I've posted before about in-law care-giving. Aged mother in law, lives in same town.
We are at the tail end of a visit from sister in law from several states away. Sister in law has been here for 3 weeks caring for her mother. A much welcome respite.
It had been discussed, prior to her arrival here on the scene, she would be talking it over with her mother, to try and get her mom to come up to her home, for a stay of maybe a few months.
This, in my opinion, is absolutely essential, as I am expecting twin grand-children, due in about 1 month (if they don't come sooner, as is the case a lot of times with multiples pregnancies). The expectant mother also lives locally here, and has a 4 year old daughter. I will be on that front, helping .. as much as is needed. And not on the front with mother in law and care-giving, and have made that as obvious and apparent as I know how to make it. It would be great if mother in law would agree to go to her daughter's home (several states away) for a period of a few months .. and allow me the latitude to put my energies where I want them to be, on my daughter who will have had a c-section .. and my grand-daughter (4 years old) and new twin babies.
Nothing doing. Mother in law has dug in her heels, and will not hear of it, going to stay with her daughter for any period of time.
What are her reasons?
In mother in law's defense ... her daughter ... I don't even know how to describe it. I will say that when her daughter comes here to visit, she all but breathes for her mother and if she could find a way to do that, she'd do that too. She is the most nervous nelly, never sit down - ever ... worry wart, do everything, all the time .. person that I've ever encountered.
A great example, as I was taking her to the airport yesterday for her departure, . I reached into the fridge to grab myself a bottled water and shut the fridge and turned to walk away, as I've done for all of my 50 plus years living on this earth .. and she said to me, "Oh make sure that fridge shut". WTH???? Like I don't know how to shut a fridge? That's just a small, very small slice of what she is ... how she is.
She is so very hyper-vigilant, seeing to every minute details down to it's finest most minuscule point, fine tooth comb, questioning every point along the way, "should we do thus and so, but maybe if we do thus and so, then such and such will happen, maybe we should do it thus and so .. but then so and so might happen, maybe we shouldn't do thus and so, but do "x" "y" and "z" instead, but if we don't do it that way then ..........", on and on and on and on it goes. And usually in hyper warp speed, as to every single friggin thing.
If her mother moans .. "what's wrong mother?, why did you moan, are you alright?".
Mother: "Yes, I'm fine, I was just sighing out loud".
Sister: "Why did you sigh? Are you hurting, are you sure you're alright, why are you sighing what's the matter?"
Mother: "For God's sake __________________, I was just sighing, .. calm down, I'm fine".
Sister: "Are you sure, .. because if something is wrong you need to tell me".
Mother: "Everything is fine, I'm fine".
Sister: "Are you sure, we did a lot yesterday, did we do too much, maybe we shouldn't of gone to two doctors in one day .. was that too much for you, are you too tired now, maybe we need to move those other doctor appointments so we won't have two in one day, is that too much for you, for one day .. is that why you were sighing .. what's wrong, are you sure you're alright".
Hopefully that kinda gives a little bit of a snapshot of what goes on when sister is in the ring directing things.
So in mother in law's defense.. I do get it, why she wouldn't be chomping at the bit to go to her daughter's home.
BUT ....
The only experience she has with her daughter, in the last years as mother in law has aged and been unable to go anywhere much, has been the daughter coming here, periodically, for periods of about 3 weeks at a stretch. When her daughter comes here, she moves heaven and earth for her mother and then some, and doesn't sit down, doesn't stop .. the WHOLE ENTIRE TIME.
Is there a possibility maybe (as I said to mother in law, when she expressed that isn't happening - talking to me - her going to her daughters .. ever) .. could it be possible that maybe if you would go to where she lives .. she'd be more busy managing her own life in that setting than your's and she would get out of your backside .. and not be as hyper-drive-vigilant as you experience in her, when she's here, could that be possible.
The daughter is retired, lives several states away. Does come here, generally, every few months .. and stays for a period of about 3 weeks at a stretch. I wish I could make a list of everything the daughter did when here this last time, but it would take up the whole character allotment:
To keep Dorker out of the loop and not assigning her the role of cruise director, the church ladies should have DH's number and MIL's. They will very quickly figure her out...so I wouldn't worry too much about giving them all but the slightest bit if "pre-info". Likely these sweet women will let MIL know they are volunteering and helping her, with the hope of brightening her life and aiding with compassionate service.
I'm not spring chicken myself, and I do a lot of "compassionate service". I walk a fine line between doing the right amount and not getting pulled into family issues. These ladies "could" be a real blessing. I certainly hope so.
You're a champ for still taking SIL's texts, but remember, if she starts blowing up your phone all day long with directives, block her number. Let DH do what DH has to learn to do.
One of the ladies I spoke with ran this ministry at another, larger church, before coming to ours. She told of a story of some 90 year old that she was ministering to. Nothing really terminal with the 90 something yo .. but a lot of chronic health issues and that the family always insistent, one more test, one more procedure, one more doctor, one more of this or that.
Said she worked with and built a confidence in this elderly lady. The elderly lady ended up imparting to her .. that she is just tired, doesn't want to do all this .. prcocedures, tests, etc .. but the family was always insistent "Oh c'mon now mom, we need you here, .. you need to do this, we can get you better", reporting that she was just tired, and ready to go. That she was able to work with the family to help them to understand that they have to find a different path, more suitable to the elderly woman.
Sounded somewhat similar. As I told this lady that I met with, I think you'll find some similarity here with MIL and the dynamics at play with her daughter. Her son (they know her son very well, her son is their Sunday School teacher) . her son .. not as engaged to have much of an opinion either way on the above .. but the daughter, very much so that is the case. And, that I've heard MIL impart that same kind of sentiment.
From what I could tell talking with them, it's about building up a companionship level of connection .. and from there, .. they will also do small errands, a doc visit, etc ..
As I described to them, her needs, many many needs (and some of them wants) .. they seem to have a keen comprehension of it all. And forthright, they won't be able to meet "all" the need. I'm aware of that, boy am I aware of that.
They also seem to have a keen observation that family gets burned out and could clearly see that is the case with me, and so they want to help. They know that DH can't do all that I did .. work/church conflicts, hunting, etc. They know that I did, for a long long time . and am burned out. They want to help "us" to help her. That's their goal.
They didn't ask for my phone #, though it's easily obtained if they want it. But .. I don't get the sense that's what they would be about. Trying to get me to the forefront to coordinate any of what they do. Sounds like they might try to call her, .. and go visit .. maybe once a week, a short visit .. and then from there build a freindship of sorts .. and be available, should the need arise, for per se .. a doc visit transport.
"A doc visit". Not NUMEROUS doc visits.
As I told them, a concern of mine is that they will find in MIL .. she thinks she has to be "on" .. as in a court jester .. that she has this sense that she feels she has to be "on" and turn on the switch to "entertain" them .. and as a result they will find that she will push them away .. and with the statement "It's just not a good time", when .. what underlies that is, she just doesn't possess the capability anymore to be "on" and "entertain", and making her understand this isnt' about "entertaining" us, .. not as easy as one might think ... they will find she will maybe try to push them away.
The one lady that has done this ministry said that happens . we all have good and bad days .. and sometimes it might be all we can do is connect by phone .. she just isn't up to visitors and that's okay too .. but we realize that and kinda work past it, hopefully.
So .. sounds like they do have some familiarity with how a scene like this plays out.
I'm glad they didn't ask me to join that specific ministry because my heart's not in that kinda thing right now. I am signed on to do the food ministry there, for the sick and homebound .. to make casseroles, etc .. to take to the above. That I can do. And will do.
As things stand right now .. we are gonna tentatively get it set up to go out and meet with MIL after church on Sunday .. I'll hop over and bring some sub sandwiches along . and that will give them an opportunity to meet her and likewise.
Going to let DH get with his mom to make sure that suits her agenda and go from there.
I think the above can be beneficial .. if it works as intended.
Not sure if SIL will get in and muck up the works on it all, .. in that she will get phone #'s for the folks doing this and then be sending her directives from afar. Not the intention of this program.
I'll not be in the middle of that either directing traffic to stave off any medling by SIL .. that will have to either happen organically or DH .. will have to intervene on their behalf should that become an issue.
Will hope this will be an answer to some of what is ongoing with all things "need" and MIL.
Back in the day I volunteered as a friendly visitor to seniors still living on their own. My very first senior almost was the death of me. A Holocaust survivor, she could be very charming and fun but was a cyclone of need, and who could blame her. On our weekly visit, she wanted me to take her out to at least 2 grocery stores (and would only buy freshly sliced meat and cheese at the deli counter, and freshly sliced bread at the bakery counter, etc. etc.) plus swing by the bank for cash and possibly taking her daughter's name off her account or back on, and then lunch. Sometimes there were doctors' visits as well that needed to be attended to.
I was at a loss to say no to a frail little old lady who had suffered so much (she had a concentration camp tattoo on the inside of her arm by her wrist) but my supposed 2 hour volunteering gig was actually taking up most of my entire day off. I struggled to limit our visits to just one grocery store, one other quick errand and lunch, OR a doctor visit and lunch.
When I finally confessed to the volunteer program's social worker about the problems this poor lady had and how I couldn't seem to cope with her needs, she said: "SnoopyLove, YOU have to set boundaries. SHE won't."
I've always remembered those words and they have helped me in countless other situations since!
But no, they won't be able to do that kinda intensive help.
It was interesting as I brought up a need that I know to be upcoming as to a doc visit, the knee injections. They asked where .. and I told them .. it's kinda on the other side of town .. it's like no one from this side of town where we live, really goes over there, to see a doctor, .. we have PLENTY of doctors here on our side of town .. so the question then became, "why does she go all the way over there?". I answered, "no one on this side of town that they're aware of, will do the steroid injections they all want to do TKR . .and she's no candidate for that".
One of the gals mentioned at that point, that she too gets knee injections . but from a doc on this side of town .. and named where it is .. (it's closer by 4 miles). It's a whole lot easier to get to the doc that she mentions .. than it is to get all the way to the other side of town.
Already just some helpful info.
Yes, I do think these gals will be better at setting boundaries than I was when I was on the front with it all. In fact, I'd described one of the other needs that crops up with her, is when she is ailing and/or injured and someone needing to be attendant to that and stay with her. They both shook their heads and said they wouldn't be able to attend to that. Not a surprise. No one can. I didn't expect they'd do that, but was only describing that to show that this is a person that I fervently believe, should no longer be living alone .. but that she just refuses to do otherwise.
They hope to .. they said .. build a trust level with her .. at some point .. if they can . that they can maybe work on persuading her themselves that it's a prudent choice to do otherwise, than living alone.
Keep up the good work!
Set the scene. This evening DH in from work, telling him of the set up today with the two ladies from church. Let's remember, it was his request that I sit with them, as the person who can really aprise them more so than he can, having been on that front.
So I'm giving him the run down of what was discussed and how the conversation went and then culminating in the following:
ME: So the plan is .. at this point .. want to check with you, .. do you have anything directly after church on Sunday? We talked about grabbing some sandwiches and heading to your mom's . to meet with her, and these two ladies will join us .. do you have anything going on, directly after church:
Him, .. scrolling thru smartphone at the moment, not really even listening attentively, says the following:
DH: "I think it'd be best if just you gals go take care of that, I don't think I need to be there".
ME: "Nope .. I sat down with them today at your request .. this is your mother .. I don't care either way if this gets done .. up to you . you don't wanna go, let the ladies there at church you arent interested and we'll drop it all right now".
See ........... see how easy that would be for me to then fall right into the pit of it all again . and just agree, "yes dear, .. well I do know more about it than you ever did .. so we'll do that".
Nope. Not doing that.
I'm just kinda laughing at this point. Just the irony of it all. I am not getting sucked back into this abyss ........
He agreed that he would go along with the plan (of course, what choice does he have at this point).
Once I had his attention I did voice to him the following as a concern:
ME: "I'm kinda of concerned, I really don't wanna see your sister get all up in all of it and then become someone directing these two ladies from afar and burn them out and frustrate them.
WHOLEHEARTED AGREEMENT FROM HIM 1000%
He asked me, how did I think that might happen .. how will she end up in it all, .. and I told him, "well easily DH .. she can just ask your mom for their phone nos . and then there ya go, she's off to the races".
DH: "Nope .. I'm gonna tell mom .. this isn't for Sister to then be directing these ladies around, this is for her .. and a relationship between her and these ladies from church, not between Sister and the ladies at church and mom .. this isn't about sister .. if she calls me, looking for their phone nos .. I'm going to let her know, she needs to stay out of it".
Good, let's hope he sticks to that.
His words: "No, . my sister .. she's all about coming up with tasks and sending everyone scurrying .. this is for my mom.. my mom can direct them how she sees fit, don't need sister up in it doing that".
We'll see.
(hand clapping)
I guess only time will tell if they can gain MIL's confidence and get her to look deeper than her pat answers.
That one specific gal said of the above, "ya know, I'll probably be the same when I can't get around anymore and do much ... I'll be telling my daughters to just leave me be .. if I fall and hit my head and go on to the Glory .. I'm ready".
I responded to that ... "but .. the impact of what happens in between there and here .. that's what is so troubling". And then began to describe some of what MIL has said to DH before as to leaving her be. She's said the same things .. and DH having said to his mom .. "Mom I can't come here and see you laying in the floor having gashed your head and just turn around and say *oh well, she said leave me be* and leave you there, doesn't work like that". At that, the one woman did have to acknowledge that yes, that could be problematic.
Explained to them that the goal .. (supposedly) at this point, is that SIL will retrieve her, take her to IL .. in advance of what will be hurricane season .. and that will commence what will be from there forward .. a six month stint in IL and six months here in FL .. f/t with SIL. But that MIL hedges .. when asked of that set up .. .that she imparts a kind of .. going along to get along hedged w/a demeanor she has no intention of doing the above.
It will be interesting to see if they can gain her trust and build a relationship there, and ultimately .. maybe persuade her to look at things from a broader perspective rather than her own small existence and her needs.
Will be important too .. the one less experienced woman, lost her son this past fall, 40 something YO. He was former military, suffered from terrible PTSD. I don't know what his ultimate demise was, but I do know he'd been residing in a special group home sort of setting as a result of his disability and involved in numerous programs to help him. But he passed, this past Fall. Will be interesting for MIL to hear this story .. she has a son she has lost also .. but to estrangement.
I'm to call MIL this morning to check in with her, to see if she has given some thought (made a list) of what I might do to help her tomorrow. We'll see how that goes.
Pondering .. (I don't think that her neighbor, Flighty C ... has contacted her about a trip to the grocery store, as had been the supposed set up of all this engagement she is reaching out for .. per SIL). Don't' think that has occured. From what I know just from DH checking in with her .. doesn't sound like Flighty C has been in touch at all.
That's nothing I want to get in the middle of being assigned to do. I will go and get her list, if she would like to step off of insisting on going. I will sit down with her, laptop in hand .. and get this set up going, .. to get grocery delivery if that's something she will acquiesce to doing .. but I don't want to be in the biz again ... of traspesing around the grocery store in a 3 hour endeavor of getting $40 worth of groceries .. and talking to every living breathing soul. I don't see her agreeing to either of the above, ..
So I will have to determine before I even call her, that's not something I'm going to do and somehow impart that to her.
Bounce that right back to her neighbor, Flighty C .. "thought C was gonna help you with that, no go ahead and get ahold of her, what else is it that I might help you with tomorrow when I come".
As MIL gets to know the church ladies, I hope she is sensitive and respectful enough to NOT spin this into a false analogy.
She just might, though. MIL is exquisitely tone-deaf. And fond of one-upping.
No Guestshopadmin .. I don't think the piece meal way that SIL has patched things together here, .. with MOW drivers supposedly agreeing to be available for some things .. with the Flighty C next door neighbor agreeing to take her grocery shopping .. I don't think it's going to be viable in the end.
I will say that here .. in this forum .. but they won't hear it out of my mouth. I don't get "heard" anyway. So have at it.
I might be prone to help a neighbor in some small way if asked .. but you can bet I'd be ducking and dodging much more than the smallest of help on occasion. Anything routine .. I'd be dodging that person .. pretty routinely. Doesn't SIL realize when you ask someone, put them on the spot, .. of course .. I bet 9 times out of 10 .. the person will answer in the affirmative "oh certainly, yes I will help", and then when they walk away they think to themselves, "OH MY ........... I sure hope this doesn't turn into a nightmare of regular routine errands ...".
Yes, I was on board for helping to pay for the paltry 8 hours a month that SIL was going to sign on for .. our share of that expense. But when totaled, .. and I guess .. (YES I EXPECT MIL to contribute) .. she can maybe put aside some dog expense and figure a way to contribute .. to the expense of same ...... when it's SHE WHO IS SO INSISTENT she remain in her home. When it all totaled .. I guess the decision was made from on high .. too costly. Thus it was nixed in lieu of patchworking together what can be done as freebies by neighbors and associates.
I highly doubt it's going to be viable in the end ..
And you're right .. MIL will soon tire of the sparse (what she considers) on-hands care of the church folks. It's a mere two woman ministry .. and they happen to be launching this ministry at the time there are two other "active church members" that are recently dx'd with cancer and need on that front, they will also need to speak to, as to transportation and/or errands, companionship/prayer, etc.
So they will be stretched pretty thin. I haven't heard them say if this is a once a week thing, once-every-other-week .. once a month .. what their plans are. But I don't imagine they will be able to be hands on, not as much as MIL needs.
I did call her this morning to see if she'd come up with anything that I might help her with (her housekeeper was there at the time, and so I interrupted their ongoing conversation with my phone call). Answer was: "yes, oh I would like that, I'm sure I have a couple of things you can help me with ... ". She didn't elaborate.
If I get there and it's groceries .. it's gonna be a rude awakening when I ask her, "ok, let's sit down here and see if we can't get you signed up for delivery .. and we'll sit right here .. and get it done".
She will then respond, (I know her well) .. "Oh well I really like to go .. you know .. it's kind of an outing for me, .. I like to go and look at things and such .. and talk to the people there".
I will respond, "that's great, .. I know C next door was going to be addressing that for you, maybe we'll put this sign up away .. and you ck with her, .. what else is it I can help with today?".
1. Dorker, you mention that SIL was "abdicating her responsibilities" to go back to IL. If MIL is competent, then it is NOT SIL's responsibility to make sure MIL has a safer living situation. After staying with MIL nonstop for nearly 3.5 months, she has certainly done her part. And honestly, I'm quite surprised that she says MIL can be with her 24/7, be it 6 months in IL and then 6 months in FL, considering the way MIL treats BIL. She'd be kicked to the curb if she treated my husband the way she treats BIL!
2. I lost a son 7 years ago. I always appreciate when people remember his birthday and his death date. My grief will never be over. I know society expects it to be a one-year process, but that is not how it is. And I also know that society is extremely uncomfortable about losing a child, since it is out of the natural order of things and doesn't occur that often (anymore).
3. Dorker, I do not understand why you ever got involved with getting the church ladies together with MIL. Since you did meet with them initially, OF COURSE you would be expected to go to the meeting with MIL. H's attendance at that lunch meeting with MIL is extraneous. You are the one who informed the church ladies all about MIL.
(I looked up the "Stephen Ministries," and this is no way is going to be the taxi and errand service for MIL. She will be visited probably ONCE a week for an hour. The church ladies will be backing off very quickly in the light of MIL's neediness.)
Dorker, I KNOW you are hurt because you were taken advantage of for years with all the stepping and fetching. I don't blame you. You said you were going to step back, and now you really need to do just that. DON'T step in at all beyond the visit to MIL on Thursday mornings. You keep getting involved in other things, despite your saying you won't be. In for a dime, in for a dollar. H and SIL can deal with MIL. You spend a lot of time worrying about the whole issue. You have done a fine job of stepping back instead of stepping and fetching, but you keep mentioning some little steps you keep taking to still be involved.
However, you did. This is the first time you've brought it up here. My MIL talked about losing her husband constantly. She posted not just the count on fb, but daily misery posts. She could not get through the day herself and had numerous paid assistants. When her psych doc told her to knock it off with the dwelling on loss, she started receiving some serious help - medication and counseling.
If someone is feeling sad and lonely, it is still their job to reach out to others to let people know how they are doing. My MIL did a great job of letting people know how much she missed her husband. But in the case of someone who is handling grief well, and who has not expressed the need, should other people place a level of grief expectation on their interactions, especially when they don't remember the deceased?
Ie, should someone be reminded? I think it's debatable. I myself posted on a special old lady's inactive fb page on her 2 year death date remembering her this year. She was my mentor for years and it struck me that day. But I never mentioned that it was her anniversary of entering heaven. None of her very large, close, religious family posted anything there or on their own pages.
But even more specifically, should someone who is in early dementia, who has not recently expressed grief to anyone, and who has a long history of manipulation be reminded? That would be Dorker's MIL, and I still say that answer is no.
CTTN, I hope you stick around. It's good to have your opinion and calling out when you think folks are wrong. It makes for good civil discussion and deep thought. Again, I don't know how you get through the day. There's at least one other poster who has a similar situation with the loss of a child, and I've only seen her mention her loss once. You both are amazing people. Heroes in my book, soldiering on.
Now MIL is sitting at home with no concrete direction. “Maybe” Flighty C may call, “maybe” the church ladies will come, but it’s all gray.
Thus the saga continues. Actually the only one (again) who has committed to anything is Dorker - one day a week.
Yes I am happy that Dorker has been heard, but that’s about it.
Her son doesn’t care. Her daughter bailed.
So now there is a needy senior, doesn’t matter what her personality is like (narcissistic or whatever) & her family has decided to let the cards fall as they may.
If I were you, Dorker, I would simply stay out. It’s hard to do but you are the only proactive voice in the crowd. Her kids have checked out until another crisis occurs.
I see a vulnerable senior living alone because neither of her children will actually face the fact that their mother is elderly & needs 24/7 care. A baby step would have been to hire the agency aide.
Its awful that her family chooses to wait until an event that forces their hand.
And yet Dorker is involved every day in some manner even if it’s just discussing his mother (DH) or worrying about her. While it’s great Dorker is comfortable with her decision, the 500 lb elephant is still in the room.
Thinking more about it, I might call APS as an option. At least keep that in my arsenal.
When I refer to SIL having "abdicated" her responsibility to her mother. It's said from a frame of reference, she is the only one that has a willingness (debateable whether that should transpire, for sure) to take her mother to her home, to a more supervised setting. Her son, works still .. and her son's wife .. (me) .. not willing to take her in for 24/7 care.
Yes, there is always the option of an AL .. or nursing home that should be pushed .. but we've seen thru the countless posts here, they aren't going to do that. SIL nor DH .. push that agenda.
Thus I refer to "abdicating" her responsibility to her mom in the above terms.
Indeed she does come here when calamity occurs .. and she does walk on water, literally, to nurse her mom back to her normally compromised state.
It's a difference in the approach. If it were my mom .. and I'm the one dealing with it, captaining the ship, as SIL does in this instance .. she'd be encouraged by me to do otherwise .. and if she didn't do so .. with the assumption, "she'll be fine, she'll manage", then that would be precisely what would occur, as to my participation in it. She would have to manage.
SIL has left to return to IL, and as Shane so aptly put it .. there's all this gray area as to who is gonna do what, and when/how. No system, no organization to any of it.
So let's assume then, that MIL is completely capable of navigating the above .. then .. great .. she can do so. She can let Flighty C know that she needs to go to the grocery and it won't be a matter that when I land there today to help MIL out, that I now have to have a discussion with her, . "No, MIL now remember .. it was said that Flighty C would be helping with that, so you need to reach out to her .. now what else is it that you and I can do, to get your some of the things you need taken care of".
As to my participation with the ladies of the church .. this was a proposition that was put forth a year ago .. as I was approaching all parties involved here, as to engaging 3rd parties in this, to help with the excessive need. This was something DH had proposed. I had mentioned this proposition a year ago, and it was flat out refused, along with any other 3rd party involvement, at that time.
Since then,.. of course, there has been, on MIL's behalf, attempt to engage Flighty C next door (don't know who engaged that situation, SIL or MIL) .. and then .. MIL having reached out to her MOW drivers as to whether they'd be available for errands .. and SIL .. aware that the churh folks was an option at one point, querried if that is still an availability. She was told, by me, .. that is indeed something they would like to help with as they think the world of me and DH and would like to help us. But it was told to SIL she would need to have MIL talk to DH about it.
MIL did talk to DH about it, . and ask that the above be looked into.
DH did talk to the ladies there at church (he teaches Sunday School and the two ladies in question are in his class). From there, it was asked of me, .. by DH .. would I go meet with them, as I have been the one on the front, far more than he, and would know more of what she needs.
I did so.
I met with them, to apprise them (their request, they wanted to know what her needs are, and what options have been considered, etc).
My participation in the above, is more of a matter that I don't wish to bring out a flame thrower and ignite the whole situation with an explosion of "Dorker is so mean and obstinent she won't even help the ladies in the church, they want to help .. she won't even sit down and talk with them, to give them a heads up as to what they are walking into".
Subsequent to that setting, they asked how it might be best that they meet with MIL. It was my suggestion, for MIL's comfort level .. as well as their comfort level . that we meet Sunday after church, at MIL's house. I'll stop and pick up some sandwiches for us .. and we'll sit and visit .. and all of us in attendance .. that way they can meet her, and likewise .. and with people MIL is comfortable around, present also.
So yes, .. while I have said I am backing out of all this .. sans the one morning a week she has a commitment from me, to assist her .. I didn't see anything terribly slippery sloped in helping to facilitate the above.
I don't care to be involved any further, once all parties have met one another, and I won't be in the position of cornering them at church, to give them directives from afar or otherwise. That will be between MIL and these ladies .. and what that looks like, .. in the way of any help they provide, or doesn't look like, .. in the way of any real help .. is not going to be on me to direct. Nor SIL, .. if DH has anything to say about it.
These are folks that I obviously care about. I could've long ago, turned and walked away entirely and told all involved, .. "Don't even mention her name in my presence .. I want absolutely nothing to do with any of it ... I don't even want to hear her name".
Flame thrower!
Obviously I care about all the parties involved here and don't wish to insinerate the relationships built over years and years.
But I'm also trying to walk a fine line of placing some real, firm, barriers as to what my participation is.
As to the reminders of bdays/anniversaries, etc .. I think, my standpoint in it all comes from a place of having hopped to the beat of directives from afar, for far far too long.
To have received a missive from SIL the other day marking that date .. as the anniversary of her parents .. and the bday of their departed aunt.
My feeling .. kind of along the lines of .. ya know, I'm just done taking directives from afar on just about any point .. period. If you are concerned this is a sad, blue day for your mom .. send her flowers .. whatever it is you think you need to do .. but running it up our flagpole . not something I stomach real well anymore.
If, let's say MIL had put in a call to her son, "gee, ya know this is just a really tough day for me .. it's the date of our anniversary had your dad still been alived, and also your Aunt J's bday .. it's just a tough day for me to get through .. wonder if you'd have some time to come out this evening when you're done with work . and visit a bit".
I think I'd of found that whole lot more palatable than the above.
Comes from, at least with me, a place of being done with directives from afar. I Just done with it.
I am on my way out now, to go see about MIL for the morning .. and we'll see how it all goes.
I hope you don't exit this particular thread CTTN .. I value everyone's opinion .. even when it contrasts my own. And again, I'm terribly sorry for the loss of your son. The fact that you manage to function every day ..is beyond anything I can even grasp.
Not anymore.
And when I say I am facilitating this set up so they can meet, that is all I'm doing. I don't intend to be a third part of some triangle here, as to their service, and MIL's needs. She can speak up as to what she needs/wants from them, as they, hopefully, build a bond with one another .. or she can choose not to. I won't be participating in what they form as a relationship going forward. That's between them. As it should be.
Directives from afar .. "can you see if you can check with those ladies in your church .. mom needs ____________ and __________", will be responded to, with "talk to your brother". Hopefully, her brother will stress to his sister that's a situation that MIL needs to converse with them about. And leave it at that. But that's between all of them. Boundaries.
I did go over to MIL's this morning and it worked out fine. She has, apparently, gotten a little skittish about showering, with no one there. So she asked if I would l mind, just sitting in her bedroom, while she showers. No, that's fine with me. She asked that I take a picture with my phone, and text it to SIL . .. some bill from her most recent hospital visit.. something in dispute .. and SIL is working that angle, to see if she can get it resolved. I did that, not a problem. She asked if I would get down on the floor at the bottom of her nightstand and sort through and haul away .. (donate to my church) a load of books that she had there. I did that for her. She asked that I fold a load of laundry that was left in her dryer. I did that.
And then I was gone.
It worked out great. Things I don't mind helping with on the one lone morning I have set aside to help her.
I'm sure she could use help every single day .. if I'd go there .. she could come up with a myriad of things she needs me to do. But I won't be doing that. That's what I used to do, that's what got me where I am with it all, completely burned out and used up.
I asked her if there was anything she needs from the grocery store that I can go get for her .. she said SIL ..... she's quite sure .. didn't leave a thing at the grocery store for others to go and buy .. because it's all at her house .. SIL having stocked every cupboard and everything she could possibly think of to buy. So no assistance needed there.
I sat and visited with her, while sorting thru books and that about summed up the duration of my stay there.
When I got there, she was finishing up washing up her few breakfast dishes and she complained that every single thing she does is so tiring. Just to get up and get herself some breakfast and then to wash those few dishes and put them away .. she has to then rest for a while. And she did, rest a bit. She complains that it's getting harder and harder for her to walk. I asked, "with the walker?". Yes. I asked her, .. "what is it, .. is it pain .. in your knees ...???...balance ...???...what it is it?". She said it's both of the above, but also just strength .. just seems like it takes more strength than she has, to be able to walk, along with the balance issues she has and the knee pain. Said the steroid shots .. they didn't seem to help as much this time. (Knew that could be the case at some point, .. I guess they do become ineffective after a time, or they can become ineffective .. maybe that's where it's at, who knows).
Her nasty upper respiratory issue seems to be resolving .. thankfully. No pnumonia that's going to send her to the hospital. So that's good.
She has been one week now .. since SIL has gone home and no catastrophies .. not yet.
I think that just the fact that she she is going along with these changes is a good sign. It's all little steps to the realization that it can't be like it was and she may have to make a bigger change - more paid care, live with SIL, etc. Progress!
MIL sends SIL away assuring she'll be fine, she'll manage.
But .. does no one see .. "sure she's fine .. SIL is there doing everything for her, but breathe". SIL goes away .. and now she is the one who must actually go about the motions of fixing herself a bowl of cereal and some fruit for breakfast or a bowl of oatmeal .. or whatever. She is the one who must feed the dog, with all the special concoctions that go into that process .. she is the one who must now go let the dog out, and let the dog back in. She is the one who must now go wash those breakfast dishes .. And that's only first thing in the morning. She is the one to now go to her door and retrieve her mail (it's delivered right to her door) .. she's the one that has to go thru that mail .. she's the one that has to now get up and get herself something for lunch and clean it up, all while continuing to let her dog in and out. She's the one who has to throw in a load of laundry if she so chooses, and then get it out and fold it (unless like today I happen to come by and she can have me fold it).
Then I go over there and what I observe is someone very weak/frail .. and in fact complains about how tired she is, .. that she doesn't do much of anything .. but it tires her so .. and she complains that she just doesn't feel like she has the strength anymore, to walk, .. and her balance worse .. and her knees painful ..
Of course she's fine, when SIL is here, doing all the above and more. Of course!
Same pervasive pattern ...
And no I didn't take the opportunity to say to her, "Gee Mother In Law Dearest .. seems to me you'd do so much better in an AL where all these concerns would be something that you could have assistance with".
Not fighting that battle.
I only responded: "Well important you continue to do these things if you want to live alone .. . keeps you active" .. and I moved along to another topic.
Perfect comeback to the "whine" MIL threw at you.
My mother too complains about just being so tired all the time. Well, she's a hard-run 88 and not totally compliant as to her exercises and such--and she doesn't eat muchm barely moves (She's super proud of weighing 125 lbs, but she's all of 4'9" tall now....so, whatever makes her feel good about herself.) so when she DOES have a "busy day" she's exhausted for 3-4 days afterwards. Bingo one day and grocery shopping one day (OMGosh, I laughed at your MIL taking 3 hrs to work the store. So does my mom--she hasn't hugged ME in over 30 years, but she hugs and kisses the deli guy, the butcher, the checker, the pharmacists....) I guess it's easier to love people who think you're just amazing for being upright at 88 and still grocery shopping...instead of your annoying kids.
You did good! You did what you said you'd do and no more!! Keep that up.
When she complains about this and such, I also just say "You don't have to live where you are, mother, one call to the sisters and I and we will have you out of here (brother's house) in a hot second. Then she retreats into her silence, b/c all she wants really, is sympathy. I give a very little. She CHOSE to be right where she is, with all the accompanying dramas.