watches my dad throw good $ after bad . .out the window as she sees it ... in the fact, .. *she can do what a c'giver does .. why do you keep throwing money out the window . just throw it in the fireplace .. that's what you're doing* .. and dad ..even when well, . can't stand up to that withering barrage of argument . and so acquiesces .. and c'giver gets dismissed ... she is not capable of caring for him .. negotiating various appts needed, meds to be administered .. any routine nourishment .. fluids .. etc . .she is not capable . but she doesn't recognize that .. in her mental frailties .. and yet .. argues any need for on site c'giver .. she is endangering my dad's health and well being".
To that you get a response from her: "well what happens with your dad is going to be up to him and you .. to decide, ..if he decides it's time for him to go to a different setting . she will follow .. yea after all h377 breaks loose . and much argument . and drama . yea . .but she WILL follow him ultimately ... she would agree to go . after a whole lot of drama .. but your dad has to decide what he wants . and you .. I have to make sure that mom is safe here alone .. and I want to keep her in familiar surroundings .. so as to not drive her off the cliff completel w/her Dementia".
So that's where it stands.
I will when/if I Ever get to talk to the CM .. I will impart all this . FWIW.
Does she know that NOTHING is up to you, because your advice is not taken? And that you have no legal standing whatsoever?
She is, as we speak, interviewing c'givers .. on site .. at her mom's ... and much to the .... if given the latitude .. protests on her mom's behalf.
So .. I'm quite sure she's blaming it on .. to get buy in from her mom .. that stepdad will be returned home (which is more likely accurate) .. and she will need the help of a c'giver ... hoping to get her mom to acquiesce.
I would love to be a fly on the wall, to these interviews and the mom right there, protesting .. "I don't need help, I can do this all on my own ... you are throwing good money after bad to be doing this" .. words spoken to her daughter, in the presence of people coming and going to interview for this role.
I'm sure stepsister will strong arm her way through this whole thing and have it set up .. in short order, .. for said . whomever to fill those shoes .. and in whatever hours she deems necessary ..
At some point, dad will return to the home .. and the whole shebang will begin anew ... .
Unless my dad .. if I can talk to him and him not so demented himself in the delirium of his own illness .. if/when I can make sense to him . that he doesn't need to return to the home, at all. That when he does .. there will be a c'giver there that his wife will run off in short order, .. and he will once again be at the mercy of her care .. lackthereof. That he needs to .. work with me, to get him placed .. with the help of hospital social workers .. and so forth.
If he refuses that as an option . and I suspect he will do just that .. and try to kick the can down the road. I will tell him .. "ok, .. don't call me .. you're on your own, I disagree wholeheartedly to be a part of your refusal to pick up the can and quit kicking it down the road".
But he's gotta get to where one can make sense with him . .and one could . not so long ago .. to his kicking the can down the road of course, .. but that was before this latest medical malady upended his own mental capabilities.
But he has to get to where I can make sense with him.
I did put in a call to him . he's been moved to another room ..
He was unable to talk, .. attributable maybe to weakness/feeble .. and too much to say .. and no will to do it, .. I would guess. Kept muttering in his barely distinguishable feeble voice, 'Call Ebony, .. Call Ebony, I can't talk ... I can't talk to tell you all that I have to say, call Ebony".
I supposed .. "Ebony . maybe that's the nurse that is caring for him".
Tried the nurse desk and indeed .. wahlaa .. his nurse's name is Ebony. Spoke with her, .. he's fine ... WBC coming down . heart rate, BP .. all resuming normalcy .. had to be hard catheterized as he is retaining fluids .. and was given a pain pill for chronic back pain (back surgery more than a year ago that was to have corrected the back issue, but still maintains .. pain . and gets OXY .. and so . who knows).
On the OXY issue .. I really don't care to fight this battle at all, .. his wife does .. oh does she . to the point of an obsessive/compulsive issue they harp on . those with Dementia.
As far as I'm concerned, .. this isn't a 30 yo that has some viable life left . .and is now hooked on OXY . and .. can't resume any semblance of normal life with addiction to pain pills in the way.
MO .. he won't ever have anything resembling a normal life .. he's far too old and too compromised at this point in his life .. and .. why fight that battle. Yes, I'm fully aware that oxycodeine kills a lot of people .. and it may be his demise. I'm aware.
But that's a sword I'm not willing to whip out and fight about. Just not gonna.
Please keep reminding yourself that this cluster eff is of your dad's own making. Call if you like and offer comfort; talk to the CM and give her/him the information needed, but make it clear that there is no help at home, that it gets runs off by K and that you are not in a position to provide in home care. And that dad is endangered by K's "care".
Your dad has financial resources. He probably has a lawyer and a broker. Those are the folks who need to be contacted. Not you.
You have hectored him in the most responsible way for as long as we've known you to get something in place so that you or brothers would have some say so in what happened to him.
He didn't.
This is was his responsibility.
Let it go.
Had a call a little bit ago . while I was out running some errands .. and saw it was a hospital # calling, so of course, picked it up . hoping it was to be the CM that I'm waiting to hear from. Wasn't CM.
Was Ebony . the nurse caring for dad . .her now bedside of my dad. And prompted by him to call me. (I had already talked to her and been apprised of the day's events.) She said she did tell him that she'd spoken with me, but there was some add'l info that he wanted to share with me, but can barely talk .. (and he's right, he barely can .. so weak/so feeble .. it's all he can do to be .. oh I don't even know the term for it .. he sure can't string a sentence together without stopping .. to take a breath or three .. there's that, but he sounds like he has a wad of cotton balls in his feeble voice).
He "is" able to make sense better now .. but I can barely understand his words. Basically he put Ebony on the phone to reiterate what she'd already told me. Whatever. But then she asked him did he want to talk to me, and he did. She put him on the phone and she exited the room.
He wanted me to get ahold of his in home PT .. to get that cancelled, . slated for tomorrow (what I lined up in last week's stop there). I already did that, called them this morning.
Dawns on me, .. why aren't you having your wife to do these things . she's fine to take care of you right?
Wanted me to get ahold of Oncology . that he won't be able to make his infusion appt . did that already.
Is concerned that I get my hands on his cc. Has a cc he uses to pay "ALL" his bills .. (I guess to get the points or whatever) and I guess at the end of the month strokes a check to pay that cc. Wanting me to get my hands on that cc .. I guess so I can pay his bills?
Fortunately . he changed direction before that became a "thing".
Wanting me to talk to them .. the powers that be there at the hospital w/regard to when .. when will he get out of there .. and where is he going. I told him I have a call into case management, if/when they call me back and I'm reasonably certain his next stop will be a Rehab site .. to get stronger, but that I'm going to advocate that he be placed .. that he does not need to go home. Saying these words to him: "Dad it is more than apparent she can't take care of you .. how long did you sit there with an ongoing UTI .. she's more concerned with how many Oxy you're taking than she is a brewing UTI that quickly went to Sepsis and as you're aware, that is life threatening .. she does not .. can't think to follow up on your meds, your nourishment . your appts .. and to look after you adequately"
I don't know that he "heard" me .. may have been selective listening . don't care.
He then said "I need you to get ahold of H ... (his brother .. fairly new widowed and at loose ends .. as to direction in his own existence, retired, lives in another state) .. get ahold of H if you would .. I'm thinking if he's able to . it might be good if he could come here for a couple of weeks .. to maybe help navigate some things .. and he's a good cook . he could certainly prepare meals there .. would you do that for me, would you reach out to H and see if he thinks that's a possibility".
Told him I will reach out and talk to H and let him know the goings on around here . but I can also and will do so, impart to H the direction I think all this needs to take, and so .. no .. I don't concur that he should come here. Will be somewhat a hostile environment for H .. as I know how territorial K can be . and I've seen it/experienced it myself. Why would I wish to subject this newly widowed man .. to this train wreck. I don't.
Asked that I bring K into the fold (his wife) as to the discussion with H .. would I apprise her of the fact that I'm in touch with H and what it is I'm imploring of him. Don't intend to do that.
Back to square one a year ago ... you choose to live with this woman you married
and in an obstinate .. hostile contrary environment. I don't have to do so. You want her apprised .. you apprise her.
Better yet . have her do so . reach out to H (she won't .. territorial remember) .. have her do it on your behalf.
He is hardly audible .. not that he talks so soft, . more to the point . he is slow slow slow with what is said, but each word sounds like a cotton ball is wedged in his mouth . .so it's really really hard to understand him.
Oh and also (I didn't counter w/this whole thing) wants me to get his cc so he can "put me on the payroll, since he leans on me so much".
I'm sorry but that one too went by the wayside without further dialogue, but I have no intention of being on his "payroll" .. as a paid anything. Nope ... didn't just fall off the turnip truck, not me. Nope. See the way this works is .. I do what I "want" to do for you . and that which I don't wish to do, I'm free to decline . that's how this is gonna roll, . .not that I'm being paid so by golly jump to. No thanks.
So .. yea . his cluster eff he has failed to address .. not mine.
Your emergencies do the planning for you and at that point the choices aren't very good.
Thank you, Dorker for sharing in all of the hilarious, ugly, bat chit crazy, chitapalooza filled, adventures of aging without a realistic view and planning for the needs of an aging person. "i'll be young forever" just isn't realistic.
“...she is endangering my dad's health and well being".
As you indicated you said to your step-sister, regarding K.
Ummm... No. HE is and has been endangering his own health and well being. No one else. He KNOWS K isn’t functioning on all cylinders and he certainly knew it when he allowed the caregiver to be dismissed. Him.
The problem now, as I see it - is that you are expecting him to clear up mentally and be able to make a rational and reasonable decision regarding his own health and the care there of. When he has been demonstrating that he hasn’t been able to do that even prior to this current crisis.
That your father is receiving wound care at the hospital for having sat in a wet and soiled Depends is very telling. Yes, sitting in urine and feces is hard in the skin - but it doesn’t happen after one occasion or even two or three. And, if his junk was injured to the point that he requires wound care says that he must have been in some significant discomfort. A rational person would have said something - something to somebody else other than a demented wife who can’t be depended upon for food - let alone the washing, creams and ointment it takes to treat acidicly burnt skin. Instead - he sat. Sat and brewed up a significant UTI and sepsis. With his fingers in his mouth.
The probable fact if the matter is - every time some crisis like this occurs in someone as old as your father - and I do mean starting as far back as the back surgery, the cancer and the other maladies of the past year or so - Yes, they can “recover”. BUT, “recovery” takes them to a new “normal”. And, the new “normal” is a place of Less Than. Less than they were before - both mentally and physically.
So Dorker... step in or don’t. But you’ve got to stop expecting your father to “recover” and be able to make reasonable and rational decisions regarding his own care. It’s NOT GONNA HAPPEN. And, please stop blaming K. Listen, from what you’ve told us about her - back to the days when you were a child and up to today - I can’t say I like her. At all. But, from what you’ve also told us about your father - he seems/seemed like a man fully capable of running his own show, making decisions regarding his children and planning for retirement and all the legal documents and decision that go with it all. Yet he has failed to do so on almost every account. Through no ones fault but his own.
MIL still hangs in there . in the b'ground of all this. Hearing less these days of the woe with me. I think she .. she knows enough about the Covid thing .. to feel somewhat more secure in that setting and has put voice to that sentiment more than once. So .. she hasn't been playing the woe w/me card at every turn .. still gets played but not as much.
In the move to another room (recent) .. seems the story goes .. all her clothes are gone . not accounted for. And of course, none of us can get in there to do some digging .. we aren't allowed in.
SIL I guess burning up the phone lines there . .got ahold of some poor sap . and that individual did .. I guess got tired of hearing it .. took it upon themselves to go to MIL's room . .and lo and behold most of her clothes are there indeed . or so one would think maybe (the woman doing this searching doesn't have an inventory in hand, to know what was and wasn't part of her wardrobe) .. but found, . and in a hodgepodge of a manner, stuff shoved everywhere . and reorganized MIL's clothes, PJ's . etc. So . crises averted there.
SIL working the angle to try to get the much missed visits from psych doc (used to visit 2 x's weekly but now cannot, Covid) .. .trying to work an angle as to face-time with MIL for visits .. SIL working that angle on her mom's behalf.
Reminding me .. (she does so a couple of times a week, SIL does) to let DH know that is an availability if he wishes to do so .. face-time/skype. I simply responded .. "he knows". (he hasn't chosen to do so, opting instead to go there, for window visits once a week)
SIL working on her end, with a dog .. Poochie ... MIL's former much beloved poochie . who is one foot on a banana peel and the other in the grave .. SIL working that angle .. any number of further measures to try to keep him alive .. trying to decide what is the dog's QOL .. vs her own . in all shes' having to do .. and .. the costs to same, etc ..
DH still laments .. from time to time, upon conclusion of visits w/his mom .. "poor mom . I hate it for her I wish she could live here with us' .. recently got on that kick harder .. as he does from time to time. Him having touted (is very bible oriented .. me, not as much as he) . and him touting some sermon he'd heard that it's a 'sin' so he said, from some tele-evangelist .. what people do these days .. throwing their aged parent into a home . and walking away . that we are to care for, love and honor our parents in their old age. Him now using that .. with the poor poor mom.
I told him to show me where it says that in the bible . it doesn't. We are . yes to honor our parents and love them .. and care for the needy/widowed . .yes we are. But that care, can come in the form of making sure she is in a safe setting, and cared for adequately and visits to see her .. and don't abandon her .. and advocating on her behalf as to her needs/care .. and no . we don't "have to" and no it's not a "sin" to not bring an aging parent into your home . not when that would look a whole lot worse as to her care, than what is her present setting.
His argument to that was .. "what did society do when NH's didn't exist .. people had no choice, they had to pitch in and do it, take in their loved ones", to my response .. "in those days people lived closer together with extended families .. and the burden could be shared, many aunts/uncles, cousins . etc .. that isn't the case in today's' society and it's too burdensome for one person to do it all, . she needs to be in a setting where this is a fresh shift change every 8 hours .. and well rested, trained individuals .. I'm neither. And in those days, life expectancy wasn't what it is today ..
That seems to have quelled that nonsense, for now.
And all of that, . at a time when she herself isn't singing the blues as she once did, . not as much. sheesh!
Society has changed. Life expectancy is no longer 62.
Good on you, Dorker, for ignoring Dad's "on the payroll" bit. Sorry to say, he's a real piece of work.
And as to his "CC and pay my bills"? "Sorry dad...I would need to have power of attorney to do that". Now that he's a bit lucid, I would be a broken record on that point.
It doesn't give you enough authority to place him, but it's something.
I see only danger, Dorker, in you using your dad's credit card to pay for anything without authority. K will be after you in a court of law in a hot second, dementia or no.
I would let this situation sort itself out.
My explaining to her that I wish to impart some information to her on my dad's behalf that he is not a safe discharge, .. examples of his wife .. and her care . and her obstinate as to a c'giver brought to bear ..
Brick wall.
Her response: "Well .. have you spoken to your dad about this, I talked to K earlier and she is eager for him to come home .. "
Me; "Yes I'm aware she would be eager for him to come home . she has no real cognizance of the need that she isn't able to meet and the neglect that is exhibited with her as his care provider, he is not safe to discharge to home".
SW: "well honestly ... is there a reason you haven't called APS .. I mean if she's not seeing to his meds, and he isn't able to do so, and his nourishment . that is something APS needs to look into".
Me; Have you had any dialogue with my father w/regard to how he deems his care at home . and the concerns thereof?
SW: "No .. I will certainly do that .. and try to talk with him . but I don't know if you're aware, .. unless you have guardianship .. he is free to choose .. where he lives .. unless there is willful neglect in that settting . in which case, APS can step in and name a next of kin . as guardian for him .. but without their involvement to do that .. he gets to choose where he lives and she as his wife gets a voice in that .. but not only that, because he is a chemo patient . he isn't a candidate to go to a NH or a ALF .. that chemo treatment would cease .. and he wouldn't be able to continue with that as any care plan .. have you considered taking him into your home with the concerns you have for his welfare?"
Me: "That is not an option . for many reasons . my home is not going to be where he can reside".
SW: "Do you have any siblings that would be willing to provide that care for him"
Me: "I will give you their numbers and you can certainly ask them .. but no, to my knowledge those aren't going to be options either .. what I am looking for is this .. I have imparted to my dad . what my concerns are as to him living in that setting . this conversation was had a year ago when he had some other health maladies .. at that time .. assurance was given they'd bring a c'giver into the fold . and go with it, .. and that was done . yes .. for several months .. but my dad is too weak to withstand the withering barrage of complaints coming from his wife who thinks herself completely able bodied to care for him . and why throw all that money out the window .. but look no further than missed meds, . arguments .. and missed appts .. and skin breakdown from sitting in soiled Depends . she isn't able to care for him . she doesn't do anything harmful on purpose . it's just that she isn't capable . and that needs to be addressed .. I have shared these concerns with my dad .. and I want a someone in a professional capacity to go with this topic . and speak with him .. and .. try to get things steered in that direction"
SW: "Well ..he gets to be the decider unless he is incompetent .. of where he lives .. and if not him . his wife . unless he is declared incompetent .. w/what you're telling me as to his home life .. I would just be curious as to why there is opposition to calling APS for investigation?
Me: "There isn't opposition to that . as an avenue . but why go that route if this can be handled by him making a rational decision . one born of also the professionals charged w/this responsibility of a safe discharge .. and aware that it's not safe to discharge him .. why can't you call APS based on what you're told".
SW: I can't do so . it's 3rd party knowledge at this point not anything I witnessed 1st hand
Me: Will you have a conversation with my dad in your role as a SW and charged with the responsibility of safe discharge for him?
SW; I will have some conversation with him yes, about the things you've shared with me, but truthfully . unless your dad wishes