Follow
Share

Cousin in nursing home anxiously watching mail for a check for unclaimed property from the state (PA). We knew from state website it was mailed but never came to her. We asked staff about it, they said it was not in the building. Three weeks after it was mailed i called the Unclaimed Property office to report it was not received. Today, the bill comes from the nursing home and the value of check is listed as a "credit" (payment) toward her bill! I have emailed and asked how did this check (made out to the resident) get deposited without her actually receiving it! Thought I would ask here if it is normal for nursing homes to go thru patient mail and take envelopes obviously containing checks? (she was on Medicaid then we sold the house and went to private pay, check taken 6 weeks after house sale) Can't wait to hear the administration's reply....

This question has been closed for answers. Ask a New Question.
Is there a guardian or a POA? There are times they are given checks that come in the mail as a safety procedure. And then those could be signed over as payment for that month. IF the person WAS on medicaid there may be the mistaken belief that they still are and there may be some safeguarding that the person not get a check that will ruin ability to receive medicaid. I honestly don't have a clue, but will be so interested to see what they say, as that check would have had to be signed by SOMEONE and the facility doesn't have the power to do that that I can imagine.DO update us when you find out.
Helpful Answer (4)
Report
anonymous891745 Aug 2019
Thanks for all the responses. AlvaDeer, and everyone. I am her POA. She is good shape mentally and I consult with her on everything. Her failing health (cant walk, kidney failure) put her in nursing home. She was on Medicaid then we sold the house and now are private pay. No one from the facility is calling/emailing me back. Billing is outsourced and the outsource company informed me of who processed the payment and it is the same woman my cousin went to and asked about her mail and the check. She told her it was not there....(because it had already been taken and paid toward her bill but they let her think it was not delivered.) I pay the invoice every month. nothing was overdue. I am trying to find out how the back of the check was endorsed and left a message with the state unclaimed property dept ---we may never see the back of the check but I am going to try. thank you all and if I get an answer I will post.
(7)
Report
See 1 more reply
I would say that according to federal law, opening someone else’s mail is a felony offense and punishable by jail time. I don’t think it matters who opens it or whose mail it is. And, taking a check and signing it is fraud, also illegal. I can’t imagine anyone, even a POA giving permission to do either of these. Handling financial affairs is the POA’s responsibility.
Helpful Answer (8)
Report

Agree with both posters.    It's illegal to open someone else's mail.   And I'm sure it's illegal to cash a check made out to someone else unless the account is held jointly or a POA or DPOA is in place authorizing that entity to cash checks.   

I'm really find this to be quite an arrogant act.
Helpful Answer (9)
Report

I don’t know how they took the check, but when my mom was placed in the nursing home this past January we had to grant/deny permission in writing for them to help her with any mail. We told them she could it open it herself, but she doesn’t get anything mailed to her.
Helpful Answer (4)
Report

When my Mom entered her LTC I was asked to sign something saying it was OK for the office to receive her mail. I agreed because it could be Medicaid and they needed that info. I had all her other mail, even cards, directed to my house. I was close enough to take the cards to her. Then all the home received was Medicaid info addressed to Mom at the home.

Saying that, I would like to know how the NH was able to cash her check without Moms signature. I would ask the state if it was possible to get the back and front of the check. That you as POA did not endorse the check and Mom didn't either as far as she remembers. If found that the signature is fraudulent, then I would take it to the Administrator.

If you signed nothing saying the NH is allowed to open mail, then they were wrong in doing so unless a written policy. Your Mom is a resident not a prisoner. When you get all the info together, take it to the Post Master at the PO that deliveries that facilities mail.

Come back and tell us what happens.
Helpful Answer (5)
Report
anonymous891745 Aug 2019
Thanks JoAnn. Will post when i find out more. I asked the Unclaimed property dept if there is a way to see the back of the check but she has to go and find out, it has not come up before. No return calls or emails from the NH. I wrote to both the "money" person and the Administrator. I am seeing my cousin this weekend and will ask her if she signed off on the mail at any point. She is good mentally and i think she would find it weird. I know as POA i never authorized them to open anything! My cousin asked everyone and looked for this check for nearly two weeks and the "money" lady knew she took it because the outsourced billing center told me the check was processed thru her! Unnecessary stress!
(4)
Report
See 1 more reply
I have some familiarity with federal laws regarding long-term care facilities. Here is an excerpt from a chapter about elder law published by a legal publisher in my state: "A resident has the right to have private, unrestricted communications with his or her family, physician, advanced practice nurse prescriber, attorney, and any other person, unless medically contraindicated as documented by the resident’s physician or advanced practice nurse prescriber in the resident’s medical records, except that communications with public officials or the resident’s attorney cannot be restricted under any circumstances. This right includes, but is not limited to, the right to receive, send, and mail sealed, unopened correspondence;..."
Helpful Answer (7)
Report
anonymous891745 Aug 2019
Yes, the patient bill of rights! I just printed it out! Thanks!
(2)
Report
Did your cousin or your cousin's legal representative at any time authorise the NH to open your cousin's mail? If not...

"It's a federal offense to open mail that doesn't belong to you. If you do it intentionally, you could be looking at a $250,000 fine and up to five years in a federal prison."
Helpful Answer (5)
Report
anonymous891745 Aug 2019
as POA I never authorized anyone to open her mail. Tomorrow I will see my cousin and make sure she did not....she is good mentally though and unless they tricked her somehow, she would want as much privacy as possible. I have sent her packages and even envelopes with checks for the hair salon and they all reached her just fine.  This envelope would clearly have been a State type check with Dept of Revenue or Treasury or Unclaimed property on the envelope. Its very upsetting....but my cousin likes it there and I am afraid to make too much of a fuss for fear they could force her out?.
(3)
Report
See 2 more replies
Are you absolutely sure what you are seeing on the invoice is a deduction and not a credit?
Helpful Answer (2)
Report
anonymous891745 Aug 2019
oh Yes, i called the billing company. We owe $570 less than the bill should be because the unclaimed property check was posted to her bill. The billing person said she thought it was "odd" because the check was addressed to my cousin, not to the facility...but she did not scan The BACK of the check. I want to see how it was endorsed. Did they sign her name? Is it her signature and she signed as instructed by someone? She says she never received any mail, no check, no anything...maybe tomorrow's visit will shed some light, i hope so. The money would be spent down on her care and in about 17 months the house funds will run out. It is the idea that they just take mail addressed to patients and then decide how the check is to be used. I mail her hair salon checks and those reach her but they are already made out to the salon in the facility. just generally unsettling. thanks for reaching out, everyone here is wonderful.
(5)
Report
See 1 more reply
Paula039, you say your cousin is "good mentally". Can you not ask her if she endorsed the check?
Did you ask the facility about the credit to her monthly bill? What did they say?
Helpful Answer (2)
Report
anonymous891745 Sep 2019
Meeting with her today. ....She has no personal phone and did not want to write about this on email. She asked me to come there.
The outsourced billing co confirmed the employee who sent the check on to them and confirmed it was made out to the patient...but she had no scan of the back of check. I contacted the state to see if I can get it from them.
Phone calls and emails to facility are unanswered.
Hope to get exact details from my cousin today and what she has found out. She is like an 80 yr old Harriet t h e Spy knowing all the goings on there.
(4)
Report
See 2 more replies
I agree this sounds wrong - demand to see the endorsement. Seems facility is interfering with the US Mail if they are opening residents' mail without their authorization.
Helpful Answer (6)
Report

Paula, the bank in which the account is held should have a copy of the back of the check.   I remember years ago before banks stopped returning cancelled checks that the monthly checking statement including copies of the back, as endorsed.   You probably have to pay a fee to get it, but a branch bank should be able to pull it up quickly and print out a copy for you.   

W\o rereading the earlier posts, I don't recall if you have any authority or are a co-signer on the account, so that could be an issue.    If it is, ask what they would require from your cousin, a letter or affidavit perhaps, to allow you to order a copy of the check and get that.   Your cousin could also call in authority, but if she's not well known by the bank, that might not be accepted.  She could send a letter, witnessed by someone other than you.

Good luck.
Helpful Answer (4)
Report
anonymous891745 Sep 2019
the check bypassed my cousin's account. As I understand it from the billing co. for the nursing home, it went to the "money lady" at the NH to the outsourced billing dept and into the NH's account at their bank. the check originated from the PA Dept of Revenue.  I have no idea what bank the nursing home uses...I contacted the state to ask if they can access the back of the check. Will contact the billing co again too per Takincare's  reply (thanks!)  Have not heard back with the holiday weekend.  My concern  is the check was addressed to my cousin, she did not receive it and the facility used the check. Today I am meeting with my cousin to confirm the chain of events. The lady who processed her check was the same one who for two weeks "helped" her look for it, telling her it was lost or misaddressed. Something is not right!  thanks to all.
(3)
Report
From what I learned from experience in a certain situation some time ago where the mail, addressed to me personally, was not given to me because it contained medication - they wanted the nurses to open the package - I went to the postmaster. I found out it is a FEDERAL VIOLATION to withhold and open someone else's name. I threatened to go ahead and file the complaint and the person who would not release the mail to ME and the facility would be heavily fined. I never had a problem after that. If this woman is getting mail, the caretaker or family must IMMEIATELY PUT A STOP TO THE WOMAN. The facility can receive a horrible punishment if they continue to open and steal her mail. Get this stopped and corrected at once.
Helpful Answer (5)
Report
GraceNBCC Sep 2019
I know this happens a lot with medications. I used to work for Postal Service so Thank You for pointing out it is a Felony!

Taking the money is Fraud and Financial Fraud of an Elderly Person...they can lose their licence!

There is a common misbelief that you can have No Money if you are on Medicaid. Wrong!
You did not say how much $ was involved, but the obligation is to report it to Medicaid. It is likely that her total assets are now below the $2,000 plus car, buria contract and homeowner exemption. Any money spent on her needs, OTC meds & supplements, hearing aid batteries, transpotation to appointments, meals when out for medical care are allowable expended.

If she was at the max. of the $2K limit, Medicaid could require a spend down, but facility is committing a crime by taking that money without her full, clear and informed knowledge.

I would write asking for a refund of the credit...an overpayment...and CC State Representative, Medicaid Ombudsman, State NH Licensing Bureau, States Attorney. Send it certified, return receipt requested to NH.
(2)
Report
See 1 more reply
I hope you get some satisfactory answers, Paula.

Let's say, just for illustrative purposes, that something like this happened:

The mail arrived at the NH.
Your cousin's letters were duly delivered to her in her room.
She gave the repayment letter and check to a worker, saying she wasn't sure if this was the letter she was expecting or how how to deal with it.
The worker didn't know either, and toddled off with it to the office, and handed it to an administrator.
The administrator, later that morning, popped to your cousin's room and asked her to endorse the check - just handing her the check, reversed, and a pen, and saying "sign here please." Your cousin obligingly did so and asked no questions.
The check was paid in.
Your cousin did not connect any of the above with the letter she was expecting.
Everybody over the next three weeks was referring to this letter and understanding the words 'unclaimed property check' in different ways.

So, let's suppose it's something as innocent as the above, nobody actually being a weasel. It's STILL not okay. Because ANY such interactions or transactions should have been documented in detail in your cousin's notes. They can use this as an opportunity for teaching and learning.
Helpful Answer (9)
Report

Paula039, just read that check was addressed to your cousin! Call Federal Prosecutor and US Postal Fraud Division and file a criminal complaint. Have the information/ evidence you have gathered. Approximate time and dates of phone calls ( use phone log on phone).

They will be eager to settle out of court with your cousin, but there will still be a paper trail if they try this with anyone else.
Helpful Answer (5)
Report

UPDATE!  I cannot figure out how to add to the question or edit it. Here is what I found out from my cousin in our visit today.
1. She never saw the check.  No mail received.
2. She signed papers on admission(Jan) and a paper to move her social security to the facility in house bank back in April, She has signed nothing since.
3. The money lady she asked about the expected Unclaimed Property Check told her "there is nothing in the mailroom". Of course there wasn't, by the time she asked, the check had already been taken and put against her invoice. We just didn't know til the amount, $570 was clearly posted as a payment on her bill rec/d 8/29.  The outsourced billing co confirmed this woman sends in the checks to them.
4. Cousin will ask the social worker exactly what papers she has signed and if she signed a form permitting them to open her mail, she will rescind it. She said "I don't want anyone opening my mail and I would not have authorized it," providing they were clear what she was signing.
My job is to see the BACK of that check and how it was endorsed.  I will call the billing co again. they said the front of the check was payable to the patient and they didn't have a scan of the back. They can try again.  And I will call the nice contact I made at the Unclaimed Property Office, a claims examiner, who was concerned when I related what I knew last week. A state check should make its way in canceled form back to the state, right?
Thank you all so much. Feel like you all "have my back". My cousin was willing to keep asking questions there but I told her I will work to get a copy of the endorsement and go from there. She doesn't need the upset. Now off to find the Advil, have given myself a wicked headache!
Helpful Answer (5)
Report
AlvaDeer Sep 2019
What I really want to know is what the billing company at your cousin's facility said. I do know that checks do not always have to be endorsed at least at the bank, as I often put in a check at the bank and before I can even endorse they grab it, put it through the machine into my account and there it is. Always seems so odd to me. Thanks for the update. It IS hard on the forum to update,but you are doing it the only way I know how to.I often go back to questions to check when something is really interesting, and this one sure is. I mean I am glad they at least used it for HER and her bills,but it does seem so odd. Thanks again for the update.
(3)
Report
See 2 more replies
I would report this to the US postal inspectors and let them take action.
Helpful Answer (3)
Report
AlvaDeer Sep 2019
This is what I so wonder. What does the facility say?
(1)
Report
I would look at the facility's regulations for dealing with mail. Only the person with financial power of attorney can legally endorse checks or deal with financial matters. It might be better to have her mail sent to person who has power of attorney for finances. This person can take care of financials and "send" the other mail to your loved one.
Helpful Answer (6)
Report
anonymous891745 Sep 2019
hi Taarna, that's me. The State office of Unclaimed Property would not send the check anywhere but her physical address. It was unclaimed life insurance from her mom from 1998.
(0)
Report
Holy Cow! The audacity!
Helpful Answer (3)
Report

Do a notary affidavit saying you did not get the check and request to reissue one. But this time ask them to to do a direct deposit. Keep in mind anything he makes goes towards his care in nursing home.
Helpful Answer (2)
Report
AlvaDeer Sep 2019
I think that might be fraud. She did, in a sense get this check. It was noted and her monthly rental was decreased by the said amount. This is one I wouldn't be trying.
(2)
Report
See 1 more reply
There is a possibility that the check was not endorsed in any way. Banks only check for endorsement for checks over certain amounts(per bank policy). When I have a check to deposit, I run it through the ATM with no personal endorsement.
Helpful Answer (1)
Report
AlvaDeer Sep 2019
Yes, garylee. That's what I was trying to say. When I deposit them they just kind of run them through a machine into my account. It is easy to deposit, and a bit more difficult to withdraw, hee hee.
(1)
Report
See 1 more reply
If the back of the check says anything, it may just say, "For deposit only.". Deposits can be accepted that way. Withdrawals require a signature and ID, but deposits can be made without a personal signature.
Depending on the status of your cousin's Medicaid eligibility, the money might ultimately go to the NH anyway, but the NH's taking the money directly seems very wrong!
Helpful Answer (1)
Report
anonymous891745 Sep 2019
she is private pay now. I think it is nervy to take an envelope from her mail and not tell her. She gets cards from friends, packages from me but they "plucked" the State Revenue check and then told her it was not there. Even told ME I must have provided the state the wrong address. (it had to go to her physical addy by state regulation)
(2)
Report
They can if the mail comes to the nursing home / A/L general mail box they can open it. If it goes to an individuals personal mail box then the staff cannot open it.
Helpful Answer (1)
Report
anonymous891745 Sep 2019
they have a central mailroom, not lockboxes for each person. Other mail, (cards, packages from me) she gets., They hand picked this one. And then told us it was not there.
(2)
Report
If you have Power of Attorney for her financial matters, try to get all mail sent to your address. You'll have to put through change of address notices for every place that sends her mail.
Helpful Answer (1)
Report
anonymous891745 Sep 2019
We got a PO Box for her mail...but Unclaimed Property would only send to her physical address.
(0)
Report
depends on the contract with the nursing home - there are riders where, for sheer convenience, the facility is authorized by the family to review mail content (this can be a good thing with all the scams that are out there), and given limited POA so that pension payments, annuities, etc. may be routed to an account used for the patient's expenses without having to call on a family member to endorse each and every time.
Did anyone give the facility advance notice that the payment was coming in and to hold it?
Helpful Answer (2)
Report
anonymous891745 Sep 2019
No we did not tell them in advance. My cousin does not think she signed any mail rights over to the facility but she will ask tomorrow. Most of her "business mail" goes to a PO Box I set up for her, medicare supplemental, final house details, etc. The state would not mail an Unclaimed Property check anywhere else but her Physical Address.  the facility already got her Social Security check signed over to their "in house" bank. We are private pay until the house sale money runs out.
(0)
Report
See 4 more replies
Ask a lawyer INSTANTLY!!! I think this is FRAUD. I would also report them to the proper authorities. How dare them? Unless...something to this effect was signed by your cousin? I would investigate this very closely before it happens again. Best of luck!
Helpful Answer (0)
Report
AlvaDeer Sep 2019
But were it fraud they would not have credited her account, Adela. I think it is more a mixup. But I sure am following THIS one. It involves the whole US postal service thing. It would be a huge infraction, risk, for an extended care facility to do something like this. Could lose them their license. So difficult for me to think they would risk it for a mere 600.00. Not saying that isn't a lot of money, but, boy compared to the monthly bills of these places it is nothing.
(4)
Report
See 1 more reply
Lawyer up.
Helpful Answer (1)
Report

No, the facility does not or should not open patients' mail! That is an infringement on privacy! Go to the Ombudsman. Or better yet - hire an elder law attorney.
Helpful Answer (1)
Report
AlvaDeer Sep 2019
Hiring a lawyer may be satisfying but it would cost easily 5 times what that check was worth.
(2)
Report
No, That woul dbe Illegal, tell them you shall Invlve a Lawyer and to Up the Truth and/or Speak to the Social Worker at the Facility Here, dear.
Helpful Answer (0)
Report

This is WRONG!! First of all a nursing home can only open a resident's mail if that resident has given them written permission to do so. Even if the resident has given permission for the home to open their mail a nursing home can NOT take a check and automatically put it towards payment for an outstanding bill!! The home must asked the resident's permission to use that money for that purpose. That is what they must do according to Federal Law.

If the home put the money towards a "credit" as they stated I would go to them and tell them you want that money transferred to the resident personal account immediately, if they refuse to do so I would call the Ombudsman for assistant or the State and report them for financial exploitation of your loved one.
Helpful Answer (1)
Report
AlvaDeer Sep 2019
I would not personally go to that length if this money was credited to the aunt, which it WAS. Unless you are ready to physically move. I am assuming here she is relatively happy with where she is living. I would not be messing with that given that these funds, however this happened (and I would want an answer) did come to the aunt. They were used to pay her bills. Her bill would have come out of her monies in some way, and it came out in this way. Not OK. But NOT fraud.
(3)
Report
See 1 more reply
I'd called the State Health Dept. and ask.  Or go in person.  I did that ( in person) about an issue I was having, and they contacted me the same day.  Mine was pretty serious and I was instructed to do so by Medicare.  Medicaid is also government funding, but it usually overseen by the State Department.
Helpful Answer (0)
Report

This question has been closed for answers. Ask a New Question.
Ask a Question
Subscribe to
Our Newsletter