Is it legal for my mother who has extreme (at times) signs of dementia care for an infant?

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Is it legal for my mother who has extreme (at times) signs of dementia care for an infant?

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My mother has watched many of her grandchildren throughout the years and now wants to watch the youngest great-grandchild who is only a few months old. When told no, she cries and gets upset until her mother gives in. This is extremely upsetting to some of us. She is now watching the infant. Is this even legal?

Alzheimer's & Dementia Elder Law Home Safety Relationships

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There's 'nothing we can do' insofar as forcing your mother to go to the doctor or get care for her dementia, or even a diagnosis, if she flat out refuses. That's true. BUT, there certainly IS something the mother of the infant can do about not letting the woman babysit 'all day long' for the baby, for godsake! Have we all lost our minds here? You say, "I am in disbelief that my sister is allowing her granddaughter to be watched all day by her. It’s terrifying to me what could happen." It's up to the child's MOTHER to say NO about the demented great grandmother babysitting, not your sister.

Maybe you are just getting the wrong information here b/c it's really too much to believe any mother in her right mind would allow an elder with extreme dementia to 'babysit an infant all day long'. It IS against the law as others have pointed out, it's called child endangerment, and if this is truly happening, the mother of the infant has to be reported for it. The child can die and the mother will go to prison for it, in reality, for knowingly hiring a babysitter who has extreme dementia!

Put it to her like that (the baby's mother), and say that YOU will report her to the authorities for CHILD ENDANGERMENT and see what she has to say!

It's mind boggling to me that nobody has the cajones to stand up to a demented elder and would rather put her infant's LIFE at risk instead! Appalling.

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Something bad is going to happen to this baby. Please find someone else who has experience and is normal. Everyday is different with a individual who has Alzheimer/Dementia. They can seem fine but in a split second can really do something off the wall. This is really dangerous for such a young infant, please find a daycare or a baby sitter. If something happens to this baby the infants mother will be thrown in jail including your mother too!

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No.

It's called "child endangerment," and it's a crime.

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I saw where an 80 year old woman gets drug babies from the Foster care system, because she can sit and rock and comfort these babies for days, she gets them through their withdrawals after birth. So an octogenarian can safely care for a newborn baby, for short stints and in the absence of illness of their own. This isn't the case with your mom.

I would ask my siblingsand my niece and her husband, how they would feel if great Grammy dropped dead five minutes after taking the baby for the day, fell on the baby and smothered her to death. Would they really be able to live with themselves?

I would ask the two in the medical field what they would tell a patient that was faced with the same situation and I would ask them what part of mandated reporter do they not understand? They not only have a moral obligation but a legal obligation to report situations that are obviously dangerous to vulnerable people, in this case there are 2 vulnerable individuals that are being put at risk by their lack of professionalism, I would turn them in if they don't act.

This baby is the most important person in this situation and everyone involved with knowingly and willingly putting her at risk should be made fully aware that they will be held accountable for anything that happens and you are going to do everything in your power to protect the baby proactively, so they can fix it or deal with the authorities, those are their choices.

I had to report my brother and his wife for child abuse and endangerment. I was told they were going to behead me, okay, as long as your babies are protected I am willing to die on that hill. Someone has to stand up for those without a voice. You know what is going on, so you are now responsible to stop the unsafe situation. As difficult as it is, you can't step back and hope nothing happens with someone that has dementia and extreme instances to boot.

Please call Department of Child Safety and Adult Protective Services and protect this baby and your mom. She can be prosecuted if anything happens to that baby. Does anyone really want to visit her in a facility for the criminally insane at the end of her life? That's where she would go if she hurts that baby and in prosecuted and found guilty. Does anyone really want to bury a tiny baby because there were no responsible adults in her life? And that isn't the worse case scenario.

Please do the right thing for these 2 very vulnerable people.

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Rocking a newborn under the supervision or hospital or child welfare staff is not the same as taking care of it.
You're spot on about reporting on this dangerous situation though.
The parents of this baby would be held responsible if something terrible happened to it. The elderly mother with dementia is not responsible because she's out of it and incompetent. She should not be living alone.

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Barbara, it is true that if she hasn't been declared incompetent and no one holds POA for finances and health, there isn't much that anyone can do that is straightforward.

Some folks tell parents their home needs to be fumigated/repaired and get them into AL or memory care for a "temporary" stay.

We created a fiction that my mom was going to Independent Living "just for the winter " since she lived in an isolated area that was hard to get to for us and for aides. By spring, she was happily settled and never talked about "home" again.

In your shoes, I would call both Child Protective Services and Adult Protective Services and discuss all the ramifications of this issue.

I hope to heavens you're incorrect and they are just letting her "watch" the baby with other carers nearby.

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it is called child endangerment and yes it is illegal. The mom should simply say no or if she cannot say no, she must not put herself in a situation where she reluctantly agrees. Her priority is the health and well-being of her baby, not her grandmother’s feelings.

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Legally, likely dubious. In practice, it will likely end in disaster.

Completely unsafe situation. Tell your sister to (wo)man up and put her foot down before grandma inadvertently injurers or kills the child.

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Barb1861

Looks like you got your answers for your family to read. I hope they see the light.

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“ Extreme at times” is a TOTAL red flag!!! What if great gram forgets the baby is in the house and leaves , or forgets to turn the stove off and causes a fire, or… makes the baby bottle too hot and burns her/ him, or… forgets to feed or change baby, or…. Drops the baby ?? Hard to believe that this is even a question. The fact that she cry’s when told “ no” is an indicator of her competence.if clear headed, she would accept that this is not the best thing for a little infant. Wishing you the best and the strength to make the “ proper” decision for baby’s safety. ❤️

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The question is: what is the right thing to do? It is obvious to me that whether legal or not, the right thing to do is never leave a baby/child under supervision of someone obviously not able.

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I refused to leave my three year old child with my parents because of my mom's denial about her diabetes. She was rushed to the hospital by ambulance. She decided she would just stop testing because it wasn't really diabetes. I had to confront her. Her eyes filled with tears and she said she would never hurt my child. If she got in trouble my child could call 911. A 3 year old??
Poor poor baby. Who is running the show?

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Grandma is manipulating her grandchild, let her cry, the mother needs to protect her child, what she is doing can turn into child endangerment and the parent of the child will be responsible.

No, is a complete sentence someone needs to stand up to grandma. Dementia is tricky can escalate at any time...actually from day to day.

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Here is an old thread on this subject:

https://www.agingcare.com/questions/are-children-and-babies-safe-with-an-alzheimer-s-patients-140422.htm?orderby=oldest&_gl=1*f66vgh*_ga*YW1wLUFRNUVqODV2YzJ3SW4tODhnMVB4cFFvcWw2Rk5CbGFBR29RRFMxSFhiWTd1RzVsUlpEbk1FQW02blVGaHd6NHI.

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It doesn't sound like your mother is getting the level of care she needs.

Is everyone else in the family afraid of her?

Have you considered a call to Child Protective Services to discuss?

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I agree. 2 of my siblings that are involved in her healthcare are actually in the medical field, which makes this all the more frustrating. I’ve implored them to get her help but they have said it’s nearly impossible legally to do anything if she does not want it. So they focus on appeasing her and giving in to her wants no matter how ridiculous. I think she needs to be in assisted living but no one else is on board. Since I’ve been ostracized, I’m only getting information second hand. It’s probably worse than what’s been repeated. I am in disbelief that my sister is allowing her granddaughter to be watched all day by her. It’s terrifying to me what could happen.I approached this initially as a question of legality in the hopes there would be some comment or advice given that I haven’t thought of that could be used to undermine the reasons given so far as to why there’s “nothing we can do”.

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Up till now, I thought the worst scenario I'd heard was allowing an elder with dementia to drive a car b/c he threw a tantrum. Now THIS one tops them ALL! If this were my infant, I'd tell my mother she could cry and carry on until the cows came home but she was STILL not going to babysit my infant, not w/o me in the room at ALL TIMES. Period.

Go on eBay and buy grandma a realistic looking baby doll to carry around and 'feed' and wrap in a blanket. When it comes to real live, breathing children, absolutely NO WAY should an elder with dementia be allowed to care for him or her. It's not safe, and everyone knows that.

Who cares about 'legal'? It's the same thing with demented elders driving cars. Who cares about 'having the DMV take away their drivers' license.' I advocate for disabling the car so they CANNOT drive it. That ends the discussion in its tracks.

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Exactly! Unbelievable!

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Know one will listen to you until something happens. To be honest, I don't think I would allow a competent 85 yr old to care for my child for 8 hrs a day. A baby and a toddler take a lot of energy even for young mothers let alone an 85 yr old. Add to that a person suffering from Dementia which is a disease that is unpredictable. Are the extremes during late afternoon? This is when Dementia really shows its ugly head.

If she has meds, then she has been diagnosed? If there has been, I may talk to her doctor and tell him what is going on. If he agrees she should not be watching an infant, ask if he could write up a letter that in his professional opinion your Mom is not capable of taking care of an infant or a child at all.

Mom lived with me for a couple of years. We would take her with us to dinner. She wanted hot tea and the hot water was brought in a small metal tea pot. Before this day, she had no problem pouring the water in the cup. I am not kidding you it was like slow motion watching as my Mom picked that pot up and turned it upside down so the top fell open and hot water poured out. TG our food had not been served yet. TG we were quick with the napkins and wiped up the water before it ended in her lap. What was she thinking when she turned it upside down, we will never know.

Now, what if ur Mom gets the idea the baby needs a bath? Makes the water too hot or leaves the baby in the sink or tub? Or picks up the baby with suds all over it and drops it? You don't want "until something happens" thing to be the baby.

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Grandma or great grandma hasn’t been “officially diagnosed”? If this is the case I can see how family members who aren’t with her a lot and haven’t really witnessed dramatic behavior that’s worrisome might be fooled. My mom is well along the journey and can rise to an occasion (or person/visit) quite well so let’s not be too hard on a grand daughter who is a new inexperienced mother and needs help letting the grandmother who probably helped raise her watch her child. That said the very fact that the grandmother cries and carries on to get her way (and it works) in effect behaves like a little child seems like an indication there is probably good reason not to leave her alone with the infant. The granddaughter is being placed in an impossible position and it does seem like her mother (your sister?) should be the one to help her out. What would she be doing with the baby if great grandma wasn’t watching her (not sure where I got the feeling the child was a girl…)? Could your sister the baby’s grandmother watch her grandchild at her mothers house so both GM and Great GM could enjoy this precious time with the infant (they grow so fast and all)? Rather than saying no to GGM because she isn’t capable maybe various excuses for why the badly is going somewhere else or some other alternative. GGM has had her turn watching her grandchildren now it’s your generations turn to enjoy grand babies and grand nieces and nephews.

It may also be necessary to make sure your sister and her daughter are aware of the things that have happened that have you concerned about Moms mental status, do they know about the accusations Mom made about you sneaking in to steal pictures, what are some of the other things that alone could be written off to a one time thing but cumulatively say it’s time to follow this more closely, visit more often and get all the medical and legal ducks in order? Start pulling everyone together with mild concerns about Mom so you aren’t caught off guard instead of alienating family members and Mom by making accusations. Concern not accusation, looking for things that might be helped rather than things to take away.

Ultimately however this is up to your niece her husband and maybe her mother to decide and as long as you have been open and honest with details and maybe not even in the context of GM taking care of children, there isn’t much you can do. Calling officials will only create huge rifts in the family at a time when you need more bonding and working together and very likely go un-corrected, especially if mom presents as a kind old lady with all or most of her faculties. In my opinion anyway. Good for you trying to protect both this new family bundle of joy and your mother though, it could be more detrimental to your mom if there were some scare wether the baby is actually hurt or not in her care and that’s also important. Good luck

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Thank you for your thoughtful insight! I appreciate it very much! 🙂

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No way! I also question the rationale of the mother to leave her baby with this g-grandmother. Seriously the adults are afraid of upsetting granny? Really what if something happens to the baby then who will be upset and blaming who? This is endangering a child simply put. Tell granny NO - let her throw a temper tantrum which confirms she is unfit.

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Maybe they are looking to save money on childcare! I say a hard NO on her watching the baby, Heck I'm only 64, but I know my limits and I am not all that steady on my own feet!

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I think it is ultimately the mother of the infants decision but I would ensure she is aware of the severity of the situation. My own mother had a brain injury which caused early dementia and I refused to leave my own kids with her. The one time I did ask her to watch them while I took a shower, I came out to find my 1 year old son had climbed behind the TV and was playing with the wires. My mother thought that was perfectly safe. She also forget or disregarded any rules I had asked her to follow and I was always close so could deal with it. I would have never left my kids alone as I knew it wasn't safe.

Personally, I question any mother who would leave there child in any situation where there is even a remote chance of unintentional harm or injury. I think this is a situation where something serious could happen and best dealt with now.

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Thankyou for sharing that hard situation.

I bet others didn't understand why you didn't let your own Mom babysit.. but I get it. (I also had to say no to family members).

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Maybe grandmother would appreciate caring for one of those realistic baby dolls they have for people with dementia.

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In our heart of hearts, we want the generations to be 'close'--but sometimes, that simply cannot be accomplished.

My daughters won't even let their dad (who is a fit 70 and mentally fine) watch their kids, b/c he is so easily distracted by other stuff. Also, refuses to wear hearing aids and so he does not HEAR the kids.

I tend ALL THE TIME. But the enormous difference is that I can HEAR, I don't get into my phone and ignore the kids and I also bring activities or games we can play.

So, I wouldn't even leave HIM with a baby, and he's 'fine'. To leave a baby or toddler would be tantamount to abuse.

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Barbara1861, sounds like you wish you could find something in writing that would say that a person, who has extreme signs of dementia, cannot take care of an infant/child. That way you could present this to the great-grandchildren's parents to show that your Mom is no longer able to care for any age child.

Try this link and call to get the information on the question you had asked us. Hopefully they will have some guidance. https://chfs.ky.gov/agencies/dail/Pages/caregiversupport.aspx

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It may be legal but certainly not prudent. It could be considered child endangerment. There are legal penalties, including jail time, for a parent who endangers a child. Child protective services needs to be called, and the possibility of the infant being put in a foster home is real.

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Use this (desire to babysit) as a reason to get your mother officially diagnosed. Then you can tell your mother and the mother of the baby that the DOCTOR said no and you can address the hysterics with the doctor.
Does anyone have a POA for your mom? I would get that done ASAP.
I imagine there are many many grandmas with dementia babysitting in this crazy world legal or not.

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This is a Great idea!

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No. Just no.

I don't need to do a risk assessment - I mean even if only once in 100 times it goes wrong..

Come on!

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The mother gives in. Lol tell mom of infant to grow a pair and stop being manipulated by a demented elder. She would never forgive herself if something happened to her baby under moms care.

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Amen to that, sp19690. Who would put their own baby in danger to humor someone? God help us all.

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The real problem is the person with dementia is unpredictable. My father, shortly after his diagnosis of vascular dementia, and at a time the family considered the biggest impact to be on his mood and the cause of his anxiety attacks (his blood pressure would rise and he would call an ambulance every week or so) decided to dump pool chlorine with the algae ridding poisons into the house well. Fortunately my mother smelled the chlorine in the water she was running to wash the breakfast dishes and no one consumed it. It took almost 6 months for the well to be fit to use again. Anyone who consumed as much as 1/2 cup of the poisoned water would have died.

No one knows what a demented mind may decide to do next. The brain is broken and while the bad decisions are usually benign, sometimes they are leavimg a stove on or deciding to cut a string with a butcher knife. Don't chance a young and defenseless life on her ability to take proper care; she may be physically capable but the mental acuity is questionable.

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Holy crap that is insane.

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I can't believe the infant's mother allows this because because grandma threw a tantrum. I will go as far as to say if the infant has a mother who is so reckless that she'll let an elder with dementia babysit because they threw a fit when told no, then that is an unfit mother. The infant should no longer be in her custody because she is incompetent and the child is at risk.
What a question to ask. "Is it legal for my mother who has extreme (at times) signs of dementia care for an infant?"

I truly hope you are a troll and only asking such an asinine question to get a rise out of anyone who sees it.

If you're not a troll but an actual person who truly wants to know then I'll tell you.

No. It is not legal to let an elderly person with extreme (at times) dementia care for an infant. A person like this cannot care for themselves. It is also not legal to let a five-year-old drive a car (just in case this question comes up and it very well could if you're asking this one). This is child abuse and neglect. It is also risk of injury to a minor and could be reckless endangerment too. These are not only illegal, they are often felony crimes. Parents lose custody of their children for crimes like these. So yes, it is illegal.
I'm not going to tell you off for the fact that you would even ask such a question. For the sake of that poor infant, PLEASE stop letting your demented mother care for it.
Ignore her crying and tantrums. Tell her that no one cares about her crying and tantrums, she is not baby-sitting. Do whatever you have to do to get that baby out of her care. For God's sake please have a word with that baby's mother today. If she refuses to stop letting dementia grandma babysit, the next time the baby is left with her, send the police to your mother's house.
Get your mother a doll. They don't bleed or die if they get injured.

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No, I’m not an internet troll. This is a real situation. I completely agree with you. One of my sisters and I are the only ones who are completely against this. It’s ridiculous to think one has to even ask a question such as the one I put forth, but I’m hoping to share the answers with my other sister, who is the grandmother of the child in question to truly understand from not just my viewpoint how completely crazy it is to have our mother babysit, but to see many others who conclude the same. Our mother lives alone and vehemently opposes any discussion or viewpoint that she is not mentally fit. She is not aware she is ill. She has medication that she refuses to take because again, she does not think she is sick. I myself have not talked to her in over a year over an argument we had where she thought (completely incorrect) that I was “breaking into her home at night and taking pictures out of frames”. Ridiculous I know but this is what is happening. She has made such a fuss over watching her great grandchild, that my sister, the child’s grandmother has given in and just lets her watch her. This is an 8+ hour day. I have talked to my sister and my brother in great length as to the healthcare I think our mother needs but they said that she wants to stay at home and refuses to leave so they are not upsetting her. We’ve had several arguments over this and nothing has been resolved. It’s frightening to me that a child is in her care. No one else seems concerned. 😳

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Personally I would not allow a person that has been diagnosed with dementia to watch my child.
BUT in all honesty this is the decision that the mom makes. So unless you are the mom in question it is her decision.
As to the legality.
I just did a quick search. In my State (Illinois) it is not legal to allow someone to babysit that is under the age of 14. To do so is neglect.

Just with Elder Abuse and or the suspicion of abuse it should be reported. The same with Child abuse or endangerment.
Why sit and wonder when there is a potential for something to happen that can be prevented. Call your States Child Protection Service and report or at least ask if this is a reportable case of neglect. Better to be over cautious than regretful.

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14? I was baby-sitting for little kids at 11. I was a very responsible tween though.

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This should be a firm no to the grandmother. Ignore the crying. The welfare and safety of the baby are more than the grandmother's tears. She has dementia and is not going to understand the problems that could occur.

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Amen to that, Becky. Get the grandmother a doll. Dolls can't get hurt.

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Is it legal for my mother who has extreme (at times) signs of dementia care for an infant?

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