Diabetic father would rather die than have his leg amputated to save the family from trouble...but it's causing trouble! What can I do?

Yay, glad to hear this, Zeta!

Hello! I continually thank everyone who have given me support and advice. This will likely be my last update, for hopefully good reasons =D. I haven't updated since basically my first visit to him. I've since visited him twice.

My father was scheduled, shockingly to me, very quickly for heart surgery. I was also surprised that my father's sister had the money to come from the east coast to be with him for the surgery on such short notice. We visited him frequently but we also went to his house to assess and begin packing. I was really glad to have had direct and present family support for this.

Originally they were concerned that he was entering into the heart transplant level of heart failure, this is hear say from me but it sounded like that was at 25% heart function and he was getting down to 28% heart function. The edema medication they placed him on rouse his heart output to 38% so; they wanted to do triple bypass surgery on him but they determined that he most likely had a heparin allergy, medication I've never really knew about before! This medication allowed for the total chemical reversal of thinning of the blood after they're done with the surgery. Instead they postponed the surgery which, fortunately for me and my aunt, was the next day and not the day before she had to fly back out. Instead of open heart surgery they decided to go with stents, which they said was inappropriate for the level of blockage he had as well as him being a diabetic. The surgery went, as I put it, perfectly. They were able to do it all in one session; six stents, three on each side of his heart and two being fashioned into a single Y. He's feeling a lot better and sadly I had to leave an hour before they moved him into a rehabilitation center but my aunt got to spend another day with him.

This weekend my significant other and I went down to move all his stuff out of the house he was renting with his roommate. This lady was packing all of his things for him, even though my father suspects and has an ongoing police investigation where he's cited her as the suspect in the thief the the family heirlooms. We're there to move all his belongings but this lady has to go over everything about every box and tell me what the box is about all while the weekend is ticking away and the move out date is there. My s/o was losing his patience with her for wasting out time and finally told her that we may not be able to come back again next week to finish up. This set her off and they argued, I believe she legitimately thinks that I'm obligated to destroy my life because this is my father. She and him got into a fight where she kicked him out and then had the audacity to tell me how much "negative energy" he has just because he was speaking the logical truth about the situation. If it wasn't for him talking me down I would have just left back to our home fortunately he said he wasn't here to waste our time, lol... Anyway, we moved pretty much everything except his furniture and a box or two of his supplements and misc items, into his new 10x10 storage.

The plan now is that we will hire movers to move the furniture and whatever boxes are left into another storage unit for a month or two before he and his business partner ultimately move the contents of the storage further south to where his support group is. I'm really hoping I've managed to save him hundreds of dollars by not having to hire people to pack and move all of his things on an hour rate.

And finally the bonus personal share. Every day I've been down there I felt I've needed a stiff drink to unwind at the end of the day. That luxury wasn't provided to me on any of the days on my second visit but this time my s/o and I were able to goto the Ballast Point Brewery for a much needed break and it was spectacular. The following night we went to another place that had the best margaritas I think I ever had.

Thank you all for listening, advising and commenting. This has been really helpful for me ♥!

Gosh you have so much going on.i was in a similar situation 18mnths ago different medical issues than your father's but similar situation.i had no choice but to move him in with my self and my children and my husband.it was that or he would of died.i lost my living room as I turned it in to a bedroom.i lost any time I had for my self or my family .I gave up work.i spent the next couple of months changing doctors sorting pensions out.changing banks getting my dad in to a routine that suited us not him us.and he was to like it or lump it I had to take charge of his life and health I took all responsibility away from him.lets go forward to today..he has his life.he has a lovley flat that we found for him after nearly a year.he has his health we got him pip payments and I got carer's allowance which helps.hes turned his life around now after someone had to take charge my dad's 69 as well on his own divorced twenty years. You have to take control either way by taking charge and saying right were going to do this...or letting him do it on his own his way

Zeta you have been told everything I am going to say.
A diabetic with a bone infection in a foot is just waiting to die unless the amputation is performed and even then may not survive if septicemia sets in.
It sounds as though your father has now gone into serious heart failure which makes an operation impossible at this point and may kill him anyway.
Giving honey to a diabetic is putting a nail in their coffin.
Make sure his business associates know how seriously ill your father is so they don't ask him to make decisions at this time.
If you have been on your antidepressant medications for a while do not stop them at this point, they will not cloud your judgement as you are used to them. Eat light easy to digest meals and drink plenty of fluids bt go light on the caffeine if you can..
Hard as this may be do not take responsibility for your father's care either by providing a place for him to live or helping financially
He has made decisions that are not in his best interests but never the less he was and is entitled to make. There is nothing you or anyone else can do to change that.
I do think you should let your aunt alert the family so they can visit if they so desire.
Also have your aunt round up oter family members to clear out Dad's apartment. That's something you don't need to be worrying about.
If you think this would be appropriate arrange to have a minister visit your father if he agrees. Most hospitals have a chaplain on staff.
Remember this is not your problem. You did not create it so don't take on responsibilities that other people get paid for doing. Blessings

Dear Zeta, as your father is deeply involved in alternative medicine, and his own business and his friends are all involved in it too, my guess is that there is a low chance of getting any mainstream medicine options dealt with reasonably. That is why his health has reached this point. All the normal advice will go nowhere, and will only frustrate you. Look after your heart, and just accept that he will go his own way.

I had a neighbor whose feet turned what is called "black" (actually a horrible purply blue), due to an operation gone wrong. The doctors wanted to amputate his feet. My neighbor's wife, knowing her semi-conscious husband's wishes, said no. She rubbed castor oil on his feet several times a day. In 2 weeks, normal color started returning. In 2 more weeks, the feet were normal. My neighbor was able to save his feet, including his toes, through his wife's persistent rubbing of castor oil on them. He ended up walking into his doctors' offices on his now-healthy feet. Those doctors wanted nothing to do with him. They could not admit they were wrong.

I don't disagree with any of the answers listed below so far.
I would add one possible additional resource... if he is admitted to a hospital that has a palliative care team, ask for a consult. Palliative care, which is NOT the same thing as hospice, can help you and your dad and his care team, establish a plan of care that honors his values and takes into account his social situation and relationships, including you and your relationships. They can help you get the help needed to find out what options you have/he has for treatment and for care, regardless of what treatment he agrees to or not. They are very good at helping people get clear about what they really want, rather than making reactive decisions. For some people, "dying rather that amputation" ends up being the most respectful route; for others, it may be based on reaction to having doctors that have not understood how to help them understand their situation. They are also expert at helping the medical team assess decision-making capacity, and supporting you, or whoever his surrogate decision-maker is, to help make decisions if he becomes unable.
You may have some very tough realities to face in the coming days/weeks/months; they can support and slow things down for you and your dad to come closer to the "same page". I wish all the best, Zeta, for you and your dad.

"The people who've let him into their home are suggesting the best thing is that the hospital admits him and provides him the care he needs for a couple days so that he regains some strength and continues on his treatment to recover."

Sounds good to me.

"Obviously that'd be wonderful except I know I need to put something into place in the event that's not what happens." 

You need to? Why? I mean, why you? Isn't that your father's business?

I think you should give your father's generous and kind housemates your blessing. Your father is fortunate that these people continue to serve his best interests even if he's apparently lost sight of them.

You'd better discuss with them, while you're at it, what they ought to do if your father refuses this plan then goes on to develop sepsis and fall unconscious. I recommend they do not ask for prior instructions from him so that they will remain free to respond appropriately to the emergency.

I am sorry, I know I am being harsh. But truly what makes me angry is not that your father is making these choices, I agree that he is entitled. It's that his choices are hurting *you*. His friends seem to have their heads screwed on and I'm less concerned for them, but I'm sure they are extremely anxious to get him out of their house.

If his leg is that bad, he can show up at a hospital and any time and he'll likely be admitted. Once he's admitted, all the arguments over treatment can happen there. And, if he's having the amputation, he will be sent to rehab after the hospital stay and then, if he's still unable to take care of himself, he can't be discharged, he will be admitted to a SNF, pending Medicaid (unless he already has Medicaid).

The key is, DO NOT indicate that you can IN ANY WAY physically take care of him. They will try to discharge him to your care and then you'll lose your job, your relationship, and your own health. Stand strong. Even if you did take care of him, sacrificing everything, he'd eventually need to be in a SNF. If he has the amputation, sales through rehab and is independent, great! He'll take care of himself.

Try to get him admitted to a hospital near you. Bring him for a visit and then take him to the local ER. Ignore his objections and drama. How will you take off over and over again to visit him at a distant hospital and SNF?? You can't.

If your dad is telling different stories to different people it could be that he has sold those items & doesn't want you/the family to know - most people are bad liars because they don't remember what they said if it comes up again

If he is competent then there's nothing that you can do - be prepared that if gangrene sets in & he doesn't want the amputation then it will take a week or so & he'll be pretty drugged up plus there is a terrible odour - it is time for you to realize that not everyone wants to continue life unless it's on their terms & you may have to just be prepared to let him go the way he wants

It is between a rock & a hard place now but until he is declared incompetent then you can't do anything - does he have a P.O.A. in place? - if it's you then you need to think out what to do - most likely once he is so far gone that you become in charge then it will be too late to get the amputation done anyway

FYI ... my mom had her leg amputated in early July but the other foot became an issue in Sept. - she was not a candidate for a second operation as she never was able to eat well after the first one - she died 8 Oct. - I know it is hard but you will have realize that doing anything is just delaying the inevitable & sometimes that isn't enough as much as you want it

I would say there's prob some long term in house fixes. But in the short term this is social worker territory. Care for anyone over 75. Requires really a 50 month 100 month 300 + plan. Short of being rich. Everyone else has to come up with a very good 30 plus, year plan for care.

Read your last paragraph, Zeta. He is doing you a huge favor. Day to day when you are alone doing this causes resentment and guilt for these emotions. Everyone tells us take care of yourself. Now I am saying it- Ha ! It is true, however. We tunnel downward into despair as we try with love to help our loved ones. Now, if he is in the hospital, it is their social worker department who will figure out where to put him. Nursing home-rehab section, call it, as it doesn't sound so final. You will feel better knowing he is somewhere safe and taken care of. Then you see him when you can. They have activities and stimulation he can participate in. He will , at least, have staff to talk to and other patients and staff he can talk to. So don't take it on yourself at home. Once he is in the hospital they can and will take it from there. They do this daily. Susan .Retired nurse.

Sounds like he wants to call his own shots. If you can’t move closer to care for him I suggest you agree with the caregiver and be by the phone to help. It it seems as if it’s out of your control as your dad wishes.

Hi, I'm sorry for not updating in the last couple days. My father kind of pushed me over the edge on Friday evening. I stopped at his house to grab some valuables. When I got there he couldn't explain to me where the key to his metal cabinet was, he's apparently even more disorganized than I am, and I searched for a really long time. I finally used a common object to pry it opened only to discover that 3 of the 5 family heirloom we're missing. He made me call the police to report it while he roommate pleaded with me not to cause a scene so late in the evening that could upset her elderly father :(.

With my father being ill and no one knowing how long ago the heirloom went missing or if there could be the possibility it was at the storage facility he apparently is renting they wouldn't open a case.

Then I found out that he was telling my family and others that the roommate had locked me out and that I caught her with that cabinet opened. This all is causing me to think he may not actually be of sound mind. My father also stopped breathing several times Saturday night / Sunday morning and the doctors and nursing staff were very concerned and gave him some medication to... freeze...? his airway? I didn't understand that part. He sounded awful; the first day I felt he didn't get better.

He's being sent to another facility today for an angiogram and probably an angioplasty at the same time.

Anyway :( an update for me is that I got home Saturday morning only to take my significant other to the ER all day due to some yet diagnosed back pain that causes them to get violently ill :(. Sunday our friends had a wedding and I'm so glad we got to make it for that. They started a famiy 10 years ago but we're finally tying the knot :).

I'm still stressing out over having to move his stuff out of that house within this 30 day notice thing. My aunt is trying to see if her niece's, my cousin's, husband and son would be able to help me pack and move his things to storage.

Again, thank you all for your support, advice and just letting me chronical this somewhere! I hope if someone else who might go through this might later benefit from just reading my story.

I recently read that an intermittent diet has done wonders for people with diabetes T2. I wish I could share the link but don't have it anymore. I'm sure you can Google it and find something. On the other hand, as you say your father's mind is sound, perhaps is time to gather several family members and friends for a serious talk. He may listen better if it comes from a group of people who care about him than just his child because parents usually think they know better than their children. I'm sorry about your situation. It's never easy to see our parents getting older. Don't forget to take care of yourself. You deserve it!

Does he live in an area where a doctor will go out to see him? And he can have in-home care?
I pray that everything will work out for all of you.

I was diagnosed with diabetes in 2011. There is no cure, but it is manageable with a good diet. I find that the low-carb Banting diet works for me.

There is a wonderful and extremely helpful American diabetic forum, if you'd like to get guidance for your dad. www.diabetesforum.com. The community is amazing and offer great advice as well as a good food plan with recipes too.

If he's leg is 'fixable' , let the medics do that, but he would have to go on the correct diet to keep his diabetes under control.

Good luck.

That’s a tough sitauation. Does he have type 1 or 2? My grandfather died of an infection on his foot because of his diabetes ( also 69 years old)... a lot of times Diet can reverse type 2 diabetes in a few weeks... and by diet, I mean, a fully raw plant based diet... please look into it

Zeta; how are things today? ((((hugs)))))

I am sorry that you have to go through this. However, I am glad that you got some good advice and support here, as well with a SW.

But I must tell you DON'T give your dad any food or medications even if is supplements unless his Dr okays it. The Dr has to know what is going into your dad and what is going out of your dad. You don't want any bad reaction with food or drugs.

If your dad has a good amount of urine coming out that is a good thing!

Keep your head up. As soon as the Dr gets your dad's health under control it will be easier for you and family to know what to do with his living situation.

Take care of yourself.

God bless you!

Zeta, if you don't take care of YOU, there won't be anyone around to advocate for dad.

1. Talk to the SW about a place to shower and a comfortable chair to nap in.

2. Eat real food. Ask if you can order at least one meal a from the patient menu.

3. dad is there to heal, not work. Say no to requests that have you running around. If necessary, say it's doc orders, or that you don't have the car ( have your family come get the car!)

4. Check out Caring Bridge. Or send one person an email with an update ONCE a day. Ask them to forward it.

5. Ditch the healer folks. Isn't that how dad ended up in this shape?

Take care of yourself! (((((Hugs)))))))

Zeta, a telephone tree might help. You pick someone you get on OK with in the ‘natural business medicine’ side, and someone on the family side. They have a list of people they phone with news. Depending on the number of people involved, the people they phone also have a list that they contact. They pass on the news, and they collect up the questions to pass up the tree. You deal with only two people. It is a real answer to ‘what can I do to help’. Even a 'telephone bush' helps - let one sister know, she phones the others. The chances of the hospital medicos spending time talking to the natural medicine practitioners is very low, perhaps just ignore that request.

Have you called in any back up?

You do not need to be his girl Friday if it puts your livelihood in peril.

Don't let everyone run you ragged, if they want to know, come to the hospital and talk to him, like you don't have enough on your plate, sheesh.

Uuntreated or mistreated diabetes can contribute to all of the medical issues he is now faced with. My dad did the same thing to himself, until he almost died, he did what ever he wanted. Ugh!

I am sorry that your home is struggling with out you, shows how vital you are to your home and loved ones.

Ask the hospital to let you shower, they have facilities in place for that. You will feel better able to face the trials.

Most important, get some other folks on board so you can go home for a bit. Tough if he doesn't like it, you need to deal with your responsibilities and he can understand or not, doesn't change anything.

Thank you for updating us and take care of you!

Hugs!

This update is for me. I'm feeling so overwhelmed coordinating communication between his sisters / my aunts and his business associates of which out number my family 2 to 1 in both number and intensity.

I'm upset that he is conducting his business today and had me drive for an hour to get his computer. I don't think it's a good decision for him and made sure he understood I'd only help him if he felt capable. Fortunately it's just computer work and not a physical burdern so I understand it may be good mental excercise for him. Also I guess it speaks words to his health. I just hope it's real improvement and not rallying, which was mentioned.

I haven't showered since the day I left to the hospital and I'm feeling so horrible. I left my significant other without transportation and they're not doing well spiritually, which feels like that came out of the blue. I feel like I need to get back home for those reasons and work.

Im so worried about where he intends to go after this. The social worker said she'd help us figure out those next steps so I know I shouldn't worry but how can I not when it feels like he doesn't have anything in place?

I managed to take my important pills yesterday but apparently I passed out before taking my medication for controlling post cholestectomy side effects. At least I took those today.

Zeta, thanks for the update.

"I want to shut them down / out and allow one proverbial chef in the kitchen." Sounds good to me.

I'm so glad you are getting some helpful assistance and guidance from the social worker. Yay!

Ok, so... I'm catching up with the doctors but it now sounds like this doesn't have anything to do with his foot, which makes me feel better but opens a whole bunch of unknowns.

I guess there's blood tests that can show markers for heart attack which is positively tested for. He has pulmonary edema, congestive heart failure, water on the lungs and decreased kidney output.

His doctor has come back again after giving me that news earlier and said that he's looking a lot better, which I can't tell but maybe because it's slow progress. He's being given a dieuretic which has increased his output, which is apparently good, but the concern now is not over taxing his kidneys.

I now have a new problem. I hadn't mentioned, I don't think, that my father is heavily into alternative medicine, being a practitioner himself. His associates want to come by and perform ultrasonic something or other on his foot, a dietian colleague wants me to go-to the health food store to get him food without surgar or wheat and his doctor who has been overseeing his care is asking for all sorts of information from his EKG and wants to guide the doctor here... Through me... Ugh... I don't want to be micromanaged.

I want to shut them down / out and allow one proverbial chef in the kitchen. I also unintionally missed my meds, so I'm going to follow everyone's advice and continue them after I find food :).

Zeta, I would probably want to keep the anti-depressant going so you're on as much as an even keel as possible during this crisis (the ICU environment is so inherently stressful!) but is it possible to put in an urgent call or email to your doctor or his or her nurse and ask them?

Stay strong! It sounds like you are handling things very well. :)

So, I personally would call everyone that he loves and that loves him. He needs to know that he has a reason to fight for his life.

Having everyone there will let him know he has support and love.

Don't listen to the nurse, most have hard hearts and do not give good advice. I get it, if they didn't harden up they would burn out in no time, but this is not there decision. People also can rally right before they pass.

Get his support group in place quickly, he will also get better care, proven fact that individuals who have involved loved ones receive better care.

Do not stop taking your meds, you do not want the full anxiety of dealing with this. Trust me, it took 10 years off my life.

May God grant you peace and comfort and lay His healing hand on your dad.

HUGS!

I'm now in the ICU with him. It sounds like they're having difficulty controlling his heart rythum, blood pH (high not low) and oxygen levels. His monitors seem to page the nurses about every 10 minutes.

My aunt is asking me if I should call in the family and the nurses are saying his doing better than yesterday. I'm hoping I'm making the right decision to tell her not at the moment.

This may seem like a strange request for advice but should I stop taking my antidepressant during this situation so that my attention is fully here and my anxity isn't muted?

I was just about to update that I called the social resources department about 2 hours ago when Barb suggested it then I got the phone call. They've been the most helpful so far but we're in the establishing my identity phase.

He was admitted overnight and they said they said he'd likely be staying there for at least another night. His friends administered honey to him this morning, and you'll have to forgive me but, his blood sugar was in the low 30s this morning and is presently above 300 now or something like that. It's just hearsay from his friends until the medical staff will speak to me.