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margaret - no doubt in the past I've allowed him to be like this.
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jasmina - yes that sounds like a plan. Reason he wont do the POA is because he says "no need for that - all I need is to be able to ask a few things and you to help me, thats all".

And it costs £200. So no chance even if I paid for it.
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Put the phone down on him last night....

After last weekend where he apologised for intruding, apologised for getting involved in my business.

Last night I had criticisms that I didn't have enough money to go on holiday - nice one.

Im doing a sponsored walk this weekend and have had a tummy bug. So then I get criticism for doing it, advice that I have to go to doctors, then he wants me to phone saturday am to confirm I'm NOT doing the walk otherwise "He'll be worried about me!".

"NO. I will speak to you on sunday. Bye"
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I wouldn't call that "putting the phone down" Paul. I'd call that, bringing the conversation to a natural end, that's all.

Isn't it funny how guilt pops out and gurns at you? You sound as if you feel like you hung up on your father, as though you screamed at him and smashed the phone down, and are now going around with a lead weight in your stomach over it. But you didn't! You brought a tedious and fruitless conversation to a perfectly courteous conclusion. What's wrong with that?
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Paul: Sending well wishes your way today.
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Paul, your brother must surely be having his own problems with your mutual father. (And if not, you need his advice about it!) You don’t approve of everything he does, eg abandoning children, but it’s true that a late remarriage doesn’t come with an expectation of an unplanned live-in child. His wife seems to have decided to stay out of the way, so she may not be as stupid as suggested.

It could be an idea to have a talk to brother about all the issues – difficult father, stupid requests, guilt and obligation about single-dad upbringing, possible visits to estranged mother, wives with different views, etc etc. If you two could bury the hatchet (and not in each other's heads!), you might be able to work out a strategy that would make life easier for both of you. It would have to help if you were both consistent in your approaches.

Another strategy to consider! Yours, Margaret
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margaret - problem is brother lives a mile away from Dad - I live 25 miles. He has no kids to look after, I have. His partner does not work, mine does.

Yes he works but he tends to send his wife up to see my Dad and job done for him. Shes happy to do so it seems (she can see his money I think!). Hes then free to come home, go down the pub whenever he wants with just an hour visit on a saturday am for him. If Dad kicks off its not a big deal for him as long as it doesnt ruin his night out.

But then he expects me to be the same and, same as Dad, he tells me I should put Dad first above my family. Easy for him to say of course.

I've given up talking to him. He won't listen - thats the deal as far as hes concerned.
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Paul, the actual difference between your brother and you is that he doesn't waste time fretting about what he's not prepared to do, and you do.

Your respective values, clearly, are also different, but we needn't comment on those. He does what he thinks is right - getting someone else to help your Dad, leaving his daughter to others to sort out, going to work, seeing his mates, giving you instructions - and you do what you think is right. But having made his choices, he doesn't worry.

You could do worse than take that particular leaf out of his book. I think your judgement is probably more worthy of confidence than his, so it's a pity and an irony that you're the one who wastes so much effort on questioning it and defending it.

To be fair to your brother, though, I also think you're rather missing Margaret's point. What I've just said about him is my opinion based on your description of him. But I expect his description would be different; and Margaret is explaining that he too probably finds looking after your father a struggle, in his own way. Comparing notes instead of accusing and blaming one another might indeed be productive.

He tells you that you should do more to help your father.
What do you ever tell him he should do? Anything? Or are you always on the defensive with him?
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Paul you are still telling your dad what you are doing on weekends. You cant do that with him. You should make your personal life "off limits".
If dad/brother bring it up, you go silent. They cant complain about things they are not entitled to know.

Thats on you for telling him. You know you would get a lecture about whatever it is. You are unavailable on the weekend. Leave it at that. They cant comment or lecture if they dont know. If they start to lecture, walk away, hang up phone. Good luck.
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CM - My brother lies and pulls the wool over Dads eyes all the time. Hes been caught quite a few times now. Then he makes out hes wonderful and everyone should do this that and the other....
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Jasmina - You're right. I've started doing this. Otherwise it was starting to become a case that Dad wanted reasons and justification of every spare moment of my weekend that was not spent visiting him.

Of course, I've still got to be careful of the "exclusion zone". I can't admit to being within 10 miles of his home because this would mean I should have visited in his eyes.
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Paul how about checking out some youtube vids on how to deal with manipulative people. It will give you more tools in your arsenal. You are still very much stuck in guilt mode. I know all about that. Very hard to unlearn. You have to shut that voice down in your head as soon as it starts. Narc mother/sibl did the same to me. Good luck.
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Jasmina - yeh I know that. Its not so much guilt last few months, more like anger that I've got to deal with it all the time.
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It is good that you have (mostly) lost the guilt, however you need to let the anger go too. Anger is almost worse than guilt. It will eat you up, keep you stressed and likely invite more infections/illness - ALL bad for you. Now, think about this: What does that anger do to your father or brother? NOTHING. NADA. ZILCH!

I was angry with my brothers for the little help and empathy they provided for me, who has done the bulk of getting mom assessed, placed, and ensuring she has what she needs, hauling her butt to the ER, doctors and dentists, managing all her "affairs" AND coordinating/doing a lot of the cleanup, fix up and sale of her condo. The condo sucked up about a year and a half alone (plus it was about 1.5 hours each way!) I found myself tense, which leads to pain (spinal issues flare up as well as other pain), ranting at them (while alone in my own home) when I am overwhelmed with tasks, etc. I finally realized this is NOT good for me and does NOTHING to change them and doesn't help me get done what needs doing.

I typed up an email/letter of sorts to one brother who had called me a know-it-all (among other things) early in the whole saga (I am not one, but know more than he does about dementia AND I don't keep my head in the sand about it!) to set him straight, but never sent it. The other brother, I thought I could count on him, but apparently that abusive one year older brother of mine is still the same as he was when we were young (physically, verbally and psychologically abusive.) After several warning signs that I missed, he threw me to the floor twice and was extremely verbally abusive while packing his stuff to leave after I told him to get the F out of my house!

He gets angry if you don't understand him, he gets angry if he doesn't understand you, thinks he knows more than he does, criticizes everyone else because he is just soooo perfect and everyone else is sooo stupid.

After the fact, it is like it never happened, for him that is. I suffered with a badly bruised ankle for WEEKS. Thankfully he isn't local because he isn't welcome back here, ever. I typed up another email/letter for him, but did not send it. After the condo sale, guess who had to handle all the tax issues (it involved all of us because it was a life-estate)? He posed multiple questions, asking me instead of the tax preparer. Like I know anything about this stuff!!! I would only answer what was needed (such as call the tax person!) and didn't respond to some emails and/or questions - in his mind the incident was over the next day, so he just doesn't get it (I did some research on this and found out that sibling abuse is under-represented, likely more pervasive than other domestic abuse and is not very well studied. Too often parents, or whoever, including the abused, chalk it up to sibling rivalry! I can assure you that it is not.)

Writing it down like that was somewhat cathartic. It allowed me to get it all out (multiple writing/editing sessions!) and then let it go. The letters are still there in my draft folder, but will likely stay there. NEITHER will even understand or accept that they are the problem. However, it is like burying the anger there - it is trapped in that email and over time it has had less and less impact on me. At this point, I couldn't tell you what I wrote, but I have no desire to go look!

Try it, you might like it! Even if you have no time to write, at least understand the anger is not helping you, is NOT impacting them and does you more harm than good. When you feel it coming on, deeeep breath and refocus on something pleasant, like your wife or your kids (at least when they are all behaving nice!!!) ;-)
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Watch "SEVEN MIND GAMES PLAYED BY THE NARCISSIST" on YouTube
https://youtu.be/6WtsPc3w9XU
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Paul - good that you don't feel guilty because you're not the one at fault. It's your dad who keeps trying to make you feel guilty in order to control you. I hope you finally realize that.

Now that you're feeling angry, the best thing to do is to channel that anger into positive actions to improve your situation/relationship to where you are in control of your actions and your time. Change one step at a time, one call at a time, one conversation at a time, one 'putting the phone down' at a time. He'll learn that you're not the same Paul that he was controlling like a marionette.
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Polar - No guilt here any more.... Anger which is probably not so good mind. I should just let it go.

It does wear me down at the moment. Its like a game of chess. I refuse to do something, he counters with another attack, then something else. Some days I just dont want to speak to him/see him because I know it'll be a battle. He wont give in easily it seems.
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Classic yesterday from him. "So what are you doing for xmas?". In other words, are you inviting me over?

My wife literally cannot stand him. As I've said before, shes spot on as well. Hes caused so much grief for everyone.

After the last weekend away incident wife was REALLY annoyed (since brother dragged her into it too). Of course, she knows what goes on and has seen him do the same thing several times in the last few months.

He apologised to me. (Wearing a bit thin when he does the same thing a week later) and asked me to apologise to wife.

Now its as if it never happened and has been swept under the carpet (hes a master at doing this - things just wont get mentioned again ever). He just does not get that hes caused so much trouble,
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Watch "Your Angry Reactions To The Narcissist" on YouTube
https://youtu.be/nC5tL2k0ds4
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Paul - I hope you didn't take his bait. Having him there will ruin Christmas for you and your family. Did you respond to him?
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Polar - No. I ignored him.

Probably already said on here but hes ruined a few xmases. I used to drive 60 mins round trip to collect him, then 60 mins home. He always played up and upset everyone. I used to massive arguments with wife thinking she was being mean but he proved that he just ruined it for everyone and didnt give a monkeys about anyone else. (He used to try and demand I pick him up certain time, then I'd say "after the kids opened the presents", and he'd say "they can manage" or "well they'll just have to to understand". Yes when one of them was 3-4 years old).

Last year, I invited him boxing day. Wife is a nurse so I just said she's working xmas day. (She ended up working boxing day so she was VERY happy to miss him).

In all honesty, even boxing day I can't expect my wife to put up with him. She may be working or may go out shopping I don't know. Other than that I was going take him out on my own to a restaurant or something.

He'll probably push it and want to know why though and I'll probably have to tell him its best he doesn't visit. Then he'll fake upset and wonder what hes done. Seen it before...
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"We're going away for Christmas this year, Dad".

Haven't you ever heard of lying?
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Tell him he ruins Christmas for the family and that is why he is not allowed over Christmas day. Tell him he cant behave himself so he's not unvited. When he starts arguing, shut it down. Tell him right there is the reason. Walk away, hang up the phone.
I had to stop inviting my parents for Xmas. Mom would keep trying to talk politics to start a fight. Wind herself up in the process. It was ugly. Who wants to hear that? I think part of it was being so alone, so when she got around people whatever was in her head came out with force. She learned her lesson, but it took a few years. Other families members had to talk to her about it. She did behave herself after. We were able to have some good holidays. Put I had to teach her how to treat me.
Mind you it didnt stop arguments in other places outside the home. Narcs try to control you in other places. I know all about narcs.
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yeh I can only lie so much to be honest or I'll get found out....

Telling him straight. Maybe. But I'd rather not upset him too much really.
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This is too familiar. I'm so sorry you are going through this.

At one point when my dad was just absolutely and totally and ridiculously childish and demanding it was clear to me: he has plenty of options, and if something happened right now- I would be sad but NOT FEEL GUILTY.

And that set me free. I don't know if that's helpful. Of course I waffled in and out of this "enlightened" mindset. But for the time, it helped with my burn out.
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Hi KaiulaniK - Yes I think I'm at that point now. He got so bad with pointless demands and behaviours that I just thought "hang on now what are you playing at?"

Then I began to see that MOST of the stuff he wanted me to do was not because he needed it done but because he liked having someone doing something for him. As he's fought back I can see how desperate he is that he wants me to just be there to do exactly what he wants me to do.

Number of times, past few weeks where hes wanted something. I've offered an alternative, which is better (but easier for me) and hes backed down. Then I've invited him places and hes said no, then hes moaned he never goes out and I've reminded him - again he backs down.
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Paul, at the risk of the broken record thing -

Yes, he is seeking attention. He craves interaction. He is lonely, and hangs on to contact with you long past the point where there is any need for or meaning to it.

Now: where might he go and live where he would be interacting with his peers and others all day long, do you think?

I honestly can't think of any other senior person I've heard described who would benefit *more* from residential care, while he's still fit enough to adapt to it. Do him and yourself a real favour and push for it.
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Hi Paul, you’ve walked a long road from your first posts about what a great Dad you have. You can probably see now that made yourself the softest touch in the family, and so put up with being treated the worst. You are a nice man, and now the challenge is to stop accepting this position, without actually being cruel to Dad. Country Mouse has to be right, that he will never get the social support he needs unless he moves to live with more people. More social interaction might not completely stop his need to be in control, but it has to help.

Once again, could you get on good enough terms with your brother so that you can push this together? A joint strategy has to be better than being on opposite sides. And also once again, how about meeting your mother? She might have some useful ideas too.
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CM - You're not wrong it'd be great for Dad....

Alas, as with all things, once and idea is in his head, he won't let it go. Homes for the elderly are like Work Houses in Charles Dickens' time in my Dads head....

Also, we're talking South Wales valleys here. Its the sort of place where, especially his generation, "men are men", and to be "put away in a home" is something to be talked about in hushed tones.....
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Margaret - Ship has sailed with my brother. Hes a complete A@hole and has made it clear what his views are.

I tried to speak to him the other day.... Tried to explain that I had other commitments etc which were different to his. His reply "that's your problem not mine, but Dad needs looking after". Even when I said even if I wanted to I just can't commit to the time his answer was "not my problem you need to choose then". Nice eh?

Meeting with my mother is something I am considering...
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