I'm so disheartened and angry.

Be interested what the written assessment says, from the HHC.

SIL has put a pin in the balloon of " housebound" with MIL driving.

So sad to see this, Dorker.

Barb, as I've said all along, and took me a long while to get on board with it .. I don't see things that way .. but I was odd man out there.

It will take a calamity to uproot all of this. It's evident that her offspring .. they are on the page that she will, at some point, have a major calamity befall the situation.

Just ask them, "you do realize, she could take such a nasty fall that she is now going to have to undergo some grueling surgery to repair a broken spine or hip or something .. and never recover and live in a nursing bed the rest of her days .. remanded to bed .. and bed sores .. you do realize that's where we're headed, .. if not septic shock from one of the times she lets that leg edema get out of hand .. and what befalls that situation . the failure of major organs .. you do realize that's where this is all headed.

The answer, .. "well she could fall .. even living with me Dorker, I can't follow her around with a net .. and catch her and prevent that .. even a facility isn't going to prevent that .. she could fall anywhere".

Uhm .. okay and the failure to take her meds and the damage that has the potential to create. "Oh she's doing better with that, . she realizes she has to take care of herself and keep herself safe, I'm not even having to remind her anymore, .. she has her pills lined up in her little pocket thing .. and she sets them out in the morning, I don't even have to remind her now".

Only I have been there on site, behind the above dialogue and watched SIL remind her, and MIL with the "I KNOW DAUGHTER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I WILL ..... LEAVE ME ALONE!!!!!', and she doesn't, and more prompt. And I say to SIL, .. "thought she was doing that on her own .. without prompt". SIL .. "She does .. I just .. I guess it's habit". Only for SIL to go away and it all begin to crumble.

I have wrapped my brain around the fact that it's going to take some horrible calmity to uproot all of this. Hard pill to swallow .. but it's not my mom. I wouldn't do things this way.

But I have wrapped my brain around it.

So what remains is who steps up to meet all the need .. and it won't be me.

And yes, .. her having MIL drive, .. very aware that just put a pin prick in it all .. she isn't "homebound" if she is "capable" (I question that) of driving.

Just like, hospitalizations . if no one is going to get in front of the whole thing and get an "inpatient" label put on it (if that's even possible anymore) .. and then get in front of it, .. with staff .. "hey she has no one to care for her at home .. needs to go to a facility for rehab" . if that's never gonna happen .. then her number coming up on any radar as someone who needs to be redirected for more intensive care .. that too will never be seen to. SIL will present, front and center, and tell her mom .. if she isn't here yet . in any hospitalization .. that she is flying in .. and all med staff .. then under the impression she has a daughter looking after her ..and it will never get re-directed appropriately.

So what remains of how to manage all that goes on. There is the crux of it .. and I won't be stepping in to fill in all the holes in the dyke.

Isn't it interesting that BIL was able to manage getting dressed, his diet and his diabetes without SIL for all the time that she's been in FL with MIL before he flew in to join her?

Dear DH and SIL:

I know that both of you are aware and thankful/grateful that I have been such an integral part of the situation that is your parents well being.

In case either of you, far too busy, to recall what that looked like at one time. Oh I would say maybe about 2000 or 2001 .. I was assisting, your dad, at that time, when he'd go to PCP .. with symptoms indicating illness, and there was concern that he maybe didn't articulate clear enough, I'd go and act in that capacity and ask the appropriate questions, take the appropriate direction on his behalf. Also to cardio appointments .. as we'd discuss fluid build up and/or any other symptoms that might be ongoing and take direction and act on his behalf .. as advocate. I even helped when he went to buy the auto that MIL now drives, to this day . in 2002 .. the thinking that maybe he doesn't .. or can be more easily shammed .. and MIL maybe not up for such minutia to accompany him.

Was glad to do it. These are people I love and care deeply for. They have been good to me and good to our kids .. the absolute best.

What that looked like in my world, at that time. Father in law would be given appropriate instruction and/or rx's and or procedure/tests upcoming, etc. There would be follow through, consistent follow through. Sometimes me along for said procedure/test, etc.

Of course, in 2003 your dad passed. In 2004 .. MIL had her stroke .. I remember it well. She and I walking around an art festival and her noticing, as well as myself, that she seemed to amble to the side, as we'd walk, almost is if a drunk person .. and she lamenting that she doesn't know what's wrong. I, urging .. surely you aren't having a stroke .. something must be wrong .. let's go to the ER .. oh no .. no no no .. I'm not doing that.

Eventually culminating in the problem persisting (precious time lost) .. and investigation to commence as to what this problem is that is causing her to veer to the side as she walks. Of course, a visit to the PCP .. and from there referral to Nuero doc and tests and so forth, nerve conductive studies .. MRI's .. so forth.

In the b'ground of all this, of course, I'd been happy to be a part of the scene as she weathered a breast biopsy for a suspicious mass, prior to the above, and of course, .. visits to the eye doc when her eyes would need to be dialated .. even an endoscopy as we worked to investigate what's wrong with her gutt that she seems more prone than is normal .. for stomach upset.

Of course, now the front was the scene with the inability to walk straight. And all that entailed. Zeroing in on .. the fact there'd been a stroke. And so of course, some PT in order and let's not forget the investigation as to why, .. she's never had high BP .. why did she have a stroke, and the tests and so forth at the cardio doc where determination that she has a hole in her heart that should've closed in infancy, never did. Ahh . the hole in the heart, ... so a procedure on tap at that point, to insert a mesh apparatus on that hole, to hopefully prevent further clots traveling thru that area. But the tests/procedures to arrive at that conclusion.

On the scene for all of it, glad to do it. This is a person I care deeply for and was as concerned as the rest of you.

Along the way in it all, of course, Diverticulitis was the determination for the too frequent stomach upset and of course, instruction provided as to dietary restriction that should be followed.

So through the years ... there have been the maladies that will occur and I have been there on the front .. assisting where I can as you both are aware . The investigation as to whether she was having a heart attack when she'd get these accute episodes that felt as though they were heart attacks, only to determine it as GERD .. and instructions thereof. The episodes where she would feel as though she was fading away .. and would describe it that she feels as though if she doesn't cough or clear her throat or some manner of bringing herself back among the living .. she would just fade away and be gone. And of course, investigation as to what aspect. Determination she has A-Fib and meds rx'd.

All along the way, various other ailments to be seen to, .. dental issues, foot issues, her Sojourns dx.

All along in it .. there was compliance, the ability to do so. For the most part. MIL, in those days was able to go and secure her own groceries, cook her own meals .. she could even get out in her yard and plant and weed her flower beds. She was exhibiting, in those days, the ability to follow through on instruction and meds and appointments for further testing/procedures, etc.

Somewhere along the way .. the lights have gone out on the above for the most part.

Her walking issues escalated to not just veering off to the side, but more of a balance issue .. and that investigation ensuing and further PT ordered, etc. She became unable to adequately see about her nutrition intake and MOW was summoned into the scene. She was unable to adequately hydrate when she would be besieged with a bout of her stomach upset she is prone for. Maybe more importantly, her medications .. she would play with and/or refuse to take .. and the fallout from said decision .. not anything she was able to adequately address on her own. Edema resulting in cellulitis .. falls .. from dehydration and weakness .. fading away again .. as she'd stopped taking her meds for A-Fib. Securing a heart monitor and helping to administer that .. as it was too cumbersome for her to manage all to determine that A-fib was at work again, finding MIL had stopped taking that med.

Accompanying her for the miracle procedure that would straighten her arthritic fingers .. surgical procedure .. which of course, didn't work.

In the end, .. we've arrived at a situation where MIL's needs are greater than she, herself, can meet. Why she doesn't see that, is anyone's guess. But she does not. Thinks she is fine to manage on her own. She doesn't.

In the b'ground there is her precious life's blood of her dog, means more to her than the air she breathes. And that dog's needs also escalating as he ages .. and her unable to manage that.

Her dog needs routine grooming
her dog needs routine washing
Her dog gets sick more frequently
Her dog has specialized food needs
Her dog has specialized treat needs
Her dog needs routine bi-annual check ups

Of course, the approach to the above .. hertofore .. has been that we will leave it to her to manage. And .. yes .. sometimes she does .. maybe she's having a good week, and she can indeed get out and while out, pick up specialty treats .. or .. maybe the dog is due his check up and it happens to be at a time that she is doing well, and can see to it.

However, more often than not, it's left open-ended .. "we'll just do the best we can", .. "I know, she's so stubborn" and the above need has no one to speak to it. The need crops up .. no one assigned to address it, left open ended .. it becomes a toss in the wind and/or far too often for my liking .. mine, by default to address and/or find assignment for said duty.

This is something I will need both of you, in your decision to leave your mother in her home, per her wishes . to address more adequately as I will be stepping out of that realm in it's entirety. If you'd like me to elaborate further and as to the reasons why, I'll be glad to explain the basis for that decision.

Still remaining, however, is the massive support needed that your mom remain in her home.

Of course, there is housework - that is seen to by a bi-weekly housekeeper
Nutrition - that is seen to by MOW (though she doesn’t always partake of said nutrition)
Household maintenance-seen to by DH
Medication management - has not been spoken to as to any plan
Support for times of illness/injury - has not been spoken to
Transport for appointments, illness/injury or routine appts - hasn't been addressed
Groceries - securing same when she is prone to be unable to do so/hasn't been seen to
Supplies at times of sickness/injury-rx's and so forth - hasn't been spoken to

We’ve seen, countless times .. when injured and/or ill . she needs support in that someone be available on site to prompt as to hydration/nutrition, otherwise it simply doesn’t occur. Situation worsens.
We’ve seen countless times as she fails at follow through as to PT/meds and home health nursing and dismisses said services stating they are a dog and pony show and she isn’t up to it.
Some of the above wanton willfulness to refuse said follow through (meds) and the fallout that ensues behind it.

There hasn’t been any real plan to address any of the above.
For it to be left open ended with a “well she’s just so stubborn”, or a “we’ll just have to do the best we can”, or a “Now I know what I must do and I will do it, I will manage”.
No longer suffices, not as to my participation.
What was occurring, far too often, the default resource to speak to the above need and more, . myself.

I am no longer willing/able to be said default resource for need that I have spoken up countless times has become more than I am willing/able to manage.
What remains .. is this. What is the plan as to the need listed above..how is that going to be addressed going forward.

I am more than happy to be a small part of helping someone that I care about, with parameters, if so desired. But do understand .. I am defining some clearer boundaries going forward as to what I am able to be a part of.
I will set aside, one morning each week. In that time frame, if there is a doctor appointment that .. let’s say maybe MIL rendered unable to drive .. and needs assistance .. I can be a part of that. If there are needs on another of those set aside, one day a week that I will visit, .. as to picking up of some items from pharmacy, from big box yard and garden store, .. from grocery .. I will be happy to oblige.
In exchange for my participation as stated, I would like you both to realize I don’t intend to be dropping to run to address the additional need. Should some issue arise as to other items needing pick up, it can be addressed by me, when I return and/or some other means.
Further, it’s my assumption that MIL is completely capable of managing, since that is the approach being taken. In that assumption, I will rely on her to impart to me how I can be of service to her that one morning per week. If she needs meds picked up, she can let me know. If she needs a few extra incidentals from the grocery .. I will pick them up, from big box yard and garden store, .. from pet store .. etc.
But I am no longer willing to take direction from you sister as to said need. Mother in law is assumed to be of sound mind and as such should be able to articulate her needs and plan accordingly.
Along that same line of thought . there had been far too frequent of requests coming from the geography of IL .. as to need on the front here .. and I had been with MIL the prior two days to nurse her along and/or take her hither and yon .. and now there was expectation that I would again, adjust my world .. to accommodate said need.
No longer willing to do so. I will, however, .. if planned out, accommodate where possible, pick up as stated above, as requested by MIL.
Further, .. household maintenance items, I will remove myself form that forum. Any item needing attention in the realm of household repairs .. you will need to communicate between you two as to how best to meet that need and when/where. I don’t need to be in that loop .. I can’t fix leaky faucets .. nor can I repair sprinkler heads that have malfunctioned and/or unclog a toilet or chop up fallen tree limbs that are unsightly. There’s no need for me to be looped into that equation. Sister if you are having trouble reaching out to your brother and not receiving timely response, you will need to address that with him as to how best to get you both on that page of more prompt communication. Please note that I will from here forward, .. defer all such texts and requests with a response of, ignoring and/or “don’t know, talk to your brother”, and please know that I will no longer take the torch on that front, to carry in message to him.
Hopefully from here .. some clearer direction can be achieved going forward and I wish you both the best of luck with answering to other need I haven’t spoken to.

Calm and reason with options not completely caved. Good for you. I hope it calms you.

Dorker; your description of her stroke and her subsequent decline is textbook Vascular Dementia, in my humble and nonmedical opinion. Has the neurologist ever talked about that?

Otherwise, really great missive. Good luck. b

Hi Dorker: Upthread, someone posted a list of mantras. One was something to the effect of “It’s not my job to make someone else’s bad idea work for them.” BINGO.

In some families, that demand/paradox is their only currency. And when everyone is younger and generations are co-mingled, that subtext gets lost in the noise of having young children around.

And more easily tolerated when the Sandwich Generation (us) is in their peak-energy years.

After full “adulting” takes place and nests are emptied, the distractions fall away. Years of “oh, that’s just how they are” snaps into focus. It becomes crystal clear that sucking the life out of us “is just how they are.”

And we cringe every time the phone rings.

Like you, Dorker, for years I was the one who rallied the troops. And “made nice” at every occasion. And could let (most of) the nonsense roll off my back.

In short, I played a huge role in helping someone else’s family pretend they were more functional than they were.

I was also sensitive to the thorny issue of MILs/SILs other sons - Along With Their Wives - delivering the “bare minimum” treatment to MIL/FIL. Compound that with my natural “fixer” tendencies, and sig-other & I kept the clown car known as HIS FAMILY on life support (figuratively) for years.

MIL/FIL primarily “connected” with family by asking favors. Can XXXX take a look at the dishwasher? Oh, and the hall light switch is on the fritz. Dad bought a new screen door; can you install it? Dad got it super-cheap because the handle is missing. On and on.

Never “wanna see a movie/go to the museum/catch a ball game?” Never.

As MIL/FIL lost their distractions (via the final grow-ups/move-outs —and also some deaths), their pathologies were pretty much all they brought to the table.

A late-in-life attempt at being landlords was an unmitigated disaster. Over the years, the old neighborhood became a slum and the old family house became an albatross. MIL/FIL downsized to a quieter neighborhood and decided to rent the family home.

Not sell. Not comply with Section 8 in exchange for guaranteed rent receipt. Just straight-up Craigslist renting.

And in lieu of running background checks and credit reports, MIL/FIL accepted tenants at whim.

One fiasco after another. Some of which made the 5:00 news and the local newspaper.

Cut to: Sig-other and I weren’t getting any younger, either. Same goes for my family of origin.

Sig-other and I got an undeniable lesson in what his family is good for (more specifically, not good for) when s.o. had a two different health setbacks — both of which impeded his ability to walk/drive/work for a significant period of time. **crickets.** His retired, able-bodied (at the time) parents and his adult sibs acted like he didn’t exist.

It is worth noting that they all live within 1 to 10 miles of us. It is also worth nothing that after both episodes, once sig-other was again able to climb a ladder, turn a wrench, etc, the clan miraculously remembered our phone number.

And surprise surprise, I did not hatch from a pod. When MIL/FIL were no longer in the prime of their lives, neither were my parents. (Duh, right??) But when my parents were ailing, the in-laws acted like it wasn’t happening. Because it wasn’t happening to them. Their responses to deaths in my family were equally lame.

Dorker, if I hadn’t had these watershed in-law moments prior to MIL becoming widowed and needier — and hadn’t been to h*ll and back with my own stubborn mother first — I probably would have fallen into your trap.

When you tell your tales, it’s like a dispatch from my parallel universe. Hearing how my life would have turned out if I chose the other fork in the road.

Dorker, you will not be the lightning rod forever. It just feels that way right now. There’s been fantastic advice on this thread RE talking points and boundaries. Practice out loud when you’re alone — or in the car.

April 4th will be here before you know it. And if your crew is operating true to form, you’ll get to say your piece at the passenger drop-off curb at the airport. For a whole 30 seconds!

Be good to yourself, Dorker. Change is stressful. Try not to ruminate too much. ((((big hugs))))

Oops. “I AM NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR MAKING OTHER PEOPLE'S BAD DECISIONS WORK.” was posted in the Dysfunctional Families thread. 🤪

Early signs of vascular dementia can include mild:
slowness of thought.
difficulty with planning.
trouble with understanding.
problems with concentration.
mood or behavioural changes.
problems with memory and language (but these aren't as common as they are in people with Alzheimer's disease)

Dear Dorker,
Absolutely beautifully, honestly, perfectly said.

I removed myself from checking on this thread for a couple of days. The hope was to de-escalate my, too emotionally charged, emotions. I don't think it has helped unfortunately.

I am to meet with SIL tomorrow, and I guess I am kind of even dreading it, only from the respect.

She will sing her same song and dance her same jig .. "oh she's doing so well now .. ya know, she's such a fighter, .. I was astounded how hard she fought to come back from that injury".

That kinda thing.

And I will want to jump up and choke SIL.

First off, what she was before, .. to fight to return to that level of function, was pretty compromised and shouldn't of, even then, been living *independently*.   

But more importantly .. I have heard that same song and dance, and seen that same jig more times than I can count, as I express how she is not managing ..

It will be maybe a week or two and it will all begin to unravel again, as it always does .. and this then wrecks my world, in the sense that I will be in the "oh for CHRISSAKES can't you" box, to whatever the issue dujour is.

Yes working hard at the realization .. there's nothing I can say that will right the course of what the agenda entails going forward. Not a damn thing I can say.

THE ONLY THING I can control, is me .. and my participation in whatever occurs going forward and that I have in down pat. I don't intend to step into it any way/shape/form that looks like a stopgap as to keeping status quo.

SIL will be told, as will DH ...... "if you guys want, I'm happy to devote one morning a week to this endeavor, and here's what that will look like *x, y and z* on those mornings". Outside of that, figure it out, and don't be asking me, because the answer will be no.

I've got all that, and I plan to live it/breathe it/sleep it/eat it/be it.

But that won't stop my world from turning upside down .. as the "OH FOR CHRISSAKES", comes flying at me .. repeatedly.

Yes, I will repeat the mantra cited here, "It's not my job to support your bad decisions".

Will tattoo it on my forehead.

But the meeting, the sit down with SIL tomorrow .. I think I just might throw up if she starts with that same song and dance, about how "well" her mom is doing .. (all to justify her departure, again sans her mom's welfare any concern of her's or her brother's).

Dorker, think Dragnet "just the facts, m'am". Take the list you made of all of her appointments etc. Take the list of all the things she needs to have done, including pet related items. Calmly present SIL with the two lists - she needs to see in black and white all that needs to be happening, and just how much assistance her mother really needs.

Dorker--
My heart will be with you tomorrow. IF you can keep it sweet and simple--sticking only to the FACTS that are irrefutable--and don't let SIL wander all over with her "look how well mother is doing NOW" comments (and you know they're coming, be prepared!)..stating only what is absolutely obvious--maybe she'll listen. I doubt it. I think she is going to come out, guns blazing about the "new agenda" and how you better get on board with it. You're beyond amazing to even be putting yourself in the picture one morning a week. I never have that ability with my mother--if I do one thing, it escalates to 10. And I simply...cannot.

As far as the comments DH makes---personally, for a man of faith to be using the Lord's name in such a way--kinda disrespectful--but that's not here nor there. He says is b/c he WON'T step up and it shuts you down. Quite effectively, too.

You're going to battle armed only with a list and the last 15 years of service tucked under your belt. And as probably being the ONLY person who really sees the big picture.

Take LOTS of notes. Don't waver. Know there's about 50 of us out here in cyberspace cheering you on.

In the end, though, you're right. No matter how much planning goes into this, MIL is going to have some kind of crisis soon. As soon as SIL leaves, I would daresay.

Just hang in there--this is a problem that will sadly and likely be self-fixing.

Hugs to you and good luck.

Dorker you are a good and kind person. We will all be with you tomorrow. “I can’t possibly do that”. “I can do that Tuesday morning if it fits in the 4 hour window, I’ve got plans I can’t change in the afternoon.” “All texts go through DH. If MIL needs something this week, she can call. I’ll see her Tuesday after you leave.” Then all you can do is take every possible shift at part time that you can.

Hmm. Well at least there's a small (very small) chuckle in the following:

The other day ... this whole topic was being bandied about in discussion momentarily. Present were DH, DD and her husband and myself.

Something was said to the tune of maybe some forward progress can be made.

I then interjected: "We'd of had forward progress, .. I've asked repeatedly to have some face-time with SIL on all this.

Without missing a beat, DH interjected: I think she's scared of you.

To which DD then said: "I do too, you can be scarey!

DD's husband, knods his head in acknowledgement of that statement, but doesn't utter a word.

Me, Shocked, responding: ME?!?!?!? How am I scarey .. I have never one single time raised my voice, hit anyone .. threatened to hit anyone, cursed anyone .. never .. how can that be scarey?"

DD: You don't have to be violent to be scary mom! It's just .. you're hard to argue with .. your brain like a steel trap .. you can pull up chit that happened in 1994 and tell me what I said and why, and the time of day I said it, .. and then .. I have no stance to argue any further, .. you're hard to argue with.

DH: "Yep, mind like a steel trap .. don't try her, .. she will throw something at ya that you said 20 years ago .. and you stand there, .. uhm.. duh .. yea I did say that didn't I.

I just had to laugh. All very true .. it's not that precise, the ole gray matter .. but I do have a keen ability to recollect things .. maybe too good of ability for MY OWN GOOD.

Who knows, .. maybe they're right .. maybe that's why my repeated requests .. at this point, when questioned as to why they haven't been acknowledged and acted on .. it's said .. "I don't recall her asking" (of me having done so).

Yea right!

Dorker,

Do you even remember what clothing you and the other party were wearing during these 20 yr old conversations?

Don’t ask me why I ask...

Sometimes and jewelry too dependent upon who the interaction was with.

Omg. I am laughing here. I am guilty also. Freaks my family out.

That kind of memory is not such a blessing, it does scare people that are trying to do underhanded things. My husband will not argue with me because as he puts It "No one can think as fast or remember as much, unfair advantage." Most days when things are pretty tough I wish I too could be oblivious of the history and the why of things.

May God grant you strength for your meeting with "rabbit hole creator of the chaos!" That's her superpower, what's yours?

Lol, Dorker and Lizzy!

I was getting ready to ask the “do you remember what they were wearing” question- then saw Lizzy s post.


For a short time while I was in college I participated in a study on people with unusual memory. I was identified as having part photographic memory and part phonographic memory- although the phonographic part did not fit the traditional definition as such - which became a point of much exploration by the Psych Department people who were running the study. After a while I began to feel like a freak and a bug under a microscope and left the study. Memory such as ours can be both
a blessing and a curse, don’t you think?

Anyhoo - best of luck tomorrow, dear Dorker! Stay calm and collected and if things do start to get emotional or ramped up - don’t hesitate to say a five minute recess is needed. I like to use paraphrasing in situations like yours tomorrow - to both check my understanding of what’s being said but also as a way to defuse by slowing things down a bit.

Youll do great. After all , your coming at this from a place of love.

Yes, a blessing and a curse, this memory thing.

It really doesn’t help when arguing a point that I remember every tiny detail. If the other party remembers nothing, of course I am making it up.

Are we the ones that like to “Beat the Dead Horse”?

Dorker, hope the meeting with SIL goes well.

Good luck today, Dorker!
We’re rooting for you!

Dorker; Thinking of you today!

It occurred to me that perhaps the "practising driving" is in response to a written request from Florida DMV that MIL come in for a test of her driving skills. This is something that could be the result of your anonymous report to DMV.

SIL will doubtless ask you to take MIL to that event!

That is definitely a task I would ask DH to perform, as he feels so strongly that she shouldn't be driving.

Something else I wanted to mention. My mom went back to college at the age of 62. She said it kept her sane while my dad was dying of leukemia, gave her a reason to be out of the house and a way to say "no" to the constant suck on her attention.  She graduated with a BS at the age of 82.  Summa cum laude.

Something to think about, if you're not terribly interested in going to work on a more full time basis.

Yes, good luck today! I've been thinking about this, and I really like your list of all the tasks MIL needs help doing (including of course SIL's demands from afar). I think giving a spreadsheet to SIL would be very effective!

*IF* you tell SIL that you will help out one morning a week, may I suggest that you be very specific about just what you will do for MIL? MIL has needs and (many) wants. Perhaps only do something for MIL's NEEDS. I would classify a lot of trips for Precious Pooch as WANTS. And I'm really wary of mission creep with that one morning/week commitment. I'm also wary of saying that MIL can call on you at other times if she needs something. Or are you so sure that she won't do that, because in the past it's been SIL that has given you your assignments? If MIL calls you to have you run here and there for Precious Pooch's special treats and dog food, will you?

"I'll put on DH's to-do list, MIL"

I'm not putting anything on DH's "to do" list, that's between she and he. If she wants it on his "to do" list and he is agreeable to same, then there .. they've got it worked out.

If DH then wants to come to me, with the whole "FOR CHRISSAKES DORKER" .. and I can easily tell him, "Not my job to support your bad decisions". Back in his plate to figure out how to best deal with it. Whatever "it" is.

I was thinking this morning ......

An interesting little conversation had with DD. Back when she was admonishing me for not, at least, at the very least, .. you don't even call her anymore, .. that's wrong mom.

That conversation.

She and I talking (now mind you she agrees that MIL needs more supervised care, be that via SIL in her home, or AL or whatever that looks like, she's on that page, sees it).

I'm also very mindful that it's easy, far too easy, to sit back and armchair quarterback as to what others do, their approach to varying scenarios .. particularly when you aren't the one living it, and that would be very true of DD. She has her own fish to fry .. in her children and the responsibility there, and her household and husband and so forth. She has not walked in these shoes, nor has she been really vested in what it all looks like, walking that walk.

So she then says this, as we discuss how it's wholly unmanageable and that I've tried to get her offspring to sit up and take notice to that fact, . and falls on deaf ears, repeatedly.

We were on the topic of how that looks, in real time, boots on the ground here, .......

Me: DD, she gets sick or injured and there's no one present to man that .. that hasn't' been addressed at all. She can't adequately manage her dog's care and that falls to someone to handle, almost always me .. by default, absent any *plan* ...... she can't even successfully manage her weekly grocery shopping, that too, .. has been suggested that there are services for delivery of same, and she flat out refuses .. another "need" left hanging .. unanswered to, no plan .. her meds .. she doesn't manage here meds .. then she ends up with worsening edema .. and the cellulitis and a visit to the doc .. usually facilitated by me .. and there they caution again and again, same lecture, different day .. if you aren't going to take the med, then let's try compression hose, she refuses compression hose, rinse/lather/repeat".

I was saying the above to DD. Her response.

DD: "Well mom what would you have me do if it was you, .. if you're old .. and frail and you don't comply with meds .. what would you have me do".

Now mind you, .. this .. because she really hasn't been all that vested in all this, to walk this walk .. she doesn't know the inner workings real well, she just knows she's been around it all enough .. in my presence, my phone pinging repeatedly with incessant need, that much she has seen .. and she's seen my frustration level in it all .. she has been present for that much .. a lot. So, .. that question .. I'm sure .. because she is in touch with the crew out there, her g'ma and her aunt (SIL), ............ I'm sure that question was something planted by them, .. "well what would she do, what would you have us do DD ...... if it were your mom, .. what would you do, ...???...".

She wouldn't come up with that insightful a question, she just isn't that vested in it all (understandably so).

My answer: DD, if you remember... I have approached them countless times that this is all not manageable, by me solely .. I've said it and said it and said it, til I could puke .. that's part of it .. so if it were me, and I was refusing meds and/or the alternative presented by the docs .. I would expect that you would put in place, more supervised care .. even if that saddens me and makes me cry .. as I suspect is their hesitance to do so with MIL. I would expect that you would get with your siblings and presented a united front to me, that this isn't workable for you guys .. and that the fallout from the above scenario ...... makes your lives more complicated than is necessary and that you're going to insist at this point, that she go to a more supervised level of care, period .. period ......... end of topic ... insist on it .......... that means I have to come live with one of you, go to an AL .. I don't know .. but leaving things hanging with the whole "well she's so damn stubborn" .. that doesn't work, not when it defaults to me continuously.

DD: "And what if you are absolutely refusing, as g'ma does, . and no .. I will manage her, now I will manage .. I'm not doing that, I don't want to go live with anybody or go to an AL ...... I will manage".

Me: "It's no longer an option, as far as I'm concerned, lack of any "plan" in place to address it all, necessitates that there have to be changes, period! If it were me, and it were my mom, that would be the approach, yes tears/sadness in her waning years that she has to uproot and doesn't want to. ......... but so be it .......... if it were my mom and this were the scenario .. my mom would be made to understand that implicit in her insistence that she can manage and refuses to make any changes .. then she would be left to do so.......... I wouldn't be running to the rescue to go to the doc repeatedly for the same thing over and over and over, and same instructions over and over and over .. I wouldn't do it".

DD: "So what?, you'd just leave your mom there to have her leg rot off .. you wouldn't do that .. you wouldn't do that if it were me .. you'd be coming to rescue me from it .. you would, I know you .. if it were me, and I was being that way .. you'd fuss at me, you'd get mad .. but you'd see to it .. ".

Me: "If you remember DD ............. your older sister refused all meds and therapy as to her mental health issues .. and once she was a legal adult land continued in that vain .. I turned and walked away from it all, and cut off contact with her ..... I'm not suggesting that should be the route taken, but let's remember, this is not my mother .. yes she has been good to me, .. and a kind and wonderful mother in law thru the years .. but in the end, she is not my mother and I have no voice in any of this, .. but I also don't have to continue picking up the pieces of what her offspring refuse to address adequately".

DD: "you and SIL need to talk, you need to say some of this to her .. ".

Me: "I've tried valiantly to get her on the page to where I am with it all, to no avail".

DD: "Well try again .. and I will too, I will let her know that she needs to reach out to you, in fact, I'm kinda pizzed .. I've been after her, that she needs to do so and .. every time I ask you, you haven't heard from her, but I'm not letting up, .. she's hearing from me, that she needs to sit down and talk to you ... ".

And there ya have it. SIL never did reach out to me, I reached out to her, .. again ..... and so we are set .. to sit down later this morning.

I only impart this dialogue between DD and myself on the topic, because .. I suspect that might be also a piece of what is said by SIL as we sit down to talk.

My response to her is gonna be along the lines of: "Look I get it, that I don't have a say so in all this, . you are her daughter .. and you have to call the shots as you see fit. BUT .. let's remember, I DO HAVE A SAY in my participation in what I call a charade of independent living. Having walked this walk, for a very long time, you aren't talking to someone here that has always shunned it as someone else's to deal with, quite the contrary .. I can tell you, I can name for you .. the specificities of what that lack of managing on her own looks like here, in real time .. on the ground here .. And let me tell you an aspect that you maybe aren't even considering in it all. First off, I"m aware you come here, and you walk on water when you get here, managing it all, .. like none other. But ........... you generally have your husband with you, .. he an go get groceries, .. he can take out the garbage .. he can run small errands .. and in some cases .. depending on the complexity of it all, he can field some phone calls, he can deal with the dog .. he is a help to you. AND .............if he isn't here, then he's at your home, managing that front .. and yes, it's then all on you here . but at least the home front is being managed .. I have none of that. You are throwing a person in all this, on the front lines of it all, in refusing to make any plan .. a person that ..........A) has no voice in it all, . that's been made apparent, but also ........B) doesn't have the luxury of a retired husband to manage the home front while I manage his mom's well being .. and/or step up and do the things that your husband is on site to handle . to assist you. It's too much .. and I've said that more times than I can count, and your answers ranging from .. "We'll just do the best we can", .........OR .........."She's just so stubborn, I don't know what we'll do with her", ........OR ............."Now I will manage her, I know what I must do and I will do it" ............what that looks like, in real time, boots on the ground, that looks like this, absent any plan, the dial points to Dorker .. each and every time . the very person who has no voice in it all.......... so .......... gotcha ....... I don't get a voice in it. ....... clear as a bell ............. but ............ what I do have is a voice in how much I participate in the unrelenting need. So there ya have it, SIL ........... that's why we are where we are ..... and so ........ what would I have you do, to address that she won't take her meds and the fallout from that issue .......... I'd make sure she has more supervised care, .. as I've said to you guys, she doesn't need to be living alone anymore .. but you guys don't wanna pull that trigger and sadden her ............ not something I agree with, but okay .. not my call to make. She wants to insist she knows what to do and she will manage, then let her ............. let her get herself to the doctor then ... if she's able to manage . that's part of it .. let her take the initiative to get herself there .. and get the same instruction over and over and over ........ and don't run it up my flagpole time and time again .. that's what I'd have you do .......

Dorker - good luck today - and have courage and kindness. Remember the great advice - 1) this is too much for one person to continue to shoulder (you when SIL leaves again) 2) it isn't working (MIL all last year after SIL left - hospital, fall, etc)

You have 15 years behind you - that is proof that you love this family and your MIL. You will continue to help her - one morning a week.

You will not be in the middle of DH and SIL texts.

You will not be the default when this house of cards breaks down. No "for chrissakes - can't you just....." It is not your role to prop up MIL bad decisions and your SIL/DH lack of reality.

Stay calm, stay focused. If SIL does not have solutions - remember not your issue to resolve.

Thinking of you this morning

Is anyone else on pins and needles wondering about the outcome of the meeting?

Should we place bets?

SIL will have a million reasons why MIL can't move to IL and she'll ask Dorker if she can just help in extreme emergencies, which means, "Why can't you give up your life to cater to MIL?" Then Dorker will be selfish for not catering to a selfish woman.