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64 years old, lives in mother in law suite that is not set up for safety. She receives social security and can make her own decisions. She is a Texas resident.


She fell after a UTI and broke arm. She has been a fall risk (fell in past). She does not take good care of herself, lives in her recliner. Unable to be left alone following the most recent accident.


Medicaid only. No one is responsible for her, no POA.

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Definitely do not sign. You are not POA and by signing you could make yourself responsible for her bills.
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I don't understand why a UTI and a broken arm means she cannot stay alone. 64 yrs old and cannot do for herself? What other illnesses does she suffer from? My Mom broke her shoulder, rehabed and went on to take care of my Dad till he passed when she was 78.

Can she afford an Assisted Living.? Thats 5k or more a month and that depends on the care she needs. Doesn't seem she is ready for Longterm care with Medicaid paying and Medicaid does not usually pay for Assisted Living.

The arm will heal and she can get in home therapy if doctor feels she needs it. What is causing her falls? Can u not put in the safety features she needs.

No to your question. You are not responsible for Moms care. If she is competent, she can sign papers. But SS alone will not pay for her care in an AL and Medicaid will not pick up the slack because she may not fit their criteria for LTC.
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katmom Oct 2022
The doctor said it would take 6 weeks for her arm to heal she cannot get on and off of the toilet by herself and she cannot get in and out of the recliner by herself
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Never ever sign something that will make you responsible for her bills. You may be pressured to sign by the facility. She may beg you to sign. DO NOT SIGN. She could live for 20 or more years, and you don't want to get into that can of worms. And you don't even want to consider outfitting the mother-in-law suite for her disabilities (if it's yours, and if she expects you to provide hands-on care for her for the rest of her life). You'd be better off for her to go to assisted living and you rent out the mother-in-law suite (if it's yours) for extra income.
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You state that she can make her own decisions.

That being so, she is responsible for herself. Nobody else is. If she's physically unable to sign a document, the facility can record that and have her consent (to whatever it's about) witnessed by a third party.

Excuse my curiosity, but why is a 64 year old of sound mind unable to be left alone and at risk of falls? - and having recurrent utis, come to that.
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katmom Oct 2022
She is 64 but really like 84. She's been like this for years, a mess. I learned if you don't take care of yourself or keep moving, you degenerate quickly!
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The lawyer that represents my LO told us to use the phrase “solely based on her (LO’s) ability to pay”, and her residence accepted that statement on her legal/financial paper work.
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Katmom, hooey she can't get off the toilet or out of her riser recliner by herself. What she needs is an occupational therapist and whatever equipment, adaptations and exercises that professional might recommend.

I assume it's just the one arm, yes?
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katmom Oct 2022
She is now at a private home, paying cash with a live in rehabilitation therapist.

She is very mad my brother and I said no to any type of our signature(s).
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My mother was 88 & broke her elbow. She managed to get off the toilet and her recliner with her arm in a sling. Also a fall risk..she fell being careless & not locking her
rollator walker brakes. It would roll away from her and she'd fall. I hated that thing.
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I know people vary a lot. But the leg & glute muscles are the drivers that stand a person up. Arms assist balance (but do get used more as leg/glutes weaken with age).

Curious, how was MIL's ability getting in/out chairs before the fall?

🤔 Is general fitness an issue?
Or is any *won't* mixed in?

These are thoughts towards future planning..

Anyway, back to the question.

You said MIL is capable - so MIL signs.

If MIL's dominant arm is broken, she can sign the best she can with her functioning arm. A Doctor can be asked write a letter to confirm this status (as backup to why her signature is wonky) if needed.

I have had that pressure to sign as NOK. I asked why me? They had assumed LO could not legally sign, as many new residents (even for respite) could not.
The facility still gently pushed as wanted to ensure the bill got paid... I said no.

No active POA = no sign.
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"She is very mad my brother and I said no to any type of our signature(s)."

🤔?

Mad to hold the pen & make a wonky signature? (If non-dom hand).

Or mad you won't PAY the bill?

Interesting.
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As others have said, DO NOT SIGN anything! Some of the "paperwork" for any facility (assistive living, skilled nursing, rehab facility, etc) can be very complex and one can easily be trapped (if one has signed) to be "financial responsible" and/or "responsible to take the person back" OR "otherwise be responsible" for arranging things if the your loved one (LO) is discharged for any reason. That is you upon signing such paperwork, may (depending on the how that paperwork is written) may be solely and personally responsible financially as well as for any "next steps" in your LO's care or discharge. If you do NOT know what you are signing AND signing up for, DO NOT SIGN such paperwork. Have an elder care attorney licensed in your state review first, or just refuse to sign! AND JUST DO NOT GO WITH what the facility "tells you the words or paperwork mean" you need an independent opinion, one with no financial interest in getting you to sign the paperwork.

And as others have said, if there is no legally executed durable POA (drafted properly according to your State laws and properly notarized) that is an original document you have; DO NOT SIGN ANYTHING as frankly you have no legal authority to sign. Same if you have no legally executed "Advanced Directive" document naming you as your LO's "medical agent." Again, this would be an original document (not a copy) and drafted according to what is required by your State laws.

If you LO is competent of mind (not your guess; but that NO court and/or physician has made such a decision) then the LO needs to make decisions and to sign themselves whatever paperwork needs signing.

Sounds like she is living in an "in-law suite" with you or your brother? Regardless, before she returns I would strongly advise getting the legal paperwork in order (durable power of attorney for medical and financial affairs, an Advanced Directive document, and a will for her, etc). AND then, also get all her all account information (banks, Social Security, health insurance, credit card, any retirement accounts, etc) AND set all up with on-line access now. You and your brother both need the user names and passwords; then when something happens the next time -- AND IT WILL -- her accounts are on-line, the proper paperwork is in place and either you or your brother can step in to handle her affairs even if that is just temporary.

That said, still DO NOT SIGN any facility papers as you personally but "acting as her POA" and never check the boxes that say "yes, I personally" will pay, will take her back or will handle arranging a safe discharge. Keep the onus on a facility to work out payment with her or Medicaid and for them being responsible -- no you -- for any safe discharge planning when she is discharged. Again, get a lawyer to review any paperwork BEFORE anyone signs anything!
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Your mother is of sound mind to make her own decisions, so please do not sign anything. It will get you in financial trouble. Can your mother talk with an eldercare attorney?
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No one can make you sign anything.
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TouchMatters Nov 2022
The point is though - would they let the mother in the facility without daughter signing the paperwork? This is the question.
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Get the legal papers in order….. top priority.

no, don’t sign , she must…
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No, and you need to take care of the lack of POA problem quick. Do no EVER sign for anyone else unless as POA in which case you sign their name and your own with addition of "as POA". If you sign things you are accepting responsibility. You should read thoroughly each form you sign. You can sign forms that pertain to YOU, for instance accepting being contact person as next of kin, and etc.
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It likely depends on the state/county, and considering federal laws.
I would image it depends solely on a medical evaluation / determination of her mental / brain abilities, i.e., dementia. If she can make / does make her own decisions, it seems to me that no one else should have to 'sign on the dotted line.' However ... with that said, the only 'next of kin' or person I've had to list on any forms (of importance) is 'in case of emergency."

If she cannot be 'left alone,' as you say, a medical diagnosis appears to be in order / of importance 'now' - have her medical provider evaluate her / cognitive abilities / decline.

She sounds depressed. Is she on any medication? for depression? should she be? Setting herself up to live in a recliner (I know . . . its my go to spot too) is not healthy for her, as you know. Getting her up and out (of the chair, of the house, involved / interested in activities - anything) is needed. And, likely the hardest thing to (encourage her to) do. Still. The writing is on the wall - sit, no exercise, another fall risk . . . she'll end up in a rehab or nursing home ... which comes back full circle to your question here.

If I were you, I would talk to her about setting up a POA.
Does she have the cognition to do this?
This is something that needs to be done in advance of when a POA is needed.
If she says NO, then there is little you can do (w/o medical diagnosis of her incapacitation).

Then ... You must let it go and honor her (self-care of lack thereof) decisions.
And letting go is painful / frustrating ... although essential to your own quality of life / mental, emotional, psychological well being.

Gena Galenski
Touch Matters
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Ask the Adult Protective Services to evaluate her for placement. Show them why she can't live alone. Take pictures, interview her on your phone and video wherever she has physical limitations. If she falls again, call 911 and have her transported and let their social worker figure out the best plan. Unfortunately not all facilities accept Medicaid.
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64 years old is relatively young to be unable to live alone because of a fall and broken arm. That can happen to anyone......so why can't she get herself off of the toilet and out of the chair with 2 legs and 1 good arm?

It sounds like she just needs some physical and occupational therapy to learn how to use her body to move and navigate her surroundings.

If she has the money, I'd also hire a personal trainer to help her work out at least once a week.

The last thing she needs is to be left sitting or lying. But I have to ask, is she unmotivated to do anything physical? Some people just refuse to put forth the effort to their own detriment.
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katmom: Imho, you should never sign for anything unless you possess power of attorney.
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Next of kin can not be forced to assume POA. Legally, next of kin will be asked to make decisions if no POA has been legally declared (legal documents). If nobody accepts responsibility, then hospitals and others will turn to legal means and ask the courts to appoint a guardian ad litem to make decisions.
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