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My dad passed a few weeks ago. He had a medical procedure that went wrong and due to his already poor health it caused a chain reaction. Lots of surgeries were done and procedures to try and save him. He was a diabetic dialysis patient, the surgeon never told us it was possible he wouldn't heal. The hospital Dr stopped me in the hallway told me my dad would never heal and was very sick. She said don't blame us if something happens and she's telling me the reality. I tried to ask questions and she immediately went on her phone and was scrolling on fb. I was angry as this hadn't been mentioned before and she seemed to care less. She wanted me to decide to end his dialysis treatment and start hospice that day. I asked to speak to the surgeon again and we were going to give my dad time to heal. She continued harassing me daily about ending my father's life and guilting me that he was suffering. He needed a couple more procedures and it was more then he could take. He started getting afib and almost fainted during the dialysis treatment. This Dr contacted a heart Dr and my dad's nephrologist about putting him on end of life care. The nephrologist told me I'm only thinking of myself and being selfish and my dad wouldn't heal. As I mentioned we were never told any of this by the surgeon, we were given hope that he would get better. They treated me like I was a monster torturing my dad who I love and care for. I signed the paperwork that night, but immediately felt regret that I hadn't thought it through enough. I felt guilted and pressured by everyone. I tried stopping it to give my dad more time but he had more complications. I didn't want him to suffer. He died 2 days later. I feel like a murderer, I felt backed against a wall and guilted by everyone to sign. I tried to make the choice for myself and give my dad time but I just didn't want him to suffer in the end. My dad's surgeon was kind and compassionate he gave facts but no pressure or guilt about things. He said it's my choice. I just feel like an awful person and I miss my dad so much.

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Thank you to everyone who has commented. It's helped me alot today. We have to pick up my dad's ashes today and I think it's retriggering me all over again and just thinking about things. I've been having a hard time since last night. This whole thing has been one of the hardest situations I've ever dealt with. I wish you all peace and comfort whoever has lost a family member too.
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AlvaDeer Jan 2023
Our caring thoughts go out to you. Give yourself time. This is what grieving is like. Let yourself grieve and feel the pain.
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Reg, I'm so sorry for your loss.

Surgeons, at least some of them are notorious for not seeing the "big picture" of a patient's health. It sounds like that may have been the case with your dad.

Every hospital has a patient advocate office. I would encourage you to reach out and set up a meeting with them. Go in with a bulleted list of issues--the lack of adequate explanation beforehand and a disregard of your father's OTHER serious health conditions.

I think this will make you feel better and may result in bringing this surgeon's short-sightedness to light.
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NeedHelpWithMom Jan 2023
I love this suggestion!
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So sorry to hear about your dilemma situation. It sounds like your dad was very sick and I'm really sorry to hear about his suffering from various illnesses.

You saw your dad suffering so much. Any son or daughter would wouldn't want to see anyone they love in such pain. This has to be among the most difficult situation there is in life.

There is so much pain for you right now, loss of your dad, plus on top of this the pain of having to make this decision. We don't get to choose, but I wouldn't want any one to suffer after what seemed like a long journey of recuperation after each of the surgeries, this is torture. I wouldn't want to suffer like that myself or see anyone I love in such agony.

This is toughest decision to ever make and I wouldn't want anyone to be in this situation. I think in your case it was a joint decision based on the doctor's advice, although it was persistent advice from your doctor's, there has to be a reason for them to repeatedly ask you.

You saw your dad suffering so much and because you love him so much you didn't want to see that.

I would also seek professional regular counselling advice and help, you shouldn't have to go through these thoughts alone, maybe the hospital is able to help here.

so sorry for you loss, if you reading any answers, I wish you peace.
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reg1234 Jan 2023
Thank you for your kind words and thoughtful reply. I'm currently seeing a therapist, she also wants me to see a grief counselor through hospice. I may consider it in a bit. Things are so fresh still and not sure if I'm ready to be in that environment yet. Thanks again.
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I’m sorry for your loss. I’ve lost a dad I was very close with, and know the pain is hard to cope with. In my experience, surgeons like to do surgeries, and they’re good at it, but not much good past that. Follow up care and decisions aren’t their interest or strong suit. That’s where other doctors kick in and make decisions. They do the best they know know with the facts before them, but medicine is not an exact science. I believe people die when they are meant to, most often when old age and it’s multiple health issues mount up and just take over. It’s the natural course of life, we’re all headed there. That doesn’t make it easier, but guilt doesn’t help either. I hope you can accept what’s happened, know your precious dad is at peace, and come to some peace as you grieve and move forward
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reg1234 Jan 2023
Thank you. I'm very sorry about the loss of your dad as well. Yes it was mentioned by the other two doctors the same about the surgeon that he's not looking at the whole picture about my dad's health. At the end I also believe my dad died on his own. He had all the symptoms of nearing death (they told me some and recently I looked online and he had every one). At the end it wasn't really my choice or the doctors I think just his time as you said. It's just hard when you feel you play a part in deciding that for your parent. I understand what you are saying though the guilt won't help. Thank you.
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My heart goes out to you. My beloved father passed away 7 months ago. I’m processing the trauma of how things played out in the hospital and aftermath re/ our mother’s care. I’ve worked as a chaplain and a psychologist in hospital settings at different points in my career. I offer is this:

1) Find a seasoned grief counselor who also works with traumatic grief with whom you can process your grief and the trauma of being pressured by the uncompassionate doctor. You were truly doing the best you could under the hardest of circumstances. You may know this to be true intellectually-talking it through w/ a competent therapist can help it eventually FEEL true.

2) what would you say to someone you care about struggling w/ what you are? what would your father say to you about this? What would he want you to know right now?

One thing clearly comes through in your sharing-you made decisions out of love. That is indisputable…sending a hug from one grieving child to another
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Don't blame yourself or feel guilty for something you had no control of, and no knowledge about, reg. You were not given the full picture of what might occur with your dad, should he undergo this surgery while having diabetes and kidney failure. The onus was on the DOCTORS to speak to you about the possible ramifications of this procedure, and not to leave you in the dark about such matters. Doctors are not the gods they THINK they are, nor should they have treated you in such a foul and disgusting manner as they did, coercing you into making an immediate decision about dad's end of life care. Shame on THEM. I believe you made THE right decision in that regard, and spared your dear dad any possible pain & suffering he may have endured.

You have no reason to feel like an awful person b/c you did nothing wrong. I understand you miss your dad and this loss is tremendous. May God bless you and help you through this grief you're experiencing, giving you mercy and peace the entire time.
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reg1234 Jan 2023
Thank you so much. I really appreciate your kindness. I think that is what also just truly haunts me is how I was spoken to and treated at the hospital. Those words just stay with you. After awhile it's hard to know who to believe and I just wanted to do the right thing by my dad and his life. I hope and pray I did. This whole situation besides his death has really tormented me. I appreciate your prayers too.
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I’m sorry for what you are going thru… hugs and condolences..

my moms hospice had grief counseling. Reach out to them.

The dr was insensitive , for sure. the surgeon told you it was your choice, he must have felt it was time for your dad to stop all the procedures.

my opinion .. you gave your dad the best gift possible.
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reg1234, welcome to the forum. So sorry about the passing of your Dad.

Can you give us more information, such as your Dad's age, and what were his health issues. It will help us get a better idea of the situation.
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reg1234 Jan 2023
My dad had diabetes and was a dialysis patient. He ended up needing an amputation on his toes on both feet. He had another wound due to an unnecessary medical procedure. All were slow healing but we were never told by surgeon he wouldn't heal. We knew things were serious but everything we did for my dad was to try and help him.
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Reg, a long answer about a comparable doctor issue with my mother, aged 78. Her cancer came back after 10 years, and had metastasised throughout her abdomen. She had many other health issues, and saw a physician to co-ordinate treatments. Her oncologist performed a major operation which removed a portion of the metastases, before which she had to be in hospital for over a week to deal with the blood thinners that would have led to massive bleeding in the operation. Then another 3 weeks in hospital.

At the end of that, the oncologist wanted to start another round of chemo plus radio therapy. My mother had reacted very badly to that the first time. The physician disagreed. The two of them had a noisy argument outside her room in the hospital corridor when I was with her. M was intending to try, as her first round had given her 10 years of life. She was shifted to a lower-care hospital, and I was with her when the physician visited. He didn’t question the oncologist’s advice, clearly wasn’t willing to be critical in front of the patient. I asked him how long M would be likely to live with or without the chemo. He said a short time without, and about 6 months with, most of it receiving chemo and radio therapy. My mother immediately chose to skip the treatment. She got discharged, went home for regular help from her trusted GP, I moved in with her, and she died 4 weeks later. It was very definitely her choice.

I felt very bitter about the oncologist, whose bill (partly covered by medical insurance) had clearly been well over $100,000, and whose treatment had given my mother a lot of pain in the last 3 months (she was in no pain before the operation). I don’t know if she (F oncologist) found it difficult to accept that death was imminent and she was powerless to cure anything, or if she was in it for the money.

My feeling is that your hospital doctor was right, and so were the others. Your surgeon was just like our oncologist, and the hospital doctor also had professional problems about disagreeing with the treatment. That’s why she disappeared onto her phone. Your surgeon was “kind and compassionate”? “We were given hope that he would get better”? It doesn’t sound that you were really given the facts, which is why all the other doctors had problems with his treatment. It sounds a lot like M’s oncologist, and I don’t class it as “kind and compassionate”.

I think that you should stop feeling guilty yourself, and realise that some specialists should feel a lot more guilty themselves. You did the right thing for your Dad. The surgeon did not.
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reg1234 Jan 2023
Thank you for your response. I'm very sorry about your Mom. I agree as I've wondered about the surgeon and decisions that were made. I think it would have helped me if both doctors had a meeting together and laid out the facts with me. It became a he said she said argument and was very confusing. As you said it seems drs don't want to speak out against each other. It felt like the other two doctors wanted to give up on my dad, but I also question if the surgeon was just trying too hard and not really telling us the truth about the severity of the situation. Maybe for those reasons it gave the impression I didn't care if my dad suffered or not. Of course I did and if I had more factual information I wouldn't have tried so hard either. Unfortunately I also was put in a bad spot, I think that stays with me the most. Everyone thinking I had no care for my dad or I was being selfish keeping him alive. It hurts me alot and I think that's where the guilt comes from. I truly just wanted to do right by my dad....
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I am so very sorry for your great loss. Men are made to "fix" things. And when there is no fix- it in site, their grief sometimes becomes anger directed out and guilt directed inward.
Guilt is for felons. Guilt means you were in charge and you purposefully both made your father ill and purposely failed to heal him. Guilt means you could have and should have done something that would have saved your father. Guilt has a sort of hubris attached to it which insinuates that you are in charge of life and death, and that isn't the case.
Try the other G-word which is grief. Staying in guilt leaves you mired in a form of "I should have done something and I still can" and grief recognizes that you have lost your Dad. He was a very ill man. He may have been more ready for peace than he felt free to tell you.
If you cannot heal with time feel free to seek counseling from professionals who can help you comb through your feelings. Your wish to be angry at someone? Well, we nurses were often on the bad end of that one, as are doctors often. They are used to it. The fact is that the doctor told you the hard truth.
I am so very sorry for your loss, for your grief. Your father must have been very very special indeed to have earned this much love from his son, and that makes both him and you quite lucky men.
From the moment we are born there is but one certainty. That is that we WILL die. And if we are loved, there will be grief, but there should not be guilt. It does no one any honor.
I hope for your healing and a lessening of your pain. I am 80 years old. As you can imagine I have seen my share of loss. It is never ever easy. It takes time. Sometimes we need help with it.
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reg1234 Jan 2023
I didn't specify but I'm a daughter. I don't want to be angry at anyone and I'm not mad about being told the truth. What made me angry at the time is how it was handled I was told in a hallway for the first time that my dad wouldn't recover and he wouldn't heal well. Before that all we were told things are going well. I was also told how much I'm making my dad suffer and to decide right now to end everything. As I was asking questions the dr goes on her phone and is scrolling. Truth doesn't make me angry it's just how it was handled which made me dislike the Dr.
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