Father lured and now stuck for 30k and growing in a Jamaican lotto scam. Will I be able to get guardianship?

Not without a fight. You don't have to be demented to be conned by these wretched, blasted, pond-life, scam-artist ratbags.

Have you talked to your father about what's happened? What does he believe is the truth of it?

I always think of my aunt and my mother when this happens. Both graduates, both living well independently, my mother was online and got a polite email from a young nursing student in [country, pick your own Usual Suspect] who needed money to complete her qualification and would be grateful for any donations. And blow me if my mother didn't print this email off, take it round to my aunt (aunt being a doctor, mother thought she'd approve of the young lady's ambition), and between the two of them they were about to chip in fifty pounds. I mean, honestly! - you'd think they were both born yesterday! But they genuinely believed this baloney, and they didn't even stand to win a big prize.

It's amazing what people will allow themselves to believe even in our cynical world; although it's perhaps less amazing that they're very, very reluctant to face up to having been mightily ripped off.

This will not be easy , I have dealt with this before, in several cases the court has stated that "It is so & so's money and they can do what they want with it". The court wanted more, an evaluation of the persons mental & physical health. sometimes 2 evaluations.

My mother was a Publishers Clearing House fan, I was able to stop her for awhile, but she went right back to it...she was going to win BIG...of coarse it never happened. She basically had all her marbles in one bag, so we children were at a standstill.

She recently had a stroke and is in AL, her mail is coming to my brother, so now it finally has ended.

Young and old alike can get scammed, some people are just easily fooled.

My mother, who is 80 and still works a seasonal job and pretty much has all her marbles, has started falling for every single commercial and mail solicitation regarding "helping disabled veterans."

Shockingly (not really) she has become INUNDATED with mail from various "veteran's charities" once she sent a donation to one and is now on the "sucker list." My father is 86 and has his marbles too. He has been unable to stop her nonsense with logic and reasoning, telling her that just because they claim to be legit, doesn't mean they really ARE!

Meanwhile, he gets himself into some sort of jam every couple of months. I've had to stop numerous ridiculous magazine subscriptions that HE has signed up for. One of the book stores had this thing going for a while where they would heavily pressure you to sign up for a "free subscription." They'd get your CC info and depend on you to forget about it when the one year cancellation date rolled around. He has done this several times. He has also fallen for the computer pop-up warning "Your computer has a virus. Call this number and we will step you through the removal."

Why are the elderly so distrustful of their own family, yet will readily give out personal information and money to strangers? It makes no sense. My sister's MIL willing gave her SS and checking acct. numbers to a stranger who called and claimed to be from the bank! This was a woman who otherwise was mentally with it. Thankfully she had a sitter staying with her who immediately called my sister and let her know.

I don’t know about guardianship, but in the mean time can you do something to thwart however they are communicating? Take the battery out of his cell phone or get his number changed? Unplug the computer? Hide his credit card? Call the Jamaican Jerk and tell him you’ve turned him in to the FBI and attorney general?

Jjwhl,

I doubt you’re going to get a judge to declare him incompetent at this point. You could spent lots of money on legal fees for nothing.

I went through similar stuff with my elderly parents who were still “With It” but had no executive reasoning whatsoever. My folks even got the grandkids in jail scam and spent an exhausting day driving around withdrawing money from banks until I got wind of it and intervened.

I think the only thing you can do at this point is try and get control of dads finances. And believe me, it ain’t easy. I had to use all sorts of trickery, fibs etc and slowly was able to take over. My only successful argument with them was WHAT IF SOMETHING SHOULD HAPPEN TO YOU ALL? In this way they added me to their accounts and I slowly took over the bills and finances. They each though the other was doing it.

Good luck.

My MIL fell for many scams over the last 7 years...and we probably only know about some of them. We were able to intervene and stop a few of them but, after my FIL died, we discovered they were over $50,000. short from what they always bragged that they had in funds. Either MIL was lying about that money or she lost it to Jamaican scammers. The laws are totally unfair because it is almost impossible to get guardianship but, of your parent (s) fall for these scams and lose everything we as the children become financially responsible for them if we live in a Filial Responsibility state. How is this fair??? I am terrified that my husband will become responsible for his 92 year old mother when her funds are all gone (they also lived beyond their means). We have only been married 5 years, his Dad died 1 year ago and it was then we found out about their true financial situation. Honestly, not sure I will stick around if that happens. His mom is a narcissist and a pathological liar. I am really pulling for you and your petition for guardianship. The laws should be changed so that guardianship is easier to get when parents fall for scammers and are losing their money. PLEASE keep me posted if you do progress through the guardianship petition. You can PM me, also. The only thing that may save us from this future with his Mom is that my husband is being evaluated for cognitive impairment. His "big" 4 hour test is in April. Should he be diagnosed he would no longer be responsible for his Mom. It is a lose-lose for me and causing me extreme stress! Good luck to you. I know exactly what you are going through. They are so certain that they are going to win "the big prize."

I see you’re on his main bank account? He got his check yesterday and gave them most of it? Can you intercept the checks on line as soon as they’re deposited and move them to a different account or withdraw it before he can? If you are on his account you should be able to if you keep a close eye on the deposit.

My God! I pray this is resolved soon!
when I moved back in with my mom, I found science experiments in refrigerator, toilets and shower was not cleaned, floors and furniture extremely dusty and after taking of all that, I was wondering why in hell she kept pulling money out of her savings to feed her checking account. WELL! Since my sister and I are on her bank accounts, the bank authorized me to open her account online. Behold were MANY donations and I mean MANY! Some from religious organizations. I made 53 phone calls to get her off mailing lists, scolded a nun for ripping my mother out of $80 within two months! You see, I realized my mom wasn’t remembering who she was giving money away to. She would just write checks whenever they came into her possession. SO! I have been confiscating ALL her mail! Just gave her her bills, that’s it. However, I have to say, I have taken a few THOUSAND pieces of mail all looking for a donation since March. She messed up her checkbook so badly, I think she knew something wasn’t right. It took me 5-1/2 hours to rewrite a new register in pencil, using my laptop to make all of the adjustments to make her register current and found she had way more money than what was shown. So I had to tell her I was taking over her finances. I show her what bills I’m paying and show her her balance, but in her mind, she’s itching to take over. Not happening! Some were scaring her in thinking she was saving herself from losing Social Security money.
I took this further with her primary doctor and advised the Memory Program. It’ll be in January but I made this appointment in May! That’s the earliest she can be tested. This will not be pretty to say the least. I have a reinforcer coming with me because she won’t disagree to go if my sister-in-law who no one says no to. She’s been so forgetful and only having 10% of her hearing left, it’s a challenge. She refuses hearing aids!
I have four siblings in this region and three out of state.
But they have seen with their own eyes that I was NOT making this stuff up!
Its routine that she tells family that I don’t keep her informed but that’s how bad her memory has gotten.
Phew! Long winded here! My humblest apologies!
Jjwahl. Time to take over the finances.
Mine incident happened here when I wasn’t here. Some car warranty person got my mother to pay over $2000 for something she doesn’t even drive anymore! My sister-in-law was here the next morning and asked if I knew about this transaction. My mother called her to say she got a great deal on a warranty. RED ALERT! So my advice is to speak to family first, have a plan of action and stuck to it. Just saying.

Very few things in life upset me as much as these scammers taking advantage of the elderly!

I'm sure you've done all the internet searches on this, but do checkout the U.S. Embassy website in Jamaica:
https://jm.usembassy.gov/u-s-citizen-services/victims-of-crime/scams/

I'm not sure going after guardianship is the easiest or best approach. I don't believe a court is going to grant guardianship simply based on the fact your father is gullible and trusting of these scammers. You do, however, need to convince your father that this is, in fact, a scam!
Show him the embassy web page above, show him news articles (https://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/jamaican-lottery-scam-victim-waiting-full-restitution-66893264), but don't be argumentative over it. Be persistent and caring. Make sure he knows you are just trying to help, but also that this is a very real scam that many others have fallen prey to.

If you haven't already... REPORT IT! So many of these scams go on for years because nobody reports them.

Contact the following:
Federal Trade Commission at www.ftc.gov
Internet Crime Complaint Center at www.ic3.gov
U.S. Embassy in Kingston at KingstonACS@state.gov
Call a local news station, call your representative, call the police, etc.

Unfortunately, your father, in all likelihood, will not see any of the money he's already lost ever again. You need to convince him to stop. Maybe "accidentally" lose the checkbook for a month and take that time to convince him.

If he truly is addicted - I have my doubts, and I wonder if deep-down he knows he's been had, but simply can't admit it to himself or others - then what about playing the lottery legitimately here in the U.S.? Make it a father/son thing: Go down once a week and buy $5 worth of lottery tickets. Didn't win this week? Oh, well, we'll try again next week.

Just brainstorming here, but please do REPORT IT!

All the best!

I think that you need to take these facts to his doctor; check also with an Elder Law Attorney (or do you HAVE one already who suggested representing you in court for the guardianship). I think this could go either way, because if your father passed the tests for dementia he has a right to do pretty much anything he wants to with his money. He can bury it, flush it or give it away and seems he chose the latter. What an awful thing, and I hope folks on the forum all know how very vulnerable our elders are.

You won’t be declared his guardian unless he’s deemed mentally incompetent. Unfortunately he is free to throw his money in every direction as along as he is mentally competent. If this is the only issue that come up, there’a not a chance will you win guardianship of him.

I don't know if this might help - Barclays ran a TV advertising campaign about online security which was pretty good: bite size films about the many, creative ways that scammers and fraudsters part us from our money.

For something with more local flavour for your father, try googling "digital security ad campaigns" and see if there isn't one that might get through to him. It's nice that all the power of advertising is on the side of the angels for once!

I hope you can get guardianship. But if he is deemed competent there is absolutely NOTHING you can do. He probably does have a gambling addiction if he is of sound mind. My mother is 95 years old and pissed away ALL of her HUNDREDS of THOUSANDS of dollars at the casino over the years. My father tried stopping her when she first became addicted but even he couldn’t stop her. He died 22 years ago. An elder lawyer said you can’t seem someone incompetent just because they make bad choices. The only thing she has left is her house that she still lives in. But she has no money to fix it up or for repairs. Not my problem.

Try to find out if his carrier has the new spam scam blocking ability, Verizon just implemented this and it stops these calls from coming through.

I would also change the numbers in his phone and have the new number one that says it has been disconnected, make sure that the number looks very similar to the original.

I would also contact the credit agencies and put a fraud alert on all 3, this way they can not open new accounts in his name. His identity has been stolen by them at this point.

As others have said show him videos that tell his story to him.

Best of luck, the exploitation of seniors and vulnerable people is on the rise and it takes some creative solutions to protect our stubborn, know it all elders.

My mom just got hit with a solar installation that she thinks will be cheaper than the 100.00 a month power bill she was paying. No convincing her that the 109.00 monthly lease fee is already more than she pays and she will still have a power bill. Thank God we showed up when we did or she would have had a giant hole in her house that they just left. What?!? And she was okay with this.

JJwahl, it's always sad and upsetting to read that someone has become victim to yet another scam.   It's not new, and probably will never be eliminated, but know that you're not alone, nor is your father alone.  It doesn't happen only to older people.

I don't recall the site now but I read sometime ago that as people age they tend to become less active and interactive, but still have the desire to share with those who are less fortunate.   I think this need is an important driver behind the vulnerability of people who do fall for these scams:  they truly believe they're helping someone.  And the scammers know and prey on this.

So perhaps you could focus on this and find a local charity, or activity, that would reward your father in feeling better about giving, of his time.   Is he still mobile enough to, say help pack groceries for a food pantry?   Visit animals and pet them, or read to them (yes, there is a program for people to read to therapy dogs)?  

Or go to Senior Centers and interact with others, perhaps even just for meals?   Could he help with projects - sorting donations for charity sales?   Something that made him feel he's reaching out and helping others would be the goal.


What I tried to do was focus on only those charities I knew were good, had a "donation" time at which we sat down together and wrote checks to charities I had vetted, then went out for a meal afterward.  I wanted to create feeling good with specific charities, and reinforcing that with time spent together, i.e., bonding after donating, to RECOGNIZED charities.   Whether or not it would work for others....I don't know.

Not to diminish anyone else's suggestions, but personally I think you'd get better advice and action from law enforcement than from an elder law attorney, who really has no law enforcement authority whatsoever.

Search your state to see if you can find out if there are task forces addressing scams, at the Sheriff's, local police and State Police levels.   I did learn that there was a SP task force in my state (several years ago), and contacted them.  BlueFinSpirit has good suggestions on others to contact, specifically an Internet task force.  

I don't know if it's possible, but the police could advise whether or not injunctive relief, such as a PPO (Personal Protection Order) could be issued, putting a stop to any further contact,  but also creating another level of criminal liability for breach.    If this can be applied to Internet contact, it could block the spammer, IF the wording included something "any and all aliases" the spammer is using.  

That would I think involve the spammers ISP(s), although he/she/it could always switch, but a broadly worded PPO could address that.  

I'm wondering also if you can contact your father's ISP and ask them to participate, by blind copying you on any of your father's communications outside of family or legitimate ones.     If you had law enforcement support for this, the ISP would have to comply.


Have you scoured the terms of the DPOA to determine what activates it, specifically?   There might be a clause that allows you to participate, if not take over, finances.   

You wrote that you're "on his main bank account."   To what extent?  How exactly is the account titled?  If you're joint owners with rights of survivorship", I'm sure that you can act on the account now.

If your dad is not in a Filial Responsibility state you will probably be spared the responsibility. I believe it follows where the parent lives, not the child. I have tried to get my State Rep to address and change this law and he refuses (he is a Republican) even though a bipartisan bill was introduced (and sits going nowhere) to release this archaic law. Basically he told me "the courts would decide." BS. If we have zero rights in preventing a situation where our parents squander all their money away, why should we be responsible to support them when all the funds are gone due to their bad choices?? I imagine that, someday, I may be in a situation where I fight this to the highest court possible. If guardianship were made easier in these situations I would be okay with it.

This story hurts my heart and upsets me greatly.
$30K!
Why oh WHY will he not listen to his own child or logic and reasoning?

Can you talk to someone at his bank and at the Trust company and anywhere else he has money and figure out how to get around this? Surely they see this frequently.

Also, take incremental steps in getting him to sign things that will give you more insight and power regarding his finances.

So, he ends up sending thousands of dollars to individuals in various scams until he is broke, then ends up in a nursing home. How will that affect the 5 yr. look back? He won't be eligible for Medicaid, will he?

So he has an old flip phone.. somehow manage to "break it" and oh boy,, now we have to get a new one, with a new number.. hopefully he does not have the scammers number memorized,, and with a new number perhaps they will no longer be able to contact him. There are still flip phones out there if he only wants that kind.. like the Jitterbug that AARP advertises for? I would be all over "knocking it to the floor by accident and then tripping/stepping on it" Good luck with this!

JJWahl, I'm confused.  You wrote:

"Its mainly his bank account, he just added me on the side just in case. I cant act without being guardian so ordered by the courts."

What does this mean?  There are standard phrases for ownership of an account, but I've never heard of "on the side".   Could you explain?   This is something new to me.

"I cant act without being guardian so ordered by the courts".   So, you HAVE tried through court action?     What kind of action, and what kind of court order was entered?   I'm curious; I'm not familiar with this action unless it was a denial of an attempt to get an order allowing you access or a rejection of some kind of petition you might have filed.  

Was this at a Circuit Court level?  

jjwahl, does your father live by himself? Can he take care of himself? He s going to be upset with you if you try to deem him incompetent and it turns out he is competent.

jjwahl, worriedincali was right. You can’t get guardianship just because he is gullible to scammers.,He can throw all his money out the window if he wants. If he doesn’t speak to you again then let it go and move on. You already said that the doctors have tested him and not one of them said he is incompetent. Just let it go.

jjwahl, your father is right. It’s HIS money and none of YOUR business if he is competent. I pray that all of the doctors find him incompetent so you can get guardianship. But if he is deemed competent and you can’t get guardianship you are banging your head against the wall. Walk away if he is deemed competent. Make peace with the fact he is going to throw all of his money out the window. That is the cold hard truth. I got slapped with the cold hard truth with my mother. I am only speaking from experience. I am done banging my head against the wall. I am my mothers daughter NOT her caregiver.

Jjwahl, you say a doct is writing a letter of competency to fix an old will. You can’t have it both ways. He’s either competent or he isn’t.

Jjwahl, don’t enable him or bail him out and save your money for counseling for yourself. He is an addict. He will have to suffer the consequences of his actions. If he is deemed competent he has to fall down all by himself. He is an addict. My mother is a gambling addict, an alcoholic and a hoarder and very competent!!!! I got counseling for myself to let go of HER!!!

JJ it’s good that you’ve clarified a few things in your posts, but I haven’t seen any mention of any steps taken to inhibit communications. Ex, disabling the cell or house phone, losing the charger, changing the phone number, changing email address or his password. You may have to do these things creatively under the radar and with a good story.
A suggestion: When my mom was getting more confused using her computer email and getting tons of junk mail, I switched her to PawPaw Mail which is a service for elders (or anyone actually) that is very simple for them. The system required an administrator (me) with my own password. I set up all her current contacts and if anyone not on the contact list tried to email her, it would come to me instead, and I could approve it or not. She could still do all her other games etc, nothing looked different on the computer. This was solely for email and changed her addy from a TimeWarner address to a pawpaw mail one. This was a few years ago, there may be other providers like that now as well. Again you may have to get creative in execution.

I need to raise an issue that I found well beyond surprising the first time I read it.  It's that a doctor is "writing a letter of competency to fix an old will".  Perhaps it's the wording, but doctors can NOT fix wills.    Only the individual who created the Will can change it.   

And the people who should do it are qualified attorneys.   Doctors may have some knowledge, but estate planning is NOT their profession.    

If the specific wording of this action is at fault, I apologize, but the concept of a  doctor writing a letter to "fix" a will raises serious credibility issues.

this is a freaking nightmare!

jjwahl, your father is a gambling addict just like my mother. You can’t make them stop anymore than you can make a drug addict stop taking drugs or an alcoholic stop drinking alcohol. My Mother depleted ALL of her hundreds of thousands of dollars my Father made being ca VP at a company. Nothing has stopped her. Depleting her savings hasn’t stopped her. Not driving anymore hasn’t stopped her. She takes call a bus to a grocery store that has a scratch off machine to blow her social security and monthly pension on. You can’t stop him. He is an addict. Let him hit is own rock bottom. If you help him you are enabling him. Don’t do it. When my mother couldn’t drive anymore at age 92 she asked her doctor to write a script for a motorized scooter. I called the doctor and told her not to do it because she wanted to use it from her house and drive it into the village to the gas station to play the scratch off tickets!!!!!!! I kid you NOT!!!!!!!! The doctor listened to me and wouldn’t let her have a motorized scooter.