I have a 88 year old lady that my husband and I have watched over just like mowing her grass and yard clean up dr appointments and medical procedures for about 10 years. She always been very independent but as the years have clicked by it has gotten to be more and more. We have never been paid for anything, and we’ve never asked.
In December (she goes to Florida) I couldn’t get ahold of her so I made some phone calls and sure enough she was in the hospital down there. I booked my plane ticket and got right out of town and down to her. Between myself and her neice we took turns staying with her until we could bring her back to Michigan the end of April.
she has a grocery list of health issues and her dr doesn’t want her alone at all anymore. Her daughter has never helped her and refuses to help. It has been dumped on the neice and myself. Staying with her and away from my family and my farm is getting difficult, my own house and barn is going to pot quick. This old gal insists she can be alone which we know she can’t. I have offered for her to move into my home with us and she refuses to leave her home and refuses to pay for help and refuses to go into an assisted living facility. She very stubborn and gets mean with you for even suggesting it. I don’t know what to do anymore. I know I can’t continue to put my stuff on hold and be away from my family but the dr said she is not to be alone.
any advice is super appreciated!
Giving you the benefit of the doubt, please ignore the snarkier comments here.
I would NOT move her into your house. That is really a line you should not cross. It sounds to me that she probably has dementia. Many elders do, like my mom, and they are totally unable to make sound decisions for themselves. No one WANTS to do into a facility. We all WANT to stay home but sometimes that is just impossible and unsafe for a multitude of reasons.
It's not your job to make sure she can stay in her home. Your job is to take care of YOUR children. YOUR husband. YOUR farm, etc etc. Being helpful to your friend in your spare time is so very nice of you, but you really need to put it into perspective and push her down the priority list.
I think you should get information to her doctor regarding her condition and the need for cognitive testing. ASAP.
If she falls or has another issue at home and contacts you, do not go running over there. Tell her to call 911. This is too much and could go on for quite some time.
You need to set boundaries and strictly enforce them. I like someone's phrase on here "I couldn't possibly do that.". End of answer. You do not need to explain yourself. And you can just say NO also.
She really needs to start paying for any things that are done on her behalf. Everything. Even if it's just reimbursement for money spent for her and not a penny extra. But you have gone way above and beyond. If you're wicked rich, then I guess it's OK but still not right. She's kind of using you and you're letting her. Time to end that.
It's not easy standing up to someone that is now dependent upon you but it is still the correct thing to do.
Take care of yourself and your own family first.
Won't go in to details b/c it's still triggering to me that I ever did this and when I talk about it (which I DO NOT) I find I am depressed and feel so hateful--b/c she used me up and threw me away with no 'thanks for ruining your life for mine"...
Long, long story short: There is service, and there's servitude. Service is important for us to give as it connects us as a human family and is often needed in times of troubles or trials.
Servitude is when someone turns to you for the answer/solution to all of their life problems and they just sit there and let you--and expect more and more and more.
This woman, for whom you feel such empathy--is NOT your problem. You can 'help her' by helping her to be placed in an appropriate living space that is NOT your home. You can visit her, whatever, but she is NOT your problem. She has family. I get that. 'My' lady had family, but come to find out, she had burned them all to a crisp with her sad-sack stories and neverending needs.
You can definitely HELP her, but you cannot be her 'all' --not w/o serious damage to your family.
My DH told me in the start of my 'saving' this woman that it was a terrible idea and he would not support me in it.
I got involved anyway.
It's the ONE single thing that I truly, truly regret having done. I DIDN'T help her, I made her MORE needy by taking over all her problems.
In retrospect, organizing other ways to help her and being like 98% less involved would have probably resulted in the same outcome, but not at the level that it was.
Mom used to promise money to all of her hangers on who were concerned while they thought she was rich but the reality is her house was in foreclosure and she had long since spent all her money. Once it became clear she had no money they all disappeared. We could have really used the help. Funny how that works.
I mean that was sweet and all of that, but she isn’t your responsibility.
1. My mom started calling us and my nearby cousin for all sorts of "emergencies". She lived alone is an isolated suburban, no sidewalks, neighbors not home in the day time.
Mom kept getting hospitalized for sudden high blood pressure, panic, sudden changes in mental status. They'd send her home with no answers
We all worked, had kids and mortgages and were years from retirement. Mom had savings but dad's last words were "Never sell the house" and "don't move and pay high rent."
It was clear mom needed to be in a different environment where she was able to be around people who could help her if needed.
The final straw was one week when Mom called me three days running at work.
I sat her down and said "mom, this isn't working anymore".
It was hard to say. She was angry. But the other choice was for me to lose my job, my home and probably my marriage. I chose MY life.
We moved mom into a nice Independent Living Facility "for the winter"--it was a good fictional way to get her to leave her home and get used to a new way of life.
By springtime, she was settled, love the restaurant style food and activities and variety of people.
A big plus was an onsite geriatric doc and geriatric psychiatrist who managed mom's anxiety.
Was it what mom wanted, or thought she wanted? No. But it was what she needed at that point in her life. And none of us had to sacrifice OUR families to get her what she needed.
2. Read the distilled wisdom here:
https://www.agingcare.com/discussions/if-you-are-going-to-become-a-caregiver-480769.htm?orderby=oldest
Edit: I just read all the responses and I feel even more strongly that you should not do it. She isn’t healthy, doesn’t want to move, and she will drag you down. You said her daughter has had it with her because of how she is and yet YOU want to get involved? If you want to get involved make sure she gets the care she needs. Your husband should use his POA to use her money to pay for caregivers who are NOT YOU. If she resists tell the daughter and niece that she needs more care than you can provide and they need to do more or else you will be forced to have her placed into a home. I guarantee that the daughter thinks you are nuts for doing what you are doing and she would be correct.
Here's food for thought. Take it as you will.
A wonderful neighbor did something similar to what you are considering. The only difference he didn't move the lady into his home. He was there for everything else she needed, such as shopping, going to church with her, going out to dinner.
Guess what? His doing these things for her left him with no life of his own. The end result, he passed, and she lived for over a decade more.
Isn't that just how it goes. The needy, demanding elder who can't do anything for themselves often for years at a time ends up outliving their care slave.
Proof that God has a strange sense of humor.
There are three others who know what the doctor said. It’s rather grandiose to think you are THE ONE for Ms 88.
You have been a wonderful neighbor. No doubt …but your neighbor has moved to Florida, for Pete’s sake.
Get home to your own problems and responsibilities.
Most of us could use a Grullagirl but we will have to get by without you.
You are responsible for your own family.
Give her a big hug. Pack your bags and go home.
You seem to be a thoughtful caring person but you are getting in over your head and are being taken advantage of by her family. I think you need to decide how much you can do and speak up.
Relatives can only do so much - can't make an elder change their mind, employ home help, seek medical treatment or move.
So they step back.
Grull stepped forward..
Do you have medical training, Grull?
Do you recognize the symptoms of a UTI (there are none, except behavioral ones in elders), Pneumonia vs CHF (trained folks can hear the difference), end stage kidney disease?
This lady needs medical professionals caring for her. That is very much what is best for her.
She says her daughter wants to "pull the plug"? And you believe that?
Isn't what the daughter wants is for her mom to use her money on CARE? To me, that speaks to someone who doesn't care about an inheritance.
You still have kids at home? How are THEY doing?
My very selfless parents spent my childhood caring for ill relatives when they should have been attending to us. I understood their very pure motives, but they seemed to think that we wouldn't miss the parenting, which should have been their primary job.
After 15+ combative, depressing, frustrating, thankless years of my help, my mother claims I want to have her shot and killed by snipers positioned around the neighbourhood.
Sure you can picture yourself. spending the next 10+ years bathing her, changing her briefs, wiping her butt... ? You may find out the hard way why her daughter walked away. By then it’ll be too late.
Now please correct me if I am wrong..
You & DH live near this lady & have helped her out. She began to rely on you more at times, especially after a hospital stay. She doesn’t get along with her daughter (not our business).
Niece has helped but now reached her limits.
You stepped in to help. Slipped in deeper & am now stuck. Right?
You found this forum for advice.
OK so far?
What do you see?
Lady 88 has health needs. Now has moved from mostly *independant* to *dependant*.
She does not want to accept this. (Who ever does?) Fear & anger. Normal reactions. I don't blame her for fighting the good fight against old age.
Now besides her fighting spirit, CHF can cause lower oxygen & kidney decline can cause toxins to build up. Both can impact cognitive function - can show up in poor judgement, planning & memory. It is possible she really cannot understand she needs help. But really, that stubborness is textbook common. It's like Old Age Stubborness 101.
OK. So Lady 88 wants to stay in her home. Not forever, that's impossible, we all die. So Stay Home *As Long As Possible* is how to keep rephrasing it every time.
HOW do people do this? How can SHE do this?
Denial is common. Asking for help is hard. Some only accept they must ask after a fall or crises forces them. Then,
1. Ask trusted relatives & friends to help. This lasts until needs EXCEED what they can offer.
2. Then paid Home Services are needed - until needs EXCEED the funding/availability/practicallity.
3. Next is supported living, moving to where care is provided 24/7.
Having 'strangers' or to re-phrase 'staff' come to your home is HOW to EXTEND living at home.
The stubborn who refuse this step move directly to 3. after a fall or other crises.
Does this help?
This is just info. I been there too! Your Lady 88 is right there at the end of level 1.
What do you think you will need to do to climb out of this & back to your own life?
after speaking with her neice and adult granddaughter last night, the 3 of us have decided something needs to get in place with hospice or a home. We all agree she can’t come here. We were trying to come up with options and that’s why we thought because she didn’t want to go in a home or pay for a caregiver and not much family involvement our only other option would be to bring her here. So that’s off the plate. (I’m thankful that her limited family sees we need to do something) Her neice and granddaughter think it’s best to get hospice involved, and before we can do that the 3 of us are taking her to the dr together (I’ve done 99% of dr appointments with her, literally missing one at that was 2 weeks ago when her neice took her for a injection) We need to know mentally what is going on, and the DPOA only kicks in if she cannot make decisions for herself (that’s what we believe)
now about my kids, one is 28years old and lives in her own house and the other is 22 years old, is a college student and a pet store owner. It not that they are little guys I’m neglecting, however we are very close.
for those of you asking about the daughter, she herself has called and personally asked me to do stuff for her mother for years. (Dr appt, heart ablations, pacemaker, skin cancer removal, ER visits, and the list goes on, so when I say the daughter is a POS, I know for a fact nothing matters to the daughter, and maybe that’s self preservation or maybe that’s who she is, we will never know but personally I don’t know anyone else who wouldn’t bet at the mom’s appointments or taking her to the ER when the 88yo calls the daughter. The daughter calls ME!) The 2 guys and money situation, it was her daughter who called me otherwise I would have had no clue about it.
Your husband has POA and once his friend is diagnosed with dementia, he can have her placed in Memory Care Assisted Living where she can be properly cared for 24/7. Unless you have medical training, you are unqualified to care for someone with "a grocery list of health issues."
Elders with tons of health issues don't always get what they want later on in life, especially at the expense of neighbors who have obligations to their own children which should take precedence over everyone else. How did your children feel when you were gone from December to April looking after someone who hadn't even asked for your help? These are valid questions to ask yourselves when making life changing decisions that will affect your immediate family tremendously.
Her daughter appears to be the only smart one in this soap opera. Be more like her daughter.
You're right about that, my friend. Hospice at home is a joke. I should know I was contracted out to many home hospice cases when I was a caregiver. A nurse stops in to do meds and they'll send a bath aide to wash a person up a couple times a week.
That's pretty much it.
They do not provide companion services who will watch a person for hours at a time.
Be aware that most hospice organizations require that the client have 24/7 care, provided by others. It is not, as CW says, full time care.
Your friend isn't going to be happy. Mentally prepare yourself for that. Let us know how it goes. (((Hugs))).
once she gets the diagnosis then the DPOA and the financial papers will kick in and she won’t even need to know what is being spent on outside caregivers. I know per her insurance they will cover 35 hrs a week of care from an agency. That will help tremendously.
it’s just never a good feeling to have to do this, we honestly had hoped her body would fail before her mind went but it’s very clear she can’t make her own decisions. Just such a sad process…
btw, my husbands previous wife who passed had early onset dementia and she was under hospice care so he’s no stranger to that. He kept her home and paid for 24hr care until she passed which was 5 years. She couldn’t talk/walk/feed herself etc. completely bed ridden.
I see from your more recent updates that last night you got together with Niece and Daughter.
This tells me that they are very much involved. And in my humble opinion you should step back now and let them intervene.
You mention Hospice. This lady, that I can see, has no life-limiting disease other than age. Hospice requires a diagnosis of disease of such severity that life expectancy is fewer than 6 months. It is very unlikely. At best Hospice today will give you weekly three baths, one RN for an hour a week (if that), a call from a social worker and a call from clergy. They are now a part of the military industrial complex and are for profit bought up by hedgefund money-making machines. So at best they will do not much.
Niece and Daughter are moving in right direction toward diagnosis. THEY should be guardian and should place the mother in care. You should resign your POA and step away in my humble opinion.
Whatever you decide, know that the opinions of the family is about all that counts here, and in a second they can go to court and accuse you of intervening in care of a helpless elder, thus taking guardianship, all your hard work of accounting for every single penny in and out of account going for naught. And you best have meticulous records as they can call you into court to prove you do at a moment's notice.
What do you say to her family? "I'm so glad you are here, and it makes me feel so much better that Petunia Rose will have her family with her to go through this difficult time." Then run. What to say to Petunia Rose: "It's wonderful that your family wants the best for you, and I know it will all work out." Then run. Practice the regretful expression, the wiping of a tear at the corner of your eye, and send flowers to Petunia Rose when she gets to her new abode. On the card: "Dearest Petunia Rose, congratulations on your new home! I'll be in touch right after I get back from Timbuktu next April. Love, Grull and family."
Seems like Grull wants to be in charge and will not let go.
I would be long gone, turn it over to the granddaughter and forget about it.
None of this makes sense to me.
This is an all too familiar story. What's starts out as a loaf of bread and a 1/2 gallon of milk, birthday cards, etc. leads into we're like a family in our neighborhood.
But...these things can escalate. I have lived in apartments for 25+ years. I have seen it all. Some of the stories are so sad, I can't believe it. Basically, it's adult children who do NOT want to behave as adults.
Usually a lot of these unwilling adult children are successful. So, if they can't be there in person, do something. Send you a gift card, put a check in the mail, pay your bill so you can have your land tilled. You get it.
Just because you started out doing a job doesn't mean you own it. I have witnessed neighbors come to my door with Tupper ware. They don't want to cook. I am a good cook, plus mother has to eat well, restaurant food is too expensive and unhealthy since it is loaded with salt. I cook from scratch, buy fresh vegetables, we just finished pot roast, carrot and potatoes. Who wouldn't want me for a neighbor but a lot of people in my generation are not taking caring of their parents. They say two words, "I work". End of story.
Due to proximity, you do build a rapport with people over time. You find out more about them, the family dynamics, who comes and who doesn't. I would not take this on. You are a great person to fly down to Florida, but make sure you don't end up being the bad guy.
Sounds like the person's needs have outgrown the present living situation. I would NOT take her in. You could get sued by the family and they could accuse you of misappropriation of funds, etc.
Phone calls, Skype, Christmas cards, etc. are the appropriate line drawn for this "neighbor" who is like family but is NOT family. Keep your ship afloat, you have gone above and beyond what any neighbor would do. You don't have the full story who the daughter is.
"No good deed goes unpunished".