I feel sorry for my mom -- she's 90 -- but I'm having a hard time talking with her about anything other than really superficial things. I've tried to talk with her about serious issues (end of life choices: "you decide, I don't care") or upcoming situations (my brother, who's her main "handyman/helper" plans on moving away in the next 6 months: "what happens, happens"). My family and I live about 6 hours away.
My father died a few years ago and my mother had decided on an independent/assisted living place but doesn't have enough money for it without selling her home. Obviously now is not a good time to be moving into a place like that and she seems to be okay staying in her home, despite having mobility issues.
She's living alone with an occasional (no more than monthly) visit by a housecleaner and gardener. My brother lives nearby and helps her with odds and ends/taking out the trash, etc., as needed -- about once a week, but as I said he is actively planning to sell his home and move out of state within the year.
She drives, occasionally, to the doctor, pharmacy, but has stopped going to the store. My sister-in-law largely shops for now or Mom pays the housecleaner to buy things. She's mentally alert but her mobility issues have gotten worse over the past couple of years to the point that Mom spends most of her time sitting. When I last saw her she seemed very unsteady on her feet with a cane (uses a walker at night to get to the bathroom) so it feels to me like she's an accident waiting to happen.
I feel sorry for her being by herself, especially since a couple of friends died recently. But trying to talk with her about feelings related to the deaths (I don't want to talk about them -- they're personal) or about making informed decisions about things (her response is along the lines of "que sera, sera (what will be, will be" ), we get nowhere. I did get angry early on when she said things like the latter, but lately I ignore the statements, even though they feel like they are an attempt to irritate me on purpose. I find I can't talk with her as often because either I DO start to get irritated if I try to broach serious things and she gives me a flip response, or it devolves into talk about the weather, and I can only do that for a short time!
I'm not sure there's a question here -- maybe just a sharing of frustrations and fears. I do know I don't call her as often as I think I'd like to be called if I were in her position, but I feel like I have to balance my own feelings of guilt and frustration. Sometimes I wonder if she even cares to talk with me -- she never call me and rarely asks me about my life.
Thanks for listening.
My parents never made any funeral plans, and their house is full of 50 years' worth of stuff. My dad decided he needed to start clearing out the house, and was getting rid of one item at a time. At that pace, the house would have been cleared out in 2064. I finally told him not to worry about it, and I'd handle things when the time came. It took a huge load off his mind, and as it happened, he was diagnosed with terminal cancer a year later, and I was able to just take over the decisions. The only one he made was vetoing one particular cemetery because his father -- a horrible person who abandoned his family -- is buried there.
I think your mom is telling you in not so many words that she'd like someone else to take over the decision-making. She may like to have some input, but you're asking her to make huge life-changing decisions at her age, and some people just can't do it.
Sometimes you can say, "Mom, we're going to need to sell the house and move you to XYZ Assisted Living." She may then have an opinion -- "I want to go to ABC Assisted Living instead because my friend lives there." Don't bring up these heavy topics with such wide open options, and you may have better luck with her.
Sure do wish you luck. If you come to any solution you think would work, that's great. She's in denial about the possiblity of death as well. Don't pursue if she doesn't wish to. If hospitalized a Social Worker will help you attempt to get answers. If not, the next of kind will make decisions; she is 90, and you and your bro can do that. If she doesn't wish to speak of what you ALL know is on the horizon she doesn't need to do so. More important is what to do while LIVING to insure her safety. Would just tell her "You needn't discuss you wishes regarding possibilities of end of life; but it isn't really an option now to deny needs you have while you are still LIVING."
My Mom is quite opinionated and likes to be in control, which is interesting given my dad was the one always in charge (at least on the surface). The moment my dad died my mom took over everything from arranging to get the yard cleaned up -- she had complained my dad didn't care how it looked -- to cleaning out most of the stuff in the house. She tried to direct my husband to do this and do that, but it didn't go over well. Haha! So when you ask about my brother, well, he just lets her do what she wants and if she tells him to do something he doesn't want to do he says no, call someone else. I've talked to him about the things I mentioned above and he just shakes his head and says she's not going to change, she's going to do what she wants. But on the other hand I suggested he talk with Mom about selling her place before he sells his so she can get settled in the particular assisted living place she wanted before he moved, and he thought that was a good idea. Unfortunately Covid has put that on a hold -- she won't consider moving while it's raging. He's in agreement that a fall would be problematic but it doesn't seem to weigh on his mind like it does mine.
I think sometimes, like you suggest, that Mom doesn't want to make the big decisions but then it feels like she wants to make them all herself. She did in fact tell me once a few months ago, in a heated discussion, that as long as she was capable she was making all the decisions. Sorry, I'm all over the map on this! Like I said, I think with some of this she preys on my feelings of empathy and says things on purpose to try to provoke me. I vacillate between feeling sorry for her and her situation and wanting to run far, far away! Lately I've been doing my utmost to ignore her provocations.
All the best
Colleen
If you don't move your mother into Assisted Living NOW, she is going to fall b/c she is already unsteady on her feet and probably way too stubborn to use a walker or even a cane. Right? So she falls, breaks a hip, a femur, something.........goes to the hospital and then to rehab, where they refuse to release her back to independent living.
That's when the poop hits the fan. B/c then, YOU have to scramble like a madwoman to sell her home to finance her stay in Assisted Living, which should have happened BEFORE the crisis took place. But, with stubborn old parents, the crisis has to happen FIRST. It did with my parents. That's how I can tell you this scenario, it happened to ME.
Your mother needs a decision made FOR her, like my mother does. Otherwise, they beat around the bush and deny everything, or they don't want to talk about reality, and leave everything for another day. Meaning it becomes OUR PROBLEM.
Assisted Living places ARE accepting new residents now. Especially considering the vaccine is coming out very soon and will be given out to everyone, opening the entire industry back up. NOW is the time to find her a place, gather brochures, etc. Get her house on the market, whatever is required. Otherwise, you will both likely face the scenario I mentioned above, like many, many of us here on Aging Care have faced ourselves. It's not fun.
So, unless you're like me and want to run away to Europe somewhere w/o leaving a forwarding address, think about how to formulate Plan A, Plan B and Plan C. Because you're not going to move to Europe, and neither am I, so YOU will be left holding the bag here, as I am, since I have no siblings to even help me. I'm it. My dad died after I placed them both in AL in 2014, and my mother has been there ever since, fighting me tooth and nail, arguing every single word I say to her. She's in Memory Care now with moderate dementia which only makes the arguing that much worse.
But I know she's safe. And she's not living in MY house, and that's what matters.
Wishing you good luck and Godspeed moving forward with all you have on your plate. It's a lot, I know. Sending you a hug and a prayer for peace. Oh, and a prayer that your mother is SOMEWHAT reasonable throughout. A long shot, I know.
Actually the European plan was going to be Plan A...but, to my husband's lament, I can't pull the trigger (plus they don't want us right now). Haha!
Good point about the AL places wanting to get people signed up right now before the vaccine is opening things back up totally. Hadn't thought of that. (Of course as an aside, Mom says she won't get the vaccine as she "doesn't care what happens" to her!).
Reading all the really good comments here I'm really seeing that I'm not over-reacting in terms of being nervous about Mom being on her own. She says she always has her phone near her so she's fine. I don't think that's good enough. My brother is out of town at the moment, but as soon as he gets back I'm going to talk with him about us moving forward to get Mom's house on the market. In the meantime I'll call the AL she's been talking with and get the low-down on that situation.
I'm glad I found this forum -- it's helpful to talk with people who've been through this!!
I agree, you and brother need to get Mom settled somewhere before he moves out of state. And it should be an Assisted living she is passed independent living. She can no longer live on her own. With an AL you know she is getting 3 meals a day. Some provide transportation to Drs. and shopping. She will have other people to socialize with, activities and entertainment. You can mail her anything she needs thats not provided.
Yes, both u and brother need to tell her there now are no options. She will need to move to an AL. She will not be able to be on her own without the support brother and wife gave her. Hopefully brother will stay long enough for Moms house to sell (at Market Value if ever the need for Medicaid) and get her settled in an AL.
This probably won't be easy. Maybe an impartial person can talk to her. Maybe she would listen to ur SIL. Maybe brother can take her around to some ALs. Have lunch there.
Good luck and come back and tell us how it all worked out.
My Mom is quite opinionated and likes to be in control, which is interesting given my dad was the one always in charge (at least on the surface). The moment my dad died my mom took over everything from arranging to get the yard cleaned up -- she had complained my dad didn't care how it looked -- to cleaning out most of the stuff in the house. She tried to direct my husband to do this and do that, but it didn't go over well. Haha! So when you ask about my brother, well, he just lets her do what she wants and if she tells him to do something he doesn't want to do he says no, call someone else. I've talked to him about the things I mentioned above and he just shakes his head and says she's not going to change, she's going to do what she wants. But on the other hand I suggested he talk with Mom about selling her place before he sells his so she can get settled in the particular assisted living place she wanted before he moved, and he thought that was a good idea. Unfortunately Covid has put that on a hold -- she won't consider moving while it's raging. He's in agreement that a fall would be problematic but it doesn't seem to weigh on his mind like it does mine.
I think sometimes, like you suggest, that Mom doesn't want to make the big decisions but then it feels like she wants to make them all herself. She did in fact tell me once a few months ago, in a heated discussion, that as long as she was capable she was making all the decisions. Sorry, I'm all over the map on this! Like I said, I think with some of this she preys on my feelings of empathy and says things on purpose to try to provoke me. I vacillate between feeling sorry for her and her situation and wanting to run far, far away! Lately I've been doing my utmost to ignore her provocations.
My Mom is quite opinionated and likes to be in control, which is interesting given my dad was the one always in charge (at least on the surface). The moment my dad died my mom took over everything from arranging to get the yard cleaned up -- she had complained my dad didn't care how it looked -- to cleaning out most of the stuff in the house. She tried to direct my husband to do this and do that, but it didn't go over well. Haha! So when you ask about my brother, well, he just lets her do what she wants and if she tells him to do something he doesn't want to do he says no, call someone else. I've talked to him about the things I mentioned above and he just shakes his head and says she's not going to change, she's going to do what she wants. But on the other hand I suggested he talk with Mom about selling her place before he sells his so she can get settled in the particular assisted living place she wanted before he moved, and he thought that was a good idea. Unfortunately Covid has put that on a hold -- she won't consider moving while it's raging. He's in agreement that a fall would be problematic but it doesn't seem to weigh on his mind like it does mine.
I think sometimes, like you suggest, that Mom doesn't want to make the big decisions but then it feels like she wants to make them all herself. She did in fact tell me once a few months ago, in a heated discussion, that as long as she was capable she was making all the decisions. Sorry, I'm all over the map on this! Like I said, I think with some of this she preys on my feelings of empathy and says things on purpose to try to provoke me. I vacillate between feeling sorry for her and her situation and wanting to run far, far away! Lately I've been doing my utmost to ignore her provocations.
If she is mentally capable of making decisions then I assume we can't "make" her she move -- just do our best to persuade her. I was thinking one of her main sticking points was money, but my husband and I sat down and figured out a rough estimate of what she could sell her house for and that, along with her savings should be just enough for a reasonable AL (and the one she's interested in) for a number of years in her town. Of course if she needs more help sooner rather than later, that's another issue. How does that work if they run out of money down the line -- do they kick them out? don't pay as much attention to them??
I wish I weren't such a worrywart about these things!
If she is mentally capable of making decisions then I assume we can't "make" her she move -- just do our best to persuade her. I was thinking one of her main sticking points was money, but my husband and I sat down and figured out a rough estimate of what she could sell her house for and that, along with her savings should be just enough for a reasonable AL (and the one she's interested in) for a number of years in her town. Of course if she needs more help sooner rather than later, that's another issue. How does that work if they run out of money down the line -- do they kick them out? don't pay as much attention to them??
I wish I weren't such a worrywart about these things!
It looks like your best bet is to get your mom into the facility that she has agreed to in the past ASAP. If you get push back get her doctor involved so he can tell her she can no longer live alone. It's great that she can afford a few years. Once the money is spent she can get Medicaid to take over. That will be a process and others who have been through it will likely chime in. Also who has POA?
Good luck. Oh, one more thing, when selling the house use a realtor and get FMV. That might matter down the road if/when she needs Medicaid.
Still, a person of your mom’s age isn’t going to be independent forever.
You said it you, she is an accident waiting to happen. It’s past time for her to be a facility.
Both of you deserve peace of mind. There are many nice assisted living facilities and if more care is needed you can look into a suitable nursing home.
Wishing you and your mom all the best as you prepare for her future.
When you call her, which should be a Well Check call every day, just have a nice 5 min chat ask her how she feels, if she needs anything from the grocery store, has she watched a good show lately and tell her something about yourself and what you might be doing that day.
Be sure to keep it casual.
You should be happy that your mom doesn't care regarding her funeral and let you handle it whichever way you want. Cremation is what have chosen fir my Dad because it hurts less when you don't have to see them in a casket. The Loved One dies, you call and the body is picked up and within a month, you'll receive the ashes to keep, bury or cast over land or water, whatever you want.
As far as your mom saying que sada
A majority of retirees — 53% — have a last will and testament. But most lack six other crucial legal documents.
32% have a power of attorney or medical proxy, which allows designated people to make medical decisions on the retiree’s behalf.
30% have an advance directive or living will, which communicates their end-of-life medical preferences to health care providers.
28% have designated a power of attorney to make financial decisions on their behalf.
19% have written funeral and burial arrangements.
18% have filled out a Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act (HIPAA) waiver, which allows designated people to speak to health care and insurance providers on the retiree’s behalf.
11% have a trust.
The study highlights a gap that retirees need to fill if they want to be properly prepared for the end of their lives.
One to add is a trusted contact. This is not a person who can make legal or medical decisions on your behalf, but someone nearby in your community that can be contacted if your advisers cannot make contact with you.
And a note that Trusts are not used in Canada the way they appear to be in the USA.
It's a good thing to take everything with a grain of salt.
It's fine that she doesn't want to talk about her friends dying and it's great that she doesn't care about her end of life remains. She knows,, When you're gone your gone and you won't know anything anyway as your dead.
Thus que said whatever will be will be attitude which I think is Awesome.
You on the other hand seem to want to talk about dreary things like her friends dying, what she wants done when she dies, what's she going to do when your brother as her handi man moves. Ect
You are the one that wants to talk about it, she doesn't so talk to your brother about it.
For now, let her live her life in her own home as long as she can as she'll be just as safe, probably safer in her own home and
I know she'll be much happier in her own home.
Senior places may look nice and the people tell you what you want to hear but they are not a good place.
Seniors are bored, sad, feel unloved, scared , depressed and usually lose their will to live.
Senforcement homes are always understaffed.
The only Senio Places that are OK is if you have your mental faculties and if you live in an apartment where you are able to do what you want.
If your mom is capable of living in an Senior Apartment then she's capable of living in her own home, if thst's what she wants to do.
She can fall just as easily at a Senior Apartment as her home.
So, your brother won't be moving for another 6 months so you'll have plenty of time to think .
Onot thing right now you should adk your mom is if she would prefer to live in her own home or a Senior Apartment, then proceed accordingly.
You should have your brother install cameras in mom's home as a safety measure and put handrails by the toilet and tub/shower.
I chose Nest Cameras for my Dad's house as they are easy enough to install and work great and it's a relief to me that I can check in on him anytime 24 7 to make sure how he is doing.
When your brother leaves, you'll only need to hire someone to do things that are an emergency.
Your mom can use smaller trash bags and put them out fir trash by using her Walker as that's what my Dad did.
Your mom can have her groceries delivered.
I use Walmart fir my Dad and it only cost $99 a year and I can order as many times a week as I want as long as my Oder is at least $35 and it's charged to a credit card and you never get in contact with the delivery person as they just leave it on your front porch.
My Dad used his walker that has a seat on it to carry things around.
He would fix himself an easy microwaveable meal and put the plate on his seat of his walker and steadily walk away to the kitchen table.
You can always have a Caregiver drop by a couple hours once a day or once a week.
When she's too old to drive, she can take an umber.
She
You on the other hand
Yes, it took awhile for her to get used to the new place but she adapted and was comfortable.
Sadly she developed dementia and we moved her into another great place with Memory Care. Their policy is to keep MC resident active and engaged. You just have to do your research, ask questions, etc.
And then you have informed her, her son is moving far away, so she's got to hurry and sell her house and move. Its like shoving her face in the fact she is old and needs to be dealt with like she's a problem. We need to handle this now, Running out of time. No one is going to be around you any more. Your old. Gotta get this done. And we are living our lives Moving on.
No wonder she doesn't care. What can she say? I can't wait to be shoved off to the death house?
Cant your brother wait a bit before he leaves? What is his hurry? Is he really moving as to not get stuck taking mom in because she is close to that time where she will need more help? I find the timing suspicious and convenient. Especially with covid and the job market. You said yourself- I think if he moves, he won't get stuck taking her in after a fall.
Perhaps you can say mom- I want to move you closer to me. That way I can visit and you are cared for. At least she won't be 6hrs away from the nearest relative. Make it positive. At least she's not being told yet again son is moving away. He doesn't care, you'll be all alone. Time to dump you in the care facility. No one around to help you. That sounds wonderful doesnt it? Sounds like no one cares. No wonder she is depressed. I would say anyone would be. What can she answer back that is positive? Nothing. And she is saying it to irritate you?? Your not the problem to be dealt with. She is.
What sounds better. Mom I'm moving you closer to me so I know your ok, and I can visit. Or we have to sell your house as fast as possible and shove you in a home. Brother is moving away to live his life. No more visits from him. He's done with you.
Mom is depressed. Has anyone taken her to a doctor? Helped her depression in any way? With depression you dont want to eat, or get out of bed. Nothing holds your interest. Your in a black hole you cant climb out of. You dont even want to get dressed. And you want her to hurry up and make major life decisions immediately. Hmmm. And your irritated.
See it from her point of view?
Id get her to the doctor.
And you're right, it's never easy caring for someone else!
Thank you.
Just to clarify a couple of things:
My mother has said ever since I can remember that she WANTED to move into an assisted living place as opposed to living with my brother or myself. Both my grandmothers lived with my parents at the end of their lives so I think Mom knows how difficult it can be. I remember the stress, too. I am thankful that she feels strongly about this as it's best for all of us.
Second, my brother has been saying for years that he would move to be closer to his child and grandkids when his wife retired, and that's finally happened this year. I don't feel he's abandoning my mother, quite the contrary, he's been pretty responsive to her, particularly since my father died a couple of years ago. He's answered her calls for help to fix all kinds of things around the house (it's 55 years old and will need more and more maintenance) and helped her find a gardener she likes after going through others that she complained about. Honestly, I think my brother's a saint for what he's done, particularly since my dad died. SIL is currently doing all the grocery shopping so both of them have been quite helpful to her and I thank them every chance I get.
I've respected her wishes not to talk about her feelings, which she has never freely expressed over the years (my brother and I agree on this). I only commented to her that it must be tough to lose your long time friends and she said I don't want to talk about it; we haven't. Personally I don't think it's healthy not to talk about these things to some extent, but that's me. She sees her doctor regularly and he says she is pretty healthy, except for severe arthritis that's affected her walking. She has pain, but brushes it aside. Still, she's been getting injections for it -- helps somewhat -- but otherwise will only take OTC medication.
I think the biggest issue for me is one of safety. As I've mentioned, because of the mobility issues, I worry that she's an accident waiting to happen. Two issues come to mind: if something happens, we want to be sure she gets the care she needs as soon as possible. She seems to think that having her phone with her is sufficient, but I'm not so sure...what if she's incapable of making a call or the phone falls out of reach? And if she ends up in the hospital, I understand she may not have a say in where she goes after that and, to me at least, all this is somewhat preventable by making a pro-active decision to move before something happens.
We've talked about alternatives so she could stay at home -- a "Life Alert" service, a roommate, hiring someone to come to the house, but these she's refused the first two and doesn't think she needs the latter (other than a housekeeper that comes once per month). I think she's just hoping to delay it all as long as possible, but then we get into the circular thinking of the above.
I realize Independent/Assisted Living places are not necessarily the wonderful places they advertise. On the other hand, she would at least be physically checked on more regularly than now, would not be impeded from doing what she does (watch TV, make a few meals, go to the doctor/pharmacy). She doesn't go outside at all now if she doesn't have to. She can have her cat with her. And maybe when the danger of COVID-19 eventually lifts she can find a bridge game again!
I don't think it's unkind to be prodding her to move now while she's not absolutely needing it. I've read your stories of your experiences and heard plenty of others. I don't have a problem with "what will be will be" except to the extent that if it leads to a miserable problem(s) that could have been avoided.
Alas. Change is neither accepted nor sought. Denial? Too hard? Lack of planning & judgement? Probably 3 yesses.
So as the Social Worker told me;
1. Warn of the pitfalls/dangers
2. Let her decide.
3. Let the consequences be her own.
Yet it is so sad... As you said "if it leads to a miserable problem(s) that could have been avoided".
I am definately in the group of folk *awaiting a crises* to force change.
Welcome to the club 😔
Side note: Since she has mobility issues, does she have helpers round the clock to help with meals, toileting, etc.? If not, it might be time to make arrangements for that type of help.
Next comes a discussion with brother about options you both think will work – or options one of you objects to. If possible, you need to avoid later disagreements with brother when you can’t talk face to face and he has lots of issues of his own to cope with. If you can, start the conversation yourself with what you think are reasonable ways to go. Allow time for thought and follow-up.
Then give mother the two best options, and ask what she would prefer. If she won’t choose, ask if she has other suggestions, otherwise you’ll talk again in a week’s time and she can choose then.
When you have one (or even two) options on the table, make a list of what can be done in advance. If an option involves downsizing, mother can choose what to give away to whom, what would fit into a smaller space, and what she doesn’t care much about (so it can be sold). These are ‘if’ decisions, she doesn’t have to clear everything out now. You might like to make a record with her of the history of special ‘keepers’ or ‘gifts’.
If downsizing will involve selling a house, start checking out real estate agents – their suggestions (do it up, or sell as is), when to sell (Covid, seasonal), their reputations (ask around), their commission rates - ‘free advertising’ but a higher commission rate can be a very bad bargain), auction or listing (or do they already have a list of people looking if it’s a highly desirable area), likely sale price (and be suspicious of the highest estimate, designed to suck you in).
All these things have advantages – they can save a lot of time in an eventual emergency, they start all of you actually looking at the reality of what is going to happen, they break the huge decisions into small bits that are easier to approach, and your mother might find it all quite interesting so long as she doesn't have to take the responsibility.
Start small, allow time, and find interesting ways to approach things. Good luck!
We had an elderly sister at church that believed the same thing. Making it terribly sad for her husband when he found her body. She had fallen, outside, on a 100°+ day and could not reach the phone as it was under her injured body. From all indications she would not have died lying in the hot sun for hours if she had a fall alert device that contacts help when a fall is detected.
I hope that you can convince your mom that it is better to be a bit obsessive about safety then to be very sorry.
You and your family are doing a wonderfully job. Well done!
If her finances don't allow to pay for care like this, you need to be talking to your brother. I mean, if she talks with him more often - and he's been around more - maybe he's the one to chat with mom about changes that need to happen. As in someone needs to come in each day (and that would increase in hrs as she needs it) or the house needs to go on the market now while he's still in town so she can afford to move to assisted living.
Once brother is gone, this situation (even if she maintains her abilities awhile) is an accident waiting to happen.
Could it be that not only is she depressed but also scared of a future without brother being near to help out? Good luck, it's not easy.
Look, OP has not said she is inclined to move out there or take Mom into her own home. This is about Mom being passive-aggressive.
It sounds like many of you can relate to this.