Father is saying things to undermine my relationship time and time again. How do you respond constructively?

Why would you "ramp up your support" of someone who is attempting to destroy your relationships?

When he speaks abusively to you, get up and walk out. Leave the tasks unfinished.

Either he will get the message or he won't. In any event, he is an adult and can arrange his own care if he drives the care he has away.

What your father says at 94 really doesn’t need to make the teeny tiniest bit of difference to you OR to your life OR to your relationships.

So that being the case, you are the boss, and you do not need to interact in any way with his “stuff”.

Make him “the old man on the bus” in your thinking. When he raves or rages, some passengers will laugh at him, a few may “shush” him, and most will ignore him. You can be whichever passenger you decide to be, including the one who hears what he says but isn’t impacted upon.

Your choice, in every way. You stopped being his vulnerable adolescent offspring decades ago. Don’t replay those tapes.

Don't take the threats about his granddaughter seriously. Grandparents have no legal rights to visitation.

Just shut him down by walking away or hanging up when he gets out of line. At some point you decide, the relationship will be over. It's your place to control this relationship and how much you choose to take.

I wouldn’t provide care for anyone with the personality of your father, as an adult I’m free to not subject myself to rude behavior. I hope you’ll only do caregiving from a distance and not let his toxic behavior invade your life and soul. If you do choose to remain involved, leave everytime without exception each time he’s rude. He may have the right to say what he wants, but you have the right not to listen to it

I am curious why you continue in the care of your father, who doesn't sound like a person worthy of this disruption in your life ongoing. I would leave his care to others, or to caregivers. It does sound as though this is a very broken brain, but there wasn't a relationship that was there before the breakage to get your through. Report your Dad as a senior at risk to APS and let them know you cannot provide him support due to his actions. Someone who says your husband was a cap in his house doesn't really have an intact brain. But if it IS intact, then that is good. Let him take care of himself, and place himself when he can no longer care for himself. Work on yourself, get yourself help in dealing with this, seek counseling, be certain that the legacy of his "love" isn't passed to another generation.

I should ramp up that support at arm's length, if I were you.

Your father does have the right to say what he likes. You equally have the right not to have to listen to it. And although it is very natural that you would like to do the right thing and provide support proportionate to his needs, which of course will only increase, there is no law that says you have to do this in person.

What kind of support does he mainly need?

As for the formal complaint... fine. Go ahead.* I can't see anyone awarding him custody, or indeed increased visitation rights; and besides, how old is the granddaughter? - I imagine if she's old enough she will have her own views about this.

* I shouldn't think he'd know how.

I am assuming here that you are from the UK. Because my MIL was English, I am familiar with some of the English sayings but this one baffles me "as he once was a cap inside his house".

You have in ur profile that Dad has a Dementia. If so, then all his facilities are not there. Plus at 94 there has to be some decline. I would just ignore him. Your in your 60s, your children 30/40s? Chalk it up to an just an old man just talking. I doubt if any court would give him the right to see his grandchildren more than he does.

I would do what I felt I needed to and then leave. You are an adult and don't need to put up with anything u don't want to.

I hate to say it but many of our experiences include disarming emotional terrorists.
Your Dad will blame it on you if your relationship sours. Your Dad does not care about that.
You must use your time constructively.
Your relationship with your Dad is not constructive.
Only you can change it.

I'm not speaking to my MIL, after 45 years of trying, really trying to have a decent relationship with her.

If I had dollar for every time I tried a 'new ' tactic' to get her to 'come around'--well, I could buy a car. It was ALWAYS on me to be the bigger, better person. Accept the mean little 'asides' and the nasty comments and literal hate. (When someone tells you they hate you, at some point, you BELIEVE them).

MIL is 90. She's frail, angry and terrified of everything. I'm not a monster, and I do feel very sorry for the life she's carved out for herself.

At this point, in a book, the two 'combatants' would have some 'epiphany' and suddenly all the nastiness and anger of the past is dissolved and going forth, all is peaches and cream.

In reality, our relationship got worse and worse and worse. Dh refused to stand up for me, now he is all alone in 'doing' for her, and boy, do I hear about it.

AND I DO NOT CARE.

My guess is that you are feeling some level of guilt about not having a good relationship with dad and you want that before he dies. Absolutely normal and admirable if there's a chance you can make that happen.

BUT--I bet you can't. And I bet he doesn't care. Take a deep breath, do for him what you want, or what he'll allow if you still want to be in his life--and if you don't....walk away. It's been a year since I saw or spoke to my MIL. And I have felt very relieved. Dh is struggling mightily with having no buffer to accompany him to her house. He was happy to throw me under the bus and let me take all the abuse while he puttered around and fixed stuff for her--but w/o me there, it's just him and now he gets it all.

His threat of forcing visits with the grands is laughable, as they are probably old enough to decide on their own if they want a relationship with him. That's a pretty hollow threat.

Your father has every right to say whatever he likes to you, and to make veiled threats about what formal complaints he intends to lodge as well. And you have every right to withdraw your time & effort on behalf of the support you give him, by the same token.

We get what we give in this life.

He gives you nothing but a headache, back off and give him way less of your time and attention. If he'd like more of it, well then, it will behoove him to act more civilized toward you in the future, along the lines of 'you catch more flies with honey than with vinegar.' Even demented elders catch wind of that after awhile.

Remember: your father is not the only one here who's feelings and care matter. YOU matter too. Don't lose sight of that on your quest to save dad.

Seriously, just stop visiting.

I love the advice others have given. If you absolutely ( no other way out) have to deal with him, start agreeing with him. Tell him he's right about everything he says. It might take the wind out of his sails.

At 94, he is not going to change.
Do not allow your energy to be drained because of who he is and how he apparently has believed / felt for years, if not over MANY decades.
All you can really do is change how you react.
If it were me, I would ignore his comments by:
(1) say it sounds like you do not want me to visit; I'll leave soon (and see what he says). If you start to leave early, he may stop talking like this, or he may not.
(2) for your mental and emotional health, leave when he starts in. Don't be his doormat for abuse.
(3) You need to develop the part of you that is wounded by him. I would imagine this may be a life-long way of relating. You develop this part by giving yourself the support, love, unconditional love that he is unable to give you.
(4) Ask yourself why you continue to 'do' for him when his way of talking to you hurts you. I know these relatioships are not clear as black and white. They are shades of greys, with love, guilt, regrets, pain, wounding, FEARS, all rolled into the 'now' - The more you learn to respect and love yourself, the less how he speaks to you will adversely affect you. You will learn that his feelings - his anger and resentments are his and about him. At his age, he likely has nothing left. It sounds like he was 'always' unable to give of himself, to express affection. This shows how blocked / wounded HE is and was. I would feel compassion for him - as you are able. This means understanding him and setting BOUNDARIES for yourself. Here's a hug. Gena.

"...he has always been distant, controlling and manipulative, and it's now getting to the point where is it beyond funny."

It probably never was funny, but perhaps you could laugh it off. IF you really feel the need to continue helping and supporting him, there are some choices:

1) Cut him off mid-sentence when he starts. Say you will leave if he continues. Then follow through if you have to, even if your "tasks" aren't completed.
2) Continue to laugh at him. Although words are cruel, you can try to let it fall to the ground between you and just laugh out loud at him.
3) If he doesn't take the hint at #1, cut back on visits.

For #2, sometimes their "power" is in the reactions they get. If you do react, he gets his reward.

My mother was sometimes "difficult" before dementia and if she ticked me off enough, I would leave. She often criticized all of our spouses - no one was ever "good enough." She even continued to blast a former SIL years after they split and it continued even after she passed away. The last time she said it I decided the next time I would set her straight. Dementia took care of the issue for me.

I used to tell people my MAX was 4 hours, with others around. One time it was 10 MINUTES! After dementia she wasn't as bad, but typically the greetings I got when I visited her in MC was "Oh, what're you doing here?" and "Where'd you come from?" I would say Pluto, Venus, Jupiter for where I came from and would ask her if she wanted me to leave. That was the end of it every time, we'd move on to something else.

Even if you set the boundaries to what is acceptable, he may never change. If nothing else works and he continues and you choose to remain as care-giver, I'd recommend ear plugs or a headset playing tunes, loud enough to drown him out. Then just smile and go about your business. You know the truth and don't have to accept anything he says, or listen to it. Your choice is to stay and work around it or let him find someone else to provide for his needs.

I'm sorry as I read this I had to giggle. Because:
This sounds like my father. Horrible how they can make us feel like a confused and helpless child, all over again. They still use the same old techniques they used on us when we were at their mercy as children.

I am taking care of both my parents.
My father yesterday, (while I thought we were finally, for once, having a normal adult conversation during breakfast, about: doing our taxes), said to me in a mocking tone, "you do taxes? laugh, laugh, you don't work!
For the record, I work.
But the best part was, how my mother had my back, she replied: "Yes she works, she works for her husband". Just lovely :(

If it's true we choose our parents, then wtf was I thinking????
I grew up in a home with a sexist and absent father and a mother who went along with it, and they made a great team.

I have never had a good relationship with my father, mostly because he is sexist, manipulative, dominating, uneducated etc. He was never involved in our lives, but was always used by my mother as a threat: Wait until your father gets home!

I have the hardest time making him understand anything, when I have to approach him with anything, even something as simple as: did you enjoy your meal? I cringe.

Your father sounds like a bully, just like my father, making threats.
My father has threatened to call the police on me, while under my care, in my home, because I would not put up with his bs, trying to control and dominate me. When he threatened me I laughed and told him that I would have him cuffed and taken out of MY HOME. He no longer uses that card.

He has made it clear what he thinks of women and has always tried to get my husband on his team against me. Nonsense.

I'm sorry you had him as your first male role model. I am sad for myself that this is what I grew up with. He made a negative impression on me that has affected many choices I have made in my life.

For me what has worked, is basically not putting up with the bullying.
In my case they are stuck, they have nowhere else to go, and they know it.
They could go into a care facility, but they know that they would not like being there and that no one will take better care of them, than me.

As for him saying any nasty thing he wants to say to you, NO HE CAN'T, no one should think they can say whatever they want without thought or concern for how the receiver feels. Tell him to stop being so nasty. Tell him he is not in control, you are. Tell him he is in your home due to your kindness. Tell him you are not his child anymore but a grown up woman and that he needs to treat you with respect from now on. And that his threats will only get him out of your house and into a strangers care.

If he is in a care facility, I suggest less visits. Distance yourself, he is toxic.
What I always hold on to, is:
They lived their lives the way they wanted, this now is your life, you choose how
you want to live it.

How do you respond constructively: sorry I have not had any success with that, whether it's dementia, or it's because he does not like it coming from his daughter (a sub servant female)… I have tried the "let's be reasonable adults and talk calmly", never worked. He does not come from a place of reason :)

He is right. You can't control what he says or his opinions about anything or anybody. You can control how you deal with his problem behavior.

1 - I suggest reading any of the "boundary" books by Townsend and Cloud. The have successfully dealt with identifying problem behaviors and creating options for dealing with those behaviors.

2 - You might also find it helpful to have a friend, family member or therapist to be able to vent your frustration to.

3 - Make sure that you have others who can help in his care. You need "time off" to take care of yourself, your spouse, and refresh your "batteries" doing things you enjoy with people you value.

Your responsibility to your father is to be sure he is taken care of and not out on the street or in poverty. Beyond that, you should have as little contact with him as possible. Stop being his victim. He has no right to see you or his granddaughter because of his behavior. He will, no doubt, try to poison her mind against you. Do not allow her to see him! As much as possible, be done with this man.

I assume he has always been this way and probably had the last word with your mother as well. It's a lifetime of being a control freak - the very thing he accuses your husband of. Isn't is funny how people see bad things in others, yet don't see the very same thing in themselves? Not ha-ha funny.

If his mind is clear and he understands your conversations, try the 'hurting me' approach with him. He says his mean thing and instead of replying to that particular thing - ask why would you say that and hurt me while I am here trying to help you. Says something about husband's bad character? - Your reply is he has always treated me kinder than you are right now. Always repeat - why do you say things to break my heart, to hurt me, etc when I am the person here trying to help you.

As for he can say whatever he wants to - reply, that's true. You have the right to say mean, hurtful things every time you open your mouth, but one day you will say too much and you will hurt me more than I can take. If you would like to continue living here, as you do with my help, maybe you should not say all of the things you 'think' you have the right to say. No one has the right to hurt my feelings/my heart all the time.

Don't ever engage in the actual comment he makes about you, hubby, etc - respond with how his words are hurting you. Does he want to hurt you. We can find someone else to do these things for you if you do not want my help. As for your child - remind him that she doesn't like to hear bad things about her dad either. Saying mean things about others will make her stay away.

He has the right to say what he wants, and you have the right not to hear. Start talking or singing (loudly!) to yourself, put in earbuds and play music, or, just Walk Away. If you do not give him the response he is looking for - your reaction to his words - he will eventually quit.

Every time you respond to him in any fashion, he wins. He got you to react to him. He is enjoying the reactions from you, it's a game for him, and a game is no fun if no one else is playing.

Good luck!

Imho, although this may or may not be your father's "characteristic," for lack of a better word, I have witnessed many an elder state something akin to, "I am old; I can say whatever I like." I disagree with that and in the case of my late mother, who stated same, told her - 'No, you cannot state such things mother as they are very hurtful."

I think the problem is partly the meaning of "I can" in terms of possibility vs. "I can" in terms of "I may" Obviously he is able to say disrespecful things, but there are consequences. as a result Does he want to deal with the practical consequences of his behavior? Sometimes it would seem that the term "I can" carries a notion that "I may do this and there should be no consequences." Quasi legal thinking??
Anyway actions do have consequences.

"..he once was a cap inside his house."--Sorry, but I'm curious as to what this means, as I'm unfamiliar with this usage of the word "cap".

I am so sorry that your dad is causing you so much grief.

It appears that you are attempting to do your very best while facing this difficult situation.

It seems as if your dad is trying to sabotage your every move.

The way you have described him, he comes off as a truly miserable man.

Misery loves company but turn down any invitations.

Don’t take any bait that he throws your way. It’s poison. He’s toxic.

That goes for your daughter as well. Keep her out of harm’s way. Ignore his idle threats. He can’t claim your daughter.

Your daughter is right where she belongs, with a mother who will love and protect her. Don’t allow him to intimidate you by threatening you with his nonsense.

His behavior is enough to work on your last nerve.

Step away for a bit. Catch your breath. Regroup. See this man for who he really is.

Now, pat yourself on the back for turning out right in spite of a negative relationship and breaking a cycle of emotional abuse because you are raising your daughter differently than he raised you.

Hold your head high and walk away.

Respect is earned. He hasn’t earned your respect. His behavior has caused you to lose all respect for him, am I right?

He may be hurting. I have no doubt that this man isn’t happy or at peace.

You have experienced your share of discomfort too. That counts for something. It counts just as much as his pain and don’t ever lose sight of that, just in case you have a weak moment and feel sorry for him.

I wish all the peace in the world for you as you move forward during this challenging situation.

Take care.

What does your mother say about his shenanigans?. If she doesnt try to tell him to shut up being rude, then i would ignore (look up grey rock) and apply to this situation...do they live in your house?.....if so, he can be invited to leave as well.....you should learn to stand up for yourself as well....blessings to you. Hugs💓💓💓💓

Why are you trying to caregive for someone you don't have a good relationship with?

Leave him to his fate, it's not your resposibility.

Didactica, the obligation goes from parent to minor child snd is in my mind not reciprocal. We repay our parents by beciming independent and passing nurturance to the NEXT generation.

Parents ought not provoke their children the way your father is doing.

Your parents CHOSE to be parents. If they didn't plan on having you, they still made the choice to raise you. They signed up for the job. You didn't ask to be here.

Would you go to your employer and say "You owe me a bonus because I chose to work here"? Of course not. Saying "I owe them for raising me" is the same idea.

It sounds like your family was dysfunctional and your mom was the one who kept the peace. Your mom may have tolerated his bad behavior, but you shouldn't have to be his verbal punching bag too. Your mom is no longer here to take it, so he's taking it out on you now.

Me, I wouldn't be around any family member who trash-talked my husband. No way. Not acceptable and I will stand up for him and other people I love. But especially my husband. I won't have it and it's unfortunate you keep coming back for more. Isn't your husband worth defending? Aren't YOU worth defending?

He isn't 'undermining' a relationship because there isn't one to begin with. What you two have is an abuse cycle, not a relationship. It's interesting how he says your husband dominates you, when he does the same thing! Leaving your parents' religion and marrying overtook your father's role as the dominator. It’s not that he hates your husband; he hates that he isn’t in charge of you.

Who would he make a formal complaint to about not seeing his granddaughter (I assume she's your daughter)? No one! He's using your daughter as a pawn, "You'll be in trouble if I can't see her". Does your daughter see/hear how your father treats you? Do you really want her to see you being verbally abused and you tolerating it out of guilt? Listening to her grandfather trash-talk her father? Because that has lasting effects on kids/teens. It hurts them to see their parents be hurt.