A salary was never specified in the documents my mom prepared before her stroke. My mom was organized, and had prepared these documents in case. They proved necessary, as she had a stroke almost 6 years ago. She named my oldest sister the POA. I'll call her "S". There are 4 of us girls. That just made sense since "S" was the oldest and lived closest. Although my mom is in a 24 hour/7 day a week nursing facility, the POA ("S") asked my 2nd oldest sister, ("D"), if she could receive a salary for her time. We were all distraught and of course "D" was happy that "S" was close in distance to be able to help my mom, and so of course said yes. The third oldest sister, ("L"), and me ("B"), were never consulted, so now "S" has been taking a salary for almost 6 years. "S" claims that maybe she hasn't been taking it the whole time, or maybe she just takes it when she needs it, but we have NO visibility and are left frustrated. My mom has a sizable estate, and we have NO idea what "S" has been doing. "D" and "B" (me) have been asking for copies of the financial records for months, maybe years. We know for a fact that my mom has listed all 4 of us as equal beneficiaries in her will, but we're afraid that "S" is decimating the estate, and using the funds however she sees fit, rather than discussing them with us. "S" is angry that we are even discussing money since my mom is still alive. She feels that we care more about the money than about my mom which is ludicrous. "S" is probably being responsible, but don't we have a right to know what is going on since we are beneficiaries of the estate? Since "S" won't share any of the financials, it gives us the impression that she is hiding something. What do we do?
Do you have any evidence at all that something is amiss. besides S not revealing what is happening with the finances? Is she living way beyond her means, for example? Is the salary she is taking way out of proportion to the tasks being performed?
S could easily put your minds at rest by providing some high-level overview of the finances, unless Mother is telling her not to. That she chooses not to may mean she is a control freak or loves the feeling of being in charge. Those attitudes don't win friends and influence family, but they are not illegal.
Using the funds however S sees fit is exactly what her appointment as POA entitles her to do AS LONG AS IT IS IN YOUR MOTHER'S BEST INTEREST. She does not need to consult with the beneficiaries of the will. She only has to do her best to act reasonably and on Mother's behalf. It is NOT your inheritance until your mother dies, remember.
Not your money. You have no legal say in how it is being managed, EXCEPT if it is being deliberately mismanaged and in effect stolen. Then it is a legal, criminal matter. But you'd better have better evidence than you've presented here before going to the authorities.
It does seem that way, from your post. The focus is on finding out what S is doing, not on your mother's welfare.
"S" is probably being responsible, but don't we have a right to know what is going on since we are beneficiaries of the estate?"
If she "probably" is, why are you concerned? What evidence do you have that she's not being responsible?
As beneficiaries of your mother's estate, you don't have any rights on that level until your mother dies. At this point it's really none of your business.
As to the two sisters not having been consulted as to the salary, why should you have been? It's your mother's money, not yours. S is responsible to your mother, not to you and your siblings.
But if you're really interested in not only what you'll be getting but how your mother's health is, why don't the 3 of you contact S and ask what you can do to help her care for your mother? Has that ever been done? Try a conciliatory approach and offer to help.
Frankly, if I were in S's situation, I would resent someone who's not helping wanting to know how I was handling mother's funds and assets.
Dealing with the payments for the nursing home... making sure the secondary health insurance payments are up-to-date, paying co-pays, yada, yada, yada.... size estate could also mean a lot of portfolio dealings with an accountant and stock broker. Reconciling the check book(s) and money markets. Or it could be like my Dad who has his stocks scattered all over instead of with one broker, and bank accounts with about 3 different banks. I hate balancing a checkbook, imagine dealing with 3 :P
Even putting together a finance report can be very time consuming, maybe your Mom's accountant can put something together for you and your sister, but there will be a cost for that service.
But Alarmed - just because your mother does not live with your sister do not assume for one minute that being her POA is easy! I have a saying that each of my brothers have heard: if you don't help, you don't get to critize
It was anything but fine or under control! Who had to drop everything and rescue his parents from ruin? My husband. I could go on and on about all the work but I won't because you can ask your sister. And lest you believe that your sister found a tidy, organized filing cabinet with everything she would need to handle your mother's affairs all color-coded and labeled, let me disabuse you of that fantasy right now. Like my husband, your sister probably found a hot mess that she had to organize before being able to prioritize the work. And guess what, Alarmed, problems beget baby problems that spring up all over the place. Like feral cats or bunnies, problems breed.
Forgive me when I say that your post sounded to me like you were interested more in your mother's estate than either her or your sister's well-being. Do you think it's fun to be POA? I suggest you ask your sister what a day for her is like and perhaps then you will empathize with the toll it must be taking on her. Is your sister married? If she is, then it's also taking a toll on her spouse. Does she have kids? Ditto. It's just money, it's not your money, and it's none of your business if your sister takes a small stipend. Your sister's time and energy are worth more than money so I suggest you tread lightly on what is a very sensitive and emotionally-charged subject.
It's unfortunate that more guidelines, oversight, or even a contract wasn't established with your POA sister before the situation reached the level it has now.
By-the-way: Our mother never put a salary into the POA form she signed. It was us sisters that agreed to a salary and we believe our sister is abusing that now. In addition, our mother's stroke was massive. She has not been able to talk or walk since day 1 almost 6 years ago. She is rather lucid, however these are not discussions we would ever have with her. She definitely is missing some brain cells and this is not a subject we would ever discuss in front of her.
If any of you have any insight for us that would be helpful, and not criticizing, we would most welcome that information. Thank you.
"earning a HUGE monthly salary".
You also wrote that it became an issue a year ago, but apparently wasn't for the first 4 years of the arrangement.
Without getting into more of what I see going on and being accused of criticism, rather than help, I would suggest that you get your own "big bad lawyer", as I think there are issues in this situation that mitigate against a resolution between your sisters and the one who is proxy under the POA.
BTW, I question the accuracy of this interpretation:
"We both have asked several times and were willing to take our mother to a nursing home closer to where each of us lives. Our sister, the POA would NEVER relinquish control. "
A DPOA doesn't normally address medical control. That would be in an Advanced Directive or Living Will.
You admit that these issues weren't a concern until last year.
So tread carefully. Reasonable, if sister spends time on Mom's financial affairs could be charged and justified at the rate of $125.00 an hour quite easily. Then how many hours? Salary implies 40 hours a week, is that what it actually is? Hopefully, sis is being reasonable or even generous with her time.
gardenartist: I know what salary she began with and negotiated for with me. I have no way of knowing what she took, for how long and what amount. What does this mean....."you admit that these issues weren't a concern until last year". It sounds like you're grilling me like an attorney would. What do you not understand? We live on the other side of the country. We do not see our sister on a regular basis and have no idea what car she drives until we are down there. Our mother has everything set up: my sister is involved in every medical decision that does not fall under the living will or advanced directive since our mother is in a nursing home, alive, yet unable to speak or walk. She has my sister, the POA to advocate everything for her.
gladimhere: again someone is telling us to tread carefully. We are just looking for a sign that our sister (POA) is alive! She says nothing to us. No communication whatsoever. So naturally our communication to her has also stopped. We both find it sad that she not only doesn't say a word to us, but that our sisterly bond has been permanently broken over these issues because of her unwillingness to even acknowledge any of our questions or concerns. There is no discussion, period! But she doesn't even say that there's no discussion! She just stays silent.
There are two types of POA Financial and health for starters. One has to assume that you contracted the POA a payment in some way - she must have some form of contract or she is taking money unlawfully. She MUST use the money in her mothers best interest too. A report to APS that you felt your sibling was spending money illegally would have APS looking into the matter so her big bad lawyer would have no say in it.
We have no picture to build here for any of us to offer a valuable comment on. Neither are we lawyers. Think of us more as people sat round a table having coffee.
As such we will have opinions. I am a POA and the terms of that POA are very clearly set out especially as to what I can (and cannot) spend money on. I can spend it on a car as long as I use it for Mum when I need to (I can also use it for other journeys too but in fairness if I do go out alone it is to buy things for Mum so that counts as though she were in the car with me). The only thing I have to pay for would be gas. As it happens I own a car but that is neither here nor there
There are two time periods here too - your mum had a stroke 6 years ago yet the car was used loan free for 5 years, and you only became concerned a year ago. Did your sister look after your mum for a period of time or is she still looking after her
If she is in care then despite your thoughts on it there will be bills to be paid visits to monitor that the money she spends on the care is be used properly and that your mother is well cared for. So she needs a car for that and why not use your mother's - she is using it in your mother's best interest, at a push even visits to your Mum which will be more often I suspect than you visit would allow her to use the car loan free.
If your mother is at home then please do not assume your sister will care for free either - she would be living on thin air if she did and if she wasn't financially sound then she would be destitute after 6 years - trust me I know this only too well. She will also need the car to get your Mum to doc appointments so why should she pay towards it.
She has a right to respite and for your Mum to pay for that and that doesn't come cheap let me tell you - it can run at twice the price of general care and that's only if your Mum WILL go if not it has to be in house care which at 168hours a week would be pretty hefty fees.
Like I said a lot of things we don't know so many of these comments may offend but your sister is there..... she is either caring or ensuring mother is cared for and depending on the time scales the costs of care will be prohibitive and there will be a massive spend if she is in a care facility depending on the level of care.
You see agreeing everything will be split 4 ways means splitting everything 4 ways and IF your sister has been doing the one on one care then it hasn't been split has it? I appreciate you can't split the care due to the distance factor but that being so you have to take it into account.
Some families are like your cousins' family. They work together and everybody knows everything. Some are like yours where the POA does not disclose information. Sometimes that is for good reason and sometimes it is suspicious.
Sometimes the non-POA siblings avoid any effort at helping. Sometimes they are very actively involved. Sometimes a non-POA sibling is the full-time caregiver. None of that matters regarding what the POA must disclose.
(If the POA were instead a guardian, there would be reporting requirements, but they would not necessarily be about reporting to the family, but to the court.)
The answer to whether POA HAS to share information within family is simply and definitely NO -- unless the POA document specifies otherwise. That may not seem prudent or fair or in the principal's best interest, but it is nonetheless true.
You seem ticked off that POA has had use of a car and you haven't. Do you know how she obtained that use? It is not illegal for an elderly person to give gifts to one of her children. Do you think this was coerced from her? Do you want mommy to give you a car, also? (When she deemed it no longer safe for her to drive, my aunt gave her car to her most needy son. Other family members objected on the grounds that it was a valuable vintage car that could be restored. All this brother was going to do with it was drive it. Aunt decided on the needy son anyway, figuring if one of the solvent kids wanted it they could buy it from him, restore it, and make a profit. No one did. I'm just pointing out that old folks make their decisions for lots of reasons.)
What you have here does sound like a potential legal issue. If you suspect that POA is doing things that are not in your mother's best interest, you need to take legal steps. I am so glad you have a friend who will look into this for you.
It would be wonderful if you would report back to us how this all works out.
Maybe it would have been better for your sister, as POA, to have sold the car and banked the proceeds for your mother's care --- a few thousand dollars in the bank, plus the savings on insurance, maintenance, fuel costs and so on. (How much was/is the car worth?) But then your sister would (I think) have been entitled to reimbursement for the cost of operating her own car on visits to your mother, errands for your mother, etc., at the rate of (I think) 23 cents per mile (fuel plus maintenance, depreciation, etc.)
I gather that you had accepted her getting the salary until you learned that she was getting this additional perk. So ---- this is the key question --- how much is she getting in salary? Or, if you fear she's taking more than was agreed on, what did you originally agree to? If we knew what you agreed to, it would be easier to assess how worried you should be.
The POA ends at death. The executor starts sorting out estate after death. The executor may or may not be the same as the POA. Is sis also executor?
By chance, is there a trust? If so then there may be reporting requirements within it that would provide for disclosure to other members of the trust. Again, there may or may not be reporting requirements.
That being said, I want to make a couple of observations:
You and your other non-POA sisters are not "paying her a salary." Your mother is paying the salary. You can't stop your sister's salary just because she doesn't share financials with you, which is her right as POA, or because she uses your mother's car.
The amount of her agreed-upon salary is totally relevant. Forget about whether papers were signed, etc. The amount IS the issue. If you all agreed on, say, $2,000 or $3,000 a month, I'd say your objection to her use of the car, and your desire to see financials, are understandable. After all, all of you want to make sure your mother's assets provide for her care for her lifetime.
But if you agreed on, say, $300 or $500 or even more a month five years ago, I would say that your mother is getting off very inexpensively, even if you think that the use of the car is worth a couple of hundred bucks a month. So the original amount is entirely relevant.
What ISN'T relevant is that three of you have car payments and the POA sister doesn't. It boggles my mind that you see that as her taking advantage of you. Maybe the use of the car is a fair way to pay part of her salary and maybe it isn't --- we can't know, without knowing what her salary is --- but it isn't taking anything away from the rest of you. If it had been sold, the money would have gone into your mother's bank account for her care; it would not have been divided among you sisters.
I said I shouldn't make assumptions, but now I'm doing it, I guess. I really haven't read anything in your posts that shows you're worried about your mother's financial position and her ability to afford long-term care. It's all about whether one of the four of you is getting something the others are not getting.
Sorry if I'm being unfair. I realize that we don't always express ourselves clearly when we're very unhappy. But ... darn it, when I read this thread it seems to me as if your mother is the forgotten woman in all this.