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I haven't read through all the responses here but I worked in and with car dealerships, granted many years ago and there are definitively those who push the ethical boundaries as well as graying the legal lines as well as those who would never have done this. I don't know if they worked within the law or not, some of that may depend on the laws in your state both governing sales and those protecting the elderly but if I were you I would consult a good attorney, preferably one versed in elder law/abuse as well as retail malpractice which may mean a firm that has both or an elder law practice happy to consult with other experts he or she knows. Do this BEFORE signing anything, making any deals with the dealership or accepting any money unless of course you are fine with what they are offering but that should include a full severing of ties. So for instance if they were offering to take back the deal if you pay the $4000 damages and you are ok with doing this, only do it if they sign off holding you and Dad harmless for any further claims (so no depreciation), now I'm not saying this is a deal you should take either, for 1 they insured him so insurance should be picking up damages and Dad is just responsible for the deductible right?

Knowing your legal rights will be key in how you push back on the ethics as well and the way you decide to go in your approach to the dealership. Take the higher ground rather than letting them bully you because they will certainly try to do that (already have) and they are skilled at it, right or wrong. It probably wasn't even malicious to begin with when they sold the truck to your dad. Likely it was a salesperson who was under pressure to make sales (end of month and year and holiday time), works on commission and trained not to look a gift horse in the mouth, your dad was an easy sale why question it. Many big mass sale dealerships work this way (or at least used to), staffed by young less experienced sales people who just don't have the life experience to know better and then management does the clean up on those deals that go a bit sideways, like your dad's. Stonewalling, pressure, intimidation is their upper hand so don't let them take it. Maybe there wont be any legal recourse but negative publicity well that's another story given the ethical behavior here so you have options just take the time to figure out which ones to use.

You obviously need to address how to prevent this kind of thing with your dad in the future too. Trying to admonish and train him is not likely the answer given his dementia so it might be time to figure out other ways to curtail his urges. Maybe the AL facility should be on notice about letting him take public transportation if that's how he got to the dealer? The simple fact he couldn't find his way home indicates a danger to address and they should be well versed in the options for keeping him safe.
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If I were you I would out them on social media or even contact the news media. If they are not covering all the costs, it should cost their business in lost sales and bad reputation. That’s horrible.
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Ask an attorney. If your dad showed up to a dealer, on foot and on a walker, the whole sale was sketchy. You might also contact an investigative news reporter on one of your local TV stations.
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elaineSC Dec 2019
Good suggestion, my2cents.
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something similar has come up before on this site, and seeing as how there are 33 answers I have yet to read, I will be brief. I'm not sure what state you're in (beyond a state of agitation as well you should be!) and laws may vary, but rather than wear yourself out, I'd be connecting with a certified elder law attorney, and if you are so inclined check out your state consumer laws (maybe Better Bsns Bureau). While it's true a dealership can't turn someone down away with the relevant credentials, it's clear you got one of the scum places with scum people who crawled out from under a rock to take advantage of the situation. Some consumer laws will elaborate on that part, i.e. a buyer must have the mental capacity to understand the implications of what they are doing--which is why it is called consumer protection. No doubt the dealership is banking on you not taking things further (along with the $20K). So don't succumb...in fact, I would think they just might additionally hold some liability for the accident and you should get the $4K back for the damages they charged you for. Lastly, it will not look very good when you call your local TV station to share the story of what slime they are:-) Tell them to wear their good ties the day the station shows up to interview them..maybe on a busy Saturday before Christmas:-) The slimy ones take advantage of ALL of us regardless of age. I learned all the lessons the hard way. And BTW, it's also unfortunate none of the efforts were done on a credit card...My dad (age 101 at the time) bought a new car a year ago, with my presence. He wanted a particular make/model/trim (so that the passenger seat was fully adjustable for mom) and I found a good deal in the color he was okay with at a distance. Because in that moment it was exactly what he wanted, I was fool enough to agree to putting down the requested $1K and didn't balk. We had not signed ANYthing. It was a weekend; we'd go down in the next few days. Well, a day later another dealership we'd visited calls and offers us the brand new model (i.e. a year younger) for the same price or less...and was far easier to trek to. So dad wants that one. Other dealer was VERY unhappy and sends an email claiming we had a deal and he "bets the other dealer won't give us back the $1K we put down." Stomach churns. Call dealer we're working with and he assures me, correctly, that it's a game and we signed nothing, so not to worry...but to play it safe, call credit card company and stop payment. They had already processed it, but we received a full credit. It's a nasty business. Much of it should be illegal...print in light gray in size 2 font with no space between lines...not letting you take paperwork home to review before signing...I hope you'll let us know how it all works out!
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worriedinCali Dec 2019
The BBB better business bureau is not an official entity. It is a private business. They don’t enforce laws, they can’t take any action. And the delaership has done nothing wrong. The OP needs to go after the facility that let her father wander off.
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Similar situation for my brother. After he wrecked his older Civic he called a Honda dealership. The dealership came to his house and gave ride back to place of business. There they sold him a basic Civic sedan and charged him the MSRP; no discounts. My brother was 78 at the time and did not wait for me (in another state) to go with him. At time of purchase my brother was using a walker to get around but nonetheless the dealer sold him a car care kit for $699; the car care kit included wax and other cleaning materials which my brother would never be able to use while holding onto a walker. In addition, dealer sold him future oil changes and tire rotations for approximately $1450 plus an extended vehicle warranty for another $1450. The MSRP on the window sticker was over $20,000 but final sales price, for which my brother wrote a check, was over $27,300. For a base model Civic with absolutely NO extra options. Less than two months later he was diagnosed with mild, or early signs of dementia. I have since moved him (after his diagnosis) to my state where I have taken over his affairs. The dealership did nothing illegal but they are seriously greedy and immoral.
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shad250 Dec 2019
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Talk to an attorney who will work on a contingency except for the initial consultation and if he can't do anything with it, tell him to say so asap. Then, your father will need to go on Medicaid at the nursing facility after his self-pay status has been reached. In other words, when he runs out of money, he goes to the nursing home on Medicaid. Sounds like he only has a few months of money left anyway if he only had the $20,000 plus a few thousand left. Nursing facilities are expensive and some do not take Medicaid either. If he is your responsibility, start checking these things out. Obviously, he should not be driving and I don't know how he passed the eye test at the DMV either unless it wasn't as bad when he renewed his license last. Good luck to you. He sounds like a piece of work. I would like to add something about the dealerships on here. How do you ask a person if they are lucid enough to buy a vehicle? How do you tell a 79 year old man that you think he has dementia or not able to buy a vehicle without risking another nasty situation. It seems to me that everybody, including the dealership should be partly to blame. Did the dealership know that he lives in a nursing home? Did he seem lucid enough? Those dealerships see everything from crazy to mean coming in to check out cars. My son is a sales manager at a dealership but I can tell you he has a huge heart for the elderly and would not allow one of his salesmen to sell to a person with dementia who lived in a nursing facility. Are there some that would? Certainly, just like salespeople in any other business. But don't label them all as crooks because they may not have realized how bad off your Dad is. He had to have been able to give them the info they needed for the paperwork.
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All the answers have merit and excellent advice.
That said, many years ago a dealership refused to fix a poor quality issue on a new car I bought. I contacted the
the main car company. In your case it would be Ford. Explain the situation, every detail. They do not want bad PR. They might possibly pressure the dealership to do the right thing. In my case, I got a personal call and apology, along with a quick fix.
I wish you the best and hope all turns out in your favor.
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NeedHelpWithMom Dec 2019
You’re so smart! Reminds me of when I was a kid and I wanted a certain bike from a very old reputable bicycle store.

Their slogan was, “Your great grandfather bought his bicycle here.” It was a very expensive, brand name bike for my birthday. I was a very active teenager.

The gears were broken from day one! I wasn’t a casual cyclist. I rode miles and miles and miles on a daily basis. So I was very frustrated!

My mom politely asked that they either repair my bike or replace it. They said, “No problem. We will have our mechanic repair it.”

My mom wasn’t stupid. She asked me to go for a ride on my bike before we left the store. I didn’t even get a block from the store when the gears went wacky again. The bike was a lemon or they had a poor mechanic.

I went back in the store and my mom asked me if my bike was fixed. I said, “”No, I can’t ride this bike. It’s broken.” They told mom that they were sorry and would be sure to fix it. My mom gave them a second chance.

We went back to pick up my bicycle. She told me to go take it for a spin. I did. It was still broken! I got back and mom said, “Well, is it fixed?”

When I told her no, you should have seen mom go into action! She politely asked for a refund. They said they would not refund her money.

Mom said, “I gave you two chances. You don’t get a third! I want my money now! If I don’t get it I will use your phone to call the Better Business Bureau and make a complaint on your business.

Oh boy, did that get his attention. He tells my mother, “Lady, please keep your voice down. I have customers in the store and you will chase them off.”

Wrong thing to say to my mom! She said, if I don’t get my money back I will tell everyone about your bad customer service! She got her money back.

Then mom said to me. “Come on honey, let’s go buy you a bicycle that works!” We went to a lesser known store with the same brand bicycle and my bike was a dream! It worked perfectly.

I was so proud of my mom that day. She didn’t let them push her around. So yeah, sometimes in certain situations we have to speak up.

Sometimes they are nice about it. Sometimes they aren’t. Sometimes the customer is right. Sometimes the business is right.

It doesn’t hurt to ask for a refund. The OP can try. People in sales are going to sell. That is their bread and butter.

Legally they were entitled to sell him a car. Is it a shame what happened? Sure it is. Not sure if there will be a positive outcome for the OP or not. It all depends.
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speak to the headquarters of the auto dealership, and try to work it out with them. if the sale is within 30 days chances are you can get a full refund. Still I would get his valid driver's license revoked and replaced with ID card instead since his mental abilities are impaired before he gets himself hurt or killed, or someone else.
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worriedinCali Dec 2019
Did you even read the post? She can’t get a full refund. Her dad crashed the truck!!!
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You need to speak to an elder law attorney right away.
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So they offered you $16K less depreciation - and what figure were they putting on the depreciation?

If your father was manifestly not in his right mind and obviously not fit to drive, how did it come about that he was left unsupervised and able to conduct this negotiation over two days with the dealership?

And if he was apparently in control of his own affairs, on what grounds should the dealership have refused to serve him?

I have a feeling you were unwise to turn down their offer to buy back the truck, because I think you may find that they were under no obligation to do so. Is it too late to go back to them? Taking the smaller loss and being grateful it was no worse, and especially that nobody got hurt, might be the least painful option in the end.

I think I'd have more questions about what was going on at the ALF. Your father is of course not a prisoner, he is free to come and go and to please himself, but at the same time it is an Assisted Living facility, and the assistance should include monitoring his welfare to some extent. It seems unlikely that he would have kept this planned purchase entirely to himself - didn't any alarm bells go off?
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lkdrymom Dec 2019
I have to agree. We all hear stories about how an elder puts on a good show for the public. If the dealership refused him we'd all be crying elder discrimination. If your father had been in his right mind and was questioned or even refused the purchase everyone would be up in arms that they refused to sell to him.

No one has said explained how this person who is so bad off physically and mentally managed to go to the dealership and negotiate a sale over two days and manage to write a check to complete the transaction. Why would it be the responsibility of the dealership to assess his mental state?

Sadly no one is to blame except the elder in this situation. If he was so bad off he should not have had access to his checking account. He should not have been allowed to go out alone. You can't blame the dealership for that. Someone dropped the ball but it wasn't the people he bought a car from.
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Get a Lawyer, Best from any Rest thing to Do. More than a Lemon Here, Dear, I Fear.
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Where does the insurance company stand in all this? Allowing him to leave before coverage was bound may be your ace in the hole.

They had the responsibility to ensure that the insurance was active if they set it up, it sounds like that is not the case.
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NeedHelpWithMom Dec 2019
Interesting question. I wonder too. If she has an ace in the hole though, it’s certainly an expensive lesson to learn.

My dad couldn’t drive. He didn’t have dementia but after his heart surgery he had a stroke. Mom knew to remove the keys and tell him that his driving days were over.

One day, my dad was a bit down. He was depressed about no longer feeling like a man as he put it.

He only wanted to just sit behind the wheel again and turn the ignition on to hear the engine running for just a second. My mom’s first instinct was no. She told him that the doctor would not allow him to drive.

She looked at his sad face and felt sorry for him. She asked him to promise to do just as he said, only sit behind the wheel and hear the engine, he was not to put the car in reverse and back up even in the driveway.

She asked him to promise knowing that he was a man of his word. He promised. He did exactly as he said and never asked for the keys ever again. I suppose it was his last hurrah in the car.

Afterwards, mom told me that she was so foolish to take that chance because he could have backed up into the street. She said she was thankful to God that he hadn’t been tempted to drive. She said she wouldn’t do it again and let him have the keys. I had enormous compassion for because I knew how much she loved my father.

I had torn feelings. I adored her for allowing my father to feel like a man, completely trust him, unconditionally love him and understand his need to be behind the wheel himself just to reminisce about his driving days. I found it terribly sweet and respectful to him.

The other side felt exactly as she did, “What if he had backed up and entered the street?” I told her that I saw both sides, just as she did.

OP’s daughter knew nothing about her dad even wanting to drive. The utter shock of police at the door about her dad must have been confusing and terrifying. Sad situation.

I suppose my dad could have been driving too after he no longer drove but I feel the responsibility of an accident in his case would have fallen in my mom’s lap for handing over the keys even though she only wanted to show him love. She ended up giving the car to my younger brother.

I bet the OP feels guilty that she allowed him to have access to money now but how could she have ever known her dad would go buy a car! These things come out of the blue and I guess it’s a lesson for all of us that anything is possible.
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Why does someone with dementia have access to $20,000?  It doesn't look like he has the right level of care.  If he is going to "wander" and attempt to drive where he could have killed himself or worse innocent people, if he is going to spend money he needs for his dialysis/care, he needs to be in a memory care unit.

To deal with the immediate problem, contact a lawyer.  I know you think the dealership is supposed to do the "right thing" where your FIL is concerned and investigate whether he should really be buying this truck, but you all know he has dementia and physically disabled and are still allowing him to manage things he shouldn't be. 

Time for tough love.  I wish you well.
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First. Your Father shouldnt have access to $20k if he has dementia. A POA needs to be drawn up that limits his spending. That being said, call Ford Corp HQ and lodge a complaint. Then call the local TV station and tell them they need to do a story on the dealerships unwillingness to rectify the sale and let the dealership know that you have contacted the TV station. Then, call an elder law attorney.
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worriedinCali Dec 2019
if the OPs father is too far gone to be held responsible for buying a car and then wrecked it then he’s too far gone to assign a POA. Just saying.....if he’s competent enough to assign a POA then he’s competent enough to buy a car.
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Do any of your local news channels have a consumer help line? This is the kind of story they love and shady business dealer's hate! Often times, just the threat of calling them will make a business re-think their stance. They do NOT want bad PR!!
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A brand new Ford F150 costs considerably more than $20k. He must have also gotten financing. Better make sure payments are coming out of his bank account.
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worriedinCali said:

"Her dad is in AL with dementia so she needs to go after the facility (especially if he is in memory care)"
and
"The OP needs to go after the facility that let her father wander off."

OP's original post said:

"He lives in a retirement/assisted living facility." (Note also the profile says independent living.)

AL does NOT monitor the comings/goings of residents. This is one argument I had with my YB - he insisted mom would prefer AL. I said mom needed MC and there would be no one to stop her from walking out the door.

Either OP's profile is older when it refers to independent living, OR OP meant semi-independent. AL ASSISTS people with some of their needs, but it is NOT locked down and you can come/go when you please. If this was a MC unit, which is usually locked down, he wouldn't have been able to do this.

Clearly this is a case of the father's dementia/capabilities now beyond being "independent." OP needs to take control of finances and perhaps consider moving father to MC. The facility, assuming it is just AL, has NO responsibility in this matter. As for needing the money for his "rent", have a chat with the admin and see if arrangements can be worked out until you can sell the damn truck.

I also don't see holding the dealership responsible as being the best way to handle this. I am NOT a fan of ANY car dealerships - I DETEST buying a car because of them. However, bringing this issue to social media or the local news might likely backfire as well, because the tables could be turned to blame OP for not managing his affairs. If this is the route taken, be prepared for the backlash.

If the insurance they "procured" for him didn't include collision or the deductible is really that high, it might be best to suck it up and get it fixed elsewhere (most likely will be less expensive than having the dealer fix it) AND then sell it privately. The dealership will overcharge for everything and undercut the price offered.

Anyone else dealing with early dementia beware - this is just like raising kids, you never know when babies will roll over (potential falls), start walking, climbing, etc. There is no timeline for babies/toddlers and there are none for dementia. You *must* try to be one step ahead at all times to avert disasters! With dementia, one day that person with some short term memory issues, but seemingly still "with it" suddenly reverts back to their former self of years ago and does something like this man did! Thankfully no one was hurt, so this is a nasty expensive learning experience.

(example: Mom begged YB for 9 months to take her back to her condo after we moved her to MC. NINE months. Suddenly and magically at that point, she asked me to drop her off at her mother's on my way home. ???? Her mother passed away 40+ years ago! She also asked if I had a key to their former address, sold over 25 years before! So, the condo was forgotten and hasn't been mentioned since. Most recently she asked about her younger sister, who is also gone, for many years. Then she stated that her sister must be tied up with "that baby." She has to be referring to my cousin's youngest, her sister's granddaughter, totally disabled from day 1, but she, aka the "baby", must be close to 40 yo now!!! Some baby!)
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worriedinCali Dec 2019
um...you do realize that people can and DO escape from memory care units? It shouldn’t happen but it does. So yes he would have been able to do this if he is in memory care.
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Quick lookup on this "Oh and they had him sign a letter of Arbitration which I have never seen before when purchasing a vehicle." indicates that this is becoming de rigueur (commonplace) when buying a car. Never heard of it myself, and no clue if I signed one during recent purchase (my cars are 13+ and 17+ yo, so not likely to have seen them before!) Apparently this is to prevent the buyer from taking them to court - it forces you to submit to 3rd party arbitration instead. Sounds like CYA to me...
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Shane1124 Dec 2019
It is, disgustedtoo. With my recent episode dealing with my brothers death and him buying a vehicle two months prior to his death. I found this out when I read every single word in the contract. That stinks.
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Many great answers/advice here already. 

No test drive, the dealership got him to sign paperwork, insure him and get him insured before leaving the lot.  Sounds like they knew he was incapacitated whether they admit it or not. 

You're lucky your father wasn't killed or killed anyone else (and that dealership will count themselves lucky, too!)

Call an attorney!  ASAP  You can also search online 'elder legal assistance program,' to see any in your area who may be able to help or refer you.  It doesn't cost to get an initial consult and/or referral.  Don't tell the dealership or your elderly father, who may repeat that to the wrong person/s.  If no attorney will help, call your local TV Consumer Help lines.

*Take your father's driver's license!  If he says anything about it missing, just say you don't know, but will help look for it later.  Call the DMV to ask how to get an ID for him.  If you have to take father there, tell him his license expired (or was lost) and you're taking him to get it renewed, but you just get him the ID Only.
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Shane1124 Dec 2019
No it doesn’t sound like he was incapacitated. Dealerships are not physicians and don’t have that power. The person went into a dealer looking to buy a car.
As someone said, what if the situation was reversed & the dealership refused to sell him a car because of his age? Then the dealer would be sued for age discrimination.
You can’t assume just because someone is almost 80 y/o that they are “incapacitated “.
It’s not the dealer’s fault, jmho.
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I really don't like the "go to the media/social media and shame them" route until you know they actually did something wrong. (Forging documents would be a biggie.)

Contact an attorney to find out if there's anything that can be done, but first and foremost, move your dad to a memory care facility TODAY. He's not being served well in assisted living if he's free to come and go as he pleases with his mental state.
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Talk to a lawyer. This is too complicated and is going to depend on state laws.

Also, and I know this is much easier to write than do, but tighten everything up, way up. You have a problem, which you know, that you have to deal with.

Also, I feel for you. Managing parents is crazy hard. My father did something a little bit dumb, which was fine, but how he handled the fix, and that he got into the problem scares me. And I have no idea how to get him to change, and listen to me, he, simply, won't, do, it.

Good luck with everything. There is a silver lining here, he only damaged the truck, and his finances, he could have done this during the day with far more serious consequences.
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Needhelpwithmom, yup, she took it for a test drive around the parking lot of the car dealer ship only. I rode in the car with her. She couldn’t even turn her head to look in the backseat!!!
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NeedHelpWithMom Dec 2019
Geeeeez,

Years ago I was dropping my daughter off at preschool. I had an old lady back into me in a parking lot without ever looking in the rearview mirror, then try to run. I called the police and wrote down her license number.

When the police came she lied to the police. She was driving her daughter’s car and the insurance did pay for the damages to my car. I never saw her at the school again. Her daughter did not allow her to drive after that to bring her grandchild to school.

I understand that people have accidents but she made me angry when she lied to the police saying the accident was my fault. Then she said that she tried to run because she had something baking in the oven.
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