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My mom and I have talked about this extensively, as she is already a survivor of non-Hodgkins lymphoma. We caught it very early (altho' if I had relied on what the doc said we would NOT have done a biopsy and would not have caught it so early) and she is clear that she would not want to go thru' chemo and radiation at her current age (88) if diagnosed with cancer again. She did well with the chemo (as these things go) but the radiation was very hard on her. Her teeth have still not recovered; she lost another upper just last week. I know what she wants if she has another cancer diagnosis -- palliative care and hospice as necessary. Trying to live forever is rarely the answer, although our Western culture is so death-defiant that we seem to try to do so.
Paulcar, I could not agree more with your comment on page 1 (haven’t read rest of answers because I felt yours says it all!).
Many people don’t seem to be able to understand that for anyone really, no matter their age, living knowing that they have cancer versus living not knowing it is like living in two different worlds. Of coure if one is younger one has the right to know to then decide...and yet then if it is found at an stage where it is simply not curable..I would still understand the choice to not tell.
At 90? I would not even hesitate! The Calvary a person lives with the treatments you’ve to endure is not comparable to the “benefit” of a couple of more years to live...specially because the QUALITY of life after cancer treatments can be terrible, more so at that age.
Life ends for all at some point. At 90 I think God has allowed that person to live a long and hopefully good life. Time to be grateful for that life, and also to be grateful for the opportunity to know we can say goodbye the way we want to and surround our loved one with exactly that, love! It is actually a great gift, if we look at life through a realistic prism.
my feelings would be to just let your dad live out his life without telling him. telling him could trigger a negative effect and harm his health even more. at that age there is really nothing that can be done for him. he is to old for treatments and surgery is out of the question. for him to be put to sleep for a procedure its a risk to say the least. my dad was 90 when they told me he had cancer. I thought long and hard about telling him. dad had other health issues that would take his life before cancer so why upset him more. dad lived to be 93. he passed a few months ago... the time that dad did have left he enjoyed without any worry of cancer....he was happy to the end. I miss him so much...
A lot of these answers to the question above are very heartless, coming from people who apparently are very pessimistic about life in general and do not respect their elders. Thats why you people lose a lot of your elderly parents early in this country because you do not give peanuts about them.
Listen to this, someone I know was recently ( January 2018 ) diagnosed with a tumor in the sigmoid colon of the large intestine. This came from a colonoscopy on a biopsy. The person had been suffering from strong stomach pains, bloody stools, diarrhea and constipation for the past few months. The person was diagnosed further in November 2017 with diverticulosis and diverticulitis, a bacterial infection close to or in the same sigmoid colon area where the tumor was blocking the lumen of the intestine for a while. A CT Scan of the abdomen from November 2017 showed an enlarged lymph node in the area which the doctors comment was due to the bacterial infection of the diverticulitis. The biopsy of her tumor in January 2018 showed malignant cells, This tumor was a cancer. The patient was healthy otherwise. She was not suffering from anything else in her body except for some mild diabetes and arthritis. CT Scans and MRIs were done of her body and nothing showed up. The patient was clear for surgery which was a success. Oh I almost forgot, everyone is so interested in people s age. This person was 86 years old !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And what is more the surgeon told us that he had done surgery on a couple of people several years back. One was 88 or so and the other around 90. Both of them are now over 100, so " compared to them this new patient was " young ", And whats more is that this new patient did not need a transfusion, no bag, no chemotherapy, no ratiotherapy. So it is a blessing. Respect your elderly parents who gave you life to come to this world. Show some appreciation for them by giving them care. Stop telling them to jump off the bridge literally. The hospital by the way is in the Northeast in New York.
“Very heartless”.. “people who apparently are very pessimistic about life in general” and “do not respect their elders”.. I kindly suggest you re-read all the answers. They are all full of love..and in many cases coming from experience. All caregiving paths are very tough and no one should be judged for literally wanting the best, understanding the best is a subjective term.
Although you’re entitled to having an opinion, on this website people should not insult, generalize or judge and you are doing all three. I don’t believe that helps or enlightens anybody.
I’m providing some well intended constructive criticism because I feel you might need to think twice next time you answer a question in those terms.
I agree with Rosses, Robert -- we come here for support and helpful advice, not to be insulted as you have done. Your comments were very hurtful. We are all trying our best to care for our loved ones. The lives of every one of us are incredibly difficult and we need only constructive feedback. We'd be very grateful if you would try to help us rather than insulting those of us who are trying so hard to care.
There's cancer, and then there's cancer. There is stage 0 and stage 4. There are cancers that can be cured with extensive surgery and no follow on radiation or chemo and there is cancer that has a 90 percent chance of killing you in a year no matter what you do.
There are 90 year olds who are running marathons and teaching graduate school. And there are 90 year olds with dementia who are abed, anxious and not eating or drinking.
"It depends" sounds facile and dismissive, but in this case, it's true. No one is trying to write an elder off, Robert, we're just seeking to understand what the OP's question REALLY is.
It sounds as though she is looking for symptomatic relief for her parent. An obstructed bowel is a horrific way to die, so I'm told. So I would opt for surgery in that situation, even if it might mean death in the midst of the operation.
Robert, I don’t know what country you are from, since you say “That’s why YOU PEOPLE lose a lot of YOUR elderly parents early in THIS COUNTRY.” I assume you think everyone here lives in the United States?? I do believe this site reaches other countries… But, to set the record straight, the United States has more centenarians than any other country. So, I think that is an indication that we do take care of our elderly.
Deciding whether or not to treat an elderly parent/loved one who was diagnosed with cancer is a hard decision for anyone. Feeling that people should treat cancer no matter what the age, just because we can, is too simplistic. It would certainly depend on whether or not there are underlying conditions that would result in complications, what the prognosis is -- with and without treatment, and if the wishes of the loved one is known. People do have the right to decide how they want to be treated, if they are competent. The doctors would certainly talk to the family and tell them what to expect, so that they can make an informed decision.
Yes, you have heard of successes. Great. It is also great that the person you know had very few medical issues, outside of the cancer. That is probably why she was treated. Not everyone is like that.
My brother, who is 71, has pulmonary fibrosis, and was recently diagnosed with leukemia. He is taking a chemotherapy drug that has a good success rate. The pulmonary fibrosis, though, will probably take him before his treatment is finished. But, for him, it is worth the effort.
My Mom is 94. Twenty years ago, she said that if she had cancer, she would not want to treat it, even at that age. I, personally, would not have liked that, but she knew what she wanted. She was a nurse; plus she saw her mother die of cancer at age 63.
Hey, I would love for my Mom to live forever. That is just not realistic, and probably selfish on my part. She was always active, even doing yard work when she was 92. She has had a heart attack and a stroke. Now, she has expressive aphasia, where 99% of what she says in nonsensical. She can no longer write her name. She can no longer do what she liked to do – even clean her house and make her own meals. She needs assistance walking, and with all personal care.
So, what do you think we should do if she happens to be diagnosed with cancer? Do we honor her wishes, or do we treat it? Do you think her quality of life would improve if she went through surgery or chemotherapy? Do you think she would even survive the treatments with her underlying medical issues? Is it worth the risk?
My Dad is 89 and was recently diagnosed with cancer. Since he is in relatively good health he and his doctor decided to proceed with radiation treatments. He had his 10th out of 44 treatments today and is handling it well.
From my point of view, there is cancer at 90 and then there is cancer at 90 with dementia, lack of understanding of what is happening and the desire (on the part of the elder) to just be comfortable.
This was the case with my mom at 89; she had been dxed with MCI and, because of fluid build up around her lungs, had fluid drawn off. Some "atypical" cells were appreciated. The oncologist wanted to do a bone marrow biopsy.
A. Mom said "no bone marrow biopsy" B. She wouldn't have done whatever treatment was going to be recommended. She was DONE with being "treated".
A wise geriatrician told me at the time: "if the patient is going to refuse the treatment, then DON'T do the test".
I am 81 and if I get cancer, I will want only palliative care. This is what my mother (liver cancer) and my cousin (colon cancer) chose. They got morphine and palliative care, and lived only a few months (or weeks in my mother's case) after diagnosis. Dementia runs in my family, and I fully believe it is better to die after a brief illness than to live for years with dementia. I was a cancer researcher for most of my career (but worked in the lab and peer review, not with patients).
At 80, I told my DH he didn't have to do the Chemo but he said he did. He lived another 16 years.
We had a scare a few years back and again he felt he should but I wouldn't have put him through that.
Talk it over with your father - Chemo is very hard on the body, and it is not guaranteed. I would refuse treatment at that age - in fact, I'm only 66 and I'm not sure I would do it now either. As I said, it's very hard on the body and not guaranteed. The body is bombarded with heavy metals that never leave the system.
It is a good time to make sure everything is in order for the inevitable.
The side effects of chemotherapy, radiotherapy and anything else applied as part of the treatment for cancer seem to live with the person FOREVER, specially if it’s an older person. I can say this based on experience, seeing my mother suffer everyday, with everything in her body almost destroyed; from something so “small” as her teeth and nails to her lungs damaged by the radiotherapy, her stomach, heart...etc..etc...too many etc’s for a human beings to have any quality of life. For a younger person I fully support and understand the decision to do all possible to save their life for them and their family, but in the case of an older person I would fully support the desire to not apply any treatment, for them and for their family.
Maybe I am wrong but I feel cwillie's reply was uncalled for and heartless. I thought this site was to help each other as much as possible. To give support when someone needs it. To listen and support anyone who writes. it should not matter how many times the question was answered or when. We are here to give support to each other...
At 90 I think its time to let god take over. To put someone thru such stressful treatments may take a negative toll on their body. As my dad said to me at 90 and we got some horrible health news for him, lizzy please let me die at home with my dignity.....I did..
Lizzy, the OP is long gone, they haven't posted anything except this one question back in June - in any case I wasn't addressing them but trying to point out that this is an old question that has already been well answered.
this is one of the reasons that I think it would be a good idea to close older posts where the original poster has not been active. The older posts can still be read but anyone with a similar question should post their own question.
My father is 94 and fortunately is in excellent health. At his point in his life all he wants to do is enjoy whatever time he has left without any poking and prodding from Drs. and I agree with him 100%. There is absolutely no way I would even consider chemo and or radiation on a LO at that age. They have lived a long life and to put them through, heaven knows what kind of treatment plan, just doesn't seem right to me. My father has had an aneurism in his leg for quite a few years and to interfere by doing surgery could possibly cost him his life so we've decided to leave well enough alone and let nature take its course.
By proceeding, I agree that I understand the following disclosures:
I. How We Work in Washington.
Based on your preferences, we provide you with information about one or more of our contracted senior living providers ("Participating Communities") and provide your Senior Living Care Information to Participating Communities. The Participating Communities may contact you directly regarding their services.
APFM does not endorse or recommend any provider. It is your sole responsibility to select the appropriate care for yourself or your loved one. We work with both you and the Participating Communities in your search. We do not permit our Advisors to have an ownership interest in Participating Communities.
II. How We Are Paid.
We do not charge you any fee – we are paid by the Participating Communities. Some Participating Communities pay us a percentage of the first month's standard rate for the rent and care services you select. We invoice these fees after the senior moves in.
III. When We Tour.
APFM tours certain Participating Communities in Washington (typically more in metropolitan areas than in rural areas.) During the 12 month period prior to December 31, 2017, we toured 86.2% of Participating Communities with capacity for 20 or more residents.
IV. No Obligation or Commitment.
You have no obligation to use or to continue to use our services. Because you pay no fee to us, you will never need to ask for a refund.
V. Complaints.
Please contact our Family Feedback Line at (866) 584-7340 or ConsumerFeedback@aplaceformom.com to report any complaint. Consumers have many avenues to address a dispute with any referral service company, including the right to file a complaint with the Attorney General's office at: Consumer Protection Division, 800 5th Avenue, Ste. 2000, Seattle, 98104 or 800-551-4636.
VI. No Waiver of Your Rights.
APFM does not (and may not) require or even ask consumers seeking senior housing or care services in Washington State to sign waivers of liability for losses of personal property or injury or to sign waivers of any rights established under law.
I agree that:
A.
I authorize A Place For Mom ("APFM") to collect certain personal and contact detail information, as well as relevant health care information about me or from me about the senior family member or relative I am assisting ("Senior Living Care Information").
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APFM may provide information to me electronically. My electronic signature on agreements and documents has the same effect as if I signed them in ink.
C.
APFM may send all communications to me electronically via e-mail or by access to an APFM web site.
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If I want a paper copy, I can print a copy of the Disclosures or download the Disclosures for my records.
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This E-Sign Acknowledgement and Authorization applies to these Disclosures and all future Disclosures related to APFM's services, unless I revoke my authorization. You may revoke this authorization in writing at any time (except where we have already disclosed information before receiving your revocation.) This authorization will expire after one year.
F.
You consent to APFM's reaching out to you using a phone system than can auto-dial numbers (we miss rotary phones, too!), but this consent is not required to use our service.
Many people don’t seem to be able to understand that for anyone really, no matter their age, living knowing that they have cancer versus living not knowing it is like living in two different worlds. Of coure if one is younger one has the right to know to then decide...and yet then if it is found at an stage where it is simply not curable..I would still understand the choice to not tell.
At 90? I would not even hesitate! The Calvary a person lives with the treatments you’ve to endure is not comparable to the “benefit” of a couple of more years to live...specially because the QUALITY of life after cancer treatments can be terrible, more so at that age.
Life ends for all at some point. At 90 I think God has allowed that person to live a long and hopefully good life. Time to be grateful for that life, and also to be grateful for the opportunity to know we can say goodbye the way we want to and surround our loved one with exactly that, love! It is actually a great gift, if we look at life through a realistic prism.
my dad was 90 when they told me he had cancer. I thought long and hard about telling him. dad had other health issues that would take his life before cancer so why upset him more. dad lived to be 93. he passed a few months ago...
the time that dad did have left he enjoyed without any worry of cancer....he was happy to the end. I miss him so much...
Listen to this, someone I know was recently ( January 2018 ) diagnosed with a tumor in the sigmoid colon of the large intestine. This came from a colonoscopy on a biopsy. The person had been suffering from strong stomach pains, bloody stools, diarrhea and constipation for the past few months. The person was diagnosed further in November 2017 with diverticulosis and diverticulitis, a bacterial infection close to or in the same sigmoid colon area where the tumor was blocking the lumen of the intestine for a while. A CT Scan of the abdomen from November 2017 showed an enlarged lymph node in the area which the doctors comment was due to the bacterial infection of the diverticulitis. The biopsy of her tumor in January 2018 showed malignant cells, This tumor was a cancer. The patient was healthy otherwise. She was not suffering from anything else in her body except for some mild diabetes and arthritis. CT Scans and MRIs were done of her body and nothing showed up. The patient was clear for surgery which was a success. Oh I almost forgot, everyone is so interested in people s age. This person was 86 years old !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And what is more the surgeon told us that he had done surgery on a couple of people several years back. One was 88 or so and the other around 90. Both of them are now over 100, so " compared to them this new patient was " young ", And whats more is that this new patient did not need a transfusion, no bag, no chemotherapy, no ratiotherapy. So it is a blessing. Respect your elderly parents who gave you life to come to this world. Show some appreciation for them by giving them care. Stop telling them to jump off the bridge literally. The hospital by the way is in the Northeast in New York.
“Very heartless”.. “people who apparently are very pessimistic about life in general” and “do not respect their elders”..
I kindly suggest you re-read all the answers. They are all full of love..and in many cases coming from experience. All caregiving paths are very tough and no one should be judged for literally wanting the best, understanding the best is a subjective term.
Although you’re entitled to having an opinion, on this website people should not insult, generalize or judge and you are doing all three. I don’t believe that helps or enlightens anybody.
I’m providing some well intended constructive criticism because I feel you might need to think twice next time you answer a question in those terms.
There are 90 year olds who are running marathons and teaching graduate school. And there are 90 year olds with dementia who are abed, anxious and not eating or drinking.
"It depends" sounds facile and dismissive, but in this case, it's true. No one is trying to write an elder off, Robert, we're just seeking to understand what the OP's question REALLY is.
It sounds as though she is looking for symptomatic relief for her parent. An obstructed bowel is a horrific way to die, so I'm told. So I would opt for surgery in that situation, even if it might mean death in the midst of the operation.
We are here to support, not to condemn.
Deciding whether or not to treat an elderly parent/loved one who was diagnosed with cancer is a hard decision for anyone. Feeling that people should treat cancer no matter what the age, just because we can, is too simplistic. It would certainly depend on whether or not there are underlying conditions that would result in complications, what the prognosis is -- with and without treatment, and if the wishes of the loved one is known. People do have the right to decide how they want to be treated, if they are competent. The doctors would certainly talk to the family and tell them what to expect, so that they can make an informed decision.
Yes, you have heard of successes. Great. It is also great that the person you know had very few medical issues, outside of the cancer. That is probably why she was treated. Not everyone is like that.
My brother, who is 71, has pulmonary fibrosis, and was recently diagnosed with leukemia. He is taking a chemotherapy drug that has a good success rate. The pulmonary fibrosis, though, will probably take him before his treatment is finished. But, for him, it is worth the effort.
My Mom is 94. Twenty years ago, she said that if she had cancer, she would not want to treat it, even at that age. I, personally, would not have liked that, but she knew what she wanted. She was a nurse; plus she saw her mother die of cancer at age 63.
Hey, I would love for my Mom to live forever. That is just not realistic, and probably selfish on my part. She was always active, even doing yard work when she was 92. She has had a heart attack and a stroke. Now, she has expressive aphasia, where 99% of what she says in nonsensical. She can no longer write her name. She can no longer do what she liked to do – even clean her house and make her own meals. She needs assistance walking, and with all personal care.
So, what do you think we should do if she happens to be diagnosed with cancer? Do we honor her wishes, or do we treat it? Do you think her quality of life would improve if she went through surgery or chemotherapy? Do you think she would even survive the treatments with her underlying medical issues? Is it worth the risk?
This was the case with my mom at 89; she had been dxed with MCI and, because of fluid build up around her lungs, had fluid drawn off. Some "atypical" cells were appreciated. The oncologist wanted to do a bone marrow biopsy.
A. Mom said "no bone marrow biopsy"
B. She wouldn't have done whatever treatment was going to be recommended. She was DONE with being "treated".
A wise geriatrician told me at the time: "if the patient is going to refuse the treatment, then DON'T do the test".
Words to live by.
We had a scare a few years back and again he felt he should but I wouldn't have put him through that.
Talk it over with your father - Chemo is very hard on the body, and it is not guaranteed.
I would refuse treatment at that age - in fact, I'm only 66 and I'm not sure I would do it now either. As I said, it's very hard on the body and not guaranteed. The body is bombarded with heavy metals that never leave the system.
It is a good time to make sure everything is in order for the inevitable.
it should not matter how many times the question was answered or when. We are here to give support to each other...
At 90 I think its time to let god take over. To put someone thru such stressful treatments may take a negative toll on their body.
As my dad said to me at 90 and we got some horrible health news for him, lizzy please let me die at home with my dignity.....I did..