How can I plan for the care of my 40-year old son after my death?

Thanks for sharing more details about the bigger picture. I find the following comment very troubling, " He thinks you all aren't normal and that he is perfectly normal."

That is classic projection onto others what he wants to be in denial about himself. I'm sure you already know that.

At 375, he is enormous! Was he big as a child and in high school? If not, when did this weight gain begin to snowball if you remember?

Personally, I would wonder about depression related the weight gain and over all lethargy. I've experienced deep depression like that as part of my bipolar cycling.

Since your other children got out on their own, created their own lives evidently which must mean they made friends in school, had social skills, etc. So, I'm not sure geography explains it all. He sounds very introverted and that makes communication far more difficult in comparison in talking with an extrovert. I''m really guessing here, but he sort of sounds like someone with social anxiety. I could somewhat see where such anxiety like any anxiety could have led him to emotional eating which I've done myself at times.

The problem is that as adult, no one can force him to the doctor or to an evaluation. I don't have any idea how to wake him up out of his projection of his problems onto others.

I wish that I had some ideas on our to get you out of your frustrating situation. Maybe others do.

Zoom, I sympathize with you so much. Talk to a lawyer about setting up a trust that will support your son through his life, with any remainder going to your children who survive him. That would seem fair. I had a friend who was obese. She was very depressed and drank a lot of beer. She ultimately had a serious stroke, but lived through it. Seeing how my friend suffered, I have an idea what you are going through with your son. You want to make them well. You give them all kinds of suggestions and maybe they get counseling. It can be discouraging when it doesn't work.

Mothers often enable their children. No mother wants to see her child hit bottom. We can tell a mother not to enable -- it's easy to say when it's not our child. I can tell you feel guilty, like it is your fault for accepting his help. It is not your fault. If your son had wanted to be out in the world working, he would have been. I have a feeling that he chose to stay home. So it is not your fault.

I don't have any idea of how to fix this. My only thought was if your son had any field that he was good in, e.g. computers, that he used his brain instead of his body. I wonder if he developed a skill, would it lift his self esteem. I have a feeling getting rid of the depression and raising self esteem might help. (But I'm sure you've already tried this. Bless your heart.)

I don't see anything else you can do except the trust.

You broke my heart when you said you know you created this situation but you don't know how to get out of it. All I can do is feel for you. And your boy.

But here you are, 22 years later. What do you do?

All I can think of is: comfort yourself. Continue your life as you wish to. Let him be, let things happen.

When eventually you either change your own circumstances, by selling up and leaving, or have them changed for you by dying, the world will change for your son. Perhaps what you can let go of is hoping to create his future. I appreciate - and I expect they do too - that you want to protect your other children from any obligation towards their brother; but I have a feeling they'll do a better job of it than you, to be blunt; and I also have a feeling that once your protection is no longer an option he will stop relying on it and be more motivated to change. Your protectiveness, you see, ironically undermined your children's previous efforts - their brother had the option of resting mute and refusing to consider change. Sooner or later, he won't.

Well, I expect you've already pointed that out to him so clearly it hasn't changed his mind. But as things are he ignores his future and refuses to change because he can, and because it's easier. When he can't, which is going to happen, there will be change and he will have the option then of making the best of it or not.

If you want to be around to see (and perhaps support) positive changes, then you will have to remove yourself and remove from him the option of living with you. But you don't have to. You can admit defeat, you know, and still go to heaven. The worst that would happen then is that his wellbeing will be in the hands of Fortune, his siblings, whomever you have entrusted with what funds you are able to provide for him, and - critically - his own; and that wouldn't necessarily be a terrible fate.

On second thought, that wouldn't be the worst that could happen. The worst that could happen is that, given his physical condition, he has a stroke and becomes dependent on you for nursing care and *you go along with that* until you die, which will happen quite quickly. Make up your mind now, while it's not a crisis, that should he become dependent on physical care you will not take it on: you will place him in long term care. Otherwise you could end up throwing the rest of your life away.

OK. You have an unhealthy 375 male living on leftovers, pizza and video gaming, creating a toxic pit in your home, and you feel too guilty about the little bit of help he gave you while his father was ill to insist he engage in recovery instead of total passivity.

First, realize that given his severe obesity and sedentary living, he will be prone to health problems and at risk to die young. If he is not diabetic already, he has some lucky genes and may not die young enough to give you any chance of life without him; and his chance of needing skilled nursing care for an extended period of time is also very high. I know that is not want you want as his mom...yes, you are between even more rocks and hard places than you thought, because now not taking any action could "hurt," at least as much as any action you take.

If he is really unemployable, and now he may be (though lots of people who are obese are very good employees at any number of things) then he may qualify for disability income. That would help you financially, maybe, but it might also be the last nail in the coffin of him ever recovering from his poor physical and mental health (specifically diagnosed or not, his health is NOT good) and overcoming inertia. You know, his considering himself normal is totally irrelevant, and the psychologists had to know that too. Were they maybe trying to tell you that you really had to do something different, because your son otherwise has zero incentive to change???

You have an option that has not been mentioned here yet. Apply for guardianship. He gets papers saying he may contest the guardianship. He can choose to contest it or he can let you take it; if you have it, you could insist on him getting fully evaluated and sent to a vocational rehab program, and if he contests it and is found to be a competent adult, you evict him or move.

My children's nanny had to do that with one of her sons. She felt sorry for him and babied him because they lost his dad at what she felt was a vulnerable age, and she remarried. She could not evict him from the trailer home they had for some reason, and he also became threatening and abusive to her when she tried to make changes. She had basically created an entitled monster. The solution was she got herself together, and moved herself and her husband to a new home without him. I don't know that she would have found the courage to do that if her husband had not become ill from COPD and needed a healthier situation. It was not without risk, and you have to assess that risk as any abused woman would have to, but it needed to be done.

And yes it is true that any funds you choose to leave him have to be in a trust, special needs or otherwise - but PLEASE do not neglect your other children who have stood on their own two feet when you make those estate planning decisions because their resentment will be both fierce and justified. .

I am sorry for harshness, but nothing will change unless you change it. Your first job is to find someone help you get to that point where you can act and stop being immobilized by guilt that you are wearing like a saddle. It is not in your OR your son's best interest to let him keep riding on you and you know it in your heart. You did it for as long as you did out of hope, out of love, but now you can see where it is leading, and it is nowhere good. Forgive yourself, forgive him, but free yourself up to ACT in your best interest - and his - now.

Dear Zoomhelp9,

Well, we have been very hard on you and you have not run away. You have read carefully and thought things over. I am glad you have taken the time to bring us up to speed. Thank you for that.

It sounds like you and your other children understand this situation very well.

But that doesn't really help, does it? You and your son are in the same situation.

furthermore, it looks like we can safely say that there are only three things you haven't tried:

1. YOU going to a therapist, and

2. Forbid video games (or whatever it is he plays) on your property--not in the house, garage, or yard. At this stage, he is addicted to them and they are killing him. Take it all away and throw it off a bridge.

3. Evicting your son (or a nicer verb, if you prefer.)

Now let us recap: so far everything has left you and your son in the same sad state. But there are still three things left to try.

Why don't you try the first two for starters. What have you go to lose at this point? You might actually get his attention. Your therapist can help you though it.

ZoomHelp9,
I actually have a different take on your matter. Since so much time has passed, why not just accept the situation? How likely is it that your son is going to change when he has no real incentive to change. You have a longstanding history of enabling him and not requiring him to do anything. Why would you suddenly have the willpower now at this stage of your life? I just don't see it or why you need such a challenge now. This should be a time of enjoyment in your life, not struggling with getting a grown man to seek therapy, socialize, lose weight, exercise, etc. I know how moms are with their baby boys and tough love at this point, isn't going to happen. Why torture yourself with this dilemma?

Unless he is harming you or costing you too much money, I might just accept it. I would seek a consultation with an attorney who specializes in Estates and drafting Special Needs trust. Only then can you decide if that is an option. It varies by state, but I don't know if your son would qualify. If it isn't an option, then leave a regular Will, being fair to all the kids. Even if you don't leave a Will, your property will pass through intestacy and be divided equally between your kids, assuming you aren't married. At this point, son will know you are not in charge and that others are not going to enable him. Then, he may get motivated.

I would make sure I had appointed my POA and Healthcare POA. Don't appoint this son! Let's hope the POA will make sound decisions and not be as enabling of son, if they should have to ever act on your behalf, say if you become disabled, sick, infirmed, etc. You could need a nursing home or assisted living down the road and son could not come along. Let the POA deal with it when deciding where he goes, does he stay there and pay the utility bills? Will the house be sold? Let them deal with it. Hopefully, they will have the constitution to get real and he will take notice and get real himself. He knows you won't do anything so, why play a game about it?

Most Powers of Attorney allow the person acting to receive a fee for their time. So the person you appoint will get some reimbursement for dealing with your son.

vstefans brought up a very good point that I had been pondering. Zoomhelp, your son weighs 375 lbs and is in constant danger of having a stroke, becoming disabled, or dying. There is a good chance that he may end up needing skilled care, which is a consideration since he is probably a dependent on tax forms. Your income and resources will probably be the ones considered if he needs to apply for aid. There is also a good chance that you could outlive your son, so you don't want to do anything that can't be readily reversed. This is a tough situation.

I had a brother who was a serious alcoholic. He wasn't able to keep a job. My mother gave him and his wife money to help them pay bills and, of course, buy more liquor. We would tell her not to do it, that she was hurting him and not helping, but she couldn't stop. She couldn't watch them and their children go without. (The wife also didn't work most of the time.)

Finally the wife had enough of the drinking and the abuse that went with it and left. My brother hit bottom. Nobody wanted him. There was no way to help him. And it got to the point that no one cared really except my mother, who still tried to help him the only way she knew how -- money. Ultimately, they found him lying dead in bed. Sad thing is that everyone was relieved, because no one knew what to do about him. At 57 yo, he had burned up all good will.

I think about if maybe things could have been different if someone had let him hit bottom at 40, or at least had tried to help him in some constructive way. Maybe. As it was, my mother enabled him to continue the self destructive path he was on that cost him his jobs, his marriage, his family, and his life. I know that wasn't good.

I did not know how much money she had given him over the years until I started shredding old paperwork. It was staggering. She gave him $5-20K each year for almost 20 years. No wonder my father came to hate my brother so! They were housing a feeding a man who would be able to work if he would just stop drinking.

I guess a big question is what can you do, ZoomHelp? When I think about it, I don't know if a trust for your son would be any more helpful that one for my brother would have been. I do wish your son would work with you in finding an answer on what to do.

zommhelp,

What sunny girl says is true. You can do nothing. That is a real option.

But it won't change the situation. You are unhappy now and will continue to be.

Why not try to do something you haven't tried. What have you got to lose?

1. Try a support group FOR YOURSELF. Codependants anonymous or alanon might be useful...(and funded only by member donations, like a dollar a meeting or what you can afford). Accepting that your son has no interest in changing right now will give you peace of mind. What does he think will happen to him if you died, moved, decided to sell the house and get a studio etc? He may not have a plan...however...if tou want to get him thinking about his possible real life optuons, find the address of the local homeless shelters, food banks, county welfare office, etc, and leave that, both for him, and a copy with your estate plan, so your POA has it as well. Take care of your own needs right now, and don't worry so much about the future. If he cant be put on a guardianship, he can be referred by the county to a local care home or rooming house, where he will probably coninue his gaming.

Zom, I think that the first course of action for you should be to find yourself a good therapist. Ultimately, YOU are the one who is in pain over this situation. Easing your distress sufficiently may allow other solutions to appear.

I've been following this because I'm interested in what can be done to help someone with unacknowledged mental health issues, it seems to me the answer is "very little". We've done all we can to get our family member launched, thankfully with our assistance he has a job and bought a house, but he lacks any initiative to care for himself and blames everyone else for problems of his own making. He'll sit without food all weekend because he won't bother to go out to the store, he quit paying his phone bill because he couldn't figure out how to download the new app and can't access his online banking and e mail accounts because he forgot his passwords. When he was in school the psychologists only seemed to focus on ADD, which he clearly doesn't have, but came up with no other diagnosis or help (with my research on line I wonder about the possibility of aspergers).
Sorry, I running on, I just wanted to say I understand how heartbreaking it is to have someone that can't/won't take care of themselves. I wish there was a solution that could "fix" him, but I'm afraid unless he recognizes he has a problem it will never happen.

This is codependency. I am not implying that he is a user, though your comment "he would spend the money (you gave him) quickly" is not normal.  Are you sure that he doesn't need a psychiatrist, who can prescribe meds to help him?

375#? Can he connect with a church, which would enable him to make friends? At this age, it's going to be hard for him to learn social skills, but worth a shot!

My daughter's FIL was running about 425#, sedentary lifestyle, other ailments, 66 years old when he suffered a 7 CENTIMETER hemorrhagic stroke; he deceased.

Get your son help for weight loss before he meets an early demise!

I'd like to add my two cents, from the perspective of your other children. Right now you're still completely capable of taking care of yourself and making your own decisions on how you handle your son. While my MIL let her grown son mooch unmercifully, and willingly put out tens of thousands of dollars for his pleasures, everyone else simply backed away when she wouldn't listen to cautions. Now she is 85, he is 55 and still lives with her, but she has Alzheimer's. My husband is POA and his greatest difficulty in seeing to her care is dealing with his brother and his sticky fingers with regard to everything she has, and his continued living off of her. The only way he would leave at this point is if he had another free offer. He lost his job because of irresponsibility a few years ago and draws disability, as he too has had major surgery and at 5'5" is nearly 300 lbs. With only paying for his own prescriptions and car insurance, he still never has money left by the end of the month, even with his free ride at his mother's. So if your children are urging you to do something about your son and have constructive ideas, and better yet would intervene on your behalf, I'd listen. It's their lives you'll be affecting once you're gone or unable to care for your son any longer.

Interesting. Just yesterday i heard someone (about 50 yrs. old) tell the story of her own years "not launching." she was so irresponsible that her father had to pick her up from work on the day she got her paycheck and make sure that she paid her rent and bills. Finally, he went to a group and after a few years said, "I am letting you go with love."

She was on her own. And didn't pay the rent or the bills and got evicted and had a horrible life. But, but...

She finally decided that she hated her new horrible life and that it was time to get it together. So, after many, many months of struggling, she did, and is now working in a hospital and studying to be a nurse and is happy.

Zoomhelp, Start with today. Take a spa vacation with your son where they can teach you to lose weight. (Maybe a health resort type rehab is available and partially covered by insurance). Maybe he will like it there, and you could leave and pick him up in about 6 months. He may start feeling better about himself.
Wouldn't you think it more loving to prepare him for life today than leave him the money? It only seems impossible, but when it was time for a loved one to get a job, it took 3 people to assist. Maybe you are not up to it, I can understand that.
You could try hiring someone to come and visit him 3x a week. Then ask him to go places. Then become a trusted friend. Then, who knows what may happen?
Too bad a sibling cannot do this for him without judging and making it harder for your son.
I have advocated for someone with asperger's, it is a full-time job with little progress, until one day, the person's life starts to work. There are times when it's not working, and after taking a break, you must try harder to keep the person functioning. You may be criticized and undermined for your efforts on his behalf.
He needs more than you as his advocate. Hire a team if you must.

Again, I appreciate your time, expertise, and shared life experiences. It helps me to read others' ideas and thoughts. Yes, my other children have taken me to a therapist, but I feel that he only asked me why I was enabling my son. I didn't have a rational answer and he said that he couldn't help until I was willing to evict my son. As those of you who follow this thread are aware, if I had the strength to evict him, I would have years ago.

Your responses have made me consider guardianship. I have had many, many conversations with my son regarding what he thinks will happen when I am gone. Predictably, he offers no response. I have shared with him that I will one day need to sell the house, but it doesn't seem to concern or rouse him in the least. My other kids have all said neither of them wants to take him in, which I understand is coming from a point of anger, rightfully so. In fact, each of them have offered him work in exchange for room and board, but he just shakes his head "no". Again, I believe this is his defense mechanism. My son has always been a quiet person. He did graduate from high school and has a driver's license. These factors contribute to why I cannot get any county or state services for him. He has also been overweight, but I do admit that the significant weight has been added in the last 10 years. He actually lost quite a bit of weight while in the rehab hospital, but has gained it all back in the last 8 months. I have thought that maybe there is some issue regarding the death of his father, but, as I said, when my husband was living, they didn't share any special bond. My other children even mentioned this to the evaluating psychologists and they said that they did question my son about his father, but they didn't see it as a defining impact on the status of my son's life.

I am doubtful that my son would sign a guardianship. Although he is perfectly happy to sit at home with no car, no money, no computer (I take my laptop with me everyday.) no friends, and no responsibilities, I don't think he would give decision-making rights to me or anyone else. I, too, was concerned for a time about possible drug abuse, but he has tested negative during all physical exams. He has no money of his own and no transportation. I also keep track of things around the house and property to make sure he's not selling anything.

I do NOT claim him as a dependent on my taxes because I wanted him to qualify for medical assistance, which he did. I am concerned, though, that if I leave him his portion of money at my death that it would be counted against him and he would lose his medical assistance.

I have spoken to a lawyer about a trust. Two lawyers have told me that unless it is for over a million dollars that a trust is not worth it. Believe me, I have WAY less than a million dollars!! One of my daughters-in-law told me that she thinks that my son may have a legal interest in my home because it has been his "home" for many years and it cannot just be sold out from under him. Has anyone heard of this legality? I honestly think that my son is so out of sync with reality that he believes that he could go on living here even if I wasn't here. He just doesn't understand about taxes, insurance, heating oil, etc., even though I have talked to him many times about home responsibilities.

I've tried to keep only minimal amounts of food in the refrigerator and nothing in the freezer so that he will understand that these things are limited and must be paid for. We don't have cable tv, no air conditioning, no satellite tv, and no home internet connection. I just cannot understand why a 40-year old would want to continue living like this, but that is my problem. I don't know how to help him to see what his life has become in a way that won't make him shut down more than he already is. I've had my pastor come to the house several times to invite him to church, but he refuses.

In my head, I recognize that my son's unresponsiveness is how he continues to live the way he does without having to make changes. I guess that I am going to have to get my children to help me find a willing team of professionals as many of you have suggested, that can hopefully motivate him. Your words have given me more to consider. Thank you.

Zoom, I'm not sure where in Maryland you live, if you are in a place where there might be more than one lawyer, one therapist, etc.

Your children took you to a therapist who said he wouldn't /couldn't help you until you were prepared to evict your son??? Didn't that strike you as odd? Unhelpful ? Did you think to challenge that? Or try to find another therapist?

You went to a lawyer who says it's not worth doing a trust if you have less than a million dollars? Really?

Zoom, either you are not hearing what these folks are saying accurately, or you are surrounded by incompetence.

Take some small action today. Call another therapist/psychiatrist. Tell them you want to talk about the unhappinesses in your life and how to find some joy. Call a realtor and invite her/him over to discuss what preparation you would need to do to sell your house, and what it would sell for. Ask her for the name of a lawyer she uses. Call THAT lawyer and find out how to start eviction proceedings. That lawyer will be able to tell you if your son has any "rights" to the house (I can't imagine he does).

You seem like a lovely, but extremely passive person. In the same way that your son is. I don't believe that you WANT to change the status quo;your original question was, I realize, not about how to change this situation, but how to enable your son after your death.

Thus, saddling your other children with figuring out your care if you become ill, but also saddling them with their apparently not disabled brother. In their shoes, I'd be really, really angry, not just at him, but as you as well.

Thanks for sharing all of this.

I wonder though. If you "didn't have a rational answer" for enabling, then is there possibly an emotional answer?

Have your children proposed any ideas for why he's been allowed to just sit around the house, eat "bom boms" and play video games for 20 years? I think if I were one of them, I would have gone to a therapist to try to understand what is possibly going on here.

Zoom, with regard to VStefanS post about Guardianship; your son would HAVE to respond. He would either have to sign for you to be his guardian (which would make you legally responsible for him and his needs) or he would have to answer in surrogate's court why he was competent to be responsible for himself. In my view, it would be far better to get someone OUTSIDE the family appointed his guardian. I believe you would talk to someone with a specialty in family law about this.

But only if you are interested in changing the situation.

Having read this thread, I see one idea not yet discussed...it might not work for you, but then again, it might... Sell your property and home. Move in to a 1 bedroom or studio apartment for a year, preferably near one of your other children. Junior will have to move out when the new owners take over. If necessary, get a restraining order against junior at the time that you move, so that he cannot be near your apartment. Stay in the apartment until junior stabilizes in his new life. No, he cannot: visit you there, have a key, have the code, stay the night, etc, etc, etc. See him at a park or restaurant. Would that work for you perhaps?

Zoom,

I commend you for taking all of those important things away. You are right. The loss of those should motivate him.

You are brave and dauntless. God bless you and good luck. Keep us posted.

The issue of the sibling relationship has been raised, but needs to be recognized in a post death situation as well. From what I've read, I can't see any of the siblings taking responsibility for the 40 year old. And why should they? I think they would be entirely within their sanity and rights to just abandon him.

Hi, Zoom, please read Babalou's answer above and take one small step now; not tomorrow, now--write down the steps you will take and do the first one. Once you take the first small step and then the next, you will start to feel better about yourself and that will give you the strength to go on. One step at a time....one step at a time. You can do it!

It has been said that the best way to understand your own darkness is to understand the darkness of others. Your self -assessment of inability to change is very similar to your son's. You might be more able than you think. I can't even think of how many times on my journey with my parents decline and demise, and now with my husband and young adults, I have had to repeat to myself the admonition that "you must do the thing you think you cannot do." When you have been doing something wrong for a long time it is so hard to break through the inertia as well as the guilt feelings but then you kind of let go and do it anyways... This is from experience, believe me. Something made you write to us now, maybe that something could be the catalyst for you too.