My spouse accepts the junk mail we receive as truthful. What do we do?

I had an aunt who was a paranoid recluse. She lived in awful conditions. She kept all her possessions in large metal garbage cans - when she passed there were well over 35 of them, thats where I stopped counting. Anyhow - many were filled with brand new, still in the plastic, cloths from Eddie Bauer - none in her size and mainly sweatpants and henleys. I kid you not, there were hundreds and hundreds of pieces. After my family members each selected a life time supply we made several shelters very happy! The only thing we can figure is that calling the 1-800 ordering line and then recieving the stuff in the mail was her main link to the outside world.

Ah yes, the magazines renewal notices. We have another year to go with People, Time and the National Geographic! At least NG and Time are fairly worthwhile reads and I confess I do like People when I have the time. I take them to mom - she doesn't read them so eventually they come back to my house or end up in the NH common areas. The thing my mom kept falling for was the insert inside of People. In large letters " 4 free issues" in tiny letters "with paid subscription". She'd mail the card in to get her "free" magazines, the bill would come and she pay it over and over. People is winding down after a three year run for mom. (Sigh)

Ohhh--this is my mother to a T. I was cleaning for her and found she had boxes and boxes of Publisher's Clearing House envelopes-with ALL the inserts still. She insisted that she keep all the paperwork, because if she "won" she'd need it. This is a battle I lost. I bought plastic bins, filled them with this garbage and labeled it "VERY IMPORTANT PAPERS" with PCH written on them Every so often, my brother burns these papers or recycles them. 20 years worth of crap...she told me this was my "inheritance".....I know ONE woman who recently won $10 in the PCH. This is in my entire life!

Mom is otherwise fairly savvy about giving away money, but she will buy things for people with a sob story, and gave thousands of dollars to my eldest brother and youngest sister.

She still gets a ton of junk mail and despite my telling her how very, very little goes to the actual cause, she will give to any and all charities. Not to the point of becoming destitute herself, but waaay too much. At this point there is nothing we can do as she pays her own bills and such, and balances her checkbook--but the time is coming when we'll have to step in.

She also buys something almost everyday--mostly clothes from catalogs. Waiting for those to come is her main source of entertainment. As long as she's competent, there is nothing we can do to stop her.

I'm wondering if your loved one really ever reads all those books or magazines. If the person reads them, I can see maybe one subscription of books and one subscription of magazines, (no more than two subscriptions).

Sometimes you can even find free outdated magazines in public lobbies, (just look for the dates on the old magazines). You don't want to take any current ones, just the old ones. If you feel you should ask, do so and mention the date on the magazine you wish to take. It may very well turn out they won't mind if it's expired. The old magazines always vanish at some point anyway, and you never know how many of them probably end up in the trash. Another place you can get old magazines is from friends and family. You can actually take pictures from old magazines and make collages.

Libraries can lend out books free of charge. You can also watch for library book sales. At some point toward the end of a book sale, the library may start selling books by the bag, or even by bulk as much as you can carry (for one low price). when you attend these books sales, take as big of a tote as absolutely possible such as huge pieces of luggage, and other very large bags and boxes. You don't want to carry a cardboard box because the bottom can easily fall out. Instead, take a huge plastic bin if you want that many books. If the rules are that you must be able to actually carry the bulk, take as strong of a person as possible with you, (the stronger the better, the more the merrier).

Sometimes public places such as a coffeehouse may have a sitting area, and some of those sitting areas may have tables with books where are you can take one and leave one. Yes, you can trade off books for new ones in some places. Just go through all of the books and donate what do you know longer read, and just swap one for another. Booklovers really appreciate book swaps because it saves money on buying a brand-new expensive book and gives them a chance to read something other than what they had before.

Knowing all of this is why your loved one need not subscribe to anything. If you go for guardianship and take over everything for them (including finances), they'll can't squander money.

I used to get those mailings you mentioned years ago but just a few pieces of mail. I never fell for any of the scams and I'm glad I didn't really have much money anyway. Sometimes being poor has perks when all you have is enough to pay bills and buy groceries. What's leftover must carry you through the rest of the month. Not having much money means you don't fall for any of those scams because you just "don't have it".

If you ever find yourself in a situation where you're always giving or lending out money, this can drain you financially if you're not careful. When you lend money, it's been said that you may just as well consider it a gift because you may never see it again if it's just a loan. In the event of large amounts being owed to you, you can go to small claims court if it's under a certain amount, but you would probably need a different type of court for bigger amounts depending on your situation. If you're situation turns out you really need that money back, the judge can order it, and not following a court order can land someone in big trouble for noncompliance of a court order. In the event you have guardianship though, you really don't want to give or lend money you may need for the ward's care and basic necessities. Planning ahead for final disposition is also a smart move because this can be done through preneed planning. When there are enough plans for the money, there's no room to squander.

What would really be helpful is a federal statute addressing predatory tactics, and providing that all solicitors (including the alleged charities) provide large print opt-out information in their 6 page solicitations probably written by Beltway Bandits for thousands of dollars.

Failure of the solicitor to abide after 2 notices from the recipient of the unwanted mail would result in penalties imposed by perhaps the Consumer Protection Agency. Those penalties would be allocated for MOW grants, Area Agencies on Aging, and other elder supported legitimate activities.

But try getting a legislator to even consider something like that - all the so-called charities as well scammers would descend on D.C. like a plague of locusts, spend millions of dollars lobbying, and nothing would result except more funds in legislator's coffers.

The Post Office might even join in, as it gains revenue from all the junk mail.

Go to every website you can find to sign up to stop the junk mail going to her address. It helps some.
Also sign up for the "do not call" list; another place they like to target seniors is on the phone. I used the "stop junk mail" myself and it has helped.
Also, complain to the companies sending the stuff. I complained to some of her 27 magazine subscriptions (!) sending those "renew today" mailers and she would pay every one of them she got. Some subscriptions were five years paid out,others three years, and so on. When I explained her mental issues, they agreed to stop sending them to her by mail, but allowed that the magazines sometimes contain them and they aren't able to single those out.
For her subscriptions, I also got her account numbers and set myself up as the account holder through email; that allows me to see the accounts and what's going on and I can stop anything suspicious being paid by a check and stop any "book club" sign ups.

this is so very sad! Why do they do this? My Dad gets the emails all the time and he falls for all the scams. He has sent money orders to these people before. Unfortunately there is no way to stop any of this. My Mom could take away the computer but then what would he do? We have tried to block them from him but he always finds a way to get more. Then they started calling the house and his cell phone. My mom got a new cell phone number for him but now my Dad has given them his new phone number.

Cpegaso - thank you so much for the detailed information. You are so right though, about them finding a way. When I changed my moms address to my own when she first went into a NH for a blissful week or two there was none of these requests. Then to my utter amazement they started to trickle in - and not with a yellow forwarding sticker but with my moms name with my address nicely printed on the envelope. I have no idea how they found it/her but they did and in less than a month I was getting the dozen- plus daily requests! So yes, they are very resourceful! We are now at close to nine months without sending a check and I actually think I'm seeing a decline in the amount. But like everything in life - some days are better than others!

As a retired Postal Worker we had the same problem with my mother when she lived alone 200 miles away. She would receive, this is no exaggeration, over a foot of mail every day. Organizations wanting money, fortune tellers, every money grubbing leach you could imagine and maybe 5 pieces of 1st class mail. Bulk mail or 3rd class mail and 2nd class mail will not be returned so don't bother wasting your time. You have a few options. There is a postal form you can fill out to have bulk mail stopped, but this does not always work. If there is a way around it these organizations will find it. However if you order something from any of them they do sell you name & address to others. 2nd option is to get a P O Box. Only 1st and 2nd class mail is forwarded. There again if you order something your bulk mail will begin piling up in your box. 3rd option, most drastic option, is to move. Same option as P O Box, same result. 4th options is to have their mail, if you are POA, forwarded to your residence. That way you can take their 1st class mail to them, personally. Depending on their independence, that may or not work or just tick them off, your decision. We move mom in with us and all but 1st class mail stopped. She was shelling out over $7,000 a year and dipping into her stocks and bonds to pay her bills. I put an end to that quickly when I found out. Good luck everyone.

Lassie - tell me about it! When my mom would start to complain about the phone calls I would try to explain to her how it connected with her writting all those charity checks - didn't work. Don't even get me started on what came next - trying to show her how caller ID worked on her phone. I swear I almost had an aneurism over that one.

Rainmom, your story is identical to mine. It all started with The Publishers Clearinghouse Sweepstakes. You are then put on a sucker list, a mailing list, sold to other mailing lists, and the letters and sweepstakes and charities and begging letters come flooding in. I would smuggle at least 20 or 30 out at every visit. Oh, it was a nightmare. Hundreds of dollars a month were spent, and (then the scam artists started calling. Three times, five times, ten times a day. $400 lost there.) And there is NO REASONING WITH THEM. Their brains are deteriorating and there is no reasoning with them. I found boxes and boxes of letters all over the house! It was a nightmare.

GrandpaDan, here's another suggestion, but it takes some effort and research.

Michigan's anti-stalking statute is fairly broad, and includes unwanted contact as grounds for requesting injunctive relief. I haven't nor do I have the software to do research to determine how unwanted contact is defined, narrowed or expanded, but I define it to include contact by phone or mail (as well as personal contact), whether from an unwanted male or female, or a company trying to get a solicitation.

So I've used it to threaten repeated junk mail offenders, advising them very sweetly that Michigan allows an individual to request a PPO (personal protection order) against someone based on the provisions of the anti-stalking statute.

I further advise them that 2 contacts, as defined in the statute, is all that is required to request a PPO. Granted that I doubt I could get a judge to issue a PPO against Publisher's Clearing House or the charities, but it has worked with a few of the solicitors, especially the political ones who are so aggressive and offensive.

If they haven't hung up on me by that time, I also use terminology we used when I worked in transactional law during real estate downturns - I comment that I can and will use "any and all recourse available to me." That could, e.g. include a wide variety of actions, not necessarily legal ones specifically, including posting on social media, on change.org, reporting to the BBB, reporting to the Attorney General, asking the IRS to investigate if the charity is in fact a 501(c)(3) as stated and is in compliance.

I do recall it did work with a few of the aggressive one.

Love the idea of sending these pain in the a$$ charity request back to one of the charities. Don't get me wrong about charitable giving - hubby and I have a selected three we support locally but sheez, dozens a day in the mail! Some of these send small amount stamps as incentive to respond - think I'm going to start saving them up then spring for a large envelope and mail back a load. I think it will provide me with a little smug satisfaction and a giggle. On a side note - I have a huge container I put my loose coin in and am planning to fill it to the top, cash it out and then give the money to one of our local charities - probably the near by animal shelter. Anyhoo - many of the charity request that come in the mail also include coins as an incentive to give. I don't feel right keeping it nor throwing it out so into the container it goes. The container is 11" high and 21" around - now 1/2 full and I can barely lift it. I'm so anxious to get it filled and see how much it is!

Correction: The 6th paragraph should have read:

"Correction: 6th paragraph, should read:

" it does NOT get paid for it, and it has enough financial issues to deal with w/o returning junk mail."

RareFind, you're referring to situations blending junk mail and debt collection mail; the OP and most of the posts referred to the former.

The debt collection letters you've received might have been sent by first class mail. Junk mail generally is not first class mail. If you were to do a change of address, the junk mail would not be forwarded; that's been my experience.

I raised the issue with my father's mail carrier, an outstanding, excellent, compassionate and thoughtful woman who often brings Dad's mail directly up to his door instead of putting it in the mailbox at the edge of the road.

She said the same thing; they just throw away mail marked "refused, return to sender." One of the local post offices in my area even has a large wastebasket right by the post office mail boxes marked "junk mail" so people can just dump the junk mail in when they pick up their mail. And they do.

Sometimes the political solicitations are sent by bulk mail as well. It's been decades since I've worked with bulk mail, but there are requirements for volume - i.e., a dozen or so letters couldn't be sent by bulk mail. As I recall, a permit is required, but that only includes mail to recipients; I don't believe it includes postage for returned mail.

So the post office really has no incentive or justification to return junk mail - it does get paid for it, and it has enough financial issues to deal with w/o returning junk mail.

What can be done though is to use the SASE envelopes included by some junk mailers, fill them full of junk mail to the point of being stuffed like a turkey, and mail it. That's what I do. Then that junk mailer gets an envelope full of someone else's solicitations.


Once when I was getting fed up with political solicitations, I put a computer printed address label to the opposite political party over my own address and dumped it back in the mail. It was returned to me with the notation that I needed to provide postage to "forward" it to the other political party. So from then on I cut my name out, replaced it with a blank card and put the computer printed label over it before I dumped it back in the mail box.


As to the debt issues, I hope you're familiar with the Fair Debt Collections Practices Act and are citing it with the apparent harassment mail you've been getting. But returning debt collection notices is playing with fire. When you get an initial notice, you must respond w/i 30 days to challenge the debt or it's assumed the debt is valid.

If you send back that first notice w/o challenging it, the statutes allows the presumption that the debt is valid, and you can expect the debt collector will really start hounding you.

All I know is what my mail carrier told me. In addition, about a year ago I had a similar conversation with the mail carrier for my moms retirement community and he said the same thing - for the most part - we were discussing ways to try to get the requests to stop and he said rejecting the mail wouldn't work as it doesn't make its way back to the send. A politically correct way of saying the post office destroys it? Same state different city.

Rainmom, is it possible that maybe the mail carriers in your state operate differently than the ones in Ohio? I can't tell you how many times I would get mail returned to me because the address to which it was sent was no longer valid or the person was no longer there. I can tell you that one time the magazine situation was definitely effective because I know the magazine company definitely got the magazines back, and I've returned many bills and letters from creditors who were harassing me for more money than I could actually afford to pay on a bill that was only mounding. When they started harassing me despite my best effort to explain my financial situation and that I'm doing the best I can, that's when they kept harassing me and I had to start returning all correspondence and asking them to please not contact me anymore. I know they got those letters back, because the correspondence stopped at my request. I can only pay those bills as I could afford in the amounts I could afford. Some of those amounts were actually too much and I had to pay what I could in the amount that was more manageable. I don't think it's right that companies take advantage of people with limited income and heap unfair fees and interest, making bills unmanageable to the point that the person can't just can't pay them. These are the letters I always returned and included a note as an open embarrassment to all the mail carriers who would see that letter. All you can do is the best you can, but it's very possible your mail carriers may operate differently than ours, because ours will never throw out mail meant for return. This is why I strongly suspect that your mail carriers operate by a different policy in your area from what you described.

GrandPa Dan, look up gambling addiction and see if there are some similarities in what you observe in your wife with the problems addicts experience.
The risk of developing a gambling addiction doubles for people who live within 10 miles of a casino and your poor wife's demon is as close as the mail box. Try to protect your finances as others have recommended but look to see if you can get some insight on why people gamble and recognize that she might have a problem that will take some work to overcome.

Oooops, your wife sir, not mom. Sorry! M88

Jessie Belle!

You're a genius!

The local
Animal shelter, aka dog/cat pound would absolutely benefit!

Mom could even accompany you there to drop off the donation. She can see where her $ is going.

I'm sure there's a women's shelter, etc. locally so funds will not be abused.

M88

Actually no, Rarefind. I just had this conversation with my mail carrier last week. He was bringing a package to the door and I thought it was a good opportunity to apologize for the masses of charity mail. We talked for a bit - most charity requests are second class mail. It you write "return to sender" and resubmitt it, the post office merely throws it away.
Blackdog - lol, our story is even more similar. My mom had searched for her perfect church for years and believed she'd found it. Small group, always poor, always having fund raisers. My mother was probably one of the most well off in the congregation. They were forever getting mom to give them large sums of money - this was before she had any signs of dementia so I just had to bite my tounge. Fast forward a few years - mom had a hip replaced and they helped her out a bit and mom kept on giving. Fast forward a few more years and mom was getting more eccentric than usual plus had lost her drivers licence. So mom asked for someone to pick her up and take her to church. No dice. No more invites to church book club, no more visits etc. yet the phone calls and letters asking her for money just kept coming. Once a year when they would hit her up for several thousand two people would show up for the full court press. Finally mom said - " you'll have to talk to my daughter, she takes care of my money now". Never heard from them again. The really funny part was that unbeknownst to them mom had put them in her will for six digits. Once they stopped coming around mom changed her will and cut them out. If they only knew! Lol!!!

Possibly for "normal" mail.....mis-delivered....but not for "junk " mail....

I hate to tell you this, but yes they still do a return to sender! I do them every so often, especially if I happen to get someone else's mail by mistake.

Ummmm....actually the P.O. hasn't done the "return to sender" or anything else for years....esp. w/junk mail.....I did look into this....5 years ago....for my Mom's problem ....you are, sadly, on your own....

Oh yes, I definitely forgot to mention something:

* If you're getting other junk mail, you can actually mark "return to sender" on it. You can do this even with creditors who are hounding you for more money than you can afford. You can even write a nasty note on the envelope saying, "Hey creditor! Stop hounding for money!" You can actually return the bills to unsecured accounts that are considered low priority (by law). Only do this if creditors keep hounding you and you don't have enough money after bills and groceries along with other immediate household needs. Putting a nasty note on a piece of junk mail is actually an open embarrassment to the sender because every carrier who happens to see it will know there's a problem, which is why you want to use this trick to raise awareness to the problem. Everyone who sees it will most likely warn others, which is what you want because people do socialize and the word does get around sometime.

* You also need to become very familiar with the fair debt collection practices act, this is very informative. If predators are hounding you over the phone, you can verbally ask them to please not call anymore, then hang up. The same trick goes for those telemarketers.

GrandpaDan....I so feel your pain....some good suggestions here....seriously hope they help you....

Rainmom....Your story is my story, almost exactly, right down to the 2 year struggle....Add to that, my Mom left the Catholic church at 87 YO because she was, quite rightfully, disgusted w/the abusing priest scandals (that tells you how strong-willed and independent she has always been....I mean, really, who age 87 leaves the church she's known her whole life???....My strong, ethical Mom, that's who....and, yes, she lost friends over this decision, BUT, she was her usual, determined self)....she joined the local Episcopal Church....loved it....I would go w/her whenever I was visiting (I'm1800 miles away).....then my brother tells me that when he was visiting, he took Mom to a church outing where they were giving a home to one of their members, apparently he had disabilities.....how nice another church member had willed this residence to the church....but my brother said it was weird....the guy was young....yesss...he had physical disabilities but seemed together mentally....yet he had no job....he was going to move into a large house w/large yard....who was going to pay for maintenance....taxes....how did this work????

2 weeks later and the pastor requests a meeting w/Mom....now I'd taken Mom to a wonderful geriatrician and she'd been dx'd w/MCI at this point....but she was (Thank God...no pun intended) still mostly in her right mind.....just losing/misplacing things which caused her anxiety....the pastor wants to know....will she consider donating her beachfront condo to the church in her will....NO....he didn't want a generous donation....he wanted her d*mn condo, even tho he knew....he'd met us!! !.....that she had 3 kids!!!!

Mom said NO...Absolutely Not!....she then called us in tears that night....I don't believe I've ever felt worse...poor Mom!...She was beyond upset and rightly so....but she was very articulate about the conversation w/the pastor...My brother, of course, was outraged, confronted the pastor, who denied the whole thing....but I believe my bro and my Mom.....esp. after bro's story....WOW....

And just a disclaimer FWIW....it's not about inheritance....my sibs and I are fine and will be fine even if Mom has to sell the condo for her LT Care....that's the point: it's hers....period....

GA....the d*mn political fund raising calls start at 7AM....these people are calling a 90+ YO woman....

What has happened to our society when these things happen daily??? Sorry...rhetorical Q....still....

Part two:

From what you described, this is exactly what it sounds like you may be getting, that or something very similar. They would promise that you would be entered into a drawing and have a chance to win money just by purchasing from their magazines. They may even send you a letter stating that only paying customers have any standing with them. This is just a trick to get you to give them money for stuff you don't need. I used to get these all the time and I never fell for any of them. Another time an offer was sent to me for a free sample of a magazine. I only ordered the free sample, not a subscription. The magazines started coming once a month. I would look at them until I started getting billed for something I didn't order beyond the sample. When the letters started coming, I pulled a little trick of my own. What I did was remove the little card insert in one of the magazines. I then taped it to the front of one of the magazines. My next step was to stack all of the magazines and tape them together, making sure the one with the card was on top of the stack. I was sure to also return the sample along with the bills and the letters and I even stated on one of them that I "did not order". I think if I recall right, I had the sample on the bottom of the stack with a note stating that I only ordered the sample. I then dropped it in the mailbox and the best thing about the postage is that it read "no postage necessary if mailed in the US". I never heard from them again, and if you get magazines, you can do the same thing I did.

As for telemarketers, Google the words opt out. Register your phone number and reply to the email to confirm your request. If the telemarketers continue calling, you can go on the Federal Trade Commission website and file a complaint.

OK, I have a few tricks up my sleeve:

* If you haven't already done so, have you ever thought of just removing her name from the joint bank account (if any)? You can actually open a separate account just for her, and if she gets her own money, have her put her money into her account. That way, your money will be safe in your account, especially if you're the one paying the regular mandatory bills. Practicing this little trick well assure you won't go broke because of her. If she has a habit of overspending, this can actually threaten your own livelihood and even your ability to keep a roof over your head as well as get food and other necessities.

* Next time she lays the checkbook somewhere, take it away and destroy it. You can actually run a bank account without a checkbook, I've done so for several years and I really like it. There are many places that no longer accept checks, so this works out very well since checks have actually become obsolete. Instead of checks, you can set up automatic online bill pay and have your bills paid automatically out of your account. Whatever day your check direct deposits to your account is the same day you want your bills going out. That way, you know your bills are paid without you doing anything, but always set this up from your end and never let anyone have access to your bank account. This is done by just not giving any bank information to anyone.

* Maybe what you may want to do is go for guardianship, this would give you control over all aspects of your spouse's life, including finances. Just make sure you give the spouse at very least a very small allowance each month so she realizes the concept of money. You can set up a separate bank account for her that comes with a debit card, and whatever is on that card is all she can spend if you set it up correctly by asking the banker to not let the account overdraft. This would be the task of a personal banker or maybe even the manager but not the teller. You want to try to avoid using these other cards that are not tied to your bank because they charge fees where is your bank does not unless you visit an ATM not tied to your bank. These are ATM fees you really want to avoid by only using your banks ATM if you want cash, but if you have an ATM card you can run it as credit, why carry cash? If you don't carry cash, there's no cash to handover in case a robber ever approaches you. I don't really carry cash much anymore myself, and it's really a good thing.

* As for the mail scams coming to your home, if you have a trusted family member, ask that family member if it's OK to have the mail forwarded to their house. Explain the situation, and if they say yes, definitely have the junk mail forwarded to that address instead of your own.

* If possible, try to avoid expensive PO boxes. Yes, they've become very expensive over the years, and if you're on fixed income, this is an expense you definitely can't afford if you don't get much money. You really need to save as much money as absolutely possible, and following all of these tips will definitely help you a lot because you'll see a huge difference by the end of the month (if you manage the money correctly).

* Another thing you can do is pay attention to what time the mail carrier delivers your mail and be out there at the mailbox to collect the mail yourself just passed suggested here. You can then have control over all the mail, and if you have a paper shredder, you can shred all of the junk mail that fits through the shredder. Some of the better ones are also card shredders that permit you to shred unwanted credit cards if you decide you no longer want to use them. Regular credit cards come with exorbitant prices to use them because you're paying an off a lot of interest that you don't need to be paying if you're on fixed income and don't have much money. Americans are actually starting to be more careful with their money, and I think people are starting to wise up and realize what kind of hole they're digging for themselves.

* As for charity giving, i'll tell you what one person I currently know does about once a year. She actually catches things on sale, including pet food. About once a year she takes the pet food down to a local shelter and drops it off. That way, she knows her money is being used for a reputable cause because she has control over where that money goes. I strongly agree there are many charities to whom we should not be giving our money, and I strongly agree that so many of them are definitely scams.

* To be honest with you, you actually need your money worse than those charities do. You need that money, they don't. In other words, they don't need that money near as bad as you do. I'm sure they get plenty of money from some other source that helps keep them open and operating. This is why they don't really need your money.

* One thing I used to get in the mail many years ago is from publishers clearing house.

Rainmom, Great question! I save them for a while then toss em.
He once was waiting for the "free gift" that came with his donation
and he called the organization so I got caught. That's when I decided to save them for a while.

Yogagirl - just curious, do you mail them?