Any advice greatly appreciated. My grandfather has been showing signs of dementia for a year or so now. My dad lives with him and does what he can. Recently he has gone down hill significantly. I am his POA and named on all of his affairs. However he never gave me a copy of the paperwork. A week ago today he left his home to get something to eat and was gone for hours, not answering his phone. 4 and a half hours later and 3 police/sheriff agencies we found him, 4 miles or so from his home, on the side of the road his car was wrecked and he had no idea where he was. He could hardly stand or walk and couldn't answer questions regarding what happened due to memory and word finding. His license was taking by the police. The insurance company is needing a copy of the POA paperwork so that I can take care of the car. He is fighting me saying I dont need the paperwork etc. He states he doesn't remember the lawyer who did the paperwork. Today got pretty heated. I am in desperate need of getting these papers not only for the car but mainly so that I can take care of him and his affairs. He does not bathe anymore - barely eats - has lost a lot of weight and has bladder issues but refuses any type of products to help with accidents. He hardly drinks throughout the day I think to avoid more bladder issues. Help!
How can I get this paperwork that I know exists?
I've called multiple lawyers no luck, His financial advisor, his bank, doctor, and hospital. No luck.
Tell him if he doesn’t do this, then the Govt will do it for him and charge his assets to take care of all his bills, care, everything in his life and where he lives. It’s true. He will become under the control of the Govt if you can’t find POA, which he probably through out, or he doesn’t sign new one with notary.
So get another POA immediately. Use online State Durable POA form. Make it effective immediately. Have him, and you sign it with his bank notary or other notary. Add other provisions to it if you want.
In the section marked "PoA and Executor".
We did not have the person we chose as PoA sign anything, but we spoke with her and she said she'd handle things, if the situation arises. She knows where all out documentation is and I would THINK that if your dad's will is in as huge a binder as ours is--it would be difficult to lose.
In my experience, the PoA kind of just slides into existence. When the need arises, the document could be pulled out and copied, the original returned to the file and then the PoA has a copy.
Both my YB's were PoA's for mom. Other than the younger of the two really made a big deal out of it--but the older one kept him in check.
And, even though we have done this work to set things up--we may very well change our minds. I am already thinking about appointing our son-in-law as executor. Dynamics change within a family and sometimes the person you thought would be the best choice, no longer is the best choice.
too many people misthinking getting a doctor to say he is incompetent helps them. It is the opposite. You need doctor signing statement thst he knows who his family is, knows his assets knows, what a will and POA are, knows consequences of his decision in assigning people to those estate planning documents. Then next step is to take patient or parent to notary to get POA for thst Stste signed and add j to it thst it is effective immediately. These rules are based on CA definition of competence for “probable and escape planning reasons.” Each State has own Probate Code.
Any chance he was computer literate enough to have something in an old email?
Good luck.
It needs to be drawn up by an attorney, and they notarize / authenticate it.
Please be sure on stating procedures here - especially considering different State requirements, as a response like this could create a lot of fear - for so many - who haven't filed their POA with the county / state.
Another issue that needs immediate attention:
* Getting GrDad medically evaluated for (in)capacitation [as] this is the first step to getting the legal authority needed to make decisions your gr-dad can no longer make.
* ASAP: Secure services of an attorney specializing in estate / elder trusts.
Gena / Touch Matters
Again, you need to seek help with the County, even the State of VA, where your grandfather lives.
You might start with a police report that documents his state of mind, the accident and that they took his license. Go get a consult with an attorney to find out if that's enough to establish incompetency to be over his affairs. If his child(ren) are living, it may have to be one of them.
You should ask all of his children if they have a copy of the will (and POA). Once he is deemed incompetent, he will not be able to write a new will. So that means, when his life is over a probate w/out will would have to be done and his leftovers would just be divided between the living children. If no children, then to siblings or grandkids, I'm sure.
You might ask him again about these documents. Remind him they took his license and w/out the license he can't get the car back, but if the two of you could find the POA, you would be able to help him get the car. Just tell him, insurance company wants to help him and wants to see that you were given permission to help him out.
I do question that you say you are POA, but never got a copy of the document. Have you ever handled any task for him as his POA...and how did you prove you were POA? Or did he just tell you you were, but never had to actually do any thing for him that required a POA?
Mine is in a notebook. So you might want to look for something bigger than an envelope.
Check where he would have his contacts - business cards, phone book.
Separate thought: How do you know if POA (or even a will) is the LAST one created?
If you don't know the law firm who did the POA and can't locate the document, your father (who is grandfather's next of kin) needs to go to the probate court in your town and petition for POA and conservatorship over your grandfather. Your father can tell them at the court that he refuses it and you can accept it. Go with him to the probate court. They will help you and your father.
Is your grandfather out of the hospital?
If he's not you and your father need to ask to speak to a social worker at the hospital and ask for a 'Social Admit'. Tell them that you both refuse to resume care for your grandfather until one of you gets appointed POA and conservator and that he is an unsafe discharge. They will keep him in the hospital until they find a nursing home for him to go to.
If you want to take care of him get conservatorship and when that's done let him come home. Or not.
Documents belong in a secured place in a residence instead of in a safety deposit box at the bank in case you cannot sign in for access. And, what if that branch closes??
For example, When I was designated primary POA, I kept all documents in a secured desk cabinet at home to help my mom. When it got too much for me to help her, I turned all care over to my brother who was the next POA to handle her affairs.
In addition, I was her Health Care Proxy, and Executor. Each year Mom and I would review the POA, HCP, will, and her obituary. We would both sign and date a form I prepared confirming our review. It brought piece of mind to me that she was OK with the decisions she had made. When she died at age 93, I had the legal documents in order, which made it a little easier to deal with her loss.
In your case, sadly, it sounds like there is no a POA out there to find. You note you are named as POA on all of his affairs, but with no proof, how can you be sure? Now is the time to check with your own attorney for guidance on how to proceed. I wish you well.
They should not run up a bill with elder specialty lawyers. They need to go to the probate court first and petition for conservatorship. The probate court will appoint a lawyer to represent the "interests" of the grandfather. They will not need to hire one for themselves if they have the necessary medical documentation and police records to show the grandfather's incompetence. The lawyer they appoint will have to be paid for by the grandfather's funds though.
All to say, you should really get the proper legal advice of an Elder Care and/or a Wills, Trusts and Estate lawyer licensed in your State. They will be able to provide you with what is or what is NOT required in your situation. Contact your State Bar Association or your local Area Agency on Aging to ask if they have the names of such attorneys who may help you.
The local Adult Protective Services may also be of help if resources are limited and it is just unsafe for your GPA to be on his own even if your father is there trying to "manage him." If there is no properly executed paperwork that can be found; it may be time to seek legal guardianship of him through the courts. This can take some time, but it may be the only recourse. APS and Elder Care lawyers may have to step in. In such case, the State would appoint an Elder Care attorney to represent your GPA and the State would also have their own to seek guardianship. You could be named as the guardian OR the State can appoint a lawyer to take on that task. The State would prefer that a close family member serve in this role, but make sure you (if you want this responsibility) are fully aware of all the tasks and paperwork that will be required. You would have a legal and fiduciary duty to handle all of his affairs and in "HIS" best interests. You would want your own legal advice on this if you are not completely aware of what all of this -- serving as his legal guardian -- involves.
When they won’t cooperate you have to do things without them knowing to protect them and their assets. The disease itself makes them incapable of understanding they need help. I have basically taken over my dad’s finances for the last 8 months or so and he has no idea the things I have done. I have put things on auto bill pay, removed CCs from him wallet leaving him just one, cancelled CC’s, frozen his credit, moved money from his account restricting how much he has access to, etc. it’s just easier to do it where you can and not even tell them. Out of sight, out of mind with this disease and if it avoids fights then all the better for everyone.
Now that I have a dementia diagnosis (late stage now) for mom, mom can't sign anything to designate POA.
For future info, if you ever do your own, see if you can file your papers in probate for a fee
He may settle a bit in a few days. He is most likely very stressed with all the recent events. Make sure he is not dehydrated and does not have a UTI. If you can’t get him to his primary for a checkup soon, you can get this checked out at an urgent care. Either can cause him to be more confused and less likely to remember and could have been the reason for his accident.
After he is calmer it is possible he can sign new paperwork if the old doesn’t appear. Notice the time of day when he is sharper. Make an appointment with an elder attorney with that timing in mind.
The attorney will want to speak with GD alone.
Usually a bank will allow him to have someone else listed on the account as long as he is with you when you go to the bank.
Did the police give you his license back? You might need that for ID.
its unfortunate you have to go the back route but I understand the desperation and aggravation.
We'd set up fPOA specific to specific banks more recently, the big POA has not needed to be activated yet.
Her car had the catalytic converter cut and all that stuff, etc, I was more than able to handle the car stuff just "speaking for" my mother. Went something like, "I am calling on behalf of my mother, who is currently on hospice with COPD and can't speak for long periods" stuff like that. Then all they needed from my mother was her hello, to confirm a piece of info or two, then her saying it is okay to speak to me. That was it.
There can be the chance that even in his state, this is his one last grab at his independence. It could be irrational or not, but with the cars, seriously, I still have my mom's car here. Sitting forlornly with a brand new CC that with my family's luck will likely also be nicked ;)