I've posted before about in-law care-giving. Aged mother in law, lives in same town.
We are at the tail end of a visit from sister in law from several states away. Sister in law has been here for 3 weeks caring for her mother. A much welcome respite.
It had been discussed, prior to her arrival here on the scene, she would be talking it over with her mother, to try and get her mom to come up to her home, for a stay of maybe a few months.
This, in my opinion, is absolutely essential, as I am expecting twin grand-children, due in about 1 month (if they don't come sooner, as is the case a lot of times with multiples pregnancies). The expectant mother also lives locally here, and has a 4 year old daughter. I will be on that front, helping .. as much as is needed. And not on the front with mother in law and care-giving, and have made that as obvious and apparent as I know how to make it. It would be great if mother in law would agree to go to her daughter's home (several states away) for a period of a few months .. and allow me the latitude to put my energies where I want them to be, on my daughter who will have had a c-section .. and my grand-daughter (4 years old) and new twin babies.
Nothing doing. Mother in law has dug in her heels, and will not hear of it, going to stay with her daughter for any period of time.
What are her reasons?
In mother in law's defense ... her daughter ... I don't even know how to describe it. I will say that when her daughter comes here to visit, she all but breathes for her mother and if she could find a way to do that, she'd do that too. She is the most nervous nelly, never sit down - ever ... worry wart, do everything, all the time .. person that I've ever encountered.
A great example, as I was taking her to the airport yesterday for her departure, . I reached into the fridge to grab myself a bottled water and shut the fridge and turned to walk away, as I've done for all of my 50 plus years living on this earth .. and she said to me, "Oh make sure that fridge shut". WTH???? Like I don't know how to shut a fridge? That's just a small, very small slice of what she is ... how she is.
She is so very hyper-vigilant, seeing to every minute details down to it's finest most minuscule point, fine tooth comb, questioning every point along the way, "should we do thus and so, but maybe if we do thus and so, then such and such will happen, maybe we should do it thus and so .. but then so and so might happen, maybe we shouldn't do thus and so, but do "x" "y" and "z" instead, but if we don't do it that way then ..........", on and on and on and on it goes. And usually in hyper warp speed, as to every single friggin thing.
If her mother moans .. "what's wrong mother?, why did you moan, are you alright?".
Mother: "Yes, I'm fine, I was just sighing out loud".
Sister: "Why did you sigh? Are you hurting, are you sure you're alright, why are you sighing what's the matter?"
Mother: "For God's sake __________________, I was just sighing, .. calm down, I'm fine".
Sister: "Are you sure, .. because if something is wrong you need to tell me".
Mother: "Everything is fine, I'm fine".
Sister: "Are you sure, we did a lot yesterday, did we do too much, maybe we shouldn't of gone to two doctors in one day .. was that too much for you, are you too tired now, maybe we need to move those other doctor appointments so we won't have two in one day, is that too much for you, for one day .. is that why you were sighing .. what's wrong, are you sure you're alright".
Hopefully that kinda gives a little bit of a snapshot of what goes on when sister is in the ring directing things.
So in mother in law's defense.. I do get it, why she wouldn't be chomping at the bit to go to her daughter's home.
BUT ....
The only experience she has with her daughter, in the last years as mother in law has aged and been unable to go anywhere much, has been the daughter coming here, periodically, for periods of about 3 weeks at a stretch. When her daughter comes here, she moves heaven and earth for her mother and then some, and doesn't sit down, doesn't stop .. the WHOLE ENTIRE TIME.
Is there a possibility maybe (as I said to mother in law, when she expressed that isn't happening - talking to me - her going to her daughters .. ever) .. could it be possible that maybe if you would go to where she lives .. she'd be more busy managing her own life in that setting than your's and she would get out of your backside .. and not be as hyper-drive-vigilant as you experience in her, when she's here, could that be possible.
The daughter is retired, lives several states away. Does come here, generally, every few months .. and stays for a period of about 3 weeks at a stretch. I wish I could make a list of everything the daughter did when here this last time, but it would take up the whole character allotment:
As my mother entered old age she managed to find even more reasons to see this doctor or that specialist. Normal, I guess as old age does bring its own new set of physical issues. To a point.
Firmly established into “old age”, as my mothers world began to narrow - fewer friends, my father gone, driving privileges rescinded, I noticed that my mother started to become even more focused on her “need” to go to this doctor or that specialist. It dawned on me that this had become her hobby - her social outlet - both in going and after - in giving her something to talk about. Looking ailments and remedies up on her computer and in her bible of choice - her Merk Manual.
When dementia began creeping in things shifted into a whole new high gear. Obsessing on her calendar and the dates and times that she had written in. Checking and rechecking appointment times against appointment reminders she received in the mail or on the computer. Reading and rereading her After Visit Summaries. Calling me - and then calling me again at all hours of the day and night to remind me of an upcoming appointment. I wrote here at AC once about the time she called me at 5am in complete hysteria because I wasn’t there yet to take her to her 11 o’clock appointment.
Then an unexpected thing happened. All of a sudden - it all stopped. It seems the dementia had progressed to the point that all this obsessing, all these doctors and specialist just fell off her radar.
Shortly after that a Geriatric Psychitrist reduced most of moms medications - started a few for her dementia. Shortly after that hospice became involved and other than the “mood medications” mom was taken off of everything.
Know what happened? Absolutely nothing. I mean, seriously - does a 89 year old woman really need to be taking hormone replacement?
My point? How much of all those doctors and dentists and eye specialist are really necessary? How many are a social outlet? How many are SILs idea of “the solution, the magic pill, the fixer”? How many will fall away - with no consequence- when Dorker is no long providing the transportation, the lunch after, the many “can we just swing by the...” on the way home?
Yours and mine both! It’s amazing how many of the speciality dog foods and treats are available on Amazon. Even the supposedly “Vet only” ones. The treats my dogs get are labeled “only available from a Veterinarian” yet I order them from Amazon with no problem whatsoever- and at 1/3 of the price our vet office charges!
I personally admire you for not telling SIL and MIL to jog on. Makes a barrel of monkeys look boring.
You asked a couple days ago-"what would YOU do in this situation, going forth" (paraphrashing)--but I got the gist.
I would:
Have the meeting with SIL and then step away 100% from this mess. Tell SIL, DH and whomever you need to that you will no longer be a factor in propping up the charade of this woman's incessant needs.
When you listed all the "stuff" she NEEDS, it really hit me this morning. She could have 2- 24/7 caregivers living with her and it would not be enough.
Just her "basic needs" list is daunting.
WHY does she need/want/expect all this to be done for her? Well, that's begging the question in a true Narcissist, she TRULY does not think outside her own walls.
Dorker--you put one little toe in the murky waters and you will be quickly sucked right back into it all. The fact you are up in the middle of the night mulling this over tells me that you are obsessing over something that is NO LONGER your problem.
Giving SIL that list you made is probably smart. No doubt she's aware of the enormity of the needs, she probably has never sat down long enough to get organized to the point where she actually sees the whole picture. Too busy on the hamster wheel.
I WOULD call 911, if needed. And I WOULD meet MIL at the hospital. But I would NOT do another thing for her, simply b/c she has proved to be A: completely non-compliant and B: completely unable to manage. Her expectations won't be lowered, she isn't about that, that isn't her, right?
I wouldn't fuss about her transport, her grocery delivery, her stupid dog (and I love dogs). I would live my own life, love on those grandbabies and help the people in your life who appreciate you and don't tear you down.
Huge difference between "service" and servitude".
I wish you luck going forward. Personally, I think all the planning for all contingencies is pointless. She will have a fall, or a heath crisis of some kind and she'll be back in the hospital. Since you started this post, 11 months ago--how many trips to the ER has she required? How many emergencies? And everyone thinks that suddenly by employing Ubers (no way she can manage that if she cannot use a cell phone) and Amazon delivery (who will pick up the box on the porch?)..she's still seeing at least one dr per week, it seems.
This lady has outlived her sell by date. Doesn't mean she doesn't deserve love and attention and care, but y'all are just propping her up--by sheer will. It won't last.
The ONLY way she will get the care she requires is to be sent to a NH from a hospital, and for THAT I would be one squeaky wheel.
Just my 2 cents. I wonder how many people will agree with me that this is going to drive you into an early grave or ruin your marriage completely....not wanting it to, but I have seen less strong people fall apart from the sheer stress of trying to please their elders.
Just my opinion. Your MIL wants everything to be just so. Well, people in hell want ice water. Sometimes ( most times) you don't get what you want. At 88 you'd think this lady would have that figured out.
As always--best to you. Hang tough.
And, go see your therapist. ASAP. You need some clarity.
~Liz
Question: Medication Management? It was my experience 6 years ago that Home Health aides could not load pill boxes or hand clients meds. Said aides could only remind clients to take meds.
I really don’t think that when SIL heads home that MIL will be the slight bit interested in going to all the “Maintenance” appointments. Of course SIL will continue to schedule them as before, MIL won’t feel like going that day, appt gets cancelled. Then SIL starts wringing hands and gnashing her teeth, and starts texting Dorker.
I see MIL only interested in POSSIBLY wanting to see a Dr if she is sick, if she hasn’t passed the point of physically feeling like traveling to the appointment. Or, appointments required to get meds prescribed...maybe. Elders expect that a simple call to the Dr should suffice to get An Rx ordered.
I am curious, will MIL even entertain the idea of getting into a wheelchair if and when a Home Health Worker needs to take her to an appointment?
As to the answer as to these appts and the necessity thereof. I can only tell you that when SIL arrived here in December, was supposed to be xmas and only xmas, and then she'd be off and gone again, but MIL fell and you all know that story. She'd carted MIL off to an eye appt (eyes dialated) that was on the radar and seen to, she'd also hauled her to the cardio doc for a ... get ready for this ... "stress test". Now I'm no medical professional ... I certainly will be the first to admit that ... but ... MIL has long since dispensed with mammograms, PAPS and the like, as well as colonoscopy .. and I would think, at her age, stress tests should fall under that same category as unnecessary. DH and I both were astounded .. "Why would they put her through that, .. at her age, . what can they possibly do if they find some issue .. that's senseless!". SIL's explanation .. "they wanted to measure the ejection fraction in her CHF". Uh no, I call B/S on that ... MIL was hospitalized this past July and in that setting, they measured ejection fraction via echo .. a stress test doesn't provide measure of Ejection Fraction. So .. .is SIL running hither and yon to docs to justify her existence. Yes, indeed .. appears so to me, in some cases.
When SIL was here over the summer, that's when she took on the notion that vein ablation and that would suddenly be the miracle cure for the edema in the legs. I, on the other hand, (again .. I'm no med professonal) said at the time, that's nothing but snakoil sales tactics .. that's cosmetic at best .. it's not going to alleviate edema that's born out of CHF .. that's the problem is the CHF and the failure to take her meds as she needs to, there's your problem .. you don't need to be doing all that. The Home Health nurse concurred with my stance .. and looked askance at them for following that path, stating what I did, "it's cosmetic at best". Turned out in the end .. the cardio doc says .. lymphedema .. and no .. vein ablation wouldn't of helped.
GEE GO FIGURE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
And no, I'd begged off of being any assistance in carting to the numerous vein ablation procedures it took.
So YES ................. INDEED ..................some of this is SIL hopping onto that hamster wheel to run it at full tilt .. as I described of her, when I started this whole thread.
I'm not a medical professional (again) so I don't usually enter into debate over what's necessary and what isn't.
I don't intend .. as I said, to enter into any of this, any further, .. with them. They want her seen a total of approximately 50 to 75 times in a year, for varying different things .. THEY can work out those logistics .. I'm out of it. But was just hoping to be able to offer suggestions.
As I've said of SIL .. she of the persuasive/cajoling/debate the finer points ilk. When she's informed that I won't be stepping on that train, there will be pushback . in the "oh well, .. ya know she really has to have those tears ducts checked, and ya know, they have to watch after that histioplasmosis .. they have to keep a watch on that, .. and she has to go to the cardio doc, they have to check her, and she has to go to the knee doc for her steroid injection and ..............................", on and on it will go.
I don't care .. go to a specialist every day if that's what you wanna do, go to 3 of them every day ..
As I said to DH this morning, with regard to what all it takes to prop up poochy .. his response, "The dog needs to pass on". Reality DH .. the dog isn't going to pass on .. she will breathe her last breath into his snout and she will spend her last dollar, propping him up, he's not going anywhere. As I continued on "one is entitled, IMO, to own as many pets with as many special needs as they can conjure up ... I don't care .. but when that pet care now needs this much propping up .. and they can't do it on their own . that's where I step off".
So .. I was just looking to see what some others have utilized as to suggestions.
And yes, we do have public transport here for those who are disabled .. and it's free and/or low cost .. and one simply has to qualify (and she certainly does). But look at the limitations of said service, .. not one of royalty would ever succumb to such constrictions .. there will be pushback if that's the suggestion.
So that's fine .. don't use public transport and all their rules you find so abhorrent .. then pay UBER ... or GOGOGRANDPARENT .. or LYFT .. or a private taxi .. or a neighbor ........... I don't care.
I pretty much figure that MIL is just doing what people her age do - as their health, capabilities and control begin to deminish with advanced age. I base my opinion on my experience with my own parents and on the hundreds of posts that I’ve read here. Expecting MIL to become more realistic, more compliant, more reasonable makes as much sense- to me - as expecting her to fly - sans airplane.
My issue is with the people around her propping it up - SIL - or conversly standing off - dh. There is a happy medium that works but Dorker seems to be the only adult in the room who seems to understand that. And, unfortunately for Dorker, expressing that and trying to stand her ground on that has put her relationships with the people involved in jeopardy. And, of all the nutty and just plain chitty assessments made by the others involved- she has been made out to be the person who is behaving badly - not willing to be a team player.
Of course, we all here - having been through it and/or currently dealing with it - we recognize that Dorker is right. Many of us - parent(s) not wanting to go to a facility, not wanting to award DPOA- still managed to pull a rabbit out of our azz- and made it happen. Because? Wait for it... Because it was in our parents best interest. It’s what kept them safe. It was what kept them as healthy as possible. It’s what kept them up off the floor laying in a puddle of their own waste for a day or two. It was more than the right thing to do -the responsible thing to do - it was the humane thing to do. Did my mother want to move into a nursing home? Oh HELL No!!! But my brother and I made it happen - and contrary to my brother opinion of himself - there’s nothing extraordinary about us. No special talent or gift that made this happen.
However, for the dozens of guesses and conjecture as to why this is beyond dh and SIL to accomplish - to realize this - it boils down to - they don’t. And it’s their vote that counts, right? Dorker gets no vote. Which, btw is another thing I take issue with. As SILs own daughter said “it effects your life, you get a vote”.
But instead of a vote, Dorker get to have a talk. A talk to tell SIL just how much or how little Dorker is willing to do by way of propping. Suggestions will be made. Lists will be made. And in the end, this situation will fail. And, it’s anyones guess as to just how dismal MIL life will become before it does.
Herein lays my main concern. MIL is gone or in a NH. Dorker is left with dh and sil. Does anyone actually think that either of them will say “Gee Dorker, you were right”. “Gee Dorker, I wish we had listened to you”?
Instead, I believe, there’s gonna be a whole lot of hurt feelings, anger and resentment. And, I also believe the damage to these relationship will be irreparably.
Which brings me full circle to the problems with this whole cluster of problems that existed on day one of this thread and problems that are still there - and even more apparent- today.
The question remains - just what is Dorker to do? Just how much - how far should Dorker be willing to go? I do believe only Dorker can answer that. But as it sits, I can only suggest - that Dorker- that you take a good hard look - not at MIL and not so much at SIL - but at dh and ask yourself as honestly as possible, what you’d like this relationship with this man to look like when all this is over.
Im not saying to cave in - to fold like a cheap deck chair - to return to stepping and fetching and diving down rabbit holes. But to determine a compromise that will leave your marriage in tack - if that’s what you still want.
I'd make a spreadsheet of all those appointments and their frequency. Put it on the fridge. No commentary needed. Just leave it up there.
That is SO not the life of someone looking for" the cloud".
If you decide to go over for a short while every now and then, I'm sure you know that the short while can get complicated and drag on.
Oh I hope you can work out something with SIL or really just say it is too much.
Dad had a hip operation at 89 which he should have had years ago - that's another story - so got off Vicodin and also off most of the other stuff. In the end - 2 meds - Lasix was one, don't recall the other. Had a great year and then other complications but not due to meds.
DERMATOLOGIST - 2 x's annually, unless there's a problem .. and sometimes there is, requisite of another visit .. to burn off squamous cell carcinomas.
Been with my grand daughter all day and tonight. I have been in such a funk since I got the news last week that the course has shifted, .. that I really haven't felt up to spending much time with me, much less anyone else.
When this thread was originated by me, the basis for it... I was expecting the birth of twin g'children here locally and knew that my presence would be needed on that front, . very much so.
I asked, in light of that fact, .. could/would MIL consider going to IL for a while, .. so that I wouldn't have to concern myself with her woes and could be free to focus my energies where I needed to, on my daughter and her 4 yo .. and the upcoming twins arrival.
No can do, flat out refused that as even so much as a consideration
I then asked, and made it known, to all involved .. I can't keep doing this, not and do for my daughter and my g'children .. I need more help .. can we not engage some of the neighbors in some of this, .. some of our church folks that have been kind enough to offer to help. I can't keep doing this.
That too, was flat out refused, absolutely not.
Remember, the mantra often repeated "I will manage, .. I know what I must do, and I will do it, I will be fine".
Only I've been hearing that for two years .. but had hung in there .. UNTIL .. the precept that I would be needed .. sorely needed .. on another front. And I knew it, and spoke up in ample time.
Flat out refused.
The only other two parties to any of this that could've/should've had any persuasion to the contrary .. to persuade MIL to look at things from a different prism .. turned a blind eye/ear to the whole thing.
Fast forward to all these months later. Daughter has had her twins and yes I was on the front there .. helping her .. and it took, .. seriously .. probably a good six months for her to get her feet firmly planted in it all, gradually getting better footing.
I was pulled away from that front, one time, in the initial stages.. (and I regret leaving that front) for a hospitalization of MIL's. I wouldn't do it that way again .. given the same circumstances .. MIL would be on her own, and my feet would stay firmly entrenched where I was sorely needed, my daughter and her situation.
However, daughter is now firmly planted in what she does .. and she doesn't "need" me. Well, .. she ... does get overwhelmed at times, and could use a "break" .. and I give her that, but not at all, like it was in those beginning months.
Some might argue, .. your daughter is now handling it all like a pro .. so .. step back, headlong into the other direction where you are sorely needed.
Having been away from that scene for several months now .. and the realization .. even though I knew it at the time .. but the realization that life doesn't have to be, and shouldn't be, all about serving the queen .. and her whims ..
That indeed, there could and SHOULD be some compromise, especially in the realm of the one who "needs" (MIL).
I realize .. the likelihood she will EVER get on a plane or in a car, to go to her daughter's in IL . for any duration .. be that a few months or a few more .. likely it will never happen. I don't agree with that, but that's immaterial what my thoughts are.
So what remains is ..
The management and well being of leaving her there, in her home and what that looks like and how that falls and on whom?
I guess .. if I were to sit and get my husband's attention (her son) to the matter fully (can't do that .. he is not engaged remember, GOD KNOWS I HAVE TRIED) .. if I were to ask him, "so I want you to spell out for me, on this piece of paper, .. what is it that you find tolerable and not tolerable as to my participation or lack thereof with regard to your mom and that situation.
If he said, as an example, "that's my mom, .. she needs . you hop .. go running .. I want you to do as she needs .. if you can .. I want you on it, if Sister can't be here .. whatever it is".
That would be a no-go on my part. And if I said to him, "I am not going to then remain in this marriage because that is nothing I agree to do going forward".
Then, there we'd have it.
He STILL .. in the above set up .. would not have all bases covered for his dear sweet queen mom. Because I would .. hate to do it .. and throw in the towel on a marriage going on 40 years .. but if that's what his make or break is . as to our marriage . then .. I would have no choice.
I think that is wholly unfair and unjust and wouldn't stand for it.
Not when I know, I've lived it, what the demand is.
So .. in that premise .. then let's look at what remains .. his wife .. who yes, has more time than he does .. indeed, I do.
Let's look at the absolutely overwhelming need (want/whims).
I still maintain .. and always have .. that hasn't changed. I can't keep doing all this, .. we need add'l help.
It sounds as though some of that conclusion, has been arrived at .. at least in the notion that SIL is working to engage a self-pay HHC agency.
What remains to be sorted out, .. is this ... the HHC .. "SIL what is it you are looking to them to manage?". Let's get an answer to that.
At least there is even initial stages of talking about engaging something/someone else in it all. At one point that wasn't even a factor that would even so much as cause a ripple in any of it .. even though I was shouting from every rooftop I could find .. "I can't keep doing this".
As of right now, I don't have an answer, as to what it is she intends to have the HHC address.
I know there has been some backpedaling as to the expense of same, so it sounds like that has just about as much chance of being nixed as it does of going forward. But as of right now, SIL has not yet made the time to sit down and talk with me about the particulars of the whole thing, nor has she made the time to sit down and talk with me, about where my problems lie in it all. Not yet.
I maintain and will maintain my stance, I can't (and won't) do it all. Not any longer. DH .. his responsibilities fall within home maintenance issues . always have and always will. But everything outside of that, was falling to me sans SIL's presence here. I won't do that again... not in it's entirety.
DH . if I were to have a discussion with him on the topic .. in fact, his sister will hear it when I do sit down to talk to her . and the mother will too, when this gets discussed. Absent any willingness to compromise .. in any of this .. and engage add'l help .. then yea you got it, I'm out .. you guys can figure it out .. and if that means that I need to hit the pavement, because my husband is going to choose his queen mother over his wife .. and her wants in it all, then I guess it was pretty much of a sham of a marriage then .. so yea hit the bricks. Get gone!
Not anything I want to have to do. ... for sure ... but I also don't "want" to have to jump headlong into what I was doing previously either. So .. somewhere in it all, a compromise ...???..... as I asked in the beginning and have all through .. ???.... is that at all possible ...???....
Thought tonight's little exchange via text with SIL (always text .. never a phone call),.. or an in person visit, thought it was interesting.
I couldn't devote much time to any exchange of dialogue as I had the 4 yo here . and we rented a kid movie and she wanted me to watch it with her .. and that's why she's here, for me to spend time with her, so that's what I did .. ultimately begging off with SIL that I needed to spend time with my g'daughter and would talk to her next week when she comes here.
Went like this:
SIL: Have you ever heard of GoGoGrandparents?
Me: "I have .. yes .. just heard of them .. haven't had a lot of time to look at much about it, but from what little I've seen, looks viable to me".
SIL: Mom seems afraid of it .. I could use my cc to set it up.
Me: Maybe give it a try tomorrow, you have PT for both your mom and your husband, .. the info says you can specify the size of car and the driver will be adept at knowing the person may have some ambulatory issues.
SIL: Maybe next week, I know tomorrow their appts are later in the day and we plan to go somewhere for dinner out, after PT.
Me: No answer
SIL: (a few mins later) "Looks like it's 21 cents per minute.
Me: Sounds reasonable to me, 30 mins one way, you're talking $6 and some change and the same for the return trip.
SIL: She might feel ok going to PT with that, but I don't know .. like . her ortho doc way on the other side of town and a lot of traffic between here and there .. she may not want to do that, for that kinda thing, that far would be too scary to her".
(I wanted to interject and argue .. scary how???? WTH???? what's scary about it .. just do it), but I also wanted to get back to the movie and enjoy my g'daughter.
Above last transmission got ignored by me, no response.
SIL: (a few mins later) "not sure when they start charging, . when they are on their way or when they pick you up?".
No response from me, ignored.
SIL: (a few more mins later) "I'm gonna also talk to C, (neighbor) and a couple of the MOW delivery drivers are local college kids and have offered to help. Just not real sure about this HHC agency .. it looks like it might be too costly. Wonder .. about YD's life these days and her availability?".
ME: (purposely avoiding now and diverting any further dialogue) "I have grand daughter for the night, we have a rented DVD and she wants me to watch it, so I gotta cut off for now, we'll talk more when you can make it over this way".
SIL: "OK, sounds good".
Now . the above dialogue .. shows me that what was being done previously that caused me to exit .. the absolute staunch refusal to involve neighbors .. 3rd parties anywhere .. maybe no longer such a staunchly dug in fact, as it was several months ago. That's good, .. that's something I can work with.
She is talking of maybe speaking with the neighbor, speaking with some of the MOW drivers. That's good. That's an improvement.
Not the time/place to jump into that dialogue however, not when I have my grand daughter here and want to spend time with her, rather than sort thru the logistics of the where/how .. of the above. Thus, I purposely didn't speak to any of it and begged off, to go spend time with my grand daughter .. and that was quite on purpose on my part.
I don't know what the above looks like, in real time .. as to the who/where/how .. and transport and so forth .. haven't even had time to sort it all out nor do I have any answers from either SIL or MIL on their willingness to accept some change.
But .. I need to sort out in my own mind .. let's say that there is willingness on MIL's part now to .............*let the neighbor take her to a doc appt, and/or pick up something from the way of pet supply and or rx's .. or groceries*. Let's say there is now willingness to allow for grocery delivery .. let's say there is willingness to allow that a neighbor or a MOW driver (willing to help) is able to take to some doc appts ..
There is compromise .. and it pleases me.
So where do I fall in all the need .. when there might be the presence of others to help (FINALLY) .. that would need to be sorted thru, absolutely ..
I don't sit here and say to anyone .. "NOPE never gonna help again, don't matter .. do what ya'll want .. leave me out of all of it . not helping".
What I am saying and have said all along .. (along with that is reckless and asinine to leave her in her home alone, but I get it, not my decision to make) .. what I have said all along, I can't keep doing all this .. (it all defaulting to me .. all of it, sans SIL's presence, sans the home maintenance needs). I can't and won't keep doing ALL OF IT .. and MIL dig in her heels with the "now I will manage here ............". Show me you are willing to compromise and I'll show you likewise, I will do the same.
Most important in it all, since SIL seems to be the torch bearer in all things MIL's well being .. there needs to be that discussion set for next week, so that some of this can be spelled out, face to face .. and she can have a clearer understanding how I arrived to the space I'm in with it all .. along with some clearer boundaries about what makes my world turn upside down in it all, and not be a part of that and do things differently.
Til now, that hasn't been considered anything anyone was interested in taking the time to listen to.
It is a horrible situation. I'm sorry, but I feel like your husband should be more supportive of you. I guess he is torn between you and the mother. Oh boy.
Oh I am so sorry. What a tough thing.
If they aren't willing to that, I don't know. You put yourself right out there in fairness. Who could ask for more?
Please read that psychologytoday.com "How narsisist really think" and ask your husband to read it as well, you are talking about this Queen B ruining your 40 year marriage. No flippin way you or your husband should continue to let unrealistic guilt rule and ruin your lives. Scripture tells us that we cleave one to the other becoming one flesh. This is husband and wife, no mothers included. I am seriously so concerned that you are talking about joining the circus again and letting the monkey climb aboard. What has she compromised on? Letting the subject come up with out instant push back? She is already poopooing the cost of HHC and im sceared of driving across town in Uber. You don't really think she will follow through with anything short of her getting her own way, do you?
I am not trying to be hurtful, I just know from my own personal experience that you are on a dead end street with this. Let it alone until there has been change, as it stands the only change is how to manipulate Dorker back into the fetch and run, and be damn grateful I allow you back in my presence, you disobedient thing you. This is where her brain is, if it's not about her getting her way, it's about her figuring out how to get her way.
I also have to say that I think your husband is a knot head, but I also think he is being unjustly judged. He doesn't care if you help, you said that. He just wants you off his back about it. Honestly, he's right, she will do whatever she has to do to get her own way, so just let her do it, he can't change that, he just wants to have his home and wife I'm sure, not be another pain in his life about this narsistic woman, called mom.
I wish you luck, I also think you should let go and let God deal with her. Come what may, otherwise you and your family get to suffer because she doesn't care about anyone but herself and that stinken useless dog.
Find specialty foods and treats (vegetarian dog food and treats) .. find a source for what it is you need online, or change the brand you use, and find one online that works .. so that you aren't having to trouble others with the pick up of same.
Your dog needs routine grooming .. then pay for it .. even though it's more expensive .. to come to your door, grooming service.
Dog is old and ailing and frail and in need of numerous vet visits ............ more expensive yes .. and maybe not as many choices in that arena .. but pay for a mobile vet service that comes to you. If you can't get out and take care of it yourself .. then do what you need to, to deal with it, and don't over burden someone else with it, just because you decided this pet is your life's blood.
As to stepping back in, in any way at all. In the end, .. bottom line .. these are all people that I have had a 40 year relationship and have known and loved and vice versa (supposedly). I don't wish to ruin those ties .. if that's possible. I WANT to find a workable solution .. as any mature/rational adult would strive to do. BUT .. I don't want to be anyone's doormat either in it all.
And yes, .. it does appear Queenie is renigging on anything set up on a HHC agency . and likely she of the sort to renig on most things .. will back out on any help elsewhere .. from 3rd parties . insisting she of royalty have her way. The ONLY thing I can do, if I care about these people, and I do .. is to come to the table in good faith at compromise .. and I will. If they won't, .. then I don't know why anyone could fault me .. that I walk away entirely.
Set some clearer parameters around what the need is, and who/how it will be met.
One that comes immediately to mind (that MIL refused forever) grocery delivery. There's a no brainer .. one that isn't so difficult a pill to swallow. That shouldn't be on me, to haul her weekly along with everything else that was on the radar at one time .. and amble around the store for 2 and 3 hours as she chatted up every living soul she encountered there, moving at her sloth like pace.
If that's something I bring to the table as no longer willing to partake in but hey grocery delivery service, are readily available.
Let's see where that goes.
If I offer to visit one morning a week (a designated day per se) .. and .. she wants me to pick up any rx's on the way .. maybe some of those dog treats and/or dog foods .. along the way .. but in exchange she will realize, there will be no special trips for same, .. let's see how that goes.
If she is willing to UBER or GOGOGRANDPARENT .. to some of her appts .. if she is willing to take on some of the burden and handle things differently .. let's see.
That's the only rational thing that can be done to approach it all.
If anyone thinks that it's somehow rational that she can mett out what her demands/whims/wants are and in that same vain .. demand it be solely on one person to do so .. I would like to ask her, who does she think has the time/energy to do it all, because it certainly isn't me, and I won't be doing it.
Anyway I don't I know how you capture it all but you do, in such detail - I think it is really you and it is really amazing how you describe everything so well. I think you are a writer and you could write a book. Just my thoughts.
I had an inkling that HHC would be nixed after the expense was realized. Today is MIL’s evaluation, IIRC. They are in for a rude awakening. Aides are very costly & MIL doesn’t have the funds, thus SIL & DH (& their spouses) have to pony up the fee. It’ll be quite the burden on your household budget. $20/hr is low ball. Hourly rate will be more like $25-28.
I am afraid that, truthfully, there will be no compromise from MIL’s kids. After almost a year of this thread, what has changed? Nothing. Except everyone is guilting you & shirking their responsibilities because you have an open schedule & did it so well for the past 15 years. I don’t want to be hurtful but DH & SIL are so selfish. They may not even realize how selfish they are because you’ve inadvertently taken the day to day MIL management off their backs for 15 years.
Still, this is no excuse for them not to step up and confront MIL with what needs to be done to assure her safety & well being. I can’t blame it all on MIL - as people get older their worlds get smaller and they tend to focus more on their own needs.
I would have a problem with DH devoting more time to his church and/or hobbies (hunting season over now). I would confront him about this & ask him why he feels that it’s ok to devote weekends to his church vs his family. Taking care of our parents is God’s work.
I have a bigger problem with him not putting his wife’s needs or concerns first, especially as he quickly loses patience & dismisses all you say. He has yet to prove that he understands and empathizes with your decision to step back from day to day care of HIS mother. I don’t want to hurt your feelings Dorker but I would be banging that drum to him daily. If he explodes so be it. You are losing sleep over this.
Even with his sister here he avoids contact like the plaque. He shouldn’t be “allowed” to. He should be working together with his family (you included) to get his mother cared for. Neither of the kids have POA yet, which should’ve been taken care of this extended visit. But for some reason it wasn’t, as well as a plan made going forward. No one communicates in that family.
Now SIL is, by the sounds of her recent text,
going to ditch the HHC “idea” because of the cost. Still, 9 months or so in, all are chasing their tails about transportation for MIL.
This is such a mess.
I have been thinking about suggestions for you to step back in with boundaries but honestly I can’t see a way for you to do it. DH commits to nothing - well, if there’s a calamity he offered to go after work to check on her (I say this with sarcasm). SIL goes home to dog sit. And who’s left? Dorker.
I am not sure I would offer anything. I would throw the ball back in their court and ask them what expectations do they have of you. What chunk of time is good enough? I will bet they will be stumped if you ask them to detail what they want of YOU. Then, when you find (and you will) that you are expected to take care of every need of MIL’s, you can tell them both to go fly a kite.
Start the “meeting” with this - ask them what they expect of you. See if they can even verbalize it. Why? Because they have no plan and are waiting for you to step back in and take care of 99.5% of MIL care. Ask them why they think you stepped back. See if SIL has even given a thought to how much work you’ve put in already. Don’t hold back.
The list of MIL’s needs are astounding. Present this list to SIL and ask her to choose what she perceives as what you should take care of vs DH. What an eye opener this will be.
Start by asking what has been determined so far as a plan to care for MIL since SIL has been here, and where you fit in the plan, and what will your responsibilities be. Watch SIL’s face as she has a “deer in the headlights” moment. She will have no plan.
I would put it all back on SIL & DH. It’s not up to you to make the plan. And when she says there is no plan, decline to get involved at all until there is a plan that is agreeable to you as well.
You will look like who you are, the only adult in the room. You won’t look like the bad guy refusing to do her part because you don’t know what “the part” is.
All the people who have offered to help aren't going to put up with Narcissa's demands during a ride somewhere, are they (the MOW drivers, the neighbors, the church people)? The Uber trips are going to cost a lot more than expected, because of all the TIME Narcissa takes. Notice how long the housecleaner's chauffering lasted.
Dorker, I just don't see how compromising on your part is going to work. Because I fear it will ONLY be on your part. I think something like visiting her one morning a week would be doable, but I just cannot see how mission creep wouldn't happen very quickly. At first you'd be spending all day with her, then another day/week would be added, etc. I'd really like to see what H's idea of what you are supposed to do is. I think he wants things as they were before, which is that you are the stepandfetchit so he didn't have to deal with anything.
And I still don't see how med compliance is going to happen.
That is about to change .. as I have put out there that I want to sit down face to face with SIL. This time .. she has not been able to shirk it and ignore it, and obfuscate and otherwise be occupied. You want to make noise that my absence in it all is palpable and that I was an integral part, . .. and you were hurt .. and angry (and tell others that and not me) . fine .. make some time to talk to me, as I've repeatedly asked ..
That is about to happen. Next week. I will put out there, with my voice .. what boundaries that I intend to keep .. one of those being the dog duty .. take it off my plate .. and will go down the list.
I will ask, as Shane put it, .. "what is it you expect of me?", wait for an answer, .. she will again try to obfuscate and make excuse and so forth. I will dig deeper, til I get her to give me a look .. a real glance .. at what that looks like for her, .. and I will be listing .. all the massive over the top need and ask her, .. who is she planning will meet this need and how.
Let's remember, this isn't my decision that she be left alone in her home to manage. I think it's beyond ridiculous that she can do so .. and have said so. But no one wants to hear my thoughts (til now apparently, and that's been kinda a forced issue on my part).
Doesn't matter, I'm not the offspring .. I don't get to call the shots. I hear ya I got that.
BUT ... here's kinda what it looks like, .. having lived it .. with leaving her to manage on her own .. now how do you propose that get spoken to.
Deer in the headlights I suppose, I don't know.
And the UBER or GOGOGRANDPARENTS thing ............... oh yes .. oh absolutely indeed .... she needs a whole lot more prompting and/or someone keeping her on task to get to the end result .. in anythings she does. In fact, ............. I happen to think there is some loss of Executive Level Function .. and Cognitive impairment ( that no one has cared to look into , even though I, at one time banged that drum loudly). So absolutely that will fail as a means by which she can get to and fro ........
That's not on me. I will be offering up whatever it is I can offer, be that the helping to formulate the grocery list to order online for delivery .. be that visiting one morning a week and being kind enough to pick up incidentals .. as needed to bring on that 1 x a week visit, .. I don't know the rest of it remains kinda open ended as far as my own mind.
But outside of that .. the fact she can't seem to get ready on time, and stay on task . .. and even handle the logistics of phoning them 15 mins ahead of time, and being ready when she makes that phone call, and then the confusion .. of being done at the doc, and now calling them again, to make it clear where she is and where she needs to go (loss of Executive Level Function) .. is not on me, to now jump headlong into and swoop under it, to take that off of everyone in this picture.
And med compliance .. yep . .. that too, needs someone overseeing it, but I'm not stepping into that role, .. "SIL how do you propose that is going to be addressed". Here's what she'll say .. had that conversation before as she's departing the scene here, "Oh she seems to be doing a lot better with that now, she realizes how crucial it is that she comply and do the things she needs to do and stay motivated to take care of herself, she's really .. she's doing it now ... I mean .. I don't have to prompt her anymore .. "
That's what will be said .. it's been said before.
Again .. not mine to own .................. nor will the fallout from same, any longer, be mine to own. Her legs are swelling and possibly inflamed .. and could someone go look at that, "gee SIL . check our notes that we talked about, that's not something I'll be looking after .. not sure who you set up to take care of that, .. I'll be out there next week on so and so morning .. be glad to look at that point .. not gonna make a special trip".
SIL, "well I just feel very worried, ya know I don't want it to go into cellulitis .. like it did before .. she seems worried about it, that it feels inflammed and swollen ... I think somebody should look at it".
Me: "You're probably right .. maybe you need to line up whoever takes her to doc appts and get that on the radar ..
SIL: "Well I don't know that she needs to be seen by a doctor, .. probably ... it'd be better if one of you could look at it first, and you know her, if I tell her she's gotta go to the doctor, she's gonna burst an aorta you know how she is.
Me: "Talk to your brother, remember when I signed back on to be a part of all this, that wasn't something that was under my heading .. I don't have time".
Remember underlying all of this is the fact that she must be presumed to be able to manage .. I'm the one over here, the naysayer . uhhm .. no .. she doesn't .. she doesn't manage. Been saying it.
To two imbeciles that won't listen.
So fine leave her there to manage .. but there will be some dug in the heels on my part, as to my participation going forward .. and then when she begins bugging DH .. if she can even get on his radar ... (that too will have been covered, no .. not in my realm of responsibility to go after DH . . get w/your brother and see if he'll run out there) .... not gonna do that for her. So my participation in it all, .. then DH harping at me, "FOR CHRISSAKES can't you" .. No .. remember I do thus and so, .. not stepping back headlong into all this Dear Hubby .. been there, .. wrote the book on it .. not doing it, wasn't my decision to leave her there to manage ..
Oh absolutely I expect almost anything sets up .. will fail ...
But .. that doesn't make it mine to swoop under it all, as the safety net to resolve.
And I won't.
It's too bad that DH can't be in on that meeting next week with SIL. Because if he's not in on that meeting, SIL can still bug him via text, and then not much has changed. He won't know your part of the plan, and will expect you to do more.
But, really, the fact that no meeting has yet occurred in all this time, means that neither of them really care very much, doesn't it?