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Your husband is gaslighting you.

He will do whatever it takes, what has he done?

I would tell my mom to treat my wife and daughter with respect in THEIR home or she could live in that car she is so attached to.

He is a coward when it comes to his mommy or she would have been gone or treating you and your daughter better.

Next time your daughter comes crying because grandma is evil enough to try to traumatize her, pack a bag and tell your husband you will be back when psycho b is gone.
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BlackHole Jul 2019
Amen.
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HE won't allow?

I suggest you take your daughter someplace safe for the summer and let him figure this out.
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PowerOf3 Nov 2019
I’m with Barb, you and your child should stay with some friends or family and let him handle her. He’ll figure it out real fast he’s going to lose his family and be stuck with her!
If she’s competent enough to commit fraud (and yes I’d call your credit card companies to contest the charges), vandalism (on your personal property) and verbal assault (on your child about you) she is plenty capable of handling her finances or lack thereof.
Its going to be hard for you but you need to make your husband choose!
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I just thought of something truly mean but effective. Start with formal eviction proceedings. Then on the day that she's required to move, but doesn't, while she's away at work, change the locks and throw out her stuff onto the driveway. When she comes back, if she doesn't leave with what she needs to live on for a few days, call the cops. Have her physically removed. Oh and make sure your landlord knows what's going on as it's the landlord's property.
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Grandma1954 Jul 2019
Not sure what state you are in but I live in Illinois and you can not remove belongings the Sheriff has to do that. After the court hearing for the eviction there is a date set for the person to vacate if they do not the Sheriff is the one that permits the removal of personal belongings.
Pleas check the laws in your State, or County before you toss belongings on the driveway. Same with changing the locks.
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What she needs is psychological help for being a thief. Your husband's lucky he hasn't been fired yet for missing work because of her! She needs to move and your husband needs to address her issues as an adult. I'd say help your husband get a backbone and kick her out. Her behavior is criminal and she needs to face the consequences of it. Press charges after you've installed cameras catching her in the act of vandalizing your property.
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Eviction. Avoidance.
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Oh, boy. I’m so sorry. Maybe she needs to be in custody, if she’s vandalizing your personal property. I would think that would technically be against the law. And “accidentally” charging her doctor bills to your account sounds fraudulent, though I don’t really know how health accounts work. Seriously, what will she think of next? Slashing your tires?

I feel like this really should be your husband’s problem, but you may have to do the legwork of finding her a place. In my state waiting lists for decent senior housing are very long. Maybe you can find her a small apartment or even a room for her to rent while she’s waiting.

Your husband may well be good and kind, but he’s also kind of wimping out by allowing his mother to engage in behavior that makes his wife and daughter miserable. He’s a husband and father before he is a son.
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gdaughter Jul 2019
Filing charges would be a way to get her arrested and out...but then she will have to deal with hubby. Is this marriage destined to fail? Hope not...
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Oh wow.. your state has parental responsibility laws so yeah, I’d be concerned that she knows and might manipulate the situation. Your husband won’t “put her on the streets” so your best bet might be asking for his help in a solution. I think I’d be promoting the benefits of living independently to her daily to encourage her getting her own place. The financial cost to supporting her in that endeavor might be well worth it for your family.

Sorry I don’t have much advice but I really do hope you and your family can find a solution that works for all of you 🙂
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You don't have to have dementia to be crazy. You don't have to live with crazy. It is time she is removed from your home. So this should now be a legal issue.
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Everything I think of suggesting you've already tried. Charging to your account was a crime, not to mention the fact you'll have to reimburse the account since she wasn't covered.
I suggest a counselor for you & your husband. A complete outsider with training in the human psyche might be able to suggest ways to not only handle her, but get her out of your lives.
I'm so sorry you're having to live this.
Hang in there, praying for you!
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Lymie61 Jul 2019
Not sure reimbursing the account shouldn't be the doctors responsibility since they charged an account that doesn't belong to the patient without proper consent. If these are doctors that are only caring for MIL I would address it with them first, that not only may take care of the missing funds but it will alert them to some of her issues and perhaps get them more on board with delving deeper into her mental health and well being.
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Just read about you being locked out... Has this woman ever threatened you? Or your daughter? Does she have any history of violence? If you are in any way feeling unsafe in your home, is 911 an option?

Where I live, we call 000 for emergencies. If it's a mental health situation, a special crisis assesment team comes out. Off to hospital for eval if required. Not sure what criteria is though... acting dangerously psychotic is a long way from her current manipulative & anti-social behavior.

If there is ANY threat - could you involved the police/911? I realise you may not want the neighbours to witness this...

I think I would visit my local Police Station for advice & a chat. I'd warn I may have to call them as my house 'guest' has very anti-social behaviour & I am concerned for my daughter's safety.
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Either the Dr is wrong and she needs re-assessing - of course if you are right who is going to pay for her care? But at least you would know. Or this is one of the worst cases of manipulation and narcissism I have heard of hear or anywhere. However she is 78 you seem to have some strange ideas of what a 78 year old should be doing. Her behaviour is unacceptable if she has full cognitive ability but your expectations of her getting a job are (to me) also unacceptable. Where did she live before moving in with you? Who paid costs of that? Lots of questions here.
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Jomichelle Jul 2019
She was living on her own and working full time before coming to stay with us. I’m very sorry she didn’t save for retirement, but we aren’t responsible for her... we have our own young child to raise, student loans to pay, and retirement to save for. If she doesn’t work, how will she live? Both of my grandmothers owned businesses and ran them well into their 80’s. My dear aunt is just two years younger than this woman and is a tenured professor.
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I'm not sure what the solution will be, but at this point, I recommend that you start documenting! A word document on the computer (as long as she has no access) or even a simple spiral bound notebook will do. Date and time, and description of what occurred, dialogue as best you recall, any others in the room or involved.

No matter what you have to do down the road, having these records will help tremendously.

{{{Hugs}} to you, this is just a sucky situation and you seem to be bearing the brunt of it :(
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Read about Narcissistic personality Disorder. Not dementia but far uglier.
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Teri4077 Jul 2019
Yes, that was my thought, too. And looking back at her history it sounds like it has been there all along.....
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She has been evaluated and she is free of dementia.That doesn 't mean she is clear of mental issues. These mental issues cannot be completely new? I cannot imagine why you have taken her in. You say you are a young family. I am guessing you are 20s, 30s and she is 50s? I am late 70s and completely independent. She is making a nightmare out of your life. IF the answer is to find the place and pay for the deposit, the DO IT. In the longrun it will be CHEAP at that price, and she will be gone. I would see an attorney if that doesn't work. If it is legal to pack up her things and place them in storage, give her the key, and change the locks then that is what I would do. Your life is sounding like a real bad Lifetime movie right now. I sure do wish you luck. No normal Mom would do this to their kids, and at this point I couldn't care less WHAT her reasons are. A diagnosis of Dementia? You are very LUCKY there isn't one, so step away from that. That put you in a real bind. If she cannot afford to fix a tire she sure can't afford the 3,000 and up a month for assisted living, nor would she want to go to it. They have rules.
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TaylorUK Jul 2019
She is 78, this household needs to reassess expectations on both sides, and needs,
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I first would talk to the Drs office and tell them u did not give permission for Mom to use ur card and that u should have been called for permission. Tell them ur not responsible for Moms bills. Call every doctor she goes to.
Also, tell the Doctor what she has been doing out of spite. This is a mental thing.

I looked back at the previous posts. I suggested you look into Senior HUDD housing. They require 30% of her income for rent. She would be responsible for electric, TV and food. TV you can get a antenna so no cable cost. She can get food stamps. The car has to go. She can't afford it. Sr housing may have transportation for residents.

Why does she only receive $500 a month. Was she married before? How long? If over 10 yrs she is entitled to something of her exs. If a widow, calculations are based on his income too. When did she start collecting? If she has continued to work, she maybe entitled to more money. My GF just did this. Take her to ur local SS office. If its in with Social Services, then talk to them too. Since her SS is not that high, she may qualify for SSI, its like welfare.

Sorry, but it looks like you are going to have to do the work if u want her out. First, find that HUDD senior building. Put her name in now. Call the local Office of Aging and see what info they have.

I would whisper in her ear if she doesn't stop destroying ur clothing and anything else, you are going to have her declared mental and have her placed in a NH on meds. 😊

At 78 she is not going to be able to work forever. You have to do something now. Your new health problem could be aggravated by stress. Stress may have contributed to it.

Stick by ur guns. All u owe her is a roof over her head and food. The rest comes down to if she can't afford it, then she doesn't get it. If she wants a certain food that you don't eat, then she needs to buy it. She needs to give u money for it before u buy it.

I might tell the neighbors that you would have bought Mom the tire but she shouldn't be driving and a flat tire was a good excuse to keep her from driving. Play her game.
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Jomichelle Jul 2019
I was able to get her on two HUD low-income housing lists — she is number 102 on one list and 616 on the other. We’ve been told that best case scenario it is an 18 month waiting list for the first and 3-4 years for the other. We signed up for a senior roommates housing match site and she refused the two matches she got, saying she “wasn’t going to live with no stranger.”
To clarify, she gets a $392 pension and $1,050 from social security, of which $240 is deducted for back taxes to the IRS and another $126 is deducted for Medicare. This leaves her with about $1,000 income. She absolutely refuses to get rid of her car, and the payment is $400-something. Her insurance is another $200. She was supposed to give us $500 rent, but that is obviously counterproductive since we then end up paying for everything else. She now has a little job, which should net her about another $800 a month. She is perfectly capable now of buying her own food, gas, medications, incidentals.
She was briefly married to a terrible man (not my husband’s father — in fact, she ran away from my husband’s real father when she was 8 months pregnant, went back to the loser boyfriend who had been in jail, named my husband after him, and subjected my husband as a child to this man’s abuse and lied and told him his real father didn’t want him... we found the real father when my husband was 32 and learned that was all a lie, but that’s another story). She has mismanaged her finances her whole life, saved nothing, has no assets or savings. And her stance is that it is my husband’s job to take care of her and support her financially in her old age. It’s madness.
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You can start eviction proceedings.

Or you can take your daughter and leave. This woman has psychiatric issues that your HUSBAND needs to acknowledge.

He set this up. HE should solve it.
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Jomichelle Jul 2019
I have told him that is a possibility — I’ve even told him I will leave just for the summer and go back to CT to give him time to get her out. He said he will not allow his family to live away from him and that he’ll do whatever it takes to get her out but he cannot just put her on the street. She knows he is good and kind and won’t force her out to the street, so she’s doing everything in her power to make sure we have no other option. I’m so furious that we’ve been put in this situation... my husband is the best husband I could’ve ever hoped for: he’s sweet and hardworking and just wants to give us everything we need or want, and he can never watch even a stranger in need, and she knows this and has chosen to exploit it. I hate the position he is in. It breaks my heart. But her time is up, she’s got to go. I think she may be mentally ill or the doctor is wrong and she does have dementia, and he knows this and cannot toss her on the street bc of it. Plus he works like 10-14 hours a day, and I think he really doesn’t know what to do. She doesn’t care about the chaos she’s causing us... everything is about HER, she is a professional victim and she lives for the sympathy of others.
I just got in a huge argument with her bc she “accidentally” locked me out of the house in the rain and pretended she didn’t hear me knocking on the door for 10 minutes (my 9 year old was in her room with headphones on). When I finally climbed in a window, I hollered at her and said “Really? You didn’t hear me knocking?” Ten minutes later my daughter comes upstairs crying and says “Grandma says you want her out and that she only cake here because she wanted to be close to me and you’re treating her like a child and making her go live in her car.” I flew into her room and said I have had enough, that it is beyond sick to do that to a child and it is the one thing that will absolutely make me pack her bags TODAY and put them in the street. She left for work an hour early, no doubt so she can go in there and play her little old lady with the evil daughter in law act at work so someone will give her something or buy her lunch or something.
This is complete bedlam. I cannot allow my child to see this behavior. I cannot allow my household and my family to fall apart because of this woman.
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Whoa!!! Is there some sort of evaluation that can be arranged pronto? Agency of Aging? (Sorry, I am not US).

Typical dementia, or ALZ will appears as memory problems but there are other types like Frontaltemporal lobe dementia & Lewy Body Disease that present differently. Could be more like a psychiatric problem - dependant personality, even narcisstic? Has she always been manipulative? Needs a professional to eval.

Wow. In a bad way wow. And your poor family needs her to move out asap. How to get a Social Worker on the case. Surely you have rights to evict her if it comes to that?
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Jomichelle Jul 2019
We are renting our house... I think it would be our landlord that would have to evict her and the whole thing would make us look so bad and we don’t want it to affect our rental history somehow.
I have called the Agency on Aging in our county. It took literally a month for someone to get back to me and the lady was very monotone and told us the best she could do is to get her in for a Needs Assessment but that she would have to agree to go. She said that since there’s no diagnosis and that the doctor doesn’t feel she has any issues, she wouldn’t be a priority. It was very much like “You are her family, you need to handle it.” There wasn’t a lot of sympathy... granted, I probably just sound like a bitter in-law.
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She needs to be kept busy, out of house, a job, Adult Day care. Being at home is probably boring to her with nothing to do.
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Jomichelle Jul 2019
I got her set up at the local senior center and pushed and pushed until she was going there daily and making some friends. The problem is that people everywhere get frustrated with her and some lady told her off at the senior center and she never returned. Now she has the job, so that should help
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