85-year-old Mom in deep credit card debt. What can I do about the charging and debt?

When parents do not have to pay their way, rent, utilities, insurance, property tax etc, they may feel entitled to spend their entire pension in other ways. Then they aer shocked when they face the reality check, if they do have to pay their way.

What to do? Tell her you have reviewed your budget and can no longer afford to rent the mobile home for free, nor pay her utilities. Find out the going rent in your area and tell her that moving forward she will have to pay that amount. Utilities too.

Do this prior to retiring, so you can create a bit of a cushion for your own use.

As far as the CC debt goes. CC are unsecured and the debt will die with her, if she has no assets.

How did you discover the debt? You say your mother will not let anyone know her financial situation, is why I ask.

She's living rent-free, pays for no utilities. Does she have a car? Is she online? What is she charging to these cards? Is she using them to make the minimum payments on others, or something crazy like that?

I just had a quick look, and there are alarming numbers of debt counselling services in Kansas. Many of the providers will be loan companies and quite honestly you might just as well jump straight out of the frying pan and into the fire. But some of them do appear to be reputable agencies providing genuine assistance and advice. All I can suggest is having a look at them for yourself and cautiously giving one or two a call. Do not share any personal information until you are completely satisfied that they are not just out to sell your mother a high interest loan. I would expect the real knights out there to be able to advise you, as well, on what to do about approaching lenders to remind them of their corporate responsibilities.

Strictly speaking, you know, you already ought not to be paying your mother's utilities; but her overall wellbeing is a big subject. Have you been in touch with anyone about her? What about your local elder services/Area Agency on Aging?

So glad after my Dad died Mom got rid of her credit cards. If she didn't have the money she didn't buy it. It carried thru into her Dementia.

Not sure how you are going to get Mom help if she won't admit the debt.
You need to tell her what you said here. That you no longer will be able to pay her bills. So you both need to sit down and discuss her finances. There is Senior housing where Moms rent is based on her income. There are resources she can take advantage of.

I would suggest getting a credit advisor. Office of Aging may have someone free of charge. Moms cards should be frozen. She maybe able to get a consolidation loan, That way she has one payment a month. But she does not charge anymore. Paying the minimum on a large amount of money doesn't touch the principle. She can't get out of debt if she keeps spending. She may have to file for bankruptcy.

I have even heard people say they are spending everything and if they go into debt the children can pay it after they die with the money they get from selling the house. Crappy attitude.

My mom and dad always paid debts as they occurred. If they didn’t have money they didn’t buy an item. They set a good example, in spite of that some of my bothers would recklessly spend and one of them went bankrupt. He never saved for a rainy day like my parents.

I feel blessed that mom is frugal with her money. She has a credit card but hardly ever uses it and pays in full when bill arrives. Some people are shopaholics.

I went through the same thing with my mother. She was racking up debt and not telling anybody especially me. When it all came out I was shock and appalled, although I had a feeling of what she was doing; I just didn't think it was as bad as it was.

I post here about it and I got the answer "that people can make poor decisions all they want." It is so true!

So, like your mom my mother would get angry if I tried to address the problem with her finances. I had to let it go. You are not going to like my answer and believe me I didn't like it either, but there was nothing I could do. My mother could make all the bad decisions she wanted too, and she did not want my help. Ugh!

I let her continue to do what she was doing because I knew it would come crashing down on her and it did. Now, she is in thousands of dollars in debt. So now I handle her finances and she had to quit paying on the CCs to be able to pay both truck payments, Rx, and house bills. She will be filing bankruptcy.

If I was you I would start getting mom's mail and start seeing where she is at with each bill. Start with telling her what you have said here, but I have a feeling she will just tell you--"I know! I have it under control. Stay out of my business." Your mom will eventually have to stop paying them because she will get to the point where she won't have any cash! This is where you will have to come in and tell her to quit paying her CCs. If your mom has no assets than the banks can't get anything out of her. And no they can't come after you as long as your name is not on any of the CCs accts.

It is like watching a train wreck and can't do anything about it! Sigh!

Good Luck!

Her SS income can't be touched by these types of creditors, so she won't lose her income to them. The next shoe drops when she has to use her income to support herself, which you expect her to do. Maybe help her find appropriate services and housing but don't bail her out. You eventually may qualify for assistance with your utility bills.

1. You can cut up the cards.
2. You can freeze the amount she can charge. I had to call them but I have 2 cards I use online and both are frozen at $600 maximum. I froze my main card at $5000 and even my Lowe's I was able to lower to $5000.

We don't have to allow the credit line to be increased.

It’s not your problem and the credit card companies that increase her credit will have no one to blame but themselves
dont worry about it

Sometimes you really are better off owning nothing. If she owns nothing, they can't take anything. It's all good. You are not responsible for her bills unless you co-signed. She may also be eligible for Medicaid, food stamps and other benefits. At the very least you can get her on Medicaid which will make nursing home placement easy if and when that need ever arises.

Chasvix,

If she's got consumer debt and no real estate to protect she can let the bills go instead of filing bankruptcy. Letting the bills go will ruin her credit but that will keep her from getting more cards which is the idea. With bankruptcy you can start getting credit cards again within six months or year of filing.

She (you) can also ask the companies for a settlement where they forgive part of the debt, often half. She'd have to quit making payments for awhile before they'll negotiate. Companies can write off the loss and they build plenty of profit into their rates. Search the internet for more about settlements.

I’ve been where you are now. After the shock comes the stress of what to do about it.

First, verify that none of her credit has been secured by any property or income. Credit cards are almost always unsecured. If she stops paying, her creditors cannot do anything but sue and, frankly, she could be gone by the time that happens.

Do NOT use any of your money to pay them.

Take me them away from her. If she won’t give them to you, report them as stolen and intercept the replacements. There are credit cards that are specifically for people with dementia. You can control her daily spending and block her from certain businesses or categories of businesses. Get her one of those and see if she can manage it. If she can’t. Put her on a cash allowance.

Then, take a careful look at all of her accounts and decide how much, if any, of each you want to pay. Keep in mind that the credit card companies had the ability to check her income, determine how much credit card debt she had, and limit her credit. They chose not to and that means they accepted the risk.

If she is only making minimum payments, the lion’s share of the balance is interest (probably high, usury rate interest). Personally, I’d estimate how much of the balance represents what she actually borrowed and that’s what I’d plan to pay.

If your mom has nothing to lose by having her credit tank, why keep her in poverty especially if she’s going to have to start paying her own way. Also, you should be charging her rent and utilities to establish that you’re supporting her.

if you pay the utilities, you can cut off the TV or the Internet - however she’s ordering. If she’s not paying her bills, in the sense of trying to pay them off, there’s no way she’s going to be interested in paying them if she hast to move into her own apartment and pay her own utilities. I can’t help but think there something else going on here, but that’s none of my business. Either you’re going to make her mad at you or you’re going to let this continue. I would opt for her being mad and do what’s right.

Unless she's named you as her POA, no there is nothing you can do. If she doesn't explain to her creditors that she's 85 years old, retired and living on a fixed income with no assets to her name, she'll keep making the same mistakes with her creditors until she has to look at the cold, hard truth. She can either stop paying her credit cards, settle the outstanding balance, or file for bankruptcy. Eventually the bottom will fall out from under her. Then she'll have no choice but to get herself out of the hole she's dug with her creditors. Your gonna have to tell her the truth: you can't keep covering her utilities because you can't afford it. Until she listens, she's screwed. I wish I had better news for you. :-(

If your mother does decide to listen, here's one person who can help her: Dave Ramsey.

Have her arrange to have utilities direct drafted from her acct. Make sure your name and number are not listed as next of kin on her credit cards or they will be calling YOU.

It is truly time for a gentle intervention-talking to her about care she is going to need and getting her to sign a Power of Attorney if at all possible. I would research credit counseling companies. I had to do this because my husband was charging and donating and cancelled his life insurance in order to have more to donate to his favorite charities. (Before His dementia he rarely donated at all). I had to call the folks at PCH to ask them not to allow him to buy the things on the flyers the sent weekly. He would spend hours going thru their mailings and other sweepstakes mailings and believed that he would only win by buying. I managed to "lose" his wallet and then his ATM card and deleted phone numbers and had to hide the phone books. I stopped our mail for awhile and the challenge continued but lessened. I did finally get all credit cards turned over to a counseling company who lowered all of our credit card interest rates. I was able to pay off a few and pay down others, but am now in bankruptcy because when he passed, my income was cut in half. Somehow you must help her get this whole thing under control-mad or not. Call her primary care Dr. And ask him/her to do an evaluation and express your concerns. I wish you luck

At 85 she isn't going to live long enough to begin to pay these CC's. The 'minimum payment' is a joke. Esp if she continues to charge.

I have a 'friend' (barely can call her that) who has defaulted on her home loan many times, has had CC's closed and judgements put against her for non payment and she just blithely goes about doing whatever she wants. Her inlaws bail her out re: the house payment, right before it goes to foreclosure, she goes crying to them and they make it up, then she starts 'ignoring' her house payment again. She gets in over her head with the utilities and such---and she goes to our Church which has a lot of discretionary funds and they pay her utilities, etc. She has verbal custody of 3 grandkids, and gets no money from their father. She told me once she was $2000 'in debt' every month. Not even embarrassed about it. She gets a very tiny pension from being in the AirForce, but it doesn't even cover groceries and clothes for the kids.

Drives me just insane. She uses people and cries poverty and gets help from kind people until we realize she's using us...then we slowly fade out. She owes ME $4000 and I will never see it.

Some people simply cannot handle money. I amazed at how little she cares about how MUCH others have done for her.

I'd not be above taking her wallet and shredding her CC's but as of last summer, she no longer has any. Still paying on the enormous debt from 3-4 of them, but they have been closed.

You cannot go forever in this state. Something will happen--if you are supporting mom by letting her live with you, then she probably feels entitled to shop online and spend all her money on junk. This calls for a 'Come to Jesus' with her and a confiscation of her cards. She could have ONE pre paid card and when that is spent, that's IT. We did this with our kids in college.

You may need to contact the CC companies and try to get a consolidation loan. Don't know--since you don't say that she has dementia, she's aware of her buying. What is she buying that you don't see it? Clothes? Or is she now just trying to get from month to month on paying minimums?

CC cards used to be so hard to qualify for. I think my dog could get one, now.

I see a lot of good suggestions about intercepting mail and changing credit cards etc but you are only able to do that if you have POA and she goes along with that, reluctantly or not unless of course she has such cognitive issues that a DPOA could be enforced. If she can't bring herself to be responsible on her own or by allowing you to take over her finances and there is no legal standing for you to do that against her will all you can do is tell her about your concerns and let her dig her own hole. It doesn't sound like her holdings or income are such that she won't end up on Medicaid at some point so I'm not sure you really have much to worry about unless of course your finances are tied in somehow, like you have accepted responsibility for some of her debt.

I would suggest however that you stop making it easier for her to do this, by paying her bills you are just giving her more funds to continue this cc purchasing spree and living beyond her means. I totally understand why you are providing her with a place to live, utilities included but I'm not sure it's helping her and I know it isn't helping you. You are effectively dipping into your retirement savings by not putting away whatever the amount is however small that may be. Is there a way to put the utilities at least in moms name or are they all combined on one meter/account? You could at least try to explain to mom that while you don't want what you would normally charge someone for rent in her place you need to collect something as you prepare for retirement and you have learned that being able to show she has been paying rent will help her as well in the long run with the medical/financial assistance she will need and not paying rent now might hurt her benefit qualifications in the future. So you need to do this to care for yourself but it's also something that should have been done all along to protect and take care of her. You aren't trying to take over her finances or control that way but you are funneling some of the money to more reasonable channels, you could even put it in an account to draw from later when she she does need financial assistance if you don't feel right using it to cover yourself. At some point the walls are going to come crashing in on her and not fighting with her now for control might help pave the way for her to accept your help when that happens.

It's so tough, wanting to help when the best way to help is let them flounder. Good luck

If your mother is of sound mind and in charge of her own affairs there is nothing you can do. You are not responsible for her debts, and they likely will never be collected on; however, there will be nothing left to help with her care when she most needs it. It may be time for a power of attorney situation, court appointed if your Mom is not capable of handling her affairs. If she IS capable, there is absolutely nothing you can do about how she spends her money. Be certain that your Mom's name is not on anything of yours at all, or it is as good as giving it to the bank. You should perhaps consider charging minimal rental to put away for the future for her.

Generally she won't be able to move to her own apartment without first/last month's rent and passing a credit check. She may not be able to do this. So a state-issued nursing home may be her only option. Maybe start trying to get utilities and so forth out of her to save up thus next egg. Once she is out, if you can't afford to have her back, get the NHs lined up as it sounds like she won't make her apartment payments long. She is bringing this on herself. Does she have diagnosed dementia?

Wow I can totally relate. When my mom was in a rehabilitation center after having part of her foot amputated and her big toe. She was really out of it, not quite enough to still say i need money. She didn’t need anything. I cried every time I opened a piece of mail. It was a 10 dollar payment here and there. She was on a budget plan with her propane but when you don’t pay that you are no longer on the plan. She loves using the excuse but I was sick. People still want their money. I really cleaned up scams especially the magazine one. Of course she had selective memory regarding things. I found a whole life insurance policy actually two for 5,000 each. However she owes 6,000 to each. When they sent the bill for the interest she threw it away. She knew nothing about it. She didn’t even have to pay anything for a premium. She took a loan out in June 1991. I am feeling guilty because that’s when I graduated college. I can’t change the past. I also set up real payment plans with creditors and even with her new bills. The collection agency was paid off and she had the money to pay her other medical bills. My husband and i do not carry any debt. We have the money we pay it. She had more than enough money to pay her bills and still have something for a rainy day. She said to me i have never seen anyone pay medical bills so fast. I said i paid then after i checked them and you had the money. Plus it keeps her from gambling ir buying on tv. As many of you know she is now in a place where she can do some upkeep on the farm. She is actually being very careful with her spending but I am not going to say she can’t have something. My parents have done without for a very long time. I don’t know what came first poor financial issues. However, my daddy’s company closed down my freshman year of college. They took everything no pension nothing. He started working there at 16. So I think it my fault but I paid my own way through it. I don’t know if I shared this but I was looking for something and I came upon pages and pages of settlements with credit card from my mom. Honestly, I don’t know what is true or not true. I don’t know what my brother believes and I just can’t take it on. I have helped my mother get everything in order however she now has her farm account at a different bank and her money and whatever she needs it for. Honestly isn’t it really just her money. I do know that she isn’t buying lottery tickets because she just gets her rx and a few groceries. But she could be buying then but the clerk said she buys one. It’s an addiction just like i am an alcoholic and anorexia. I know i am not going to change her after 81 years. I just wished she hadn’t lied to me and I was a fool in my brother eyes. I know it probably hurt. I need to just say I thought i was in a place of acceptance and love regarding my brother not speaking to me as of April 24 2019. Even after everything that has happened and the pain he has caused my mother and my husband and I. All the time my husband and I no longer have together. It really hurts. Knowing me he could pull in the yard and ask for a hug and i would let it go. But that’s what I have done over and over again and I would always feel rejected. I know it was really not rejection it was he had to work things out with his family. I have been really positive about everything but after the meeting this morning people were talking about the day they lost someone. Really ironic that my friend said that only i remember dates. I really wish she was there today. I am just feeling really alone and I know i have you and you help me all the time. But that friend who has different rules for me every time. I can’t bring anything up because I was supposed to let it go and I did but it’s not perfect. My husband doesn’t want me to get hurt again so he says haven’t we beat this horse to death. With my mom it’s all about her. So I cry alone more than people really know. I apologize for going off on my moms credit card issues

At this rate, she won't be able to afford to move into an apartment. You should not enable her financially.

Cut up/ cancel her cards, it may not be easy for you two to do this but this debt is a monkey on both of your backs. Go to a FISC/Credit counseling service and get some needed help on this matter. This is a free service and there should be one in your area. I made the same mistake when I was younger and my credit was ruined for a very long time (It even made it very hard for me to find a apartment for a while). You may want to take over your mother's financial matters as a payee to make sure her daily needs are paid for and covered. (You may want to get appointed as POA first) If not, find someone that can act as a payee, Check with your county aging and disability department. If she doesn't have CC's, then she will start spending her necessities money on things that she doesn't need. She needs to admit that she has a problem and you need to tell her that you can't financially afford to help her anymore. It sounds harsh, but both of you can't afford to live the high life anymore and sooner or later, you gonna have to be frugal yourself. I had to learn to be frugal after my adventures with CC's, it was a bear to deal with, but in the end, after living for so long frugally, it's no big deal and it's kinda fun at times.

You might need to consult with an attorney (Elder Care), however this might not help. At the very least, see if you can draw up all your questions beforehand to take advantage of a free consult - usually 30-60 minutes, depending on the office. HOWEVER,
....if mom is of sound mind, there isn't a lot you can do. With all her debt, and likely crappy credit score as a result (plus needing first/last and security deposit for more rentals), she isn't likely going to be able to find/rent a place.

On top of all that, even if you tell her you cannot afford to cover her anymore, you can't force her out or throw her out. Unless/until she becomes incompetent, I think you are stuck with the situation as it is. Even with dementia you can't force her out (per our attorney when we wanted to move mom from her condo to MC and she was resistant.)

One thing several mentioned that you could do, and I concur, is to cut off the internet/TV service (possibly phone too). YOU are paying for it, so YOU can shut it off. This will stop her ability to see/buy online AND save you some money.

Any other unnecessary utilities, shut them down! Again, with lousy credit score and limited income, she isn't likely going to find a company willing to set up an internet/TV account for her.

The BEST thing you can do is to ensure that NOTHING in her name has yours associated with it and NOTHING in your name has her name on it. If she defaults, debt collection will likely identify you as an "associate" and may trying getting money from you - NEVER pay them anything. Get their name/address and provide them with a legal cease and desist notice. It isn't your debt and you have no obligation to give them a dime! IF you do, they will hound you until hell freezes over!! NOT ONE THIN DIME TO ANY OF THEM!

This one needs a doctor's help and an attorney. They will help you get a Power of Attorney and as soon as you have it, you must contact the creditors and close the accounts. She cannot, under any circumstances be allowed to continue doing this. And why are you allowing her to keep secret her affairs. This is just simply wrong. You will be the one having to take care of things if she gets worse or dies. You have every right to know. You should not, under any circumstances, deprive yourself to help her when she does not deserve your help. Your job is to care of you. If she were cooperating with you, I'd feel differently. I would sit her down and tell her the "new rules" and she either cooperates or you walk away or place her somewhere. Do not let this woman do this to you.

You have received a lot of good and caring advice here.

But, it must still be overwhelming.

Do you own this mobile home and the land on which it it located, on your own -- it's okay if you owe money on that, but is it all titled just in your name, with maybe a lien holder/mortgage lender?

If so, please stop with the free guesthouse arrangement, because that's what it is.

You know how much your mother gets in social security, right? And, how much the utilities cost, on average, every month, right?

So, don't say or write anything about having let her live there for free. Not to anyone. Lots of legal ramifications if you do that.

Make it simple. Send her a short letter that says, basically, enclosed is a lease that you should read, and have any lawyer of your choice read, and you have 30 days to sign it and either (1) deliver a bank/cashier's check for rent for _____ through _____, and a security deposit in the amount of $______, or (2) leave the "property." And, the lease should be crystal clear: she, as a tenant, is responsible for $_____ monthly rent, due by a fixed date every month, with a 3-day grace period, and she is responsible for all utilities bills, and all telephone and cable and WiFi. You, as the landlord, have no legal obligation to pay for utilities, cable, telephone, etc. The lease should have a section that makes it easy for you to check the boxes the way you want. And, if done right, you will have no financial obligations other than what is required under your state's landlord/tenant law and cannot be changed through a lease.

Someone else posted here that you cannot legally disconnect the phone. I am not sure that is true. I believe that your mother, as a renter (or to-be renter) has to get a phone in her name and be responsible for the bills. And, as far as repairing or replacing necessary appliances and plumbing, etc, if your mother agrees to this lease, just get yourself an appliance service contract, won't cost more than $400 a year. Well worth it.

And, this lease, that I am suggesting, should not be for more than 6 months. Not a year, just 6 months. If it is for a year, would have to be in writing (statute of frauds), but do it in writing anyway, please, even though it is for 6 months. That gives you a 30-day "leave the property" option. Don't play around with her. And NO option for renewal in this 6-month lease.

I do think that we do not know the whole story here, but that's okay. I am trying to protect you.

Lots of things you can do about her credit cards, but you have to be willing to be accused of crossing a line. Unless you have the legal rights through a POA.

Sounds like all of her debt is unsecured. Have her file a Chapter 7 bankruptcy. They may or may not want some items back, rarely. This way her debt is wiped out, no more cards and she will have to enjoy what she has.

My brother took mom’s cards, cut them up & I wrote them letters explaining situation. They closed her acts. They turned mom over to debt collectors. All she has is SS too & I make $20 payments every month otherwise they’d just take from account. Once she’s in a long term care facility they’re out of luck! There won’t be any money to pay them, it goes for her care.

Keep in mind that her debts are not your debts. I hope that none of these accounts are joint. I agree that you could start charging her rent and her portion of utilities. I wonder if she will agree to that. This should be a warning to anyone out there who lets someone live on or in their property rent free. It is very difficult to take that decision back. Do not do it.

I remember last year when everything happened with my mom and her bills had to be paid. She was on pain medication and had a uti plus the infection from the amputation. I cried every time I opened the mail. She was paying bills a little here $10 on a 3,000 dollar bill. She was on a budget for plan for her propane but she was late on it. Then there was this guy calling from a collection agency regarding a credit card from the 90’s I was ready to lose it. This guy was going to write off $3,000 in interest for her. But since it was so long ago the company has merged so many times i was told not to pay it. She would get statements once year for her to pay the interest on two loans that were taken off her life insurance policies. She didn’t remember taking loans. She took a loan in 1991 for 1200 thank goodness it’s a whole life because on a 5,000 policy she owes 6,000. She has denied it until last month. She couldn’t lie anymore. I also found page after page of credit cards that she owed in the 90 s . I don’t know if she put a lien on the farm or what. My brother has one story she denies it. She said she paid off my grandma farm and all of my grandpa medical bills. He was only 50 and he didn’t have much coverage. I am sure after one open heart surgery that could wipe out anyone, then my brother thinks she paid for my college. Put it this way I was being turned over to collections for bills I didn’t know i had when I was in college. She didn’t pay my dental work. Thank god I got scholarship and grants. She offered to pay this little loan $90 every three months. She defaults on that. I would have lost my wedding dress if i hadn’t called. She wasn’t making payments like she said she would. I should be the one angry at her. But she is my mother and I have forgiven her a long time ago and a lot of treatment. Sorry getting off topic this is about you but I just wanted you to know you are not alone. I don’t know if it’s a generation thing but parents financial situations seem to be secret. Please get a poa soon. You have great advice from the other responses. Hang in there.