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I live 15 hours away (in another state) from my mom who lives in South Florida. I have been caring for my mom from a distance (who's in a nursing home) as DPOA for the last 14 months since she's been in an accident. I have been overseeing mom who always was mentally & physically abusive to me. I complied with my mom’s wishes & got her on Medicaid with the Elder Care lawyer (of mom's choice) who set up a Qualified Income Trust & then all mom's money went to a Personal Service Contract in a checking account with my name on it. This lawyer was recommended by the nursing home & I was told this is legal in Florida. I am to keep Mom under $2000 in her own checking account. The Trust is used to pay her medical expenses & the PSC is used to pay her house bills & everything else. The nursing home has said for months that mom is "in her own right mind". She independently goes to appointments outside the nursing home. The reason mom is still in the nursing home now is because of a pressure wound that's still healing & an ASL will not take her with that. Mom still wants to hang on to her house & vehicle. But mom wants to revoke my DPOA & has gotten a different lawyer. Just this month, the nursing home said they cannot share with me mom's progress or emergencies because that's what mom wants. I have complied & gave mom's lawyer the retainer to revoke my DPOA. Then the Medicaid lawyer sent me a contract to represent me, but it stated that I will owe this lawyer possible personal out of pocket fees. Mom can revoke my DPOA but she has over $250,000+ in the PSC to pay for her choices. I feel I'm paying a price to care for this abusive mom. The Medicaid lawyer won't answer my questions & if I can pay out of the PSC. Question: to avoid confusing lawyers, is it legal to give back all of mom's money & transfer it back to her checking? Yes, she would be kicked off Medicaid, but it's up for renewal in November 2024. She can then proceed with a new DPOA on board & pursue Medicaid again if she wants to, but in the meantime she will have more than 2 yrs worth of her own money to pay the nursing home. She also has TriCare & Medicare benefits. Are there legal implications if I give back the PSC (mom's money) back to her to control? Transfer back to Mom's checking account and then write a note of my resignation from the DPOA & PSC?

Your POA document should state that you can hire expert advice.
That's exactly what you need now.
Please hire a good attorney to help you straighten this all out. It's way too complicated for a Forum of strangers to weigh in on, IMHO.
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JoAnn29 Aug 31, 2024
"But mom wants to revoke my DPOA & has gotten a different lawyer"

Op may not be POA anymore so can't use Moms money. Its just a matter of having a new POA written up and assigning someone new. POA will read "this revokes all other POAs".
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If this Medicaid lawyer is the one that helped Mom initially, I would not use him. Get ur own impartial lawyer. And no, you cannot use Moms money to protect you.

She has a new lawyer, let him figure it all out. Let Mom revoke you. you do not have to resign if she choses a new POA. Its in the new POA, "all other POAs are now revoked".

It may be a good thing to get your own lawyer just to make sure everything is kept above board. Then its lawyer to lawyer. If her lawyer wants you to give up the PSC then he requests it thru your lawyer. Then you have a paper trail. And when everything is handed over and your free and clear you make it known to her lawyer (maybe thru a letter written up by your lawyer) that since Mom has chosen to take away your ability to help her, she is now on her own. Literally, on her own. Meaning she is to not to contact you again. Let her rely on whomever she chose to take your place. You don't worry about if she is getting the care she needs. You don't worry about Medicaid dropping her and who is going to apply for it when her money runs out. She is of sound mind and capable of making her own decisions you have been told.

Living 15 hrs away makes it hard to help a parent anyway.. She used you till she felt she didn't need you anymore. So there are consequences for that. The consequence is you break all ties with her. You never care for an abusive parent. They don't change if anything they get worse. I bet in her mind she thinks she is punishing you but what she has done is free you. Please take advantage of that.

I do not understand how your Mom could have set aside 200k and receive Medicaid. If this was set up by her lawyer at the time I don't see how Medicaid approved it. But then every state is different. But, I would not hand anything over or put money back into her account until you talk to a lawyer who will help you get this done.

Please, keep us updated. We learn from others.
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You gave mom's lawyer a retainer. But that's mom's lawyer. Is it really legal for this person to represent both you and mom?
The Medicaid lawyer wants you to sign a contract for him to represent you, and if you do, you must pay him for that service. But if mom's lawyer already represents you, what does the Medicaid lawyer intend to do for you?
You need your own independent legal representation because it's possible that neither of these lawyers is looking after YOUR interests. You need a Florida lawyer to manage all of this for you.
Find an attorney of your own who is not connected to any of this mess, state what you have stated above, and make it clear that you want out of DPOA and everything else connected with this situation ASAP. There are plenty of lawyers specializing in eldercare in South Florida, and it's easy to find them. Check out the ones near your mom. Email some this weekend. I'm sure things will start looking brighter once you have an ally who can tell you your options.
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https://www.myflfamilies.com/sites/default/files/2023-02/qualified_income_trust_factsheet.pdf

This site gives you a phone number and address on sending the money to the state upon death. It doesn’t discuss how to manage transfer of POA or Trustee while the beneficiary is still living. I don’t know that your mother can remove you as Trustee as easily as changing her POA. I get it that you don’t want to be trustee any longer but the terms of the trust you signed still must be considered.

There is nothing illegal about what is also known as a Miller Trust if the State the beneficiary lives in allows them. Florida does. It’s a way for a person who has too much income to otherwise qualify with the intent of paying the state back any funds owed to Medicaid and if any funds are left over they go to the beneficiaries heirs.
Seldom if ever are there funds remaining after the state is paid is what I’ve read. The trust is irrevocable and the remaining funds in the trust go to the State of Florida up to the amount owed the state at the time of death. Again what I have read. I’m not a lawyer nor do I have a QIT.

Are mom’s streams of income still being forwarded to the trust account in your name?

Personally, I would get out the original Trust document, your mom’s Medicaid number and call the number provided. Surely this has happened often enough to have a procedure in place. I would be looking for some kind of notification/document that released me from any liability to the state and that might take a lawyer of your own.

Hopefully Igloo will see this post and tell us how Miller Trusts work when the patient leaves the NH before death.

Being a POA is not the same as being a Trustee. These are two different things. Not being the POA makes it more difficult to take care of her business but doesn’t remove your responsibility or authority over the trust is what I’m reading.

I’m sorry this has happened to you. Hopefully the bank account is attached to your moms SS number and not yours.

We have many posts regarding abusive parents and their children who wish they had never gotten involved in the parents care. I don’t recall seeing this particular situation before. Perhaps others who understand Miller trusts/QIT will see this and have some insight.

Here is a link that shows a format for a QIT for Florida Medicaid. Loot at Section 7. It covers how a Trustee resigns. Your moms QIT should have something similar.

https://www.millhornvlo.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/Medicaid-Income-Trust-Master.pdf


Please let us know how you resolve it. We learn from one another.
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igloo572 Sep 5, 2024
97, so glad you posted this as it aptly describes how a Miller / QIT runs. They are a godsend for those with just too too much income $ but otherwise impoverished to find a way to have a needed placement in and payment to a NH happen. I do think that IF the mom were to leave the Nh so no longer “at need” for a Miller to exist to be eligible for LTC Medicaid income maximum, that would require an attorney to do whatever legal filings to unthread an existing legal Trust. It would be attorney fees to be done. It’s not like DIY for a SSA representative payee situation that the elder moves to a new Nh or leaves the NH to move in with family and they themselves file the change with SSA to have a new rep payee to be done

Fwiw to me, there is something about this whole post that seems off. That the OP’s mom is a royale PIA narcissist is a given (loads of these regularly on this forum) but the introduction of a new atty AFTER the mom has done all sorts of involved specific legal seems unnecessary. Like the mom is getting flattered & played by atty #2….. a vain fool and her money is soon parted.
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I'm with everyone else here. Get out of this mess. Never take on any care of an abusive parent. They will find a way to get you entangled in a legal and financial mess. You will come out at the end of a mess that can take years to clean up. And not to mention the amount of time you will lose answering to nonsense and being made to feel like a common criminal by these beaucratic bullies. Also, don't sign anything that will make you liable for any financial obligations. The nursing home and the lawyer sounds like they are in cahoots together and someone is getting a kickback. I would stick the surveyors on their trails. You can do this anonymously. There is a complaint center with the Department of Health reporting this type of illegal practice.

Get a lawyer. Please give up that DPOA and let your mom become a ward of the state, and you go live your life.
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Retain a lawyer in the state of Florida who can answer your questions and represent you if needed.
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I so agree with Margaret and Lealonnie about this. Get out, carefully and legally with a good lawyer. It’s worth paying to ensure you don’t become a victim of her actions. She is continuing her lifelong abusive behavior, unfortunately.
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None of this scam sounds legal in the slightest to me. With mom having $250k she's hiding from Medicaid and you enabling it as her POA, I'd get some legal advice right away from a reputable attorney, not one who's versed in how to get free benefits for wealthy clients. These types of things always come back to bite us, so get legal advice asap.
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igloo572 Sep 3, 2024
Imo She is not hiding it from LTC Medicaid. Rather it’s that that atty who the mom hired was able to use the several legit options that FL allows. And it appears the atty made it several different ones. Probably paid handsomely. Probably some of the things done will require the mom or her heirs or Trustees to go back to this same law firm.

But I do think that either the atty &/or the this mom screwed the daughter in all this legal as there’s no mention by the OP of an Enhanced Benefit Deed / Enhanced Life Estate Deed aka a Lady Bird Deed that was done. FL is one of the handful,of States that even allows for these & if I’m not mistaken with immediacy so do it today and manana file for LTC Medicaid and no transfer penalty. I think MI does this too.

OP as a suggestion Google Lady bird deed to see what I’m referring to. By doing one mom could totally have it set up for her home to completely transfer to you outside of probate with no pesky Medicaid recovery/ recoup concerns. No need for house to be placed into a Trust either.
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I think you definitely need your own legal advice on this. I find your current legal situation difficult to square with what I have read about Medicaid, even though you were told that it’s ‘legal in Florida’. I’m not surprised that the ‘Medicaid lawyer won’t answer your questions’! Anything you do or don't do may have ‘legal implications’.

In your shoes I would get out of any personal involvement in this ASAP, with legal advice (for YOU not for M) to protect yourself. Leave M to her own new lawyer, don’t get sucked into correspondence about it. Treat the whole deal as a new form of her being “mentally & physically abusive” to you. It reminds me of the old expression 'mad, bad and dangerous to know'.
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