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My mom lives there now and has a caregiver for 8 hours, 3 days a week. She is 90. He lives in the full downstairs of a 4400 sq ft house, at least 2200 sq ft. There are so many things going on. He moved in Jan 2022. My dad has been in assisted living since April 2023. My brother is verbally abusive.


Guess short question is how do I get him out? I am main DPOA. In California. Can I also say in terms of free rent he said he would take them to doctors appt, handle household stuff and grocery shop. He is an alcoholic, at least according to observance, and was admitted for severe pancreatitis from hospital records.


He does not do 90% of of what he said he would. He sleeps most of the day, uses vodka to sleep as well.


He has lived there at least 2 years, rent free. Can I get him out to make room for a long term caregiver or any other reason? I would like to move my dad back home because he seems in a declining state.


We would need space for live-in care giver, that is what my dad planned the space for.

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He needs lots of help before he could realistically hold a job. A highly rated retreat/drug & alcohol rehabilitation is the first step. At first, I thought he’s probably parents’ caregiver. But, however, he needs caregiver himself. Let us know how this goes. Hugs 🤗
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I do understand wanting family to stay in their home as long as possible.

However, it seems here, the home contains a brother, who is abusive with substance problems. He may live separately in the basement, but this is causing problems to the household.

I understand the aim is to remove him but wonder if removing the elders, to somewhere safer may need to be seriously considered instead?
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Llb1241 Jul 2023
Yes, that is what is on the table but to get him out might take a year. I need money to pay for assisted living.
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Welcome, Lib.

Have you consulted with an attorney about this plan?

Assuming that your parents' home has more than one bedroom, why not put the live-in in a second bedroom and just ignore the fact that brother is there?

Can your parents afford to hire a geriatric care manager to be the "boots on the ground" person?

Have you reported brother's verbal and physical abuse to APS?

Have you considered moving mom into AL with dad and selling the house to find their care?
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Llb1241 Jul 2023
Live ins here do not expect a small bedroom with no tv in a house. Yes, I’ve considered AL . But my mom refuses to move, I’ve tried everything.
No, I have not consulted an attorney, consulting an attorney is the only option At this stage.
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Also, your math is off. In Northern California the cost of a 1 bedroom apartment is 2k - 3k a month. You are not paying someone’s car insurance and gas, so deduct that. Private pay caregivers earn that only IF they are going thru an agency. Hourly rates are much lower. Who is talking in exchange for room and board, I’m not up for a rude awakening, I’m already awake.

workman’s comp etc. is if they are salaried and agencies build that into the cost, which they do. So, I get your points, but not every family situation is solvable. That is the point, my parents care and safety is the point. Nothing else.
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The ultimate goal here is to kick your brother out of your parents home to make room for a full time live-in Caregiver.

Burnt Caregiver’s answer is truly spot on. I’d heed that advice seriously. But I’ll elaborate just a bit more…

First, in California, it’s gonna take considerable resources & time to evict your brother. Even with DPOA the courts will be involved, taking several months, if not a year or more. The local county Adult Protective Services will also likely get involved. Everyone’s finances will get reviewed by the State. Think the IRS sucks, just wait till the CA Franchise Tax Board gets ahold of you’all. Between the lawyers, fees, & time, your adventure into eviction processes will make divorce proceedings look like a vacation.

Second, you need to do a lot more research into what’s involved with live-in Caregiving. If you’re under the impression that you can give someone “Room & Board” in exchange for taking care of your parent, you’re in for a rude awakening. It doesn’t work that way. There are very strong labor laws that protect workers (even those not here legally) from such situations. In California, private pay caregivers easily earn between $20 & $40 an hour, depending on location & required skills. Agency caregivers will cost you between $30 & $50 an hour. Do the math. The cost of rent & food ( while still high ) is nowhere near the compensation necessary for such a caregiver position. If you can afford to pay a Caregiver $5k a month in addition to free room & board & in addition to another part time Caregiver position, likely an additional $2k to $3k, you might be able to pull it off. That of course is in addition to the increase in insurance costs & workman’s compensation costs required in California.

Third, it is much too common how half-involved siblings make assumptions about the care being provided. Think carefully about the accusations you wish make. Unless you have directly & applicably experienced the day to day needs of your parents, I wouldn’t judge those that actually are experiencing it. Perhaps instead of trying to tear down your brother, you look for ways to empower him to elevate his care skills. You seem far too eager to burn bridges, rather than build them. Lest you forget, there will come a day when your parents are no longer on this earth, but your brother will be.

Best of luck!
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Llb1241 Jul 2023
It really is not like that. You assume my brother is an angel, he is not. He is verbally and physically abusive. Me physically, both my mother and me verbally. I’m not half involved but do I really need to explain myself? I’m at my parents house doing 14 loads of laundry every 2 weeks, there 10 days a month, calling drs, gardeners, visiting my dad. Getting new caregivers, handling all prescriptions. Taking her to drs appts which he can’t do, meaning I have to fly to do it, paying medical bills. So, while he lives in the basement. Drinking himself to death.
he does 1 a week grocery shopping of which most of it is vodka, and gets 1/4 of her list. We have a 3x a week caregiver. He does Not cook on any days. He never makes her breakfast or lunch, rarely does dinner and does not do laundry. Fills up gas in his cars.
So, now that you have all the details you assumed, what advice do you have?
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If dad's declining, the last thing you need to do is move him home.

In fact, the best thing you could do is move mom to assisted living, memory care or a skilled nursing facility, take your pick. Leave dad in care also.

Too many people hop on the bus of "My parents want to die at home and no matter what I have to do like engage with an abusive relative, give up all semblance of my own normal life, and take care of their stinky dog, I AM GOING TO HELP THEM DIE AT HOME."

The plan your dad made many years ago does not fit their situation now. You are by no means required to stick to the plan. You have DPOA. Also, one live-in caregiver will not be enough for two people. You'll need a live-in and two or three more. Managing that long distance will be a challenge, and that's putting it mildly.

As for the alcoholic brother, that's major. He is sick, needs care himself, and shouldn't be your responsibility.

The problem is larger than your brother. It's about a plan that may not be workable at all under the present state of circumstances. Consider selling the house soon after you get brother out of there.

Good luck.
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Llb1241 Jul 2023
Yes, this is a good answer. but my mom has been reluctant, and in fact has reduced capacity -- for those of you familiar with brain shrinkage, it creates some unusual behaviors.
One thing I think you might need to reconsider is number of caregivers. It totally depends on their needs and level of care. In fact one caregiver can take care of 2 people who don't move around a lot(not ideal) but in California a 24/7 caregiver living in your home costs 6K a week at least.
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I am assuming that your mother has dementia and that you are now financially and in other ways responsible, and acting as her POA in ALL things.
If not, as Burnt says, you have no say in whether your brother stays, pays rent, goes.

IF mother has dementia and you are currently acting in all things legal and financial for her, yes, you can evict your brother, legally if your POA is written so as to include such powers. And you WILL have to evict in all likelihood.
He is now a tenant whether he pays rent or not.

Please don't make this any messier by asking him to do ANYTHING. Firstly, merely having an alcoholic there is quite dangerous. Secondly, the thought of his driving your mom anywhere is terrifying.

As a landlord for years I can tell you that eviction is a difficult procedure in many cases; tenants can show up in court and get as much as a year in delays. This is also complicated by the fact you are dealing here with a relative. See a landlord tenant attorney and know that this is paid for by your Mom through POA.
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BurntCaregiver Jun 2023
@Alva

Don't assume the mother has dementia or has it to a point where she is completely out of it and can't still reason.
She may want her son there with her and if she does then he should be there if that's what they both want. People often don't want to be alone, but they also don't want a complete stranger being moved into their homes either.

The OP claims by "observance" that her brother is an alcoholic. How does she observe from 500 miles away?

It's not necessarily dangerous for them to be living together. There is such a thing as a functioning alcoholic. My first husband was one. He never missed a day of work from drinking. He never got DUI's. He'd walk home from the bar. I Iived with him for 11 years and was never in a moment of danger from him.

These kinds of posts where the distant sibling who doesn't do any caregiving but is worried about the sibling who does because they don't pay rent really rubs me the wrong way.
From 500 miles away the OP has no idea what the day-today life is for her brother or her mother.
The fact that he's there and their mother is not alone is worth something. Many people don't think so, but it is.
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To start with, if your mother wants your brother there it is not for you to get him out. It's not your house.
Your profile says that you live 500 miles away which means that you really can't accurately assess what your brother does for mom on a day to day basis.
As for him living rent-free for almost two years. Unless you're financially supporting the household yourself, it really isn't your business what kind of arrangement your mother has with him. Believe me a live-in caregiver is going to be a lot more than your brother's free rent.
Now, I'm going speak to you from 25 years of experience as an in-homecare caregiver and as one to my mother for years. People often tend to think that the adult child who doesn't pay rent and lives with the parents is living the sweet life. That they do nothing but lay around all day while mom and dad pay the bills.
I have found from experience (both professional and personal) that this is usually very far from the truth. Their lives aren't the cake-walk people think they are. I admit I've been judgmental at times myself about clients' adult children living at home who to the casual observer it looks like they do nothing at all. Was I ever wrong. Only until I was living that life myself did I really see what their lives are like.
No, thank-you. No amount of free rent is worth it.
You say according to your brother's hospital records he had pancreatitis. How is it that the hospital allowed you to be privy to his personal medical information? Are you his POA or conservator who makes his health/financial decisions? If not then your brother should talk to a lawyer because hospitals are supposed to be very careful about patient privacy and what's in their charts.
Your mother has care 8 hours a day 3 days a week. A lot can get done in that time. Your brother is there for the times the caregiver isn't.
If your mother is fine with the current arrangement, leave it alone. Don't try to go over her head and get him thrown out because it might not work out like you think it will. Also there's no reason why your father can't come home if he's able to with your brother there. He willl be able to get his own homecare if his doctor orders it.
Take a step back and maybe go for a visit. Talk to your mother and brother about your concerns, then let them talk and you listen. In the long run your brother living there may turn out to be a blessing in disguise.
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In Ca, you have to begin eviction proceedings. After 30 days he has legal residency.
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BurntCaregiver Jun 2023
@southernwave

If the homeowner wants the person to be living there, no one has a right to start an eviction process.
The homeowner would have to be the one to start an eviction.
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The eviction process varies by state, so you will need to research what it is in CA. Usually you file for eviction in your county courthouse and pay the fee, then you post the eviction notice for 30 days in a specific location (stated on the form). After that, if he refuses to vacate the property you can probably have the police escort him off. Then change all locks and entry codes. But I repeat that you have to check it out for your state specifically.

If he didn't sign a written contract regarding his bartering of rent with caregiving services then I don't think it carries any weight legally.
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Hi there. I am thinking legal advice is needed.

I know I've read of others having this problem - versions of the sibling in the basement problem (or van/cabin on the land, never flown adult kids or returned for whatever reason), often umemployed, addictions too etc.

How to evict?

Mom & Dad's home but they wouldn't/didn't exict him.

Now you can legally sign for them as DPOA - but - do you have the legal ability to exict hIm?

Sounds reasonable for Brother to move out to allow Dad back home + caregiver... but is it legal?

I am thinking of the other option: to transistion your Mom also into AL...therefore forcing house sale & eviction?
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AlvaDeer Jun 2023
For sure on the legal advice. She is going to need a good tenant-landlord attorney who knows his/her stuff.
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