I'm so disheartened and angry.

In speaking to BB's and Shane1124's comments.

It's an enigma that I'll likely never wrap my brain around. Yes, DH could . .. if he cared to do so .. put in a phone call to the doc .. have a conversation .. if nothing else .. get the doc's take on it all, rather than push all this to the periphery and not address it. He could also, not for all of them .. but ... at least some of the time, work his schedule around accommodating some doc visits .. in the interest of being engaged/entrenched in it all, it's HIS mom.

I watch him .. he works terribly hard, labor intensive work ... and so he's tired. He is also VERY (overly) involved in our struggling church. As is the case with any church, there are the *do-ers* those that show up when there are things to be done .. and the *pew sitters* (those that are only there on Sunday mornings for the sermon .. and you never see them outside of that setting). DH would be of the former, rather than the latter.

I could list here all the fingers he has in all the pies there, .. but it would be pointless. Suffice it to say .. that takes up a good deal of his time/energies.

His choice to make. Obviously he gleans some satisfaction in his various roles there. That's commendable, .. but ... he also has an ailing mother that he fails to engage in that whole scene and that is not so commendable.

I won't bore anyone with the details .. but it's a church that has seen it's share of turmoil over the last few years .. and in that ... has lost all but a fraction of what were formerly members there. The "do-ers" left behind .. few and far between. That puts the burden on those that are "do-ers" to an even greater degree.

Yes, I have .. as I struggle with watching his commitments there, ever increasing ... (but obviously he gleans satisfaction and enjoyment in it, or he wouldn't do it) .. I've tried to get him to see that it's taking an inordinate amount of his time to prop up what is a broken situation there and we should perhaps consider going to a church where he doesn't have to be so hands on. To no avail. He fervently doesn't want to be one, like so many others, who exited and left the few remaining there ... he doesn't want that to be his story there. It takes up a LOT of his time. A lot. Obviously, .. that's what he "chooses" to do ... nobody is making him.

It's not lost on me, I do watch it all .. and scratch my head. I've said to him, 'ya know I watch how much energy and time that church takes .. and I also watch your mother who needs you ... and you are too tired, or otherwise committed ... that's out of balance, you need to work on removing yourself from some of the need there at church and getting more onto the page of what your mom needs".

The answer I generally get ... something along the lines of, "if mom needs me, I fit it in . I go out there and ck on her, I call her .. if she needs something and asks me, I go do it".

He's right. He does. Does he take it a step further in a whole picture of .."now ma, what's your doc's phone #, I think I just want to get a feel for what their thoughts are and where you are as far as being treated by them, and get on that page and see if there's anything that needs my attention".

Never. Why? I can't really answer it. It's an enigma that I'll never have an answer to.

Is it easier to push it all to the periphery and not address it head-on .. because to do so .. you might learn that things are far graver than what you'd like them to be, and so now you're going to have to take some unpopular action. Looks that way, doesn't it. But I don't want to think the worst of him .. so I back up out of it, and don't push it. It's his mom .. if he wants to take that approach .. so be it.

Is it that he sees .... it will do no good. Mother isn't going to follow through .. that's been apparent all along .. but she's also not going to do anything differently, no matter what I say .. so why am I going to waste my time ... I can go and serve in my church and deal with people who make sense and problems that have resolution .. that's more rewarding anyway.

Perhaps .. I really don't know.

SIL ... I can say on her behalf she is dug in, up to her eyeballs on it all. She doesn't "ignore" any of it. She is forever on the phone with some entity, be it MOW .. be it a doc office, a social service agency, the housekeeper .. a neighbor of MIL's ... she is forever "micro-managing" from afar .. only to come here every few months and run like a house afire ... at managing it all.

Why won't she do the other one thing that needs to happen ... get firm with her mom, that this isn't manageable any longer .. and insist that her mom do things a different way?

I don't know.

I guess .. to do so ... would mean that she'd have to then try to figure that she has to get her mom to her home .. 1K miles away and manage her there ... or ... insist that she go to AL or NH (a fight that would not be winnable).

Does she do all that she does, her finger in so many pies in this direction, managing from afar .. so that she can honor her mom's wishes to leave her in her home .. and allow her mom that latitude, does that keep her warm and cozy at night ... ??.....

Or is it because, to do otherwise .. would mean some tough, unpopular, contentious choices. I don't know.

To me, .. (though I'm probably being more cynical than is necessary in it all) it does appear that SIL doesn't want to face down having to make some tough choices and some stern discussion with her mom. She would cloak that, we've talked about it, .. not in her mother's anger and animosity .. it would be cloaked more in, .. not wanting to make her sad in her final days .. here on earth .. wanting her mother to be happy .. as happy as she can be in her waning years and poor health.

I don't talk to SIL any longer, not nearly as frequently as was the case previously. We talked the other day via text, .. her just imparting to me that her daughter in law's dad needs prayer, .. was hit while riding his bicycle .. hit by a car, and has some serious injuries as a result, .. and then us talking about the mass shooting in LV. But nothing about MIL. When we did talk, .. and MIL the topic .. it was apparent it's a lot for her to manage from afar .. she's said so, more than once. But obviously, as is the case with DH's story above .... it works for her .. for whatever reason. Because, obviously, she doesn't choose to do otherwise.

It's very much a situation in watching it all, .. with the two offspring .. I have to very much set my mind in the direction of .. "they both are choosing their paths in it all .. and for whatever their reasons .. and for me to question the motives and otherwise .. is fruitless .. so be it, it's nothing I can really put my finger on, as to the why's/how's of it all.

To me, it's hard not to see it as a scenario where they both just wish that the cloud would come get her sooner rather than later .. and they will just continue their status quo, SIL hopping in every direction with mindless micro-management, .. DH with his other *busyness* that keeps him on the periphery of it all. But to see it as the above, causes in me, a feeling of .. "gee, I sure don't respect either of these individuals as much as I used to*. But that is maybe unfair (maybe even unfounded) to them, it's their mom .. not mine .. and their decision/choice, not mine.

Dorker; THAT'S real detachment and insight into what is going on. Be well.

Dorker, I wonder if you might find it helpful to look for the "positive good intention" of actions that baffle you.

SIL's frenetic long-distance delegation and activity. DH's fire-fighting.

Their positive good intention is to support their mother in her wishes. That is not in itself a bad thing. MIL's wishes are to remain in her own home and "manage somehow." Well, now. You have recognised that MIL's managing somehow has passed the point where it is possible for the family to sustain it, and you have respectfully withdrawn. Quite right too. But SIL and DH have yet to come to that conclusion; and you must just leave them to arrive at it in their own good time.

I note from skimming through pages that MIL's diuretic is still not under control. Heigh-ho. If she won't comply with instructions on this, and QED she won't, then she will become increasingly immobile, she will fall and she will be back in hospital. It's a vicious circle - she has fluid overload, she is fatigued and her brain is undersupplied with oxygen, she becomes increasingly inactive and confused, she can't take her meds, her fluid imbalance gets worse. You know this has all been explained to her, she thinks she knows better because she doesn't want to have to get up to go to the bathroom because she's tired, so she's non-compliant and she will get worse. If someone were physically on the scene 24/7 they would hand her her meds as prescribed, she would take them, she would be doing better. But that is *still* up to her, and it's not what she wants.

So the worst struggle you'll have will be not saying "told you so." Time moves on, and these things will come to pass, and they won't be your fault and, actually, when you think about it with detachment (and with love), they won't be such a tragedy either. MIL has had a long and busy life and her family is managing the tail end of it as well as they can according to her wishes. Let them. It's fine.

Of course it's true that a more forceful approach could winkle MIL out of her home and into long term care where her medical needs could be got in hand and she could be made to live longer. But if it's not what she wants, what's the point?

It's occurred to me, too (and I'm sure others) that DH is prioritizing church over his mother. I know you're frustrated with his overinvolvement in church, and rightfully so. My MIL was involved with such a church for years. Finally it closed. I couldn't understand why it lasted for so long (to be searching for a new priest for over a decade???).

I agree with you to not notify MIL's doctors about her living situation. As you realize, that is her children's place to do that. And they both appear to be satisfied with the status quo (precarious and unsafe as it is).

My mother (age 91) is really slowing down. Back in February, her doctor asked me if I thought she should be living alone. Shortly thereafter, my mother forbade me from coming back into the examining room with her. One of my brothers was down here and took my mother to her annual physical last week. He got to meet the doctor. Apparently she didn't ask any such questions of him. My mother bragged that the doctor said she was doing great and that she was healthier than people younger than she is. Okayyyy.....so no the doctor is not noticing the increasing mental fuzziness, the even more precarious balance issues, the increasing hearing loss? That must have been a heck of a showtiming performance by my mother!

I asked my mother if she was interested in a tub-to-shower conversion. "Oh, I won't be here long enough to make it worthwhile!" she said. So I said that whether or not she did it might affect just how long she was able to live in her condo. (My mother has told me that she has trouble stepping over the bathtub edge because she can't feel her feet. She needs someone to monitor her showers. She refuses to hire anyone, and I will not be her shower attendant.) 

I think Narcissa and my mother are both fooling their doctors.

CTTN; I found out when I started going to my mom's dr appointments that there was a huge difference between what the doctor SAID and what my mom HEARD.

There was also a big difference in the perception of mom's "regular" doctor who had known her for 30 years, and a new geriatrics doctor. New geriatrics guy (older man himself) immediately picked up on my mom's overwhelming anxiety and got her to a geriatric psychiatrist. Who immediately picked up on mom's cognitive problems and got us to get those worked up.

Either mom's regular doc just didn't notice that mom was different, or he didn't think it mattered.

In any case, when mom's "independence" impinged on our careers and family lives, we told mom things had to change. Fortunately, my bothers and I saw and see things in the same light and we told mom she had to go to a facility for the Fall and Winter storm season. By Spring, she was having a great time and wanted to stay where she was, in Independent Living.

It takes backbone to do this, and the knowledge that you are doing the "right" thing, not the thing your parent "wants". It also means not caring much if your parent blusters and gets mad at you, which is kinda sorta the mark of a fully functional adult, in my book.

Good point, Barb. Who knows what the doctor was really saying to my mother?

In some ways, my mother is like Dorker's MIL. A neurologist noted my mother's many anxieties, but she wouldn't hear of going to a psychiatrist or taking any meds for it. (And her regular doctor -- had her for just a year now, as the medical monopoly here is a revolving door for doctors -- said she didn't like those kinds of meds for her older patients.)

My mother's "independence" is only affecting MY life, since my brothers live out of state. Two of the three were here last week, and got a glimpse into my mother's life. Of course, they want her in AL, but like Dorker's H and SIL, won't go against their mother.

No one wants to go up against my mother. So I guess maybe we're not fully functional. She is deemed mentally competent, so she will continue steering the ship until a crisis occurs.

(I refuse to take the lead in attempting to change her mindset, even though I'm the local one. I am not pushing AL for her, either, so I will not be the one to be blamed if she doesn't like it. As I've told my brothers many times now: 1. I will not stay with my mother or have her stay with me, even if she's recovering from an illness, injury, or surgery. I did that once, and because of the way I was treated, I will not do it again. 2. I do NOT want to be her caregiver, and have started suggesting that when she does end up in AL or a SNF, that she be near one of THEM and not me. I realize that I sound like a selfish uncaring person, but I lost a child suddenly 6.5 years ago, and I do NOT have the mental stamina/patience to put up with my mother. And I'm not going to psychobabblers and taking drugs to do so.)

CTTN; I don't think you should feel selfish for not wanting to move in with your mother or do hands on care. I don't think we "owe" our parents our lives.

I am currently watching one of my dear friends attempt to cope with her mom who continues to live independently with 24/7 aides. This mom, who has dementia, shows up at the ER several times a month, claiming that she's dying. She fires aides kind of willy-nilly, not realizing that she's gotten on the agency "list" for being difficult. My friend, who is in her early 70s and still working part time is starting to wear down. Badly.

CTTN, I'm so sorry for the loss of your child. I don't know how one ever gets beyond that grief. My grandma lost a baby who was 3 months old, when she was in her 20's. She still talked about that baby when she was in her 90's with great sadness and grief.

Be well, my friend.

Countrymouse: I do very much try to look at it all in the light that they are doing the "good" that they think fits the situation(s) as they choose to do. It's the only way that I can really compartmentalize it all, to not have some disappointment and real disrespect for both parties. It's a conscious effort on my part, to always redirect my thoughts on that topic.

CTTN55: I'm so sorry to hear about the loss of your child. Like BB, I can't imagine how one ever weathers that kind of storm.

It does indeed sound as though your mom and MIL here on this end, cut from the same cloth. I never understood (maybe managed care dictates some of these things), .. why when we're back in the doc again, .. yet again .. for the millionth time, with symptoms of failure to manage that diuretic, it seemed like there'd be the repeated cautions and admonishment .. but never a question, "so tell me about your day .. why is it that you can't adequately take this medication and what do we need to do here, because it simply is not an option that you continue to refuse that as well as compression hose .. that isn't an option .. tell me, who do you have to help you manage these things on a daily basis".

The above dialogue never transpired. Maybe, like I said, managed care being what it is these days, docs don't have time to get into the touchy feely end of things .. and it's a matter that they'd rather see the patient again in about 4 to 6 weeks when the problems keep re-occurring, rather than have this one office visit turn into an exorbitantly long one as they sit and discuss the various aspects of her failure to manage and what she needs to consider in lieu of her failure to do so .

And great points you both made. To "force" the issue of more supervised care, it's a situation that all have to be on the same page. Barb's situation, seemed everyone was on that page. That's fortunate. Very!

It can get very messy and ugly when all are not. But good for you CTTN55, that you have your boundaries firmly in place.

BarbBrooklyn and Dorker, thank you. The loss of a child is something one never gets over. One learns to live with the pain.

Dorker, Narcissa and my mother do have some things in common. One thing my mother does, though, is to take her meds correctly. I dread the day when she can't do that. Then again, it won't be me counting out and giving her the pills...

I guess I should give credit where it's due. I'm supposing MIL does sort and distribute her pills into the pill vials she has. She, obviously, doesn't take them as she should.

But I don't know of anyone that is doing that for her, so she must be doing that .. all by herself. I presume.

Cttn55, I am so sorry for your loss. Just thinking about that makes me think of my heart being ripped from my chest. I don't know how you function. You are a strong person!

With hoarders, we have to accept that no matter what we do to "help" they go right back to living in squalor. I think that *stubborn* old folks who are mentally competent are the same way. I've seen lots of old ladies refuse to go to a home, and merely ride the merry go round of hospital-rehab-home. It's a boundary they set. Until they are incompetent, they call the shots. Only when they are beyond the ability to refuse can something meaningful occur in their care. There's simply no point in opposing them. Maybe DH and SIL realize this already.

Must be a whole different animal when you have an elderly LO that is willing and able to go into a more supervised setting of their choice. It must be very comforting for the offspring. To be able to know your LO is cared for and in a setting where they are content/happy.

Dorker, reading your thread makes me ever so grateful for my current situation. Like you said it is a different animal. My Mom, who has developed dementia, isn't happy about going to assisted living but she says she trusts us kids to do what is right. And all six of us children are working well together, doing what we can to keep Mom safe and happy, until we get an opening in the AL we want. I'm soooooo grateful.

We faced a similar problem to you when my MIL was failing, and falling down regularly with calls to 911 to help her get up. Also severe swelling in the legs which in her case was the result of her liver failing. Also with a little dog that was her everything. And like you I backed off and had to let my husband and his siblings do the best they could. And they did try, but their mom was so stubborn that nothing would make her budge. And she refused to go to the hospital. She was mentally competent, so we just had to wait for something to happen. I guess that is where you are at.

In her case her kidneys gave up and she refused dialysis. I think she lived a little over 3 weeks after that.

Wow. Just, I think I'm just knocked back here a bit.

MIL has requested that her daughter find her an AL where she lives, 1K miles away.

Could knock me over with a feather at this point.

Just wow!

This all came to light, this morning .. talking to DH. He'd called his mom yesterday, as he does most days .. has his phone set to remind him to ck on his mom at noon daily. When he called her for his usual ck in .. that's when she told him that she has made a decision and has talked to her daughter about it, and that her decision isn't hasty .. it's one that she has thought out. But that things .... everything ... is just such a struggle for her, and the time has come that she needs AL. Telling DH that it's a struggle for her to get dressed daily, it's a struggle .. just everything, .. all of it, struggle to even get up to go to the bathroom (I do realize, .. but didn't say it ... AL may be .. it may be more like SNF for her ... but I didn't say that).

She told DH that she'd made her way to the doc the other day (I don't know, I've been out of the loop on it all, thankfully) ... the PCP .. having ordered her for numerous tests, etc .. (don't know, DH doesn't either .. but not surprising). I'm supposing some of this was perhaps testing as to the constant fluid build up, .. maybe that issue where there was shortness of breath .. (which does continue) .. who knows. Said, she'd made her way to the PCP the other day .. and was there, had hobbled/stumbled her way in to the doc's office, sitting in the waiting room. Said that it hit her .. as she struggled so with all of it, .. she doesn't even want to do all these tests and so forth .. and that she's done with it. She told DH she went to the receptionist there at the doc's office and told them to have the doc call her, that she isn't staying for her appointment and in fact, isn't going to come back for any more of these appointments, .. that she has made a decision to go into AL .. and to forgo all this testing/procedures/appointments, etc, .. and told DH she then stumbled her way out of there, back out and left .. and came home and then told DH's sister this .. and then told DH, yesterday.

DH is sad ... but relieved.

He's grateful that it's a decision SHE is making .. not one forced upon her. He wishes so, for her, that the big cloud would come get her before it comes to that .. for her sake, .. but realizes that if this is the course the thing needs to take, then that's what is needed. Saddens him, .. that his mom will be 1K miles away. That's not anything he's ever had to deal with. She's always been right up the road about 10 mins away. Saddens him for her, as he knows .. that's nothing she ever wanted her life to come to. But realizes that it's necessary ..she can't manage alone anymore.

She told DH that she does not want to go live with daughter there .. that daughter has her own cross to bear in her husband's care and well being and she doesn't want to be one more problem sitting there for her daughter to have to run circles around.

I only touched on, very briefly .. that she may need more than AL ... at this point. I only touched on, .. oh this won't be a matter that she is squared away in a facility next weekend, .. there is a reverse mortgage on her home .. there are a LOT LOT LOT of loose ends that have to be seen to, .. and a LOT LOT LOT that will have to be done .. to get it all figured out as to funding her ability to be in a supervised setting.

I didn't belabor it .. he wouldn't be the one on that issue anyway, it would be SIL .. so why lay all that at his feet.

I am just astounded. I had just begun to get on the page that this is what life will be, going forward .. SIL from afar, .. directing, micro-managing .. all that is life here .. absent my presence/participation in it, .. and it's going to get really ugly/sticky/messy .. because it's apparent this isn't going to happen until she has some major calamity befall her and there is no other choice at all.

DH said, "So .. you can call mom later this morning and let her know that I told you of her decision and talk to her".

I haven't done so yet and it may be a few days before I do. I need some time myself to wrap my brain around it all.

While this is ultimately what you'd hoped for - "congratulations" doesn't quite seem appropriate. But it is a good thing.

MIL will get better care. Plus, I think this speaks well for her cognitive abilities- that she is still able to reason and make smart - difficult - but smart choices.

My only word of caution would be that SIL "strike while the iron is hot" and all that. Before MIL can change her mind.

This might mean you are going to need to step back up - in a different capacity to help move things quickly in the desired direction - 1000k away. But it would be in your best interest to do so.

I would not be surprised if this comes as bad news for SIL as she may have been hoping to manage from afar for a long time to come. SIL may through up road blocks and/or drag her feet. Don't let her - even if it means you have to take the lead. The end result is what matters here.

And don't worry about AL not being enough - that NH care would be better. That will run its course if that's the situation - but AFTER MIL is in SILs backyard, not yours.

Do try to talk to MIL as soon as possible- some positive affirmation would probably help mil feel more confident about this decision. Less likely to back out. 

Sorry, Rain - I'm not sure I agree with the above rosy interpretation.
Dorker, many a slip twixt cup and lip as my mother quoted. Why are you supposed to talk with MIL about her decision? Your DH is trying to reel you back in, m'dear. Are you interested in packing? I think that MIL finally hit the "I can't do it wall" when you backed off leaving her with uninvolved DH and your daughter was unavailable to take over 24/7 duties. If MIL means it, she should discuss with the people responsible for making it happen and it should NOT be you leading the way, because it has been proven that you will not be listened to - the decision is only Narcissa - and she can change her mind just as easily. I'm ready, not ready, need landscaping, don't want to hire, blah-blah. Now all those AL's that are contacting SIL can be brought on board. I would not recommend how to conduct the move at all - you will be brought into the review of beloved items and the inability to get rid of any and the packing and ....Let SIL and MIL and DH review and decide. "I'm so glad you decided to relocate and relieve your stress about your day to day life. I'm sure that your children DH and SIL will be very relieved and happy to help you organize it. My daughter and the twins and the 4 year old have kept me so busy, that I'm sure it will be a relief to have access to the daily help you need. Hay, did you see the latest episode of About Us? How do you think Jack died?"

No problem, Guestshop. I fully admit I'm letting my own experience with getting my parents out of their house and into IL color my opinion.

My mother said "maybe it's time..." and I had a two bedroom apartment in IL on hold for them within an hour! It was a place where my dads brother and his wife were living - so that helped streamline the search.

But the thing was - both my parents were fresh off of rehab stays. I knew that as soon as they were feeling better - dug back into a house they could no longer manage or be safe in - they would change their minds.

Rain, likewise colored by my MIL. She's in AL needing help with late stage Parkinson's that had UTI's and non-compliance med problems and finally a catheter. Now that she's been there several months and doing better with 24/7 assistance, physical therapy and regular meals, and med administration, the "I'd be able to manage at home" lament has begun again and FIL is echoing (he got the bill for co-pay:) MIL and FIL had a meal with us Sunday and tried to rope us into the discussion. My go-to is now "huh" followed by silence.

It’s good that The Move is MIL’s idea.

Agree with Guestshop. Let her kids deal with the house and cleaning it out. Call her to say “good move” but that’s it. DH/SIL will be happy to delegate that to Dorker as well.
Dorker, let it go. Out of your hands. There’s a lot of work ahead - don’t get roped in. DH can do this last thing for her even if he has to put his church on hold.
Let them hire a moving company to pack as well. The kids need to go through the sentimental items to be divided up.
You got what you wanted, she needs supervised care.
I’m afraid when they find out the price of AL she will chicken out.

Dorker,
Good News!

Proceed carefully. I do agree with some of the others about getting involved or doing ALL of the packing MIL up for the move...even being directed by MIL.

There will be questions during the unpack weeks, months later...Where's this? What happened to that? I would have liked to have had this or that!

I too am letting my experience sway me here. The question after question! If you aren't prepared to tell everyone "you sent me in to do the job, I did it so shut the he!! up. You guys were too busy to participate remember?" Then don't get involved,

Shane1124: "I’m afraid when they find out the price of AL she will chicken out." I was wondering about this, too. Narcissa has just about no assets, and only some states allow Medicaid to pay for Assisted Living (Florida is one of them, and it has a waiting list).

I hope that Dorker and H won't be expected to contribute thousands of dollars per month for Narcissa's AL stay!

Here's what I expect will happen next, and someone else here already mentioned it.

I'm waiting, with baited breath, at this point, .. what will the "valid argument" be that SIL presents as to why this isn't necessary. I think, SIL .. has been quite okay with "managing from afar" .. sans the trips here every few months where she works like an absolute race-horse.

I fully expect there will be some *valid* argument presented, from that corner, as to why this isn't a good idea and that we need to leave mother "status quo". I expect it.

I haven't put in a call to SIL with a whole mantra of "SEE! This is what I've said all along here, .. and EVEN SHE SEES it now!". Fully expecting there will be some pushback from that corner. And I can't deal with that, nor should I have to. It's between she and her brother.

I know this morning when DH shared that tidbit with me .. I asked him what were his sister's thoughts. He then jumped and said to himself *oh yea, .. I meant to get ahold of her, let me text her right now and ask her to call me later*.

I don't know if she's done so, at this point, . .and what that result might've been.

SIL lives in IL.

I have no idea what their rules are there, as to Medicaid funding for facilities.

SIL, who can uncover every stone in every corner, will now have to take that ball and run with it, .. as to what/how/where, etc. (but again, I'm betting ... she will have what she considers a valid argument why this isn't necessary).

I think that's, at least in part, why I haven't called MIL with my sentiments .. nor SIL. I expect there will be some *other* side to the whole scenario.

If it looks as though "i's" are getting dotted, and "t's" crossed .. then I will offer to assist in some way .. as things progress. But no, I'm not hopping into it all, to begin to sort through how one dispenses with a reverse mortgaged house and yet finding a way to get funding via Medicaid and where that might be, and so forth. Not getting into all of it, that's for her offspring to sort through and we know DH .. he remains on the periphery, firmly entrenched there.

I do think, if it's at all doable, .. where SIL lives is best. She is retired .. she has the time to do the extra things that MIL will need, .. provided all things fall into place somewhere in all this mess. I think where she lives, is better, as opposed to here. There is nothing tying her to staying here. It's not at all like she has other family here, other than her son (who is on the periphery always) .. and myself, .. and our daughters .. who, I've explained, are otherwise occupied with their own lives. That's all she has here. In the entire state. It's not like she's entrenched here because of her friends or her church. Not at all.

I am waiting for the other shoe to drop here, .. that's all I can say at this point.

And yes, it's going to be a huge mess to sort through.

We opted for AL in my southern state, rather than my sister's northern one because of cost. What we found was that there are far more retirement communities, AL etc. here because of people who retired in the warm climate. So we were able to have options in her price range. It still wasn't cheap, especially when you add things like medication management, wheelchair transport to meals and activities, shower assistance, etc. Hopefully there are some decent options in SIL's area.

I know you won't be the one to look into this, but it looks like Medicaid WILL pay for AL in IL. That's a very good thing!

Oh and just another point of interest and me being the cynic I have become, I didn't see the "merit" in this action.

Yesterday, in the mail, a small envelope came, addressed to YD, from SIL.

It was a thank you card .. and inside a small check for $25.

A thank you note, for taking MIL to the doctor and errands. And a small note, "let me know if you are able to assist with other doc visits and errands", after the kind words thanking YD.

Now, why be a cynic? It was just a sweet thank you card, with some compensation. Why be a cynic about such a thing?

Well, ... YD has done .. in the past .. for MIL, .. the above and other things .. washing the dog for her, running errands, .. doc visits, .. etc etc.

It's never been "compensated" previously, .. nor a special effort at a thank you card.

YD loves her grandma .. and has done in the past .. for that reason solely. But .. has, at times, become aggravated at how much there is to do, never-ending .. and that it would end up taking what would be her only day off, only to the next week, same thing, different needs. It would aggravate her.

And I've said that to SIL in the past, .. as to the fact that YD isn't going to be anyone that can be routinely counted upon to be up to bat with it all. She is 24 yo, .. she has her own interests/life .. and she will help .. absolutely she will. But .. not when it takes all day of what is her day off, consistently. She has a problem with that. And I've said that to SIL (this is back when I was on the front, but maybe I was spent .. having taken my time with various issues, and so YD would step in and do some).

So, the way I read that little thank you card and the check sent to her for compensation, if she can line YD's pockets .. then YD might .. maybe possibly .. one can hope (if you're SIL) .. YD may be more amiable to stepping into Dorker's spot to do what Dorker will no longer do. Line her pockets and you stand a better chance, .. or maybe that's the chance SIL was trying to take.

And if it matters, no .. I never rec'd a thank you card, (verbal thank you's, by the gazillions) ... nor any monetary compensation. Nor did I ask for it. Nor, for that matter, would it, at this point, plant me firmly back in any of it.

I never did any of it that I did, with a mindset towards compensation. I didn't ask for any, and none ever came.

But a sure fire way to get a *kid* (legally an adult, but still, to me, a kid) in your corner. Pay them. Especially a kid, who still lives at home, because she doesn't make enough $, to move out, which is what she wants more than anything in the world, to be on her own and not living with mommy and daddy.

No, .. what SIL can throw her way is in no way going to make it so she can move out, and she's not stupid, she knows that.

But sure, .. any "kid" her age, throw money at the problem, .. they will more than likely step up to bat.

So, yes, .. perhaps it was done with nothing more in mind than shear gratitude, ..

But that's not how it was read by me. I see an ulterior motive in it.

All I said to YD, .... "well that was nice of her, .. you'll have to thank her for recognizing your sweet efforts with your g'ma .. but do . .like I told you .. be very careful, you do remember .. I'm sure .. how you were called to that scene time and time again .. to the tune that your days off were spent in geriatric need .. and you were growing weary of it, .. be very careful ... it will swallow you up, the need".

CTTN55, thanks for the link. Good to know. Though, .. it appears she has to be an IL resident, which she is not. So I don't know how that will be addressed. But again, I'm out of all this ..

(As I said before, I will step in, to assist, if it looks as though things are making forward progress .. and this is going to actually take place ... I will help ... but not until). Not going down more rabbit holes.

I'm curious why MIL is thinking that she should go to Illinois; it would be MUCH easier if she stayed in Florida. Her kids need to talk to her about this.

However, I believe that I read that one of the provisions of ACA is that if a person has established Medicaid eligibility in one state, another state cannot then impose a residency requirement.

DH and SIL need to be talking to each other and to an Eldercare attorney.

Barb, maybe MIL is thinking about the recent situation with the hurricanes. Also, SIL is more likely to be doing the fetching than DH or Dorker.

Also, call me old fashioned, but a mom needs her daughter and vice versa. My mom lived in New Jersey & I in Maryland. She was less than a four hour drive away (210 miles to be exact) which to me was not a problem & I  went frequently. I really wanted to get her down here but she wouldn’t leave my brother, who has a mental illness and she felt he needed her more than I did as I had my hubby and family. She would never leave him alone. Thankfully my brother did everything for my mom, never got an argument from him ever. It got rough there before she got sick and had to go to a NH as b/o my mom’s escalating dementia she would sneak outside in the middle of the night to give her leftovers to the animals (depression baby) under my brother’s nose but undetected, and took a couple swings at my brother with what was becoming regular screaming matches (her doing the screaming), and almost set her apartment on fire forgetting she left her oil deep fryer on in the kitchen. Caused soot all over the kitchen walls that brother had to clean.

 You don’t want to go there Dorker, as your MIL slowing sinks into the abyss of dementia petite Catholic who had never missed Mass since my dad died in 1965, as time progresses. My mother, who never cursed, the swore like a sailor during those days and made even me blush. Oh yeah, lots of fun. *F* bombs all the time in a pretty loud voice.

Those ever increasing episodes were akin to grabbing my heart out piece by piece. I shed many many tears.  It was awful seeing her decline. And dealing with her unfounded anger. Once she got me by the hair at the nursing home while I bent to reach my cell phone that had fallen under her bed. Her bed was by the door, not the window, & I just remember the looks of the people passing by the room. She didn’t hurt me much as I adjusted my head height to her grasp. How sad that her mind had left her. 

Oh boy, those were the days....when I would get called anywhere between 11pm - 3am to be the Referee because mom was harassing my brother for reasons know only to her. Packed my bags, called my boss to call out of work and head to NJ. 

Fascinating Dorker that you think your sister will find a way to foil this plan!
Wow!

Let’s see if MIL’s stubbornness endures now that she has decided to go to AL, if SIL puts up road blocks. Hope MIL stays true to form. 

Get her on Medicaid stat! Even if it’s in Florida so it can be transferred. From my experience that’s not too difficult but does require time and paperwork.
Oh my! Anxious to see how this develops.

I still would have preferred she be nearer to me hands down as she was my beloved mom. 

Can’t wait to hear your updates!