I've just met a guy in our 6th months of relationship. He is 43 and I'm 32 yet our chemistry and connection is beyond depth. The more I get connected to him; I do see his devotion to take care of his parents as he lives with them under same roof. Here's where I need support in the concept of caretaker and being in relationship.
Background: The house in Berlin, Germany was built by his father but eventually developed a disease that led to full time on wheelchair with dissolving muscles over the years. His scene requires someone to watch him, prepare all meals, assist with nature calls that goes in a bag, uses special machines to lift his body on and off the bed. Consistent therapy to keep his legs moving. Long list to name even further, basically 24/7 care. The mother is in pretty good health in her 70’s however she has high fear to drive or fly for many years so my boyfriend drives her around or she takes the bus. In Europe, bus/train system is pretty good but still dependent on my boyfriend due to comfort zone of going from site 1 to the site 2 onwards.
Background continued: my boyfriend mentioned he moved in with them 2 years ago since he landed good job with Government which is only 15 mins train ride from his childhood home. For most of his life he had his own pathway so he said he felt it’s time to give back to his parents. On top of that it is extremely hard to find apartments to rent and/or buy so he rather to continue living at his parents since it’s pretty comforting place of 5 bedrooms, garden full of food, fruit trees, serenity neighborhoods and he has his own basement with full of office, studio and beyond. He mentioned it wouldn’t be nearly possible to find that comfort anywhere else in Berlin if he relocates.
So on a final note; from my observation it’s truly hard for me to visualize myself joining him and his life like that way as a new girlfriend. Two weeks was the only longest duration I slept over so am trying to analyze this experience. Pros; getting to know his fantastic parents with full of stories. Cons; seeing my boyfriend being the “son” role around his parents with different language use. Seeing him having full mindset of constant care once he enters back in their house differ than the fun joy boyfriend I spend the full day with at downtown. With that experience I told him bluntly which made him to realize to look at himself outside of box, out of his nutshell of his own reality. But then that was brief as he prefers to return back to his “act of love routines” on daily basis. Is it a greed of myself to feel like he deserve life of his own while he felt he is obliged to give back to his parents in this chapter of his life as a 43 years old childless man who wants to become a father.
I’m getting the hints that he would like to try see if I could move in. What about our future? Is this family coexisting possible? Is it better if I just head out of this relationship sooner since my intuition feel lot of fear or should I dive in deeper to give this a try?
Life happens and situations change. Boyfriend's father has a terrible disease that has crushed his dream of living in this beautiful home forever. It happens. A lot.
Boyfriend is twisting himself into a pretzel to keep the inevitable ay bay.
This is a situation that you cannot fix with love. If the garden is too much for boyfriend to care for after his parents are gone, it will be MUCH too much work when both father and mother need more care than they do now.
Exit strategy-- tell the truth. "I love you all, but this situation seems very fraught with pitfalls and lots of magical thinking. I don't want to continue pursuing a romantic relationship with you."
Selfish? Don't you think you deserve to think of yourself first when choosing a life partner?
Some advice from me, a 70 year old with 2 marriages and 3 married kids? Don't marry anyone who isn't putting YOU first. He's not.
Yeah, I think they aren't nor I am either. This morning I woke up and realizing about one slight thing that I was blind to which was; the Christmas card. They actually used the family group photo as their main photo for Christmas Card this year which took me by surprise. It was only the parents, his brother/girlfriend and my BF+myself. At first at the moment I felt so honored because I never had previous boyfriends who did that *slightly* fast in sense of warming and open hands...But then this morning I felt it might be other motives to get me in the family as soon as possible...I know I am really a good woman, with good heart and intentions to find a good man that's all.
Anyways. Yes to your second and third sentences. I also just learned they added 2 to 3 projects to adapt the house to fit his accessible needs which will get months to get done via expanding the wall and some ramps. My BF seems pleased with this decision of his and pursues to find a contractor to get it done... (While I'm thinking; okay; here goes his focus on that instead of himself...)
Time for me to go. Yes. Apparently, the sons will sell the house when they pass away which is a hard truth for his parents so am not quite sure why they are still so mind-locked into continuing the house projects under their conditions.
Thank you for the guiding statements for the exit plan. I'll bring it up slightly and make it pretty obvious if necessary. Your last three sentences is pretty strong-I have lot respect for you and rest folks here too.
You would be a tremendous convenience for him. Would he support you financially? Would you contribute money to the household as well as cook for all of them, do patient care, run errands? Are you expected to entertain his friends and relatives? If you keep your job, how will you have time for that?
It looks like he wants to use you, so I don't see many advantages with this man. Your intuition is telling you not to do it. I'd go with the intuition. There are men who will love you, put you on a pedestal, support you and help with the kids. Doesn't look like he's it.
Good luck whatever you decide!
Thank you for your input, and for truly, taking the time to type. From what I see is that he is financially stabilized, with a tremendously good job that he sees himself with for the rest of the years to come so it's ideal for me to move in instead of him sacrificing what he has. Yes, I plan to contribute the financial part equally with my remote job, as I do not want to be those ladies back in the old days when they are fully dependent on their partners. From my experience visiting for two weeks, it seems doable to work remotely and either walk up from the basement or from upstairs to the living room to join the company there. Yeah, I think I came to this forum to get confirmation of what I already feel, think and fears are all valid. Just need an exit plan. Any tips to do it genuinely?
With senior care living, the caregivers are experienced, with 2 or 3 shifts each day. Plus his parents would be around people more to their own age group.
Thank you for your input. Yes, I believe there are several in Berlin but I also think (like I mentioned in other comments in this forum thread) that his father actually hand-built their house customized from floor to roof with a large garden going on with fruit/veggies and trees. But then... a couple of years later his father just declined out of blue and then spend a year or two modifying the house with a stairlift, revamped bathroom/shower to be wheelchair friendly plus ramps around the house + garden to be accessible. It is truly just heartbreaking to see his lifelong devoted project isn't accommodating to his disease anymore. My BF doesn't want to keep living in that house if his parents aren't there because it takes a lot of work so his father is in despair about everything.
Bottom line; they are trying to live in that house as long as they can. I highly encourage them to start thinking of hiring a live-in caretaker. Encourage my BF to start looking for a condo of his own or apartments if he wants to live a life with me. But.... as others said here is that in no time I'll still end up taking care of my BF due to his age and he still will visit his parents frequently if we live nearby. Theres no win-win to this, still? Am I selfish for thinking that way?
More likely to FLY for my life out of Germany, eh? Kindly ask for a genuine exit plan?
Your words are bluntly said and absorbed fully by me. I will need to say that clearly to him. My BF did mention he doesn't want that house that his father hand build himself because it is too much to take care of with the garden going on. It's heartbreaking to see his father in this situation actually, seeing his sons bailing out of the house during his health conditions in the house he built wasn't accommodating to him hence the rebuilt of the entire bathroom/stairways was done years later. The point here is; how long should I wait for his next move and/or take the exit as gently as possible without hurting him?
Thank you for your input and emphasized that I am young even if I don't feel like it due to reproduction pressure with everybody saying I should make babies soon! Yes, I do want the right mate and start a family of my own. Just a small one and continue loving life. It is incredibly crazy to have a partner if he depends on others. You aren't the fault in this, KNance! Thank you for your advice.
I don’t care how nice his parents home is, it’s not worth giving up your freedom.
It could be a mansion but you will still end up being in prison in the end.
Thank you for your input. I sometimes do not feel like it since everybody keeps saying I should have a baby soon due to my age. I'll continue to find someone and thank you for reminding me that it doesn't matter what kind of home he has. I hope my BF see that and start living on his own.
I will add my two cents: Don’t do it! Your boyfriend has too much baggage to be in a serious relationship and I foresee you will be taken advantage of.
Do you speak German? If not, then I'm going to say relocating to there isn't such a great plan. Don't get me wrong. I love Germany it's a wonderful country. Even though many people speak English in Europe, you can't count on that. Visit a grocery store, that's a good test. Everything will be in German.
I'd say take JoAnn's advice and date someone for four seasons. That's good advice.
Then ask yourself this. Do you really want to live with your boyfriend in his parent's house?
When I married my first husband I was very young. His parents owned a three-family house and we moved into one of the apartments. We had our own apartment but that doesn't guarantee privacy if family owns where you live and they live there themselves. I loved my MIL and still do, but she didn't always respect privacy and boundaries. She'd let herself into my house when we were at work to "surprise" us by cleaning the place and leaving supper. My house was plenty clean enough and supper was never a problem. This was her guise to be nosey and snoop around. I ended up putting new locks on the door.
You won't be moving into a separate apartment where you can lock it down.
Think about that.
I also was right in town and had family and friends around.
You'll be in a foreign country.
No matter how many promises and agreements made swearing that you won't, you will become a caregiver.
Are you ready to take that on? Your boyfriend is going to be at work all day, and guess who will become the live-in help?
You.
Don't do it. Never live with a romantic partner unless you have your own place. It's a bad idea to move in with mom and dad.
I hope you aren't too burned out at this point? :(
I do not speak German. I have been to the country several times and do love it there. I work remotely so that helps with balancing out English/German usage. But you're right, realistically, it does feel like a struggle if I live there full-time.
CHEERS TO FOUR SEASONS, YES! That shall start only when he lives on his own, then I will pursue that but how soon will that happen? Probably never? His vision isn't clear to me and as of right now for the next matter of a few couple months, he hopes for me to move in and get closer to his family as a whole.
Your story is valued and will be remembered. I had this intuition it is wrong to move in and date a "son" for the first time during our 6 months of the relationship. It is just a scary thought so glad I could come here on this platform to read all of your submissions.
Don't believe anything he promises. Only rely on his action. His parents will move to a facility "someday'. "Someday" is never actually defined.
Thank you for your input. I honestly do not think the parents will ever move out since as I mentioned in other earlier posts his father hand-built the house, literally from floor to roof. It is truly beautiful alongside with garden in the back filled abundance of fruit/vegetables and fruit trees. I could fantasize about living there with 4-5 children living the "farm life" with the BF but that doesn't go to happen. My BF doesn't want to live there long term since it requires a lot of daily tending. His father is in deep despair about continuing to live there due to the house not accommodating to his needs and he didn't even predict that he would end up being in a wheelchair full time in a matter of a few years later.
On short note; thank you for your inputs. I'll steer lightly and see what he would do in matter of next couple months. Letting it lead to summertime with lots of outings, not being in Germany and then lets see from that point. Who knows he move forward to find live-in caretaker instead. Oh gee, how long should I wait...
"Coexisting"? Forget that.
You will be absorbed o to the codependent & become 'the help'.
I's no-one's fault but elderly or disabled people's needs can just take over a household.
BF has told you what he is. The Good Son. He is not at ready to be a husband or father.
I'm sorry. But move on.
That terminology is straight to the point. Thank you. I'll remember that. I've seen a lot of Italians families doing coexisting approach since it's their culture- well most Europeans are too due to the housing shortage, unlike America with an individualistic culture. Honestly, how do they all do it? I couldn't.
Noted. I'm dating a son not a future husband/father. I'll tell myself that several times.
No, it is basically selfishness on your part to want YOUR own life, and I would say it is healthy and normal to want that.
Your boyfriend doesn't need a wife nor have time for one now. He needs a helper. He has dedicated himself to this care.
If you wish to move to Germany and take on another life, another language and another job, then do that; you can see one another; you can provide him support, but
IF YOU MOVE IN:
You are marrying a son. Not a husband.
I don't believe it would work out, no matter the love you feel.
I am glad you are thinking about this a whole lot. And I hope before you move your household, quit your job and etc. you think a whole lot MORE. This post you gave us is all about THEM. And it always will be "all about them" if you move in--the Mom, the Dad and the Son. Not all about a husband and boyfriend and a life built for yourselves together.
I was told that at the beginning of a marriage you already KNOW the end of it, if it will end. They were correct in my circumstance. I think you know the end in your own, as well.
I sure wish you luck in your choice and I sure hope that you will update us on your decision.
And if you choose to do this, you mentioned he wants a child. Ummmmmm. No children for at LEAST two years. Because bringing a child into this is just wrong in my humble opinion, and I believe he will be left with that child and two parents to care for or you will be a single Mom with your child's parent in another country. A child you have NOW will be grown up when his mother passes. And he will be in his 60s.
You already know/knew everything I just wrote. I hope it helps to see that the whole world knows it as well.
Thank you for pointing out that my first original post was all about them. I didn't realize that until I re-read it twice and on the third time I realized that I am just trying to be the "helping" to foster the love I have for my BF but no, it isn't the healthy love.
The true point about the beginning of marriage we know the end of it which is true due to my experience witnessing others' relationships. I think I need to take the exit plan if he doesn't share what his vision looks like in long run and put them into ACTION. Yes, I refuse to bring a child in that household in their condition, no. Thank you for making the future clear, especially for him becoming in his 60s. I better just take the exit.
living together as boyfriend/girlfriend often breaks up the relationship anyway -- so if you do try to live with him (in his parents' house), it's very likely that after some months you'll want to leave (even if the parents wouldn't be there).
living together brings out people's true nature, and you'll very quickly see if you REALLY, REALLY love him, and he REALLY, REALLY loves you.
2.
anywayyyy, what kind of love do YOU want? the kind where you have lots and lots of doubts, and you ask strangers on a forum what to do about your relationship? or the kind of love that's so unstoppable, that there's no way you would let any obstacle stand in the way of being with your boyfriend. no doubts. total certainty that he's the one. and in that case, it doesn't matter at all what the obstacles are, you TWO will find a solution together.
why in the world is HE not helping to figure out what's best for you TWO? maybe he's not that dedicated to you? if you live with him, he'll just be glad he has a girlfriend in the house (maybe so you can do chores, help - and simply to have "female company")?
try not having s*x with him AT ALL, and see if he still wants to be with you, and have you in the house.
3.
be financially independent OP. i feel part of your decision might be based on the fact that (maybe) (of course only you know), you're looking for a cheaper place to live? so you want to live with him?
nowhere in your post do i see any words, like:
i'm crazzzzzzy about him, and he's totally crazy about me. we're really, really in love. i'm going to make this work no matter what, whether we live together now, or later, or whatever. he's the man of my dreams!!! let me tell you all his amazing qualities, and all the cute things he does for me. and, whenever i have doubts or worries, he and i always talk everything through and solve it together.
1. Noted! I lived in with my ex back then and it was already challenging so cannot fathom living with his parents as a new girlfriend or should I say expected caretaker...
2. I can see he is stuck in this kind of situation where his parents don't want to move out due to his father hand-built the house literally from floor to roof but that was when he didn't realize he would end up in a wheelchair for the rest of his life. So, with my BF's job that got him upped in the rank in Berlin instead of Munich so it is "natural" for him to move into the house and do both commitments until I came into the picture; I can see he hopes for that. But I refuse to, my intuition said that, and reading all of your posts helped.
3. Yes, I am financially independent- not like women being expected to be financially dependent on their partners. My BF is the pretty oldest guy I ever dated before and we just clicked. It is now at the stage where we need to face our "suitcases" at this point seeing if he will move on with his life or just continue being caretakers at his childhood house and the life rolls on.
No, I'm not extremely crazy because I have fallen in love hardly with a previous relationship that left me shattered. I guess after a few relationships; I'm becoming more conscious but not that conscious enough since I am here asking you all about this new situation that I have never experienced before. He is incredibly amazing, yes, with all of his life well-established career, and all of that. The only concern is his parents and their massive house. Sure is saddening to see his parents hoping to continue living there while they decline which is bad idea.
I'll hope to see if he locks on to new plan and make action happen- if not, I'll take the exit. How long should I wait is the question as well..Your inputs helped me to stay awake not being blind in love. Thank you.
I think you are smart thinking this thru. Most of us are Seniors who have done the Caregiving thing so we know how hard it is. With all you describe about Dad, he needs to be in a Nursing home. Your relationship is only 6 months old. I would keep it the way it is for now. I also would wonder why a man of 43 has not been married before.
We have had women on this forum who have moved in with a BF caring for a parent or two. She is then expected to care for that parent or parents. Most of the time they have given up a job and get stuck. Even married women have had a husband move in a parent without asking and are expected to care for the parent. It causes problems in the relationship.
I personally would not get involved with a man that I am not #1. If he asks you to move in just tell him your relationship is too new. Really 6 months is not long enough to know a person. Let the "newness" wear off. I think you really know the answer here you just needed confirmation. I think you have gotten it, DON'T DO IT!
Thank you for the super advice on 4 seasons- beautifully said! To be grounded with the Earth as we adapt through seasons!
I also forgot the fact that seniors have done the caregiving thing too! That gave me a bigger perspective now out of a nutshell. It also made me realize why some parents just hold their children to take care of them. In this situation, I do see my BF's parents holding him back because of multilayered situations going on in Berlin with the lack of caretaker opportunities. Nobody knows them better than their son, absolutely.
I did wonder the same. My close friends and families too but I mean, many relationships out there do have their own reasons. Yeah, I can imagine how many problems that woman on the forum you mentioned could go. I noticed my BF's father has highly demanding procedures to do on daily basis to make himself comfortable. His dietary as well since he has medicines to take.
Noted. I think I came to this forum to confirm my preliminary thoughts with strangers yet valuable stranger friends to confirm my life path to steer through better way than do head-dive blindly.
1. His parents are relatively young, in their 70s. As they age, their care will become more and more work for someone.
2. You are thinking of raising children in this household?
3. Where would you live in this household? His basement studio? Where would the children sleep?
4. Is his mother's mental illness being treated?
5. Do you have a career, money saved, retirement funding started? Are you going to be giving all that up to move to a new country? Will you be able to work there and not become isolated?
Thank you for those questions- so much needed in this difficult time in this chapter of mine.
1. Very true and as mentioned in previous messages if you would like to read those too. His parents declined for the last few years when he lived in Munich then he landed a better-paid job in Berlin so he was able to move in with them. When he lived in Munich, his brother was the main person to do consistent check-in while living in an apartment nearby with his girlfriend but that was a couple of years ago. The scene definitely declined yeah so my BF is the way to save it all.
2/3. He clearly gave some encouragement with having kids, loved kids, and a lot of friends of his already had kids as well. He is great with kids as I have witnessed myself. In a perfect dream if he lives on his own, I'll be motivated to move in for a year trial and then absolutely will have children but in his situation isn't. His house is solely owned and built by his father and his own bare hands. They aren't going to move out. Senior Citizen households in Berlin are woefully horrible and depressing being left off to die. They want to continue living in their house so what options do my BF have? He is stuck.
4. His mother is kindhearted, a bit demanding but a loving woman. She goes through a lot with his husband's declining health so she declines with him alongside. Heartbreaking, yeah.
5. Yes, I do have a career- luckily remote. Yes, money saved, condo invested, and rented out while I travel. Retirement funding, yes, not a lot since I am only 32 years old but it is starting up, yes. I plan to continue my remote job while traveling so not much of "giving-up" all over again at this point.
I already did notice several red-flags during two weeks and lightly carried the conversation with him but again it was too new for me to get "deep" already so I'm glad I could bring light-hearted energy to them during my visit. They hope I could visit again in May which I still hesitate to. I just need concrete exit plan pieces of advice.
My question is who is doing the caregiving while your BF is at work all day? Will you be expected to quit your job to become the daytime caregiver?
If your BF is 43 and wants to become a father, what's happened with his relationships before now? You are so much younger...do you see that it's very likely that you could become not only the caregiver for his parents, but also his caregiver someday?
You've only been in this relationship for 6 months. Don't invest any more time in it. You are young -- time to move on.
Thank you for your input, they are greatly appreciated. Yes, if that ever happens I would assume I'll be staying home with them since I have a remote job. They did offer me a nice desk to work on when I visited for two weeks.
I have asked about that and he replied he had relationships in past; only two were consistent however he decided to call it off since the woman had another child before him and is in a close relationship with the child's father so it was too complicated for him to continue. He said he admitted he wasted several years on that.
Thank you for the strong words "do you see that it's very likely that you could become not only the caregiver for his parents but also his caregiver someday?" Is there any way for me to have this conversation with him lightly, genuinely to make him realize that too?
Asking for a gentle exit plan advices.
Check for SILs (or ex-girlfriends of BF or siblings). Were they happy with the time they got, compared with the time parents got? Did they get lots of tasks dropped on them? Were they treated respectfully? Did they walk away? Is so, why? How many potential partners has your BF had in the past? Why did his relationships break up?
Check for family history. Is it ‘family always cares for family’? ‘In our family/ our culture’ blah blah blah? How much care did the PILs actually do for their own parents (many died young a generation ago, which is a different ball game from now).
I’m saying this because where I am there is a big discussion going on about whether privacy about criminal records should stop new girlfriends finding out about past domestic violence. So many women walk in without asking any questions about the past. And check for ‘love bombing’ in any new relationship. Look after yourself first. Him second. His parents third.
1) If you go ahead, learn the language as fast as you can. Otherwise you will always be an outsider.
2) Get some medical diagnosis about their future health and future needs. Plus their intentions when things get worse. Don't base your decision on just the way things are now.
My BF is the eldest son, only 4 years older than his brother. Just two of them. His brother took care of his parents for a long time (he lived with his girlfriend in an apartment nearby) while my BF lived in Munich not until two years ago when he moved into their parent's house in Berlin with a better job offer. Basically, if I didn't "came-in-the-picture" my boyfriend finds this an opportunity to really care for his parents since they declined so much and his brother isn't going to live with their parents since he has a girlfriend (high-school sweethearts, actually!) and building a life with her.
One thing I could tell is that my BF didn't have this high motivation to date or to "seek love" since he felt he might inherit his father's DNA and feared that he might end up like him but it is not going to stated by science. Another slightly red flag here is that my boyfriend's brother is planning to take his girlfriend's last name so it truly was upsetting for their family. More pressure on my BF to carry on the last name to the next generation but at his age?
To answer your other questions: which are critical for my thoughts and guidance. Thank you. Yes, his family relatives seem to be supportive even if they live all over Germany but they do not really visit, just phone calls to check-in. Basically, it is just down to my BF, his parents, and his son but he's becoming distant slowly having his own schedule with work, hobbies, and focusing on his soon-to-be-wife.
I'm okay with roaming around Europe as a remote worker that I have stabilized with, in America, and do have a condo of my own if I ever need to return. It's just me wanting to continue with him but same time, trying to stay realistic I guess?
Do they plan on hiring outside help? If they don’t hire anyone, chances are that you will end up doing some of the work.
How serious are you about this guy? I would lean towards not moving in. If he is serious about you then he will place you first in his life.
"Chemistry" my behind! He's been playing you for a fool, and no healthy relationship is "beyond belief" when one partner's mind is engaged with Mommy and Daddy and he lives with them. Trust me -- the chemistry and connection is all an act.
You, my dear, are being scammed.
Leave and get as far away from this as you can and thank the heavens that you came to this forum and heard from people who know what they're talking about. Please be wise enough to take our advice.
My half sister just married and moved in w a guy who cares for his mother, against my advice, and now she's gobsmacked by all that's required of her. 🙄
Move in with them for a month or 2 as a trial run, if you'd like. Then you'll see with your own 2 eyes what life looks like on a daily basis, just how "anxiety ridden" mother is, and just how high their son jumps when the parents bark orders. No joke. Care of the father sounds like a HUGE ordeal better suited to a nursing home staff.
Best of luck to you
You will HATE not having a boyfriend because he will devote most if not all his time to his parent.
You won't have much of a love life with your caregiver boyfriend.
You will RESENT having to feel like you need to also help care for this dad and mom. How can you refuse to help if you're right there?
You will eventually have to become a caregiver to his parents too.
You will be burned to a crisp caretaking his parents.
You will eventually become financially dependent on him and his parents for a roof over your head.
You will be stuck.
You will wish you had never stepped foot in this house.
By then, 2 years, 5 years, 10 years of your life are gone, depending on how tolerant you are.
If you have children with him (please do not), it a foregone conclusion that you will stuck living because you can't afford to move out and raise the kids on your own.
Oh, and another thing, his parents will HATE you.
You can either learn from other people's mistakes or you can learn from your own.
I can also tell you this. Many women in your situation won't believe the advice they get here, and will proceed to do what they want. That's ok, too. Many of us have to make our own mistakes in order to learn. But please don't bring kids into this.