Is worsening narcissism really worsening dementia?

Here is my experience: Each time I get in verbal argument (and sometimes fights), afterwards I realize it was such a waste of time, my time and my emotions. Does not seem that I am learning how to ignore her. She somehow manages to get to me. My advice: let's you and me learn how to ignore. I know it is hard because I am human and and I know I will take it hard if someone I love will ignore me. But here is what I learned - she does not love me or anyone else. So if I ignore her it will not hurt her. On the contrary that makes her busy, she starts plotting new tricks to attract my attention. In fact by ignoring her, I am providing her with the entertainment she loves so much - manipulating me into her sick world.
I am really writing this convince myself to ignore and forget all the hurt she caused me throughout years

I've been in similar situations all my life. Right now my 86 year old husband is probably within months of dying, - hospice says greater than 6 and won't take him, so we're on our own. For some unknown reason he is ANGRY, (He has lots he could be making amends for but doesn't see it that way) wants me at his bedside and then says mean things that are tiny bits of truth padded with lots of lies, Finally realized I have a choice - I can feel guilty or I can feel resentful - if anyone has figured out how to be neutral in such a sad situation please share the secret.

My mom says one day I will understand....I so pray I am not like her and will never get to that point...my biggest downer is her and the guilt she puts on me. I wish I could tell you how not to feel guilty but I can't help myself. Just know you are not alone, there are many in the same situation who wish you well and want to "hold your hand" to help you through.. I am sure there are many others on here who will give you better advice than I can. It is so difficult when it is someone that you love and care about and wish there was a magic pill you could give them.

I am an only daughter of a 86 year old father, dependent on me. He is an immigrant of poverty, who has been living in the past for years. He does not read papers, hates TV, has no relatives or friends (they are all dead) . He is a complete recluse, who says, "everything is better in my imagination" . He has been out of step with life since I was born. I have had to disassociate myself from him so as not to become like him. I have terrible guilt over this. Any advice?
Redhead

I think we all understand....and its better to let it off here....I let my mom get to me this weekend and I finally blew up and started yelling...she then calmly looked at me and said "and who needs to see a shrink". I had spent Sat with her and took her to a flea market festival out of town...When we got back we went to the camper. Sunday morning I walked my dog with my friends and her dog after checking in on her ...when we got back around 10 I went and told her we were going over to Liz's deck later to set outside. I said I was going to grab a bowl of cereal and do some other things first and I would be back after her later. I started preparing stuff for vegetable soup and Liz came back by. Said she didn't want me and mom to come by and her not be there....her dog was still wound up so she was going to take a ride down to the Iron bridge did I want to come along. Mistakenly I said yes and went. Our husbands had went into town for a "man" breakfast and were arriving when we got back. I asked my husband to go over and tell mom I would be ready in a few minutes. He came back saying she was screaming about me and how my dog was more important than her and she was way down the list. I walked over and she started in on me too, how she had set there 6 am this morning watching me out the window and I had come and gone several times and everyone, especially the dog, was more important than her. That I had told her I was coming back and instead went off with Liz and the dogs and was gone for hours. I lost my self control and started yelling telling her I had had enough. I was at the campground to rest, not be on a schedule. I have enough of that having to get up at 5:30 for work. That I not only walked for the dog but because it was healthy for me too. That I had not told her a particular time frame, and the short trip to the bridge was only 20 minutes (she kept saying it was hours). This time instead of crying or getting hysterical she was very calm which almost made it worse when she said I was the one that need a shrink...she was making me feel like I was the bad person because I was the one upset. You try so hard to be same and hold it together but we are human too.

(((momsie))). You are right. My best friend read it too and said the same thing. I didn't send it because I had second thoughts. It did feel good to write it though, but I will just put it to rest now. I've got to remember to be the bigger person here and keep remembering that I am communicating with a brick wall. It hurts right now because I am the target of her anger right now. It is always at least one of us, but I'm the one who does the most and is hated the most. I know that's life. Thank goodness for all of you here and this website. I am actually pretty embarrassed that I posted that whole thing. I feel like my sanity is slipping and she is a nest of bees in my head all the time. Once I go back to work on Monday, it will get much better because I won't be sitting here dwelling on it all day.

Bless you and everyone here.

My immediate thought is "too many words." It sounds like there is a lot of anger and hurt; perhaps you need a little more time before you can approach your difficult MIL dispassionately. What are you trying to accomplish? Keep it simple and concrete when you interact with her. Don't get off subject, and tell her ahead of time that you'll leave if she is rude---and then do so. Don't argue, walk out if she isn't interested in addressing the problem and just wants to gripe.. Try something like:"Let's work together to get your needs taken care of. We can help you with some things, and help you find community resources for what we can't do." (make a list as you talk)
Good luck to you. Do something nice for yourself today.

(((((emjo)))) - thanks emjo. Hubby went over there and she was nice to him because she wanted something printed on her computer she could not figure out. You just never know who you are going to get. I feel for you too. Nothing like spending hours in the ER for nothing. I can't wait to go back to work next week! Oh, and I forgot to send the tomatoes and she did make note of that to hubby. Another thing I will burn in hell for, lol.

(((((((ohjeezie))))) I doubt that you can get through to her and that she will take responsibility, but you can always hope. I hope I am wrong, My mother has just ripped up one side of me and down the other for not giving her a lot of attention for yet one more visit to the ER where they found nothing wrong with her. She has no interest in how I am, just that I will do her bidding - what's new. It is the narcissism and it is how she is wired. Just do what you have to do to protect yourself, and your family.

Sorry about the long last post. It felt good to get that out. I haven't sent that to her yet. Hubby does trash at her house tonight and I don't want him to have to deal with her right after she reads this. I have second thoughts already. Everything with her always blows up in my face and then circles around and bites me in the butt.

UPDATE: My MIL finally sent me an email. She had refused to speak to me for a little over 2-1/2 weeks. When I read her emails, I can hear her condescending tone. This is her email. Most of this is concerning one of my daughters, who left out the window on the night of my surgery (aren't teenagers great?). I understand my MIL was upset, but good grief. Those nosebleeds she is having are an ongoing problem, but not as bad as she makes them out to be. I can't tell you how many times EMS has been called in the past only for them to tell her she was fine. Below is her email to me. I replaced names in the parentheses. She always writes in upper case.

DEAR (ohjeezleweez)

LIKE YOU, I'VE BEEN SAVORING THE GREAT WEATHER WE'VE HAD ALL SUMMER! SURE HOPE THE ARRIVAL OF THE CHANGE TO WINTER WEATHER WON'T BRING UNBEARABLY LONG, GLOOMY DAYS!

GLAD TO HEAR YOU ARE FEELING ALMOST NORMAL AGAIN. BELIEVE ME, I KNOW WHAT IT'S LIKE WHEN YOU'RE FEELING "UNDER THE WEATHER" ! I HAD HEARD FROM (twin B) AND (hubby) THAT YOU WERE DOING O.K., SO I DIDN'T CALL AS I DIDN'T WANT TO DISTURB YOU. IT MUST HAVE BEEN NICE TO HAVE YOUR MOM SPEND TIME WITH YOU.

THE PAST COUPLE OF WEEKS HAVE BEEN THE USUAL NIGHTMARE FOR ME. MORE NOSEBLEEDS THAT I HAD TROUBLE CONTROLLING --- LOTS OF BLOODY LAUNDRY, ETC. I SPENT TWO DAYS FLAT ON MY BACK IN BED TRYING TO CONTROL THAT. FINALLY WHEN I NOTICED THAT THE ANEURYSM ON MY CAROTID ARTERY WAS SWELLING, I BROKE DOWN AND CONTACTED DR. (blank). EVEN THOUGH HIS LOOMING RETIREMENT HAS PRECLUDED THE SCHEDULING OF MORE PATIENTS, HE WORKED ME IN ONE LAST TIME. I RETURNED HOME AND WENT BACK TO BED AS HE INSTRUCTED. BECAUSE I WAS SO UNSTEADY ON MY FEET AT HIS OFFICE, HE ALSO SCHEDULED ME TO START MORE THERAPY SESSIONS BEGINNING AGAIN NEXT WEEK.

ON TOP OF MY SITUATION, (cat) NEEDED ATTENTION AGAIN. I FINALLY STRUGGLED UNTIL I GOT HER IN THE CARRIER BY MYSELF, AND WE WENT OFF TO THE VET. THAT CONSUMED ANOTHER WHOLE DAY.

YOU MENTIONED THAT YOU HADN'T HEARD FROM ME AT ALL --- AND THAT YOU THOUGHT MAYBE I'D CALL YOU. WELL, (ohjeezleweez), TO BE PERFECTLY UPFRONT, I WAS REALLY PISSED WITH BOTH YOU AND (hubby). WHEN WE LAST TALKED, (twin A) WAS GONE AND WORRY WAS RAMPANT.

I HAVE ALWAYS TRIED TO ACCOMMODATE THE GIRLS WHEN ASKED TO DO SO. I'VE ALSO MADE IT CLEAR THAT I HAD NO INTENTION OF BEING A PARTY TO ANYTHING THAT YOU --- AS THEIR PARENTS --- WOULD NOT CONDONE. I WAS EVERY BIT AS WORRIED AS YOU WERE ABOUT WHERE SHE WAS AND WHETHER OR NOT SHE WAS SAFE. HAVING DROPPED HER OFF AT WHAT I WAS TOLD WAS (the boyfriend's) HOUSE, I WAS REALLY CONCERNED, AND I FELT PULLED INTO THE SITUATION.

BEFORE ENDING OUR CONVERSATION, YOU SAID THAT YOU WOULD LET ME KNOW WHEN YOU LOCATED HER.. NEITHER YOU NOR (hubby) CALLED ME BACK. FURTHERMORE, YOUR PHONE HAD BEEN ADJUSTED SO THAT I COULDN'T REACH YOU WHEN I TRIED SOME HOURS LATER TO CALL YOU. I REALIZE YOU DO THAT BECAUSE YOU DO NOT WANT TO BE DISTURBED. THAT SITUATION LEAVES ME WITH NO CONTACT IN CASE OF EMERGENCY. WITHOUT MY GOOD FRIENDS, I'D FEEL REALLY UP A CREEK IF I NEEDED HELP IN A HURRY.

I COULDN'T SLEEP WITH SO MANY THOUGHTS AND THE WORRY ABOUT (twin A's) SAFETY FLOATING AROUND IN MY MIND. IT WAS A LONG, SLEEPLESS NIGHT FOR ME BECAUSE OF THAT LACK OF CONSIDERATION FOR MY FEELINGS. I DETEST THESE MOMENTS OF DISSENSION SO VERY MUCH. AND, I DEEPLY FEEL THAT CONSIDERATION NEEDS TO BECOME A PART OF EVERYBODY'S ACTIONS. WHEN PROMISES ARE NOT KEPT, I BECOME RESENTFUL --- JUST LIKE EVERYONE ELSE. BOTH OF THE GIRLS HAVE BEEN GUILTY OF FAILING TO KEEP PROMISES LATELY, TOO. AND, THAT IS SOMETHING THAT I BELIEVE NEEDS TO BE ADDRESSED.

I'M HOPING YOU WILL FEEL STRONG, RESTED, AND READY WHEN YOU RETURN TO WORK. IT'S HARD TO BELIEVE THAT IS COMING UP SO SOON.

OF COURSE, I'D LOVE TO HAVE SOME HOME GROWN TOMATOES --- CAN'T IMAGINE THEY WILL LAST MUCH LONGER WITH THE WARM WEATHER ALMOST OVER.

MY LOVE TO ALL

****I am answering back:

Hi (MIL),

Thank you for finally answering my email. I’d like to address some of the points in your email:

“I HAVE ALWAYS TRIED TO ACCOMMODATE THE GIRLS WHEN ASKED TO DO SO. I'VE ALSO MADE IT CLEAR THAT I HAD NO INTENTION OF BEING A PARTY TO ANYTHING THAT YOU --- AS THEIR PARENTS --- WOULD NOT CONDONE. I WAS EVERY BIT AS WORRIED AS YOU WERE ABOUT WHERE SHE WAS AND WHETHER OR NOT SHE WAS SAFE. HAVING DROPPED HER OFF AT WHAT I WAS TOLD WAS DANNY'S HOUSE, I WAS REALLY CONCERNED, AND I FELT PULLED INTO THE SITUATION.”

In no way did we blame you or find you at fault for driving (twin A) to (the boyfriend's) house. We believe you were completely innocent in this regard. (Twin A) was not being truthful to us or you and unfortunately it all had to come down on the day of my surgery. The situation changed and developed multiple times and needed our undivided attention to handle. Involving you with every turning event would have caused more anxiety for you and needed to be handled privately. Had she not left her phone in your car, we would have not involved you at all.

“BEFORE ENDING OUR CONVERSATION, YOU SAID THAT YOU WOULD LET ME KNOW WHEN YOU LOCATED HER.. NEITHER YOU NOR (hubby) CALLED ME BACK. FURTHERMORE, YOUR PHONE HAD BEEN ADJUSTED SO THAT I COULDN'T REACH YOU WHEN I TRIED SOME HOURS LATER TO CALL YOU. I REALIZE YOU DO THAT BECAUSE YOU DO NOT WANT TO BE DISTURBED. THAT SITUATION LEAVES ME WITH NO CONTACT IN CASE OF EMERGENCY. WITHOUT MY GOOD FRIENDS, I'D FEEL REALLY UP A CREEK IF I NEEDED HELP IN A HURRY.”

We do not adjust our phone so that you or anyone else cannot reach us. This is not a screening or do not disturb function. I have explained this to you many many times. We have a fax machine. The phone rings 4 times and then the fax machine engages. We do not have an answering machine. You know you can leave voicemails on our cell phones as you often already do. I was flat on my back in excruciating pain from surgery and was not able to use the phone any more to call anyone. You could have called (hubby) or (twin B) or emailed. You could have knocked on our door. If you can manage to get in your car and drive where you want, you can manage to come across the street. It is your choice if you choose to do nothing and then get angry about it. I believe you were aware that everyone was fine because you had (twin B) come over and pick up the Chicken Alfredo you purchased they day after my surgery from Costco and she told you we were all fine, yet you chose to continue to be angry and dwell on it. And verbally attacking (hubby) days after that when he came over to help you with your trash with cursing and shouting at him was absolutely unacceptable behavior. This kind of behavior is very alarming. If you are having this much trouble remembering events, you should speak to Dr. (blank) about this.

“I COULDN'T SLEEP WITH SO MANY THOUGHTS AND THE WORRY ABOUT (twin A's) SAFETY FLOATING AROUND IN MY MIND. IT WAS A LONG, SLEEPLESS NIGHT FOR ME BECAUSE OF THAT LACK OF CONSIDERATION FOR MY FEELINGS. I DETEST THESE MOMENTS OF DISSENSION SO VERY MUCH.

Again, you could have called (hubby) or (twin B) or emailed or come over. This was a choice you made. You knew I was not in any condition barely out of surgery to worry about following up with phone calls. You knew we were in the midst of a critical moment dealing with the situation at hand with our daughter that took great care and attention and time as parents. Perhaps you could have taken a moment to think about what we were dealing with and considered our feelings and our situation instead of just your own. If you choose to lay awake all night and dwell, that is your decision.

Everyone is at much dissension right now. We are on edge because we do not know when you are going to have an outburst or behave irrationally. We never know which (MIL) we are going to encounter. I wish you would bring this up with Dr. (blank). If you are having difficulty controlling this, it may be a sign of something serious. All four of us are upset because of the horrible things you say about me and (hubby) to our children. Perhaps you should consider my feelings when you are busy telling my children what a liar you think I am, how ignorant you think I am, how inconsiderate you think I am, and what an awful person you think I am. Perhaps you should consider (hubby’s) feelings when you do the same about him. We have remained mostly silent on this issue, but want you to know that we are made fully aware of it every time you do this. The few times I have mentioned it, you deny it or say you do not remember saying it or say that it was misunderstood. I do not believe you. I cannot understand why a grandmother would want her grandchildren hear such hateful things about their parents. There is also no need to write that scathing letter you told (twin A) about so you can reach from your grave to strike at us once more after you have passed. We already know what you think of us; you let us and our children know often enough how horrible you think we are. You have the right to think whatever you want. You do not have the right to verbally assault me or (hubby) to our children no matter how old they are. This is also not acceptable or rational behavior. Not one of us will tolerate it. It is destructive and you know it. From this point forward, I consider all of that done and buried, not open for debate, and expect that this behavior will cease and desist.

“AND, I DEEPLY FEEL THAT CONSIDERATION NEEDS TO BECOME A PART OF EVERYBODY'S ACTIONS. WHEN PROMISES ARE NOT KEPT, I BECOME RESENTFUL --- JUST LIKE EVERYONE ELSE. BOTH OF THE GIRLS HAVE BEEN GUILTY OF FAILING TO KEEP PROMISES LATELY, TOO. AND, THAT IS SOMETHING THAT I BELIEVE NEEDS TO BE ADDRESSED.”

I am not sure what you mean by not keeping promises. I know I certainly did not say “I promise to call you back.” I never say “I promise” unless it is something I know 100% I can and will be able to do. All four of us follow this principle.

I am done with the back and forth on all of this. You have said your peace and so have I. Now we move forward.

Aside from all of that, I would ask you again like we had talked in the past to come up with a list of the things you need help with. It is important to include things that will be on a recurring basis as well. It would work best if we could come up with a schedule so time can be made for these things and everyone knows what to expect. You can write down everything you need help with and we can discuss what is and is not reasonable and doable and then make a management schedule, keeping in mind that the four of us are already operating on a full-time schedule managing our household and our needs. There must be a healthy balance obtained to manage your needs while allowing us to manage our needs and this can be accomplished if we work together. The things we cannot manage can be addressed by hiring help or exploring community resources. We are definitely willing to help you, but you also have a responsibility to act appropriately toward us if you want our help. If appropriate behavior is becoming too difficult or not manageable for you, it is time for you to seek help from your physician as, again, this may be a sign of an underlying more serious problem.

Please email me your list of things you need help with once you have completed it. We can then, as a family, review it.

Love,
(ohjeezleweez)

***So, as the world turns, only time will tell to see if she takes this well or not. I don't have my hopes up very high. I don't know if I'm handling this right or not. I do feel good about her answering me in writing. I really prefer to communicate with her that way as there is no denying what was said. I still feel deep down that maybe I can get through to her, make her take some responsibility for her actions. Am I living in fantasy land? Maybe. Probably. But, at least there is some communication again.

N1K2R3, a narcissistic person can develop Alzheimer's or Lewy Body, or ... any kind of dementia, just as anyone else can. But I don't think there is a connection between them. Did you understand that there is?

qbearyq, yes, I can see where that would compliate things. But you are still not required to take her to use the camper. I can see where using it yourself and excluding her is not feasible under the circumstances. But not using it at all and doing something else (without her) that you enjoy makes sense to me. "Mother, we tried this camping business, but it didn't really turn out too well, did it? It doesn't seem to give you pleasure, and it is not pleasant for us to listen to you complain all weekend, so we're just going to stop doing this for a while."

Why repeatedly put yourself in a situation where everyone is miserable?

Try as I may, I simply cannot find a link between narcissism and dementia in either the PDR ( 2013), or the Merck Manual. I'll try to check the APA Journals, but so far, nothing has come up. I'll set aside Psychiatry and dig into Neurology to see what I can find.

Well that is easier said then done...she bought the camper and she has paid the lot rent for the year so its pretty difficult to tell her she can't go up there.

You tried something. It didn't work. So you stop doing it, right?

My dad died about 8 years ago and she reaquainted with a school friend who was her companion. He passed away last Oct. He was sick all last summer and we knew he was not going to live long. My mom was not acting near as badly the last 8 years while she was with him. I knew she was going to be very lonely and she had always camped with my dad. When a camper came available we thought it woud give her something to do rather than setting home alone, and she would enjoy it. I knew otherwise she would dig me for her setting at home by herself all the time. Had no idea her behavior was going to get this bad. We thought we were doing something to avoid it - it has backfired...

qbearyq, why on earth are you taking this negative, ungrateful person camping with you?

Thanks Emjoy.....Most of my moms downgrading is about everyone else but she does jab me in other ways. . . she downs everyone who is not working every minute. I always hear, you need to do this, you need to do that, why haven't you separated your lillies, you need to paint this, you need to clean out your garage, why is Mike sleeping until 9 on Sat morning he gets too much sleep. She thinks you are supposed to work non stop. I try to explain to her there is not enough hours in the day for me to get this stuff done. Easy for her to say because she has not held a regular job for 50 years...she worked for a short time in a factory. Rest of her life my dad and her were self employed and she would ride with him as he worked on vending machines, did the books and counted the change. We bought the camper because I wanted somewhere I could go and get away from the work - out of site out of mind.....but I can't relax because I have to be entertaining her nonstop or listening to her complain about how she wants to die. I felt lousy yesterday and I know it was because my blood pressure was up. I'm probably going to have a stroke before she does.

qbearyq - please look after you. and let your mom know that the negative comments are not acceptable to you. You need to draw some boundaries with her. Have you looked at the "daughtersofnarcissisticmothers" web site? Google that phrase and learn about yourself and your mum. She will drag you down and only you can put a stop to that. You and Mike need some relaxing time away from her. No matter what you do it will never be good enough, and she will always compare you negatively with others -her problem and don't let it be yours. So take charge of your life, do what is reasonable for your mum, but also do what is reasonable for you and Mike. If taking her with you camping every weekend is a downer, don't take her every weekend. You don't have to. Cut yourself some slack, and take some time for you. She will complain whatever you do - you know that. You can't make her happy. Work on making yourself happy, and keeping your own sanity. Counselling helps too. I go when I need to. Being brought up by a mother like yours, and mine, makes life much harder, and we need all the help we can get. ((((((((((((((hugs)))))))))))))))

Ohjeeze, you all have ur hands full! Thinking of u n sorry to hear about surgery. Glad u r staying focused on ur recovery, rather than MIL's constant issues. I'd let mr nosey neighbor know that in spite of how things might appear, u all do LOTS for MIL, rather than justify other obligations? Maybe he'd like to help w those compression stockings, hahaha!! Congrats on the new position. Keep up the good effort protecting ur immediate family!! Kimbee

I feel horrible and I am pretty sure it is my blood pressure up....such a stressful weekend...I'm going to have a stroke and my mom is going is really going to be up a crick...ug....She sat with her head on her chest and her arms crossed and pouted all weekend yet again..took her for a golf cart ride and she she starts ragging that if she owned this campground kids wouldn't be allowed to drive them, she complains non stop and is always screaming at my dog because she hates dogs. She doesn't like it because I walk Cosmo with my girlfriend so we do not eat breakfast until about 9:30 at the camper...she wants to eat when she gets up at 5 in the morning..I have to do that every work day so my weekend should be my weekend ..We used to stay Sun night but don't anymore...its miserable enough getting thru Sunday day....My husband says she would like nothing more than for us to get a divorce so she can have him out of the picture and me at her beck and call. When I dropped her off she childishly informed me she had moved her thermostat down to 60 because she was tired or my husband complaining how hot it is in her apt....he always teases because she has it so hot in there and I am the opposite and keep our house so cold....she also told her friend she wasn't going to have anything else to do with her because Mike doesn't like her. Mike feels like she uses my mom because my mom has worked for her at the last 2 jobs she has had and doesn't pay my mom. She does get my mom out of the house though so I tell him to keep his mouth shut (which doesn't work). But he is right, it doesn't matter what he says, or I say, she finds a way to bring something negative out of it. But the same conversation she ripped me again about how she was going with them on vacation in 2 wks because she hasn't had a vacation in years (because we don't take her with us on ours - but we found her a camper next to ours so she could go every weekend - of course that doesn't county - never ever enough)....I read what everyone else says and I don't know how you are all keeping your sanity....I feel like I am going to lose it soon....

thx Hank. I know you are a guy, It works for sons too. As I recall there is a family busines in your situation, which complicates things for you. I don't think it is as simple as EFT (tapping tehniques), but they probably don't hurt. I have given up any emotional ties to whatever material inheritance I may or may not receive. There is too much opportunity for manipulation attached to that. It was freeing.

I find I need distance and detachment to heal.

ojeez and grace - with all respect to you, Grace, for what you have achieved, being "nice" does not work with everyone. I have found that drawing boundaries works better for me and mother. The "nicer" I am (and what being "nice" is is up for interpretation, I know), the more mother walks over me. She shows me more respect when I maintain boundaries, and sees caring and compassion as weaknesses, and opportunities to "pounce" and to take advantage..
I find being informed about her condition is very helpful, and also not playing into her "games" or enabling her illness.
ojeez - I know the criticisms of not doing things her way, or dressing the ways she thinks I should etc etc. How do you respond to her? I find that drawing a boundary -for example - if she wants to hire people to do things her way, it is her choice, if she wants to save money and allow you and your husband to help her, you will so the best you can to do it "right", but you don't want to hear criticism of your efforts. Useful feedback is one thing, continual criticism is another, and not acceptable. I have told mother that I do not appreciate her negative comments about my appearance, and she has for the most part, stopped making them. I also told her that I did not want to hear about so-and-so and how they mistreated her any more because I had heard it many times before, and all her negative comments did was spoil the time we had together. It was in the past, nothing could be done about it, and it is over. She has spoken about this person must less. since. By the way, this was a live in nanny who worked very hard to help mother, and look after her, and was met by nothing but criticism and nastiness. She finally quit. Mother referred to her as a sewer rat. I don't want to hear anyone referred to like that from anybody. You are being emotionally abused by your mil's OCD or whatever it is. Please draw some boundaries. I do hear you are feeling guilty and for what? She is a person with sone serious problems. You don't have to go back and take more of this. Please work on detachment. recognising that you are not in a "normal" situation, so the "normal" epectations don't apply. jeannegibbs has quoted from a book by a psychologist who believes that children of abusive parents (and that includes emotional abuse) should not be caregivers directly, but only oversee the caregiving. So please accept that your mil is not mentally healthy, and that skews your situation considerably. You are not a failure as a caregiver. Please take the steps you need to, to feel better about yourself. A few session of counselling for you and your husband may help you to see what you are dealing with, and give you some ideas how to better manage it. People with these problems set you up in a lose lose pattern, and you do feel defeated continually, until you start to set your own guidelines/limits Good luck

hadenough -yes it is your life and you (we all) need to take your (our) life back from people who try to turn it into a downer. Your mother sounds narcissistic, if she got upset when you were in hospital because the attention was not on her. Mine is the same. Emotional distancing is protective.
(((((((hugs))))))) to all - it isn't easy.

emjo - Great info on the Narcissistic Mothers website! (and I'm a guy!) Mom and I have the Henry and Edsel Ford thing going.

(Just Google "Daughters Narcissistic Mothers" and it should come right up)

The author is into "acupressure/tapping" as a treatment. (Reminds me of the guy in Remo Williams... "Lesson 22 - Blessed Silence!" If it were only that easy...)

Oh yes I understand this well. My Mother was always self-centered (well we all are to some degree) but she is now completely consumed with herself. I guess you have to be when you age but it is sooo hard to deal with at times. When I was in the hospital it actually made her angry because the focus was not on her for a little while. It would not be so bad if she just had some interests beside herself. The way I handle it is to not take it personally which is really hard. If I was an employee of her - actually I am - just don't get paid -haha, I would let it roll off my back but it is my MOM who knows every little insecurity I have. The dynamic is strange but she really is childlike now. I have to remember that when she says totally off the wall stuff and I start to react like a teenager. She is not who she was anymore - sad but true. Hang in there... enjoy your new job and try and balance out your life. It is still YOUR life. Much sympathy....

Hi gbearyg - it really has been a great help to me. The list is under characteristics of narcissistic mothers. Even though she is not my mother, my husband is her only child and we have been married for 18 years, so in my case, a lot of it applies because she has been there nearly all of my adult life. Like I said before, it has also opened a window of insight into my husband as well; why he reacts the way he does, why he has a steel shield, and how he handles relationships with others. It breaks my heart to watch her treat him with such hate and contempt, and now I know it has been his lifetime of mental abuse and rejection.

Grace7 - what an interesting point you brought up. I didn't even realize I was referring to her as "the" MIL. When I talk about her, I say "my" MIL, or use her name. I wonder if this is a subliminal detachment at work here or it simply just flowed from my typing fingers. It is true my heart is hardening. I have tried and tried the compassionate approach, but there are certainly blocks of time where my feelings are cold and I lose any compassion at all. Because of her narcissistic personality, I don't believe she can differentiate between me being compassionate or autonomic, nor do I believe she cares as long as her needs/wants are being met. We are the 'hired for free' help. If we don't do exactly what she wants, we are 'fired' until she needs us again. Chores are nitpicked to the bone "my gardener would have know what to do" - "my housekeeper always does it my way" - "so-and-so will go out of his way to do anything for me." We tell her they are doing exactly what she wants because they are professionals and she is paying them, not because they care. She says we are making her waste her money away because we don't care enough to do it right. It is so hard to work with her because nothing is ever good enough. She will literally stand right over me, inches from me, and nitpick my every move and get me to do it over and over again until it is perfect (things in my eyes that don't matter, for example, a vase on a table must be measured to the center, not just placed in the middle). I suppose this is another personality disorder - OCD?

As long as she is of sound enough mind and has enough money, this will continue. I believe it would be easier if she actually were completely dependent and we had control over her care, but I also know that is a caregiver fantasy. It is so maddening because I do really feel I should be doing all these things for her and taking care of her because she is my husband's mother, and she is old, and we are her only family; because, because, because.

I feel so down today. She is refusing to speak to me or my husband because he walked out on her the other day with the trash incident. She will keep this up until one of us calls her or goes over there to see how she is doing. Then the the guilt trip and the blame will start all over again. I feel like crying today. I feel defeated.

You are an unusual person, Grace7.

Can you find it in your heart to refer to her as your MIL instead of the MIL? When our people act out it is only natural to push them away for their bad behaviour - I did - but out of desperation I tried the opposite approach and it has helped me/us. I have made a sincere attempt to be closer, more compassionate and less judgemental, not easy when they are cursing you out, but I kept it up steady and we have turned a corner. Things are better, not saying there won't be more histrionics in the future but we are able to enjoy each other more now. Better for the whole family. Good luck to you, I wish you the best in your efforts to understand this difficult family issue.

I didn't know that there may be a connection between Dementia, Clinical Depression and Narcissism. I have not heard of this.
I'll research this next week. My medical contacts are not as available as they once were.

So well stated, Hank!