I'm not even sure how to ask this question...Just like a lot of us, I grew up with a childhood I wouldn't want to re-do...any way fast forward 60 years ( ugh) I finally figured out I wasn't alone, there are tons of us out there dealing with horrid situations of a nasty, miserable to the core mother.
If you read a lot of the threads we are in our late 40's, most of us are 60! Seems like there is an entire generation of us who are dealing with the ramifications of angry hateful spiteful mothers. Was it in the water? WW2 issues, they all can't be born with dementia!? Were they born with mental illness? Was this a social environment learned behavior? How did this happen?
When/where or why did narcissism become a way of life back then? How was it ok?
That pretty much set the stage for the rest of it, don't even ask about teenager time. I couldn't go to college, I was gonna get knocked up and waste the money. Then I met and married the " drunk, the loser"- we are married 40 yrs. He has bad legs, thusly "the drunk" walk and the loser twist. I then had 2 kids- should have had only one-"SHE is just like her father", my son walks on water in her eyes. So ya, ok, by now you get where I am going...but where did this generation of parent come from? Why did the men stay?
I also think that generation of women thought a lot more of MEN than they ever thought of women. My narcissistic mother worships the ground my son walks on, in spite of him showing her very little attention, while thinking my sweet daughter is 'less-than', in spite of her doing so much MORE for my mother. Whenever I give my mother a gift, she thanks my HUSBAND, regardless that he had nothing to DO with said gift! She flirts shamelessly with all the men she meets, while finding something to snipe at with all the women she meets. She's never been able to maintain a real friendship because there's always something wrong with the so-called friend.
I couldn't go to college either, but again, I think that was a belief of the times: women belonged at home, in the kitchen & raising children vs. out in the dog-eat-dog world of the working stiffs. I'm sorry I did not find a WAY to go to college MYSELF, and learn a profession or a trade. I blame myself for that more so than my father.
I think my father stayed with my mother because she made him feel like the biggest loser on earth. He'd tell her to divorce him, but he'd never initiate such a thing........that generation didn't believe in divorce, really and I think he truly loved her, in spite of her hideous behavior. Mother became more & more demanding & bitter since father could not give her what she wanted & deserved, children, and as her bitterness grew, so did HIS feeling of worthlessness. I was adopted, so mother had to 'settle' for the 'less than' child, not the one of her dreams. She felt she was 'doing him a favor' by staying with him, when in reality, she NEEDED a man to take care of her.
I don't have the answers to the questions you ask, that's for sure. I do know that it's not easy for us to be taking care of parents that were/are narcissistic, and that does not make us 'bad' people. Nobody should minimize what we've been through, or trivialize it, or tell us we're wrong to feel the way we do, and to pull on our big girl panties and suck it up. For me, the beauty of this forum is that most of us can understand & empathize with one another. We can share our struggles without expecting to be laughed at or put down for having such struggles. They're all valid, they're all real, and it's okay to feel the pain of those struggles and to share them. I know many contributors here have helped me through the years, as I know I've helped some myself. That's what it's all about, isn't it?
When someone hijacks a thread, can we not see that? Do we have to chase them down and further hijack the thread by telling others they are not ,as entitled, as we are to have a personal opinion and experience?
When someone uses words like normal on this thread, they obviously don't get it, it's not about having a normal mom, its about those batchit crazy moms that do such loving things like burn their kids with cigarettes just because, it's about letting a man screw a little girl because you have so much hate in you that you actually get off on hurting anyone and anything, its about the mom that didn't make sure there was food in the house but had her booze and drugs and cigarettes and gambling money, did it matter her kids were starving, not for a heartbeat. So you can see how far their reality is from any actual psychey changing abuse. You can't ever understand until you've lived it. You can't battle against that folks.
Every single one of us here is entitled to our opinions and we all say what we want, just because we don't like it doesn't mean we should attack it. Can't you see, they win as soon as you defend yourself against what was said, they are laughing their ass off because they can post and create turmoil and in fighting. Think about that, seriously.
No one that has been traumaticly abused can say, it's all good, no hard feeling, yep, ill give up my life to take care of you with a smile and a song. My mom thought she was abused because she had to do the dishes, so we all know that there are perspectives of abuse and because someone says they were abused doesn't mean they have a clue what abuse looks like.
To say that someone fighting for freedom of speech is obviously an abuser is as unacceptable as the cream filled caked belittling every poster. We are all entitled to voice our opinions but i think we need to be careful that we don't act like a bunch of hens that attack someone different or weak until they leave or we kill them because we don't like what they say.
I have seen advise freely given on how to get a woman kicked out of her own house, how to hustle the system and how to hurt siblings that won't follow someone else's desires, and i have seen posters get ripped for calling out inappropriate behavior, maybe we can start the new year by letting others have their say and if we don't like it, don't read it, maybe we can encourage people to do the right thing when they ask our advice on how to break laws and maybe we can remember we are only getting one side of every story.
I am certain that some will think I'm a fine one to talk, yep, the above applies to me as well.
We have some really knowledgable posters that freely share their professional advice, free of charge, so we will attract undesirable questions but we need to show more courtesy and appreciation to one another and pray they don't leave, taking their education and experience with them.
I think the answer is simple. It is off topic to the subject. It is also insensitive.
I work with abused people. It would be like me sitting back in my chair and saying, well I had wonderful parents. Sorry yours were so crappy. But aren't you just happy for me that mine were so wonderful.
When someone has an issue the best thing to do is to offer support and comfort. Not start bragging about your own wonderful situation.
Telling an abused person, who has just complained about abusive parents, that they themselves had wonderful parents, is insensitive unkind and is pointless because it does not offer comfort and support. It likely makes the person feel worse.
I think that is rather simple to understand, if a person is intellectual and empathetic.
That's not to say that these abused people may not be happy for someone who has good parents. It's just to say that when they seek support for their plight, that is the wrong time to start rhapsodizing about your own wonderful parents.
Doing so would make the person feel worse, and that is abusive pure and simple, by any standard of empathy.
Btw: informing someone that they hijacked the thread in a way that can be hurtful to the original poster is not hijacking the thread.
It is also a way to offer support to the original poster who posted the original topic.
You do also realize that your are also disagreeing with other opinions, even as you talk about freedom of speech, etc, right??????????????
I agree. It is wonderful for Twinkie that she has decided to forgive her abusive/narcissistic parents and move on.
Still, Twinkie, has no right to further abuse others who have RIGHTFULLY REFUSED TO FORGIVE THEIR ABUSERS.
Enabling abusive behavior is likely the reason why there are so many abusive parents who get away with it.
And also WHY THE ABUSIVE CYCLE CONTINUES DOWN THE FAMILY LINE.
In some European countries, emotional abuse is a crime.
In the US a parent is only considered abusive if the child shows physical bruises.
IMO, enabling abuse and ignoring it is just as bad as being an abuser.
I'm going to try to leave emotions out if this. I (truly) am glad you had an epiphany at an early age that none of your circumstances were you're fault or problem. That is a sign that you've "worked through" the bad situations you were in. For some of us, this process has taken years, if not decades, and some are still "stuck" and are still working on it. It's easy (once you have "seen the light") to say-"Just do this or think that" and you'll be set free from a lifetime of emotional struggling. It's too bad you don't see that it's not that easy. It's like being in quicksand, you can keep your head above it but you can't climb out altogether.
Both my parents were alcoholics too. Mom was still legally married (but separated from) alcoholic husband #1 when she met my dad (alcoholic husband to be #2) at (what else), a cocktail party. After a few nights of intercourse (not love-making), she got pregnant. She was a bigamist by marrying my dad when she legally couldn't. The first 5 years of my life were filled with drunken fights-he'd hit her with the booze bottle and she'd scratch his face (to bleeding) with her long nails, both screaming and falling down. My best friend was my teddy bear. I still have him. He was the receptacle for my tears.
This is NOTHING compared to what some posters on this board have suffered. I count myself as fortunate.
My mother felt so bad for HER mother because she had so many kids (7) and had to work so hard, so she never wanted any. (Oh well Mom, should of kept your legs closed.) She did what she had to with me but you could tell I was in the way. They divorced (thank God) when I was 5. Mom married 2 more drunks after that. Dad had his fair share of women but never married again. They played mind games with me throughout my younger life, making me believe I was crazy.
Mother was narcissistic (confirmed by my aunt) from the beginning. Mom would cut me down for my weight, my hair, etc. and was never warm nor loving. Dad said I'd wind up "barefoot and pregnant". Both were scared sh*tless that I'd actually "be somebody". I moved out at 17, never to look back. I became a nurse. I'd host holidays but that was about it.
Was I emotionally scarred? Hell yes. I finally got into therapy on the urging from my (now) ex but that's a long involved trip. I'll be 62 in 9 days and I think I've forgiven them as best I can. Not everyone makes it this far. I sure didn't ask to be born into that, nor did I expect to have a son (a gifted child) who is a heroin addict nor be caring for a 96 year old mother with Alzheimer's. I'm going to put it all aside and try to enjoy the years I have left. I will then welcome Heaven with open arms. Finally an opportunity to live without physical or emotional pain and be in the presence of the Most High!
Life hurts at times. Depending on many factors, you may "get over it" or not. Please have compassion for those that CAN'T get to that point (for whatever reason)! We are all "in process" and a work in progress to free ourselves of the suffering given us.
I saw where y'all jumped all over the poor soul who dared share his childhood (happy) with the armed services family etc. No one was happy with him either, how DARE he open his mouth, express an opinion contrary to x y z?
@Hope4Peace A little less snark, holier than thou righteousness and self pity please. You think I haven't 'been through something'? What is this? Who's suffered the worst abuse contest? I'm adding my two cents just like anyone else, and my two cents says that perhaps people need to look at their own attitudes/reactions towards their so/lo/mil whoever, and see if perhaps THEY THEMSELVES aren't a part of the problem. Attitude is everything.
You have no idea what my childhood was like, and I can guarantee you there was plenty to be upset about, but I'm not obsessing and fingering it like dirty laundry that I just can't seem to let go. This is what I'm pointing out in this entire thread. This whole victim identity and the endless round and round about labeling things, discovering the 'name' of something (narcissism etc) as if that's going to give you power over the suffering - it doesn't. I don't see alot of healthy direction in this thread, precisely why I wrote in, because I see a lot of people demanding recognition for their suffering from their 'aggressor' and expectations that their suffering will one day magically disappear if they can just talk about it enough, name it, etc. None of that works in my opinion. Sorry if that upsets any of you.
@Cantdance thank you for a most reasonable reply back, appreciate it. While everyone is so busy pointing fingers at aggressors and protecting their victim status, there's somehow also the expectation that victims are going to get closure from the very same people they accuse of being batchit crazy and/or mentally ill. It's simply not going to happen. Which is why I am talking about dialing it back to simple pure love. I don't care about the "I never asked to be born" argument, and the "my mother had an obligation to raise me because she popped me out, but I don't have an obligation to her now because she was such a biotch to me" etc...Yup, I'll just be at odds here.Nowhere in the bible does it say it is correct for a child to neglect their parent that I am aware. If you are dealing with someone who is mentally off, incompetent, etc, all the more reason to rise high and dig deep if you are the one giving care now to who gave you life. I don't dwell in the past. I don't believe in victim mentality. My parents were both alcoholics, I had plenty of 'abuse' growing up, but it simply was about THEM, not me! I knew that even then. I'm not 'belittling' or 'degrading' anyone on this thread - or their 'suffering' - am just saying there's a different way to look at this game, get on with it, and start living life.
@worriedinCali Right back at ya, vulgarity thrown out at someone who's simply expressing their opinion(freedom of speech etc)is sooo UN*ssholish, right? Ya just can't make this up.
@FrazzledMama, thank you also for a reasonable reply (take notes Cali). No one is judging you individually here, it's just a striking 'can't see the forest for the trees' feeling inside this thread! I think there's way too much emphasis on blame! Vilification! So many point the finger labeling someone a narcissist but THEY actually sound the one who is narcissistic. Fine line there!
@Shell38314 actually I was out the door at 14, does cleaning up mother's chit on the bathroom floor because she was always so drunk she couldn't make it give me bonus points in the abused victim scale?
@golden23 Not interested in comparing child war wounds!
@MaryKathleen ? First woman producer/production company (Desilu)in Hollywood, also produced the series Mission Impossible and Star Trek! Pretty Rockin'!
1) people with "normal" mothers do not end up asking for help on a website like this one as often as people who have difficult mothers do. I think it is a big factor.
2) Mental illnesses like personality disorders were not recognized nor treated in the past, I remember a doctor coming to our house when mother was about 40, She screamed and yelled and raged at him and told him to get out. As I showed him to the door, he said, "I am afraid you are in for a very rough time.", There was no diagnosis nor treatment - no resources.
3) No one talked about it. They may have whispered, but in general families kept their secrets. People knew that Aunt Hetta, or Mrs White down the street, were different, and difficult to get along with, but no one looked into it further.
To look down the generations, the ones with personality disorders used to be labelled as eccentrics. The ones of my generation, that I know of, were "difficult people" maybe vaguely termed sociopathic or narcissistic. In my dd's generation and beyond, for the first time I see actual diagnoses and treatment, though there is no silver bullet.
Of course I am speaking of a very small sample, but I do see this pattern in some that post here.
I once read of a person who had cared for an Alz patient who was normal before they got it, who had also cared for a person with a personality disorder. Hands down they would care for an Alz patient any day before the one with then personality disorder.
Those of us caring for aging and sometimes demented, personality disordered, parents have few good memories to go on and are likely suffering from childhood emotional neglect if not abuse. Children need more than to be fed and have their bum wiped. They need to be nurtured.Those whose parents gave them a normal upbringing bring the great advantage of having been loved and nurtured by their parent into the care giving arena. It makes a huge difference.
So many women on here are looking back trying to make sense of why they're 'stuck with the nasty shrew from the nasty era', but they are still looking through eyes completely tainted by their own modernity and mindset. You can't speak as to what it was like to live back then because YOU didn't live during the time of your mil/lo nor were you raised during that time, hence, you'll never be able to understand how it was through their eyes and skin. YOU don't accept certain behaviors and situations today in society but you're looking at this topic like ALL women, ALL the time back in the day, were just bristling with yearning for what is available for women TODAY; is the accepted and the norm today. It doesn't work like that. Most of you seem to think these women were absolutely hating their lives, stuck, angry, miserable, simply because YOU would feel that way if you had to go back in time to this imagined 'he ll'. Similar to how Westerner's judge other cultures using their Western yardstick and mindset - they never crack the code to true understanding because their eyes are completely blinded by their 'ethnocentric lens' bias and ignorance, they remain the Ugly American and wonder why they are called arrogant and ignorant. Kind of like the current craziness in post feminism to vilify Lucille Ball and sneer that 'she was no role model' and toss her onto the rubbish heap of the past as an embarrassment to all women. No. Lucille Ball was rocking it in HER day and absolutely a strong role model for women during that time.
Am not saying I don't believe that any of you don't have legitimate gripes about whoever you are caregiving, but I find it surprising that so many of you seem to absolutely VILIFY these women as if they are the source of all of your problems. I would be interested to know how many of you were raised by 'city' women versus 'country' and how many raised with a belief in God, as that might have a wee bit to do with it.
As much as my mother tests my patience and makes me want to pound my head against a wall at times, she gave birth to me, she gave me LIFE, and life is precious. Do none of you feel joy? Aren't you THANKFUL for your LIFE? She gave you that. She also wiped your bottom time after time, when she probably had no desire whatsoever to lift your legs in the air, dive right in with her hands and a rag and clean out that mess. Think about it. No, am not guilt tripping you, am just speaking a reality. If your mother diapered you, wiped your butt, fed you, made sure you were clothed warmly, rocked you to sleep when SHE needed sleep, combed brushed your hair, made sure you brushed teeth, took you to the dentist and doctor when you needed it, made sure you went to school etc, what exactly is the payback here that you don't understand? I don't care how 'narcissistic' someone is, if they loved you enough that you survived to this point than count yourself blessed. Sorry if this puts me at odds with many people here but this thread sounds like a lot of whining without enough proper perspective, gratitude and not much spiritual upbringing. My mother is who she is. She gave me life, also suffered caring for ME. I RESPECT HER. I can never repay her enough for that, doesn't make me a doormat, Maybe try giving your mil/lo some honest acceptance/love without the know it all disdain.
Many on this thread are trying to understand "mental illness" of their loved one. Or catastrophic cultural changes. Or family dynamics. If you reject that introspection, analysis, sharing, comparisons, hypotheses, seeking help and understanding are one of the right things to do, then you should seek another thread.
Your belittling of people who have experienced abuse or don't know if they have, shows very little understanding or tolerance of the dynamics. By your arguments, mothers should be honored and obeyed 100% and we should alter our god-given perceptions to better honor your god. Is this the same god that gave us brains? If that god gave us life, doesn't our life matter as well? Not all of us want to dishonor or hurt our mothers. My guess is that many of us are struggling, til our death and for our sanity, to love our mothers in spite of their and our own afflictions.
Your post particularly hurt because your words eerily reflected my mother when she was at her worst, inside my brain, controlling my soul, threatening my life. My poor mother was so traumatized in her own childhood that during breakdowns she goaded her children to kill themselves. My brother did. We kids lived with brother's threats, his planted bombs and weapons, and his escalating in-home shooting. Can you imagine what pain went on in my brother's desperate attempt to live and defend himself while honoring mother? When my Mom was good, she was great! When she was breaking down we all felt our lives were about to end -- how cruel can you be to say that I should have not reacted as though she was toxic? Or that I should not derive emotional calming and read rational discussion from people who have experienced trauma? Or that we as a human race should not try to articulate better ways of coping than derision and gaslighting?
If they would not walk away, they would be encouraged to get them treatment for being co-dependent on their abuser.
A lot of people rug-sweep parental abuse.
Yes. A lot of people put up with parental abuse rather than walking away.
No one should enable an abuser by sticking around to accept their abuse.
IMO, if everyone was sanctioned to walk away from a parental abuser, the parents would not be enable to continue to abuse their offspring.
Any way, our Mom was very confident, she grew up fast due to her Mother being a weekend alcoholic and a very quick tempered Father. She raised herself and her 2 brothers. She always told us we could be whatever we wanted, but we had to work on it ourselves because your future isn't given to you unless you just don't care.
When my brother started kindergarten, she went back to work so we are also the era of the 1st latch key kids.
Mom finished high school, married, children as expected. What we didn't know was how smart she was. She also had many childhood friends who grew up to become very important people. I met the granddaughter of 1 of those friends of all places a Love's truck stop ladies room. Her grandfather was Senator Barry Goldwater. It was like old home week there in the middle of Love's!
When Mom went back to work she was a clerk in the bank Commercial Credit Lending dept. These were very BIG COMPANIES she had to research financially etc. My Mom ended up being the Bank Officer of Operations over this department. Although I wanted to be a teacher, my Father refused to help me financially to get there, but Mom put me on my path in banking. I started as a clerk typist and when I left, I was the Banking Officer of Operations for our Foreign Exchange dept.
Although I always had my mind set to be a History teacher, Mom showed me want I needed to do to get somewhere in a career I never wanted, but I was happy to go to work everyday.
My Mom helped me to become her child who now takes care of her in many ways no one ever thinks they will need. She taught me how to research, get the answers, be positive and back my research i.e. attorneys now. The best lesson learned, how to follow the money which my step-sister never really accepted I could prove she committed fraud in so many ways.
My Mom was the greatest influence in my life. We didn't get along all of the time, puberty does that to all of us, but she knew she could count on me when she needed someone in her darkest hours. I can't think of the hours becoming any darker than slowly watching this woman fade away.
My sister text me about how Mom thinks she placed her in this facility and won't talk to her. Truthfully, she did and I think she feels the guilt because I took Mom out of a ghastly situation and now she is being waited on hand/foot, medical treatment monthly, hairdresser, proper diet for her diabetes etc. I told her to feel blessed that we all have Mom with us for now and go with that and accept the disease as it is and see the good, not the bad right now.
Yes, far too many grew up with "horrible" Mothers/Fathers, but if you still have them, feel lucky that you do.
Merry Christmas
If you were born in the 50's, 60's, or the 70's our mothers lived through the aftermath of the great depression, WWII, the 50's where women were expected to marry and have children, and the 60's where the women broke out of their homemaker role, not sure what happened in the 70's except they became selfish. In my case!
My final thought, our mothers grew up with no one believing in them and them not believing in themselves, therefore, they couldn't believe in us, so in turn, causing low expectations, low self-esteem, and low self worth.
Just my 2 cents!
Take care of you and let them live the consequences of their choices. Being stubborn is only acceptable when you aren't requiring help. People believe they are living at home and nothing has changed, I bet you don't believe that one.
If they can afford it, hire a home chef to come in weekly to prepare meals, if they can't get them set up with meals on wheels.
Being unkind and ungrateful to your caregiver only works when you pay that person to do what they do.
Was your mom an alcoholic? Mine was a Narcissist and a drunk. She beat and emotionally abused me until she was to demented to carry on.
My sister is also a Narcissist, but with different characteristics. I didn’t realize my mom was one until I was reading about how to deal with my sister.
Now I know why they fought like they did. They BOTH knew everything, never accountable for what they destroyed or for their actions. And they were ALWAYS RIGHT... even if you could prove them wrong.
I am Bi Polar. The PERFECT TARGET for the Narcissist. I was the weak one and they could break me down in an instant. And they did.
After around 30 or 35 YEARS of therapy, I get it. I can’t do anything about it. They will never seek help or admit faults. They take credit when it isn’t due, they are perfect...
Mom is gone. When her estate is closed, I have decided to walk away from my sister. If she weren’t family, I would have never chosen her for a friend or to be in my life.
Just curious, did both your parents drink? Were they physically abusive to each other? To you and your siblings?My dad drank too but wasn’t physically or emotionally abusive. He defended himself from her attacks. My sister was the first born. She saw more than I did. But like you said, a lot of us suffered through childhood with Narcissism.
I wonder if there is a connection with Narcissism and Dementia. There sure are a lot of posts from adult children regarding both issues and mostly with moms.
I will ask my therapist. Maybe we can shed some light on it.
In your case, walk away from your narc sister. I wonder if my sister saw me that way? It was always us against the world my narc mom was busy taking care of herself.
1. "You were an accident."
2. "You were a lot of trouble to raise, and I had no help."
3. "Men aren't attracted to you."
4. "You had no business having children."
About 20 years ago, I overheard Mom tell her friend I was (her) competition for Dad's affection. She ridiculed me and my choice of friends, diminished my accomplishments, and when she wasn't ridiculing my boyfriends she was flirting with them.
I didn't "get it" as a teenager, but now I do. Mom was threatened by me and especially jealous of the mutual affection I shared with my dad. Had it not been for my dad, I wouldn't have known what love is. I wish as a teenager I'd understood this; that the problem wasn't with me but the woman who gave birth to me. She had to tear me down to feel better about herself.
The fallout was pretty bad. I thought I was worthless. Ugly. Stupid. A social nitwit. So I spent my life making poor choices because I thought I didn't deserve any better, engaged in self-sabotage, turned my anger in on myself: a perfect recipe for chronic depression and anxiety. I will own my poor choices. I made a bunch of 'em. But I 'll always wonder how different life would have been if I'd believed in myself, or thought myself worthy of love rather than contempt and abuse.
People aren't perfect. Parents make mistakes. I get that. Still, I wish I'd had a mother who didn't resent me, who didn't emotionally abuse me and try to destroy my relationships with others. You know, a mother who actually loved and raised me, instead of leaving me to myself to raise. Every Mother's Day is hell.
So I just want to say, I truly don't know what circumstances mold women into creatures who can't love their daughters.
Llamalover47
I think she also was jealous because my dad loved me. That was my Aunt's take on it anyway. As mom told me once, she never cared about me. She didn't care if I needed anything. She just didn't care. By the way, she would tell me that she only took care of me until my dad got home from work, then he took care of me. My little brother was the golden child. He was a boy and the baby.
I was raised to believe I had no rights. After a lot of therapy, I asked her about it. She said she was trying to teach me that so I could survive. I guess that showed her raising.
As an adult, I was a mess. I wasn't a good mother. What haunted me then and still does to this day is, I knew I wasn't a good mother but I didn't know what to do about it. I would have committed suicide but I knew my children would go to my mother and I couldn't let that happen. This was in the 1960s - 1970's when therapy wasn't as accepted as it is now. I had PMS very bad, again not recognized then, I had to fight suicide every month. I also belonged to a church that did not believe in therapy. Finally, in 1982. I got brave, told my daughters I wanted to break the chain of abuse. I started the long journey, took over 6 years and 3 therapists. I still struggle with my feelings of worthlessness. Since I am 84 I guess I will to my grave.
It is hard when from babyhood you are told you are ugly, "You can't help being ugly but you don't have to have your picture taken". "Your skin has too large of pores, everyone looking at you knows you are just white trash and will never amount to anything". "You are ugly and will just have to develop a good personality". Everything I tried to do was met with "That is OK, but ........."
I did take care of her until her death. I promised my dad I would because my brother wouldn't have anything to do with her. However, I couldn't stand for her to touch me. After therapy, I finally could touch her once in a while, but I never could stand for her to touch me. It is a good thing she could take care of her own physical needs, because I would never have been able to touch her to do it.
My mom didn't outright tell me that she didn't care about my needs or feelings, but her actions showed it. My grandmother treated her much the same as your grandmother treated hers (disliked because she was the only girl, and girls were not valued). It was a cycle of dysfunction passed on from my grandmother to my mom, and then to my sister and I. Mom endured a lot and ended up personality disordered with a lot of narcissistic tendencies. Then I too struggled with being a mom to my oldest kids, and made a lot of mistakes. I realized how I too was dysfunctional and a mess and sought therapy to learn how to be a better mom and break those patterns. Still a work in progress.
I believe when we don't have a frame of reference for what is healthy, we just muddle through and we get a lot of things wrong, but once we're able to finally break free and start learning healthier habits and ways of relating, our past can both make us stronger and help others.
I try to give my mom grace too (sometimes easier said than done, but I try) and remember that she's dealt with a lot herself that she's never gotten help for. That still doesn't keep me from wanting to pull my hair out when I'm with her a lot of the time though!
That woman was my mother. That woman is gradually, slowly becoming me. There was a time when our younger parents had no pain. Does anyone really want to age? Sure, teens do, but then reach age 40 & want to reverse the aging clock. This lady " what the heck happened?"-she aged.