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My dad is 77-years-old and last week we went to the doctor after my sister, and I noticed that he was becoming forgetful on things like taking his medicine properly and turning off water faucets, and leaving car doors open. Furthermore, he has anxiety and his extremely hard of hearing. Also was shuffling his feet a lot and falling. When we went to the doctor for a checkup we told the doctor and the doctor gave him a cognitive test where he only scored a 15 out of 30, which was really concerning. The doctor said he does not need to be driving and that he would not revoke his license yet, but it’s coming. Based on that information, I took his keys at least until we got his medicine corrected and he was taking it correctly. It’s been about a week and he’s doing much better getting around the house but now that I’ve told him I took the keys because the doctor says he didn’t need to be driving. He wants them back really bad. I don’t know what I should do. Before the doctor’s appointment he was driving about 10 minutes each way from where he normally goes, but he was driving really slowly. He lives 45 minutes away from my sister and I and we’re worried that if he’ll hurt somebody if he gets his keys back. We have offered for him to come and live with us or my sister and he does not want to. He does have two brothers that live near him, but they are also up in age as well. We’ve arranged for a lady friend of his to come and help him with his medicine so he doesn’t get confused in the a.m. and p.m. and so far that has worked and she will stay with him for a little bit, but he is very independent, but he’s going stir crazy, because he can’t do what he wants to do. What should we do?

Do NOT return his keys. He can take a cab or an Uber.
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Reply to southernwave
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“Dr said you can’t drive. As soon as doc says it’s okay, then you can drive again.” Period. No negotiation or discussion. He’s going to have to figure out a different way to get around. Does he have a smart phone where he could learn Uber? I’m sure he’s mad or worried. Anybody would be .. but doc said .. and he can call the doc if he wants to try and negotiate that. Don’t let him think it’s up to you.
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Reply to Lmkcbz
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Allow him to stay home with assistance. He should have caregiver to drive him to appointments & errands. Ask PCP if he qualifies for any additional assistance if not then You guys fill in where you can by meal prepping for him on the weekends or ask nearby friends to help. Explain to him that he doesn’t want to harm himself or others while driving. It could become quite costly!!
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LoopyLoo Oct 24, 2024
This is how it gets worse for everyone. Letting the LO stay home and hire caregivers and family fill in on weekends results in more exhaustion, more stress, and an elder who won’t get the help they need.

ALF and the like aren’t cheap, but neither is hiring caregivers. My friend’s mom has dementia and they tried the caregiver route in ALF. Oops… it was $16,000 A MONTH. And would have been more if she was at home.
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Give him the wrong set of keys-(ha-ha). (okay-not funny).
Some elderly people get around -short distances -on golf carts or 4 wheelers, but I do understand that he could also end up going out on the Main road. If he lives in a rural area & has good access to his neighborhood road-he may feel it's enough , being able to cart himself to his siblings homes , or just to a cul de sac to hang out for awhile.
I'm sorry his life has gotten to this point. I'm sure you may have other concerns concerning his own & everyone else's safety -and have some weighty decisions to make.
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Worriedson83: Your father should not be living alone.
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Reply to Llamalover47
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Is ride share available in your dad’s area? If not, perhaps it is time for a facility placement. Why 9 months for an available appointment? Your dad needs help now. No matter what, do not return the vehicle keys back to your dad.
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Reply to Patathome01
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Take the keys and hide them. If he asks, say they are lost.
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Reply to swmckeown76
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Tell him this is not negotiable. He’ll fuss and be mad, but that’s better than him killing someone.
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Reply to LoopyLoo
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Worried:
Thanks so much for your answers to our responses. They give us SO much more information and make it so much easier to give you better answers.

I would go to youtube and look up the SLUMS test and the MoCa (Montreal) test for dementia. Each is only 20 to 30 questions. Make it a game with Dad. If you note failure on these tests you know something right there. Then await the test 9 months out (medical care getting insane in this country, right?).
If he is a big failure on these, keep the keys, but also time to seek care. You have the POA.

I wish you the very best, but in a gentleman this wobbly waiting for 9 months for assessment is NOT OK.

I am so very sorry.
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Reply to AlvaDeer
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Would he drive if he didn't have insurance?

In some states insurance companies will notify the DMV when insurance is dropped. The state can then turn around and suspend the plates for no insurance.
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Reply to jwellsy
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Maybe I missed it but what medicine is he taking and to treat what condition?

My 95-yr old Mom took a virtual driving assessment through OT. She scored 16 out of 30. She failed the physical reaction portion of the assessment. The OT told her she is considered high risk and that she should stop driving immediately and that it would get reported to the Dept of Public Safety, and it did and they sent a letter canceling her license.

My Uncle should have been stopped from driving but wasn’t. He went thru a red light and was T-boned which killed his passenger, his wife (and their dog).

Do whatever it takes to stop his driving. He’ll adjust.
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Worriedson83 Oct 18, 2024
Thanks for the advice; he takes medication for diabetes, high blood pressure, cholesterol, and anxiety. After the last appointment, the doctor put him on medication that can treat dementia. So far, he is reacting to the cognitive medication very well, and now that he is taking all of his medication correctly, he seems to be doing much better, but I still think there is a bigger issue than him not taking his medication correctly.
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Pull the battery out of the car.
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Reply to brandee
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Ok...I first must say that ANY doctor that wouldn't revoke a persons license that scored 15 out of 30 on a cognitive test, should themselves have their medical licenses revoked for endangering the countless innocent people on the roadways while a demented person is driving. How stupid can his doctor be??? Apparently very huh?

Please for the love of God DO NOT give your dad back his keys!!! You and your dad will feel terrible if he kills or seriously injures someone. Plus he could lose everything in a civil lawsuit if it's found out that he was driving with dementia, and kills or injures someone.
Driving with dementia is NO different than driving drunk or high and the consequences are the same as well, as it should be.
You wouldn't give your teenage son the care keys if you knew he'd been drinking more than he should, now would you? Of course not. So keep your dads car keys well hidden, or disable it, and if you have to move his car to your house so it's out of sight out of mind, well...so be it.
Your dad should not be living by himself anymore, so instead of wondering about whether or not to give him him keys back, you should be discussing what the next step in his full-time care looks like.
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Reply to funkygrandma59
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Worriedson83 Oct 17, 2024
Thanks for the advice. We, as a family have discussed the future and we are actively monitoring him via surveillance inside the home to make sure he is doing well enough to live by himself. The lady friend does drive and she has been helping out a lot by driving him where he wants and needs to go. We and she had been monitoring his medications much closer since the doctors appointment and he is responding much better. Hasn’t fell and is walking better. To my knowledge, he is hasn’t been forgetting to do anything like he previously did, but he has asked me 3 or 4 times in the last fews days where his keys are and why I have them. I keep telling him that the doctor said it wasn’t safe for him to drive because he was taking his medications correctly and when we go back to the doctor we’ll see what the doctor says about him driving.
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Mini-Mental State Exam Scoring Chart
Score Level of Dementia
19 – 23: Mild dementia
10 – 18: Moderate dementia
9 and lower: Severe dementia

As you can see from the above chart, a score of 15 on a mini cognition test means your father has moderate dementia going on! The doctor told him he should not be driving, so I would disable his car and lose his keys to insure he's not driving. Period.

Better to ask forgiveness than permission.

You certainly cannot wait 9 months for an "official" dx from a neurologist before you stop dad from driving! My mother had ONLY a mini cognitive exam which she originally scored an 18 on to be correctly diagnosed (at the hospital) with progressive dementia, thought to be vascular in nature due to evidence of a stroke seen on her CT scan. Soon afterward, she began introducing me as her "mother". She passed away 6 years later, with advanced dementia and CHF, in a Memory Care Assisted Living facility.

The neurologist she saw later on did absolutely nothing for her, except to say she did not have Parkinson's by conducting a simple "test" dad can do at home.

"What is the two finger test for Parkinson's disease?

In finger tapping the patient is instructed to tap the index finger on the thumb as fast possible and as big as possible. This means that the patient should try to separate the two fingers as much as possible before tapping them. Make sure to test both the right and the left side."

If worse comes to worse, take the spark plugs out of dad's car. Arrange for him to get rides here and there on a schedule if possible. That's why we have POA....to make the difficult decisions FOR them now that they are cognitively impaired.

Wishing you the best of luck with a difficult situation.
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Reply to lealonnie1
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From what you have written here and in replies to people it does not sound like your dad should be living alone.
I know big leap from taking the keys away to that but break down what you have said.
Falls
Shuffling gait
forgetting he left water running
not taking medication properly (leads to over doses or under medicating)
Leaving the car door open

Does this lady friend that is helping out drive? Can driving dad be added to the list of tasks for her to do.
Is there an Adult Day Program in the area? You might want to get him involved in that if there is one.
A caregiver a few days a week for a few hours might be all he needs. They would check on him, make sure the house is safe and he is safe.

I think the doctor is a bit of a chickensh## for not taking the steps to revoke his license. Sorta puts it all on you and makes you the "bad guy".
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Reply to Grandma1954
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Worriedson83 Oct 17, 2024
She does drive and she has been helping out a lot by driving him where he wants and needs to go, but I think it may just be an independence thing. We also put cameras in his house so we can see that he is safe. We and she had been monitoring his medications much closer since the doctors appointment and he is responding much better. Hasn’t fell and is walking better. To my knowledge, he is hasn’t been forgetting to do anything like he previously did, but he has asked me 3 or 4 times in the last fews days where his keys are and why I have them. I keep telling him that the doctor said it wasn’t safe for him to drive because he was taking his medications correctly and when we go back to the doctor we’ll see what the doctor says about him driving.
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Worried, can you convince dad that it is BECAUSE of the medicines he’s on for other health problems that the doctor doesn’t not want him to drive? Maybe it would help him to have a ready excuse.

Spin a whole yarn around it if you need to - it sounds plausible…..
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Reply to Peasuep
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Worriedson83 Oct 17, 2024
We're telling him now that his doctor doesn't want him to drive because he wasn't taking his medicines correctly. Hopefully, at his next appointment in five weeks, the doctor can talk to him and reiterate that point along with the possible cognitive decline that the doctor is really concerned about.
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Don't get all wound up because he is angry. Tell him that when you get a written ok from his doctor to drive then he will get the keys back.

Shuffling at his age is not a good sign, his reflexes are not what they should be, no driving for him.

I am 77, no dementia, no Parkinson's, I drive and get along just fine, so would he be if he didn't have these issues.


And, do not have him live with you, if need be place him in a facility for his and your own well-being.
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Worriedson83 Oct 17, 2024
Thank you, MeDolly. I've thought the same thing about him living with us. We want what's best for him, and I don't think it would be good for our family, my sister's family, or him because we can't be with him the whole time and can't give him the best possible medical care for him if it gets to that point.
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Dupe please ignore
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Reply to MeDolly
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Worried,
Tell yourself that you can take his anger.

If he were to get into an accident and hurt someone, you'd be a whole lot madder at YOURSELF. And probably a whole lot guiltier.

The doc has given the orders. Follow them.
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Reply to cxmoody
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Your father needs medical attention and a medical diagnosis. His shuffling gait may indicate Parkinson's. I would tell him that and I would tell him that he will be able to drive longer with treatment and you will accompany him. If you wish to have POA I would attempt to have him give that to you.

If you feel your father is in danger you cannot take his keys from him merely on your own whim. By today's standards he is able to drive. California elders are so safe we now don't have to take written testing after 70! The doctor, who got a 15 out of 30 and is not concerned and is not referred for neuro-psyc is a true mystery to me; are you hearing what he has said directly from him or from your father?

As I said, without diagnosis, and with a doctor saying "you don't NEED to drive" (whatever THAT means), you cannot yourself simply decide things for your father. You can only do that as his POA or guardian and after testing that proves he is not competent in his own care.

You mention nothing about his living conditions? How are they? Is he cooking, eating, washing himself, doing laundry and other ADLs? (activity of daily livings).

Time for a more thorough exam. Time for paperwork for POA or a refusal. If your father isn't deemed incompetent then he has a right to live his life as he chooses.
If you are worried about his ability to do that currently I would call APS. I am certain you know, simple as these tests usually are, that a 15 out of 30 isn't looking good.

The sad thing is that much as we may want to we simply cannot control for everything. I wish you the best of luck, and your Dad as well.
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Worriedson83 Oct 17, 2024
My sister and I have POA, but he still lives by himself, washes dishes, does laundry, mows (very dangerous on his zero- turn that he won't give up), and gardens in the summer. In the fall and winter, he mostly stays in the house. He has not been diagnosed with anything, but the doctor is very concerned and has referred him to a neurologist. However, that appointment is nine months out. I was in the room with him during the appointment, and the doctor spoke to me about his concern for my dad for 75% of the appointment. He also administered a Romberg Test to dad, which dad failed. My dad looked drunk and had no sense of balance during the test. I think that because he hadn't taken his medicine correctly for a while, it didn't help during the appointment, but I still think there is an issue that is deeper than taking medicine correctly. It has been almost a week and a half, and he is getting around much better because he is taking his medicine correctly, but he still tends to be forgetful about several things, including why I have his keys. I bet I've told him four or five times that I have your keys because the doctor is concerned about you and your driving, and he wants to make sure that you are okay. I told him we could ask the doctor again when we return to see him if he could regain his driving privileges.
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Worried, you ARE stuck between a rock and a hard place and dad is going to continue to be mad at you for as long as he has the brain cells to do it. Better for you to suffer his slings and arrows than the guilt you will feel if you don’t stop him, and he or his lady friend or a neighborhood toddler is hurt or worse. I tried every which way to get my DH to accept he shouldn’t drive anymore when he was the same age, same cog. score as your dad. We were lucky, his was a small, non injury accident with no insurance involvement. He still fixates on it now and then. There seems to be this in between stage in dementia where they know whatever you say is a lie or deflection to manipulate them. Understandably, that makes them furious. Keep trying anything you can - except letting him drive again!

Have you talked with the lady friend? Chances are she’s seen dad’s driving and will be grateful to you for saving her life. Can you offer her gas and maintenance money (out of dad’s account, of course)?
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Reply to Peasuep
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Worriedson83 Oct 17, 2024
Thank you for the response. My sister and I pay her monthly for gas and groceries because she cooks for them both as well. Well before I went to the doctor with my dad, she said she had been noticing things that worried her, but he hadn't driven her anywhere in probably the last six to twelve months. He would normally drive to her house 10 minutes away, and then they would ride in her car or his, but she would always drive.
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Take his car and then tell him it was rattling and grinding bad and now his car is in the shop.
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Reply to Southernwaver
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Worriedson83 Oct 17, 2024
Thank you. The problem is that he has two vehicles: a truck that runs fine and is in his garage, and I have his car for actual repairs. It just sucks because I feel like I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place.
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Hi WorriedSon. We get this concern fairly regularly on the forum, you are not alone in wondering how to handle this. I'm just going to echo what others have suggested in the past: disable the vehicle. And nope, don't give the keys back. "The doctor said he does not need to be driving and that he would not revoke his license yet, but it’s coming." The doctor has already told you what you need to know. Under no circumstances should you give him the keys. You would knowingly be putting your father and others at risk.
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Reply to CaringinVA
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Worriedson83 Oct 17, 2024
Thank you, it's tough. I don't want my dad to be mad at me, but I agree with you that it is the safest thing to do.
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Thank you. Right now, the only person who drives him anywhere is his lady friend, who has also been up for years. The transportation is limited because he is in a rural area, and I think it's hitting him hard with the loss of his independence. It has crossed my mind to give the keys to his lady friend so that she can put miles on his car without wearing out hers, but I'm afraid that he might talk her into giving him his keys back.
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Reply to Worriedson83
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I believe you have already made the right decision in taking away his keys. Based on everything you shared here, he should not be driving and you can continue to use his doctor’s assessment to explain it to him. Discuss ways he can get where he wants to go, be it family or friends, taxi, Uber, etc. When my dad had to stop driving, we found a private caregiver who came two or three times a week and did housekeeping, took him to the store and appointments. Fortunately, he had friends that drove him to social events(He lived an hour away from us).

Losing driving privileges can be one of the biggest losses of independence there is, and many of us will have to face it at some point. People on this forum have a lot of experience handling this with cognitively impaired loved ones so you can get a lot of support and suggestions as things unfold. There are articles on this site under the topic of driving that might be helpful and you can see similar questions at the bottom of these responses. Good luck to you.
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Worriedson83 Oct 17, 2024
Thank you. Right now, the only person who drives him anywhere is his lady friend, who has also been up for years. The transportation is limited because he is in a rural area, and I think it's hitting him hard with the loss of his independence. It has crossed my mind to give the keys to his lady friend so that she can put miles on his car without wearing out hers, but I'm afraid that he might talk her into giving him his keys back.
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