Please help. I didn't mean for this to be so long and bless your big heart for being kind enough to spare me the time to read this. I am torn up inside and could really use some assistance. Thanks:
I am a 45 year old woman with two young adult daughters. My mother is 77 years old. My wonderful father died in 2005.I am trying to start a home based business. There are only four of us in our family. There is NOBODY else, no one. Here's the issue. I love my mom, I really do, but she wants to see me every single day. She doesn't want to go anywhere without me, except to the hairdresser, grocery shopping and that's it.
She has only one friend who she sees about once a week. I have encouraged her to talk to her neighbors and invite them over. She won't. I even said I would make her food and drop it off at her house so she wouldn't have to cook. Nope, won't do it.
I would love to see my mother once or twice a week, but she wants to see me every day. I feel guilty as hell. I see her 4 to 5 times a week for about 4 to 8 hours a day and I am ready to burst with misery about her being here so much and guilt about my seflish attitude for not wanting her here as much as she is. And I hate it. I cannot stand seeing her so much. She doesn't talk, just sits on the sofa waiting for someone to talk to her. She is very very lonely. I get that, but she doesn't want to do anything without me.
I have encouraged her to: go to the senior centre, volunteer, join a book club, invite someone over from church. Her response? "No, because my hips hurt/back hurts etc" or my ultimate favorite of "Karen, these people have families. I am not going to ask them to do something with me when they have families of their own." I encourage my daughters to spend time with their grandmother but they really don't want to because she either a) complains, b) doesn't talk, or c) all of the above.
In the ideal situation, my mother would come over every single day and sit on my sofa until I come downstairs, oh so joyful to see her and then I would tell her all the wonderful things that have happened in my wonderful life since I last saw her (yesterday). But I don't have exciting stories to tell. I just don't. The conversations are always one sided. I have to think of something to say and she responds with yes or no, or talks very little and then stops until I have to think of something else to say. It's exhausting.
My mother attends church weekly and once in a while goes to a function there. I've encouraged her to do more as have people at church but she has only one pet project: spending time with me. That is her ultimate goal every single day of her life. And truthfully, it's draining.
There are many things she could do but doesn't want to. Everyone loves my mother. She truly is a good, kind, decent person. But I just can't stand seeing her day after day after day and racking my brains to come up with some conversation. She routinely says, "Karen, talk to me, just say anything" and do try. I swear I do.
The stress is killing me. I spoke to her doctor and she is on an antidepressant, but that does not cure her loneliness. It does not stop her from calling everyday to find out "when can I come over?" It does not stop me from cringing at the thought of spending so much time with her. If I say that I am busy, she whispers "Oh, okay" in a very soft unhappy voice, and sure that means I don't have to see her that day, but I do the next.
I never get to spend anytime alone with my own children. A few days ago I said, "Mom, I think that me and the kids will go to see a movie, just the three of us. I haven't spent any time alone with them for months and months now." Her wistful response, "Oh, I wish I could go." I felt like screaming, "God damn it mother. I spend more time with you than anyone. You are choking me and sucking all my happiness out of me. Go find someone to talk to. How selfish a person are you that you demand to spend so much time with me but you can't let me spend two hours with my children once, just once. I more or less told her this but she said, "I just wanted to tell you how I felt, that's all."
What do I do? I have tried reasoning with her many times. If I am gentle or if I am strong or if I am nice or if I am mean, it results in the same thing: her saying "Fine. I won't bother you anymore then. You live your life. Goodbye." And then her calling me the next day. So truthfully, what is the point having hurt feelings and anger if nothing every changes?
I am at the point right now where I truthfully feel I could hurt her or me because I cannnot take it anymore.
What do I do? She is sitting downstairs on my sofa now. It is about 5pm and she has been here since 1pm. On Wednesdays I need to take her to her doctor, which will of course mean that she will say after the appointment, "Is it okay if I just sit on your sofa? I'm not coming in your house to run all over it. I won't bother you?" On Friday she has a morning appt too which will result in the same thing.
Today I said to her, "Do you want to come out to lunch with me today (to a place she likes) or to dinner (a place she doesn't like)" She chose lunch, and idiot that I am, I figured when we got back 2 hours ago that she would leave. She didn't. Instead she said she will "find something to eat" at the place we are going to for dinner, so now that means she will be here until 8pm.
Am I a selfish horrible person? My mother is so wonderful and kind and gives me money all the time and will do anything for me. I feel like I should be doing all of this with a smile on my face instead of with anger and resentment in my heart. I am crying buckets right now and feel like a complete moron. Am I?
Be very careful about a decision to have your mother live with you. That can work beautifully for some. But if it doesn't, there is big trouble. This is a huge decision and it's good to start think about whether it would work, early. If not, then start figuring out what needs to be done when the time comes, and stick with it. Make sure she is cared for, that you are there for her, but don't give up you life for her. In the end, that's not what she would want.
Carol
And, hey, come to think of it, she has mentioned a few times about me having "time to myself" (something she always harps on about, acknowledging that I don't get "me" time at all, but not realizing that when she is with me I am not getting "me" time either!). And she does say things like, "When the kids move out you will have more time for yourself." Hey, I wonder if what she REALLYH means is, "When the kids move out we can live together." Oh boy, oh geez, oh no, oh god.
I hope you are prepared with your answer when she comes right out and says that she wants to live with you fulltime. She won't be happy until you say yes. And will she be happy even then? Is this what you want? Please give it some thought.
SecretSister I too am curious as to what Karen's mom is hinting at......
So, if you're mom says she's lonely living by herself, what do you think she's hinting at?
I wish I could do the senior day care thing, but like I explained in a past post, mom absolutely REFUSES to go anywhere without me, except to get her hair done, go to the library, yeah, that's probably about it.
I have begged, requested, bargained, pleaded, gently stated, firmly stated, inbetween stated, well, you get the point. There is nothing I haven't tried to do to encourage her to be with other people. But every time I mention the possiblity of her going somewhere other than to my house, she says, "Oh Karen, I wish you would stop pushing me away." And I say, "Mom, I am NOT pushing you away. I love you. I want you to be happy. I know it's not much fun sitting downstairs looking at the walls while I am upstairs working. I know that you are a lovely person. Everyone likes you. I know that you could do some fun things at the senior center." And she says, "Karen, I don't want to talk about this anymore. If you don't want me around just say so. I will not come around your house and you can be with your family."
THERE IS NO WINNING WITH MY MOTHER!
There is no bargaining. There is no reasoning. There is nothing I can say or do to make her change her mind about going anywhere or doing anything,
BUT...
Through the WONDERFUL people who have shared their advice with me, I am coming to the realization that ...
THERE IS NOTHING I CAN DO ABOUT IT
Yeah, I know. It sounds like I have thrown in the towel. But I haven't. Instead, what I have done is said to myself:
"Karen (okay, I don't really say my name to myself but still...read on!), you know that it would be wonderful for your mother to go out and get some friends and get a life. She would undoubtedly be happier with a social life. She would have something to talk about when we see each other. She would change so much. Instead of being miserable and having nothing to do, she would have something to do, and with other people. Wow. And I wouldn't feel guilty not being with her all the time because she would have have a life other than me. It would be fulfilling for her, and a little bit of 'pressure off' for me. Yippeee, oh that's right, I forgot. SHE DOESN'T WANT TO DO ANY OF THIS."
My bad, for thinking that thought.
So, yesterday she said, "Karen, it is so lonely living by myself." So I started off with, "I know mom. Hey, why don't you invite Faye (someone she knows at church) over to your house." As soon as I said this she said, "Karen, I ...fill in whatever negative reason it was that she didn't want to do this, I truly don't remember what it was...." So instead of saying, "Yeah mom, but you could do it because .... fill in whatever reason I would ordinarily give for why she could and should see Faye" Instead I said (and this is the NEW ME): "Okay mom, I won't bring it up again."
ps. Those are words I never said before. I figured instead of fighting her, I just give up.
Not sure whether that makes me enlightened - thought process: hey, I finally get it. Stop pushing her to do something she doesn't want to do.
Also, not sure whether it makes me a daughter who doesn't give a darn - thought process: hey, I finally get it. Stop pushing her because even though it's for her own good it doesn't work, so instead of trying to be the good daughter and "keep up the good fight" to get her to go places and do things, just give up, it's so much easier.
I feel so much better for not continously trying to offer my suggestions on how she can do things when she clearly HATES me talking about it (i.e. pushing her away, remember?), but I feel lousy for giving up.
So yes, I am changing. But is it for the better?
She gets activities, exercise, meals and socialization.
1) This is great for the cognitive stimulation.
2) She gets out of the house and made some new friends.
3) I get time to rest or regroup, time for my self.
4) It gives me four hours sessions to work on my business with uninterrupted time.
5) It gives me extra time to spend with my family as going out to eat, movies, run errands without worrying about my mom. She is well cared for and the senior day center.
When using senior day care call it "school", it sounds better the daycare. This helps them to have a social outlet and cognitive activities to improve their health. I highly recommend this for everyone. I just wish I knew about it years ago. It would have saved me from much needed stress. Put your parent in for the amount of hours you can afford. My mother's money helps pay for the senior care.
Everyone can speak for themselvs, no need for help.
Shook things up? I think not !
am conecrned that i havent see karenp on this lately , hope she is ok .
I'm still reading and learning from all of you and I appreciate one and all.
those that believe in God have their reasons. Those that don't have their reasons too. This is not a forum to argue religion.
Incidentally, the Holocaust claimed 12+ million people, 6+ million being Jews. Please don't forget the gypsies, homosexuals, political dissidents, mentally challenged and countless others that the Nazi's felt didn't fit their 'plan'. We don't hear about them nearly enough because they don't have the legacy that the Jewish people have. They died horribly and deserve to be remembered.
As far as God allowing it? Oh please. S*** happens. Moving on.
Bobbie
ihardbeck has faith and trust in God, she never said she was God.
evil is whats causing it all and i often wonder why god lets that happens if he s greater than evil . sorry i can not explain those .
i have had a bad times in my life and i rather not talk about those cuz it breaks my heart . its between me and the man upstairs ,
i lose faith and gain it back , i would get so mad and the man upstairs knows it too .
no i dont think any of us will ever understand why bad things do happens
I respectfully ask if you mean it when you say that God has a reason for everything. Could you seriously enlighten me about God's reason for the Holocaust and the alighter of six million people. The, the earthquake in Haiti doesn't seem to be anything God has a reason for. Does God have a reason??
You Rock!
lovbob
we do go out to eat and do whatever we wants , my daughter will sit with my dad so we could get a time away . in fact we were gone all weekend to celebrate 30 th annversary last sept , and in aug we went to fla so he could go gator hunting all weekend . my daughter watches over her gpa .
my husband is usualy a homebody , he works hard all day and comes home and is worn out , i take care of him also and he loves it .
before dad came here i used to work 3rd shift in factory and had no time for my husband cuz i was workin all the time and phyiscaly drained , my factory job tore my body up , i was all the time hurting and aching , and only saw my husband on the weekend . i would be tired and drained on the weekend and didnt wanna do anything but lay around and recoop .
now that i quit my job and am at home all the time my husband loves it , come homes i am at the door greeting him welcome home honey and he does get alot of attentions from me and he dont have to cook his own supper anymore .
having dad here with us is a life saver ! lord planned it for us for a reason . so i ll take that path the lord wanna me to take . THERES A REASON FOR EVERYTHING ...
I believe you are doing the best you can. I hope everyone who is reading this is realizing that lhardebeck is taking care of her dad and not her mother. I feel the emotions can differ greatly from mom to dad. Dad's may not be as demanding as a mother-as her story states he says please and thank you. This tells you he is appreciative of any attention at all. It may just be behavior of the individual but something tells me it is the mother guilt that is so tiring and stressful.
Karen, I hope for yourself you will take the time away from your mother. She has been blessed with you who will take her in-
she sounds like it takes alot to make her happy. You will never please. Who is going to make you happy?? It has to come from you--enjoy your family!! This is your time. You don't have to wait to enjoy yourself....who knows what the future holds for you!! You are obviously of good health, and should take time to enjoy your life, your mother did for herself. Set some non-guilt time for yourself. Start small doses and increase frequency. Parents don't ever seem happy no matter how much you give...So, make yourself happy--nobody else will!!!
I am so supportive of your efforts, I admire you!!
lcg
as the months went by it got easier . now i enjoy it . my dad is very old and tired and is very nice to me , says please , and says thank you .
i dont regret it at all .
you guys can cry and whine and get frustated like i did last year but it'll all pass , it takes time and alot of biting your own tongue and deal with it .
if you guys cant deal with it then you know there is other options so do it ...
karenp came on this askin for help and from hearing what she had to say , tells me she doesnt want to let go of her mom but wants a break without hurtin her feelings .
she can get abreak and she can do what she wants to do cuz her mother does not require 24-7 care .
yes nance i enjoy cleaning up after my father cuz he s my dad and needs help . he does need to be needed ,
on the other hand if my father was verbal abuse me , mean to me , hateful to me , i would not put up with it , he for sure be at some place eles .
if its hard to be moms mom then why is that ? there is other options ya know .
karenp s mother had a rough life and she just wants to sit in her ex livingroom and stare off at thewall . is that a crime ?? shes not hurting anything as far as i can see . just lonley old woman with a horrible abuse past she grew up in and married right into it and got away from it all .
YES I ENJOY CLEANING UP AFTER MY DAD . :-)
ihardebeck's claims she enjoys cleaning up after her dad, only a " need to be needed" person could say that.
It's very hard to be Mom's mom, I do know--bless you and Karen.
I am in a similar position as you, but it is more extreme. My Mom lives with me 24/7 and my Dad is in a nursing home with Alzheimer's. Mom has physical problems and takes many meds. She needs me as caregiver, but there are times when her behavior is nothing less than rude and demanding. Mom cannot drive and goes nowhere unless I take her. When I have the luxury of going to the grocery store alone, she worries about me-- and I frankly am not easy wondering if she has fallen or been confused, etc. Diagnosis: No Alzheimer's, no brain dysfunction, but major bipolar depressive episodes (most always in a down cycle).
I would call the pastor of your Mom's church and explain the problem. I am Catholic, and it seems that I have to be forceful in asking-- but there is always someone they can find who will come in as a companion and friend.
Your Mom did a great deal for you when you were growing up BUT remember that she never asked your permission to act in your best interest. Since you are the sole person being called upon, demand that she share her home with another woman. It can be good for both of them and for you.
The reason I find lhardebeck's advice so "out of this world" is she seems to have no sympathy for your situation and expects you to be the martyr she convinces herself she enjoys being. If that's her reality, God bless her! You are a different person, one much more the norm, I might add. If you compromise your health, and the stress will do it, where does your Mom wind up?
Even if you need to go to a therapist WITH her, get intervention. The tables are turned now, and you are expected to make the most reasonable and workable arrangements for her life and yours. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make her drink... but you have every right to make her thirsty!!!
You gave a great reminder for any child dealing with guilt and frustration caring for an elderly parent: "Her needs should be taken care of, but not all of her expectations can be met."
The fact that you say you feel that you could eventually hurt her or yourself shows how stressful the situation with your mom has become. You need to take a stand, even though it will be hard and it will be unpleasant initially. Get caller ID if you don't already have it. Don't answer her calls unless you want to talk to her. If you have things that need to be done...do them without feeling guilty. Set aside two or three days a week that are for her...Tuesday & Thursday for example. Let her know that these are the days that are hers and she can choose how to spend them. If she demands your attention on other days, gently remind her that 'I have other things I need to do today, but I'll see you on Thursday.' She will immediately go into her guilt producing mode, but you don't have to continue to let her victimize you. Know in your heart that you are doing what is best for you, your family, and ultimately for her. If she chooses to refuse to interact with anyone else, or shuns any effort at making friends, that is her choice to make and should have no reflection on the choices you make for yourself and your family. You should enjoy the time you spend with your mother, but that will not be possible as long as you are filled with resentment because she demands so much of your time. Make an assessment at a time when you are calm and decide how much time you can reasonably devote to your mother without sacrificing your sanity and your peace of mind. Make a plan and stick to it. She will be unhappy at first and will try to push your buttons as she has done so effectively for so long. Resolve not to cave in and let her win. If you are persistent and stick to your well thought out plans, she will probably come around in time. If she isn't getting the reaction she wants out of you there will be no point in her continuing to attempt to control you.
I would add one more thing. If she hasn't had a medical evaluation recently, you should consider taking her to her doctor. Go with her while she is being examined so you can hear first hand what the doctor's opinion is. If she is suffering from dementia or any thing else that might explain some of her behavior, this needs to be addressed. Her needs should be taken care of, but not all of her expectations can be met. She needs to understand this. And speaking of needs, make sure to take care of yours too. Both you and your mother will enjoy your time together more if you are relaxed and happy. Don't feel guilty about limiting the amount of time you can give to your mother. Planned visits that you can look forward to are far more rewarding for both of you than several long visits each week that you dread.
One could also say that perhaps people have become more callous, and with all our social welfare programs, feel more personal entitlement, and are therefore more selfish and self-seeking (which is not a new condition at all). Sometimes it seems we (as a generation and society) have less respect for our elders, and accept less responsibility for their welfare when they can longer care for themselves. It used to be considered natural to care for an elderly parent at home, (enter Waltons) and shameful to stick them away in an "institution" or facility, with the implication that they were somehow a nuisance, or "unfit."
What do we have to look forward to as we age? What will the attitude of our own offspring and society be? Will we be respected and reveared, or kicked to the curb like a dog? Will we experience rejection and disrespect, as some must say, "No man cared for my soul"? That would be an indictment on how far down we have gone, and how seared our consciouses may be. Are we, or are we not our brother/mother/father's keeper? Or is that the "government's" responsibility? (Thereby shifting burdens to society in general...) That is the question. Who's responsibility is it to care for those who cannot, or will not care for themselves?
I've heard some label others as lazy, and in certain cases, this could be true. But in some situations, depression and despondency may come into play. There is no one-size-fits-all answer or solution. What about the parent who was foolish, wasting all their assets and livelihood on wantonness? Who pays the price for their poor choices and the consequences that ensue? Again, entitlement comes into play. But are we to punish the offender?
Still, lcs made some good points regarding boundaries, and I agree that we struggle with the setting of them. It seems the lines are very blurred at times, with each side thinking they are right; the other wrong. Sometimes we are faced with a dilemma, and no clear path to follow. Who ultimately gets to answer this question?
But there are other distinctives worth considering, as well. Not every family operated with identical philosophies, nor did every parent follow scripted guidelines for rearing and raising their young. Some come from matriarchal, and some from patriarchal families. Not everyone came from the same mold, so to speak.
Here I argue that in my family, my parents did not treat their children to think for themselves, but rather with the admonition that, "children should be seen and not heard." While some children think that elders should not even be seen. So, it often depends on circumstance and perspective. And I also think the term "boundaries" can be used as a "buzz word," or for PC reasons, which don't always reflect proper application. But I'm not arguing against "boundaries," either. In fact, I think it is imperative we all have certain boundaries. (For instance, my stuff is my stuff and not your stuff, etc.) And that is where the debate begins, and from which arguments arise for all of us. Hence, laws and courts and juries, and societal protection and enforcement. When it comes to personal entitlement, obligation and responsibility, who has the right to impose their convictions upon another? If we say that each person gets to choose for themselves, what if your choice disagrees with mine?
Regarding how "our children were raised," I think there is something else to consider. At what age do we let a child "think for them self"? At two, where you have a toddler telling an adult they won't follow the rules? Is that a healthy boundary? Is is OK for them to shake their fist at us, saying, "Leave me alone, and let me think for myself...!" as they choose to eat Fruity Pebbles for breakfast, lunch and dinner? And when an elder (or Senior Citizen) becomes a certain age, do we impose a boundary on them, demanding they must accept whatever fate has befallen them? Just some points to ponder...