It's been a hard week....

Paul: Sending well wishes your way today.

I wouldn't call that "putting the phone down" Paul. I'd call that, bringing the conversation to a natural end, that's all.

Isn't it funny how guilt pops out and gurns at you? You sound as if you feel like you hung up on your father, as though you screamed at him and smashed the phone down, and are now going around with a lead weight in your stomach over it. But you didn't! You brought a tedious and fruitless conversation to a perfectly courteous conclusion. What's wrong with that?

Put the phone down on him last night....

After last weekend where he apologised for intruding, apologised for getting involved in my business.

Last night I had criticisms that I didn't have enough money to go on holiday - nice one.

Im doing a sponsored walk this weekend and have had a tummy bug. So then I get criticism for doing it, advice that I have to go to doctors, then he wants me to phone saturday am to confirm I'm NOT doing the walk otherwise "He'll be worried about me!".

"NO. I will speak to you on sunday. Bye"

jasmina - yes that sounds like a plan. Reason he wont do the POA is because he says "no need for that - all I need is to be able to ask a few things and you to help me, thats all".

And it costs £200. So no chance even if I paid for it.

margaret - no doubt in the past I've allowed him to be like this.

CM - yes it was a final payment to extraenergy. Yes I would agree it is a bit much and I do plan to chase this.

Trouble is they've gone bust and I understand the administrators have retained a few staff to get final payments is. Chances are they wont give a toss.

Paul, so was this a demand for a balancing payment from Extra, or from Scottish Power?

The terminating supplier is supposed to provide final statements within 8-10 weeks. When we've all wiped our eyes and stopped splitting our sides over that... it still remains true that for them to take seven months, and then chase up the payment after two weeks, is chutzpah of the first water.

I should give 'em what for.

Dear Paul, your recent post says “Brother is a complete idiot. It’s him that’s enabling Dad and allowing him to be the way he is, to be honest.” Brother may be a complete idiot BUT are you sure that it's not YOU that has for a long time been ‘enabling Dad and allowing him to be the way he is’. Or both you and brother.

You have an out when dad wants you to jump. You can say -No need, its not a problem. No POA means I dont have to be worried about your care. Your handling everything! Dont need my help.

Cant have it both ways. An almost invalid one day (when he needs to to jump), and very independant the next day.
Tell him to hire someone. When he needs groceries, errands run etc.
He sounds like he is quite oriented and doesnt have dementia. He's too busy ordering you around. Or getting brother to do same. Id back off the care since he seems he is so afraid of getting a POA etc.

Paul: Sending you well wishes today.
Llamalover47

Hi, Paul,

I'm new here and don't know your full story, but I just learned about this document: https://www.fhca.org/members/qi/clinadmin/global.pdf It is entitled "The Global Deterioration Scale for Assessment of Primary Degenerative Dementia" - it's a professional paper that I found very useful. Not sure if this helps in any way! Good luck to you!!

There is nothing to stop you making an appointment to go and see your father's GP, with him or without him. If you make the appointment, go beforehand to your father's house, say "come on, we're going now" and take him, the chances are he will comply. But even if he doesn't, you can still spend a useful ten minutes face to face with the GP laying out the issues.

You can also download the health and welfare LPA forms from the .gov website and make a start. Even if your father won't complete the process, the forms are so well thought-through and laid out that they help to concentrate the mind on the right questions; and that again you don't need anyone's permission for.

CM - problem is I've spoken to Dads GP a few times and had no joy.

I've asked Dad if we can go to GP together and discuss and hes point blank refused to allow this because "I'm being silly - theres no need"

I've asked him to let me set up a POA and hes refused this also "No need for all that messing around".

I've discussed all this with his GP again and they've repeated that they feel there is no medical need for further investigations for Dementia. Also, in their opinion, Dad has mental capacity to make his own decisions which they are obliged to abide by.

Same with the Social. They won't do a thing. Lady I spoke to was very sympathetic and said she'd seen it so many times, old people making bad choices, but, at the end of the day they can't force anything.

p.s. Born 1968 so don't remember!

Paul, are you too young to remember the first half of the seventies?

Apart from setting fire to my bedroom (I was reading by candlelight and - long story.) all I really remember about the power cuts was a certain survivalist style excitement; but if you were trying to get to work or run a household they were a PAIN. It would make sense to me that your father feels about energy bills the way he might about running out of petrol - not taking any chances on that.

When you have your father's medical records in front of you and you have sat down in front of his GP and thoroughly discussed the care plan, then you can justly complain that they won't listen. But you haven't, have you.

Do it or don't do it, either is fine. But half doing it, you just end up with the worst of all worlds - all the circular arguments and hard feelings, and with nothing to show for it.

Barb - yeh I know what you're saying. Its getting anyone to take it seriously in the medical profession to be honest. I continue to try this one.

BUT in a way, hes always been like this. Dad, even in his 50s, could have won awards for being small minded, stubborn, and getting ideas is his head.

I always remember, he'd get a utility bill in the post, he'd put his coat on and be down the post office by 9am with a bundle of cash "just in case they cut him off for not paying". I'd explain time and time again, send a cheque. I'd point out the payment required date. No avail.

Paul; This sort of anxiety (stuff that they used to be able to sort, prioritize, say to themselves "this can wait until Monday") is EXACTLY what drove us up a tree with regards to my mom in her mid-80s.

Her regular doctor thought it was "nothing but old age". My brother thought it was a "pity party".

When we threw in the towel and told mom she HAD to move to a supportive living environment where there could be folks around to cope with these "emergencies", it took her new geriatrics doc exactly one visit to refer her to geriatric psychiatry. It took geriatric psych exactly two visits to refer mom for cognitive testing. Which showed she'd had a stroke and that all of this anxiety stemmed from cognitive impairments--mom now had the reasoning abilities of a six year old. How could she NOT panic.

But I've told you this story before.

CM - Extra Energy? Was it that one?

Well they swapped him over to Scottish Power in November, took until June to provide a final statement (I missed the email) then two weeks later sent a snotty letter. It is a but much.

BUT, as I've explained to Dad, and as you quite rightly say, a letter received on a Saturday can wait to be dealt with on the monday. They are not going to sent bailliffs in on the monday. Like you said, lights working. No emergency.

Also, I can't think of ANYTHING that could have happened, with brother there, that needed me to rush home to be honest and add any value.

Oh! Not the one The Times was saying yesterday it's a good thing they went bust because it shows the utilities market is working properly - ? "Not for their customers," I muttered to myself.

I went to Flipper in the end. And I still had to bare my teeth at the supplier over a delayed final statement.

I find the whole thing stressful enough, I actually can't quite blame your Dad for feeling a little bit tearful. But one trick worth trying - tell him to switch on the light. Is it working? Yes. Good. Relax.

CM - yes they emailed it to me over the weekend too.

He was with an energy company that went bust last year. All the accounts got moved over to scottish power so DD continued etc.

They've taken since then to sort out the final bills (well the administrators have). I did have email two weeks ago which I missed but no actual physical letter. Looks like 2nd time they sent a letter and email.

Did you see the letter itself, Paul? Who was it from?

If you're a keen listener to consumer whine-ins, you'll be aware that the utilities providers have had their knuckles rapped countless times about not frightening little old people. Two things you can do:

- get him onto the new company's vulnerable customers list. It's a phone call, takes seconds.

- depending on the wording of the letter and how satisfied you are with it, make a complaint. It should, for example, have a big block capital heading on it somewhere saying "WHAT TO DO NOW" and another saying "IF YOU NEED HELP." If those aren't there, growl at them.

Got to the bottom of it a bit.

Dad had a letter of Saturday telling him his payment was overdue and they MIGHT ultimately take him to court etc. Of course, hes panicked. Brothers wife was visiting anyway, so of course Dad is kicking off now. Shes thick as two short planks and couldn't get anywhere with them. Brother, who was in work, then decided my input was needed....

All it was was confusion switching from one company to another. Sorted in 30 mins by me yesterday. Dad still does not understand why it wasn't an emergency. Ive explained that yes it was a bit OTT but you don't get letters on a saturday then have the bailiffs kicking down your door on the monday.

Once again hes apologised (this is wearing a bit thin now). I've told him because of his and brothers actions hes now had his lot with my wife - quite rightly. Also, brother is now blocked so because hes abused this, he will no longer be able to ask brother to contact me.

He tried the old getting upset routine (seen this so many times) until I pointed out to him this is about the 3rd/4th time this has happened now and its all been caused by him once again.... The tears stopped in seconds.

To be honest, he'll never learn. After all this, I've had "you'll have to visit sunday I've not got any food". Jeez.... I was going to visit anyway but honestly...

Polar - definitely the 2nd lot.

Jasmina - definitely too. These "emergencies" always seem to happen when I'm away like I said. I know full well in a way its a test to ensure I'm putting him first.

DisgustedToo - Yes brother is a complete idiot. Its his thats enabling Dad and allowing him to be the way he is to be honest. Dad has always been like that - if someone does something hes in there like a shot.

Ha ha. I understand CM. We only live 50-60 miles away from each other I think. (albeit shes in England, Im in Wales - different countries).

And no we dont have non-alcoholic cider like that. (well we do but its like you have non-alcohol beer if you know what I mean). Still funny hard cider....

(I always heard that you lot over there thought the name British Gas is funny - in the UK we have electricity and gas generally. Not sure what you'd call it just not Gas I guess. Natural gas - to use in cookers, overs, heating systems etc.)

disgustedtoo - I don't think brother is dumb. I believe he is a chip off the old block. He and dad are both very selfish people.

Paul - humor me for a minute. Pretend you're in dad's and brother's head, what thoughts go through their minds when they decide to call you while you're in the middle of _____ (fill in the blank)

Do you think they think:
"Hmm. I wonder what Paul is doing. Is he busy? Is this a good time to talk?"
"I wonder if Paul has time to help with _____________."
"Paul is working so I should wait until later."

Do you think they even think about you? Or more like:

"I need _________. I'm going to call Paul and make him come."
"I don't really need food, but i will say I do so that he would have to come."
"I'll say I'm hurt, so that Paul will feel guilty and he'll come."
"I'll try to fall and get myself in the hospital, so that Paul will have to stop whatever he's doing and tend to me."

My guess is that they don't give a rat's ass about you, your work, your life, your children, your wife, your anything. It's all about what they can get from you and make you do.

You need to rethink your relationship with them.

Paul: How are you today? Sending cheery wishes your way. ☺☺☺☺☺☺☺☺☺☺☺☺☺☺

I don't like to say it, and am sure you think/know it - your brother is an idiot. As you said, what did he think you could do about this when miles away? Also, what needed to be done so urgently anyway? Dad can call you and ask for you to do things for him, can't HE call the electric company and work out payment himself? If not, if he is THAT reliant on other people to do simple stuff like that, then tell him he needs to move to a care facility. Whether he asked brother to call or not isn't the issue - clearly he was looking for someone else to sort it out. Care facility eliminates that issue.

paulfoel123 says "...he does have plenty to do...", but clearly not ENOUGH! He needs to fill up more of his time!

paulfoel123 says "I did block him. And hes still blocked and will remain so now." Hopefully wife has also blocked him. This should remain so until you can have a good long talk (if possible) with brother and explain that your dad is playing this game and is using/pitting you against one another. If he doesn't feel its true, then tell HIM to handle the situation instead of calling you AND that he'll remain blocked. He is a grown man and doesn't need to run to big brother to fix his or dad's "issues". Dad insists he needs food, bro can get it. Dad needs help sorting out a bill, bro can do it. Dad needs laundry or cleaning done, bro can do it. Dad wants to cry in his beer, bro can bring beer and cry with him. If he has to take over as whipping boy, he WILL be crying in his beer soon enough! He either works with you, or he goes it alone. DO cut dad off and let bro take on this role. Until you have walked a mile in someone else's shoes... 

paulfoel123 also says "She thinks I should tell him to cut out the behaviour or I'll cut him off completely." I'm leaning in your wife's direction... But with a slight twist - cut it out OR it is time for..... the... HOME.

Remember what Countrymouse said (Don't let the few minutes that the bollocks took up cloud over the entire weekend.) Only YOU can spoil your day, weekend, vacation, etc. Treat them like the spam calls we get so many of here, that interrupt us at the worst times: dismiss call, if message is left (thankfully not many do leave one), dial in to messages and delete, move on or back to what you were doing. Forget about the call/contact.

On another note... while I DO know what bollocks are, some expressions Countrymouse uses are foreign to me/us and I have to look them up (had to do this when watching YouTube episodes of Time Team, sometimes even to question the pronunciation of some words!)

Countrymouse - "get into a barney" Here that would mean getting into a purple dino costume! For you, a row/argument.

paulfoel123 says "Couldn't stop laughing why in the US they call it HARD cider..... 
In the UK, the alcoholic version is CIDER. Anything else is just called APPLE JUICE...."

In the US there are actually 3 items: apple juice, cider and hard cider. They are ALL different. Apple juice is highly refined. Cider is mashed and strained (this can be "made"/purchased at a farm stand, while you wait, during apple picking season.) Hard cider is what it is.

From https://www.tastingtable.com/drinks/national/apple-cider-difference-vs-apple-juice
"Apple cider is made from apples that are washed, cut and ground into an "apple mash" similar to applesauce. The mash is then wrapped in cloth and pressed into fresh juice. ... On the other hand, apple juice undergoes filtration to remove pulp and is then pasteurized to extend the shelf life."

Also from that site:
"Apple juice can sit unopened in your cabinet for months, but apple cider is perishable and should be refrigerated. Unpasteurized cider can even start to ferment and turn into hard cider over time."

So, laughing aside, they ARE very different... Perhaps you only have apple juice and <ahem> cider, but we have the in-between, healthier version of apple "juice".

Paul (gently).

You are expecting your father to change.

He won't. The only thing you can do is change your reaction to him. Which as CM points out, is to not respond when you KNOW someone else is there.

You can only change your own stripes, not his.

Does your wife think that having a blowup with him will change anything?

It won't.

I think they wanted to have a fake emergency to interject themselves into your fun time. That way they know they ruined it somehow. As if your mind is not allowed to have freedom from them for a few hrs.
Block block block. That way you have downtime from them. Its obvious they cannot be trusted if you tell them your on vacation or going out for fun. They will continue to ruin your good time bc they can. I also think they are jealous your having fun. Dont let them ruin it!

Yay Kylie! Our little mini superstar!

I am going to put her on my iPhone and bop round the room. You may draw a veil over that image if you wish.

Don't let the few minutes that the bollocks took up cloud over the entire weekend.

CM - Well it pops up on your phone as a facebook message. I missed the first two because, as you say, I was doing something else which is why brother resorted to my mrs.

Turns out brother was in work on Saturday. His wife had gone to see Dad and at this point the "bill" was there so between them dumb and dumber decided I had to have some input. Why I'll never know.

I did block him. And hes still blocked and will remain so now.

Thing is my wife and I disagree on how to handle Dad. She thinks I should tell him to cut out the behaviour or I'll cut him off completely.

BUT, she mainly leaves me alone but wants nothing to do with him which is fine. Of course this time she got dragged into it....

The Cure were my highlight. Kylie for the wife...
Many queues. Unfortunately, I was a bit ill over the weekend. Wont give too many details but the toilet queues were not my friend. :-)

Jasmina- thing is he does have plenty to do. He sees friends, he goes out to play bowls, he watches hours of sport on TV.

Online no never. He doesnt "get" the internet anyway!

I remember last time I was in Florida and seeing "HARD" cider. Couldn't stop laughing why in the US they call it HARD cider.....

In the UK, the alcoholic version is CIDER. Anything else is just called APPLE JUICE....