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polarbear said:

"Paul - I'd love to be a fly on the wall when you told your dad you would arrange for him to go to a home. I bet the look on his face was priceless. Haha."

Yes, priceless! Too bad you didn't get a picture of his reaction....
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From what you say he can do for himself, he doesn't really have a "need", other than wanting someone there all the time to listen to his woes and do his bidding.
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"A lot of the older generation there have the idea that "your kids look after you", and "you go to a home to die". Its considered shameful (in some eyes) that you've put your parent away in a home. Nuts aint it?"

Not much different here, except that there are those who are the children who lambaste others on this forum for not toeing that line. So, it isn't just the "older" generation who thinks like that.

It is one thing to take in a parent who needs assistance and is "reasonable." It is another when they really don't need that help or are overly cantankerous and won't take any hints about changing. My mother and her sisters' families took turns caring for their mother. She was easy going and easy to care for, In cases like that, yes, do what you can. My mother? There are many reasons, some physical (both inability to support her weight and her inability to do stairs, no way to handicap this house, etc) and some not physical, that I can't do that for her. She has dementia, is now 96 going on 2 (sometimes), outweighs me, refusing to stand/walk now, so there is no way that I could care for her. I have enough trouble caring for myself!

It all depends on the situation and one's capabilities. There is no cut black/white on this issue. In your case, it would be a huge mistake to take him in. Don't let what others say or think bother you. It is NONE of their business.
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Paul;
Your information about NHS paying/checking is not much different than here. I'm no expert, so the following is all based on what I have read/learned.

In the US, for the most part for Assisted Living and Memory Care you are pretty much on your own. There are maybe a few that Medicaid will cover, but it depends on each state's rules and income levels (which are ridiculously low in most cases.) Nursing home, which many on this forum suggest, is for those who need specialized nursing care and they will assess (maybe if you self-pay and are wealthy they'd let you in!), so it also isn't an option for many. Your dad wouldn't qualify, nor would my mother, at this time. We haven't gone the Medicaid route, but from everything I have read about it, the restrictions and hoops/hurdles are difficult to maneuver through.

I can't say for sure what the asset level is for all states, but I believe it is 2k for the person. If there is a spouse, there are some exclusions for them, to help ensure they are not impoverished, but certainly not 25k for the person in question (dollars or whatever), it is a very low Iimit. If there is a house, they will put a lien on it and get as much spent on the person back as possible after death.

Checking for transfer of assets - a few weeks ago??? HAHAHAHAHA - the look-back is FIVE YEARS here in the US. Again, haven't had to go down this rabbit hole, but it sounds like they will use a scope to ensure a nickel hasn't been spent on something or given away!
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Barb - yeh. I come from an area that could be said to be a little "backward" shall we say. Its 12 miles from our capital city but it could be a milllion to be honest.

A lot of the older generation there have the idea that "your kids look after you", and "you go to a home to die". Its considered shameful (in some eyes) that you've put your parent away in a home. Nuts aint it?
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Dear Paul, at least where I come from, one's parents are not one's responsibility. One's children are.

You offer to set stuff up and that's it.

"No dad, I cant do that. I have my wife and kids to look after." "No dad, I choose not to do that. We all make out choices, don't we?"

Of course, you have to not care what he or your brother think. Try not to let their bad opinion bother you.
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polar - yes you're right. Dad has proved in the past that no tactic is off limits.

Not getting what you want from medical people or your sons - self-injure to get admitted to hospital. Done that a few times.

Make out your dying - done that a few times.

Hes already said a few times that "he doesn't see the point in going on". Its getting there.
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Needhelpwithmom - thank you for the kind words. Thats so nice of you.

Over the years Dad has done MANY things that have been pretty awful. Hes been selfish, inconsiderate, the lot. As with you, he is completely disinterested in my kids.

For years, my wife put up with him. He came over every Xmas day. It was a nightmare. He made inappropriate comments, he commented on things that were none of his business, he generally acted like he was the important one. I tried to have a chat with him and his attitude was generally "well I'm old, if I've got something to say I've got say it".

My wife and I argued over it a bit but to be fair she put up with him and was polite to him. It ruined Xmas for me.

A few years ago he really was in a mood. Made out he was ill. Moaned the whole time. (Ate all his dinner though!). When I took him home he tried to say "he wasn't going to make it through the holidays". Wanted to call an ambulance. Stupidly, I stayed for hours talking to him. All the time my kids were waiting for Daddy to come home to play with their new toys. I got home at 9pm...

That was the final straw. No more Xmas day. Last year I told him my wife was working (shes a nurse) and he could come boxing day (she was working so didnt see him).

I'm going to so the same this year. Hes not going to like it.

I can't expect my wife to put up with him any more. Hes my Dad and thats it but to be honest, if he was not, theres a phrase I'd used to describe him "a completly selfish ahole".

Of course, recently hes realised that wife no longer has contact with him and he doesnt like it one bit. Neither does brother who thinks she should be helping. I don't get it - its her choice after all. Remember this birthday when he tried to get me to force her to ring him?

So now they've both realised shes not interested and are trying to drag her back in its crazy.

Yep so 100% behind my wife and her decision. She went years putting up with him for me and I appreciate that. Now that its gone too far I understand her choices of not having contact with him.
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Polar - oh yes he expected me to say "Oh no oh no I'll look after you". I didn't.
I said "up to you" and "so what exactly is the problem?"

"What are you struggling with that I haven't either helped with or sorted a solution?"

His answer "I can't carry shopping home". My head nearly popped. As I've said before, hes got a freezer 5% full deliberately, and hes turned down my offer of home delivery about 10 times. Oh and he gets meals on wheels 5 times a week and could have 7 but "it gets a bit expensive at £3-60 a day". Give me strength.
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Llama/Neehelp - yeh its crazy. Apparently I'm not pulling my weight.
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Barb - To be honest I need to look into it. I know in the UK, if you need due to medical reasons the NHS will pay. BUT they try to get out of it. And I think you get the default "home".

If you decide to go yourself, pretty much you've got to pay until your assets are less than something like £25K. Including house. They'll take it off you in trust until you die too.

And they're very hot on "disposal of income". They check if you've transferred £50K out a few weeks ago.
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Llama,

I totally agree with your view. Amazing, right?
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Paul: "Brother is weighing in" is quite rich! Meaning WOW, really?! You've been bent over backwards by caring for your father and the audacity of it is appalling. Don't cave - but you already knew that. Prayers...
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Paul - I'd love to be a fly on the wall when you told your dad you would arrange for him to go to a home. I bet the look on his face was priceless. Haha.

He thought he could use that line to manipulate you and get you back under his control. Just wait. The next thing he'll use is the "I'm gonna kill myself" line. Just wait for it. Think of a good come back line when he does use it on you.

Good to see you back, Paul.
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Hi Paul, it’s nice to hear from you. You do seem a bit stronger about the ‘guilts’, but remember that emigration is always an option!
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Paul,

My mom no longer lives in my home because I could no longer do everything she desired or needed for that matter. I did it for over 14 years. It finally broke me into a million pieces. I suffer with depression still even though my caregiving days are over.

I support you 100 percent for your views on your dad and your wife. Especially with your wife. My FIL was not good to me. The relationship was fine for a long time. After my MIL died, that all changed and he was awful to me.

I told my husband that I understood if he wanted a relationship with his dad but he doesn’t want it. It bothered him terribly that his father mistreated me.

It cost him. He no longer has my husband or me. My FIL is living in an assisted living facility. My husband understands that I am not interested in a relationship with him. He threw away our children, like yesterday’s garbage, his grandchildren. That hurt them and us. He brought on his own consequences. My children never blamed us for his actions. They were upset at first about being rejected from him but have moved past it and are well adjusted young women.

As a wife, I want to thank you for understanding how your wife feels. You’re a good husband to respect her feelings. She is blessed to have a husband like you.
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Paul, what sort of care home? The terms here in the States are Independent Living, Assisted Living and Skilled Nursing Facility.

I'm hoping one of out UK folks here will chime in with what the assessment process looks like over there.

Glad to see you back.
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Hi all - It continues. Brother is weighing in now that "I dont do enough". Its a bit surreal to be honest because they both say my wife should be helping him too.

Got to be kidding me. Never happening in a million years.
Why should she after the way hes treated her? Even if he did need her help - he doesn't.

So now hes playing the "well I'll have to go into a home if no-one will help me" card. Excellent I said I'll arrange it. He didn't expect that.

But honestly, what would you all say the criteria for not being able to look after yourself is?

- Food. He can cook, he gets meals on wheels weekdays (declines weekends).
- Shopping. He doesn't need much because of the above. I've offered home delivery for when I can't go - he refuses this.
- Washing/Toilet - I already sorted a converted shower, stair lift - no problems there.
- Cleaning - I already sorted someone to clean the flat once a week.
- Getting around - He can walk fine in his flat. He can walk to shops 1/2 mile away. Hes got a mobility scooter- he cant be bothered.

Sorry but the only NEED I can see that Dad is thinking of needing someone to run around and do what he says.
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paul- just wondering how things are going for you. Hope all is well with you and your family.
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Same GP practice not same GP.
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"No mental issues as far as they can tell." Is this the same GP who refused to go see him when called (because of the crying wolf??)

No response, aka the gray rock. Maybe he just enjoys seeing you riled up. The more he asks anything, the longer between contacts. He brings up topics, such as your wife, disconnect/walk away. It is difficult not to defend someone you care for when they are being disparaged, but it is a battle you will never win. Ignore as best you can, chalk it up to his normal behavior and move on. You know he is never going to change, only you can change your response to any of it. Clearly even ignoring it doesn't change it, so less contact, and just let his blah blah blah go on, knowing full well it is all BS.
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Based on what testing?

My mom scored 15/15 on a mini mental until just a few months before her death. She had vascular dementia and had zero reasoning ability, no sequencing skills and no ability to perform ADLs. Her memory was pretty much intact. It takes a neurocognitive evaluation to uncover the subtleties of loss of reasonin and cause and effect abilities.

A GP is not qualified to say he doesn't have a personality disorder.

Anyway, if his GP says he's fine, then you shouldn't have to do anything for him, should you? People who are fine can figure out how to get what they need on their own.

Cut off contact with him then. If he's really "desperate" for food, he'll eventually have to spend money to get someone to bring it.

HE isnt going to change, Paul. Stop expecting that to happen.
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Barb - Well I spoke to his GP again recently. No dementia 100% they are saying.... No mental issues as far as they can tell.
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PPaul, dementia and/or mental illness are exhausting to live with (or near). My best advice would be to attempt to redirect the conversation. Offer ice cream. Or tea.

If that doesn't work, say "dad, I'll be back when you're feeling better". Attach no emotion. Just grey rock. And leave.
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Barb - I've tried that. He says something I just say "yes ok". He mentions it again, again and again. Then he'll say "so why won't she phone me?" "why?" "why?" "I want to know".

A few days later same again. "Im not happy she still hasnt phoned me"
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Paul, I understand your desire to support your wife. And if your dad wasn't crazy, then, yes, you would be justified in doing that.

Try instead, not responding, not engaging.
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Yeh I need to let it go. Normally he says these stupid things and I just say "yes ok".

Hes brought this up three times now. Its getting to the point where I'm going to have to get nasty with him and tell him whats what.

I'd rather not list the things hes done and reasons why my wife doesnt want to bother but I feel hes forcing me down that route.

Same with the comments thing. I've asked him nicely as I can to please not comment on issues that do not affect him and are, not really something he needs to be involved in (i.e. my choice of holiday). BUT HE STILL DOES IT ALL THE TIME.

Im going to have to say "MIND YOUR OWN BUSINESS" which, I know, is going to upset him.

Oh and he actually said "Its ok its not your fault its her!" Are you kidding me? We've been married 23 years - I am not going to stand by and let him criticise my wife like this.
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my prayers are with you.
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Hes a 4 yr old in an elderly body. Everyone is supposed to think of him only.
Id tell him straight up. NOOOOO.
And when he says you are greedy for going on vacation. Say yes I am. And I'm turning my phone off too.
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Paul, I would call this disordered thinking. It's a mental health issue and probably some cognitive decline thrown in for good measure.

You can't reason with it. You can ignore it or laugh at it. But don't engage. Are you familiar with "Grey Rock" technique?
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